With my Paragon Male Shepard, I gave the Collector Base to the Illusive Man. Because if you are Paragon and you gave him the Collector Base, Shepard says this at their encounter: "I gave you that base, to find a way to stop the Reapers. You've failed."
I always destroyed but since legendary edition I actually gave Cerberus the base just to try something new and yeah that line was good and also when Jack punches you at Grissom academy it actually makes sense. Plus if you take Javik to Cerberus HQ he has a disgusted reaction if he sees the human reaper.
Seriously. What the hell happened there? Its like he had a stroke. Like hes meant to be our enemy but then he's like. "Wait... You kinda liked us in ME2. I don't have an excuse to be mean."
The Illusive man and Tuchanka are two great examples of good writing, in that the 'paragon' answers aren't always the best, or most-respected by the NPCs.
No matter what you think of the Illusive Man. He liked Shepard, a lot. Respected him, I'm sure it's safe to assume he saw Shepard as a friend. As a Hero who was able to understand him. I'm sure seeing his frie-- best asset, turn against him really hit the Illusive Man right in the feels. You can tell by how painfully he says "Goodbye, Shepard" here (32:07) Futhermore, he keeps comparing any of his agents to Shepard (44:00). He's obsessed with the Symbolic Hero he brought back as you can see here too (32:52). When Leng replies that "it won't happen again", TIM seems confident in saying "Hmm. We'll see" almost like he hopes Shepard will survive. TIM is known to be calm in every situation, never gets that direct like he is here (33:35) "Damn it !", again trying to convince Shepard as a friend would do. Not only with facts but by adding emotions to the plead. 44:40 : Seems like he's stalling Leng on purpose, Shepard isn't only "occupying the Reapers" but also interferes with Cerberus' plans a lot. Again, I see TIM protecting Shepard as long as he can. 45:10 reinforces that feeling once more. He has no problem telling Leng to deal with Miranda should she become an annoyance. But no, not Shepard. TIM was fully aware of what he did and felt until he started fighting indoctrination when he decided to use implants here 47:56. I'm wondering now if he did it, being sure it'd work, just to impress Shepard the same way he impressed him with the Sovereign incident and the Collector Base's attack. That's what his answer to Shepard at 53:00 suggests, he *needs* him to "Believe" like it would regain Shepard's trust and respect. Two elements he seems to miss a lot from his friend. Right here 56:08 he's being hit right in his ego, like a lethal blow from Shepard. He not only wants to open the Citadel's arms but also his heart in a way. He realizes that he might lose the fight and has regrets. He wants to be sure that Shepard understands him and remembers him as someone who tried his best.TIM tried to become like Shepard, but his own hero proves him he failed. And failure, that he cannot accept. 57:52 reaffirms, to me, that TIM wanted Shepard to be like him... or rather TIM wanted to be like Shepard, hoping he'd see things his way. It's just my take on it. Renegade allows you to know more about the Illusive Man, and how to see things like he does. Paragon isn't the way to go. Being pragmatic. Being driven by facts, not emotions and following a mission is the cannon way to play Mass Effect. And nothing people will tell me will convince me otherwise. The secret ending proves it.
God, the contrast between ME2 and ME3 Illusive Man is night and day. After they turned Cerberus from a generic terrorist organisation in ME1 into one of the most morally complicated factions in video game history in ME2, they then let them go right back to being generic enemies for ME3. The Illusive Man ends up just as yet another 'obviously misguided villain'.What a waste.
temmychan Having cerberus have a bunch of grunts and shit was silly. They’re meant to be a black op team gone rogue. Have people like kai leng and stuff sure but don’t make us fight waves and waves of Cerberus. They should have been encountered only very few times. Running into cerberus should have been a HUGE deal, not facing them every time. The illusive man isn’t that bad in the third game though, he’s just become more indoctrinated and if you watch those video clips in his station you can see wtf was really going on with him
Personally, my headcanon is that their tinkering with reaper technology lead to them being indoctrinated between 2 and 3, hence why hes trying to control them instead of protect humanity, a classic indoctrinated move according to javik and previous experience with saren. It would also explain why so many of them deserted cerberous after that, like refugees fleeing a plague.
Kind of like Zeus in god of war. In the first game he was okay, but after kratos opened pandoras box he became corrupted and went after kratos. Could be the same after they recovered the human reaper.
