Addressing the Controversy..
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2021
- Glorious, you had potential. In this stream I went into as much detail as possible to explain Glorious' history, how keyboards got involved, and how they're affecting the custom mechanical keyboard community. Glorious dropped a new set of $100 keycaps with horrible compatibility that takes heavy influence from IFK Aether and SA Dreameater.. without ever thinking to contact the original designers.
Full VOD of this stream: / 1195329093
IFK Aether: www.alexotos.com/aether-keyset/
SA Dreameater: geekhack.org/index.php?topic=...
Glorious tweet: / 1455919745983729665
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This should be a series. Not a bad idea to timestamp events like these in the hobby’s history.
Colourways aren't ownable and this design isn't unique.
All of glorious products are clones. I don't understand why people are so surprised by this.
Frfr
@windfall the gmmk pro is hardly similar to the sat75 imo, the 1st row function keys are 1u, there are 3 on the right of the space bar, there is also no small display screen on the top right.
im pretty sure colorways are ownable.
@@und3adxl3g3nd3 They couldnt affoard a screen and the layout changing is just them trying to get more compatibility with keycaps
Might be an unpopular opinion but as someone who owns a few GMK sets and clones as well, here are some reasons i would personally buy clones selectively:
1. Sometimes a gb just passes and the designer has no plans on doing r2 (extinct colour way)
2. Paying hundreds extra just to get it in the aftermarket is not wise financially
Plus the 2 years wait.
You support thievery no ifs or buts about it
@@kvdxx6603 yes you can say that, thievery is everywhere: art, fashion designs, movies, songs, can u be sure that everything is your life was not a stolen design?
@@kvdxx6603 sometimes people just want the colour way and don’t want to or even cant afford to pay that much on aftermarket, I don’t think it’s right to brag about it, but I do understand people that only buy clones
@@kvdxx6603 the whole gmk gb system is just flawed at core, I hope that more keycap manufacturers produce high quality pbt double shot keycaps with cool colour ways and with a shorter wait time at a fair price to drive all competitors to make better products, a simple way is just to give us the og gmk cases back
Its a slippery slope - but if designers won't have any motivation to create sets and big companies won't have anything to steal, then the designing will simply be left to the big companies. We put too much emphasis on "you put in hardwork, you should be rewarded". That's not true in the world of business. You put in hard work and the market decides whether you get rewarded or not. These companies are just playing by the rules and the game can be absolutely brutal.
On a bigger note, the community should also claim responsibility for being hypocritical. Where was the uproar in the community when sets like GMK Metaverse, Darling, Frost Witch, Mecha-01, and others that steal IP were being released/run? Or does the community only care when its the "little guy" getting hurt?
Yeah the anime sets were hella sus to me.. I was like "hold up this is inspired by what?"
Yeah, naive if how it sounds. This happens ALL THE TIME. And there’s even a possibility that this wasn’t intentional. It’s not like the design is suuuper weird or anything.
Might be an unpopular opinion but gradients are not new and colors are free game. Everyone steals from someone. Oblivion and Dracula are prime examples of taking an existing color way and claiming it. Novelties are pretty much the only thing that might be considered an intellectual property. I appreciate graphics design but especially for keycaps It feels like overreaching on claiming original ideas.
Imitation should not scare you if you're confident in your quality.
Now if these were made by the same manufacture using the same dyes, ect then I would absolutely be angry and on your side.
100% agree. I’m more mad at Glorious’s pricing than the plagiarism. Nobody’s up in arms when Akko does this but Glorious will always get shit from the hipsters in this community.
The group buy model is sub-optimal and as someone relatively new to the hobby, I’d rather have the choice of purchasing readily available sets or supporting community designers.
Yes, this is exactly it. If we want to talk originality in high end keycaps, there isn't much. A lot of these are inspired by other ideas like the Playstation, original Gameboy, Evangelion, the list goes on.
Clones are definitely a major issue in the keyboard community and sadly I believe it stems from the consumer inaccessibility in this community. Group buys are hurting this community because it creates a consumer void due to their high prices and limited supply. If big respected keyboard companies don’t fill this consumer void with humane business practices, the shady companies and Chinese knock off companies will inherently take over due to the imbalance of supply and demand.
Hear, hear!
