Laser Companies are Lying to You
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 พ.ค. 2024
- Lasers are great, but marketing and prodcut descriptions sometimes aren't. Lets dive into the top 5 lies that I've seen laser companies tell and how to avoid them!
My top laser recommendations - • The Best Laser Engrave...
The Laser Comparison Chart - pages.makeorbreakshop.com/las...
Lightburn Course - course.makeorbreakshop.com/le...
00:00 - Intro
00:23 - Lie 1
03:22 - Lie 2
04:58 - Lie 3
07:21 - Lie 4
09:19 - Lie 5 - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
*Quick correction, the Sculpfun S9 has an electrical input of 30W, the 90W in the product listing is from what they compare it too. It shows that in the product right above the laser output, I just missed it like a dummy..... 🤦
While true that the first listing (LGT LONGER RAY5) was listed as 40W that being totally false and it does not look like it has an option for it, you did select the size “5W”. I can see there’s also a “20W” for double the price. The listing of 40W up top won’t change, even when selecting the 5W or 20W. Though, the listing matches the type you selected. The point you make is totally valid and true but your exaggerating your point and I think a correction needs to be made.
Loads of micro edits = Concentration agenda.
That goes for all channels that do it.
40 W laser engraving.. if you scroll down you see it says it has a 5.5W diode.......
Might be worth noting that the safety glasses that come with the diode lasers never state their performance.
Oh, and even if they did good luck calculating the NOHD with them, they won't tell you the beam waist or the divergence.
don't even need to scroll down its right in the headline of the listing lol@@habiks
Everyone is lying to me.
It's true. Sifting through bullshit marketing is absolutely exhausting.
Truth
Comment of the year award ❤
Not me! You wanna buy these beans? They're special, magic beans.
Even you...
I’m glad you’re telling this. I was looking through the lasers last week, but it was making me mad because it looked like some listings were being deceptive
A great vid but just like the companies I feel you are understating the danger of an open enclosure a little bit. Fire is one things but a far more imminent danger from using a laser and wanting to see how it is cutting and engraving is being blinded for the rest of your life.
Even a stray beam from a 5 watt laser is enough to turn your vision from stereoscopic to monoscopic and that'll happen a whole lot faster than starting a fire.
Thanks for this video. I am brand new to engraving and I am watching lots of videos to educate myself before I go spending a lot of money on things that I may not really need. I appreciate this video teaching where to find the important information I will need to know once I set up the machine that a friend of mine had advanced beyond. The machine did not come with an inclosure, but the more videos I watch the clearer it becomes that I really need one to keep fumes and fire from happening.
This randomly showed up on my feed and I never knew I needed this hobby
Great list. Coming from the co2 world and getting into diodes second, a lot of the marketing and "defaults" were a shock to me. Couldnt believe they were sold without enclosures and was I convinced it was illegal. 😂
It's the wild wild west
Keep in mind that an enclosure will NOT prevent a fire. There is still plenty of air introduced when making cuts (primarily to prevent burn cuts) and the air/smoke is evacuated to the outside of the enclosure (hopefully though some kind of vent system to the outside of the building). The only safe way to avoid your home from burning down is to never leave the tool alone when operating it.
The Roly Lasermatic 10 watt diode laser comes complete with an enclosure, fan, honey comb bed, rotary attachment and air assist. The enclosure is laser safe acrylic.
that's awesome, I need to add it to my list!
I'm so glad I came here because this is something you want to enjoy straight off the bat with your projects and it would be sour to be duped. First thing I looked at was the Laser Power and its sneaky
Totally true. I mentioned some of these things in my last video too. Happens too often. Great video!
yep, way too much!
I have a diode laser with auto-focus but sadly in the unit they sent me it doesn't work at all. I've tried countless times and worked with their support, just nothing. I have to do it manually with the spacer.
Good Video, learned a lot from it. I'm looking for a Lazer engraver that I can engrave last names on 3/4" - 1-1/4" pieces of wood. One that takes up to 18" long and up to 10" wide. Not real expensive and on the smaller side. I know the Glowforge Pro would do the trick. Are there any others out there that you recommend that would work as well or better that might be cheaper? Thanks for any advise you might have.
Good lord that saw footage was crazy unsafe.
