Faster Milling and Longer Cutter Life...Watch this One !!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- If your cutter has ever worn out before the feature was done, maybe you missed something. This video will show you an example of roughing and finishing with the same cutter with no finish sacrifice.
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For the last 5 years since I jumped “head first” into learning machine shop, theory and practice I have learned SO much from a number of teachers and TH-cam creators. One particular attribute stands out though from business owners. Time matters, and more importantly, time is money. One step further, that if you work efficiently, and understand that efficiently also means being mindful of how your tools, cutters and processes are actually doing the work you can maximize all elements and ultimately your bottom line; and achieve the desired outcome. Time IS money, so Joe, when you give us your time I hope that guys appreciate that you could be at home, or with family, or building your business. Instead you give us these lessons, sharing your love of the craft, years of experience and time. I just would like for you to know how much it is appreciated, that you certainly stand out amongst other creators. Thank you as always for your time.
Its flattering comments like this that makes all the time invested, worthwhile. Thanks for taking the time to send it.
Joe you changed my line of thinking when you end mill. Till I watched your channel I would have used up my end mill a lot faster. You are definitely bringing me out of some bad habits. Thanks
Thank you Joe. As a novice machinist working with a hobby bench top milling machine (harbor freight)making accurate deep slots is more challenging and time consuming than I'd like it to be. This is perfect!
Glad to help
Climb milling on the finish pass gives a better finish on the side walls. Did this stuff for over 40 years. Speeds and feeds are what give you the best results.
The 2 finish passes were climb cut. 4 up, and 4 back. I completely agree with your comment.
I have never even turned on a mill or lathe and I enjoy watching every video. I have been a software developer for 35 years and I enjoy seeing how logic is applied whether in code or in milling or other trades. Maybe one day I will get a machine and give some of my logic a try. Thanks for the great videos I have learned a ton.
Keeping your attention for that reason is a compliment. Thanks for watching.
thanks Joe for another informative video that also saves wear an tear on tools
Thank you Joe for an absolutely fascinating mixture of principles and techniques combined together. Indeed, end mills are not excavators and in a home shop, tool life and optimal tool usage are just as important.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video, I learned this method in the 80"s, I call it Chomping, has served me well. Keep up the great content.
Thanks, will do!
I really appreciate your videos, I had a small shop in the mid 1980's, then no machining until now so most is a great refresher and some new stuff. Thanks
Nice one, Joe! Don't know about you, I can sharpen drills, but not milling cutters, so the "drill start" will save me some cutters! Thanks!!! 🙂
Thanks Joe! Your timing is perfect!
Justin? Glad to help. Hope you are well.
I use alot of roughing, hog endmills then finish with regular milling cutters
Another great technique. 👍
Drills are awesome for metal removal. :-)
Thanks very much. Very useful indeed. I have been using climb milling a lot recently, found it much easier on the cutter.
Very cool. I use pluge toolpath a lot in CNC. It´s the best way to clean large volumes of material.
Love that clock it was good to watch you make it
I always wanted to do that and finally did. The project was fun. Thanks.
Just this evening I found a cutter with the exact wear pattern on the lower 1/4" just as you predicted. Chain drilling followed. Then I found this video. Karma!
Now you know why.
Good lesson Joe! Thank you!
Is the cutter actually flexing or all the tiny loose gaps of the machine are coming into play here, creating the "flex"?
As usual very informative.
Thanks for the time and effort (TFTTAE).
Thanks for sharing your valuable insight on machining! Always look 👀 forward to your videos!.
Glad you like them!
You can cut "V" groove. i can sharpen the end of an endmill but not the side so I tend to chip the corners.
Thanks again Joe!
AWESOME STUFF!
Great tip, Joe!
Thanks joe
303?.... Why you no 304? ;) Love the channel Joe. Thanks for all the tips.
Metric stock -- 25.4 nominal size!
