I think something with Dredge that is underrated is how strong nightfall is against people playing on TVs. If you're playing during the (real life) daytime, there's every chance the glare makes your screen fully black.
This comment I so unrated 😭. I play in a 55' tv but is extremely difficult for mi to see anything during daytime. Besides, ppl who wear glasses are completely screwed when facing against dredges 🥲
Seriously this is such a small piece of the picture. I don't know how they can properly balance without having a more complete set of data points for analysis.
@@Minumer first time they released the data for the top 5% of mmr players instead of the whole data base which was useless data (nurse lowest kill rate, lmao)
Nah, Wesker’s got such a high kill rate bc people see daddy rolling up with his shades looking fine af and they throw themselves at him. Makes perfect sense!
I literally had two Fengs throw themselves at me on my third match as Wesker, the day he was released, so, can confirm. We were at Haddonfield and they escorted me to an upstairs bedroom. You know, with the bed...
lol this logic should apply to Trickster then, though, as a Trickster player, i can confirm that has happened. sometimes they hide in lockers right in front of me to get that pov moment 😭
One thing I think you've missed: Pinhead has quite a few mechanics that REALLY punish Survivors, especially solo queue and console Survivors, who don't know how he works. Between Survivors getting interrupted by passive chains and console Survivors dropping/vaulting pallets instead of removing chains, a lot of Pinhead matches go haywire because Survivors straight up don't know how he works or his mechanics are unnecessarily unintuitive.
yeah sadako has a similar story. Not just with the TV and tape, even the sound cue of her demanifestation is something a lot of people don't know. Likewise with legion where people don't know to separate, lead him away from other survivors and mend to 99% if he is still in his power. You would be surprised how low mmr players don't do the most obvious things, like when I first started playing Artist the survivors don't even know to repel bird right away.. a lot of them just run around with the birds on them... They probably don't know I can see them if they don't start repelling.
Always pulling my hair out cause I’m solo q and my teammates have no idea when to do the box and if I go do it usually someone else is going to the cube as well overall just wasting so much time
@@AirLight1646 I hate how the right bumper is connected to SO MANY DAMN THINGS. like it's to heal, to do gens, to drop pallets, to vault That one button is practically 90% of your interactions right there
Interesting to see these statistics. The developers have also noted on Twitter that they well understand that they can't just look at the flat percentages, which is very promising!
@@DougStuff99 yeah since almo got canceled and went on hiatus they've been way more lenient with not tunneling on their data and actually listen to feedback instead of just looking at data. 😂
Yeah the licensed killers in general tend to be high up on the list. I think this is the case because they tend to weed out the newbies. It's why you see Freddy, Sadako, Pinhead, etc. so high on the list. Demogorgon is the only weird one, honestly I have no idea why his winrate is so low.
"merciless storm is an absolute noob stomper" The frequency with which I'm on a gen with someone and it begins and the gen instantly blows up because they miss one, is honestly staggering.
Lol at this point if I have a toolbox I don't use it until about 70 percent to counter merciless storm and tinkerer, doubly so if I have teammates who might blow it 😂
About Sadako, a few days ago I played with a group of survivors, who weren't the best (me neither but I know the basics of the game), and we went against a Sadako and when we worked on a gen, they suddenly left it to turn off the tv every time they had the chance, because they didn't understand how their power worked and they were scared
Yeah I played a game with my mate and one of the people in the game clearly hadn't gone against Sadako before, they took a tape out and just held it until they got condemned and got mori'd newer or below average players often get bodied by Sadako just because they don't know how she works.
@@TheSteeltec I was like that in my first game. It was one of my first games overall and I had no idea what she did. I only realized what was happening when it was to late
I think Sadako and Freddy are so high at lower MMRs in part because they give survivors options to waste time/actively make the game harder for themselves by spending increasing amounts of time waking each other up, or turning off tvs and then getting themselves killed or having to trek across the map to remove condemned. Plague also has elements of this where cleansing too much can hand the killer a huge advantage, or oblivious survivors giving Myers free stalk
As someone who has played Sadako a lot at lower MMRs (I just started playing again recently so I was reset from red ranks to bottom rank), no new players even interact with the TVs. Lower MMR players just hardly ever do gens, they waste a lot of time wandering aimlessly. I have had one person who kept a tape on them all game and I got an easy mori out of it because their Condemned skyrocketed
I had so many solo queue games against Freddy where my teammates had it as a mission to get woken up instead of getting me off the hook or God forbid touch the gens...I guess it's very common
I think all the unexpected killers are just high bc I personally play ghostface and freddy and use them very different to how you'd expect I dominate most of my games bc I don't stalk w ghostface I go stealth in loops and use dream pallets with freddy very aggressively and my builds for most killers are (Enduring,Corrupt intervention, Spirit fury and stbfl) so survivors are instantly put under pressure with pallets not being safe. Looping skill obviously develops with this build and play style so I can pick up other killers and still win with no perks needed
I played on almost all the levels coming from the lowest to iri 4 xd and sadako is a pain to play against, like not even the condemn mechanic I'm mostly concerned about not being able to see her when she comes, comes out of nowhere literally, it's easier for me to see the wraith than her... Maybe because she is small, white and dissapears reapears 24/7. Literally kills me everytime. Same with some ghostfaces, for some reason I had a game against a ghostface where he was stealth mode and look straight into him and he didn't get revealed, had no addons of making it harder to reveal so Idk may be cheats but also could be cause of the looking at ghostface bad mechanic that hasn't been fixed since a lot of time... Also I don't think I'm very bad at looping, and to point out I only play soloQ.
I think it's important to note that most of the killers with higher killrates are ones who have more complicated mechanics. I imagine survivors who are just starting out would die a lot to these killers before understanding them. Compared to killers like huntress and nurse whose powers are very simple. They don't have any tiers or power ups.
Agreed. Being good in chase means nothing across all ranks when you can force someone to learn a new mechanic. Of course once learned, they fall to the bottom but against a majority of players, they will dominate. Pinhead being king doesn't surprise me because the box forces someone to be a team player and that is hard for a lot of low rank players.
I say the most hated killer for me to go against being new to dbd is pig casue every time for some reason I am the first one found and can now about guess where the ambush is coming from and dredge is a pain in the ass casue my TV ain't good so when it goes to night fall I'm over here squinting like where the fuck am I going
I would like to add that Billy on console is the hardest killer to play, not only because of the nerfs that destroy a lot of him, but because it is required to have a really high sense on console and the initial turn is extremely complicated to manouver and micro adjustments are really difficult to do in such a little time
@@Nathan-xt6mp dont forget that consoles are laggy, always fps limited and have a great input lag. Also the monitor (in this case TV) is located far away from you, and you need more time to make decisions.
One of my theories for Freddy is his shirt addons help a lot with his kill rate, since newer survivors are more likely to miss skillchecks 4% extra regression if you have just 1 of his shirt addons is insane
I feel like Freddy is so high because of what someone else said, rarity, not many Freddy players. But from my own exp, Freddy players tend to tunnel a lot guaranteeing kills. At least 8/10 Freddy games I get, they tunnel hard. Just an observation
Freddy is OP if you’re in the dream state. He literally is able to outrun you even if you have a blight rush or pumpkin speed boost. A killer who can easily just out speed you, even with add-one, is always gonna be at the top.
@@reaper_exd7498 freddy has no speed power, if he's outrunning u it's bc he's teleporting ahead of you to a gen and cutting u off or u ran into a snare so u are slower
I think the thing with Wesker is so many people are used to hiding nearby when the killer is about to hook someone and if Wesker is using his own perks you can't do that cause he sees your aura while he's carrying another survivor. A lot of people aren't used to this because it goes against the altruistic playstyle most people are used to.
DON'T TELL MY SECRET But yeah the fact you can close the distance with his power and his perk awakened awareness pairs better than peanut butter and chocolate
Altruistic gameplay is exactly how you beat even the best survivors. Some groups are so so good but yet saving there friends get there’s whole team killed Edit: I know it’s in “poor taste” but tunneling someone usually the rest of team stops all gens to come body block and try to save there friend. I personally abuse this fact and I win games
I'm pretty sure that Sadako's kill rate is so high because of her "free" Mori. Against newer players who don't know enough about Sadako to counter her, she doesn't even have to hook. She can chase into/away from TVs, curse survivors, and then let the clock tick down for them, no hooks required. My first match as Sadako, after a 1-2 month hiatus from the game, ended in a 4k with only one or two hooks.
Honestly I think part of Freddy and Sadako’s kill rates are to their rarity. Even though they’ve been out for a while, it’s common to go weeks or even moths to play against one. It’s hard to learn counterplay
echo'd this, I feel like when I do see freddy or sadako, I just kinda try my best to win and then just forget about them after the match, then I dont see them again for what feels like forever, so I forget everything I learned in the previous match lol
Ngl you seem new if you “forget” how to play against those killers. They’re just basic m1 killers and all you have to do is listen to know where they are. It’s not like they have a power that could destroy you in chase lol.
@@alexwarren9730 nah but as someone who just barely plays, the teleporting is tough to deal with, especially if ur not good at looping like myself; combo that with solo Q and nobody on comms and it’s even more difficult
@@munki1228 Yes so that's why their kill rates are still decent because there are so many new players, even at the top mmr there are still people with 200-300 hours who are very inexperienced at looping and being aware of their surroundings. It's basically like the old red rank system where experienced killers can win with any killer quite easily as the mmr system is very flawed.
I think a big reason you see Demo low at lower MMRS is because he's no longer available. Newer players can't pick him up so it's a matter of "volume of players"
Yeah, and I feel like the people that tend to play demo are generally more "friendly" and memey. or they're running his impossible to cleanse devour build.
But shouldn't it work in other way? If Demo is no longer available then its only available for players who already know how to play as him and their level of skill should rise on average. And also there more and more new players who don't know what is this killer and how to play against him (because there is no description for him in the game)
I'm confused. You aren't talking about kill-rates but rather general pick-rate at all MMRS, right? If so, I think @Mythic here got the wrong idea. Just want to clear this up, don't want beef, tyvm have a nice day.
@@SentenceToDESU Except it means there isn't noob stomping to pad the kill rate percentage. Since only veterans have him, he only faces veterans, which are likely to know how to easily outplay him. No one used to facing him will get hit by 8m shred, it's telegraphed and easy to sidestep while not saving time off pallet breaks unless you have barbs. Between that, and his teleport being weak without his addons to help it, means he is easy to drop to the bottom of kill rate. Being only in veteran player matches would be a disadvantage when it's a killer easy to counter with such a low skill ceiling.
I honestly didn’t expect sadakos or pin heads kill rate to be so high.. and is this the 3rd otz video in 24 hours? Even if it’s not this is still wonderful, thank you for the upload Otz! 💙
Us Sadako Simps, all ten of us that are left playing, are a persistent bunch. When everyone else stopped cueing up as her, we kept going and perfected our tactics.
8:23 I think one thing to consider is that: characters like Pinhead, Sadako, and Wesker (all at the top) is basically NOBODY'S FIRST killer. By the time a player buys the DLC for one of these characters, they probably already have 70 hours minimum. In fact, all of the top 5 characters in 'All MMR' are all LICENSED characters: people may only invest real money after they've got some decent killer experience.
I disagree. I started a month or so ago on PC and pinhead was my #1 from then till now. I see now why he might have been so easy to play, but I think that saying people only buy DLC after they've played a lot is wrong. A lot of people might start playing because they saw someone they recognize and want to play them. Such as my case.
HARD disagree. I'd consider myself a low MMR person, and the majority of killers/survivors I see are paid. Not only that, but quite a lot of low hour people buy cosmetics. Just because you don't play the game religiously doesn't mean you don't wanna buy the fun characters.
