so my trick for 01 is get it screaming hot (to the point where its non-magnetic) then quench in canola oil preheated to about 150f. after straight into temper at 425f for 2 hours twice with a cool down cycle in between. usually end up somewhere around high 50's on hrc scale. hope this helps in thr future. been loving all your videos. thanks for sharing your experience.
The dedicated place, the time spent at unavoidable low brain tasks, the muscular process of contouring the pieces (and process) and much more little things that can help having a un/counscious insight. It is worth considering IMO. Didnt set foot in a workshop in almost 20 year thought ...
As others gave mentioned, you experienced decarb on the surface of the part which is why you were getting softer readings than anticipated. You can do an argon purge as others have suggested but you will blow through TONS of argon extremely quickly. A better alternative, and what is common in the knife making community is to seal the part in a stainless steel foil envelope and stick a 1"x1" piece if paper inside to consume any oxygen left inside the envelope when it ignites at high temperature. I'd also suggest using an air quenched steel like D2 rather than oil quenching. Air quenched steels experience significantly less warping and still hit 60+ HRC no problems.
Hey that is exactly what I do! I heat treat my (very clean/almost sterile) 17-4 and Maraging parts in stainless envelopes with a piece of paper. The heat tint is always a uniform gold and polishes up nice. Regarding his material choice I agree with an air hardening steel. We convinced one of our customers, huge aero company btw, to mainly design tooling with A2 in mind. It is incredibly stable and has minimal dimensional change post HT.
Can't he just use CO2? Dry ice is cheap after all and he doesn't need high pressures, all he needs is for the furnace atmosphere to be purged off oxygen Or would that introduce LOTS of carbon on the surface making it brittle
thats right air quenched steels tend to have less warps. I remember HT my first knifes in D2 with a VERY thin edge like 0.1mm, (by my misteke, knife edge schould be about 1.5-2mm thick on HT) i was sure that there are gonna be some serious waves in the edge but there was none and i was happily suprised.
I wasn't gonna say anything bc I figured it was for workload/flow reasons, but Im SO glad to see the voiceover style making more of a comeback. I love hearing your real-time riffs and all, but it just didn't really feel like that buttery smooth Inheritance Machining video without the narration. I love the balance of it in this video specifically.
Completely agree. Voiceover narration really makes many videos better IMO. Some people don't like it but for those there are other channels, and some creators make a second channel for an ASMR no voiceover version of the same video.
You have no idea how helpful it is to see an actually experienced machinist making dumb mistakes. Gives me the motivation to keep going with my projects
Totally agree. I'm in the middle of some motorbike projects and it's absolutely full of frustrating mistakes.... But seeing his approaches to mistakes really does inspire me to find other ways to either make something or rig something to make something work
I'm sure I speak for all of us in saying "when you have to do it again we want a video of it!" also I got a kick at how you custom built that beautiful oven and then still jerryrig it for the main task you built it for, what a hoot. (though if you told someone you had just bought the thing somewhere they would believe you, the quality of that thing looks great on video at least)
I am not a professional heat treat guy but when they tried to teach us in college, we would wrap critical parts in stainless steel foil before putting them in the oven. This limits the oxygen that can access the part to cause surface damage and creates a carbon rich environment around the part to limit how much carbon leaches out of the part while it gets up to temperature.
My dad used to do that with his 17-4, except he would add busted up bbq charcoal inside the foil to burn any oxygen that got in. He was always so meticulous with folding his foil seams. His ht wasn't ever that beautiful brown color, but it always worked.
You can also mix alcohol with boric acid and cover the piece with that. Never tried in larger pieces but, for small screws, nuts and washers works great, at least for me.
As minor a touch as it is, I absolutely LOVE the fact that the full musical intro motif is back, it really sets the stage for the video and it's been missed the past few! Also also, THANK YOU for subtitling your videos properly rather than relying on the (to put it kindly) inconsistent auto captions, the consideration towards accesibility is really appreciated
I'm a knife maker. Your softness could be a layer of decarb from all the heating cycles. Also you can sometimes straighten things in the temper if you make a jig and slightly over correct in the temper cycles.
I have seen drawings of "quench press" components for bevel gears. I guess when they got heat treated they went wavy or something bad, hence the need to make a couple of pieces of steel to help the gear stay in shape during quenching.
@@fletchro789 for my knives it's as simple as a couple pieces of round stock tacked to a piece of flat stock and a c clamp. The whole thing goes right into the temper oven.
I've seen Alec Steele do a clamped temper and hardening where the end product is clamped in between 2 plates of steel . Id say he should try the stainless and clamp it when he tries again
Hi Brandon at 14:58 the bronze looks like that because it is continuosly extrusion cast. A ram pushes an amount of bronze into a cooling die, allows it to chill a bit, and then forces more molten metal in. normally the extrusion is round , this bar looks like it was milled to rectangular shape. At 00:27 no wise man has ever said let the scale fix it. In a CNC machine ballscrew for example .001" of backlash is considered broken.
A few remarks with you bendy issue: You can straighten steels immediately (10 seconds) after hardening, you should also keep them in a fixture until they are at room temp. So the process would be heat treat until quench, then out from the oil when they are at about 200°C, then into a straightening jig until they are cool (Time window for this is ~5 seconds after quench to ~40 seconds after quench for the straightening attempt, after that it has to be left to cool down to room temperature without any further straightening), then temper. I would highly recommend tempering with the jig, the jig can also be used to correct warps in the shaft during the tempering process by shimming and bending the shaft on the jig during tempering.
Great advice. Also, I couldn't see anyone else mention it but consider ATP-641 or similar as an alternative to the stainless steel foil. Its a paint on anti scale compound.
I really love how your Videos are history that is being completed on our eyes. Most channels just do random builds, your channel shows an adventure towards completing one big build.
