The biggest problem is how the game has remained the same for years :(. By beating all heists on DSOD a few times means you've seen everything and it kinda sucks. If there were constant significant balance patches, things would be more interesting.
I am kinda new to DSOD and did Alesso with a friend. He went into custody a couple times and I had to holdout near the end for around 20 minutes overall. The heist took us 52 minutes.
It's really impressive and satisfying to see someone push their way through DSOD heists like it's just a chore, not because of it's difficulty but along with it's bullshit that it spreads because of overkills doing with the code. As well the labrats jump trick made me shocked, I must of been stuck on that heist for hours because of how many times I went down on the zipline. Wonderful work.
I do really wonder if you did every heist in 1 attempt? I haven't seen a mention of failed attempts anywhere, maybe I just didn't see said part. To me it feels like you just picked the finished run for the 17 hours of playtime and ignored any other attempt, sure that works for in-game time to win this challenge but if you have lets say 10 hours worth of restarting additionally, this challenge would be obviously failed. For reference my all heists solo videos have around 29 hours of gameplay but another at least 8 hours or so of just failing. But hey, maybe it's just me and you actually did all heists within 1 go, I can respect the effort.
ask joe, i haven't played this game in months and these recordings are even older, would be pretty crazy for me to remember how every heist went. if you had watched the video, however, you would've seen i afk'd through a lot of heists and even let the cops kill me often because of how boring it was, not to mention me forgetting to change one medic bag into something more useful. on gs d2 i failed the gamble with cage and this is the same run where i finished the heist which rather hints that this wasn't exactly difficult. try playing an akimbo cr hacker solo build with bot boosts and full ai crew, then tell me how "hard" it is (read: even if i somehow failed a heist or two, there's no way in the world i had over 5h worth of fails). if you feel the video is cheated, then the best you can do is leaving a dislike and moving on
I never do loud DS (really need to bite that bullet someday) so your videos on it are always an interesting watch - it's like a completely different game, and not just because of the HUD differences, mine is just Poco with a couple of adjustments. Also, what's the song that starts at roughly 51:20?
You should start from a mission with lots of cover, single enemy spawning point, and just holdout in general like undercover, it gets you started with taking cover
Even if i'm 1 year late that is not how DSOD looks like, it's like playing on very hard because on DSOD you are swarmed by enemies and don't have space to breath so it's safe to assume this run was done with probably a couple of mods and the lack of snipers in the outside areas of some heists is truly weird because once you leave it's a laser party
Cool video! Watching you guys go through all heists on the hardest difficulty made it look pretty easy!! May i ask what build you were using with the micro uzi and the akimbo CRs?
I have been playing since beta (only ~1200 hours, inf 55) and still have 20 maps left to complete in DSOD. I'm just curious, do you have a link for the builds you used for this video? You make this game look way too easy :)
I haven't touched the game in months, so I don't remember exactly, but I ran multiple versions of the same build (akimbo cr and micro uzi): pd2builder.netlify.app/?s=1Q381000f0100010iF00211m120100&p=k&a=0&t=d&d=5 You can change a few skills if you'd like, but try to keep the detection risk either at 23 or 26
@@ace6806 hey thanks for the reply!! I typically play only armourer or anarchist on DW, so switching to stoic / hacker / leech will take some time to adjust to, can't quite seem to get a good feel for when to use the abilities. I especially find that DS w/bots or players I need to be constantly killing just to survive the spot I'm camping at, a pretty drastic step up in difficulty but I'll get the DSOD mask one day soon (great DSOD video guide as well ;) )
@@dfgchjhkbnl From what I know, hacker was buffed recently and its stun is very consistent now, so you should give it a go. The moment you memorize enemy spawns on the heists, you should be unkillable with it now.
The assault indicator, lmao. I've been using a similar build, and I can't believe how broken Hacker is, especially with the akimbo cr. Never really used it outside of stealth, but damn this is crazy. It plays a lot simpler than Leech for me, as well. Probably going to go for all the heists now.
I consider hacker to be in a tier of its own, above every deck in the game. As you can see by the comments I'm being called a cheater and all I did was AFK through most heists, so it's pretty funny
I checked the build you shared here. so the dodge is THAT good with only 1 joker and no sneaky bastard? I tried a similar build but I instantly die with feedback when I run outside idk why. Also could you make a video about the current meta builds or maybe share some if you have?