I would like to see Trapper be able to reload traps in lockers rather than have to run around, would allow him to set up a lot faster and be more relevant. Also, make the brown addon where he doesn't set off his own traps should be base.
great idea, the only problem would be that how would that work? I guess putting a limit to how many traps he can grab from a locker, and setting a cap limit on how many can be reloaded.. unlike huntress and trickster that have unlimited times reload
I'd see a modern rework just have him throw live beartraps on the ground instead of doing an entire animation. Just frisbee it onto the target spot, trap set, magic. Also, make the color-change addons be camo, to make it slightly transparent maybe, just blend in with whatever's around.
yeah if DCs were included everyone would have a much higher kill rate the problem is that we, the players, have the capacity to distinguish between "kill DCs" that happen when someone is downed and they ragequit or people who just quit when they see that the killer is someone they hate and actually accidental DCs that occur in the middle of a long chase or while working on a gen far off in the distance data itself cannot make this distinction, and rather than counting the accidental DCs they don't count any then the question becomes "are kill DCs way higher than accidental DCs or is it the reverse?" and then it should be easy to see updated stats
@@donyates7300 Bro you are exaggerating a LOT, for the killrates to be so much higher is completely unrealistic, it would be a few percent at most around 5%. I'm sorry but anyone who has SOME feeling for percentages knows that even small changes are fairly significant and such a giant change would be completely unrealistic. Besides, counting the dcs would totally fuck up the statistic simply because there are 4 survivors and just one killer, meaning survivors dc far more often because there are simply more survivors. It would make the killrates seem higher than they actually are + they obviously can't differentiate whether someone dced because of bad internet, because something in rl came up and they had to stop playing or if they just dced out of saltiness, so overall, it would fuck up the statistic completely.
I think the thing with Freddy in All MMRs is that new and unaware players are very very quick to go wake up instead of only doing it when needed or convenient. I remember when I first started I would spend ages running the entire map to the clock, and I have since learned that immediately waking up is not always mandatory. However, new players and below average players may not have learned this.
Also, speaking from experience, fakeout teleports will scare them off like 75% of the time. I would walk to a gen, fake the tele, and there would either be a gen explosion as they got spooked immediately and it happened during a skill check, or I’d see the figure of a survivor running away. Led to some very easy slowdown and hits.
So, just as a new Dredge, I think his high rank is because of how much map awareness he has, how disorienting it is to play against him as a new player, and his perk “Darkness Revealed” is a really good aura reading perk on him, as well as the entire stealth aspect. All on console, he is easy to pick up, can be really good and fun to play, and has a pretty ok perk set up.
Right? Looking at dredge on this list always felt like he's so high up joy because he's crazy op (he is strong imo don't get me wrong) but because he's so unbelievably fun. I'm someone who didn't even wanna touch killer I didn't like the game flow but dredge came out snf I bought him in a heartbeat and started the killer grind and I never had more fun. Cool design cool lore fun and strong power decent starting perks and the fact he's new probably bumps him up so high. Not to mention how unpredictable dredge can be. A lot of perks work great on him from gen kicking to hex perks to aura reading, his mobility makes all those perks feel extra powerful
Ive played the game for about 3 months and in that time i bought the dredge cause he looked pretty cool and i loved the lore and everything about him as a character. I was terrible playing as the other killers (nurse, trapper, etc) and so i was shocked how easy it was to play as the dredge, which is weird cause the guy in the vid said hes difficult to play as lol. His perks at the start are okay but its easy to get kills because teleporting to a locker could easily put you over by the survivors who are doing gens. Plus ive noticed not many survivors actually locking the lockers
Another piece of information I would REALLY like is to see the average hook stages per killer, maybe not as feasible but I think it would be a really nice metric to see how many hook stages each killer gets on average and how much that changes at higher MMRs.
If you've played a lot of solo queue you've definitely seen teams get destroyed because not everybody knows how Pinhead's cube works. Like a lot of things in game, it's not that hard to counter if you know what you're doing - but you have to rely on the other three survivors also having that knowledge in a solo match.
Couple this with the fact that removing chains and vaulting pallets are the same button on console… This may not seem huge, but as a pinhead main, you would be surprised how many slow vaults right into me have happened while in loop with a chained survivor.
I can confirm I seem to get noticeably more survivors that are friendly and chill by the end of the match when playing as Demo. Whether this is coincidence or confirmation bias I can't say, but it is something I've taken note of, and I'm far more likely to spare a survivor if they're being cool and fun.
Sadako/Pin Head/Blight noob here. I go for two hooks on each person then just chase for fun, gives stun, etc. Though I only started doing that after getting oppressed as a survivor. Turns out everyone gets more blood points when I play friendly (20,000 on avg)
I think that the top killers at all mmrs are also there because of their confusing for new players powers. Like my first match against pinhead when I was new we got stomped because nobody knew how to stop a chain hunt. This kind of thing is present with the other top killers, sadako, spirit, plague etc.
This is what I was thinking as well. I think Otz very rarely interacts with the worst survivors in the game, they aren't the type to show up to his stream or watch his videos. They aren't going to know not to grab Sadako's tapes, or not cleanse against plague when you are barely infected, or whether Spirit is phasing or just standing still.
16:32 Sadako is high up because she's got great map pressure on top of being stealthy. In my experience, big maps are not an issue for her, especially with specific add-ons and how many survivors don't actually bother with T.V.s.
Sadako is trash at higher mmr if you play her like a normal m1 killer. She's only strong if you abuse her condemn which requires a pretty significant change in play. Otz is right about lower tiers where maybe merciless storm can get more value. Survivors don't bother with TVs because it is easier to win by gen rushing than respecting her power, which again only really comes into play if you are playing her a certain way.
@@XxDarkXxXSasuxX Depends how you play her i guess. Survs when i played her never bothered with TVs. which meant if i read right it was a free gauge increase and catch up if needed. On top of allows you to traverse the map at really great speeds if you get used to all the timings and where the TVs were on the map to where the survs go/gen locales. Ultimately she's not amazing, especially if you take long chases without any way to use your powers. but i dont think she's as low as people think. Since she has a lot of ways to really mess with players when utilised. which i doubt explains how high of a killrate she has across all MMRs and even in the top 5% (even I thought she would've been lower) but i think it helps.
@@ptsmknbatgirl lol ok, still a killer with literally 0 chase power. Anti-loop potential is mid at best, and still worthless if you are going against high tier survivors With the new health updates hit-run killers like her will be indirectly buffed, so she will be a little more viable, but not by much
19:30 I would hope that the devs are looking into the data more than what we're seeing. They can easily gather data on deviation numbers instead of just overall killrate percent. This will show if its a killer with a stable kill rate, regularly getting 2-3 kills that averages to 60%, or if the killer has a large deviation in kills (regularly getting 1k or 4k still averaging 60%)
I’ll add one little thing to sadako on why she is so high up, I think that a lot of new players don’t know how her power works, so they’ll end up getting condemned without knowing what it means, I know I did, and me and my whole team died very quickly the first time I faced her
Also newer survivors are terrible in chases against M1 killers too and don't know how to loop or use pallets effectivel. A killer with no Terror Radius initially and the ability to teleport across the map is surprisingly effective at lower MMRs (which same goes for Freddy).
I figured out why Freddy is so high up, most of the people playing Freddy are playing from space, which makes his hits hit from two jungle-gyms away 🙃 Since it’s hard to adjust to that for survivors, it’s easy picking’s for the dream demon!
TOME CHALLENGES are a good thing to point out too! I played Nurse (very poorly) last month JUST because of the like 3-4 Tome Challenges she had in Tome 12. Took me like 8 games to complete them, and never got a 4k.
Wesker is a great killer for beginners. His power is, well, powerful. Also, as you said, he has a built-in slowdown (the survivors have to spray otherwise they’ll be significantly disadvantaged). His add-ons are pretty good, and his ability isn’t too mechanically demanding. His hitboxes can be weird for sure, and his perks aren’t by any means meta, but they’re okay nonetheless.
I've been saying this for so long Wesker is one of the strongest killers in the game. His power alone is just really freakin good, like, really good. Easy to get hits, mobility is nearly unmatched, zoning is amazing, and his infection provides instadowning or slowdown. His terror radius provides somewhat of a built in stealth, kind of like doctor. If you always hear his terror radius, you're never going to know where he's coming from. (But it's not really as oppressive as I'm making it out to be, mainly for new players) Even just the passive benefit of never having to take the time to pick up a survivor is huge when it's happening nearly every time you down a survivor He does everything extremely well, but does nothing better than the obviously op killers like blight, nurse, spirit, artist
This gave me an idea for one of those longer videos of yours- playing every killer on controller. Similar to your best builds on every killer video but could be fun/interesting to see how the experience differs on controller. Just a thought :D
@@jenericjoe7565 You’re right. Spine Chill’s information aspect was buffed. So stealth killers should be performing worse the more SC users there are. But people missed that the devs reversed course on the perk changes.
@@JoshuaSchonfeld People stopped using it as part of their vault speed build, which helped a lot. The wiki says the icon lights up if a killer is within 36m even if they are undetectable. But knowing when I am being stalked or ghost faced, is very good for stopping the instant downs. Without it, I can't easily see them as I don't know which direction they are coming from.
@@jenericjoe7565 it now only goes off if the killer has a direct line of sight on you and is within 36 meters, before it was just if they looked in your direction in that radius so you would tend to find out if a stealth killer was coming long before they actually found you or started stalking you. it's feature of visually telling you how far in the killers terror radius you are also won't work if there's no terror radius.
Being a demo main has a big advantage as survivors will always have less experience playing against him than the other killers, especially as time goes on and newer people join
Great video and explanations Otz, the high MMR Sadako > Condemn strat was something I didn't even think of so I'm glad you pointed it out. One bit of feedback though, I think it would have been better if the pickrate image you made was organized by % of picks instead of alphabetically. But that might just be me, gonna hop over to the stream now you're live
It's worth mentioning that the Sadako strat is like most Pig strats, in that it's not the killer's base kit at all, but add-ons doing most of the work. Tape-Editing Deck plus Iri-Tape are required on the build that actually makes Sadako dangerous, because as a "stealth killer", she's completely inept and very, very easy to loop. (a stealth killer who announces their presence and specific position every time they use their power...what on Earth was BHVR smoking?)
I believe Sadako is so high for all MMR also because of how new players are with the tapes and getting fully condemned, along with stealth and good perks. A new survivor sees a TV, feels they need to prevent Sadako from teleporting, and take the tape, applying some slow down and building condemned.
And that on high MMR, Sadako's focus on getting an early deathstare by harassing the same survivor over and over again, and because without any comms, this means that Sadako quite easily gets an early kill because there is no way to demand help without comms or perks(like Empathy). Closing the gap between solo and SWF will lower Sadako's killrate significantly in high MMR.
I main sadako and you are completely right. I am surprised to no end to see survivors grabbing a tape at the start of the trial and maximizing their own condemn by the end of the end.
I would like to see the entire distributions per killer. That could show us whether the killers have a stable kill number or are either very low or very high.
How can they show this when mmr doesn’t mean anything? I’m guessing you mean against the top players because everyone knows you can win with any killer very easily against a weak team
@@alexwarren9730 What I mean is this: The kill rate number they are showing right now is the percentage of survivors killed each trial on average, i.e. 50% = 2 kills per trial on average. Otz said that many killers being at 60% is not a good thing in and of itself because a killer could be either very bad (low number of survivors killed) or very good (high number of survivors killed) and thus get a 60% because they calculate the average. That is why I wanted to see the entire distribution instead of just the average to see whether the kill number is stable around the mean or oscillates between the extremes. They could for example just throw the raw numbers into a histogram and show us that.
For me personally, I don't mind medkits that much as Ghostface. Mainly because I lean heavily into Ghostface's Stalking, and my favorite thing to do as him is instadown with his power. It can be hard on certain maps, but my experience as a Bone-clapper Ghost using Wraith helps me find unexpected angles to stalk survivors from.
11:17 I think the effect that nightfall makes you see people in a very bright white also helps the dredge on lower levels ALOT. especially on maps wioth loads of grass and great ways to hide in plain sight this is strong for people not used to dbd. also he is fairly new and thus people in the beginning dont know how to act around him yet.