Illusive Man is one of my favourite villains, i was really dissapointed how he was shown in ME3. I didnt really like him being indoctrinated, he was simply too smart to be affected by indotrination. Just imagine being able to have him and Cerberus as ally in the final battle.
Seems like he was already indoctrinated in ME2, those blue eyes weren't exactly subtle. But I do agree with you with how he was shown in ME3. I think they could have made the "he's indoctrinated" really work if he wasn't force-fed unto the player as an evil maniac. Having an option to join Cerberus would've made things so much more interesting. I'm not too sure with the Illusive Man being too smart for indoctrination, as the rules of indoctrination are quite murky, to say the least.
Same as Saren he still has enough will power to commit suicide even with all the reaper implants he has. If only previous choices/dialogs with him weren't pointless or for exemple fate of collector base meant something (we handle him base and he still says we can't make hard choices, etc.). I was also hoping we would get some more info about him in Andromeda, since Cora Harper has same name as him and Cerberus was probably heavily involved in Andromeda initiative. Just another thing that dissapointed me in Andromeda :(
It's true. Makes sense he's already indoctrinated and that's what makes him so intelligent. Jack Harpers (The Illusive Man) background is explained in a comic called Evolution. It basically explains how he got his eyes when he encountered a Reaper artifact during the first contact War.
I don't really think that he is a 100 percent bad guy. He just was wrong all the time about the reapers...and he became insane somehow. Anyway, he is one of my favourite characters i know...and i played a lot of games.
Simoon He's greedy and weak-minded. Intelligence is irrelevant when it comes to indoctrination resistance; it depends on mental strength and will power/determination.
What Bioware did with TIM was great because he **seems** to look like Martin Sheen, and definitely sounds like him. I think a few of the body movements could be tweaked for TIM to be even better, but he's a great character voiced by a Hollywood legend.
I wish they made an option that if you gave Cerberus the collecter base you would stay with them but if you destroyed the base you would stay with the allience
Back in the day, silly younger more naive me thought they'd put out 2 discs, 1 for renegade path 1 for paragon. Get what they did to mainstream it or whatnot into one story, but ya. Pre-ME3 me had me thinking ud be able to utilize the base, go full renegade/evil, give entire planets I guess to turn into Cerberus Human Reapers. If not giant human bots at least something tech or weapon wise. Was also hoping ud be able to give Morinth entire villages or colonies to sex-sume, turn her into a freaking monster beast that ultimately could sex-kill a Reaper Sorry for the length, just my thoughts on what could have been hah, take care
Something I discovered while replaying mass effect trilogy again recently is: Seren and Illusive man´s eyes are identical! anyone else notice that? unless the game explains that, i would assume illusive man has been indoctrinated since before we met him in me2
illusive man shouldn't have been a villain, just a dynamic character who was pro human like udina. me3 should have let you join Cerberus letting humanity dominate fully by controlling the reapers. its strange how mass effect shifted from humans and aliens to organics and synthetics it made things very black and white. me1 was pretty dark with lots of racism and in 2 and 3 you just see all races on the citadel chilling like they weren't all committing hate crimes two years ago and Shepard can't even be anti alien anymore.
3:14 wow. That's a hell of a manipulation comment from Tim. If there was, me3 wouldn't be Shepard doing exactly this. This took a couple of times listening to this one. What a well crafted writing story.
It's so unreal. They are talking about the subject of EDI, project Lazarus, and the other stuff right in front of the camera as if they had never spoken about it before. It doesn't make sense. If they were planing to use Reaper-tech on their new ship, the guy must have known that, so he wouldn't have talked about it just yet. It's so simplistic, and everything is so mystified that you'll never know what the illusive man is just doing at this moment, you just see one little peace of it while he has countless other plans right at this moment, making him a total superman.
@@williamkerfoot8039how is he overrated for creating one of the best videogame stories along with one of the best sci-fi's of all time despite its flaws??? "Overrated" my ass, dog.
@CantRead1 You're talking about Drew Karpyshyn you idiot! His stories for ME and ME2 are Shakespeare compared to that sorry excuse for a piece of dog 💩 he came up with for 3!