Which mod you use for that realistic blood? I tried install from one of your vídeos of showing your mods but i put on mods paste and didnt work,can you say the name of where did you install it? And the name of the mod
i know i know... kinda late, but what's the loadout and build? i really like the looks and power of those huge weapons... you know the ones you hold with both hands...
I have only 8 heists left for the DS OD mask and only problematic heist I had was the biker heist day 1 and it was completely due to the bad design I had no problem completing harder heists such as no mercy or henrys rock
Trying to get the DSOD mask solo, don't wanna drag other folks down in pubs or whatever, and I feel like I'm going nowhere fast. I've only beaten Counterfeit and Cook Off in about 5 days of attempts on various heists. Resi Dogs is horrible for me, but I know it'll only get worse from here. Any tips from anyone? Should I play with AI or without? I always feel like I get overrun with so many cops and I can't keep up.
This elevator "bug" is not common knowledge? When the AI (and maybe the player?) stands to close to side of where the door is, it won't close. Just shout at the AI, so they move. The moment they get away from the door side, the door closes.
BTW on alesso heist u said u dont know how vents work if u have writed "lobby" its gonna give ur bags to main area so u should throw bags into this vent when u do this loud other two are for stealth but u not stealth player so u dont need to know this ;)
@@ace6806 no problem i like help ppl ;) i like help so i say many tips to new ppl in payday 2 but its awesome when i can help someone who play this game better than me
Challenge: Can you finish the game on death sentence using "realistic" builds and weaponry? - All guns must have a realistic look to them (attachments are allowed as long as they ain't too crazy) - Skills are allowed as long as they're placed in way that makes believable and comparable to a real heister. - The Perk deck you use must be realistic as something that a real heist could use during an actual heist ( Carrying tougher armor (armorer), etc) - No ECMs - No Jokers And ofcourse, you're not allowed to use any armor expect the lightweight vest, the standard ballistic vest and the Heavy Ballistic vest (the one without the shoulders armors)
I have to say, that out of all saw users in this game, you are certainly one of them lol. Anyway, knew it was possible from the start, but it's nice to see it done. gj
Hmmmm, I don't know if the newest heists apply, but some of the ones not included in the legacy collection do, so I believe you need to finish every map
Nowadays that'd be pretty difficult, the last time I played payday was months ago. If I were to play the game again at some point, I will let you know.
kinda defeats the whole point of the challenge to have someone else play for you its not you that did the challenge, you had a friend help, although that wasn't stated in the rules it basically nulls the challenge
@@taxrabbbit746 Oh hm... actually no idea what causes it. You might have to download my mods and check one by one: th-cam.com/video/zavhUFn2YRY/w-d-xo.html&t
Build? i think this build is very strong. so i would have expected a run down of your build. But i dont see no run down or nothing? so what is the build used here, i am trying to get the mask too with a friend but no builds are good enough.
I completely installed your pack of modifications and I have a question which mod changes the death animation of units? it's just that they all sit down on their knees after death
Ah no i know what you thought but my question was another because when you bring the sample and start the test it blows in the machine every time after getting the first and the second Right
@@nocommentarygameplay3798 Analyzing a sample is a simple matter of RNG on whether it'll be correct or not. You can reuse the same "machine" thing and it'll still roll to give you either a correct or wrong one, good to keep in mind as to not run around and risk downing yourself.
I haven't watched this guy in a while, why did he go from what he sounded like before, to now being australian and renamed, tf happened? Still lit builds and challenges though
@@thepanzerofthelake732 You'd have to look through my build videos to find about them. I no longer have any of my builds because one of the updates broke my profiles and I don't remember much about the game to begin with
@@4cr1d after this video i tried hacker build again. And it doesn't work like on your video. Every second shot is with damage from enemies And this is in the house. On the outside - death. I turned on the ecm ,yeah, a few guys was stopped, but the others made few shots and i died. The dodge is not work almost at all ( i am not a noob, a know how to do detection - 3 and take Sneaky Bastard ). I dont know how u rush into the crowd of enemies, something unreal
@@boti. I will try my best. I don't know how much I will be able to upload in the future, but I'd like to upload some payday 3 stuff. This year is kinda hard and the next one is gonna be even harder :(
I do not believe this run, there is cheating modifiers, no cops targeted you, health damage taken was half of what is reality
xD
I do bot believe this comment, there is something called knowledge, no one asked welcome to reality tysm
acknowledging work ❌
cheating accusations ✅
Agree
literally never played with hacker did you?