Cheers Joe. Appreciate the warning against trying this with 2-flute endmills. My mill is significantly smaller, lower powered (2/3hp) and less rigid than yours and doesn't seem to like plunging (without pre-drilling) with a 4-flute endmill much. It seems to do better with a 2-flute which I would assume is down to improved chip clearance (I have no mist or flood but rig up the shop vac when possible). Am I right in this or is something else going on like rigidity or load per tooth? 16:09 great explanation of why the cutter deflects that way - I've watched your cutter flex video but didn't quite grasp why it flexed that way until now.
I have that problem when trying to key small shafts, go in with a 1/8 endmill to make a 3/16 seat. I always go .110 depth so have to go .055 per.pass or my cutter breaks.
Ya I myself look at machining as how little money time can i put into this (well for right now) and the step over nibble cause you can get or make (acute tool and cutter grinder ) an example and I know enough about it you better get that book if you make one but ya hog away with edges you can sharpen for cheap there's a diamond wheel 2.5 inches on ebay seen it with a 10 mm i got the 20 mm like $20 thinking about quick change tooling for the mill special draw bar with a stack of belville washers to clamp like tormach 3/4 I dont know a clutch peddle on the flor to leave both your hans free for the drill to weldon shank set screw for slip free performance on caarbide shanks i dont want cnc be BS for me ok a plasma table but that dont count ha ha
No spot drill or voodoo needed Anyway Joe, it is a split point drill 😁
Have you seen or heard anything about HR 7468 the bill they are trying to pass that would outlaw milling machines and drill presses or anything else that could be used to finish an 80 % lower !!
Please be more accurate with your language... that is NOT what the bill does. It would ban machines SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED to manufacture firearms. It doesn't even use the term 80% or partial or any other term. Also, a bill with language that loose will never pass. It's a showpiece bill intended to whip people into a frenzy, and make some politician look like a hero to his constituents... and you're falling for it.
We would all go back to knitting quilts if the politicians removed all the mills from this country. The bill probably refers to those mini 'Ghost Gunner' mills that were so controversial a few years back. The CEO ended up in jail on child pornography charges after messing with the ATF.
That was my method for a very long time. And then I got a mister. Using synthetic water-soluble fluid and whatever PSI I need to remove the chips I can bury an endmill and get a great finish and run faster with less heat too.
Heym WD 40 as cutting lube? Kerosene works well on SST? Really? It's great aon Alum but SST? Never tried it.
Joe, I'm a little confused here. In the video you start out by saying not to use the tip of the end mill because you'll wear it out, then you turn around and say to use the tip of the end mill because you WON'T wear it out.
Different feature, if you're doing a slot (goes all the way through a part), wearing out the bottom won't matter for the dimensions you want to keep accurate. HOWEVER, for a pocket (you DON'T punch through) the bottom may be a significant feature you want to keep intact. Like say for instance a keyway.
Orange Dream nicely explained for the deaf and dumb!
Years ago I was assigned a machine next to an old timer who NEVER took greater than .100" deep cuts. He threw tools away every day with only the lowest .100" worn....Any excuse to show off that clock Joe!...I would too.
Ya have to admit...Its a great clock. Thanks for the comment.
...was he secretly fishing those strategically worn tools out of the dumpster, to sharpen up for his home shop? :-)
@@somebodyelse6673 A fair suspicion to suggest but nah, just a senior fellow set in his ways. I was an apprentice too shy to question him at the time.
Well I think the best way to learn as much as possible is to listen and watch everything, but on the other hand to not to believe in everything someone tells you and to make your own thoughts.
I hope the oldtimers dont get it the wrong way, but its about what you can do, and not about how much experience you have.
Hello sir,
We are manufacturing Spacer ring & centering ring, we are facing ovality (out of roundness) issue, we unable to solve. We machined a tube part, 1st we completed od and id before parting off we checked runout is zero, after parting off it come ovality, we unable to solve, please give me a tips to solve
Your jaw pressure is distorting the tube. If you can, plug the end where the chuck grabs it, but don't distort the tube doing so. You can also do the heavy work with heavy jaw pressure, and back off the pressure just before the final cuts. Let me know if this work. I bet it helps.
