{44} Quick comparison of three very capable EPROM programmers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Of the 12 programmers I have, I only use three on a regular basis. These are the XGecu TL866II Plus, the Martin Eberhard ME2700 orphan programmer, and the Willem PCB6.0E SPI/EPROM programmer. Interestingly, there is actually very little overlap between the capabilities and purpose of these three. For $50, the XGecu is by far the most versatile but can be glitchy on the software and has an 18V programming limit. The ME2700 comes as a bare board & build kit, is the only one that can handle the 2708 EPROMs (12-26V programming) and, by far, is the best documented and is about $55 for the bare board and PIC processor. The Willem PCB6.0E (12-25V) is the only one that can handle chips bigger than the 2732 that programming voltages above 18V, is a complete SPI programmer, and still comes in around $50 fully assembled.
Both the ME2700 and the Willem PCB6.0 offer superb technical support.
CORRECTION:
I said in the video that the external adapter is required for the PCB6.0 to use the higher programming voltages, that was a mistake and is incorrect. The external power supply is required to have Vcc voltages above 5V. The PCB6.0 with just USB is 5V but with the external supply it can go up to 6.2V
UPDATE:
KEE electronics has confirmed that the PCB6.0 will not work with USB to parallel adapters and even laptop parallel ports can be problematic.
Links to programmers:
TL866II
www.autoelectric.cn/en/tl866_m...
Martin Eberhard's 2700 Orphan Programmer
drive.google.com/drive/folder...
KEE Electronics Willem PCB6.0E
www.keeelectronics.com/catalog...
keeelectronics.com/pcb60lpt.html
Keep it up, nice video clip, thank you for sharing it :)
Thx for sharing your experience.
I'm an absolutely noob without any programming experience ^^
But i'm interested in programming EPROM Chips from synthezisers and stuff like this. :)
Happy new year from Germany.
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, there is a lot of overlap in the music, vintage gaming, and vintage computer hobbies.
The Andromeda Research EPROM+ System (www.arlabs.com) support begins with the 3 supply 2708 (26 volts) without an adapter. Also easily processes Intel HEX files and more.
I was just looking at your website, a nice capable and expandable system. I didn’t see on your site that your programming voltages went to 26, so that is good information to know. The 8755 isn’t listed with the other 875x devices and requires its own specialized $79 adapter? Handling even modestly complicated intel hex files properly seems to be a lost skill, so hopefully that works as advertised.
@@HelloWorldETX We've been around since 1982 which is why we support first generation eproms (2708 and others). Hex and S-Record files are handled based on the record type so they will load correctly. You can also redefine the buffer start address if you're processing large hex files. The reason the 8755 is not in the 87 series devices is that it's a memory I/O device not a microcontroller. We use adapters for non-jedec devices. Also we're a US based company so we really can't compete with the devices which come from China. The reason I posted the comment was to make folks aware that there is an instrument that supports the 2708 through 27C080 plus lots more. One last item. You mentioned in your video lack of documentation. Our product includes a printed manual which covers installation, operation and includes schematics. We also provide schematics for the system adapters if a DIYer wants to build their own. Email if you have any questions (arlabs@fuse.net).
I picked up one of Andromeda's units because it could handle a lot of older chips that crop up in retro systems. It's a more costly unit if you need adapters but I picked mine up from eBay from a gent that was retiring. Also, just a quick edit, they are extremely good at communication and have tons of information on their web site about most PROM/EPROM/EEPROM support dating back pretty much to the first PROMs. It's worth the read.
I have the XGecu TL866II and downloaded the software update and now it doesn't support the very EPROM that I programmed with it. Any clues on what's up with that? I just bought the Willem PCB6.0E SPI/EPROM programmer willy nilly before realizing I need that port. Don't know how I'm going to remedy that yet...
Good information. I downloaded the update but had not installed since I didn’t happen to have rar decompressor on that computer ( and then completely forgot about the update). However, at least before the update, their software still does not properly handle intel hex files that are spread at different locations within the eprom. As for the willem pcb6.0, I understand an actual add-on parallel port card works OK, just not a usb to parallel adapter. The company that made the willem also has a true USB programmer they say will do 2732s and have emailed questions about it on a few occasions but have not received any response after multiple attempts.