Not only that , but just like an outsider , i have absolutely no intentions on waiting months for your *Group Buys* you have there in your community...GMK's greediness is their own downfall , even youtubers and keyboards "gurus" turn against them and use clones in their videos.
I mean if you missed a GB and there’s clones of it, who would think twice about buying them lol
@@jlu my point exactly lol
In every market that is dominantly group buys you have the exakt same problem, fashion, like sneaker or other stuff like watches, it's the same problem. The only real reason why group buys exist is to reduce the risk for the manufacturer and to invoke fomo to get people to overpay for the goods.
IMO this isn't stealing intellectual property. This gradient pattern is very common across keycap sets. The colours are similar, but that is the nature of gradients. You just pick two colours and a use a linear progression between them to get your in-between colours. Legends are more important and unique. I can't see any justification for copyrighting a simple gradient. That's not a design IMO.
All my keycap sets are clones, because they’re just plastic…
Not to undermine the efforts that people took to choose colorways of keycaps, but objectively speaking, as far as design/art is concerned, I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "design" but more like taking the time to CHOOSE attractive colour schemes. Especially when there's tons of examples of colour schemes out there, who's to say that the "designer" didn't find something online that he really liked and ran it. I'm not suggesting he did, but I'm also not suggesting he didn't either. With that in mind, there's a possibility that the original "designer" already "stole" the idea from a website featuring a color scheme which he applied it to coloring the keycaps and then claim it as his own idea. Moreover, how much artistry do you really need to come up with pink, black and white. And then to call it a "design". It's not like you're working on a blank canvas either. You have your alphas, modifiers and accent keys, so you pick three colors. Maybe some might disagree, but I would hardly call that worthy of being called art. You literally decided that alphas will be white and modifiers are black. You have monochrome set there already which is quite common. Now all you gotta do is decide on ESC and ENTER key.... Pink! Wow some artistry that took. With all the above being considered, it's silly to get heated over the stealing of colorways because you really haven't stolen much at all. (Novelties excluded). It's not like you copied a mona lisa and called it your painting.
Don't bother, this is the same dumb community that gets outraged by SA Bliss being "clones" to GMK Olivia, even though Olivia itself was essentially a black on white set that replaced mod legends with rose pink with some rose pink accents.
@@noninco1655 Its also the same community who are fine when these so called artists rip off larger ips...Or the fact this aether set isn't an original set either and is just a recolour of another set...
@@shanebolger7802 blasting switch manufacturers because of recolors but it's okay for them to spend a lot of money and wait for years for a recolor on the keycaps they have. Why would you spend a lot for a cheap plastic. In other hobbies, products that used ABS plastic is one of the cheapest products.
I agree with most of what you said, but I do think the prevalence of clones comes from the group buy economy and ridiculous aftermarket prices.
GMK sets and others are not cheap to begin with, but either being out of luck or paying through your nose leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And while I personally would not buy clones, I can see why someone would if it's their dream set. It's just a sad state all around for the designers, because they don't see money from the aftermarket or the clones.
I really hope we get more in stock options in the future as the hobby grows, and the mode 65 and mode 80, as well as the Q1 are a step in the right direction. Having at least some GMK sets and lots of basic sets in stock at vendors also helps.
I’ve been looking o pick up my first keycap set for a while. I was looking at Kuro/Shiro clones and BoW clones on Amazon, but I decided to wait it out to see if I could find more thin and I wound up picking up an ePBT Kavala set last week. Seeing what happened from this drama does make me happy about my decision regardless of me spending 60 extra dollars
Black on white keycaps are hardly a clone unless it uses the same novelties.
I understand that clones take away from the integrity of work put into them by the designer, and I do understand the argument that is being made with this specific keycap set. However, I disagree with the general sentiment that "buying clones is sack religious and people who can't afford to get an original copy should have them." If a keycap set is decommissioned and has no plans of returning, then I do not see the problem with people purchasing clones of these sets. At the end of the day, it's all up to the person who is buying to determine if the ethical standpoint is more important for them than the financial one. In addition, there could be more communication with designers to see if they will be doing second rounds a year or two after the first GB. If there is clarity from the delivering end, I think that it would push people away from buying clones.
I somehow agree with this. On my recent build I was looking for the GMK Blink keycaps, only to find out that it was cancelled and discontinued. So I had no choice but to go for the clones.
@@GoreJuiceGG GMK blink looks sooo good!
