He went to Clown School, dabbled a bit in Mime, but also had a side of Criminal Justice and Psychology, so he could learn how to read and anticipate people's actions.
Now if you could somehow get it to make intelligent decisions based on a configurable input delay (i.e. human reaction time) this would really be the ultimate Melee AI!
The lag varies based on the point in the game (input polling is not synced up with drawing of new frames, meaning sometimes inputs are polled right after a new frame is drawn meaning there's a whole frame until the next frame is drawn aka 1 frame lag and sometimes right before a frame is drawn meaning no lag, and everywhere in between) and what point on the screen you're looking at (since CRTs scan top to bottom, idk how monitors work). So it ranges from about 3.6 frames to 5.4 frames. There's a reddit thread I believe kadano or dantarion or one of those other melee tech wizards posted detailing there method. I'm kinda lazy to find it tho, sorry. Generally speaking, 18 frames is a good number to use for the whole of the reaction process, including the time it takes for the screen to display something up until the button input is pressed in response. This is the maximum reaction time usable for reaction tech chases, which *some* players seem to be able to do ~consistently.
Just a quick FYI, TH-cam looks at the height or the width, not both, when determining video quality and resolution, so there's no good reason to pad a 1440x1080 video to 1920x1080 via "burning" black bars into the video (and it just ends up with black bars on all 4 sides if viewed in fullscreen on something like a display with a 3:2 aspect ratio).
Funnily enough I think that you're friend is still right, this is not necessary a competitive AI this is a Tool Assisted Artificial Intelligence (TAAI for short), there is no way to compete against it, it always counters everything you do, while a true competitive AI would be one that learns your tendencies be it mistakes or approach options and punishes you for it which would be the closest thing to a human, when you make an AI that reads your moves and counters everything you pretty much create a wall that doesn't benefit anything, but if you create a smart human like AI you give someone the opportunity to learn and improve by repetition. A challenge is fun, but trying to defeat the impossible is not.
0:40 Lol, an AI probably knows all it's and your frame data as well and can determine which move is optimal based on that. No way you can beat a (decently written) bot at a reaction based game.
This is all fine and dandy, but until we see SmashBot take on the god that is lv 9 Ganondorf, my soul cannot rest in peace. IT WILL BE THE ULTIMATE BATTLE!!
I'm not sure how but I managed to get Smashbot to SD by jumping around the ledge alot. So I suppose if the player where to get lucky and have it happen 3 more times they COULD win. I'm on ubuntu btw in case you wanna look into it.
Cool from a Melee perspective. Looking at the source takes away all the magic though lol. I'd be more interested in seeing a bot that's more naturally extendable to other characters and one less reliant on hard codes, even if it was less bulletproof. Fun stuff though
I get where your friend was coming from about "high level thinking" but Fox at a peak level of play is so broken that you could have an AI just destroy anything lol
It sucks. I beat it in 10 seconds... just jump on the edge until it shines you off then use your b to get back on stage.. it just falls off and freezes up.
Things to try: Falco aireal+shine camping- Fox laser(maybe?) and aerial+shine camping- peach float attack camping It looks very reactive based so as long as u get some sort of hit in thne don't leave any openings for it to hit u back u can just time it out. it IS probably possible I don't have a mayflash otherwise I would try
The only issue I have with Fighting game AI is that it's impossible to make it "good", just perfect. You can't teach an AI gamesense, but you can give it the ability to react to your inputs the same frame you do them on.
Can I do this with the dolphin emulator? I wanna try it against all the AIs, plus it would be useful to unlock characters for the game on the emulator as well. :)
Smashbot was always a little boring to me because it was never given parameters in which it's supposed to extrapolate and make probability predictions. It reads the game frame by frame and reacts to rolls, di in a way to make the game uninteresting. If smashbot was "blind" to 10-15 recent frames it'd be a lot more interesting and would probably behave a lot more humanlike, especially if the reaction time of the bot varied like a humans would. I don't mind the perfect execution, that's just cool
Its 2051, Smashbot has now collapsed the world economy and caused world war 4. The internet has collapsed. No one plays smash because they are focused on survival. Smashbot is the best in the world.