Could be a job for bored soft jaws, distribute the pressure more evenly around the tube?
@@somebodyelse6673 Problem is, if the tube is out of round, you just shot yourself in the foot by making it round under pressure. It the same situation, only reversed. I had plugs for tubing I cut often, and a large 3 point spider and pads I'd install inside the tube to resist the jaw distortion. Both the plugs, spider and re-chucking the part worked very well.
@@joepie221 - ...that's why you're Joe and I'm not. On the bright side, I learned something not to do :)
Sounds like material stress.
Speaking of cutter management. Do you have any videos about cutter selection? I know its a huge subject. But I bet a guy like you has some great simple ideas for home gamers.
Nice. Reminds me of AvE's video on chain drilling to get effectively overlapping holes using a drill. Do every second hole, then do the remaining holes. Since there's equal amount of material missing on both sides, the drill bit has less of a tendency to walk to the side. What he showed was with a CNC and for saving time on cutting a piece in two but the same technique should work for manual predrilling of a slot with a little finesse.
Overlapping holes with 2 flute drills has ending in tears for me, more than once. I don't do it any more. 3 flutes, or no overlap.
303 is great. Last year, a zinc casting rotted away. This was part of the faucet from our tub filler. This was a pretty expensive model, and no longer made. No parts available. I had to make the part from 303. Whew. Angular milling, circular table for part, and, well, it was a pain. But replacing the faucet involved another (expensive) faucet, a contractor to remove the tub from the foundation built around it, and replacement. A good estimate of $3,000 to have done. But $20 worth of 303, and many thousands in machinery and cutters, and it was done.
My wife thinks I spend too much on this stuff. Nah. I see you have a Bar Z sticker. I just bought the 1200 hardening and tempering oven from him. Good stuff.
Excellent. Also worth mentioning that using the drill to remove most of the material is transferring the wear onto that tool. Drills are much easier to sharpen than an end mill. Dont need a special grinder or jigs. You can just free hand it on a bench grinder.
Agreed. Not the drill Joe was using though, that was a split point drill.
Good quality drill bits are also cheaper than quality end mills as well, unless you use diamond coated drill bits of course LoL
Man... I was about to rough out a huge channel in a large block of steel to make a batch of BXA tool holders. I'm so glad I saw this. What a time saver... Thanks Joe!
Man I literally just went to school on this very scenario in my shop!! I'm having to do a 1/2" deep 3/16" wide slot 1.5" long in mild steel....if I slot back and forth progressively it takes 2 min, if I go full depth and across it takes 2 min, or if I plunge a bunch of times and clean up it takes 2 min lol....but the full depth breaks cutters, the progressive slotting ends up exactly like you said with a crap side finish at the bottom, and the plunging by far the cutter lasts the longest, as axially everything is nice and rigid...only issue with the plunging is I do still get vertical banding in the surface finish on the sides of the slot...the tolerances aren't critical so I just step over slightly and clean them up ......great video!!
Watch my video on cutter flex. It explains how to cheat your initial plunge passes to eliminate those vertical stripes.
I've killed more endmills by trying to baby them, specifically in 300 series stainless, than i have by taking deeper cuts with a smaller step over.
It's a real logic trap for the newer crew...
That's a unique Clock!
You're one hell of a teacher! Thanks
Thanks for the compliment.
More good stuff Joe!
ATB, Robin
as always informative practical useful info thanks, Joe.
Thanks for sharing!
Hi Joe,
Logical explanation at the whiteboard which was backed up with the practical demo at the mill... Enjoyable video... Thank you.
Take care
Paul,,
Glad you enjoyed it. I like starting at the whiteboard if I can. I think it helps.