If you are doing all of this for the SBC-85 single board computer, recently released version 2 of that board has universal eprom sites and can handle up to 32K
I would like to get an universal programer for all automotives units ; engin control modul (ECM), engine control module (ECM)? Transmission Control Module (TCM), airbag electronic crash unit, Suspension Control Module (SCM) ......(they work with 12 V)
which programmer is switeble for those automotive units, please I need your advice.
Sorry, I can’t be much help I don’t know what devices are used in these.
Hi, did you find the good One?
Hi, did you find the food One?
Very good comparison, answered my questions about the Xgecu as my programming needs are the same as yours. I have the Willem programmer but in addition to keeping an old PC with a native parallel port, I'm having trouble with it recognizing the board ("Hardware Error" and the software won't install on Windows 10 machines. Plus there's the question of whether USB to parallel adapters will work, as most Win 10 machines won't have parallel port hardware. Any suggestions about these issues would really help users because as you say it's really the only option for those of us who need to program 2716-2764s.
I can confirm the Willem will NOT work on a USB to parallel converter.
I would love to be able to try them all out and compare but I can’t justify buying any more programmers. But there is the andromeda system mentioned earlier in the comments (by that company) and then there is the new willem. It seems like there has been a separation between the original willem and the current manufacturer. The new willem is called a True-USB PRO GQ-4X V4 Willem Programmer. But I have NOT used one of them so cannot recommend or advise.
@@ccproperty1519 Thanks! I gave up trying to make my PCB35 work and ordered a RG-055 True-USB PRO GQ-4X V4 Willem Programmer which is a modern USB design that can program the older 21 and even 25 volt devices that I need.
There are a few USB to parallel adapters that will act completely like a standard parallel port but nearly all of them do not implement the entire IEEE standard with regards to I/O line control and some other details.
Have you tried the XGecu T56? Apparently it's their somewhat newer programmer that can do up to 25V and has more chip support, but the price is a little too steep for me - around $150. I was wondering if anyone had used it yet. I have a TL866 II and it seems like they are still updating it so that's nice, found a newer version today, apparently I had fallen behind like six versions.
I have not tried the T56. One persistent and frustrating problem with XGecu has been their software’s inability to handle intel hex files properly. I have pretty much given up on XGecu so I am looking around for something that works properly.
@@ccproperty1519 I've seen a lot of companies that make programmers, cheaper ones like the TOP2013 (probably a clone), SOFI makes a few models - www.sofi-tech.com/devlist.asp?model=SP8-A , Orange, BK Precision, etc. If you're looking for something professional with support, speed, frequent updates and all that, then probably Xeltek - unfortunately the price tag for their stuff is out of my league.
Dacke i would be happy enough with one that just did what it promised. What about the Willem “true USB”, anyone use it?
these are the only modern ones I have, the rest are all vintage and have their own quirks and annoyances. For these three, each do at least one thing very well, all have drawbacks, and none are perfect. Will be hard to justify laying out any more cash for another programmer. But it is a bit annoying having to go from programmer to programmer depending on what I am programming that day.
@@ccproperty1519 Perhaps you can convert an Intel Hex format file to a binary file first. There got to be programs out there that can do this. Python is fun to program with.
Dangerous or not, I've programmed EEPROMs with an external 25 V source connected to the right pins (see specific EEPROM data sheet) of the socket (TL866II Plus).
Now *there* is an idea.
I've done a similar thing with some old EPROMS that need a higher programming voltage.
I built an adapter for them.
...so which eeprom program will work on a post 2011 western digital sata hard drive rom or Seagate sata hard drive??
I am stuck in pre 1985 so would not be much help in answering that.
Great video, I’m trying to get a hold of a Martin Eberhard’s 2700 Orphan Programmer do you have a link or information where I can get a hold of one?
I have toyed with the idea of buying a few kits from Martin and putting them on my tindie store just to make them more readily available, but haven’t gotten around to that. In the mean time, if you go to the the SBC-85.com project website at the very bottom is an email address. You can send me an email with your request and contact info and I will forward that to Martin and so he can contact you directly.
