So this bot actually is beatable, or at least hittable, if it works the way he claims it does. He claimed that the bot will attempt to grab you if you are shielding. But, since some characters in this game have OOS options that are faster than 7 frames, if the bot tries to grab you when you are playing one of those characters, and you then do that OOS option after he has started grabbing (in which case he's commited and can't do something else), your OOS hitbox will beat his grab, thus preventing a JV5.
The thing is you would have to either react to the bot grabbing and use your OOS before it's too late (almost humanly impossible,) or get lucky and input it on the same frame the bot grabs. If you do even 1 frame too early the bot won't grab because that option would be beaten.
gamerfreak5665 yeah fr any update? So many people in all of these videos’ comments sections saying they want to run smashbox against TAS. Was it successful? Is the video anywhere on TH-cam??
The reason why fox bot can be so good is because fox simply just has options which are simply not punishable like shine. Low tiers wouldn't really be able to be programmed in this way since they would have counterplay and since the bot is predictable they wouldn't be that good. Unless they were training with learning
@@shayboual1892 A lot of moves aren't punishable if a computer is playing lol and even shine would be punishable if a computer was on the receiving end of it.
Smashbots fighting smashbots is impossible. It only works on player 2 and assumes you're player 1, and it against tas would be smashbot against a perfect player.
in fact it can play against math/fox/falco/samus (for now) he knows those match up but it has fram data of every char, the only thing that counters him is counterpick stages, it can only fight on sd) Go watch the full video of smashbot vs pro, it's in vgbootcamps vod. so a tas could be made against tasbot.
Hi. First of all, i would like to say thank you for brining AI to Smash. i have one concern tho, and i'm sure you've heard it many time: there should be a human-like reaction time implemented in a bot (or a new/different version of it, that would start to learn all over again with the reaction time). Main issue is, when we think to AI in games, reaction time isnt an issue that has been talked a lot about. In Chess and in Go, the game is turn by turn. Therefore one can take as much time as he needs to (i know it's within 2 hours limit, but it is still long enough) in order to play. Then the bot can play, as fast or as slow as he wants to. The fact is that the game is not reaction-time based (of course there is a 2hours limit) but it is turn by turn based, which makes reaction time almost irrelevant. In the game of smash. And almost every video games that isnt turn-by-turn based, reaction time IS PART OF THE GAME. If you take it off, it is not the same game at all. The strategy of the game, the meta game, how you move, when you decide to attack, etc. every timing is based on your reaction time. Reaction time IS PART OF THE GAME. This is why reaction time should be implemented in order to make a really interesting bot that we can learn from if it is even possible with average computational power, to make an AI that can beat the pros. (Because even if it is cool to watch a frame-perfect infinite waveshine, we all know it is not realistic and it gets boring to watch/play against after a while) A reaction time of about 0.25-0.3sec should be implemented. Even this is quite fast since it will have almost instant option selection and action (so i think going to 0.3sec should be the best). (Note that the reaction time only apply in reaction to your opponent action, not to yours (for exemple, if ou are inputing an input sequence, it could be frame perfect between each of those input, since you already knew you were going to input those)) Hope you've read this, and hope to see a bot like that soon! (also with videos showing his evolution would be crazy interesting)
pcrsweetness Exactly. This guy put a few months into designing smashbot. A learning algorithm is outside the scope of his skills and would take a team of people to implement. When AI tools become more available and computer processing becomes cheaper, we can consider building a learning smashbot with human reaction time. Right now anybody with those skills to create that is going to be using them on a real job making good money. We will have to wait some years before seeing a smashbot that learns and performs akin to OpenAI DotA project or what deepmind is doing with StarCraft. Both those projects are composed of entire teams of people who are more or less geniuses when it comes to AI systems. That's what it takes to create an AI a step up from this, one that could beat top players with human reaction time constraints factored in. It's an entirely different order of magnitude in difficulty to create what OP is proposing.
I dont know irf it would matter, but I dont know why they didnt get any really good pro to play it but all well, or is this just showing the jv5s and there were other sets that went better as well?