Not only the companies. TH-camrs make it look deceptively easy and I very rarely ever see them talk about the pitfalls...most don't even mention the need to vent fumes from burning. I regularly see posts from people who have no idea how to get started, they bought them thinking was like having a printer. It is very much not like that, it is a steep learning curve in image manipulation and also software that is needed to get the best from your laser.
They don't mention the need to vent fumes because YOU ARE BURNING SOMETHING. It is basic goddamn common sense that if you burn something, VENTILATION IS REQUIRED.
@@KainYusanagi You make an awful lot of noise for someone who isn't really saying anything at all. Not everyone knows everything. A lot of people coming to arts and crafts maybe never burned a thing in their lives.
I can tell right away that there is a great deal that you do not know about in the world, and I doubt that you have very much BASIC GODDAMN SENSE.
At 11:38 for the speed test did you use the setting "Constant laser power" in LightBurn? I have a theory that without this the laser will compensate for the gantry slow speed when accelerating and you will miss the real test value how actually fast you can go. There should be a threshold in the speed chart after which all the squares would look the same in the columns regardless of the speed, so you could see that the laser gantry could not run any faster than the threshold speed.
I also have falcon2 laser and now I'm eager to do the test as you did here but with "Constant laser power" setting on and off. Really good video, thank you for making this.
good point! Also most of the times overscanning is turned on which will overshoot each side giving it time to speed up and slow down.
I find that engraving at high speeds works great if you just need to mark a light pattern that you're going to cut out by hand. When it doesn't need to be detailed or dark. I did it for a table I was making. Did the pattern with my laser at max speed and low dpi, then carved out the pattern by hand so I could fill with different colors of epoxy resin. Made a round 18" table with a gold and copper color tree of life.
Why would i cut by hand if i have a laser. It could be useful only for very tick materials.
Really informative. Thank you. Just goes to show the unregulated bullsh*t they get away with.
I bought a diode laser, but returned it unopened after being properly warned about the safety aspects.
These things should require training courses. There is so much that could go wrong so easily, including fires, toxic inhalation, and permanent blindness.
what you mean "unregulated"? The advertising plastered on a new car window says your car gets an average of a hundred miles a gallon. Which car ever meets or even exceeds the numbers listed? And, these numbers are by regulations.
@@kurtwm2010 the laser specs are unregulated. That’s how they get away with false statements. This has fk all to do with mpg, id*ot.
Hi, i like all your videos,i want to buy my first laser as a hobby to start.Base on your experience wich one do you recommend ATEZR L2 36W-Wizmaker L136W or Montport 40w?for glass and metal
Great info. Have you tested yet the Sculpfun of 33w? I saw that can cut up to 40mm
I haven't, I have tested a few other diodes around that range. Main issue is just all that power and exposed fumes/exhaust if you don't have an enclosure.
that is a good clarification, of course the sellers are going to BS the potential buyer, and if they dont then they have my attention. A question; I wear eye correction, do you have a video on best options for eye protection, (especially for glasses ) ? an now searching for the "right" diode setup for me, and intend to be fully prepared in the safety department. Thanks for the data.
Great info!
Fantastic video. Keep these guys honest!
Always!
What would be a good measurement for measuring laser lumans per square cm per meter?
Great video man! Thank you for the really explaining things they way they should be. Can you recommed a laser cutter that would be cost effective, safe and do good work for me if I'm only going to be doing wooden and metal candle lids? Thanks in advance for any help you can give me with this.
The cutting and engraving metal is the one that gets me, a diode (generally unless IR) will not engrave or cut aliminum it will remove the anodised coating
It depends on the frequency. Xtool, for example, sells an IR laser head and includes one in the F1 galvanometer machine. These are diode lasers and will engrave in metals, including aluminum.
Yeah there's a typo in my message that says it rather than ir!
@@derekwright3896you should probably edit the typo rather than say it was a typo in a reply😅
@@stevendorries Very good point!
I see too many comments in lasering groups asking: "OK, I got my new laser, how do I make it work?"