Literally no idea on how you went this simple on loud heists, decent skills, good job!
Sad to hear you don't enjoy payday as much anymore, but it's also understandable. Anyone would get bored of a game after some time.
The biggest problem is how the game has remained the same for years :(. By beating all heists on DSOD a few times means you've seen everything and it kinda sucks. If there were constant significant balance patches, things would be more interesting.
@@ace6806and most of the new things are dlcs
@@EduardoGmes563 meanwhile console is rotting with literally nothing
@@00Grimreaper00mfs don’t even have safe house rip
@@ace6806are u coming back for payday 3?
I am kinda new to DSOD and did Alesso with a friend. He went into custody a couple times and I had to holdout near the end for around 20 minutes overall. The heist took us 52 minutes.
Avrage loud dsod lobby
I hope the two of you liked the alesso soundtrack at least ;p
@@ace6806 i havent played alleso heist for a long tine and wheni got it in crimespree i just bomved my ears lmfao
It is alright for a bit, I can generally listen to a song for hours but I just don’t like the Alesso heist song for anything longer than 20 minutes.
@@ztein9058 too bad u need to get the c4in 4 hours
It's really impressive and satisfying to see someone push their way through DSOD heists like it's just a chore, not because of it's difficulty but along with it's bullshit that it spreads because of overkills doing with the code. As well the labrats jump trick made me shocked, I must of been stuck on that heist for hours because of how many times I went down on the zipline. Wonderful work.
What 1900h of Payday does to a mf, thank you kind sir c:
I heard that persona 2 battle music in the bank heist deposit section, great choice
I do really wonder if you did every heist in 1 attempt? I haven't seen a mention of failed attempts anywhere, maybe I just didn't see said part. To me it feels like you just picked the finished run for the 17 hours of playtime and ignored any other attempt, sure that works for in-game time to win this challenge but if you have lets say 10 hours worth of restarting additionally, this challenge would be obviously failed. For reference my all heists solo videos have around 29 hours of gameplay but another at least 8 hours or so of just failing.
But hey, maybe it's just me and you actually did all heists within 1 go, I can respect the effort.
ask joe, i haven't played this game in months and these recordings are even older, would be pretty crazy for me to remember how every heist went. if you had watched the video, however, you would've seen i afk'd through a lot of heists and even let the cops kill me often because of how boring it was, not to mention me forgetting to change one medic bag into something more useful. on gs d2 i failed the gamble with cage and this is the same run where i finished the heist which rather hints that this wasn't exactly difficult. try playing an akimbo cr hacker solo build with bot boosts and full ai crew, then tell me how "hard" it is (read: even if i somehow failed a heist or two, there's no way in the world i had over 5h worth of fails). if you feel the video is cheated, then the best you can do is leaving a dislike and moving on
@@ace6806 the best you can do is git gud. Why did you get so defensive about the video being "cheated"? is there something you're hiding? lol.
@@AlFredo-sx2yy Yeah true, that last part of the text wall kind of makes everything else seem pretty aggressive
I never do loud DS (really need to bite that bullet someday) so your videos on it are always an interesting watch - it's like a completely different game, and not just because of the HUD differences, mine is just Poco with a couple of adjustments.
Also, what's the song that starts at roughly 51:20?
Thanks for the kind words, the track was: th-cam.com/video/loSj5Iy1OOs/w-d-xo.html
Killer Instinct ost is fire in general
You should start from a mission with lots of cover, single enemy spawning point, and just holdout in general like undercover, it gets you started with taking cover
I wasn't expecting The Tiger Warrior to be in a PAYDAY video.
Don't complaining tho, I like it
KI ost slaps
Even if i'm 1 year late that is not how DSOD looks like, it's like playing on very hard because on DSOD you are swarmed by enemies and don't have space to breath so it's safe to assume this run was done with probably a couple of mods and the lack of snipers in the outside areas of some heists is truly weird because once you leave it's a laser party
Cool video! Watching you guys go through all heists on the hardest difficulty made it look pretty easy!! May i ask what build you were using with the micro uzi and the akimbo CRs?