I can't be the only one who feels like the writing is much thinner when conversing with the Illusive Man as a Renegade. When choosing Paragon options, the dialogue has an easily identifiable dynamic. It's a clash of two personalities made to work with each other for greater reasons than whether they like each other. When choosing Renegade, the dynamic should be flipped, and whether or not the Illusive Man wants to be your friend, there should at least be a sense of agreement and faint brotherhood forming between Shepard and TIM. Instead, it feels more like you're missing a bunch of dialogue by choosing a path the developers didn't actually intend you to. Down to the point when, after agreeing with nearly all of each other's decisions, Shepard and TIM depart on puzzlingly hostile terms after the suicide mission.
I gave him the base for the first time my most recent playthrough and immediately regretted it (even though I already know what happens) he has such an evil look on his face like a generic movie panto villain rubbing his hand together and twirling his moustache as he looks at the collector base.
In lore wise Cerverus and other extremist pro-human groups are kinda right. Aliens have a really shady story with humans since first contact war where the Turians did a genocide on humans civilian colonies with asteroids without any reason, the attacked the humans just for being aliens breaking a law that they didn't knew it existed, even worse, humanes were put as the bad side in front of the galatic community. The Illusive Man lost his family on those genocides. And the counsil always treated humans as second class, they just want to have humanity on a leash because they fear their potential. Cerverus sees aliens as a trheat to human interests, and every advance aganist them is justified, even if that also means humans lives. I don't like Cerverus or Terra Firma but i can actually understand why they are the way they are. I like the concept and actually makes you think what kind of galaxy will be once the reapers are dead.
Still hate the ending of ME3, no matter what they tried to do with their extended cut DLC or whatever. Can´t believe that so much people, who were about to kill Casey Hudson for that ending, were then absolutely satisfied with the extended cut DLC and didn´t say one word of criticism again. Guys, Bioware successfully indoctrinated you. Cheers. It´s like Frodo reaching Mount Doom, about to throw the ring into the fire and ending all evil, only to see Sam suddenly turning into some sort of stupid starchild, telling him: "Ok Frodo, you cant´t destroy the ring, so you now have three options: 1. Give me the ring and i build a land of flowing milk and honey for you. 2. Give Sauron the ring an he will merge humans, elves, hobbits... (Organics) together with Orcs (Synthetics) to make a better world. 3. Throw the ring into the fire and everything, including the shire will be destroyed. Additional option after DLC: 4. Destroy the apparatus on your left built by Casey Hudson to tease you, which also causes the whole world to be destroyed.
I actually kind of liked the end. Mass Effect was all about decisions, from the first game we had to make tough choices where basically, either way, you're gonna lose. I think the ending of ME3 actually kept that theme. You chose to destroy the Reapers, which in fairness most players would choose, because you don't play through three games trying to defeat an unstoppable enemy to then not destroy them, but in doing so, you lose some things, Geth, EDI etc. So, although you win, you also lose. I like a game that has the balls to say, you lose!
I can't say i hate endings. They aren't bad, but the problem is that they are not perfect too. After endig three games, tens of hours u get 4 options and u are forced to choose. Previous decisions doesn't really matter and everybody feel strange knowing that those hundreds of choices have no real impact on game. There were many scenes ingame that had to be left unused because of EA influence. Every time i play ME3 i keep thinking: what would they add here if they had more time (like last episode of being in get consensus, where nothing happenes, u just walk forward and i am pretty sure something was intended to be there). There is scene with Anderson at the end which is not included and i am sure there are many others. There are also few things i like about endings. There are no 100% happy endings. In war like this, with bilions of casulties, there simply can't be. Extended cut gave us some visons what happenes after war and i really liked them. If You add indoctrination theory to the ending - i think its satisfying. If not its still pretty good. When You play Leviatan dlc you learn more about history of this crucible SI (damn, i hate this pointless character). And music. "Once and for all" is my favourite game soundtrack, it makes game unforgetable. Because of how i feel every single time i reach ending ME3 is my favourite one (probably unpopular opinion). It wasn't really Bioware who ruined the game. They didn't have to add extended cut and yet they did. I blame EA and now with Battlefront 2 it looks like they are paying the price.
Everything is wanted is to join Cerberus in ME3. In ME2 I wanted to still work for Cerberus. In ME3 to join him (and I hate what they do to Cerberus and TIM). Ok, ending can be like this shit. But with TIM alive.