90W Co2 Laser effect..Can cut 15mm of wood at most! Hey 3:08, what was that cut on, I love charts. that's a great one.
i only buy the diodes, and about the best ive found readily available are 5W... nichia nubm08 or summink? can pulse them a bit harder, but yeah... continuous, without chilling water cooled loops... 5W.
wavelengths matter... what transfers the most energy to the workpiece, ie, is absorbed the most readily by most surfaces versus reflected? blue? or IR? dont have a choice with diodes other than wimpy green... which is IR under the lens.
meh, diodes are cool but the aberration is annoying. beam correction is a hassle, and most dont do it. need a semi cylindrical or anamorphic prism setup... fiddly. if you want the precisest DOT possible rather than a line...
theres another thing about depth and its the focal length. a short beam obviously must have a steep convergence angle, with a wide dispersion cone beyond the focal point. you make conical cuts. a long focal length gives closer to a parallel beam.
in the end, you still get the same energy on the dot but the long focal length does have the head far away... more scatter, more wobble, more jitter and error amplification...
focusing to a dot then collimating is next to impossible as the AR surface coatings break down... the beam has too pretty well much cover the entire lens or yeah. smoke :)
played with combining.splitting prisms with three diodes but omfg, not worth it. take more passes.
i know theres an actual assembly but im a cheapskate. one day i might get a CO2...
I find it crazy that people buy into the unshielded lasers expecting anything good to come of it. The only laser cutter/engraver I have experience with was a massive unit with full shielding and multiple warning stickers about the dangers of laser radiation. These unshielded units are either not powerful enough to do what they advertise, or they are dangerously leaking radiation into your surroundings and you should probably discontinue using it. Generally, a laser above 5mw is enough to cause eye damage if directly shone into your eyes, and lasers above around the 250mw range can cause temporary eye damage indirectly in large exposure. Above 500mw, the damage is permanant.
These units are often claiming their lasers are "40W", which is 80 times the limit for permanent eye damage. This makes the lasers about 9 times more dangerous to handle for the end user. At this level, indirectly viewing the beam or the landing point of the beam will damage your eyes, likely permanantly. The wave length of the laser doesn't change much about the danger to your eye sight, as even undetectable in the UV and IR wave lengths will blind you. Non-visable-light-based lasers (say that 5 times fast) are often more dangerous as you don't even have any reflexes to mitigate the damage. Visable light lasers will cause your eye to reflexively close, which limits the exposure time and chance of blindness. IR and UV wavelengths don't trigger this response, so you won't know anything is wrong until your eye starts hurting which means the exposure time is already exceeding three times the normal amount for visable light, if not more so. Don't cheap out on laser tech, it's dangerous.
I can understand how focusing works for the engraving function which is more or less planar, but how does it work when cutting? When the beam had penetrated a millimeter into the material, one would need to lower the focus by that millimeter, but then some "sideways" rays that come at angle wouldn't reach deep into the groove and will hit the material around the groove instead. Heating and possibly graying them. Is there a place where I can find explanations on that matter?
Don't forget the safety glasses that come with diode lasers are unable to filter the laser frequency and your eyes will pay the price. Always buy separate glasses that will do the job
Yes... and also... laser cutting smells really bad.. even with strong filtering...
Great video bro!
thanks!
I was laser engraving all the wood products in Explorer Vans back in the early 90's. Things have come a long way since then.
A question my friend, between the longer ray5 10w and mecpow 10w, which would you recommend?
Hello thank you for your videos ,
which one you would recommend for a beginner - SCULPFUN S30 Ultra-20W Vs ORTUR Laser Master 3 20W,
My requirement is bed size and upgradable. with good cutting capability.
I have had a glowforge for a few years and the power supply just went out. They want $1500 to fix it can’t afford that. I have a project for the school coming up and I need a cheap laser engraver for about 300 bucks. Do you have any suggestions? Make On
It could not be so difficult to change that psu… these people are nuts!
A lot of the companies that are stating incorrect power of the lasers are not intentionally lying but rather have language translation issues. Specially when listing products on Amazon, the fields can be vague and further complicate the translation. In Chinese, if a field requests “power” they will translate that field and input the actual power draw, believing that is what is being requested. It’s a fine line but speaking several languages I see it happen frequently and rarely due to deception.
No, it's not a translation issue. It's an intentional misleading marketing issue.