I don't think it's fair for the bot to have perfect reaction time, your just proving that perfect shielding is unbeatable. It would be much more interesting to see how a man made brain would fair against a pro, without the advantage of being able to read directly from the players controller inputs
@@SpaghettiParmesan64 there’s “as good as is possible” and there’s “as good as is possible under the constraint that it is only gets the information that a human player would have access to” (like, can only see the screen, though, because the vision processing part is largely incidental to the problem, it might be a good enough approximation to just give the position of the models on screen plus what each current animation frame is. But opponent controller inputs seems a bit cheating?)
odd argument, melee takes too much strat and thinking for an ai to be good at it so an ai could never - thats the things ai are best at; micro second level of thinking and perfect strats
Lmao. "Too much high level thinking and strategy". I'm dead dude. Fighting games, much like physical sports are almost entirely reaction based and instincts. Sure fighting games have the extra level of frame data to learn, but other than that it's all reaction based. Of course a computer can be programmed to dust us humans in Melee. This guy essentially used the classic Todd Rogers excuse of the us not accounting for the "human element" for a world made up of 1s and 0s.
I for one welcome our new melee overlord.
the year is 20xx "we saw the fox meta coming, but not like this... it was never supposed to be like this"
simpsons reference?
@@alienstrike2222 it's more widespread than just simpsons but yeah they've done the same bit
Axe smashed it with sheik lmao
I want to fight this thing.
That's a good video idea, you can add it to slippi so you can get bodied lol
Sup Omni
@omni do you play netplay? I wanna play you :D
Old omni comment, cool.
bet, fight him right now
I challenge M2K to play against SmashBot
with marth of course
Bot playing another Bot.
M2K would win easy
@@blobfish1649 This comment is 4 years old
@@brockpiano Lmao I didn’t even notice
What kind of educational background do you have? I'm curious to know.
Education in Smash tournament torture
I’d assume comp science
He went to Clown School, dabbled a bit in Mime, but also had a side of Criminal Justice and Psychology, so he could learn how to read and anticipate people's actions.
@@karanoelle4819 Sounds like the description of someone who got their ass handed to at melee tournaments one too many times.
@@karanoelle4819 sounds like Penn Jilette
did you end up fixing the strategy I figured out to win?
if so, I'm down for a rematch lol
+AltF4 I'm down! I'll see you at the next local!
AZaxe now you got 4 stocked.
Noob
Now if you could somehow get it to make intelligent decisions based on a configurable input delay (i.e. human reaction time) this would really be the ultimate Melee AI!
***** Not RNG. Just feed it info that's 12-15 frames old.
***** Don't forget Melee itself adds a few frames. Close to 5 according to most sources.
The lag varies based on the point in the game (input polling is not synced up with drawing of new frames, meaning sometimes inputs are polled right after a new frame is drawn meaning there's a whole frame until the next frame is drawn aka 1 frame lag and sometimes right before a frame is drawn meaning no lag, and everywhere in between) and what point on the screen you're looking at (since CRTs scan top to bottom, idk how monitors work). So it ranges from about 3.6 frames to 5.4 frames. There's a reddit thread I believe kadano or dantarion or one of those other melee tech wizards posted detailing there method. I'm kinda lazy to find it tho, sorry.
Generally speaking, 18 frames is a good number to use for the whole of the reaction process, including the time it takes for the screen to display something up until the button input is pressed in response. This is the maximum reaction time usable for reaction tech chases, which *some* players seem to be able to do ~consistently.
what's the point of an ai if it doesn't do frame-perfect multi shines? then it just becomes another forgettable human fox player
The guy said there is too much high level thinking
Melee being a busted ass game: A R E Y O U S U R E A B O U T T H A T ?
Honestly laughed out loud over that
can you do smashbot vs smashbot?
They probably wouldnt even hit each other XD
Joey Daniewicz
But with some changes added.
Unstoppable force meets immovable object...
Hey, update from the future, they get stuck in a multishine/waveshine loop and always clank their hits
this video has no fluff. i'm slightly giddy from all the time i suddenly have on my hands
SmashBot will now begin it's tear of jv 5 stocking every top professional melee goer in the world.
So the algorithm brought us all here after four years.
Not me, I was searching for whether there were any good melee bots.
