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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- About the last bit.. Some might argue that clones provide an easier access to newcomers because of their low price point and availability. But in my opinion, PBT keycaps these days are pretty price competitive and widely available too i.e. NicePBT November Fog, PBTFans family etc. This hobby is not cheap anyways so, if you are gonna throw some cash into this, why not go for the good ones? Again, just my humble opinion.
Keycap Recommendations ###
PBTFans Neon - kbdfans.com/r?id=0tlrts
Unique semi transparent look, reminds me of GMK Symbiote.
PBTFans WOB - kbdfans.com/r?id=kcc6nl
The classic white on black, can't go wrong with this.
PBTFans PurpDolch - kbdfans.com/r?id=gf4sti
A bright pop of purple to the dolch colorway.
⌨️ Keyboards ⌨️
ktechs - ktechs.store/
KBDFans - kbdfans.com/r?id=q0k1tf
📷 Camera 📸
Sony a7iii - amzn.to/3Vps9Ug
Sony FX3 - amzn.to/4c68wGh
🔎 Lens 🔍
Helios 44-2 58mm F2 - amzn.to/3X6yxRj
Tamron 17-28mm F2.8 - amzn.to/3yKWtzP
Sony 20-70mm F4 - amzn.to/3X5P5Jj
💡 Lights 💡
Amaran 60D - amzn.to/4bMzGlF
🎤 Audio 🎤
Rode Wireless GO II - amzn.to/4bMzGlF
DJI Mic 2 - amzn.to/459aGlW
Audio Technica AT2020 - amzn.to/3V5piOP
Contact ###
Bio: bio.site/benfromsg
Personal Webpage: www.benfromsg.com
Discord: benfromsg ID 7748
At this point, GMK is just a scam. The community has grown enough to produce their most popular set with mass production and reduce their prices, but they are not doing it just because they are just greedy. There is a reason there is a clone market... because there is enough demand for them, but not enough supply.
I hope u have owned GMK keycaps to say they are a scam because in my eyes are absolutely not. And I believe u misunderstand how production works. In terms of volume, the community is definitely not enough to support consistent production. For a themed set, say gmk cadet, will there be buyers after r3? Will it even make it to r5? How many people are interested in this specific colorway? When a large contract for production is signed, the agreement is for mass production (>1000) of a specific design, NOT 1000 units split 3 ways into GMK Cadet, Nuke data, WOB. It typically means GMK will produce that particular design in batches over a couple of years. So they will deliver say 1000 units this quarter, 1000 the next, so on and so forth. Do u think there are 3000 buyers for a gmk set in a year when at current gb stages, some gmk sets don’t even hit moq in the hundreds? And in terms of prices, they are competitive are they not? Their base kit is around $100, decent pbt sets are in the $80 range, clones go for way less. Granted their kitting can be better but we can argue that that slight edge can be owed to quality in gmk abs plastic over pbt which are still not as consistent in some manus. Clones.. I don’t even wanna talk abt them.
@@benfromsg First of all, GMK are ABS, not PBT, so it's way cheaper and easy to produce.
Maybe you don't know, but GMK use the same molds for all their keycaps, so there is no extra cost involved other than using a different plastic color. They only need new molds for the "novelty keys" and considering how many novelties they include, those molds should cost less than 1000 (I have manufactured plastic molds before, and they are not that expensive)... also, those keys are basically add-ons, so their main selling product is still almost free since they already own the molds.
Also, PBTfans already proved that you could produce triple shot PBT keycaps with high quality at lower prices. Besides, Drop do sell GMK keycaps for way less than the group buys, so it's pretty much proved that they are overcharging just because they can. Nowadays, GMK is more a "status symbol" than a good product.
So yeah, GMK at this point is just scamming their customers, taking advantage of their position in the hobby. They are at a position where they could easily produce and sell keycaps for $60 and still be profitable, but they choose to overcharge because some people would pay whatever just to say they have a GMK set.
Also, do you really believe that a 2nd, 3rd or 4th stage would not sell? If that was true, there would not be any clone company selling keycaps. There is a big market that is not fulfilled, and those clones companies are taking advantage off. Also, sorry to burst your bubble, but you don't need a production that big to be profitable, specially since they already own the molds.