I'm so glad that you've came back to voiceovers. I really find your vids extremely calming and you are one of few that can do it (looking at NileRed and Blacktail studio)
The german translation yt spits out for the chapters is awesome... We are back. I'm not dense. Slim dense. It couldn't handle a dense person. Came to my dense. International man of denseness. It doesn't make a dense human. Six dense, no one is richer. Lap dense. Just put it in.
@@owngamesgamer4030Thanks I learned a new word. Had to look up Chatoyancy. But apparently that describes the band you see moving on a surface when you rotate it away from you. These are simply u-shaped milling or burnishing marks that rusted to look like wood grain.
@@SurfCatten gee, does bronze rust? Or is it that the material used for production casting as a continuous process is leaving a residue of iron behind that is rusting?
I wanted to give you a huge thank-you for making accurate subtitles, even for the parts that aren't voiced over/scripted!! It's a huge help for folks like me who have auditory processing issues, and for the Deaf community even more so. :]
I love this channel. I stumbled upon it the day before I had nose surgery about a year ago. The day after, my grandma passed away. This channel helped me through some pretty hard times emotionally. Thank you for all you do.
You definitely have decarb on the surface, which is why it's measuring soft. If you measure the faces you ground after hardening, you should find they are harder than what you previously measured. Next time coat it with an anti scale compound, or rig up argon to flow through the kiln to protect the steel every time you heat it up.
Just wrapping it in steel foil would probably be enough to avoid decarburizing. With a little bit of something to burn off what little oxygen is in the steel envelope. I have a feeling that the argon flow is the more fun solution, tho! :P
"was it worth it? Yeah, it was worth it" I think this summarises pretty well why we are all here watching you make miracles in the shop! Thanks for the fantastic videos!
This is your best video. The engineering process is not easy nor does one regularly get it right the first time. I love that you are forced to compromise on what you want vs what your limitations will allow you to have. Thank you for making this video and if you are forced to do it again, please post the video so we can continue to learn with you.
IIRC there is an old writers rule, that once you get published, you can start playing fast and loose with grammar and structure. (Think Tennessee Williams) Applying this adage to machining, I'd say once this lead screw goes kaput, you could just order a length of ground leadscrew, and then machine and pin/loctite the drive/gear portion of the leadscrew in place. You have earned an easy button sir.
Make sure you get actual heat treating oil like parks 50. Canola oil is not a proper alternative. Different steels also need different speed ratings for the oil, but most should work fine with the one mentioned. I'd recommend the book by Dr Larrin Thomas on heat treatment.
Well, I mean, if you want peak absolute performance, heat treating oils are needed, but it should not return 40HRC after heat treatment, something really did go really wrong.
Always switch off the main power switch before you reach into the furnace.If an SSR fails ( they almost never fail both at once ) and becomes permanently closed (the probability of that happening is not high, but also not zero), the coils will be connected to one phase until you switch off the main power switch. Nice video as always :)
@Nathan_Whaley-g8m Not sure why a cross slide lead screw for a manually operated lathe would need to be hardened. Sure it would be nice, but not necessary.
... As an electronics guy - confirm with an gun that someone isn't lying to you (your temperature measurement for the oven). You could also have temperature drift and issues whether your not heat treating consistently as well as you think.
yeah if you didn't use a type S thermocouple, and instead used a garbage type K, i call you a fool! Type K will fail and drift or be off by a random amount (usually not enough!) but type S will either read "correct" or you will know immediately it is bad
Also coming from a knifemakers background if you are heat treating something that large in oil you need to be using a commercial heat treatment oil. You can get away with smaller parts in cooking oil but will get inconsistent results with larger items in cooking oil. Order some parks 50 or AAA from a knife supply company.
My first job was for a broach manufacturing company. The after heat treat straightening process involved setting the broach on rollers, finding the bent spots and wacking it with a chisel to remove surface stress. I remember being mesmerized by this op as you basically could see the metal flowing back to a straight line
I worked for an off-road suspension manufacturer and we made lots of torsion bars and axle shafts. Every one got induction hardened and straightened on an H press. Pretty standard operation for heat treated shafts.
I think I've figured it out. This channel is superslowmat Similar to superfastmat, but if he took the meds, lived a slower paced life and had a loving wife.
Life is amazing. I have never used a lathe nor made anything in metal yet I find this channel so entertaining. I could probably even talk a little bit of shyte in the local toolshop if they ever let me inside.
I just wanted to say thank you for this entire channel - you've convinced me to learn manual drafting and it's easily become one of my favorite hobbies to plan things out on paper before going to a manual mill / lathe. It's been a much more enjoyable experience to have an extended vacation from my entirely digital life into a series of "no screens around" types of hobbies.
I agree, manual drafting is fun. I have an old Popular Mechanics book, by William F Willard, that is a very good home practice book, "The Art of Mechanical Drawing".
Brandon - you are one patient dude! I'm so glad that you FINALLY made an acceptable leadscrew, after so many heart-wrenching setbacks. Just goes to show how persistence pays off!
If it does happen again please make another video about it. This is not boring at all in fact I think videos that show huge mistakes and every single thing that was done to make the mistake and resolve it is incredibly valuable an entertaining and I'll watch every single one of them multiple times.
This video is a great demonstration of "learn from your mistakes". I felt the pain of some of these through the screen but I was cheering on for the next tries. Precision machining is extremely satisfying, and we all know that.
After tempering you have a few minutes gap whean you can bend back the part. You can also do some kind of a form to keep the part as straight as you can while tempering and it should technically stay like that.
Your kilns controller is a decent one, but it does need the calibration subroutine running a half dozen times once installed to get it calibrated correctly for temperature. That's likely why you're seeing results of low hardness, get a cheap IR thermometer (mine was about 40 i think and can read upto 900c, very accurately which is a bit surprising given the cost) to verify the temperature
In construction I was taught "everyone makes mistakes, a good worker knows how to fix them." I've been in your situation, and learned the most when I stuck it out. Good work!
I’d honestly watch you make this as many times as you want . You always learn something each time and your wife manages to edit it in such a way that it’s very entertaining to watch . Really enjoy every video !