Idk. It just seems a little too obvious. Not that I expect we'll ever find out. Doesn't explain who murdered Jien Garson. We know the Illusive Man didn't go to Andromeda. The benefactor is always shown with a female voice for some reason, whether that's supposed to be a clue to their identity...? Also they point out they knew something was coming, not specifically the Reapers, the Illusive Man knew what the Reapers were. Sad we'll never get to explore Andromeda's many mysteries. It was an average game at best, but it setup for some awesome DLC stories. :-/
I certainly hope we haven't seen the last of Mass Effect. It's an incredible game series! The original Trilogy was so well thought out. The world was put together brilliantly, it had a history, all the characters had their back stories.
Although TIM is arguably Mass Effect's best villain, I don't feel like that's saying much. They're good villains (the main ones at least), but they're not great villains! Saren may have been right about quite a few things but he's neither a fighter like TIM nor is he as complex as Bioware wants you to think he is (the fact that he's a better person indoctrinated rather than free has to be a knock on him), TIM loses whatever shades of gray he had going for him in ME3, and the Reapers are both OP and become ruined by the final twist at the end. While TIM's final scene did get dragged out by too many lines (and bad ones at that), clunky character movements, as well as making you kill Anderson, his final words, "I tried Shepard!" still ring with me to this day! He may also get some points from me for presenting the Control option as an alternative to the Destroy ending. I just can't understand why the creators added the snag of the synthetic race being wiped out no matter what your score is--and since when did Mass Effect rely on a score?!! I thought that the Paragon route, at least, was intended to show how the utilitarian notions that guided the galaxy were responsible for the messes that the races kept inflicting on each other and to provide a better way! Choosing Destroy seemed to follow those Renegade-ish and utilitarianism notions of sacrificing the few for the many! Even after witnessing Legion's sacrifice, the resulting peace on Rannoch, and EDI's growth! So I just don't see how it fits in with the Paragon route which is supposed to be better as it was from the start! As for TIM, I don't think TIM wanted to control the Reapers as anything other than a human, but if you really want to associate him with the Control choice, then it's the Renegade version of it and not the overall Control choice in general!
With my Paragon Male Shepard, I gave the Collector Base to the Illusive Man. Because if you are Paragon and you gave him the Collector Base, Shepard says this at their encounter: "I gave you that base, to find a way to stop the Reapers. You've failed."
KritoSkywaker Wow!
@@davidnavarro4821
Interesting. Right? 😊
Same here. What does he say if you're renegade?
@@TacticalProjectGaming
Techniquely this: "I've let you study the base, so we can find a way to destroy the Reapers."
I always destroyed but since legendary edition I actually gave Cerberus the base just to try something new and yeah that line was good and also when Jack punches you at Grissom academy it actually makes sense. Plus if you take Javik to Cerberus HQ he has a disgusted reaction if he sees the human reaper.
30:45 the illusive man being elusive
made my day
Seriously. What the hell happened there? Its like he had a stroke. Like hes meant to be our enemy but then he's like. "Wait... You kinda liked us in ME2. I don't have an excuse to be mean."
@@KeybladeWielderXV No no...I think he made an intriuging point. Look at the way he gestures with his cigarette. He's onto somthin.
The Illusive man and Tuchanka are two great examples of good writing, in that the 'paragon' answers aren't always the best, or most-respected by the NPCs.
30:50, I think that was the specific moment where the Illusive Man was indoctrinated.
Lol
No matter what you think of the Illusive Man. He liked Shepard, a lot. Respected him, I'm sure it's safe to assume he saw Shepard as a friend. As a Hero who was able to understand him. I'm sure seeing his frie-- best asset, turn against him really hit the Illusive Man right in the feels. You can tell by how painfully he says "Goodbye, Shepard" here (32:07)
Futhermore, he keeps comparing any of his agents to Shepard (44:00). He's obsessed with the Symbolic Hero he brought back as you can see here too (32:52). When Leng replies that "it won't happen again", TIM seems confident in saying "Hmm. We'll see" almost like he hopes Shepard will survive.
TIM is known to be calm in every situation, never gets that direct like he is here (33:35) "Damn it !", again trying to convince Shepard as a friend would do. Not only with facts but by adding emotions to the plead.