Thank you. Check Klean's comment under this video, I left the build there
Hi, I'm from Russia, and I'm writing this text through a translator. I just want to say that your videos are very interesting, keep it up)))
Thank you very much, great to hear that
I have been playing since beta (only ~1200 hours, inf 55) and still have 20 maps left to complete in DSOD. I'm just curious, do you have a link for the builds you used for this video? You make this game look way too easy :)
I haven't touched the game in months, so I don't remember exactly, but I ran multiple versions of the same build (akimbo cr and micro uzi): pd2builder.netlify.app/?s=1Q381000f0100010iF00211m120100&p=k&a=0&t=d&d=5
You can change a few skills if you'd like, but try to keep the detection risk either at 23 or 26
@@ace6806 hey thanks for the reply!! I typically play only armourer or anarchist on DW, so switching to stoic / hacker / leech will take some time to adjust to, can't quite seem to get a good feel for when to use the abilities. I especially find that DS w/bots or players I need to be constantly killing just to survive the spot I'm camping at, a pretty drastic step up in difficulty but I'll get the DSOD mask one day soon (great DSOD video guide as well ;) )
@@dfgchjhkbnl From what I know, hacker was buffed recently and its stun is very consistent now, so you should give it a go. The moment you memorize enemy spawns on the heists, you should be unkillable with it now.
At the end of no mercy all the bots must be deeper in the elevator if they are close to doors or walls near them the elevator wont close
The assault indicator, lmao. I've been using a similar build, and I can't believe how broken Hacker is, especially with the akimbo cr. Never really used it outside of stealth, but damn this is crazy. It plays a lot simpler than Leech for me, as well. Probably going to go for all the heists now.
I consider hacker to be in a tier of its own, above every deck in the game. As you can see by the comments I'm being called a cheater and all I did was AFK through most heists, so it's pretty funny
@@ace6806 honestly that's why i'm so agaisn't using it at times, i wanna main underpowered stuff because it seems cooler q:[
25:55 when the bot is next to the elevator doors, the script does not work
Oh, dang... Thanks for info
@@ace6806 thanks for great video :D
I checked the build you shared here. so the dodge is THAT good with only 1 joker and no sneaky bastard? I tried a similar build but I instantly die with feedback when I run outside idk why.
Also could you make a video about the current meta builds or maybe share some if you have?
look at Bay1k - Kevkild - Carrot and Uncle geldgeil for builds. they have dsod loud builds that are super good
What ZEAL units are those? They look cool :o
And what's your HUD? I thought it was MUI, but the assault indicator was still there!
its jarey's zeal
also hes using MUI, he just disabled the MUI's objective panel option (i think)
Which mod you use for that realistic blood? I tried install from one of your vídeos of showing your mods but i put on mods paste and didnt work,can you say the name of where did you install it? And the name of the mod
i know i know... kinda late, but what's the loadout and build? i really like the looks and power of those huge weapons... you know the ones you hold with both hands...
I have only 8 heists left for the DS OD mask and only problematic heist I had was the biker heist day 1 and it was completely due to the bad design I had no problem completing harder heists such as no mercy or henrys rock
No Mercy is one of the easiest loud heists bcs its a Lot CQC
@@-_Focus_- graze sniper and poison grenades and it will turn into a point n click adventure
For some reason a good chunk in the “raid: shadow legends” portion is muted. (Btw i love the “like and subscribe assault banner, lol)
IIRC copyright issues, I had to yeet that section, thank you c:
Next: can you beat all the DSOD missions in payday 2 and get a refund?
monkaS
Trying to get the DSOD mask solo, don't wanna drag other folks down in pubs or whatever, and I feel like I'm going nowhere fast. I've only beaten Counterfeit and Cook Off in about 5 days of attempts on various heists. Resi Dogs is horrible for me, but I know it'll only get worse from here. Any tips from anyone? Should I play with AI or without? I always feel like I get overrun with so many cops and I can't keep up.
always play with ai.
What mods do you use for the blood decals?
What was the song that is playing in the background during the Scarface Mansion?
He’s using The Tiger Warrior by Mick Gordon
This elevator "bug" is not common knowledge? When the AI (and maybe the player?) stands to close to side of where the door is, it won't close. Just shout at the AI, so they move. The moment they get away from the door side, the door closes.