Consider yourself fortunate for having a video reference of the nuances of the experience, who’s shelf life will surely have expired, by the time you have to do this again…
Best part about your channel is that you're a happy dude and family. I was there for the very first video of packing the stuff and hauling it over the mountains...and now you're at 444k subs. Sweet journey bro, and your humor is point perfect. (BTW, I've been lifting more longs...but I ain't yoinking an 80lb vice off a table any time soon!)
I wonder just how hard a cross slide lead screw really needs to be? How about using "Stressproof" (1144) and leaving it as is. Also one can get "prehardened" 4140 that is still soft enough to machine but significantly stronger than "mild"" steel.
After challenges you're supposed to completely "win" in the end! That's basic to crafting the narrative. Thanks for showing reality. A refreshing change and I'm sure helpful for all of those who try and fail to replicate what many on TH-cam appear to do. And obviously a fine choice as it works well for BlackTail Studios too! Winning is good, but so is humility. Combining the two is even better. Also valuable is knowing when something is "good enough".
I literally felt all your pain on this anxiety ridden journey but fair play to you sir you stuck on in there and made a beautiful upgrade/repair. I absolutely love your channel, i have gained so much inspiration and have copied so many of your ideas that I honestly get so excited when a new video drops. Keep up the fantastic work
I, for one, am excited to see your "Replacement Lead Screw (Again)" video in a couple years. It'll be awesome to see what you've learned in that time! This adventure so far has been some awesome content. I love that you're willing to show your mistakes and compromises. There's no better way to learn.
I would also recommend using A2 tool steel in the future for other parts like this (requiring lots of dimensional stability after heat treat). You just take it out of the oven and let it cool to room temp (no quenching) before tempering, so there's very little internal stress. This project is an unbelievable PITA and I commend you sticking to it for us!
I agree. you could also hard Chrome the A2 after heat treat and it would last a lifetime. But fairly costly. I would also suggest 4140 PHT then nitride it. Tough and strong with a hard surface with dimensional changes during nitriding.
If you decided to make another lead screw that isn’t bent, you could try making it from Viscount 44. I recently ran into an issue at work trying to make a 36” long die set from A2 and had tons of issues with heat treat. Viscount 44 is H13 prehardened to 42-46RC. It machines fairly easily and obviously wont require any heat treat after.
Tempering doesn't remove bowing on it's own. It relieves the stress and makes it warp however it is going to warp. That is when you fix it, then harden it If you decide to do something like this again consider encasing the part and surrounding it with charcoal, or an inert gas like Argon to avoid scaling. If the part is not getting as hard as it should be, consider case hardening.
If you redo that part, please make a video about it. The level of precision that you typically go for makes it feel like this is an incomplete job. BTW, where is the box of shame?
This shows, never give up when you start a project. You made up your mind before starting it and you where shure you could make it. Great work and thank you for all the great videos. It makes me believe more in my self that I can do it when I start a project. Thanks.
The Great Saga of The New Lead Screw comes to an end! We all understand that this was neither pure fun nor cheap to achieve but you can always give a kick-ass lecture on a trade school with all that you did and learned in the process.
Its decarbonization. Your core is about 50Hrc but the first few 0.1mm are softer cause of carbon left your steel. Maybe just use 4140 for yor leadsrew. Otherwhise you need to pack it in heattreading foil. I personaly pack some cast iron chips in the foil bag as well and had great results.
Look I gotta be honest I came across your channel by complete accident but god am I happy I did, watching you do this stuff updating you grandfathers machines, not just out right getting new ones is a real way to keep the memories alive keep up your work mate can’t wait to see what’s next
The softness is just a result of decarb. Each time you heat it you cook the carbon out of the surface, making it softer every time. The warp is pretty much unavoidable at home. Even the professionals with all the right gear like molten salt baths, huge quench tanks etc have that problem, just to a lesser degree. Preventing the decarb isn't too hard, you can heat treat in a stainless pouch, just remove it before the quench. Or heat treat the final part just once and don't worry about it. If you want to correct that warp, do it in the tempering cycle. Basically, two slabs of steel a good bit larger than the shaft, cut Vs down middle of both such that the various diameters are supported and then squash the shaft between them so that it's held straight. The slabs need to be substantial enough that it's the shaft that bends, not the slabs. Basically, go into the oven for an hour or so for initial tempering, at that point you can pull it back out and crank it straight while it's hot and then back in for another 3-4hrs. If you're not comfortable with the amount of stress you're putting on as you straighten it, just go halfway and give it another hour before going all the way. Cool in the oven when it's done. It should come out almost perfect. If you want it straighter, you can shim it with pieces of coke can to bias it so that the spring back brings it in perfectly. Stress will relieve during tempering, it just takes time, so all you're doing is applying that stress to correct the warp, then allowing it to dissipate in the temper cycle, leaving it straight when completed. There's also no reason not to temper it multiple times. The final hardness is a function of temperature, so if it comes up to the same temp each time there's no change to the hardness once you've left it long enough to reach that hardness. 4hrs or 8hrs makes no difference to hardness, it just gives more time for stress relief. It also makes no difference if it's done in one cycle or three. If you've the desire to, there's no reason you can't take the shaft back out of the lathe and temper it again now to straighten it. It's not too late.
Brandon, we need more videos, the sheer joy in watching your interesting machining mistakes is fabulous. It's like tuning in and watching an apprentice looking for the left-handed micrometer or a bucket of steam. Please include your lovely wife in all the vids from now on, she is so funny, it's like she is your forman criticizing your work she is a content machine. Don't give up you do somethings very nice and I always check your channel to see if there are any new side projects.
Education is expensive. Everyone understands that college costs money and books cost money. It takes a bit more thought to understand that some knowledge can only be gained by trying to do the work and failing. This cost time and materials which can be as costly as a college course to gain similar amounts of skill.
@@troycongdon "t takes a bit more thought to understand that some knowledge can only be gained by trying to do the work and failing" it can only be gained by trying because nobody brothers to record them somewhere, to be able to pass it down.