@@ViXoZuDo Nope, u still don't get the business part of it. Drop can do that because they have signed some sort of contract with GMK regarding the shipment of their GMK sets. Why do u think they are able to restock their WOB sets every few months? Precisely because Drop estimated the sale volume and told GMK "hey, ship me 200 sets every X months". Obviously their prices are going to be much cheaper because the volume is larger. No sane niche designer is gonna pay GMK upfront when they barely hit or make MOQ for just R1. And you can't say just because novelties are add-ons so it's cheaper. They may be cheap to you (idk ur application) but since there are even less orders for novelties, the price per complete GMK set will definitely increase. Besides, you still need to remake a mold for each set of new novelties and for a company whose main business does not come from us, why would u assume they are willing to carve out a larger labor force to cater to our small volumes per set? All these also does not include the profit margins that the designers take from the pie, so if anything, designers also need to be more transparent about their cost/profit margins. To take the same words from you, if Drop can lower their prices, why not these niche designers lower theirs too?
And again, like I mentioned, quality comes in different forms. One thing that ABS can do but PBT can't is provide a wider range of color selection. Obviously there's something going on with ABS manu that all these factories are unwilling to adopt. Why do u think only GMK is doing ABS at a large scale now as opposed to NicePBT/ePBT/KBDfans manus? I'd wager most of these factories are based in China, where labor cost is low in itself. Signature Plastics ABS keycap sets aren't cheap either. Why not put SP up on the crucifix too? Find me another quality ABS manu and get them to lower their prices below GMK's and then come put GMK on a stick. I'd be more inclined to agree with you then.
I also want to be clear that I am not siding with GMK here. I just disagree with you that their prices are soooo much more expensive that they are worthy of being label as a "scam". Clones are scams. GMK is most certainly not. Are their keycaps expensive? Yes. Do we know their engineering process enough + costings + negotiations with designers enough to judge? Idk about u but I don't.
@@ViXoZuDo and to reply to ur edited comment, truly, some GMK sets don't make it past R1. Go on reddit and see some designers openly telling their prospective buyers to inform them if they want to run a R2 or R3, turnaround from GMK will be much faster compared to R1. And u severely misunderstand why clone companies exist. They exist because they KNOW GMK sells. Their design sells. They know they can get a quick buck by bypassing the vendor's cut and designer's cut so these cloners can have a bigger share of the pie. If GMK is greedy, these clone makers are even more greedy.
And I don't disagree with u on the fact that some keeb people just take GMK as a brand name. Sure, they just want to show off they can afford a GMK set. I think some do have that mindset and don't even know the intricacies of what we are talking here. But GMK certainly don't overcharge because of this. Go look up past Geekhack GB posts and u can see that their prices are more or less consistent. Perhaps 5-10% increase due to inflation and plastics rising in cost but that's about it. If ur argument is true, the price would have increased dramatically these couple of years but that is not the case.
@@benfromsg Do you really believe that GMK could not just produce a certain set, like Drop is doing? They could easily do it. They are not doing it because taking advantage of their customers is way more profitable.
Also, you clearly have 0 experience in the manufacturing industry. There is no such a thing of "wasting time" manufacturing other color. They just need to add another color of plastic, and that it is. Their production line would work as usual.
About the designers, trust me, they are barely earning something. The problem in the chain is GMK, not the designers.
About high quality ABS, there are DMK, JTK and also some of the sets of ePBT and PBTfans are abs... and all of them are cheaper than GMK... And Signature Plastics is also cheaper, the GMK.
I’m glad I found your channel! Good info, keep up the great work.
thanks man :)
I refused to pay for GMK for quite a while but was getting close to their price in nicer PBT caps with certain aesthetics. I recently got a GMK set and they are phenomenal. Clearest text, prefect sound (depending on the keyboard sound you are going for) and can now be picked up, at least some sets, in stock. I definitely will use PBT for some builds, love the deep thock and look of Osume, but if you have board you want to bring out some sound... GMK is the way to go and they feel fantastic. I'll note the Drop DCX sets are pretty close in feel and sound but still not exactly the same.
GMK has never failed to deliver, for me at least (minus the paper trays).
Another great content, thank you so much,. For me, as long as the keycap is looks good, and cheaper i will go that way, instead waiting for longer but more expensive. But im sure some people love and fine with it, but in the end as long as its working and compatible, i think im good.