I want to see SmashBot do a 100% speedrun of this game
Just a quick FYI, TH-cam looks at the height or the width, not both, when determining video quality and resolution, so there's no good reason to pad a 1440x1080 video to 1920x1080 via "burning" black bars into the video (and it just ends up with black bars on all 4 sides if viewed in fullscreen on something like a display with a 3:2 aspect ratio).
Funnily enough I think that you're friend is still right, this is not necessary a competitive AI this is a Tool Assisted Artificial Intelligence (TAAI for short), there is no way to compete against it, it always counters everything you do, while a true competitive AI would be one that learns your tendencies be it mistakes or approach options and punishes you for it which would be the closest thing to a human, when you make an AI that reads your moves and counters everything you pretty much create a wall that doesn't benefit anything, but if you create a smart human like AI you give someone the opportunity to learn and improve by repetition.
A challenge is fun, but trying to defeat the impossible is not.
Oh my gosh, I haven't seen that challenge accepted meme in so long!!!
How does Smashbot hold up on other tournament legal maps (Dreamland, FoD, etc.)?
How do I install this onto my PC?
What if smash bot battle smash bot? (i know that doesn't work versus fox, but what can i expect for this battle?)
0:40 Lol, an AI probably knows all it's and your frame data as well and can determine which move is optimal based on that.
No way you can beat a (decently written) bot at a reaction based game.
Is there a sister program that at least mixes up the moves a bit? Or just the spambot?
How do you get cpus into melee mode?
the five gods of smash vs. smashbot
also, what happens if two smashbots fought against each other.
Legend says the marth in this video Is actually m2k getting bodied by the bot
This is all fine and dandy, but until we see SmashBot take on the god that is lv 9 Ganondorf, my soul cannot rest in peace. IT WILL BE THE ULTIMATE BATTLE!!
I hope to see more of this AI.
I like how this impossible and useful AI started from, “nah games to buy brain for robot”
“Bet”
I'm not sure how but I managed to get Smashbot to SD by jumping around the ledge alot. So I suppose if the player where to get lucky and have it happen 3 more times they COULD win. I'm on ubuntu btw in case you wanna look into it.
what kind of evil genius made this MONSTER of CPU for Melee.
i would hate to see this get snuck into tornument play
someone should entered this bot in a tournament. crediting the source of course.
Cool from a Melee perspective. Looking at the source takes away all the magic though lol. I'd be more interested in seeing a bot that's more naturally extendable to other characters and one less reliant on hard codes, even if it was less bulletproof. Fun stuff though
= . I Randomly get this suggested in my feed 4 years later.
We should hold tournaments for man made AI.
how can I play against smashbot?
I shall not lose to a Smashbot
Holy crap that is terrifying.
I get where your friend was coming from about "high level thinking" but Fox at a peak level of play is so broken that you could have an AI just destroy anything lol
but how well does it strategize? utilize items? and how well does it behave on stages besides final destination?
Those things that Peach pulls out of the ground.
It sucks. I beat it in 10 seconds... just jump on the edge until it shines you off then use your b to get back on stage.. it just falls off and freezes up.
But, what if I was a skilled roy?
Any chance you'll make a smash bot for smash bros ultimate on the switch?
It’s all fun and games until you counterpick to pokefloats
Things to try: Falco aireal+shine camping- Fox laser(maybe?) and aerial+shine camping- peach float attack camping
It looks very reactive based so as long as u get some sort of hit in thne don't leave any openings for it to hit u back u can just time it out. it IS probably possible I don't have a mayflash otherwise I would try
I was gonna try this out, but then I read it only fights Marth...
Does smash bot work on Wii?
cool bot! I wonder how it's disadvantage state looks! Besides that, hope it's fun to watch on a spectator perspective.
YOU MAD MAN WHAT ARE YOU DOING?! Did you not watch the documentary Terminator? Atleast tell me you put in a way to beat it 100%?
Of course, after seeing the 4.05 AI, I'm doubtful. How does this compare to that version?
How does it do in cruel melee?
The only issue I have with Fighting game AI is that it's impossible to make it "good", just perfect.
You can't teach an AI gamesense, but you can give it the ability to react to your inputs the same frame you do them on.
well you can teach an AI gamesense, it's just a MUCH larger and MUCH more difficult work load.
Can I do this with the dolphin emulator? I wanna try it against all the AIs, plus it would be useful to unlock characters for the game on the emulator as well. :)
how do you run the make file?