44:40 : Seems like he's stalling Leng on purpose, Shepard isn't only "occupying the Reapers" but also interferes with Cerberus' plans a lot. Again, I see TIM protecting Shepard as long as he can. 45:10 reinforces that feeling once more. He has no problem telling Leng to deal with Miranda should she become an annoyance. But no, not Shepard.
TIM was fully aware of what he did and felt until he started fighting indoctrination when he decided to use implants here 47:56.
I'm wondering now if he did it, being sure it'd work, just to impress Shepard the same way he impressed him with the Sovereign incident and the Collector Base's attack. That's what his answer to Shepard at 53:00 suggests, he *needs* him to "Believe" like it would regain Shepard's trust and respect. Two elements he seems to miss a lot from his friend. Right here 56:08 he's being hit right in his ego, like a lethal blow from Shepard. He not only wants to open the Citadel's arms but also his heart in a way. He realizes that he might lose the fight and has regrets. He wants to be sure that Shepard understands him and remembers him as someone who tried his best.TIM tried to become like Shepard, but his own hero proves him he failed. And failure, that he cannot accept. 57:52 reaffirms, to me, that TIM wanted Shepard to be like him... or rather TIM wanted to be like Shepard, hoping he'd see things his way.
It's just my take on it. Renegade allows you to know more about the Illusive Man, and how to see things like he does. Paragon isn't the way to go. Being pragmatic. Being driven by facts, not emotions and following a mission is the cannon way to play Mass Effect. And nothing people will tell me will convince me otherwise. The secret ending proves it.
God, the contrast between ME2 and ME3 Illusive Man is night and day. After they turned Cerberus from a generic terrorist organisation in ME1 into one of the most morally complicated factions in video game history in ME2, they then let them go right back to being generic enemies for ME3. The Illusive Man ends up just as yet another 'obviously misguided villain'.What a waste.
temmychan Having cerberus have a bunch of grunts and shit was silly. They’re meant to be a black op team gone rogue. Have people like kai leng and stuff sure but don’t make us fight waves and waves of Cerberus. They should have been encountered only very few times. Running into cerberus should have been a HUGE deal, not facing them every time. The illusive man isn’t that bad in the third game though, he’s just become more indoctrinated and if you watch those video clips in his station you can see wtf was really going on with him
Cerberus changes their minds on what they want to be so many times that Shepard shoulda just referred to them as his/her ex
Personally, my headcanon is that their tinkering with reaper technology lead to them being indoctrinated between 2 and 3, hence why hes trying to control them instead of protect humanity, a classic indoctrinated move according to javik and previous experience with saren. It would also explain why so many of them deserted cerberous after that, like refugees fleeing a plague.
Kind of like Zeus in god of war. In the first game he was okay, but after kratos opened pandoras box he became corrupted and went after kratos. Could be the same after they recovered the human reaper.
I know. Even the level of indoctrination should have been better explaiend (people pretend this was explained even though it really wasnt)
Illusive Man looks like he’s Mr. Blue-Eyes from Cyberpunk 2077.
This game is older than Cyberpunk
This character is one big piece of masterful writing
4:04 I love how shepherd describes Jacob. It makes me laugh always.
@showlegacy619 Poor Jacob. He was roasted even before we could get to know his personality properly.
17:24 - The best line
Illusive Man is one of my favourite villains, i was really dissapointed how he was shown in ME3. I didnt really like him being indoctrinated, he was simply too smart to be affected by indotrination. Just imagine being able to have him and Cerberus as ally in the final battle.
Seems like he was already indoctrinated in ME2, those blue eyes weren't exactly subtle. But I do agree with you with how he was shown in ME3. I think they could have made the "he's indoctrinated" really work if he wasn't force-fed unto the player as an evil maniac. Having an option to join Cerberus would've made things so much more interesting. I'm not too sure with the Illusive Man being too smart for indoctrination, as the rules of indoctrination are quite murky, to say the least.