@@HelloWorldETX Thank you, I got ahold of Martin after a lot of searching. Ordering one to program C2708's on my new to me IMSAI 8080:)
Very good video! Does the XGecu TL866II Plus work on Windows 10 64bit? I await your prompt response and greetings from Argentina!
Yes, I am not sure that I have updated to the latest version of the software, but I am running it on a 64 bit W10 machine
@@HelloWorldETX
Thanks for your quick response! It would be nice if you can make a video showing the use of the XGecu TL866II Plus software and its functionalities. Greetings!
@@midwayale thanks for the suggestion. I will look around but I suspect there are already so software / operation videos for the TL866 since it is quite popular. My favorite feature (and the function I use the most) is testing logic gates and ICs
hello - I have an old [80s] film processor that uses eproms to program steps in any particular film process. I have no experience in this regard. Is it possible to create such an eprom? What is the expertise level required? Thanks.
I presume you have no documentation for the equipment?
Using eproms for lookup tables is a classic application.
I think I would start by reading the existing eproms and see if it is possible to correlate the eprom contents with a particular process parameter. I presume we are looking for things like bath temperatures, roller speeds, exposure times, aperture settings, etc.
Hopefully when a recipe is selected, the machine reads those parameters from EPROM and doesn’t access the eprom again until the process is changed.
If you have access to a logic analyzer, I would watch where the machine accesses data and what data is retrieved. Then switch between processes that have *all but one* parameter in common or *only* have one parameter in common. Then create a map for which parameters change or do not change between processes.
It is going to be an exercise in organization.
@@HelloWorldETX thanks for the reply! The machine is an 80s king concept enterprise processor. There is actually room in the machine for 3 proms. You could order special proms for what ever process you wanted to do. Ive had this done in the past, but that machine and the company is long gone. I came upon a working unit a few years ago and would like to have the same thing done. I have general computer skills, but im no programmer. there are 3 proms in the unit. each can be replaced with a special programed prom. If one had one of the proms would it be easy to modify it?
@@dr5chrome896 this guy has already reverse engineered and will make you an EPROM. Of course he isn’t disclosing any details about how the parameters are stored
www.tk-imaging.de/ATL1000.html
How about a 5 volt only for "JEDEC single-power-supply Flash standard" EEPROMs like the Am29F800BB?
I would just use the TL866. It is the easiest to use with more modern ICs.
@@HelloWorldETX $60 and it requires an I/O expanding adapter... guess I'll keep looking.
Do you know what device I need to use to program 68HC05C plcc?
A Motorola
MC68HC05PGMR-2 programmer board?
midondesign.com/Documents/68HC705C8AMD.PDF
it looks like a few homebrew kits have been made over the years.
a quick search turned this up--but i have never used one.
www.vipprogrammer.com/motorola-705-programmer-mc68hc705-eprom-programming-device-programmer-549
Use Tl866 CS old version for 21V programming as it is extremely cheap 20$ and it programs Motorola ROMS
I have done this a lot
Hmm. Isn’t it interesting that both the TL866A and the TL866 CS could both go to 21V but they dropped that capability on the latest version.
Yes they dropped the 12V support as no new chips use that high voltage and the tl866 plus is more for modern day use and supports NAND flash as well.
I do own a CS version for vintage stuff and an Plus version for all the modern things.
The market for vintage tech is very narrow and is decreasing day by day so there is no future need for 21V
The same support is also available is SB 100 programmer but the software is very limited.
The other method to deal with this high voltage programming is to use 4040 counters for addresses, arduino for data and an external 21V smps supply controller through Mosfet.
Is Data I/O still around? I have been so out of touch since uh... yesterday.
I think they are. I would expect data i/o devices to have the ability to program vintage chips, but I would not expect them to be in the price range for hobbyists.
The company does not support its previous products. They will orphan you in a heartbeat just to sell you another burner. I bought the TL866CS and was orphaned four months later when they dropped all support for it, including dropping it from later revisions of their programming software. So I'm stuck at revision 6.85 forever. Thanks for nothing.
When I got mine, I saw they were making a big deal about counterfeiters copying their design and so all the old versions were being destroyed. If I were to hazard a guess, it would be that they didn’t want to write code for counterfeit products and threw legitimate customers under the bus along with the old model. If there is good news, it is the tl866cs can program 21v devices as I understand.
:O
Hello, hello world.