One theory I have is the actual character itself can help with pick rate too. Like License characters like Freddy could be picked more by newer players cause he is so well known
Im surprised about doc, I never had much issue with understanding what he was about nor using his kit so seeing him on the low end is definitely surprising especially since if you have lethal pursuer and all 4 survs spawn together one static blast can set you up for the whole game as now everyone has permanent Madness 1, couple that with his discipline tree of addons I believe it was making it so doc can see hallucinations all the time and it becomes very difficult for players who aren't used to countering doc.
as someone whos watched some low mmr games I can tell you what it is that very new killer players overuse his power in chase. I've seen docs chase while m2 spamming even beyond t3 and whenever there isnt a risk of vault/action. Often they waste minutes especially if theyre the kind of new player that commits to one chase forever so even if the overcharge + awareness value comes into play they just never get downs.
@@thenecron9502 it's actually insane. Killer got a 2k not even a gen in. for some reason. I looped him. On the sign in front of ormand resort. U heard me right. No palette. A gen, a rock, and a sign. Sis let me loop her for 4 gens basically (also the epic nea on my team w self care. I got some flashlight saves as well) she was a streamer so it's a why I remember it so well. Pure shock abuse
As a Sadako main I very much agree with the beginner/mid MMR! I’ve played her since I got the game back in Feb. and use a Freddy as well as Huntress perks to help her out if speed is an issue. Get a pretty high kill score even though I don’t have all characters unlocked. Perks are amazing 🦀
I think sadako is so high with newer survivors and killers because I have a theory that the new survivors expected the bigger and more hulking killers like wraith or nemesis so they aim to look higher on their screen to look to see when they are even in their remote area so when a sadako just appears the survivors panic and don't think about trying to loop or look for the nearest pallet because they have been jumpscared by a sadako appearing they don't think properly
Another point about Wesker that I think you missed (or I missed you mentioning it) is that he does have some built-in slowdown with his Ouroboros infection and the fact you have to use first aid kits. Sure, it's not as much as Pig or Pinhead, but it's still there and Wesker is probably better than those two in other aspects explaining him being higher up
I loved your analysis of Dredge. As a noob survivor, the first time I played against Dredge, I'd never seen him and was unfamiliar with his powers. His terror radius was getting closer and so I hid in a locker and he immediately came out of it and got a grab. It resulted in an amazing scary moment that will always be one of my favorite early DBD memories. However, now that I know that and have been playing longer, I'd almost never hide in a locker against Dredge. Considering new and solo players who have never gone up against Dredge before (because at least as far as I've seen, he's not played very often at low MMR), he gets a lot of free grabs.
I play with friends that don't play DbD that often and whenever we go against a Dredge they run around like they are blind. To inexperienced players that don't have maps and loops memorised it is very difficult to deal with. When I play Dredge I also see a lot of survivors run into walls and run out into nothing even though you can still see the nearest pallet to you. Newer survivors just tend to panic and try to hide whenever nightfall happens.
Talking about Dredge @10:26, I think you should mention that Darkness Revealed is huge against new survivors or solo players, especially on maps where lockers are more concentrated, or the RNG puts all the gens in range of a locker.
As an Onryo main I can also add that not many survivors have experience against Sadako. They don't know what to do or how to handle the TVs. Sadako has amazing perks, pretty good add-ons and is rather easy to play. She also, like Myers, has a secondary way to kill survivors which also adds to the percentage. Defending a 3gen is rather easy to do with her because of her great perks and insane mobility. Players seem to get confused when I teleport over the entire map in seconds and don't know to react to that
The night fall for dredge is definitely what bumps him up. I’ve played against veteran players and there reactions are priceless 💀💀. And it’s not that they don’t understand it but it racks there nerves and make mistakes faster than usual.
I'm not super high mmr I think but my problem with dredge is that my tv is on pretty dark settings to not hurt my eyes too much. I'm already struggeling to see on the darker maps to the point where I sometimes run into random walls that I could't see. When I'm facing dredge my screen is just completely black which is why it's my least favourite killer to ho against now
I main Dredge, but i admit that Dredge on TV is just a nightmare, specially when there's people like you that can't play with high brightness/contrast. It's a shame that any fix towards this would pretty much make nightfall useless. I thought about a basic brightness settings in game, cause a lot of people play on TV or can't stand being too close to a bright monitor screen.
Another thing u see in the chart is that some of the top killers are licensed, don’t know if that changes too much but I know those characters enticed me to play the game as well, so people may have bought them when they got the game.
For me, I've exclusively been playing Wesker solely because of the Halloween event. He is new and the only one I didnt have P3, so when I leveled him up I got event offerings. And I just couldn't waste them haha
Thoughts on giving separate data for pc and console? It would show the obvious aim oriented and micro adjustment killers, but I feel there would be some weird discrepancies and also allow us to filter out problems based on gaming system
As a casual killer player, I like playing Sadako, in a chase against survivors that are not used to her, you can push/lead them toward the tv's then teleporting there to confuse them and builds up condemn stacks rapidly.
The add-on that gives condemn for healing is so good, i think it's part of the reason her kill rate is high, and is a good add-on for a more casual playstyle, cause you just need to injure survivors for it to work
As a pinhead main, it's pretty clear a lot of new players simply have no idea what's going on, ignorance might explain a lot of the unexpected stats here. I also run Nemi a lot, and new players often go through obvious bad spots when contaminated like windows and pallets where getting a hit with the tentacle is easy for an experienced nemi.
I use double zombie add ons, and the zombies gives me info on where they are running around at and it also disrupts a lot of their generator runs. As I run dead man's switch too.
Honestly, I like the expected kill-rate being around 60%. This game was initially inspired, and features characters from, many classic slasher films, where there's usually 1 survivor, with a second person getting away every so often. The kill rates as they are seem balanced to fit the inspiration, and I enjoy that. I mean, if me and 3 of my friends got trapped by a super-powered murderer, I'm pretty sure we'd be lucky to have one get out alive, let alone 2. Not that I don't get the 50/50 argument in terms of being a fair video game, but for immersion, I prefer things as they are.
This. Horror experience and authenticity to those pop-cultural elements is all that really matters. Game loses it’s charm if it becomes too easy to sway the odds in survivor’s favors.
Yes. As a newbie I feel dredge is the most scary killer, with the nightfall ability. Without window of opportunity I don't know how to loop him at all.
As a game designer; my own theory is skill ceiling, and skill floor; I have a design philosophy that gets me butting heads with some other designers but generally speaking, the wider the skill floor is from the the max possible skill ceiling for a character, the more likely that character is to be broken or balanced at the top. This is why someone like Doomfist from OV2 gets his skill ceiling cut down, many designers lower the ceiling instead of the floor, and depending on where the skill ceiling, and floor starts will affect how good a character is. Edit: also keep in mind the skill ceiling, and floor for counter play can affect how good the character itself is as well; meaning if a character has a lot of bad match ups it's not going to be that effective no matter how powerful it is, fighting games this is a great example. Even how a map is designed can give too much counter play one way or another; and how you traverse a map or not can entirely effect how useful a character is. A great example I could use is from Overwatch when moving with the team, if you know the map better than the enemy team, you can easily turn the tide in your favor even if you're bad at the game. Or in one case you can get a team wipe out all because you know how to effectively use the map against said character, exploiting a weakness of theirs, simple changes like this can entirely affect your ability to win, as thus why stages in Smash Bros tournaments don't allow stages with slight slopes even.
The nurses stats are heavily influenced by something I call Nurse Aversion, I know a large group of DBD players won't even touch Nurse because they believe she is too strong. I have never played Nurse outside of a single custom match among friends, and everyone in my group is the same, and I believe a decent portion of the DBD community is the same. Noobs wouldn't be averse to Nurse, and could be drawn to her due to her infamy as being "OP" and they figure starting as her will help them out
im a casual player that would very rarely play nurse, on console. Everytime they give up as soon as they hear the scream....like sometimes dc, usually they run at me, or go afk. I hit MAYBE 70% of my blink hits, on a good day. I run information perks like dicordance, and spies.
@@weskerrun4647 not that hard, it sucks for the first 3 dozen or so games(or however long it takes for muscle memory) then you’ll be decent. If you can hit 50% of your blinks, you’ll win most matches. Especially versus solo Que.
Also, someone above stated, you’ll get lots of games with a dc after they hear the first blink, or you’ll get suicides. Last game I played with her months ago, they all just stopped trying. I dced cause I know how they feel. Nurse is a pain as solo Que, and I only run one slowdown on her.
Another really important point on the all mmr stats is that less popular killers seem to be a little higher up. This makes sense because the probability that the player who plays the killer is more experienced is higher
That's cause it takes 30 mins to realize how garbage these stats are. Would take hours to explain how to come up with any of this and thats if they even give evidence for their stats.
As a Dredge main, I can say that Nightfall does help to secure kills. Since Nightfall increases the speed at which you travel when teleporting to a locker allows you to cut off survivors during chase. That and some of Dredges Addons allow for some very strong setups throughout the game.
It’s the top 5% of the killers mmr so basically it might as well be the top 20% or whatever the soft cap is because you are playing against survivors that are of that skill bracket. It basically means if you’re in the myers or sadako region and you win a lot with them, then you are probably very good at the game.
So for Sadako, I can share a bit of my own experience that might provide insight (newish - med-level killer). I recently picked up Sadako and started playing her after not playing for a long time so I was at the lowest ranks of matchmaking starting out, then started moving up to mid-level (Silver II so far). I actually have found with her at lowest levels, she gets an *incredibly* strong start against newer survivors. They don't seem to recognize the TV's so don't know there's a Sadako on the roam, and get themselves cornered easily at match start which is huge for any killer. Though other stealth killers can do this as well, because I had some of the most common killer perks teachable before picking up Sadako, I was able to go into matches with Pop and Call of Brine, which through to mid-level ranking was devastating survivors since I could chase down, hook, then teleport back through a TV to always pop the exact gen I wanted. Combined with Sadako's very strong low level addons against low-mid level players makes her very strong against newer players. I'm running 50% invisibility duration, and -6 meters visibility range while demanifested, and probably half the matches I play or more I have someone at the start just run into my M1 range by themselves not realizing I'm there until it's too late. Getting pop/call of brine combo right off the bat, against low level survivors, with the common very strong start of survivors not recognizing the killer and mispositioning against her short range visibility I think is why Sadako does so well in overall.
@@sleepyking4558 For sure, but unfortunately I can't see my MMR, so instead I used the colour grading as a means of representing the general MMR range which I've been playing through. Due to the length of time since last played, one would assume starting at 'default MMR', and the range would increase to an approximate amount one would achieve while getting from ash V to Silver II. While it's not 1:1, it's the best representation made available without using third party tools that I'm aware of. I fully appreciate that MMR is a separate system though, and apologize for not making that more clear.
How about the argument that killers which are behind a pay wall or needs to be unlocked with shards have a better killrate. Because these are bought by players who are more likely to 1: invest in the killer and 2) already have a understanding of the game mechanics
Another thing that you didn't mention: Many bad killers tend to not buy the killer DLCs, so killers like dredge are played mostly by "better than average" players so it would kill more
Yea nah plenty of terrible people still bih the killer dlcs. And many many people who play these killers are definitely average or below. They are just playing against survivors who are also below average and don’t understand how to play against them.
@@sleepyking4558 I'm not saying that only good people buy him, but that the average would be slightly better since many starting players don't have him
@@TheRealMycanthrope it was foretold by a mystical non-camping bubba! Joking aside; people just starting tend not to buy every single dlc, and only buys the killer's pack or the famous ones they recognize like demo or myers. So we are left with the good ol' farming, and even there i bet they would aim to the thicc-er killers before buying him or the twins
Personal theory for top 5% cannibal is that most top players have a zero hits mindset when they see bubba while it's easier to overestimate your situation with other killers almost everyone understands that if bubba catches you it's ggs
I think an underrated reason for many of the “overall” (low) MMR top tier killers is their height. Beginner and average players won’t be able to play around shorter killers’ mindgames at filler pallets. The lowest winrate short killer is hag at 59% which I think backs this theory as well as explaining the inflated freddy numbers (although I di think his “stealth” factor puts him at a high wr% by default at lower MMR
It looks like the top killers (in all MMRs) are generally ones you pay for as well (with a few exceptions). More experienced players are more likely to play with them.