I want to engrave on sterling rings. What would you suggest? Also why won’t the x tool machines cut sterling silver
The wavelength in those lasers is comparable to the wavelength of light used during intraeye laser surgery. In other words, diode lasers go right past your cornea and start burning the inside of your eyes. CO2 lasers however view clear plastic and your corneas as opaque. Therefore, it's exceptionally easy to shield your eyes from CO2 lasers and basically impossible for diodes.
Aliexpress does this a loooooot.
I did get one that had a much greater cutting depth than the one the original one I had but it was way out of focus when I got out. I had to do a lot to it so I think they're like defective units and then they get resold without the original brand on them.
Is theee a laser you recommend for cutting boards, stove noodles, or wooden utensils? Looking for a laser under 800.00
Your forgot to mention the Roly LaserMatic 10 that comes in a full enclosure with exhaust, air assist, and rotary.
3:00 Yes it is true....You CAN compare them....They're way off BUT you CAN compare them....
Semantics....
I want to engrave petg prints. (for text) Can I still get one of those cheap ripoffs? Or will that only lead to disappointment?
I had a fun argument a few weeks back with a clown on Facebook who claimed his tiny 10w diode could cut though 3/4" ply like butter lol
Thanks for the info. I'm considering building my own laser engraver/cuttter. I want it to be able to cut up to 1/4 inch plywood and maybe 1/8 inch acrylic. Would a 40W diode laser with a 5.5W optical output do that in 1 - 2 passes or would I need to go up to 80W or something else? I have more time than money so speed isn't as big a factor. The mechanical portion is the least cost and problem. I have a machining background as well as machine tools to build the mechanics. The most difficult part for me is choosing a decent module that won't hurt the bank to much.
If you want a diode it would be better to just buy the machine. Diode modules are now very expensive. Only way it would make sense if that you are building a really big frame.
@joeltorres3202 Yes I need a larger frame than what is available even with a extension kit
Ive been reading up prior to buying one myself. Diode machines typically have lasers with
Many of them list the output power these days like XTool and Atezr.
Are there any diode lasers that can be used with iPad? What would be the best laser for a beginner? Many thanks
Atomstacks can be controlled via an app, but its pretty rudamentary and only lets you start jobs uou already have on an sd card inside the device. Also it connects over WiFi like a crappy 30 bucks wireless printer
You need to update the spreadsheet and add the Falcon2 please
Laser cutters/engravers that dont come with enclosure, fume extraction and fire suppression should be illegal.
Have you tested a Creality Falcon 2?
Where can I get that speed chart print out thing? (11:54)
How do i make that power and speed test?
Co2 will be more powerful and faster. Though the focus burn is tighter on diode.
Diode are easier to maintain ( no mirrors).
good points! I want to do a video showing side by side differences between CO2 and diodes especially when it comes to engraving.
@@makeorbreakshop
Its a massive difference.
I ran a couple different diode. But on one of them i almost ended up in hospital due to the fumes that accumulated over the day. I said no more and went co2. For the enclosure. Just wasnt worth building an enclosure for the diode.
Speed is massively different.
1.5 year later and we are looking at a 130w to increase speed more.
If you are doing photos.. Diode is better choice. But here you also get into the quality/ cleanliness of the wood.
can thin metal sheet (0.5 -1mm) be cut with these small laser machines?
1:40 Like I said....The title/header says it all....
Ahh yes. "Chinese Honesty"
Or as we say it "putting whatever words and numbers in the ad that makes westerners buy it"
Remember there is a threshold between the energy needed to cut some materials and the energy needed to ignite the same material
Most of them came without enclosure because were advertised to be used over things (mat, skates…) and upgradeable.
The very best lie brands don’t tell you is “this is cheap because it comes without basic things like endstoppers, air assist… and after you buy everything you ended investing near (or most) than a cheaper co2 (with the chiller which is the same lie for k40 models)”
Conclusion: diode for cardboard/plywood and large areas meanwhile CO2 for acrylic, faster jobs and professional usage (at similar prices on the lower tier. If you want to get serious get ready for going over 2K euros easy…)
I have a Ortur laser. It is pretty good for hobby use.
Also remember diode lasers to my knowledge can't do cut clear acrylic.
yep, can't do anything clear. Need a CO2 for that.