I would say that doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results, AND not learning from the mistakes made is what defines insanity. Trial and error is how we refine our skills, and learn what works.
Incredibly happy that this video uses the old editing style we've come to know and love. Don't get me wrong, the new one was nice, but there's just something so unique, relaxing and beautiful about the old style. This was a great video, thank you.
Happy to see a video showing how real machinist projects tend to go. Tool and die experience tidbits. While most of the time you can ramp strait to the austenitizeing, if your aiming for precision you should bring the part up to a lower preheat temp. Let the part normalize to that temp before ramping it to cook temp. O-1 it would be around 650-700C. It adds a lot of time to the cycle, but it helps keep the stress down by limiting the differential expansion between the inside and out side of the part. Also with your oven being sat up on end the thermocouple would be at the bottom of the chamber.... So while it was at the proper temp at the bottom of the chamber, the top was likely much hotter, probably even exceeding the max heat treatment temp at the top. That was likely part of your hardness issue, and this would have also shown up in the draw backs as well, leading to lower than intended hardness. The multiple heat treatment attempts after would have just continued to decarb the part making that number drop even more.
A little tip from a blacksmith, for straightening heat-treated pieces, grab a block of wood and a wood mallet and hit the piece on the block with the mallet until it's straight. It doesn't damage the piece at all. Hope this helps.
hey you can use tempering to straighten the lead screw at the same time! your earlier attempt to bend it straight was when cold, which is why it broke. bending cold requires you to bend past elastic deformation to cause permanent changes in shape, so you have to bend past straight by a large margin. if the desired shape is held during the tempering process, the heat makes the steel relax into the position its held at. so you could clamp the screw into the inside of a straight chunk of angle iron and chuck the whole thing in the oven for the temper. I've done this with knives, just clamping them to a hunk of unistrut.
![ค้าง (STILL) - GEMINI [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ftxx3hk5vkU/mqdefault.jpg)
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Love your videos man!
You shaking your butt wasn't on my 2024 bingo card
You know what could solve the warpage issues? Magic Nut the thing with some loctite lol.
so my trick for 01 is get it screaming hot (to the point where its non-magnetic) then quench in canola oil preheated to about 150f. after straight into temper at 425f for 2 hours twice with a cool down cycle in between. usually end up somewhere around high 50's on hrc scale. hope this helps in thr future. been loving all your videos. thanks for sharing your experience.
I’m pretty straight but that’s a great butt.
It's normal for the shaft to sometimes not get hard. It happens to everyone man.
also, a slight bend is beautiful and natural
😄
LOL...how to wipe/clean round machined parts and not look weird.
It may be short! But it sure is skinny!
They have pills for that sort of thing.
you know... i think it's no coincidence that problems started accumulating after the drafting table went away.....
The dedicated place, the time spent at unavoidable low brain tasks, the muscular process of contouring the pieces (and process) and much more little things that can help having a un/counscious insight. It is worth considering IMO. Didnt set foot in a workshop in almost 20 year thought ...
I concur. That's what got me hooked on the channel.
+1
Upvote for drafting table!
I agree, thats an art, and one of the reasons I really like this channel. 👍
As others gave mentioned, you experienced decarb on the surface of the part which is why you were getting softer readings than anticipated. You can do an argon purge as others have suggested but you will blow through TONS of argon extremely quickly. A better alternative, and what is common in the knife making community is to seal the part in a stainless steel foil envelope and stick a 1"x1" piece if paper inside to consume any oxygen left inside the envelope when it ignites at high temperature.
I'd also suggest using an air quenched steel like D2 rather than oil quenching. Air quenched steels experience significantly less warping and still hit 60+ HRC no problems.
Hey that is exactly what I do! I heat treat my (very clean/almost sterile) 17-4 and Maraging parts in stainless envelopes with a piece of paper. The heat tint is always a uniform gold and polishes up nice.
Regarding his material choice I agree with an air hardening steel. We convinced one of our customers, huge aero company btw, to mainly design tooling with A2 in mind. It is incredibly stable and has minimal dimensional change post HT.
Can't he just use CO2? Dry ice is cheap after all and he doesn't need high pressures, all he needs is for the furnace atmosphere to be purged off oxygen
Or would that introduce LOTS of carbon on the surface making it brittle
thats right air quenched steels tend to have less warps. I remember HT my first knifes in D2 with a VERY thin edge like 0.1mm, (by my misteke, knife edge schould be about 1.5-2mm thick on HT) i was sure that there are gonna be some serious waves in the edge but there was none and i was happily suprised.
Very true. A2 would be a much better choice.
Very insightful! Thank you good sir!
I wasn't gonna say anything bc I figured it was for workload/flow reasons, but Im SO glad to see the voiceover style making more of a comeback. I love hearing your real-time riffs and all, but it just didn't really feel like that buttery smooth Inheritance Machining video without the narration. I love the balance of it in this video specifically.
🙏
Completely agree. Voiceover narration really makes many videos better IMO. Some people don't like it but for those there are other channels, and some creators make a second channel for an ASMR no voiceover version of the same video.
Completely agree also the intro wasn't cut short this time. Love the little intro music.
True, I completely agree, its well balanced in this specific video.
Agree 100%. It was nice hearing IM and his wife be adorable, but I did miss the Appalachian Clickspring voice.
I know that you prefer the new live story telling style from the recent videos but damn am I so happy to see the old editing style back thank you
🙏
Yeah me too, I can enjoy both but the old style ist what made me fall in love with the channel
100% agree with this
Same, I felt bad that I commented on previous videos before saying I didn't like his new style. Glad to see him trying this one again!
You have no idea how helpful it is to see an actually experienced machinist making dumb mistakes. Gives me the motivation to keep going with my projects
It's the ones that make the "dumb mistakes" that become "experienced".