It doesn't matter. The bot has an instant reaction time and perfect frame data. If you throw out an attack it will simply power shield of spot dodge into shine The only way to hit it would be to frame trap it, which isn't possible in neutral against a shine only Fox. It doesn't matter who fights it, they literally can't hit it The only thing they can do is pick Fox/Falco and clang shines best case scenario
Personally i would have rather seen a smashbot with 15 frame reaction time implemented, because it seems kind of boring to have a bot that just reacts frame 1 to everything
Who are these "pros"? And why the heck do most of them not even seem to acknowledge what they're doing? You're fighting a god AI. Have some fun. It's not serious. You're not supposed to win.
Chillava Lmao they're top level players and well known players in the community, and they seem like they are having a lot of fun. Of course they want to see if they can beat or exploit it, they're basically helpless against this bot and they know it, I saw a lot of silly fun stuff in the video. I don't know what you expected from this video, but I saw a lot of fun and personality in this video.
@@pwnography577 Not really, the game froze every time the players were winning, so this bot is beatable when not freezing 24/7 the full 2 hour clip shows how vulnerable the bot really is.
It’s crazy to see a melee video after all these years and be blessed with the sound of Slime and Ludwig for commentary
It still feels like yesterday when Ludwig used to be a melee compilations channel
"i found some things to exploit"
*looks at title*
Lmao amazing. Not even the BLUR DASH was enough??
What would happen if Smashbot played in doubles? Or vs itself or TAS?
It can't.
Sunset Shimmer
It definitely can.
he made a video, fox will double shine each other resulting in 2 clanks and then they wd away, and dash and do it again for 8 minutes
TAS opens up the Avenue for winning.
So this bot actually is beatable, or at least hittable, if it works the way he claims it does. He claimed that the bot will attempt to grab you if you are shielding. But, since some characters in this game have OOS options that are faster than 7 frames, if the bot tries to grab you when you are playing one of those characters, and you then do that OOS option after he has started grabbing (in which case he's commited and can't do something else), your OOS hitbox will beat his grab, thus preventing a JV5.
yea as he said "*[the grab] is technically unsafe*, but it's cool and swaggy so"
I dont understand half of what you said, but I believe you.
Remember tho he said he will grab as a mixup so it's not guaranteed
The thing is you would have to either react to the bot grabbing and use your OOS before it's too late (almost humanly impossible,) or get lucky and input it on the same frame the bot grabs. If you do even 1 frame too early the bot won't grab because that option would be beaten.
It'd have to be frame perfect and you couldn't do it on reaction
I really want to try a TAS with this, if I can figure out the complicated set up.
Lol just use dolphin it has a built in TAS
how'd it go?
gamerfreak5665 yeah fr any update? So many people in all of these videos’ comments sections saying they want to run smashbox against TAS. Was it successful? Is the video anywhere on TH-cam??
Still waiting
Waiting still
*it makes your game faster if you press alt f4*
How does it do in cruel melee?
Now, we've found it's weakness
Playing on other stage than Final Destination
Put the bot against M2k, Armada, Hbox, Mango, and Leffen.
they’d get bodied just the same
@@Xalashaska They'd probably take a couple of stocks
I have more faith in m2k than anyone else against smash bot lmao
@@pureawesomness35093 why? because he cheeses 1000 unranked players a day?
@@Xalashaska because hes the real bot
I feel like I'm watching terminal montage
20XX is coming, and the only move that will ever be used in Melee tourneys is fox's shine.
Smashbot lands a shine once
Smashbot: Omae wa mou SHINEdeiru.
player: Nani??
Have they done this with other characters? Id like to see what a perfect bot of low tiers looks like
The reason why fox bot can be so good is because fox simply just has options which are simply not punishable like shine. Low tiers wouldn't really be able to be programmed in this way since they would have counterplay and since the bot is predictable they wouldn't be that good. Unless they were training with learning
@@shayboual1892 I just mean were its programmed to played as best as it can, through machine learning
@@dark0ssx ah then yes I agree. I'm surprised no one has programmed a bot like that yet
@@shayboual1892 A lot of moves aren't punishable if a computer is playing lol and even shine would be punishable if a computer was on the receiving end of it.
i did not expect to hear Ludwig and Slime when i started this video lol
For anyone who didn’t know, Slime was a melee organizer and Lud was just “his friend”. Hence the phrase, “Slime’s friend”.