Thanks for the very useful information Joe. I cant wait to apply some of these techniques and get more from my tooling.
I like your videos because you clearly explain the fundamental 'geometrical' issues and pitfalls that a (hobby) machinist may encounter. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience!
Maybe it is due to my lacking English (or Texan?) skills, but I still haven't been able to 'decode' the way you pronounce your last name in your opening sentence. It certainly doesn't keep me from watching your contributions.
Regards from the Netherlands.
My first name is Joe, and the first 3 letters of my last name are Pie. After that, a bunch of c'z'y'k....people always hesitated at Pie and it stuck.
Somebody needs to send you some fancy 3D printed endmills for your demonstrations at the bench. Those sharpie marked wooden dowels are soo realistic I keep thinking you're going to lose a finger.
Good comment.
Hmm, who do we know that could mill up some aluminum demo endmills... :-)
Note carefully at 6:15 when Joe changes tools and can subsequently make a much heavier cut.
That clock is awesome :) Thanks again for another great shop lesson Professor Pi.
I have a video on how it was made. I'm glad I did it. Its a 'feel good' addition to the shop.
Joe, another great video, Thank You. Please get a microphone like Abom and Keith Rucker so you have audio that is up to par with your video content.
Thank you Joe! Started doing CNC programming/setup/machining on a Hurco CNC mill. I asked what was better.... To go to depth and attack it with the side, or take multiple pecks. Well.... I've been taking multiple pecks... So.... I will try going to depth and stepping over and see how that goes.
I really appreciate the time you take to teach and share your vast knowledge. Have a good day!
The only problem with coming in from the side, as opposed down from the top, is that if you've got a light machine, you run a certain risk of either pulling the end mill out of the collet, or pulling your machine out of tram. You don't seem to get that force with a rougher, only with a finish end mill. My little Taig can take a 0.1"d x 0.1"w cut in 1018 with a 3/8" rougher, but put a finish end mill in there and try to take a 0.2"d x 0.02'w cut, half the MMR, and you'll either pull the head down on its dovetail or force the column to tilt out of tram.
One of these days I'm going to screw up my courage, and drill and ream the hub on that column for a taper pin to lock it in place.
That slopped cut also works if you need to plunge with a non centercutting endmill.
Some times when I can't roll the part and us most of the end mill, like when I'm cutting an inside through profile, I have to peck down.....When I do my final pass and or final comp, I pick a Z that's deeper then the wear depth on the mill from the peck, and do a sweat final clean up roll.......
Fantastic easy to understand for this hobbyist noob.Id love to see a video on speeds/feeds,that is my greatest hurdle right now.
Good stuff Joe, thank you, as always.😎
What make of camera were you using, I liked the battery set up for it, no rechargeable batteries needed. The slot milling you demonstrated is fast and efficient.👍👍
Nikon B500. Its a nice camera, but I plan to use the funds from my Patreon account to get a better one. I would like more control over the focus and an external mic jack.
Joe never disappoints !
Pragmatic arguments with a side helping of education.
Thanks for watching.
The other benefit to side milling as opposed to end milling, is that (if the job allows) you can actually use the top of the end mill. This bit is rarely used, but with a bit of forethought you can make sure you can use it. Two benefits: 1) it's usually a pretty sharp area 2) the cut is more rigid up there, so you can take a bigger bite.
Thanks. I was one of the hundreds of people who sent you email asking about making cuts (big stepover and shallow DOC) versus (small stepover and deep DOC) given the same MRR. This answered the question, and gave me a good slotting technique too. Love your channel - it provides high quality information without a lot of fluff and foo-rah.
Awesome, thank you!
In a word: wonderful.
As always great instruction Joe thanks.