Totally agree. I'm in the middle of some motorbike projects and it's absolutely full of frustrating mistakes.... But seeing his approaches to mistakes really does inspire me to find other ways to either make something or rig something to make something work
"Experienced" just means you've made enough dumb mistakes to learn how to not repeat them.
Oh right on👍👍👍
@@CandidZulu Made the mistakes and learned from them that is. "The master has failed more times than the student has tried"
I'm sure I speak for all of us in saying "when you have to do it again we want a video of it!"
also I got a kick at how you custom built that beautiful oven and then still jerryrig it for the main task you built it for, what a hoot.
(though if you told someone you had just bought the thing somewhere they would believe you, the quality of that thing looks great on video at least)
I am not a professional heat treat guy but when they tried to teach us in college, we would wrap critical parts in stainless steel foil before putting them in the oven. This limits the oxygen that can access the part to cause surface damage and creates a carbon rich environment around the part to limit how much carbon leaches out of the part while it gets up to temperature.
My dad used to do that with his 17-4, except he would add busted up bbq charcoal inside the foil to burn any oxygen that got in. He was always so meticulous with folding his foil seams. His ht wasn't ever that beautiful brown color, but it always worked.
You can also mix alcohol with boric acid and cover the piece with that. Never tried in larger pieces but, for small screws, nuts and washers works great, at least for me.
"I did not ask you for your guidance, I asked you for an audience."
That cracked me up harder than I've laughed in quite a while.
I was once told that when someone offered unsolicited advice, the task became theirs and no longer your responsibility.
"It's so hot it's cold"
- "that makes zero sense"
Leidenfrost 😊
As minor a touch as it is, I absolutely LOVE the fact that the full musical intro motif is back, it really sets the stage for the video and it's been missed the past few!
Also also, THANK YOU for subtitling your videos properly rather than relying on the (to put it kindly) inconsistent auto captions, the consideration towards accesibility is really appreciated
I'm a knife maker. Your softness could be a layer of decarb from all the heating cycles. Also you can sometimes straighten things in the temper if you make a jig and slightly over correct in the temper cycles.
Exactly what I was thinking. although, straightening a round object surely isnt easy!
I have seen drawings of "quench press" components for bevel gears. I guess when they got heat treated they went wavy or something bad, hence the need to make a couple of pieces of steel to help the gear stay in shape during quenching.
@@fletchro789 for my knives it's as simple as a couple pieces of round stock tacked to a piece of flat stock and a c clamp. The whole thing goes right into the temper oven.
I've seen Alec Steele do a clamped temper and hardening where the end product is clamped in between 2 plates of steel . Id say he should try the stainless and clamp it when he tries again
I wonder if pairing that with case hardening could work? Like set it up in the sealed case hardening box, pressed in a jig to straighten it?
Hi Brandon at 14:58 the bronze looks like that because it is continuosly extrusion cast. A ram pushes an amount of bronze into a cooling die,
allows it to chill a bit, and then forces more molten metal in. normally the extrusion is round , this bar looks like it was milled to rectangular shape.
At 00:27 no wise man has ever said let the scale fix it. In a CNC machine ballscrew for example .001" of backlash is considered broken.
I did not know this!
"Enough foreplay, let's put it in" .... I'm definitely going to use that line with my lady tonight
make sure you polish that shaft before putting it in
@@iuliancalin22 I wouldn't use diamond paste.
"If i have a shaft that's bent, it damn well be hard."
For us without a lady we will resort to lapping.
My GF sayd that once when we had the strap new, got me laughting like hell.
19:36 - I dunno man, if you make another one in 5 years, I'd love to see what changes you make to your process.
i presonnaly like watching the redoing of the same part with an improved process each time,its like watching learning happen
It’s gotta be said: This is one of the best channels on TH-cam. It is criminal that the sub count ends in a K and not an M
I'm laughing out loud watching you make your own gear cutters from scratch yet you can't be bothered to use a funnel to pour the oil in that tube LMAO
Need a planisher if your going to make your own funnel 😁
A few remarks with you bendy issue: You can straighten steels immediately (10 seconds) after hardening, you should also keep them in a fixture until they are at room temp.
So the process would be heat treat until quench,
then out from the oil when they are at about 200°C,
then into a straightening jig until they are cool (Time window for this is ~5 seconds after quench to ~40 seconds after quench for the straightening attempt, after that it has to be left to cool down to room temperature without any further straightening),
then temper.
I would highly recommend tempering with the jig, the jig can also be used to correct warps in the shaft during the tempering process by shimming and bending the shaft on the jig during tempering.
Great advice. Also, I couldn't see anyone else mention it but consider ATP-641 or similar as an alternative to the stainless steel foil. Its a paint on anti scale compound.
I really love how your Videos are history that is being completed on our eyes. Most channels just do random builds, your channel shows an adventure towards completing one big build.
the wood pattern on the brass is from continuous draw casting. they can basically cast forever pulling it out the bottom of the mold.
I'm so glad that you've came back to voiceovers. I really find your vids extremely calming and you are one of few that can do it (looking at NileRed and Blacktail studio)
🙏
Second this
Agreed, can I also recommend Clickspring and New Yorkshire Workshop as they may well be right up your street
Totally agree. Blacktail is a favorite of mine
I’ll third that statement. I missed the voiceovers.
The german translation yt spits out for the chapters is awesome...
We are back.
I'm not dense.
Slim dense.
It couldn't handle a dense person.
Came to my dense.
International man of denseness.
It doesn't make a dense human.
Six dense, no one is richer.
Lap dense.
Just put it in.
Me: That's some interesting looking wood.
"Someone, please tell me why that looks like wood."
Oh
i legit thought it was a pen turning blank at first
same
same all the chatoyancy just tricks the shit out of your brain
@@owngamesgamer4030Thanks I learned a new word. Had to look up Chatoyancy. But apparently that describes the band you see moving on a surface when you rotate it away from you. These are simply u-shaped milling or burnishing marks that rusted to look like wood grain.
@@SurfCatten gee, does bronze rust? Or is it that the material used for production casting as a continuous process is leaving a residue of iron behind that is rusting?