@@makeorbreakshopnot true… you can engrave using a black metal shit under the transparent acrylic and focusing on it instead the acrylic. Physics will do the rest ;)
You need to dig a bit more into diode lasers to avoid such mistakes (like the wattage in your first comment)
The. Diode watage rating was always a complaint of mine.
Its a combined max of everything on the assembly. So laser turned up. Servos under full load etc.
Also when you get into large diode lasers the rating is not equal to a co2 laser. Again different capabilities also.
100%
Just tell me what to buy.. but not too expensive ❤
Good info. So much bull.
Even by reputable sites
Have you ever taken a look at the Vevor units?
I'm considering the 10w model with air assist and rotary roller. Works out to around US300 (In Australia it's A$590 inc delivery)
It will mostly be used for engraving and cutting thin plywood. Clearly, I'll need to make an enclosure and will use the same extractor I use for 3D printing.
I am not familiar with this 10w laser, but looked at some claims the company makes. 10,000mm/min. Let's see, that's about 33ft or 10meters. I would be surprised if it can cover that distance and even if it does, it very likely would not be able to burn/engrave toilet paper.
An air assist would likely cost you another US$60-80. Safe some money and purchase a fish tank air pump for $10. A rotary attachment will likely run around US$80-220 depending on model and features and then you will need a honeycomb for cutting wood. That's another US$60-100 depending on brand.
If you insist on an enclosure, make sure you can exhaust the air/smoke to the outside of the building. Burning wood inside an enclosure that is not vented is a fantastic way to start a huge fire. I use my machines mostly inside a garage. I want to see what is being engraved or cut and use no enclosure. I use a big old $25 fan to draw smoke to the outside of the garage. Works great for me, BUT I do not leave the machine unattended when working with wood. My machine also detects a fire and at least turns itself off (still no excuse to leave it unattended). Lastly, an enclosure will restrict you to the size of the work piece you can work with.
I don't agree with all that was being said in this video. What bothers me a little is whether or not this reviewer/evaluator purchased all these machines listed on his spreadsheet or have they been provided free by their respected companies. I feel this to be more of a commercial for the machine that is sitting in the background throughout the video.
@@kurtwm2010 Thanks for the detailed reply.
I only plan on engraving/cutting small items and as my workroom is part of the house an enclosure that pulls air outside is a must for me. Good point about not leaving machines unattended. I do have a couple of fire suppressant cans in the room in case of the worst.
I wouldn’t buy shit from a company that does nothing but roam through the industrial districts of China looking for any and all shit to slap their label on and export it.
It boils down to common sense & reading comprehension 🤦♀️ that we lack in society nowadays
I wholeheartedly agree with your words. Read the darn description, do some research and most importantly match the tool with the work you will be doing. A 10w laser might be cheap, but certainly has great limitations over a 20w or even 40w laser.
thanks
Oh my god please nobody use a table saw like the clip at 8:57 unless you like injuries and flying wood
This video's background music isn't loud enough nor annoying enough. But still a good effort.
I have been researching for a laser, a diode one to keep the costs down. The one piece of information I would like to know is, which one has the least trouble to use. I hear compalints of all sorts, the OLM stops in the middle of a job, or another company, all the suddent the image jumps over an inch, etc. I basically want something that is reliable with 20w laser.
Believe it or not, skipping is mostly caused by not maintaining the equipment and keeping the rails clean and oiled or by not properly tightening belts.
I have worked on lasers with a 120W output.
Class action lawsuit, please
I like the idea of getting a laser cutter/engraver, but I am wholly against getting one without a full enclosure that's fully opaque to the laser frequency the machine uses. Sure you can wear goggles and protect yourself, but if there's any more than zero chance that someone else could walk in while it's running, no matter how small, then I'm unwilling to accept the risk of inadvertently causing permanent eye damage to them. Class 4 lasers are nothing to play with; even just seeing the spot they make can cause eye damage before the signal reaches the brain.
i once saw these guys at a craft fair with like 5 of these open diode laser engravers doing like custom coasters or something. there was no shield or light block or anything there were kids staring at these lasers with no eye protection from like a foot away. thats super dangerous right? i dont know how they were approved by the craft fair
That is insane on both the craftsman and the organizer's part, most of the time they wouldnt permit anything below completely blacked out encasing with digital observation
I know what you mean, my mom's local craft fair allows a glass engraver to just do their thing in the middle of the mall, completely dry. Even when you can clearly see the particles cloud around him. Always give his booth a wide berth.