Aether R2 is coming soon and Glorious knew it
@@MichaelBertolino is it only the mexican gradient that is clone?
@@shanebolger7802 What?
Its so sad that theres these huge companies with super big recognition, yet cant simply hire an actual designer for their keycaps. Instead they just take someone elses design, and honestly, made it look slightly worse by adding 1 or 2 slightly different colors to make it "technically" not a 1:1 clone. And even worse, they took the designs of people who helped them out so much, like Alex, literally making multiple sound tests for them and doing an un-paid review. How did they not even see this backlash coming when they made those? Do they not have a big team to think these things over? I really wonder these things.
companies are greedy i know because i am working for a billion dollar hardware distribution. They scim on the wages and expect ppl to perform like crazy. Just greed. Nothing more. No surprise that ppl are not feeling motivated to make changes.
Corporate greed. Doing anything costs them money, so they don't want to. If they still are profitable, its more money for them to ignore the backlash (and paying fines). The only time they do something is when they are losing too much profit. Paying anyone for any reason, from social media front, market research, designs, quality control, all means they lose money. Naturally, the larger the company, the more cost for them to do these things (because talented individuals don't want to be treated and paid badly). Stealing IP and using low wage, unexperienced interns out of the field is the most cost effective and unfortunately will still give them profit since its the handful of us in the enthusiast crowd who know of this fact. The team at Glorious, if there was, actually knows this and uses this because they know this is going to be many people's first keyboard into the hobby, where many are in the dark or frankly ignorant of this company's actions. Those people would have given Glorious their money by the time they learn about it. Additionally, the negative of this community is that more often than not, any dislike towards someone's board is heavily frowned upon. So little Tommy posting on the reddit with his first keyboard, the GMMK Pro, will just receive likes and praise, and Glorious gets away with their misdeeds. It's really disgusting that it's not ignorance but planned maleficence.
Legally, there is not much we can do when its colors. Even if every keyboard and keycap profile was strictly patented and copyrighted, China literally ignores any and all because non-Chinese patent/design/IP laws do not apply to them. This nature is enabled by their government, so clones won't ever disappear. To add, suing a Chinese clone takes absurd amounts of money and time (years, with a specialized team), so this is why only extremely large corporations such as Dis-something and Nin-something would go after clones, for they have also have a significant market in China and the profits heavily outweigh the cost to prosecute. So Alex really did get screwed over, and Marcia being very upset is truly understandable -- there is nothing Alex can do as a singular person against Glorious. And like Andy says, Glorious will mostly likely do nothing, especially for Alex even if extremely heavy backlash, the best case scenario being that they won't sell it again after stock is depleted. (Fun fact, the name Glorious and logo itself is pretty much stolen in itself from a meme.)
What you said is true in principle, but in reality, anything they produce would will be a copy of something because attractive color keycap design has pretty much reached it's limit, imo. Just look at the gmk sets on IC right now. They're either mediocre, ugly or resemble another GMK set. For example, GMK EDC looks similar to GMK Bento, with color tones being different. At this point of the game, someone's going to be stealing someone else color idea without looking mediocre. What really has to happen for a game changer are professionals who actually know color, and, not just average people who have figured out how to run GMK gbs. Even then I wonder if they can come up with some colorway that has not been run already.
What a dumb comment lmao. They changed colours to make it not a 1 to 1 clone... Hmmmmm where I have seen this??? Oh hey Alex your Aether set sure seems like something I have seen before.
@@s.l5787 red to purple to blue? aether is red to purple to black, and vilebloom uses non of those colors lol, not sure what your on about
My opinion: Clones are a must-evil (everyone needs keycaps but can't drop $50+). Rebranded copies are not. Why spend $100 on Glorious' GPBT keycaps when you can easily spend $20 more and get a GMK set from Amazon.
my gmk mitolet set would wipe the floor with glorious's keycaps
@@Luci_71 yeah but who? Its a piece of plastic you put on a switch. You get what you like the look of
@@shanebolger7802 uhm there are so many reasons, the plastic is thicker so better sound, more durable and higher quality all for not that much more therfor superior
@@Luci_71 yes and again who? I own gmk sets and will grab another for my brother if I see one I like. Guess what... Availability is far more appealing when the vast majority want the aesthetic of the cap. It being slightly thicker or changing sound slightly don't matter to most. Im not saying gmk sets are bad ( I love the quality ) but availability is far more appealing than slightly better quality ( and yes it really isn't THAT much better ). Although the price here isn't looking great. Its also weird to see someone flex their caps are better
@@shanebolger7802 in stock gmk exists
and its even on amazon
Whats the keyboard called that Glorious ripped of with the sa 75 r2? I can't make out what he's saying.