True. The sentiment these days is to not join the gb, but instead snag extras from vendors. A little more expensive, but no need for long waits!
@@benfromsg exactly
By the time they arrive I will probably have a different taste in colorways hahaha
Haha true 😅 not for the fickle minded lol
Nice video, great presentation. Another thing I don’t see mentioned as much in regards to pricing is GMK is manufactured in Germany
good point, but it's hard to compare because the other manus aren't really as transparent. a few are, like monokei's series one is made in taiwan. other pbt sets i'm not too sure of.
What that used to mean and what that currently means are two different things.
I personally still love GMK; it might just be me justifying my purchase, but when it comes to quality it hasn't disappointed me yet.
Another thing I don't see mentioned at all is that when it comes to tolerances of the keycaps, most other brands causes interference with R3 South facing non-long pole switches. To see what I mean, try some ePBT or OTC sets on silent switches; the keycaps would hit the top housing of the switches regardless of orientation.
tolerances are hit and miss with orientation of certain switches though, even with GMK keycaps. really gotta try em out
osume is one of my recent most favourite keycaps sellers. would recommend them
Agreed!
GMK used to ship their keycaps in plastic trays, they just don't anymore.
Do they???? Wow I missed out on those days then
nice job!😀
Thanks!
Where can you buy GMK keycaps? They have a website?
GMK is a plastic manufacturer. If you want to buy GMK keycaps, there are vendors/distributors in your region that carry them. Novelkeys, cannonkeys, ilumkb, kbdfans, dailyclack, monokei are just some of them. There are plenty more sellers, especially if you look into the secondhand market on discord or Reddit r/mechmarket
@@benfromsgdont forget about drop btw i got my blue samurais there
very good content btw. #supportlocal :) im currently using xmi chinese keycaps and its way better than the clones i bought, sure the xmi keycaps was double of clones but its super worth it bruh, the legending is crisp, very thick too which sounds very dull(which i dislike but still sounds better than the clone) Which is why i may buy gmk from like drop to get that abs sound that i hear so much that sounds so good. Oh yeah is there any vendors in sg that sells gmk or dcx
thanks haha! yeah, there are still quite a number of keycaps I have yet to try out. XMI and hammerhead crp are a few that I hope to get one or two sets of someday :] unfortunately I don't know any vendors in sg that sells dcx though. ilumkb has a number of gmk instock! they are my go-to vendors, very good customer service too!
@@benfromsg thanks bro
@@onehitking9124 welcome!
Great content but I disagree that gmk space bars are flat. I’ve never gotten a flat one and I’m not the only one.
They don’t make flat space bars anymore and telling people that is just misleading
Really? I have bought a lot of gmk Keycaps and I mean like, a lot. WOB, laser, laser synthwave, aurora polaris, deep navy, sloth, cadet, thinkcaps, nuclear data, honey, minimal, mitolet pulse… none of them have a warped spacebar though 🤔 basically… around 80% of them I bought have been used for builds in my channel and none of them have warped spacebar…. Maybe I was lucky? Or u were unlucky? 😅
@@benfromsg That's actually incredible LOL. That is a variety of sets both recent and older. So I am surprised you didn't run into any banana spacebars (in the end it doesn't affect usability all that much, it's just disappointing when cheap XMI/21KB can get it right).
I have quite a few GMK sets as well and none of them are flat. I think my experience is the same for my friends as well. I guess we'll never solve this mystery :P
@@MatthewHo376 yeah! Haha idk how to explain it either! 😅 did u try some hot fix? (No pun intended) i.e. pouring some hot water onto it and then bending it back quickly? ABS is pretty soft compared to PBT ones
@@benfromsg thats insane luck, i own 7 sets and only manage to get a single flat 7u space bar.
btw you can get a discount on next purchase if you report wrapped space bar to drop, not sure about other vendors tho
@@boomer_69 really? hmm the number of warped spacebars are more than I thought...
Thanks but I have to mute the video and turn on the subtitles to understand this singlish
Well, that's what subtitles are for
As much as I want to buy a GMK set, I would just buy the clones for the wait time alone.
I don't want to wait a year and a half or even more for a keycap set that I might not even want anymore and Clones are faster to get and costs less.