@@levirift9218 I don't know man, getting grabs and free hits off Tinkerer's Undetectable element is pretty gratifying. If that doesn't do it for you what about.. Trapper but fluent in French?
I get wrecked by Dredge and Nemesis players. Dredge, i feel, is the easiest killer to setup a 3 gen situation. While Nemesis has too much info from Zombies along with a wonky tentacle hit box
He's soooooo boring to face. Sry, if you are a Dredge main but it feels like Behaviour's latest original killers are all visually amazing (Artist, Dredge, Trickster) but facing them and playing them is super frustrating and boring. Meanwhile, Sadako, Nemisis and Mastermind are actually fun!
Stealth killers are like the only killers im worried about. The other ones i love running in circles and tossing pallets on them. The ability to distract tunnel visioned killers for up to several minutes is beneficial always even if it ultimately results in you being hooked. The stealth characters are all annoying in some way, are hard to keep track off, and usually once you see them, its after being hit.
It was said by someone in chat on Monday’s stream; in all MMRs the reason for some of the strange killers in the high kill rates is that they have “unusal” mechanics. Dredge: nightfall, Plague: cleansing (especially lower MMR and solos not knowing when to cleanse), Pig: dealing with beartraps, Freddy: clocks (lower MMRs wake up with clocks ALL the time), Wesker: first aid sprays + unsual m2 attack, Sadako: TV’s (especially with the tape addons) and Pinhead: the box. For new people, casual players and solos, these things are very critical and I believe it boosts their rates significantly. Great video as always Otz, thank you so much for breaking these things down!
Another thing to consider with Sadako, despite not being good in chase, she's super short, and her passive phasing is immensely confusing at times. I've gotten a noticeably greater amount of hits around safe pallet loops by trying to use demanifest in chase or trying to use height to my advantage.
The ability to teleport on TV is also really useful. It allow you to surprise survivors by faking a chase and coming back on a Gen that you know they are doing. With the perk that make them oblivious near a TV, you'll get some good result.
@@elimoser7546 If you see 2 survivors on a gen,, chase one. If it's too hard to get your second hit, you can quickly come back by teleporting. Survivors will 95% come back to finish the gen and prevent hit from regressing too much.
We've met a couple Cenobites that all they did was chase their box from the very start. They'd find it in no time, or they'd catch one of us picking it up or around. They activate the box, and boom, 90% of the game you have chains chasing you, so it makes the game both a nightmare and mostly unwinnable. Bear in mind, his focus is always picking up the box, even dropping chases to pick it up. I found that strategy incredibly op.
So, I think Dredge is up there because it is a stealth, information and mobility killer all in one. For new survivors I imagine it to be very overwhelming to play against him, as you have so many things to keep in mind. Especially with Nightfall.
Fun fact, when I played vs cenobite - he always tunneled and camped survs. Really every time if someone got unhooked he was hitting and chasing unhooked surv
Every killer has one dude that camps a hook. Personally the fun of Pinhead is the pallet game. Hitting people in the back makes them panic and they're too slow to play ring around the rosie.
Seems like built in slow down (in whatever way) is king. Followed by built in mapwide mobility. Which sort of explains Sadako but... not really. The top 5% is it's own thing and I hope BHVR doesn't balance the game around what a small portion of the population is doing to one another.
Except the game SHOULD be balanced with the account for pros in mind (See League of Legends). Otherwise, experienced players will simply cyber-bully weaker ones.
My theory why Sadako is so high is because she's easily the spookiest killer in the game. I know she's weak but I get so much anxiety when I face a Sadako that I know I'm messing up things I usually don't.
Satako is one of my killer mains and I hook survivors often but condemn does play a role as I have her two stronger add-one but my goal isn’t to completely focus on it
The one thing that jumps out to me from the 5% MMR chart is that abilities which help killers with the macro game are better than abilities which help them in chase. Take a look at the top nine killers on that chart: - Wesker has built in slowdown from infection, Bound for extra mobility, and gets some information from spray pings - Plague can get infections passively without having to be in chase and can pressure survivors to use fountains periodically. - Dredge and Sadako both have solid map mobility, and Sadako has built in gen pressure in the form of getting survivors to periodically deal with Condemned stacks. - Oni has very good map mobility while charged up and some tracking from blood - Pinhead's Chain Hunt is solid mapwide pressure and survivors have to periodically get off gens to deal with the box. (Plus the teleport is a bit of pressure too sometimes.) - Blight has top tier map mobility - Nurse is maybe the least "macro" of these killers but even she can use Blinks to get around map clutter and walls efficiently - Spirit has good map mobility with her phase. When you then compare those killers to the ones on the bottom of the list (e.g. Trapper, Huntress, Deathslinger, Clown, Bubba) a lot of those lower bracket killers have weaker macro games. So basically I suspect the community tend to somewhat overvalue abilities which directly help in chase and undervalue abilities which help the macro game and that's why they are surprised when killers like Dredge and Sadako show up really high both charts. I think it's a mistake to discount abilities which help with macro-level strategy.
Sadako can actually get insanely close to survivors with her teleport, and if her TV is just out of sight of the gen, odds are she can run right up on a survivor and grab them right off the gen before her terror radius goes back up.
Otz I'm not saying I'm a great player but since all my experience is on console and I'm a Pinhead main, and his power has by far the biggest difference in usability between controller and mnk. I know the sensitivity is limited either way but it's not like Blight where you either go left or right, using Pinhead's power against good survivors on mnk can be unbearable. The reason he has the highest killrate overall is definitely because of how powerful his slowdown is against solo que survivors especially when paired with slowdown perks. I actually don't have a hard time playing Blight and Nurse but I really have a hard time using Pinhead's chains efficiently and I really feel like I'm not able to enjoy my favorite franchise because for some reason DbD is one of the only forced crossplay (you'll never find a match with it disabled) games that doesn't have mnk support on console and I experience lack of mnk support as more of a detriment to my ability to enjoy the game than I do cheaters
I would be interested to see more info around DCs, as especially in high mmr that could account for some of the unexpected kill rates. Its not rare for me in solo queue to get into a lobby and have one player dc because they hear nurse blink, and then everyone just DCs following it, which assumedly would count, for these stats, as 4 out against a nurse? 4 man DCs aren't super common but against things like iri head, and in cases where people dc on hook or while being slugged to death, they can't just be completely ignored. It would be interesting to compare kill rates when DCs are counted as kills rather than not counted.
Two things I think are also really important to consider are: DC Rate - Some killers are much more DC prone, like Doctor and Nurse, and annoyed players in losing matches are more likely to DC, which would skew the statistics of those killers. Seeing how much people DC against each killer can give an insight on how much people think they are unfun or are fed up with them. Add-on Pick/Win/DC Rate - This would be really useful to see if any particular combination of add-ons are "carrying" some killers or are traps who pull their rates down.
What makes dredge so strong is that a lot of players are highly dependent on lockers and for some reason against dredge players never enter lockers. So they are basically playing handicapped. The reason sadako is so high is because from my experience a lot of players don't do TV's massively increasing her ability to hop around the map.
I think it's also partly because they have a hard time seeing when she's manifested or not. I know for myself, I have a hard time seeing because of bad vision and can't ever really tell unless I can see her red stain pretty instantly. xd
*Correction:* The high MMR data has been confirmed to be the top 5% players of EACH Killer, not just in general.
bruh scam bot on your own comment lmfao
is it top 5% of players or top 5 % of mmrs... Thats a big difference given the mmr cap.
@Phillip It's just Otz's third account congratulating himself for watching his own video wdym
@@acemack2 ah that explains everything,thx m8!
That just confirms my theory about OnePumpWillie single handedly elevating Sadako's kill rate to the top
I think something with Dredge that is underrated is how strong nightfall is against people playing on TVs. If you're playing during the (real life) daytime, there's every chance the glare makes your screen fully black.
ive never seen something more relatable tbh
Ong I can relate cuz I instantly start taking loops wide and running into everything since I can’t see
this.
This comment I so unrated 😭.
I play in a 55' tv but is extremely difficult for mi to see anything during daytime. Besides, ppl who wear glasses are completely screwed when facing against dredges 🥲
This.
Big ups to the devs for letting us finally see these stats
Huh? They post pickrates and killrates every so often, this isn't the first time...
@@Minumer But isnt it the first time, they doing it with everything, like all DBD Players? Sorry if not, but i think they never did it like that
Need map win rates
Seriously this is such a small piece of the picture. I don't know how they can properly balance without having a more complete set of data points for analysis.
@@Minumer first time they released the data for the top 5% of mmr players instead of the whole data base which was useless data (nurse lowest kill rate, lmao)
Nah, Wesker’s got such a high kill rate bc people see daddy rolling up with his shades looking fine af and they throw themselves at him. Makes perfect sense!
😭😭
Okay but fr when me and my friend see wesker it's tradition to drop everything and tell him we love him LOL
🤨
I literally had two Fengs throw themselves at me on my third match as Wesker, the day he was released, so, can confirm. We were at Haddonfield and they escorted me to an upstairs bedroom. You know, with the bed...
lol this logic should apply to Trickster then, though, as a Trickster player, i can confirm that has happened. sometimes they hide in lockers right in front of me to get that pov moment 😭
One thing I think you've missed: Pinhead has quite a few mechanics that REALLY punish Survivors, especially solo queue and console Survivors, who don't know how he works.
Between Survivors getting interrupted by passive chains and console Survivors dropping/vaulting pallets instead of removing chains, a lot of Pinhead matches go haywire because Survivors straight up don't know how he works or his mechanics are unnecessarily unintuitive.
yeah sadako has a similar story. Not just with the TV and tape, even the sound cue of her demanifestation is something a lot of people don't know. Likewise with legion where people don't know to separate, lead him away from other survivors and mend to 99% if he is still in his power. You would be surprised how low mmr players don't do the most obvious things, like when I first started playing Artist the survivors don't even know to repel bird right away.. a lot of them just run around with the birds on them... They probably don't know I can see them if they don't start repelling.
This isn't getting enough attention. Pinhead is much harder to vs as survivor on console.
Always pulling my hair out cause I’m solo q and my teammates have no idea when to do the box and if I go do it usually someone else is going to the cube as well overall just wasting so much time
That’s another reason why you should change your controls on console, I really wish they’d just change the default console controls
@@AirLight1646 I hate how the right bumper is connected to SO MANY DAMN THINGS. like it's to heal, to do gens, to drop pallets, to vault
That one button is practically 90% of your interactions right there
Interesting to see these statistics. The developers have also noted on Twitter that they well understand that they can't just look at the flat percentages, which is very promising!
@@DougStuff99 so true and i thinks they need to buff nurse :)
@@lexdgamer8488 did this mf say they need to buff nurse?
@@DougStuff99 yeah since almo got canceled and went on hiatus they've been way more lenient with not tunneling on their data and actually listen to feedback instead of just looking at data. 😂
@@-cosmicgoat-4589 it’s a running meme in the community
@@Villey oh thank god
Killers like Sadako could simply be that since very few people play her, the people who do play her are incredibly good
Yeah the licensed killers in general tend to be high up on the list. I think this is the case because they tend to weed out the newbies. It's why you see Freddy, Sadako, Pinhead, etc. so high on the list. Demogorgon is the only weird one, honestly I have no idea why his winrate is so low.
@@taragnor demo isnt really that good once you counter play then again im still surprised as sad is still high up
@@deathbringer9893 also most demos let you go cuz funny
@@buhmoment954 demo is a garbo, predictable killer at higher MMR.
@@sam7259 also dont cleanse portals and he loses part of his power when those gens get done
"merciless storm is an absolute noob stomper"
The frequency with which I'm on a gen with someone and it begins and the gen instantly blows up because they miss one, is honestly staggering.