I wanted to give you a huge thank-you for making accurate subtitles, even for the parts that aren't voiced over/scripted!! It's a huge help for folks like me who have auditory processing issues, and for the Deaf community even more so. :]
Don’t worry I would still watch you make another one
next time he would probably make a totally new cross-slide, can choose any thread he wants, maybe with 2 "simpler" shafts (if that is possible)
I love this channel. I stumbled upon it the day before I had nose surgery about a year ago. The day after, my grandma passed away. This channel helped me through some pretty hard times emotionally. Thank you for all you do.
You definitely have decarb on the surface, which is why it's measuring soft. If you measure the faces you ground after hardening, you should find they are harder than what you previously measured. Next time coat it with an anti scale compound, or rig up argon to flow through the kiln to protect the steel every time you heat it up.
Just wrapping it in steel foil would probably be enough to avoid decarburizing. With a little bit of something to burn off what little oxygen is in the steel envelope.
I have a feeling that the argon flow is the more fun solution, tho! :P
I'm reminded of This Old Tony's foray into a heat treatment oven, and he bought a simple kit that allowed the flow of argon into his oven.
“Was it worth it?” Hell yes, and we got to enjoy an excellent video as a result. Thank you. 👏👏👍😀
@@bjrn-oskarrnning2740 Argon flow if the pro/expensive solution but if you want to make it cheap, steel foil it is.
"was it worth it? Yeah, it was worth it"
I think this summarises pretty well why we are all here watching you make miracles in the shop! Thanks for the fantastic videos!
This is your best video. The engineering process is not easy nor does one regularly get it right the first time. I love that you are forced to compromise on what you want vs what your limitations will allow you to have. Thank you for making this video and if you are forced to do it again, please post the video so we can continue to learn with you.
IIRC there is an old writers rule, that once you get published, you can start playing fast and loose with grammar and structure. (Think Tennessee Williams) Applying this adage to machining, I'd say once this lead screw goes kaput, you could just order a length of ground leadscrew, and then machine and pin/loctite the drive/gear portion of the leadscrew in place. You have earned an easy button sir.
This Lead screw "side project" is an absolut fever dream
Your frustration is palpable and contagious. Nice work and perseverance.
Make sure you get actual heat treating oil like parks 50. Canola oil is not a proper alternative. Different steels also need different speed ratings for the oil, but most should work fine with the one mentioned. I'd recommend the book by Dr Larrin Thomas on heat treatment.
Well, I mean, if you want peak absolute performance, heat treating oils are needed, but it should not return 40HRC after heat treatment, something really did go really wrong.
@@blovarsk1069Probably just decarb, should be hard under the surface, which is pointless in this case...
@@LSknivesofficial Good point, this part should benefit from "case hardening" if anything. But since it's a hobby shop, I doubt it needs that even.
Always switch off the main power switch before you reach into the furnace.If an SSR fails ( they almost never fail both at once ) and becomes permanently closed (the probability of that happening is not high, but also not zero), the coils will be connected to one phase until you switch off the main power switch. Nice video as always :)
Too funny. I was just redoing the exact same part. Only ran into your video by chance, wasn't looking lol
Do yourself a favor and don't try and harden it.
@Nathan_Whaley-g8m Not sure why a cross slide lead screw for a manually operated lathe would need to be hardened. Sure it would be nice, but not necessary.
@@BillyBob-si2db I probably should have mentioned in the video but the original screw was at ~HRC50 so I was aiming for that. Poorly I might add haha
@InheritanceMachining Your videos are awesome, and you do a fantastic job. Keep it up.
Google knows ooooooooo
Your wife is an editing genius; love her work!
... As an electronics guy - confirm with an gun that someone isn't lying to you (your temperature measurement for the oven). You could also have temperature drift and issues whether your not heat treating consistently as well as you think.
This is good advice. My heat treat oven always fesses up when I start waving the glock around.
yeah if you didn't use a type S thermocouple, and instead used a garbage type K, i call you a fool! Type K will fail and drift or be off by a random amount (usually not enough!) but type S will either read "correct" or you will know immediately it is bad
I like how low the speed of the lathe is. Other machinists spray coolant into low earth orbit, but here it just calmly drips down.
Also coming from a knifemakers background if you are heat treating something that large in oil you need to be using a commercial heat treatment oil. You can get away with smaller parts in cooking oil but will get inconsistent results with larger items in cooking oil. Order some parks 50 or AAA from a knife supply company.
My first job was for a broach manufacturing company.
The after heat treat straightening process involved setting the broach on rollers, finding the bent spots and wacking it with a chisel to remove surface stress.
I remember being mesmerized by this op as you basically could see the metal flowing back to a straight line
I worked for an off-road suspension manufacturer and we made lots of torsion bars and axle shafts. Every one got induction hardened and straightened on an H press. Pretty standard operation for heat treated shafts.
I think I've figured it out.
This channel is superslowmat
Similar to superfastmat, but if he took the meds, lived a slower paced life and had a loving wife.
Life is amazing. I have never used a lathe nor made anything in metal yet I find this channel so entertaining. I could probably even talk a little bit of shyte in the local toolshop if they ever let me inside.
Man I love your content. The great editing, your humour and seeing you overcome challenges as I strive to do as a machinist as well, I love it!
I just wanted to say thank you for this entire channel - you've convinced me to learn manual drafting and it's easily become one of my favorite hobbies to plan things out on paper before going to a manual mill / lathe. It's been a much more enjoyable experience to have an extended vacation from my entirely digital life into a series of "no screens around" types of hobbies.
I agree, manual drafting is fun. I have an old Popular Mechanics book, by William F Willard, that is a very good home practice book, "The Art of Mechanical Drawing".
Yes, the long music intro is backkk
Brandon - you are one patient dude! I'm so glad that you FINALLY made an acceptable leadscrew, after so many heart-wrenching setbacks. Just goes to show how persistence pays off!