@@aitan6593 that's hilarious in retrospect given Ludwig's blow up in popularity lol
I think I would fight that game cube if it did me this dirty.
Still dying to see Smashbot vs TAS. Also 2 or more Smashbots fighting each other. Please?
It can't. It can only play against marth.
Sunset Shimmer Why do you say that?
Smashbots fighting smashbots is impossible. It only works on player 2 and assumes you're player 1, and it against tas would be smashbot against a perfect player.
And for the marth comment characters with projectiles would be impossible to get the read on projectiles.
in fact it can play against math/fox/falco/samus (for now) he knows those match up but it has fram data of every char, the only thing that counters him is counterpick stages, it can only fight on sd) Go watch the full video of smashbot vs pro, it's in vgbootcamps vod. so a tas could be made against tasbot.
"what about randy forwards?" at 0:58 had me dying
Imagine that thing as Pichu.
would need to be completely rewritten, looks like it's purely written for Fox
Smashbot v Pro?
- Ok, sounds fine.
Smashbot on Fox?
- Are you high?
Everyone keeps saying this bot vs other pros, or other bot programs
But why not this bot vs multiple pros at once?
Any competent players would win a 2v1.
It never leaves the ground. Is this the future?
How would a bot made to work on a character without a lagless move do? Like on Cpt. Falcon or peach or sheik or something
vs the pros, and also blur
Ultra instinct goku vs jiren
came for an interesting video, surprised to hear ludwig and slime :^)
o7
And Leffen says Marth is favored.
please make it play other characters as well i'd love to see pros v.s bowser true swag
Virgin Amiibo vs Chad Smashbot
And I'm still here grinding Blur Dashes
Unreal
Level 99 CPU
I would've liked seeing a 3 v 1 against the bot with the pros
part 2 pls
Ludwig and slime here
Can we see smashbot vs giga bowser?
This last man is the biggest streamer now...huh
Ludwig. Ikr he's come do far
*_justmarthystuff_*
chaingrabbing them to death on FD
Are we really gonna count blur as a pro
young lud AWOOGA 👀
Ludwig throwing for content, as usual.
You should make a video with smashbot vs smashbot.
He did.
Is that Ludwig and slime?
probly only works against marth + other waveshineable characters
What a nice name i wonder what happens when i press the buttons
Watching this bot on the menu screens is giving me arthritis.
So like.........are they all just gonna play Marth?
Extrauniversal artificial intelligence intrauniversal wormhole
let smashbot play campaigne mode
Neonicon smash bot would loose on stage 1 because it’s only programmed to play on FD.
@@JSRFModCentral What about VS Master/Crazy Hand then?
@@rickywalters7717 still loose
20XX has taken form
Slime and Lud? This feels... Weird.
Blur plays melee?
look its cody schwab
Pick puff and lwdgecamp timeout
Could it beat brawl meta knight?
I dont see why iBDW cant do this.
Hi.
First of all, i would like to say thank you for brining AI to Smash.
i have one concern tho, and i'm sure you've heard it many time: there should be a human-like reaction time implemented in a bot (or a new/different version of it, that would start to learn all over again with the reaction time).
Main issue is, when we think to AI in games, reaction time isnt an issue that has been talked a lot about. In Chess and in Go, the game is turn by turn. Therefore one can take as much time as he needs to (i know it's within 2 hours limit, but it is still long enough) in order to play. Then the bot can play, as fast or as slow as he wants to. The fact is that the game is not reaction-time based (of course there is a 2hours limit) but it is turn by turn based, which makes reaction time almost irrelevant.
In the game of smash. And almost every video games that isnt turn-by-turn based, reaction time IS PART OF THE GAME. If you take it off, it is not the same game at all. The strategy of the game, the meta game, how you move, when you decide to attack, etc. every timing is based on your reaction time. Reaction time IS PART OF THE GAME.