Being pretty new to hobby machining, I’ve often wondered why they don’t make end mills, say, .005” under sized so you can go back and clean up the walls on a slot, but still finish exactly on size. What’s the point of a .375” end mill if you have to take an additional .004” cleanup pass on the walls?
it starts out at the nominal but after it is ground once it will be smaller.
if doing for instance a 1/2 slot you cannot use an on size end mill. even .005 is not undersize enough.
Dimensioning a 1" bar as 25.4mm doesn't make it metric LOL. Good stuff as usual.
But, not so, since the 'standard inch' is taken from the international metric standard, so, really, *any* 'inch' stock is 25.4 mm ;-)
Just joshin' with ya!
Yankee logic. Just go with it for now.
I'm quick to the keyboard to say "thank you Joe for taking the time to share your experience. You help a lot of people. Not many finer things can be said.
if ya gotta leave anything behind, knowledge is not a bad choice. thanks for the comment.
For Slotting, using a Roughing Mill first would be the better option and likely letting you take either a full depth cut or much deeper cuts than when a regular end-mill.
Guy Tech what do you think of that comment Joe? I'd be interested in your opinion on that as I'm sure others would be as well.
Are there any materials that cutting results in chip hardening, thereby the chips become harder than the work piece? I ask this because I never worry about cleaning out chips like I probably should, the scenario I mentioned might damage the work if the chips arent cleaned out thoroughly?
Odd question; I know.
Tool steels typically work harden when you are cutting them too fast. If you use a roughing bit - Sharp one -- you can avoid some of that. Usually the sparks coming out of the hole alerts you to that -- and the purple to Blue chips also. Then use a carbide bit to sharpen up the bottom, and always with coolant every time.
Anne Infurna thanks!!!!
Any of the AR series (Abrasion Resistant) steels will cheerfully eat your endmills if you take too LIGHT of a cut. They work harden from rubbing tools that aren't actually cutting enough material to make a chip. It plays into your question because if you aren't clearing chips out of your cut, the chips easily harden by getting rubbed around along the tool flutes.
AR steels are commonly found in earthmoving machines like bulldozers and agricultural equipment. Also found in a lot of material handling stuff like conveyors, mixers, etc.
Some stainless alloys also work harden like that, makes it difficult to sneak up on a dimension because you have to cut a chip and you have to get the chips OUT.
Hi Joe, been going thru the old videos looking for the lathe center height tool and aligning tailstock, but it seems a lot of videos are missing, where can i find them. I love your videos and they have taught me lots, Heres hoping im just not searching right!
try setting the filter to oldest first and see if you have any luck. Sometimes, the channel just takes time to load.
Exactly how I would have done a deep slot like that. A lot of times when I'm doing a keyway for example that's not at the end of the part, I'll just plunge straight down on my end points and step over with my center cutting, undersized roughing endmill. Then do a full depth cut to size with a finishing endmill that I only use on keys. Cool video thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching.
Wow, that's the first time you've done a video that I actually do the same thing for the same reasons. I've got a cheap Chinese mill/drill and a drill vice but that method works with even a less rigid set up.like mine
Excellent.
Joe -- Curious as to precisely what kind of. cutter you were using for this demo. And with the 303, about how many such slots could you expect to cut before having to replace the cutter?
Its a TIAL 4 flute carbide 3/8 cutter. if this were a production process, it would be best done in a flood of coolant. Once an edge chips, it amplifies the load on the other 3 and things can go south pretty quick. Done correctly, this cutter could last for days run non stop.
I enjoyed this one. Learned a bunch,
Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
👍 thanks for sharing
Hi Joe, if I may, can I suggest you change your camera batteries to Energizer Ultimate Lithium batteries. Theyre a bit more expensive but the life you will get out of them will more than compensate. I buy mine off eBay in bulk but Walmart often has good prices for bulk packs too.
Thanks for the demo. I think I worked out what caused a new 3/4" ,4 flute cutter to self destruct in short order doing a slot cut like you showed. For some reason the end edges just melted in CR steel.