Welcome to my world. I work with machines so old I have to make the replacement parts so I'm used to seeing this kind of work done.
Congratulations and best regards 😊.
Yeah...machines so old, you aren't in posession of them, you are only the current User...
You make me feel better about how much I redo in my shop. Thank you for doing what you do and posting how you post.
If it does happen again please make another video about it. This is not boring at all in fact I think videos that show huge mistakes and every single thing that was done to make the mistake and resolve it is incredibly valuable an entertaining and I'll watch every single one of them multiple times.
This video is a great demonstration of "learn from your mistakes". I felt the pain of some of these through the screen but I was cheering on for the next tries. Precision machining is extremely satisfying, and we all know that.
Often, it's not about it making sense (practically, economically, temporally) to do something, it's about how doing it makes you feel.
After tempering you have a few minutes gap whean you can bend back the part. You can also do some kind of a form to keep the part as straight as you can while tempering and it should technically stay like that.
What happens with the steel after a few minutes?
@@CandidZulu its not gonna be as "bendable" and just might crack.
Your kilns controller is a decent one, but it does need the calibration subroutine running a half dozen times once installed to get it calibrated correctly for temperature. That's likely why you're seeing results of low hardness, get a cheap IR thermometer (mine was about 40 i think and can read upto 900c, very accurately which is a bit surprising given the cost) to verify the temperature
It's more probably just decarb and the oil.
In construction I was taught "everyone makes mistakes, a good worker knows how to fix them." I've been in your situation, and learned the most when I stuck it out. Good work!
This is the best day ever, you had finally restored the lathe, while Curtis from cutting edge engineering made a fantastic welding station.
Maybe Brandon can convince Adam Savage to visit him too!
@@crichtonbruce4329 Let's hope it.
I’d honestly watch you make this as many times as you want . You always learn something each time and your wife manages to edit it in such a way that it’s very entertaining to watch . Really enjoy every video !
16:00 - there is a distinct lack of chamfer here.
Consider yourself fortunate for having a video reference of the nuances of the experience, who’s shelf life will surely have expired, by the time you have to do this again…
Best part about your channel is that you're a happy dude and family. I was there for the very first video of packing the stuff and hauling it over the mountains...and now you're at 444k subs. Sweet journey bro, and your humor is point perfect. (BTW, I've been lifting more longs...but I ain't yoinking an 80lb vice off a table any time soon!)
I wonder just how hard a cross slide lead screw really needs to be? How about using "Stressproof" (1144) and leaving it as is. Also one can get "prehardened" 4140 that is still soft enough to machine but significantly stronger than "mild"" steel.
After challenges you're supposed to completely "win" in the end! That's basic to crafting the narrative. Thanks for showing reality. A refreshing change and I'm sure helpful for all of those who try and fail to replicate what many on TH-cam appear to do. And obviously a fine choice as it works well for BlackTail Studios too! Winning is good, but so is humility. Combining the two is even better. Also valuable is knowing when something is "good enough".
I cannot express just how much I love this channel.
I literally felt all your pain on this anxiety ridden journey but fair play to you sir you stuck on in there and made a beautiful upgrade/repair. I absolutely love your channel, i have gained so much inspiration and have copied so many of your ideas that I honestly get so excited when a new video drops. Keep up the fantastic work
This is the best journey since LOTR. One lead screw to rule them all. I am here for it.
I, for one, am excited to see your "Replacement Lead Screw (Again)" video in a couple years. It'll be awesome to see what you've learned in that time!
This adventure so far has been some awesome content. I love that you're willing to show your mistakes and compromises. There's no better way to learn.
My guy, I would definitely watch you make another!
Good job man! Also, I am sure you realize this whole deal was a great learning experience. Now I can look forward to your next project.
I would also recommend using A2 tool steel in the future for other parts like this (requiring lots of dimensional stability after heat treat). You just take it out of the oven and let it cool to room temp (no quenching) before tempering, so there's very little internal stress.
This project is an unbelievable PITA and I commend you sticking to it for us!
I just scrolled to see if anyone else was suggesting air cooling steel, I 100% agree it could help to try A2 or D2 if he was to try this again
@@fang909 D2 and coolant are not a good mix, trust me.
@@CothranMike Wouldn't O1 corrode more because of the lower chromium content? Asking because I really don't know
@CothranMike d2 and coolant dont mix? I think i have something to tell everyone at the die shop i work at, if that's the case.
I agree. you could also hard Chrome the A2 after heat treat and it would last a lifetime. But fairly costly. I would also suggest 4140 PHT then nitride it. Tough and strong with a hard surface with dimensional changes during nitriding.
If you decided to make another lead screw that isn’t bent, you could try making it from Viscount 44.
I recently ran into an issue at work trying to make a 36” long die set from A2 and had tons of issues with heat treat.
Viscount 44 is H13 prehardened to 42-46RC. It machines fairly easily and obviously wont require any heat treat after.
Tempering doesn't remove bowing on it's own. It relieves the stress and makes it warp however it is going to warp. That is when you fix it, then harden it
If you decide to do something like this again consider encasing the part and surrounding it with charcoal, or an inert gas like Argon to avoid scaling. If the part is not getting as hard as it should be, consider case hardening.
Your ads are my favorite of any channel. The videos as a whole are what I look forward to most on TH-cam.
If you redo that part, please make a video about it. The level of precision that you typically go for makes it feel like this is an incomplete job. BTW, where is the box of shame?
I have no idea why but of all your videos this one really connects; it’s like I’m watching me learn. Love to know others mess up just like !
The inro is back!! Yay!! :)
This shows, never give up when you start a project. You made up your mind before starting it and you where shure you could make it. Great work and thank you for all the great videos. It makes me believe more in my self that I can do it when I start a project. Thanks.
You were rapidly reaching, in southern parlance, "Bless [his] heart" levels of oof in that video.
Lord have mercy...
You've become my comfort channel over the last year. Your voice and the sounds of machining just relax me.