Lol at this point if I have a toolbox I don't use it until about 70 percent to counter merciless storm and tinkerer, doubly so if I have teammates who might blow it 😂
And then they have the audacity to run away 🙄
@@Pam234yeah fuk that, you blow up the gen you go down with the gen dammit
About Sadako, a few days ago I played with a group of survivors, who weren't the best (me neither but I know the basics of the game), and we went against a Sadako and when we worked on a gen, they suddenly left it to turn off the tv every time they had the chance, because they didn't understand how their power worked and they were scared
She can teleport across the map to the tv, right?
@@kevinbissinger yes, and the condemn thing but it's pretty weak, if you ignore that basically don't do anything most of the time
Yeah I played a game with my mate and one of the people in the game clearly hadn't gone against Sadako before, they took a tape out and just held it until they got condemned and got mori'd newer or below average players often get bodied by Sadako just because they don't know how she works.
@@TheSteeltec I was like that in my first game. It was one of my first games overall and I had no idea what she did. I only realized what was happening when it was to late
@@ninjafri3nd_0o yeah, sadako is probably one of the killers that punishes you the most if you don't understand them.
I think Sadako and Freddy are so high at lower MMRs in part because they give survivors options to waste time/actively make the game harder for themselves by spending increasing amounts of time waking each other up, or turning off tvs and then getting themselves killed or having to trek across the map to remove condemned. Plague also has elements of this where cleansing too much can hand the killer a huge advantage, or oblivious survivors giving Myers free stalk
Tier 1 Myers is also quite funny in low mmr
As someone who has played Sadako a lot at lower MMRs (I just started playing again recently so I was reset from red ranks to bottom rank), no new players even interact with the TVs. Lower MMR players just hardly ever do gens, they waste a lot of time wandering aimlessly. I have had one person who kept a tape on them all game and I got an easy mori out of it because their Condemned skyrocketed
I had so many solo queue games against Freddy where my teammates had it as a mission to get woken up instead of getting me off the hook or God forbid touch the gens...I guess it's very common
I think all the unexpected killers are just high bc I personally play ghostface and freddy and use them very different to how you'd expect I dominate most of my games bc I don't stalk w ghostface I go stealth in loops and use dream pallets with freddy very aggressively and my builds for most killers are (Enduring,Corrupt intervention, Spirit fury and stbfl) so survivors are instantly put under pressure with pallets not being safe. Looping skill obviously develops with this build and play style so I can pick up other killers and still win with no perks needed
I played on almost all the levels coming from the lowest to iri 4 xd and sadako is a pain to play against, like not even the condemn mechanic I'm mostly concerned about not being able to see her when she comes, comes out of nowhere literally, it's easier for me to see the wraith than her... Maybe because she is small, white and dissapears reapears 24/7. Literally kills me everytime. Same with some ghostfaces, for some reason I had a game against a ghostface where he was stealth mode and look straight into him and he didn't get revealed, had no addons of making it harder to reveal so Idk may be cheats but also could be cause of the looking at ghostface bad mechanic that hasn't been fixed since a lot of time... Also I don't think I'm very bad at looping, and to point out I only play soloQ.
I think it's important to note that most of the killers with higher killrates are ones who have more complicated mechanics. I imagine survivors who are just starting out would die a lot to these killers before understanding them. Compared to killers like huntress and nurse whose powers are very simple. They don't have any tiers or power ups.
Agreed. Being good in chase means nothing across all ranks when you can force someone to learn a new mechanic. Of course once learned, they fall to the bottom but against a majority of players, they will dominate. Pinhead being king doesn't surprise me because the box forces someone to be a team player and that is hard for a lot of low rank players.
I say the most hated killer for me to go against being new to dbd is pig casue every time for some reason I am the first one found and can now about guess where the ambush is coming from and dredge is a pain in the ass casue my TV ain't good so when it goes to night fall I'm over here squinting like where the fuck am I going
I'm pretty sure alot of nurse games are dc and they said they don't count dc games.
These killers have map pressure or mobility. It helps to patrol gens.
Maybe pinhead n sadako, but I don’t think that wesker, Freddy, pig.. they don’t rlly have high skill cap.
I would like to add that Billy on console is the hardest killer to play, not only because of the nerfs that destroy a lot of him, but because it is required to have a really high sense on console and the initial turn is extremely complicated to manouver and micro adjustments are really difficult to do in such a little time
BOT MEANIE ABOVE unless he got reported to oblivion :)
@@yourallygod8261 some nolife dude trying to scam kids
I play on PC and when I use billy I use a controller because he’s easier to control on it…
@@Nathan-xt6mp dont forget that consoles are laggy, always fps limited and have a great input lag. Also the monitor (in this case TV) is located far away from you, and you need more time to make decisions.
I actually find Billy easier with controller as well.
One of my theories for Freddy is his shirt addons help a lot with his kill rate, since newer survivors are more likely to miss skillchecks 4% extra regression if you have just 1 of his shirt addons is insane
overcharge+ double dress = 13%
I feel like Freddy is so high because of what someone else said, rarity, not many Freddy players. But from my own exp, Freddy players tend to tunnel a lot guaranteeing kills. At least 8/10 Freddy games I get, they tunnel hard. Just an observation
Freddy is OP if you’re in the dream state. He literally is able to outrun you even if you have a blight rush or pumpkin speed boost. A killer who can easily just out speed you, even with add-one, is always gonna be at the top.
@@reaper_exd7498 freddy has no speed power, if he's outrunning u it's bc he's teleporting ahead of you to a gen and cutting u off or u ran into a snare so u are slower
@@reaper_exd7498 That sounds like a generator teleport. So don't run towards gens. He has a very long cooldown, so nothing like onryo or dredge.
I think the thing with Wesker is so many people are used to hiding nearby when the killer is about to hook someone and if Wesker is using his own perks you can't do that cause he sees your aura while he's carrying another survivor. A lot of people aren't used to this because it goes against the altruistic playstyle most people are used to.
your aura is hidden when in lockers
altruism kills
@@imawetad8870 Iron maiden
DON'T TELL MY SECRET
But yeah the fact you can close the distance with his power and his perk awakened awareness pairs better than peanut butter and chocolate
Altruistic gameplay is exactly how you beat even the best survivors. Some groups are so so good but yet saving there friends get there’s whole team killed
Edit: I know it’s in “poor taste” but tunneling someone usually the rest of team stops all gens to come body block and try to save there friend. I personally abuse this fact and I win games
I'm pretty sure that Sadako's kill rate is so high because of her "free" Mori. Against newer players who don't know enough about Sadako to counter her, she doesn't even have to hook. She can chase into/away from TVs, curse survivors, and then let the clock tick down for them, no hooks required. My first match as Sadako, after a 1-2 month hiatus from the game, ended in a 4k with only one or two hooks.
idk i can never even give a sadako her mori they don't even seem to realize or care when it's an option
Honestly I think part of Freddy and Sadako’s kill rates are to their rarity. Even though they’ve been out for a while, it’s common to go weeks or even moths to play against one. It’s hard to learn counterplay
echo'd this, I feel like when I do see freddy or sadako, I just kinda try my best to win and then just forget about them after the match, then I dont see them again for what feels like forever, so I forget everything I learned in the previous match lol
Ngl you seem new if you “forget” how to play against those killers. They’re just basic m1 killers and all you have to do is listen to know where they are. It’s not like they have a power that could destroy you in chase lol.
@@alexwarren9730 nah but as someone who just barely plays, the teleporting is tough to deal with, especially if ur not good at looping like myself; combo that with solo Q and nobody on comms and it’s even more difficult
This, i forgot how to hag because i havent seen one in so long
@@munki1228 Yes so that's why their kill rates are still decent because there are so many new players, even at the top mmr there are still people with 200-300 hours who are very inexperienced at looping and being aware of their surroundings. It's basically like the old red rank system where experienced killers can win with any killer quite easily as the mmr system is very flawed.
I think a big reason you see Demo low at lower MMRS is because he's no longer available. Newer players can't pick him up so it's a matter of "volume of players"
Yeah, and I feel like the people that tend to play demo are generally more "friendly" and memey. or they're running his impossible to cleanse devour build.
But shouldn't it work in other way? If Demo is no longer available then its only available for players who already know how to play as him and their level of skill should rise on average. And also there more and more new players who don't know what is this killer and how to play against him (because there is no description for him in the game)
That’s kind of the opposite of what should be true. The few people that still have demo should all be veterans. They should be good
I'm confused. You aren't talking about kill-rates but rather general pick-rate at all MMRS, right?
If so, I think @Mythic here got the wrong idea. Just want to clear this up, don't want beef, tyvm have a nice day.
@@SentenceToDESU Except it means there isn't noob stomping to pad the kill rate percentage.
Since only veterans have him, he only faces veterans, which are likely to know how to easily outplay him. No one used to facing him will get hit by 8m shred, it's telegraphed and easy to sidestep while not saving time off pallet breaks unless you have barbs. Between that, and his teleport being weak without his addons to help it, means he is easy to drop to the bottom of kill rate.
Being only in veteran player matches would be a disadvantage when it's a killer easy to counter with such a low skill ceiling.
I honestly didn’t expect sadakos or pin heads kill rate to be so high.. and is this the 3rd otz video in 24 hours? Even if it’s not this is still wonderful, thank you for the upload Otz! 💙
pinhead 6 month ago was on a top.
@@Takano_Rin oh really? I never noticed! Thank you for telling me, I never looked at that actually.
I was thinking of this too… We should thank him more often, because he is giving us so good content. Love u Otz ❤
Us Sadako Simps, all ten of us that are left playing, are a persistent bunch. When everyone else stopped cueing up as her, we kept going and perfected our tactics.
Agreed thank you otzzzzz!
8:23 I think one thing to consider is that: characters like Pinhead, Sadako, and Wesker (all at the top) is basically NOBODY'S FIRST killer. By the time a player buys the DLC for one of these characters, they probably already have 70 hours minimum. In fact, all of the top 5 characters in 'All MMR' are all LICENSED characters: people may only invest real money after they've got some decent killer experience.
bro I've got 9 hours and bought Sadako tonight because Ghost Waifo go wooo
I disagree. I started a month or so ago on PC and pinhead was my #1 from then till now. I see now why he might have been so easy to play, but I think that saying people only buy DLC after they've played a lot is wrong. A lot of people might start playing because they saw someone they recognize and want to play them. Such as my case.
HARD disagree. I'd consider myself a low MMR person, and the majority of killers/survivors I see are paid. Not only that, but quite a lot of low hour people buy cosmetics. Just because you don't play the game religiously doesn't mean you don't wanna buy the fun characters.
I started when nemesis was the newest killer. I bought him very early on. Maybe only a few matches as doctor then decided to play nemesis a lot
I would like to see Trapper be able to reload traps in lockers rather than have to run around, would allow him to set up a lot faster and be more relevant. Also, make the brown addon where he doesn't set off his own traps should be base.
great idea, the only problem would be that how would that work? I guess putting a limit to how many traps he can grab from a locker, and setting a cap limit on how many can be reloaded.. unlike huntress and trickster that have unlimited times reload
I'd see a modern rework just have him throw live beartraps on the ground instead of doing an entire animation. Just frisbee it onto the target spot, trap set, magic. Also, make the color-change addons be camo, to make it slightly transparent maybe, just blend in with whatever's around.
I wonder if you could make it so that trapper could toss traps a distance away and only needs to ever go there to rearm them.
Just give him 5-6 traps in his hand to start and make the brown add-on base. That’s it. He will still be trash but at least better
Or he can just start the trial with all of his traps, like every other trap killer in the game.
In my experience in SoloQ, if Disconnects counted as kills, even the Nurse would have a 70% kill rate. :/
This is in Sept though not when the punishment was in
thats why its only 52%, if you included DCs, nurse is probably at the 75-80% range.
yeah if DCs were included everyone would have a much higher kill rate
the problem is that we, the players, have the capacity to distinguish between "kill DCs" that happen when someone is downed and they ragequit or people who just quit when they see that the killer is someone they hate and actually accidental DCs that occur in the middle of a long chase or while working on a gen far off in the distance
data itself cannot make this distinction, and rather than counting the accidental DCs they don't count any
then the question becomes "are kill DCs way higher than accidental DCs or is it the reverse?" and then it should be easy to see updated stats
@@fortherng3847 doesn't change the fact that all kill rates would be significantly HIGHER if they counted games with DCs.