Same as Saren he still has enough will power to commit suicide even with all the reaper implants he has. If only previous choices/dialogs with him weren't pointless or for exemple fate of collector base meant something (we handle him base and he still says we can't make hard choices, etc.). I was also hoping we would get some more info about him in Andromeda, since Cora Harper has same name as him and Cerberus was probably heavily involved in Andromeda initiative. Just another thing that dissapointed me in Andromeda :(
It's true. Makes sense he's already indoctrinated and that's what makes him so intelligent. Jack Harpers (The Illusive Man) background is explained in a comic called Evolution. It basically explains how he got his eyes when he encountered a Reaper artifact during the first contact War.
I don't really think that he is a 100 percent bad guy. He just was wrong all the time about the reapers...and he became insane somehow. Anyway, he is one of my favourite characters i know...and i played a lot of games.
Simoon He's greedy and weak-minded. Intelligence is irrelevant when it comes to indoctrination resistance; it depends on mental strength and will power/determination.
1:48 he noticed a few upgrades? is he talking about a bigger ***** or maybe they added another one
What Bioware did with TIM was great because he **seems** to look like Martin Sheen, and definitely sounds like him. I think a few of the body movements could be tweaked for TIM to be even better, but he's a great character voiced by a Hollywood legend.
I wish they made an option that if you gave Cerberus the collecter base you would stay with them but if you destroyed the base you would stay with the allience
Back in the day, silly younger more naive me thought they'd put out 2 discs, 1 for renegade path 1 for paragon. Get what they did to mainstream it or whatnot into one story, but ya. Pre-ME3 me had me thinking ud be able to utilize the base, go full renegade/evil, give entire planets I guess to turn into Cerberus Human Reapers. If not giant human bots at least something tech or weapon wise.
Was also hoping ud be able to give Morinth entire villages or colonies to sex-sume, turn her into a freaking monster beast that ultimately could sex-kill a Reaper
Sorry for the length, just my thoughts on what could have been hah, take care
I like how much Martin Sheen got into the role, apparently since he doesn't smoke he got into a habit of sucking on a pen in-between recordings
it bithers me how the floor is shiny in 2 but not in 3
Martin Sheen is the fucking man!
Something I discovered while replaying mass effect trilogy again recently is: Seren and Illusive man´s eyes are identical! anyone else notice that? unless the game explains that, i would assume illusive man has been indoctrinated since before we met him in me2
oh my god i'm just trying to find a clip on Thessia with default broshep in
I was kinda wondering were there gonna be some renegade replies coming
Lol he says dont judge me or my metods.
gets idocrinated
illusive man shouldn't have been a villain, just a dynamic character who was pro human like udina. me3 should have let you join Cerberus letting humanity dominate fully by controlling the reapers. its strange how mass effect shifted from humans and aliens to organics and synthetics it made things very black and white. me1 was pretty dark with lots of racism and in 2 and 3 you just see all races on the citadel chilling like they weren't all committing hate crimes two years ago and Shepard can't even be anti alien anymore.
Do you not have the ability to genocide the batarians in 2
it doesnt matter if you save the collector base or not,
When you leave the Collector Base for the Illusive Man isn’t there a scene where you have tons of ships coming to harvest it ?
Only if your crew and shepard die
You only get that scene if Shepherd dies and Joker speaks to the Illusive Man.
3:14 wow. That's a hell of a manipulation comment from Tim. If there was, me3 wouldn't be Shepard doing exactly this.
This took a couple of times listening to this one.
What a well crafted writing story.
Wow, I’ve just noticed, that at first, Illusive Man’s eyes are normal. Later, they become more “robotic”. He became indoctrinated.
Fellow Templar
They’re always robotic in the games.
@@TheAwesome45 yeah, he was always indoctrinated.
They've been that way since his time on Shanxi, around the First Contact War.
I wonder how much they paid Martin Sheen. Worth it.
It's so unreal. They are talking about the subject of EDI, project Lazarus, and the other stuff right in front of the camera as if they had never spoken about it before. It doesn't make sense. If they were planing to use Reaper-tech on their new ship, the guy must have known that, so he wouldn't have talked about it just yet. It's so simplistic, and everything is so mystified that you'll never know what the illusive man is just doing at this moment, you just see one little peace of it while he has countless other plans right at this moment, making him a total superman.
.....huh??
Just goes to show you how overrated Mac Walters is!
@@williamkerfoot8039how is he overrated for creating one of the best videogame stories along with one of the best sci-fi's of all time despite its flaws???
"Overrated" my ass, dog.