Buying clones is the only option if the run of the group buy has ended and there's no way of knowing if it will come back again in the future.
Great Video too
I take GMK keycaps to be like limited edition sneakers. Sure there are clones/imitation goods that may come real close to the actual thing, but they just aren't the same. Do they function like how a shoe/keycap do? Of course, but people are willing to pay for authenticity. Will I ever justify spending $1K+ on aftermarket GMK Darling? Hell no. But hey, who am I to say how to spend your money? I just dislike the morality of it cuz someone spent some time, be it minutes/hours/days, squeezing their creative juices to design novelties and artwork + color matching to put on keycaps but others just rip it off without much thought for quick profit.
You can buy extras of a set that has shipped
@@MaximusMeridiusX just sucks when the set u have ur eyes on is still in gb 😅
you're not entitled to a colorway, if u cant wait for it too bad, get something else. clones are never the answer imo
@@benfromsgif the people who designed it want the profit, they should add other manufacturers so that it is more widely available to the audience. I dont like this overprotection of the creator, its also their ignorance and refusing to make it accessible to the growing audience that has caused the uprising of clones to be this rampant and lucrative in the first place.
Can I buy GMK and pay with my kidneys? 😂
Sureeeeeee 🫡
Омайгад чорт возьми, хорошая работа алег
GMK is just ridiculous. I’ll never buy any set of keycaps that costs more than my keyboard, while waiting up to a year. You say clones are bad, but clones are the reason kailh, and countless other new switches exist. Do you tell people to only buy cherry because they’re the original top dog like GMK? It’s the same with keycaps. Clones are getting good now. More and more good custom keyboards are coming from china with really affordable prices. I think they could handle producing some plastic keycaps without messing up.
The only reason why I don’t support clones is because they are pirated from people’s efforts so is unethical. Imagine someone taking your homework that you did till 2am and submitting it in as their own. There’s no way you are convincing me this is right.
@@benfromsg if people could make what you make better or at the same perceived quality and still sell it at a lower price than you, there’s something wrong with your process. If other companies didn’t ripoff cherry, we’d all still paying premium price while cherry wouldn’t feel the need to innovate at all. Also we’re talking about some molded plastics. It’s not a knockoff adidas or iphone, it’s just plastics. There’s no way a company in china can’t just buy the same machine, use the same materials and make the same product. I get it these designers also worked hard, but they could also make their designs available to cheaper manufacturers instead of GMK don’t they? Just like a gucci you’re paying for the exclusivity. There’s no way you’re convincing me a GMK is better
abs shines, pbt don't
Yep 100%
pbt shines as well, just slower. i love how this kind of videos is always riddled by misinformation and lies in the comments. clone enablers coping so hard they have to manufacture a parallel reality in which they're smart for buying counterfeit pig shit
the top comment on your video is kind of braindead, i agree with you on the video otherwise. ive owned multiple gmk sets and i think that they are absolutely worth the money in every aspect.
Clones are bad, there is no other way to put it. No matter what kind of 'market' there is for it, the existancec of a market doesnt make it any better ethically. There is a market for cocaine, is it suddenly a good thing to start selling? No, it is not.
People have some weird sense of entitlement where the think they deserve a colorway that someone else designed even if they cant afford it. I think this is a horrible mindset because it discourages new designs. No new designs means no clone designs either and one day we will all be stuck with wob bow and beige, and clones of old gmk sets without new colorways available.
True there is compeition now, which is great! Maybe gmk isnt the best value anymore but it still is the number one no matter the price, and that means something in this hobby.
Some people keep saying pbt sets are BETTER or pbt alternatives kill gmk but thats not the fkn point. pbt is completely different from abs and no, whoever said abs is cheaper to make is brainded and doesnt know what theyre talking about. PBT fundamentally sounds different from ABS And if you're deep into this hobby you DO care about such things. Heck even the colors are differenet with gmk abs still being the best looking. PBT has come a long way, but abs is abs. Its just science.
yeah so I pinned that discussion to see the back and forth between two "camps". But hey, I don't tell someone how to spend their money but lay it out for them why it might not be good to support clones. 100% agree with ur POV too. And also, just a quick appreciation for leaving such a long comment, must have taken u a minute or so to get that train of thought out :)