@@donyates7300 Bro you are exaggerating a LOT, for the killrates to be so much higher is completely unrealistic, it would be a few percent at most around 5%. I'm sorry but anyone who has SOME feeling for percentages knows that even small changes are fairly significant and such a giant change would be completely unrealistic.
Besides, counting the dcs would totally fuck up the statistic simply because there are 4 survivors and just one killer, meaning survivors dc far more often because there are simply more survivors. It would make the killrates seem higher than they actually are + they obviously can't differentiate whether someone dced because of bad internet, because something in rl came up and they had to stop playing or if they just dced out of saltiness, so overall, it would fuck up the statistic completely.
just finished your weekly comp
you are doing us a favor !
I think the thing with Freddy in All MMRs is that new and unaware players are very very quick to go wake up instead of only doing it when needed or convenient. I remember when I first started I would spend ages running the entire map to the clock, and I have since learned that immediately waking up is not always mandatory. However, new players and below average players may not have learned this.
Also, speaking from experience, fakeout teleports will scare them off like 75% of the time. I would walk to a gen, fake the tele, and there would either be a gen explosion as they got spooked immediately and it happened during a skill check, or I’d see the figure of a survivor running away. Led to some very easy slowdown and hits.
So, just as a new Dredge, I think his high rank is because of how much map awareness he has, how disorienting it is to play against him as a new player, and his perk “Darkness Revealed” is a really good aura reading perk on him, as well as the entire stealth aspect. All on console, he is easy to pick up, can be really good and fun to play, and has a pretty ok perk set up.
Right? Looking at dredge on this list always felt like he's so high up joy because he's crazy op (he is strong imo don't get me wrong) but because he's so unbelievably fun. I'm someone who didn't even wanna touch killer I didn't like the game flow but dredge came out snf I bought him in a heartbeat and started the killer grind and I never had more fun. Cool design cool lore fun and strong power decent starting perks and the fact he's new probably bumps him up so high. Not to mention how unpredictable dredge can be. A lot of perks work great on him from gen kicking to hex perks to aura reading, his mobility makes all those perks feel extra powerful
Ive played the game for about 3 months and in that time i bought the dredge cause he looked pretty cool and i loved the lore and everything about him as a character. I was terrible playing as the other killers (nurse, trapper, etc) and so i was shocked how easy it was to play as the dredge, which is weird cause the guy in the vid said hes difficult to play as lol. His perks at the start are okay but its easy to get kills because teleporting to a locker could easily put you over by the survivors who are doing gens. Plus ive noticed not many survivors actually locking the lockers
Another piece of information I would REALLY like is to see the average hook stages per killer, maybe not as feasible but I think it would be a really nice metric to see how many hook stages each killer gets on average and how much that changes at higher MMRs.
If you've played a lot of solo queue you've definitely seen teams get destroyed because not everybody knows how Pinhead's cube works. Like a lot of things in game, it's not that hard to counter if you know what you're doing - but you have to rely on the other three survivors also having that knowledge in a solo match.
pinhead is easy to play against, I just deligate myself to cube solver, since my looping is above average.
It's because most solo queue plays would rather hide than be in chase
@@Zoeila at low mmr lol
Couple this with the fact that removing chains and vaulting pallets are the same button on console…
This may not seem huge, but as a pinhead main, you would be surprised how many slow vaults right into me have happened while in loop with a chained survivor.
Demo main here, the reason Demogorgon is so low is because of friendlies, being friendly as Demo is far easier due to them being rare and cute
I can confirm I seem to get noticeably more survivors that are friendly and chill by the end of the match when playing as Demo. Whether this is coincidence or confirmation bias I can't say, but it is something I've taken note of, and I'm far more likely to spare a survivor if they're being cool and fun.
Some of us are friendly killers, almost everytime, I give hatch to last person, if not then I would be getting 4 kills more often
Sadako/Pin Head/Blight noob here. I go for two hooks on each person then just chase for fun, gives stun, etc. Though I only started doing that after getting oppressed as a survivor. Turns out everyone gets more blood points when I play friendly (20,000 on avg)
I don't lol if will loop a demo or shred survivors as demo all the same
@@EdwinCristobal I let up to 2-4 escape per match, depending on how good they are or what stunts they pulling.
I think that the top killers at all mmrs are also there because of their confusing for new players powers. Like my first match against pinhead when I was new we got stomped because nobody knew how to stop a chain hunt. This kind of thing is present with the other top killers, sadako, spirit, plague etc.
This is what I was thinking as well. I think Otz very rarely interacts with the worst survivors in the game, they aren't the type to show up to his stream or watch his videos. They aren't going to know not to grab Sadako's tapes, or not cleanse against plague when you are barely infected, or whether Spirit is phasing or just standing still.
16:32
Sadako is high up because she's got great map pressure on top of being stealthy. In my experience, big maps are not an issue for her, especially with specific add-ons and how many survivors don't actually bother with T.V.s.
Sadako is trash at higher mmr if you play her like a normal m1 killer. She's only strong if you abuse her condemn which requires a pretty significant change in play. Otz is right about lower tiers where maybe merciless storm can get more value. Survivors don't bother with TVs because it is easier to win by gen rushing than respecting her power, which again only really comes into play if you are playing her a certain way.
@@XxDarkXxXSasuxX ye exactly, thats how she get her kill rate
@@XxDarkXxXSasuxX Depends how you play her i guess. Survs when i played her never bothered with TVs. which meant if i read right it was a free gauge increase and catch up if needed. On top of allows you to traverse the map at really great speeds if you get used to all the timings and where the TVs were on the map to where the survs go/gen locales.
Ultimately she's not amazing, especially if you take long chases without any way to use your powers. but i dont think she's as low as people think. Since she has a lot of ways to really mess with players when utilised. which i doubt explains how high of a killrate she has across all MMRs and even in the top 5% (even I thought she would've been lower) but i think it helps.
@@XxDarkXxXSasuxX she's also much smaller than most killers, and the blinking from the manifestation shenanigans CAN aid you in mind gaming
@@ptsmknbatgirl lol ok, still a killer with literally 0 chase power. Anti-loop potential is mid at best, and still worthless if you are going against high tier survivors
With the new health updates hit-run killers like her will be indirectly buffed, so she will be a little more viable, but not by much
19:30 I would hope that the devs are looking into the data more than what we're seeing. They can easily gather data on deviation numbers instead of just overall killrate percent. This will show if its a killer with a stable kill rate, regularly getting 2-3 kills that averages to 60%, or if the killer has a large deviation in kills (regularly getting 1k or 4k still averaging 60%)
Otz on a absolute uploading streak! Love it!
I’ll add one little thing to sadako on why she is so high up, I think that a lot of new players don’t know how her power works, so they’ll end up getting condemned without knowing what it means, I know I did, and me and my whole team died very quickly the first time I faced her
Also newer survivors are terrible in chases against M1 killers too and don't know how to loop or use pallets effectivel. A killer with no Terror Radius initially and the ability to teleport across the map is surprisingly effective at lower MMRs (which same goes for Freddy).
@@colossaldonut5190 onryo also holds the same number as oni though at 5% mmr
I figured out why Freddy is so high up, most of the people playing Freddy are playing from space, which makes his hits hit from two jungle-gyms away 🙃
Since it’s hard to adjust to that for survivors, it’s easy picking’s for the dream demon!
i laugh at this one, good job.
i think it's because bad/new survivors go to their clocks to wake because lullaby scares them
this is so true
feels like every freddy has an atrocious ping and hits way further than he should
TOME CHALLENGES are a good thing to point out too! I played Nurse (very poorly) last month JUST because of the like 3-4 Tome Challenges she had in Tome 12. Took me like 8 games to complete them, and never got a 4k.
Wesker is a great killer for beginners. His power is, well, powerful. Also, as you said, he has a built-in slowdown (the survivors have to spray otherwise they’ll be significantly disadvantaged). His add-ons are pretty good, and his ability isn’t too mechanically demanding. His hitboxes can be weird for sure, and his perks aren’t by any means meta, but they’re okay nonetheless.
I'd say his add-ons are okay but not good entirely, anyways yeah he is really great
I've been saying this for so long
Wesker is one of the strongest killers in the game. His power alone is just really freakin good, like, really good. Easy to get hits, mobility is nearly unmatched, zoning is amazing, and his infection provides instadowning or slowdown.
His terror radius provides somewhat of a built in stealth, kind of like doctor. If you always hear his terror radius, you're never going to know where he's coming from. (But it's not really as oppressive as I'm making it out to be, mainly for new players)
Even just the passive benefit of never having to take the time to pick up a survivor is huge when it's happening nearly every time you down a survivor
He does everything extremely well, but does nothing better than the obviously op killers like blight, nurse, spirit, artist
You forgot to mention that he's one of the best tunneler in the game and basically every wesker tunnel the first person they hit with the uroboros
@@Dwoppin excellent description especially about his power to zoning like it does nurse, blight, demo
@@boardglass6050 that one's easy to notice if you ever go against one since they are very likely to hard tunnel, i've found
This gave me an idea for one of those longer videos of yours- playing every killer on controller. Similar to your best builds on every killer video but could be fun/interesting to see how the experience differs on controller. Just a thought :D
I'm starting to see a lot of scam bots
@@tottoman768 wasap?
I think another part of the stealth killers featuring a bit higher than expected might be the spine chill change too.
100%
Spine chill got buffed for spotting stealth killers I thought? I thought they just removed the vault speed on it
@@jenericjoe7565 You’re right. Spine Chill’s information aspect was buffed. So stealth killers should be performing worse the more SC users there are. But people missed that the devs reversed course on the perk changes.
@@JoshuaSchonfeld People stopped using it as part of their vault speed build, which helped a lot. The wiki says the icon lights up if a killer is within 36m even if they are undetectable. But knowing when I am being stalked or ghost faced, is very good for stopping the instant downs. Without it, I can't easily see them as I don't know which direction they are coming from.
@@jenericjoe7565 it now only goes off if the killer has a direct line of sight on you and is within 36 meters, before it was just if they looked in your direction in that radius so you would tend to find out if a stealth killer was coming long before they actually found you or started stalking you. it's feature of visually telling you how far in the killers terror radius you are also won't work if there's no terror radius.
Being a demo main has a big advantage as survivors will always have less experience playing against him than the other killers, especially as time goes on and newer people join
Great video and explanations Otz, the high MMR Sadako > Condemn strat was something I didn't even think of so I'm glad you pointed it out. One bit of feedback though, I think it would have been better if the pickrate image you made was organized by % of picks instead of alphabetically. But that might just be me, gonna hop over to the stream now you're live
It's worth mentioning that the Sadako strat is like most Pig strats, in that it's not the killer's base kit at all, but add-ons doing most of the work. Tape-Editing Deck plus Iri-Tape are required on the build that actually makes Sadako dangerous, because as a "stealth killer", she's completely inept and very, very easy to loop. (a stealth killer who announces their presence and specific position every time they use their power...what on Earth was BHVR smoking?)
commie demihuman spotted
I believe Sadako is so high for all MMR also because of how new players are with the tapes and getting fully condemned, along with stealth and good perks. A new survivor sees a TV, feels they need to prevent Sadako from teleporting, and take the tape, applying some slow down and building condemned.
And that on high MMR, Sadako's focus on getting an early deathstare by harassing the same survivor over and over again, and because without any comms, this means that Sadako quite easily gets an early kill because there is no way to demand help without comms or perks(like Empathy).
Closing the gap between solo and SWF will lower Sadako's killrate significantly in high MMR.
I main sadako and you are completely right. I am surprised to no end to see survivors grabbing a tape at the start of the trial and maximizing their own condemn by the end of the end.
True, even at medium MMR i see people with tape acting like it's their treasure and then they die at 5 gens without getting hooked once.
@@Predated2 SWF is part of the kill rate and should be more common at the 5% top MMR.