Regards from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦🍌🥋🇺🇦🕊️🇺🇲👍
Please do a video on acoustic treatments for video recordings....
Burn. Thanks for that.
very cool , thanks for the lesson..
Glad you liked it!
Another Good ONE....! Can't believe 10,000 views already, and 1200 thumbs up..... Keep them coming....!
Joe, however did you manage to make an imperial measurement slot in metric material?
;-)
Thanks, interesting video, particularly, for me, seeing how much the tool flex marred the finish in the section where it's "full steam ahead" , compared to the mirror-like finish on the pre-drilled section.
I was wondering if anyone would catch that. Outstanding.
@@joepie221 and not one "unloosen" in today's video.
Ok, what the heck was he doing in my shop this last weekend! I was attempting to mill the shank of an old tool holder and managed to take the edge of a couple of mill cutters because 1) I'm self taught, listen to Joe and Adam and Tom and Marc and Mr. Pete to try and learn how to do this. Thank you Joe for this, to me, timely video.
(Now I'm looking into how to get some tools reground. )
Your whiteboard technique really helps me understand what you are going to do in the machine. Thank you for these informative videos.
Great video as always. Do you do much turning or boring on hard tool steel? M-2/M-4 58-64 rc. Any ideals to stop/minimize push off. Using carbide boring bars and ceramic inserts.
Love your tips man. Keep em coming
You bet.
I just made some parts using this very technique to mill a pocket into a solid piece of steel, I did the drilling first, just like the video shows, I went within .010 of how deep I finally milled the floor of the pocket, did not need to "Z" back'n forth. When doing the finish passes on the sidewalls, I used only light climb (vs.conventional) cuts, made a very clean sidewall.
Joe, another really informative session, thankyou. May I ask what camera you are using? The autofocus and picture quality is impressive.
Super,,fixing to install Tee slots (for my first time) in a 1/2 thick hot roll plate. Have 4 flute end milks, so that a big plus on perdrilling holes first,,thx Joe for the tip,,Nesr
I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Very enlightening and I had thoughts about that recently. That's why as a hobbyist I bought cutters on Ali-express with different lengths of the cutting edge. If you don't have to go deep, a shorter cut will suffice. Thanks for the effort that you keep putting in.
Hi Joe, thank you very much for the lesson and the professional explanation. Good job 👍
Joe you want an apprentice? I'll relocate from Australia. That's saying something atm.
As always, thank you for the excellent advice, and clear explanation of why it works.
Great demonstration Joe, thanks also for the explanation about the zig zag feeding to help us understand exactly what you did.
When I was doing that kind of slot in tool steels like A6, s7 and O1, the chips could become hardened. They could wreak havoc on the cutting edges and will chip out HSS and sometimes carbide too. For that reason, I'd flood with water soluble to keep the slot as clear of chips as I could.
He Joe - still the best tips from a man of practice!
I always drill and saw the material away befor I mill it. Some guys laught about that. But as I always said "what you drill ya dont need to mill".
Keep up the good work and have a nice day!!
Greetings from Austria to Austin!
Is there a way to email you maybe, and pay you for your time, to have you go a little more in depth? Starting at 10:37, when you state that you are taking backlash out, it gets confusing to me, a mere nube. Heck, the motor for my Bridgeport wont be here for a couple more weeks. But, I am a marine mechanic and this video, holes and slots in stainless, is exactly why I have invested in this mill and lathe. I guess I dont understand the taking backlash out if the table is locked as you plunge? That's the main confusing part. I am also confused about the full depth side clean up. In a video several years maybe ago, you were saying that due to tool flex stepping down gets a straighter, more square, side wall of a slot? You went quite in depth about it. I am sure I am missing something, please dont take this as calling out discrepancies. Text lacks sincerity. Maybe I need to watch that tool flex video another 5 times, it's been awhile.
If you spot drill first by 1.25(diameter of mill drill) offset you can link holes and have less milling and more space for chips to go(less re-cutting).