BTW on alesso heist u said u dont know how vents work
if u have writed "lobby" its gonna give ur bags to main area so u should throw bags into this vent when u do this loud
other two are for stealth
but u not stealth player so u dont need to know this ;)
Ah, thank you for the info
@@ace6806 no problem i like help ppl ;)
i like help so i say many tips to new ppl in payday 2 but its awesome when i can help someone who play this game better than me
Challenge:
Can you finish the game on death sentence using "realistic" builds and weaponry?
- All guns must have a realistic look to them (attachments are allowed as long as they ain't too crazy)
- Skills are allowed as long as they're placed in way that makes believable and comparable to a real heister.
- The Perk deck you use must be realistic as something that a real heist could use during an actual heist ( Carrying tougher armor (armorer), etc)
- No ECMs
- No Jokers
And ofcourse, you're not allowed to use any armor expect the lightweight vest, the standard ballistic vest and the Heavy Ballistic vest (the one without the shoulders armors)
why wpuld you want a videogame to be 'realistic'? and payday 2 ? the games is all about the goofy shit.
What mod u use for the gore?
What weapons do you use or mods to make the animations foto look better ?
In no mercy that wasnt a glitch at the elevator. U need to go in the elevator like 2 meters away from the door
25:55 you need to get the bots further in the elevator to advance it
bro, this is legendary shit!
Thank you, I tried ^^
i would like to know what build you use ? also btw great video
Like how Jammer is the one reading his own name in the video, saying he was with his friend, Jammer
It's actually Arn reading the script. th-cam.com/video/WoebuFSINiU/w-d-xo.html - you can hear Jamm talk here.
Sorry my bad, knew I made a mistake
I have to say, that out of all saw users in this game, you are certainly one of them lol. Anyway, knew it was possible from the start, but it's nice to see it done. gj
One of the saw users ever :sunglasses:
When the ramblers get to rambling
what build did you use for akimbo smgs
At least some bot was doing the job and solo is so annoying since you're limited with resources
Truly an insane challenge
Should I buy all new dlc to be able to unlock the mask? Or is it possible to obtain with just legacy collection?
Hmmmm, I don't know if the newest heists apply, but some of the ones not included in the legacy collection do, so I believe you need to finish every map
i love ur videos and is there any option to play with u? bc i always wanted to play with u when i first time seen ur channel
Nowadays that'd be pretty difficult, the last time I played payday was months ago. If I were to play the game again at some point, I will let you know.
what mod did u use for these blood decals
Why are enemy spawns so low for you?
you can see on bank heist: random that the spawns aren't low, the AIs are simply that good.
Probably cheats, who knows
How do you get ReShade to work without crashing the game upon launching it? Also I really dig your ReShade preset and the HUD you’ve been using.
Make sure to select the proper API otherwise it may not work. I don't really have issues with reshade in any game
what music you used in murky station section?
th-cam.com/video/S4E83RKavUU/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=KuroNick
kinda defeats the whole point of the challenge to have someone else play for you its not you that did the challenge, you had a friend help, although that wasn't stated in the rules it basically nulls the challenge
0:20 Dragon ball raging blast 2 music?
Where can i find that muzzle flash mod?
hey ace how do u get ur game to look like this?
How did you have the muzzle flash in color blue?
Do you have a timestamp?
27:39 forward
@@taxrabbbit746 Oh hm... actually no idea what causes it. You might have to download my mods and check one by one: th-cam.com/video/zavhUFn2YRY/w-d-xo.html&t
Build? i think this build is very strong. so i would have expected a run down of your build. But i dont see no run down or nothing? so what is the build used here, i am trying to get the mask too with a friend but no builds are good enough.
Pretty sure I mentioned it somewhere in the comments under someone's request
What's your build?
i love ur videos bro u really good, can u please tell ma what is the blood mod, what is the name?❤️💪🏻
th-cam.com/video/zavhUFn2YRY/w-d-xo.html&t
The set of my gore mods can be found here.
@@ace6806 thank you so much 👍🏻❤️
Whats your build sir?
What Dpi and sensitivity are you playing on?
4800 dpi, lowest in-game sens
Do you have any low level no dlc builds?
Low level as in non-infamy?