At the top 5% this should not be a problem.
I would like to see the entire distributions per killer. That could show us whether the killers have a stable kill number or are either very low or very high.
How can they show this when mmr doesn’t mean anything? I’m guessing you mean against the top players because everyone knows you can win with any killer very easily against a weak team
@@alexwarren9730 What I mean is this: The kill rate number they are showing right now is the percentage of survivors killed each trial on average, i.e. 50% = 2 kills per trial on average. Otz said that many killers being at 60% is not a good thing in and of itself because a killer could be either very bad (low number of survivors killed) or very good (high number of survivors killed) and thus get a 60% because they calculate the average. That is why I wanted to see the entire distribution instead of just the average to see whether the kill number is stable around the mean or oscillates between the extremes. They could for example just throw the raw numbers into a histogram and show us that.
For me personally, I don't mind medkits that much as Ghostface. Mainly because I lean heavily into Ghostface's Stalking, and my favorite thing to do as him is instadown with his power. It can be hard on certain maps, but my experience as a Bone-clapper Ghost using Wraith helps me find unexpected angles to stalk survivors from.
I use Nurse's Calling and Sloppy Butcher on him. The amount of times I double stalk people because they try to heal and I find them is very high.
11:17 I think the effect that nightfall makes you see people in a very bright white also helps the dredge on lower levels ALOT. especially on maps wioth loads of grass and great ways to hide in plain sight this is strong for people not used to dbd. also he is fairly new and thus people in the beginning dont know how to act around him yet.
Yup. I've faced Dredge in a match only a few times at this point, so I'm still not exactly sure how to counter him most effectively.
One theory I have is the actual character itself can help with pick rate too. Like License characters like Freddy could be picked more by newer players cause he is so well known
Im surprised about doc, I never had much issue with understanding what he was about nor using his kit so seeing him on the low end is definitely surprising especially since if you have lethal pursuer and all 4 survs spawn together one static blast can set you up for the whole game as now everyone has permanent Madness 1, couple that with his discipline tree of addons I believe it was making it so doc can see hallucinations all the time and it becomes very difficult for players who aren't used to countering doc.
as someone whos watched some low mmr games I can tell you what it is that very new killer players overuse his power in chase. I've seen docs chase while m2 spamming even beyond t3 and whenever there isnt a risk of vault/action. Often they waste minutes especially if theyre the kind of new player that commits to one chase forever so even if the overcharge + awareness value comes into play they just never get downs.
@@thenecron9502 it's actually insane. Killer got a 2k not even a gen in. for some reason. I looped him. On the sign in front of ormand resort. U heard me right. No palette. A gen, a rock, and a sign. Sis let me loop her for 4 gens basically (also the epic nea on my team w self care. I got some flashlight saves as well) she was a streamer so it's a why I remember it so well. Pure shock abuse
As a Sadako main I very much agree with the beginner/mid MMR! I’ve played her since I got the game back in Feb. and use a Freddy as well as Huntress perks to help her out if speed is an issue. Get a pretty high kill score even though I don’t have all characters unlocked. Perks are amazing 🦀
I think sadako is so high with newer survivors and killers because I have a theory that the new survivors expected the bigger and more hulking killers like wraith or nemesis so they aim to look higher on their screen to look to see when they are even in their remote area so when a sadako just appears the survivors panic and don't think about trying to loop or look for the nearest pallet because they have been jumpscared by a sadako appearing they don't think properly
Another point about Wesker that I think you missed (or I missed you mentioning it) is that he does have some built-in slowdown with his Ouroboros infection and the fact you have to use first aid kits. Sure, it's not as much as Pig or Pinhead, but it's still there and Wesker is probably better than those two in other aspects explaining him being higher up
He said it but yea, fair point still !
He didn't miss that.
I loved your analysis of Dredge. As a noob survivor, the first time I played against Dredge, I'd never seen him and was unfamiliar with his powers. His terror radius was getting closer and so I hid in a locker and he immediately came out of it and got a grab. It resulted in an amazing scary moment that will always be one of my favorite early DBD memories. However, now that I know that and have been playing longer, I'd almost never hide in a locker against Dredge. Considering new and solo players who have never gone up against Dredge before (because at least as far as I've seen, he's not played very often at low MMR), he gets a lot of free grabs.
"It's Weskin time!" Said Wesker as he proceeded to wesk all over the roster
I play with friends that don't play DbD that often and whenever we go against a Dredge they run around like they are blind. To inexperienced players that don't have maps and loops memorised it is very difficult to deal with. When I play Dredge I also see a lot of survivors run into walls and run out into nothing even though you can still see the nearest pallet to you. Newer survivors just tend to panic and try to hide whenever nightfall happens.
I think you're underestimating how genuinely strong nightfall is on a bad TV/bright room
@@caratownsend1166 even on my pc in my normal brightness room it is painful to see. I don’t enjoy playing against him because of that
Consol players can't even see well the "white" things that are supposed to be seen :v
Talking about Dredge @10:26, I think you should mention that Darkness Revealed is huge against new survivors or solo players, especially on maps where lockers are more concentrated, or the RNG puts all the gens in range of a locker.
As an Onryo main I can also add that not many survivors have experience against Sadako. They don't know what to do or how to handle the TVs. Sadako has amazing perks, pretty good add-ons and is rather easy to play. She also, like Myers, has a secondary way to kill survivors which also adds to the percentage. Defending a 3gen is rather easy to do with her because of her great perks and insane mobility. Players seem to get confused when I teleport over the entire map in seconds and don't know to react to that
The night fall for dredge is definitely what bumps him up. I’ve played against veteran players and there reactions are priceless 💀💀. And it’s not that they don’t understand it but it racks there nerves and make mistakes faster than usual.
I'm not super high mmr I think but my problem with dredge is that my tv is on pretty dark settings to not hurt my eyes too much. I'm already struggeling to see on the darker maps to the point where I sometimes run into random walls that I could't see. When I'm facing dredge my screen is just completely black which is why it's my least favourite killer to ho against now
how to deal with dredge without windows of opportunity its nearly impossible during nightfall
I have lights not from the ceiling and I shade my windows. You can try changing your contrast/settings rather than the brightness.
I main Dredge, but i admit that Dredge on TV is just a nightmare, specially when there's people like you that can't play with high brightness/contrast. It's a shame that any fix towards this would pretty much make nightfall useless. I thought about a basic brightness settings in game, cause a lot of people play on TV or can't stand being too close to a bright monitor screen.
It would be interesting to be able to know which perks are the most use by each killers.
Another thing u see in the chart is that some of the top killers are licensed, don’t know if that changes too much but I know those characters enticed me to play the game as well, so people may have bought them when they got the game.
For me, I've exclusively been playing Wesker solely because of the Halloween event. He is new and the only one I didnt have P3, so when I leveled him up I got event offerings. And I just couldn't waste them haha
Thoughts on giving separate data for pc and console? It would show the obvious aim oriented and micro adjustment killers, but I feel there would be some weird discrepancies and also allow us to filter out problems based on gaming system
As a casual killer player, I like playing Sadako, in a chase against survivors that are not used to her, you can push/lead them toward the tv's then teleporting there to confuse them and builds up condemn stacks rapidly.
The add-on that gives condemn for healing is so good, i think it's part of the reason her kill rate is high, and is a good add-on for a more casual playstyle, cause you just need to injure survivors for it to work
As a pinhead main, it's pretty clear a lot of new players simply have no idea what's going on, ignorance might explain a lot of the unexpected stats here.
I also run Nemi a lot, and new players often go through obvious bad spots when contaminated like windows and pallets where getting a hit with the tentacle is easy for an experienced nemi.
I started playing when Pinheqd was added, and I had no fucking clue what was happening. The Lament Configuration can be very confusing to new players.
@@harrythegreat21person63 welcome to hell
I use double zombie add ons, and the zombies gives me info on where they are running around at and it also disrupts a lot of their generator runs. As I run dead man's switch too.
Love the vids bro, you helped me get into DBD keep it up! :)
Honestly, I like the expected kill-rate being around 60%. This game was initially inspired, and features characters from, many classic slasher films, where there's usually 1 survivor, with a second person getting away every so often. The kill rates as they are seem balanced to fit the inspiration, and I enjoy that. I mean, if me and 3 of my friends got trapped by a super-powered murderer, I'm pretty sure we'd be lucky to have one get out alive, let alone 2. Not that I don't get the 50/50 argument in terms of being a fair video game, but for immersion, I prefer things as they are.
This.
Horror experience and authenticity to those pop-cultural elements is all that really matters.
Game loses it’s charm if it becomes too easy to sway the odds in survivor’s favors.
Yes. As a newbie I feel dredge is the most scary killer, with the nightfall ability. Without window of opportunity I don't know how to loop him at all.
As a game designer; my own theory is skill ceiling, and skill floor; I have a design philosophy that gets me butting heads with some other designers but generally speaking, the wider the skill floor is from the the max possible skill ceiling for a character, the more likely that character is to be broken or balanced at the top.
This is why someone like Doomfist from OV2 gets his skill ceiling cut down, many designers lower the ceiling instead of the floor, and depending on where the skill ceiling, and floor starts will affect how good a character is.
Edit: also keep in mind the skill ceiling, and floor for counter play can affect how good the character itself is as well; meaning if a character has a lot of bad match ups it's not going to be that effective no matter how powerful it is, fighting games this is a great example.
Even how a map is designed can give too much counter play one way or another; and how you traverse a map or not can entirely effect how useful a character is.
A great example I could use is from Overwatch when moving with the team, if you know the map better than the enemy team, you can easily turn the tide in your favor even if you're bad at the game. Or in one case you can get a team wipe out all because you know how to effectively use the map against said character, exploiting a weakness of theirs, simple changes like this can entirely affect your ability to win, as thus why stages in Smash Bros tournaments don't allow stages with slight slopes even.
What games have you made?
The nurses stats are heavily influenced by something I call Nurse Aversion, I know a large group of DBD players won't even touch Nurse because they believe she is too strong. I have never played Nurse outside of a single custom match among friends, and everyone in my group is the same, and I believe a decent portion of the DBD community is the same. Noobs wouldn't be averse to Nurse, and could be drawn to her due to her infamy as being "OP" and they figure starting as her will help them out
im a casual player that would very rarely play nurse, on console.
Everytime they give up as soon as they hear the scream....like sometimes dc, usually they run at me, or go afk.
I hit MAYBE 70% of my blink hits, on a good day. I run information perks like dicordance, and spies.
@@donyates7300 It's even hard to get good at her, cause people don't really want to play against Nurse
I don’t play Nurse because I suck with Nurse’s power and don’t feel like putting in the time to get better at it on console, lel
@@weskerrun4647 not that hard, it sucks for the first 3 dozen or so games(or however long it takes for muscle memory) then you’ll be decent.
If you can hit 50% of your blinks, you’ll win most matches.
Especially versus solo Que.
Also, someone above stated, you’ll get lots of games with a dc after they hear the first blink, or you’ll get suicides.
Last game I played with her months ago, they all just stopped trying. I dced cause I know how they feel.
Nurse is a pain as solo Que, and I only run one slowdown on her.
Another really important point on the all mmr stats is that less popular killers seem to be a little higher up. This makes sense because the probability that the player who plays the killer is more experienced is higher
just saw this graph on stream yesterday and now he already has a 32 min video explaining every single detail, what a madlad
That's cause it takes 30 mins to realize how garbage these stats are. Would take hours to explain how to come up with any of this and thats if they even give evidence for their stats.
As a Dredge main, I can say that Nightfall does help to secure kills. Since Nightfall increases the speed at which you travel when teleporting to a locker allows you to cut off survivors during chase. That and some of Dredges Addons allow for some very strong setups throughout the game.
I'm also a Dredge main, and i don't think i'll never stop using builds focused on aura reading, it's so good to get grabs with darkness revealed.