People reviewing these machines should expose as you are doing.
What's the point of a list of machines with data points without the ability to copy to a database file?
Imagine trying to build high power heldheld lasers about 8-10 years ago.... Before we even had a green diode! They've always lied. It's part of why I stopped.
2:28 If it is using 90w of power and only giving you 5.5-6 that's pretty horrible.
one says its uses 30 watts and the other says 40 watt. it only says its comparable to a 90 watt co2 laser
Everyone I have seen, if you READ the COMPLETE description it will say 5 Watt, or 10 Watt or 20 Watt output. Just sayin..
True, but the majority of folks won’t and they know it
So its legal to false advertise?
uhhmm.. It looked like you were using geenish (likely welding-based) protective glasses for a laser that's around 450nm..
If that's right, then ur a bit wrong.. and you want orangey ones.. It's not LPF / HPF .. all the glasses are band-pass (or band-stop) filters.
I recall finding tables online, it might be worth some reflection.
What wattage is required for Plexiglas.
For transparent plexi glass use co2 laser and air-nose. 40w co2 laser can cut 3-5mm plexiglass on 10% power or less (very quickly.) tinted acryl can be cutted by diode. couple of mm with couple of Wattage. (The point is on the focus.Longer focus for cutting, short focal lens for engraving.)
These cutters should not be sold to the public. They should be enclosed and vented out of the room, not because of fire hazard as much as toxic vapors from the laser ablation. God knows what idiots will try to cut, releasing toxic gases. Shame on Amazon.
I hear you. I bought the 10w upgrade for snap maker 2.0, and I a, soooooo disappointed. It won’t even cut any type of metal. I was hoping I could cut some thin sheet metal. Nope. Only engrave. What’s the worst joke is that even though their website says it will engrave on glass and metal, the software has zero settings for this. So, which one is telling the truth? Why different? Annoying. Now they are hawking a 40w laser upgrade. Again, I call b.s. cause it will not cut metal either
don't think any cheap diode laser is going to cut metal.
You would need a fiber laser at around 200 watts or more i'm guessing to be able to cut any metals
Quick question, what machine would you recommend if all I used it for was photo engraving?
I'd go with a 5-10 W diode machine. If you are just doing a few and not a big production run than cheaper units from Ortur, Atomstack, Sculpfun are a great option.
No misunderstanding.It's just that those who choose a diode for themselves in 2023 have no problem understanding that 40w is 1 5W diode, 80W is 2 pieces of 5W,160W is 4 pieces of 5w.The latter in my opinion and the reason that CO2 will become a thing of the past machine 1000 1000 based on it will come out within 500 $. Performance? I'll buy 2 more and it will still be cheaper than CO2.
I got an ad for an x1 laser😂
I did notice that. The stronger lasers are around $1500
2:59 I mean I can compare a Toyota Tacoma to a Lamborghini, doesn't mean it's a good comparison lol
I was hoping this was going to be a build your own laser for a fraction of the price, kind of video.
I have three 60 watt machines in my shop ,,,, spoiler alert, they are $22k each.
You get what you pay for.
It's ok ,but...
At higher sections the method is similar.
For example a 50w fiber llaser engraver from keyence ( 20-30k$) pushing out more then 1,5kw in small pulses. The average output just 50w. Finally the result is much more effective for engraving, but not usable to cutting.
Everitime important to understand the method and physical backgrounds.
So i guess the longer ray5 runs in that category? Not....😅
Noticed the map of Middle Earth :)
I wonder what the BBB would have to say about these adds
Your 3rd grade teacher was lying to your parents when they allowed you to graduate.
“Marketing “ is lying. Across the board.
You can safely generalize this claim to *everything* sold by the vendor named in your thumbnail, not just lasers. From the manufacturer's name to the number of items per package, nothing on that site is a guarantee.
why do you keep calling it a 40w laser when its only a 5 watt
the whole unit can use up to 40 watts like most of the listings claim