Can i pls have the reservoir dogs/Alesso heist build pls?
well
its not the best generator place on alaskan deal bc of hose
imo the best gen is on left side near boat (its diff to repair but easy to def)
Ya, thinking about it, with bots the generator near the ship might be the best.
Havent played in years. They massacred my crutch anarchist to sell these new perk decks 😢
I completely installed your pack of modifications and I have a question which mod changes the death animation of units? it's just that they all sit down on their knees after death
Where did he share his mod pack?
What happened to your voice? you sounded different before
Ok, can someone please give me a full rundown (perks and all) of this hacker build? It looks absolutely amazing!
kys ily🤤😩💦🥵🤨👨🏻🦳✈️🏢🔥
But why after some time all my samples where wrong or destroyed?
In no mercy
When you go down the sample gets destroyed and you need to get a new one
Really i didn't know that thanks ace!
Ah no i know what you thought but my question was another because when you bring the sample and start the test it blows in the machine every time after getting the first and the second Right
@@nocommentarygameplay3798 Analyzing a sample is a simple matter of RNG on whether it'll be correct or not.
You can reuse the same "machine" thing and it'll still roll to give you either a correct or wrong one, good to keep in mind as to not run around and risk downing yourself.
this is a sick hud which one is it?
pretty sure it's the default hud with "better assault indicator" mod
hacker is comparable to leech, thats insane
Arguably even better :D
I haven't watched this guy in a while, why did he go from what he sounded like before, to now being australian and renamed, tf happened?
Still lit builds and challenges though
Your builds? Love the uzi
mark 10 is objectivly better
@@apchistuzdepends. Need concealment? Grab micro uzi!
Need an SMG that can easily deal with anything except turrets? Mark 11!
Kinda Sounds like lockes son
I just got carried to mine it still took us 7 days of grinding all day
Basically grinding from 10 am to 1 am every day
Don't complain about no mercy rng, ask yourself why you keep going loud the second the heist starts.
Damn joe has no mercy for anyone 😂
We're here to draw some blood from a guy that they have in quarantine
whats ur build with the AK at the beginning?
It's a not-so-strong sociopath build with ak + 5/7. I don't remember the skillset, but I wanted to make a video on it at some point.
what's your hud?
and it takes me 2 days to beat one
So no lost in transit
Description
@@ace6806 ok
@@ace6806 also very impressive
Also what builds used
bruv tf is this indian music playing in the background i feel like im in a kebab store
kebabs arent indian brother
Can you do next build is for hailstorm mk5
This f*cking gun make sick !
Its easiest for the switch version because it has less heists
In some ways yes
yokai what happen
Where O.O
@@ace6806 You are not videoing >:(
@@biret_pit But I'm editing a video as we speak :)
@@ace6806 YOOOOOOOOOOO
I'm gonna be honest, I thought this meant that it was from level 0 infamy 0 to DSOD Mask within 24 hours
Still possible, lots of the challenge was just AFKing, the bots carry hard. Though not as fast, I guess 22-23h would be the time.
@@ace6806Also what are ur builds lol? Them builds actually look kinda fun.
@@thepanzerofthelake732 You'd have to look through my build videos to find about them. I no longer have any of my builds because one of the updates broke my profiles and I don't remember much about the game to begin with
nice!
Come back
Great idea, unfortunately very hard to initiate when you're away from home 24/7 ;-;
@@ace6806 😭😭😭😭
WTF??? u are dodging on "hacker" better then " Rogue ". How could it be ??
hacker is the best dodge build in the game, rogue kinda sucks
@@4cr1d after this video i tried hacker build again. And it doesn't work like on your video. Every second shot is with damage from enemies And this is in the house. On the outside - death. I turned on the ecm ,yeah, a few guys was stopped, but the others made few shots and i died. The dodge is not work almost at all ( i am not a noob, a know how to do detection - 3 and take Sneaky Bastard ). I dont know how u rush into the crowd of enemies, something unreal
its called cheats
come back pls :c
But I am here :D
@@ace6806 r we getting more vids? c:
@@boti. Working on one now as we speak. Gotta say goodbye to payday 2 before payday 3 :D
@@ace6806 that means we are getting new payday 3 builds in the future? C:
@@boti. I will try my best. I don't know how much I will be able to upload in the future, but I'd like to upload some payday 3 stuff. This year is kinda hard and the next one is gonna be even harder :(
e