Dude those videos are great , very informative for newer players , tyty
Sadako top tier killer 💅
SADAKO SWEEP
Devs should show the most dc'd against killers next and what survivors dc the most LOL
Easily nurse and blight. Maybe 4 slowdown plague and legion I guess
It’s the top 5% of the killers mmr so basically it might as well be the top 20% or whatever the soft cap is because you are playing against survivors that are of that skill bracket. It basically means if you’re in the myers or sadako region and you win a lot with them, then you are probably very good at the game.
So for Sadako, I can share a bit of my own experience that might provide insight (newish - med-level killer). I recently picked up Sadako and started playing her after not playing for a long time so I was at the lowest ranks of matchmaking starting out, then started moving up to mid-level (Silver II so far).
I actually have found with her at lowest levels, she gets an *incredibly* strong start against newer survivors. They don't seem to recognize the TV's so don't know there's a Sadako on the roam, and get themselves cornered easily at match start which is huge for any killer. Though other stealth killers can do this as well, because I had some of the most common killer perks teachable before picking up Sadako, I was able to go into matches with Pop and Call of Brine, which through to mid-level ranking was devastating survivors since I could chase down, hook, then teleport back through a TV to always pop the exact gen I wanted. Combined with Sadako's very strong low level addons against low-mid level players makes her very strong against newer players. I'm running 50% invisibility duration, and -6 meters visibility range while demanifested, and probably half the matches I play or more I have someone at the start just run into my M1 range by themselves not realizing I'm there until it's too late.
Getting pop/call of brine combo right off the bat, against low level survivors, with the common very strong start of survivors not recognizing the killer and mispositioning against her short range visibility I think is why Sadako does so well in overall.
Ur color grading (silver, ash, iridescent) is not ur sbmm rank.
@@sleepyking4558 For sure, but unfortunately I can't see my MMR, so instead I used the colour grading as a means of representing the general MMR range which I've been playing through. Due to the length of time since last played, one would assume starting at 'default MMR', and the range would increase to an approximate amount one would achieve while getting from ash V to Silver II.
While it's not 1:1, it's the best representation made available without using third party tools that I'm aware of. I fully appreciate that MMR is a separate system though, and apologize for not making that more clear.
How about the argument that killers which are behind a pay wall or needs to be unlocked with shards have a better killrate. Because these are bought by players who are more likely to 1: invest in the killer and 2) already have a understanding of the game mechanics
Another thing that you didn't mention:
Many bad killers tend to not buy the killer DLCs, so killers like dredge are played mostly by "better than average" players so it would kill more
Source?
Yea nah plenty of terrible people still bih the killer dlcs. And many many people who play these killers are definitely average or below. They are just playing against survivors who are also below average and don’t understand how to play against them.
@@sleepyking4558 I'm not saying that only good people buy him, but that the average would be slightly better since many starting players don't have him
@@TheRealMycanthrope it was foretold by a mystical non-camping bubba!
Joking aside; people just starting tend not to buy every single dlc, and only buys the killer's pack or the famous ones they recognize like demo or myers.
So we are left with the good ol' farming, and even there i bet they would aim to the thicc-er killers before buying him or the twins
Personal theory for top 5% cannibal is that most top players have a zero hits mindset when they see bubba while it's easier to overestimate your situation with other killers almost everyone understands that if bubba catches you it's ggs
I think an underrated reason for many of the “overall” (low) MMR top tier killers is their height. Beginner and average players won’t be able to play around shorter killers’ mindgames at filler pallets. The lowest winrate short killer is hag at 59% which I think backs this theory as well as explaining the inflated freddy numbers (although I di think his “stealth” factor puts him at a high wr% by default at lower MMR
It looks like the top killers (in all MMRs) are generally ones you pay for as well (with a few exceptions). More experienced players are more likely to play with them.
Trapper buff: Trapping a survivor makes Trapper briefly Undetectable.
Literally useless buff
@@levirift9218 I don't know man, getting grabs and free hits off Tinkerer's Undetectable element is pretty gratifying.
If that doesn't do it for you what about.. Trapper but fluent in French?
Seeing Dredge doing sort of okay brings me happiness, I always do terribly with him, now I see I can do better
I get wrecked by Dredge and Nemesis players.
Dredge, i feel, is the easiest killer to setup a 3 gen situation.
While Nemesis has too much info from Zombies along with a wonky tentacle hit box
He's soooooo boring to face. Sry, if you are a Dredge main but it feels like Behaviour's latest original killers are all visually amazing (Artist, Dredge, Trickster) but facing them and playing them is super frustrating and boring. Meanwhile, Sadako, Nemisis and Mastermind are actually fun!
@@23lizardking I wish the killer queues allowed me to main anything 😂
Stealth killers are like the only killers im worried about. The other ones i love running in circles and tossing pallets on them. The ability to distract tunnel visioned killers for up to several minutes is beneficial always even if it ultimately results in you being hooked. The stealth characters are all annoying in some way, are hard to keep track off, and usually once you see them, its after being hit.
It was said by someone in chat on Monday’s stream; in all MMRs the reason for some of the strange killers in the high kill rates is that they have “unusal” mechanics. Dredge: nightfall, Plague: cleansing (especially lower MMR and solos not knowing when to cleanse), Pig: dealing with beartraps, Freddy: clocks (lower MMRs wake up with clocks ALL the time), Wesker: first aid sprays + unsual m2 attack, Sadako: TV’s (especially with the tape addons) and Pinhead: the box. For new people, casual players and solos, these things are very critical and I believe it boosts their rates significantly.
Great video as always Otz, thank you so much for breaking these things down!
Another thing to consider with Sadako, despite not being good in chase, she's super short, and her passive phasing is immensely confusing at times. I've gotten a noticeably greater amount of hits around safe pallet loops by trying to use demanifest in chase or trying to use height to my advantage.
The ability to teleport on TV is also really useful. It allow you to surprise survivors by faking a chase and coming back on a Gen that you know they are doing. With the perk that make them oblivious near a TV, you'll get some good result.
@@BobWolf006 True. I haven't quite gotten to that level, but I'm definitely trying!
@@elimoser7546 If you see 2 survivors on a gen,, chase one. If it's too hard to get your second hit, you can quickly come back by teleporting. Survivors will 95% come back to finish the gen and prevent hit from regressing too much.
We've met a couple Cenobites that all they did was chase their box from the very start. They'd find it in no time, or they'd catch one of us picking it up or around. They activate the box, and boom, 90% of the game you have chains chasing you, so it makes the game both a nightmare and mostly unwinnable. Bear in mind, his focus is always picking up the box, even dropping chases to pick it up. I found that strategy incredibly op.
If you try solving the box and the bar is red you know you're in for a painful game
So, I think Dredge is up there because it is a stealth, information and mobility killer all in one. For new survivors I imagine it to be very overwhelming to play against him, as you have so many things to keep in mind. Especially with Nightfall.
Dredge(Plague) are in low and High MMR strong not like nurse where you need skill to play.
Maybe need a right adjustment
killers doing comebacks in 1 word: NOED
Fun fact, when I played vs cenobite - he always tunneled and camped survs. Really every time if someone got unhooked he was hitting and chasing unhooked surv
Every killer has one dude that camps a hook. Personally the fun of Pinhead is the pallet game. Hitting people in the back makes them panic and they're too slow to play ring around the rosie.
no shot im actually early af
Same
The early stabber gets the frenzy down? xd
Same here Tat!😊
proof?
dc
Seems like built in slow down (in whatever way) is king. Followed by built in mapwide mobility. Which sort of explains Sadako but... not really. The top 5% is it's own thing and I hope BHVR doesn't balance the game around what a small portion of the population is doing to one another.
Except the game SHOULD be balanced with the account for pros in mind (See League of Legends).
Otherwise, experienced players will simply cyber-bully weaker ones.
My theory why Sadako is so high is because she's easily the spookiest killer in the game. I know she's weak but I get so much anxiety when I face a Sadako that I know I'm messing up things I usually don't.
Satako is one of my killer mains and I hook survivors often but condemn does play a role as I have her two stronger add-one but my goal isn’t to completely focus on it
The one thing that jumps out to me from the 5% MMR chart is that abilities which help killers with the macro game are better than abilities which help them in chase. Take a look at the top nine killers on that chart:
- Wesker has built in slowdown from infection, Bound for extra mobility, and gets some information from spray pings
- Plague can get infections passively without having to be in chase and can pressure survivors to use fountains periodically.
- Dredge and Sadako both have solid map mobility, and Sadako has built in gen pressure in the form of getting survivors to periodically deal with Condemned stacks.
- Oni has very good map mobility while charged up and some tracking from blood
- Pinhead's Chain Hunt is solid mapwide pressure and survivors have to periodically get off gens to deal with the box. (Plus the teleport is a bit of pressure too sometimes.)
- Blight has top tier map mobility
- Nurse is maybe the least "macro" of these killers but even she can use Blinks to get around map clutter and walls efficiently
- Spirit has good map mobility with her phase.
When you then compare those killers to the ones on the bottom of the list (e.g. Trapper, Huntress, Deathslinger, Clown, Bubba) a lot of those lower bracket killers have weaker macro games.
So basically I suspect the community tend to somewhat overvalue abilities which directly help in chase and undervalue abilities which help the macro game and that's why they are surprised when killers like Dredge and Sadako show up really high both charts. I think it's a mistake to discount abilities which help with macro-level strategy.
Sadako can actually get insanely close to survivors with her teleport, and if her TV is just out of sight of the gen, odds are she can run right up on a survivor and grab them right off the gen before her terror radius goes back up.
Sadako is so high cuz nobody plays her thus nobody knows how to play against her🤣
Sadako main btw
WHAAAAAT. I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE.
Yeah I've had a game where 2 ppl died to condemened at no gens done because of the iri tape add-on, I was soloq
@@viniciusespindola7238 yea Iri tape and ring drawing together easy condemns
@@WillowTheGremlin Theres a few out there Ryuga is a P100 Sadako, Onepumpwillie is like P83 Sadako im only P10 rn
Otz I'm not saying I'm a great player but since all my experience is on console and I'm a Pinhead main, and his power has by far the biggest difference in usability between controller and mnk. I know the sensitivity is limited either way but it's not like Blight where you either go left or right, using Pinhead's power against good survivors on mnk can be unbearable. The reason he has the highest killrate overall is definitely because of how powerful his slowdown is against solo que survivors especially when paired with slowdown perks. I actually don't have a hard time playing Blight and Nurse but I really have a hard time using Pinhead's chains efficiently and I really feel like I'm not able to enjoy my favorite franchise because for some reason DbD is one of the only forced crossplay (you'll never find a match with it disabled) games that doesn't have mnk support on console and I experience lack of mnk support as more of a detriment to my ability to enjoy the game than I do cheaters
I would be interested to see more info around DCs, as especially in high mmr that could account for some of the unexpected kill rates. Its not rare for me in solo queue to get into a lobby and have one player dc because they hear nurse blink, and then everyone just DCs following it, which assumedly would count, for these stats, as 4 out against a nurse? 4 man DCs aren't super common but against things like iri head, and in cases where people dc on hook or while being slugged to death, they can't just be completely ignored. It would be interesting to compare kill rates when DCs are counted as kills rather than not counted.
Two things I think are also really important to consider are:
DC Rate - Some killers are much more DC prone, like Doctor and Nurse, and annoyed players in losing matches are more likely to DC, which would skew the statistics of those killers. Seeing how much people DC against each killer can give an insight on how much people think they are unfun or are fed up with them.
Add-on Pick/Win/DC Rate - This would be really useful to see if any particular combination of add-ons are "carrying" some killers or are traps who pull their rates down.
What makes dredge so strong is that a lot of players are highly dependent on lockers and for some reason against dredge players never enter lockers. So they are basically playing handicapped. The reason sadako is so high is because from my experience a lot of players don't do TV's massively increasing her ability to hop around the map.
I suspect that Sadako's high kill-rate at "all MMR" has a lot to do with new players not understanding her 'Condemned' mechanic, so they get mori'd.
I think it's also partly because they have a hard time seeing when she's manifested or not. I know for myself, I have a hard time seeing because of bad vision and can't ever really tell unless I can see her red stain pretty instantly. xd