But can it beat a level 9 ganon
Smashbot was always a little boring to me because it was never given parameters in which it's supposed to extrapolate and make probability predictions. It reads the game frame by frame and reacts to rolls, di in a way to make the game uninteresting.
If smashbot was "blind" to 10-15 recent frames it'd be a lot more interesting and would probably behave a lot more humanlike, especially if the reaction time of the bot varied like a humans would.
I don't mind the perfect execution, that's just cool
This looks terrifying.
I’m feeling chess ai vibes here
Erm, can't use the make file; can't find a program to run it...
you have to build it.
Dunno how, forget it anyways now lol.
Holy crap
Not even amada will survive
i want armada to fight this on stream. it's like the new ganon challenge.
Perfect grab simulator
They should have made the bot do taunts
Is this a mod ? Or did a computer really learn how to shmoove like that ? Not really AI 😕
tas vs smashbot when?
Simply awesome.
It started out as a simple dair.
I'm sure someone made that joke already...
PLEASE MAKE TOOL ASSISTED SPEEDRUN VS SMASHBOT!!!!
The AI's name should be 20XX.
Now try smash bot vs smash bot
Wow, and i beat lv 9s as Robin in smash bros 4. How? Because I use them as Intense training for Online battles.
Honestly, a few players could of won against smash bot but, it cheats by killing you when screen freezes, so it's not even fair in a actual match.
Its 2051, Smashbot has now collapsed the world economy and caused world war 4. The internet has collapsed. No one plays smash because they are focused on survival. Smashbot is the best in the world.
I liked the part where he grabbed him
Wait so this only works on ubuntu?
when it this comming for Windows? :P
probably when Windows stops being such a bad joke as a dev platform
No, it's for Linux, not only Ubuntu
Frame 1 reaction doesn't count
The algorithm sent me
Level 9 cpu vs level 11 cpu
Smash bot vs level 99 amiibo
I want to see smash bot vs smash bot
Beautiful.
I don't think it's fair for the bot to have perfect reaction time, your just proving that perfect shielding is unbeatable. It would be much more interesting to see how a man made brain would fair against a pro, without the advantage of being able to read directly from the players controller inputs
It's not supposed to be fair, the entire point of creating Smashbot was to make an AI as good at the game as possible.
@@SpaghettiParmesan64 there’s “as good as is possible” and there’s “as good as is possible under the constraint that it is only gets the information that a human player would have access to” (like, can only see the screen, though, because the vision processing part is largely incidental to the problem, it might be a good enough approximation to just give the position of the models on screen plus what each current animation frame is. But opponent controller inputs seems a bit cheating?)
all brains are man made
odd argument, melee takes too much strat and thinking for an ai to be good at it so an ai could never - thats the things ai are best at; micro second level of thinking and perfect strats
Jesus, my lord...
Nice job :)
I wanna see him fight giga bowser
This bot can be beaten on any other stage than Final Destination. So not that good aa you think
A bot can win because they feel no shame
bet it cant beat lvl9luigi :))
we were saying roflstomp and challenge accepted as late as 2016???
i wanna watch smashbot vs smashbot :p
This is A.I’s purpose
Too bad m2k would prolly jv5 it with ledge shenanigans
Goku vs Jiren
Lmao. "Too much high level thinking and strategy". I'm dead dude. Fighting games, much like physical sports are almost entirely reaction based and instincts. Sure fighting games have the extra level of frame data to learn, but other than that it's all reaction based. Of course a computer can be programmed to dust us humans in Melee. This guy essentially used the classic Todd Rogers excuse of the us not accounting for the "human element" for a world made up of 1s and 0s.
I four stocked it
please make it fight an evolving a'i
the smash gods father exposed. they all siblings from matrix hacking program
I wanna get botted by TrashSmash
I've wanted to made a Smash CPU with neutral networking for a while
dthrow dthrow dthrow dthrow dthrow dthrow
So....Where is the evidence that this CPU can beat any human? Have you even tested it against a high-level player?
Your bot sucks.. i beat it in 10 seconds.
ddstar No you didn't
If that’s all it does then it’s bs.
If Smashbot was ranked on a scale of CPU levels 1 to 9, it would be at CPU level ~20+!!!