@CantRead1 You're talking about Drew Karpyshyn you idiot! His stories for ME and ME2 are Shakespeare compared to that sorry excuse for a piece of dog 💩 he came up with for 3!
@CantRead1 Drew Karpyshyn wrote ME and ME2! His scripts are Shakespeare compared to that dog 💩 "Hack" Walters came up with for ME3!
I can't be the only one who feels like the writing is much thinner when conversing with the Illusive Man as a Renegade.
When choosing Paragon options, the dialogue has an easily identifiable dynamic. It's a clash of two personalities made to work with each other for greater reasons than whether they like each other.
When choosing Renegade, the dynamic should be flipped, and whether or not the Illusive Man wants to be your friend, there should at least be a sense of agreement and faint brotherhood forming between Shepard and TIM. Instead, it feels more like you're missing a bunch of dialogue by choosing a path the developers didn't actually intend you to. Down to the point when, after agreeing with nearly all of each other's decisions, Shepard and TIM depart on puzzlingly hostile terms after the suicide mission.
True, Bioware and evil or pragmatic things in their games usually don't work as well as it maybe should
He was cool in Mass Effect 2, but after all those N7 missions in 3, I was sick of him and Cerberus. Even Oleg.
Nice job talking him down though
I Loved TIM In ME2 But I Hated Bioware Lazy Writing In ME3 By Making Cerberus And TIM Evil Incarnation, I Only Wished To Join TIM In ME3.
Thankyouuuu @Jaguar550
I gave him the base for the first time my most recent playthrough and immediately regretted it (even though I already know what happens) he has such an evil look on his face like a generic movie panto villain rubbing his hand together and twirling his moustache as he looks at the collector base.
the biggest mindfuck is finding out that this guy is also President Bartlet in the west wing
Kent Mansley’s Society Squad series anyone?
Hey Ray are you okay? Haven't uploaded in a while
The videos i'm working on take allot of time + i have a full time job so i can't play the whole day:)
Jaguar550 Ah glad to hear that your still uploading :)
Illusive Man is a hero
Imagine being recruited by the space version of the kkk
In lore wise Cerverus and other extremist pro-human groups are kinda right. Aliens have a really shady story with humans since first contact war where the Turians did a genocide on humans civilian colonies with asteroids without any reason, the attacked the humans just for being aliens breaking a law that they didn't knew it existed, even worse, humanes were put as the bad side in front of the galatic community. The Illusive Man lost his family on those genocides. And the counsil always treated humans as second class, they just want to have humanity on a leash because they fear their potential. Cerverus sees aliens as a trheat to human interests, and every advance aganist them is justified, even if that also means humans lives. I don't like Cerverus or Terra Firma but i can actually understand why they are the way they are. I like the concept and actually makes you think what kind of galaxy will be once the reapers are dead.
Still hate the ending of ME3, no matter what they tried to do with their extended cut DLC or whatever. Can´t believe that so much people, who were about to kill Casey Hudson for that ending, were then absolutely satisfied with the extended cut DLC and didn´t say one word of criticism again. Guys, Bioware successfully indoctrinated you. Cheers.
It´s like Frodo reaching Mount Doom, about to throw the ring into the fire and ending all evil, only to see Sam suddenly turning into some sort of stupid starchild, telling him: "Ok Frodo, you cant´t destroy the ring, so you now have three options:
1. Give me the ring and i build a land of flowing milk and honey for you.
2. Give Sauron the ring an he will merge humans, elves, hobbits... (Organics) together with Orcs (Synthetics) to make a better world.
3. Throw the ring into the fire and everything, including the shire will be destroyed.
Additional option after DLC:
4. Destroy the apparatus on your left built by Casey Hudson to tease you, which also causes the whole world to be destroyed.
I actually kind of liked the end. Mass Effect was all about decisions, from the first game we had to make tough choices where basically, either way, you're gonna lose.
I think the ending of ME3 actually kept that theme. You chose to destroy the Reapers, which in fairness most players would choose, because you don't play through three games trying to defeat an unstoppable enemy to then not destroy them, but in doing so, you lose some things, Geth, EDI etc. So, although you win, you also lose. I like a game that has the balls to say, you lose!
I can't say i hate endings. They aren't bad, but the problem is that they are not perfect too.