This is why reaction time should be implemented in order to make a really interesting bot that we can learn from if it is even possible with average computational power, to make an AI that can beat the pros.
(Because even if it is cool to watch a frame-perfect infinite waveshine, we all know it is not realistic and it gets boring to watch/play against after a while)
A reaction time of about 0.25-0.3sec should be implemented. Even this is quite fast since it will have almost instant option selection and action (so i think going to 0.3sec should be the best).
(Note that the reaction time only apply in reaction to your opponent action, not to yours (for exemple, if ou are inputing an input sequence, it could be frame perfect between each of those input, since you already knew you were going to input those))
Hope you've read this, and hope to see a bot like that soon! (also with videos showing his evolution would be crazy interesting)
Gullshunter the bot is designed to be impossible to beat
The point is to show that melee is an easy game
Adding a reaction time completly defeats the purpose of the bot. The point of this bot existing is to show what near perfect melee could look like.
also, this bot is not a learning algorithm
pcrsweetness Exactly. This guy put a few months into designing smashbot.
A learning algorithm is outside the scope of his skills and would take a team of people to implement.
When AI tools become more available and computer processing becomes cheaper, we can consider building a learning smashbot with human reaction time.
Right now anybody with those skills to create that is going to be using them on a real job making good money. We will have to wait some years before seeing a smashbot that learns and performs akin to OpenAI DotA project or what deepmind is doing with StarCraft.
Both those projects are composed of entire teams of people who are more or less geniuses when it comes to AI systems. That's what it takes to create an AI a step up from this, one that could beat top players with human reaction time constraints factored in.
It's an entirely different order of magnitude in difficulty to create what OP is proposing.
4 stock bodied in less than a minute at 0%. Humanity is fuckin doomed.
FT Ludwig
Ludwig and slime!!
Is that Ludwig I hear ?
he plays at 6:28
So the bot is a can of spam someone beats it and breaks the bot because of jigglypuff
People are laughing at this
But this is the code the terminators of the future will be running.
bots need to be limited by latency and remote control ping.
I dont know irf it would matter, but I dont know why they didnt get any really good pro to play it but all well, or is this just showing the jv5s and there were other sets that went better as well?
It doesn't matter. The bot has an instant reaction time and perfect frame data. If you throw out an attack it will simply power shield of spot dodge into shine
The only way to hit it would be to frame trap it, which isn't possible in neutral against a shine only Fox. It doesn't matter who fights it, they literally can't hit it
The only thing they can do is pick Fox/Falco and clang shines best case scenario
Surprised nobody tried countering
@@gregoryford2532 timestamp?
I bet M2k would still win. He's is the robot afterall.
He'd take a stock and plank
this cpu must be put at 127369420
It’s so frustrating to watch XD
I wanna see two bots fight
is that slime?
Play puff and rest you win
SFAT was right all along, fox wins on FD vs marth
How Do I Get SmashBot?
Hahahahahahaha good bot, idk who program it but it is good against marth
5:06 for those of you on laptops you might need to hold the fn as well. Your welcome
Shoulda pivot downtilt
Hungrybox + Zain vs 1 bot.
Personally i would have rather seen a smashbot with 15 frame reaction time implemented, because it seems kind of boring to have a bot that just reacts frame 1 to everything
Lol.
It's not that hard to beat Marth on FD cidy
All it did was spam shine
MM 352 Well yeah. It's shine.
Chillava there’s other things it could’ve done
That's the best thing it could do.
Pro Smash players just make me grit my teeth😬😬
Why
Nobody in this video is a pro but go off
Who are these "pros"? And why the heck do most of them not even seem to acknowledge what they're doing? You're fighting a god AI. Have some fun. It's not serious. You're not supposed to win.
Chillava Lmao they're top level players and well known players in the community, and they seem like they are having a lot of fun. Of course they want to see if they can beat or exploit it, they're basically helpless against this bot and they know it, I saw a lot of silly fun stuff in the video.
I don't know what you expected from this video, but I saw a lot of fun and personality in this video.
@@pwnography577 Not really, the game froze every time the players were winning, so this bot is beatable when not freezing 24/7 the full 2 hour clip shows how vulnerable the bot really is.