0:13 bent shaft is normal for some
1:46 relieving a shaft's inner tension so as not to have it release unintentionally is also very important...
Also 2:56 three thou' of runout on an 18" shaft is the kinda bend I'm dealing with personally
The Great Saga of The New Lead Screw comes to an end!
We all understand that this was neither pure fun nor cheap to achieve but you can always give a kick-ass lecture on a trade school with all that you did and learned in the process.
The warp is probably why there is no backlash
I really like the shot at 10:17. It nicely shows the effort you put into fixturering everything.
18:45 that's what she said
Its decarbonization. Your core is about 50Hrc but the first few 0.1mm are softer cause of carbon left your steel. Maybe just use 4140 for yor leadsrew. Otherwhise you need to pack it in heattreading foil. I personaly pack some cast iron chips in the foil bag as well and had great results.
Mistakes are just an opportunity for additional content
Look I gotta be honest I came across your channel by complete accident but god am I happy I did, watching you do this stuff updating you grandfathers machines, not just out right getting new ones is a real way to keep the memories alive keep up your work mate can’t wait to see what’s next
The softness is just a result of decarb. Each time you heat it you cook the carbon out of the surface, making it softer every time.
The warp is pretty much unavoidable at home. Even the professionals with all the right gear like molten salt baths, huge quench tanks etc have that problem, just to a lesser degree.
Preventing the decarb isn't too hard, you can heat treat in a stainless pouch, just remove it before the quench. Or heat treat the final part just once and don't worry about it.
If you want to correct that warp, do it in the tempering cycle.
Basically, two slabs of steel a good bit larger than the shaft, cut Vs down middle of both such that the various diameters are supported and then squash the shaft between them so that it's held straight. The slabs need to be substantial enough that it's the shaft that bends, not the slabs.
Basically, go into the oven for an hour or so for initial tempering, at that point you can pull it back out and crank it straight while it's hot and then back in for another 3-4hrs. If you're not comfortable with the amount of stress you're putting on as you straighten it, just go halfway and give it another hour before going all the way.
Cool in the oven when it's done. It should come out almost perfect.
If you want it straighter, you can shim it with pieces of coke can to bias it so that the spring back brings it in perfectly.
Stress will relieve during tempering, it just takes time, so all you're doing is applying that stress to correct the warp, then allowing it to dissipate in the temper cycle, leaving it straight when completed.
There's also no reason not to temper it multiple times. The final hardness is a function of temperature, so if it comes up to the same temp each time there's no change to the hardness once you've left it long enough to reach that hardness. 4hrs or 8hrs makes no difference to hardness, it just gives more time for stress relief. It also makes no difference if it's done in one cycle or three.
If you've the desire to, there's no reason you can't take the shaft back out of the lathe and temper it again now to straighten it. It's not too late.
Brandon, we need more videos, the sheer joy in watching your interesting machining mistakes is fabulous. It's like tuning in and watching an apprentice looking for the left-handed micrometer or a bucket of steam. Please include your lovely wife in all the vids from now on, she is so funny, it's like she is your forman criticizing your work she is a content machine. Don't give up you do somethings very nice and I always check your channel to see if there are any new side projects.
_sunk cost_ is only a fallacy if you learn nothing in the process.
Education is expensive. Everyone understands that college costs money and books cost money. It takes a bit more thought to understand that some knowledge can only be gained by trying to do the work and failing. This cost time and materials which can be as costly as a college course to gain similar amounts of skill.
Amen!!@@troycongdon
@@troycongdon "t takes a bit more thought to understand that some knowledge can only be gained by trying to do the work and failing" it can only be gained by trying because nobody brothers to record them somewhere, to be able to pass it down.
@@norbertnagy5514 vicarious learning is overrated...
ok, it's the first time i like a video bc of how smooth the sponsoring was
You could try tempering it in between two plates of aluminum to get bows out
I would say that doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results, AND not learning from the mistakes made is what defines insanity. Trial and error is how we refine our skills, and learn what works.
Incredibly happy that this video uses the old editing style we've come to know and love. Don't get me wrong, the new one was nice, but there's just something so unique, relaxing and beautiful about the old style. This was a great video, thank you.
Happy to see a video showing how real machinist projects tend to go.
Tool and die experience tidbits.
While most of the time you can ramp strait to the austenitizeing, if your aiming for precision you should bring the part up to a lower preheat temp. Let the part normalize to that temp before ramping it to cook temp. O-1 it would be around 650-700C. It adds a lot of time to the cycle, but it helps keep the stress down by limiting the differential expansion between the inside and out side of the part. Also with your oven being sat up on end the thermocouple would be at the bottom of the chamber.... So while it was at the proper temp at the bottom of the chamber, the top was likely much hotter, probably even exceeding the max heat treatment temp at the top. That was likely part of your hardness issue, and this would have also shown up in the draw backs as well, leading to lower than intended hardness. The multiple heat treatment attempts after would have just continued to decarb the part making that number drop even more.
As others have said, shim tempering your part would likely remove some of your bow and is a technique commonly used in the knife industry
A little tip from a blacksmith, for straightening heat-treated pieces, grab a block of wood and a wood mallet and hit the piece on the block with the mallet until it's straight. It doesn't damage the piece at all. Hope this helps.
Perseverance really is THE magical ingredient. Congrats to you for the quality of your character.
Your videos are not your videos without mistakes, I love them for side projects! Thanks again, it's a pleasure to watch!!!
hey you can use tempering to straighten the lead screw at the same time! your earlier attempt to bend it straight was when cold, which is why it broke. bending cold requires you to bend past elastic deformation to cause permanent changes in shape, so you have to bend past straight by a large margin. if the desired shape is held during the tempering process, the heat makes the steel relax into the position its held at. so you could clamp the screw into the inside of a straight chunk of angle iron and chuck the whole thing in the oven for the temper. I've done this with knives, just clamping them to a hunk of unistrut.
THE MUSIC IS BACK!!!!! MY ASMR is off the charts this morning.