After endig three games, tens of hours u get 4 options and u are forced to choose. Previous decisions doesn't really matter and everybody feel strange knowing that those hundreds of choices have no real impact on game. There were many scenes ingame that had to be left unused because of EA influence. Every time i play ME3 i keep thinking: what would they add here if they had more time (like last episode of being in get consensus, where nothing happenes, u just walk forward and i am pretty sure something was intended to be there). There is scene with Anderson at the end which is not included and i am sure there are many others.
There are also few things i like about endings. There are no 100% happy endings. In war like this, with bilions of casulties, there simply can't be. Extended cut gave us some visons what happenes after war and i really liked them. If You add indoctrination theory to the ending - i think its satisfying. If not its still pretty good. When You play Leviatan dlc you learn more about history of this crucible SI (damn, i hate this pointless character). And music. "Once and for all" is my favourite game soundtrack, it makes game unforgetable. Because of how i feel every single time i reach ending ME3 is my favourite one (probably unpopular opinion).
It wasn't really Bioware who ruined the game. They didn't have to add extended cut and yet they did. I blame EA and now with Battlefront 2 it looks like they are paying the price.
Everything is wanted is to join Cerberus in ME3.
In ME2 I wanted to still work for Cerberus. In ME3 to join him (and I hate what they do to Cerberus and TIM).
Ok, ending can be like this shit. But with TIM alive.
And now Casey Hudson is back, and is the only one that's trying to revive the Mass Effect franchise.
God help us all.
Blame Mac Walters instead!
I keep imagining that the illusive man will start talking about minerals or volcanoes Ala, Eyewitness style.
The renegade options for the choice of destroying the reaper base just sound like Shepard is accepting the indoctrination
I wanted to do the synthesis ending even before anything of mass effect hit production.
benefactor?
Idk. It just seems a little too obvious. Not that I expect we'll ever find out. Doesn't explain who murdered Jien Garson. We know the Illusive Man didn't go to Andromeda. The benefactor is always shown with a female voice for some reason, whether that's supposed to be a clue to their identity...?
Also they point out they knew something was coming, not specifically the Reapers, the Illusive Man knew what the Reapers were.
Sad we'll never get to explore Andromeda's many mysteries. It was an average game at best, but it setup for some awesome DLC stories. :-/
@Jamie House Yes, I agree, but I do not think EA Games would drop this hand franchise, well everyone has their opinion.
I certainly hope we haven't seen the last of Mass Effect. It's an incredible game series! The original Trilogy was so well thought out. The world was put together brilliantly, it had a history, all the characters had their back stories.
@Jamie House I think the same too.
It's also been stated before that Cerberus are purely a pro-human group. They wouldn't have any interest in helping alien species to Andromeda.
Why'd you let him have the collector base?
Why wouldn't you?
You get 110 war assets instead of 100
It doesn't matter.
Although TIM is arguably Mass Effect's best villain, I don't feel like that's saying much. They're good villains (the main ones at least), but they're not great villains! Saren may have been right about quite a few things but he's neither a fighter like TIM nor is he as complex as Bioware wants you to think he is (the fact that he's a better person indoctrinated rather than free has to be a knock on him), TIM loses whatever shades of gray he had going for him in ME3, and the Reapers are both OP and become ruined by the final twist at the end. While TIM's final scene did get dragged out by too many lines (and bad ones at that), clunky character movements, as well as making you kill Anderson, his final words, "I tried Shepard!" still ring with me to this day!
He may also get some points from me for presenting the Control option as an alternative to the Destroy ending. I just can't understand why the creators added the snag of the synthetic race being wiped out no matter what your score is--and since when did Mass Effect rely on a score?!! I thought that the Paragon route, at least, was intended to show how the utilitarian notions that guided the galaxy were responsible for the messes that the races kept inflicting on each other and to provide a better way! Choosing Destroy seemed to follow those Renegade-ish and utilitarianism notions of sacrificing the few for the many! Even after witnessing Legion's sacrifice, the resulting peace on Rannoch, and EDI's growth! So I just don't see how it fits in with the Paragon route which is supposed to be better as it was from the start!
As for TIM, I don't think TIM wanted to control the Reapers as anything other than a human, but if you really want to associate him with the Control choice, then it's the Renegade version of it and not the overall Control choice in general!
the illusive man was right