satisfaction75 by cannonkeys
except these designers weren't the first to come up with a color gradient...come on now
and must we forget all of you are using clones from cherry switches or are you actually using only cherry brand switches? i think not
Maybe if you can keep things in stock and available for people to actually buy there wouldn't be demand for knock-offs.
there are things available, it's just the things people want are the things that aren't available
making it in stock requires capital to buy it upfront and business sense to know it will sell. so the things held in stock are usually cheaper keyboards and more generic keycap sets. and people aren't happy with those, they want the rare, in demand keyboards that are popular because well, they're rare and made in small quantities (which keeps QC at a high level)
it takes years to get things to be readily instock. cannon keys has a leg up and they're doing a lot in stock currently
can someone point me out where can I buy a proper or original keycap set.
every time I look for a keycap set I am always being redirected to banggood or aliexpress.....
was not planning on supporting bootleg copies.
ps.
just started in the hobby and I sadly bought a GMMK TKL model.. cuz I just really want to start the hobby.
Its always an interesting conversation with these keycap ethics.
On one end, its painfully obvious that this keycap set is Alexotos's design that Glorious has taken and then mass produced.
But on the other end, a lot of high end GB sets are just colorways, Alexotos's design included. After all its just a gradient similar to SA vilebloom with different colors.
Heck, some GB sets are colorways from existing properties without licensing. GMK MECHA-01 is inspired by Evangelion and even has novelties which are heavily "inspired" by visuals from the show (Sachiel and Eva-01's face, Nerv Logo). IFK Islander is just an Animal Crossing themed set. GMK Skeletor is just Skeletor colors from He-Man. None of what I mentioned were officially licensed to my knowledge.
Designs in any market are not exactly "original" and the keycap market is no exception.
But what is clear here is that Glorious not only made a clone, but a worse one at that. Its not very much cheaper than what it is copying and the set compatibility is bad (likely so that you buy a GMMK Pro to go along with it). With other clones there is (at the very least) the convenience for entry level or budget folk to have a colorway they like without breaking the bank.
exactly nothing is original in keycap design no one is inventing colors or fonts and color gradient color schemes have been around since like the 80's lol maybe not on a keyboard, but color gradients aren't new or innovative
They are not designers, its more like colorists
What are the thoughts on AKKO? Same as HK Gaming?
They have had some issues but I haven’t looked into them in detail yet
Saw a post from an individual working for Akko, they’re planning for a refresh of their entire keycaps lineup for next year
HK Gaming called, they want their strategy back
HK Gaming is kind of brutal - they'll go steal stuff and then threaten you if you call em out on it. That's next level
@@AndyVNguyen hk gaming is a weirdass company
@@AndyVNguyen HK Gaming steals novelties as well lmao
In a way this is even worst than hk gaming. At least hk gaming can claim their set is cheaper and they even clone novelties and child kits. (Also F hk gaming btw). The kitting on this glorious is dog shit and this is $99.99!!!!! So douchebaggery aside it's also a goddamn rip off.
@@misterpooter I would argue this is in some ways even more nefarious, like a kind of bad that doesn't apply to hk gaming. hk gaming is at least like out here like hey we are scummy scumbags. glorious isn't even owning up to this. they're just keeping mum on it altogether (for now), hoping without scrutiny or a new consumer, they wouldn't know better.
how do these clones compare to the kbd67lite?
kbd67 lite thocks more
Ban Peter
It’s a gradient, not that big of a deal. Real issue is creators that are now attacking Glorious and saying the GMMK Pro is really a trash keyboard but in their review videos were being generous and nice. So who’s lying to their communities now?
Honestly this smell more like extortion for money against glorious then an issue with cloning because it's not even close to being a clone.
In their statement they mentioned they developed a "custom font" for those keycaps, but it just looks like Helvetica Light lol
i agree with everything your saying Andy except for the "there are so many other options" and the "what makes you think your entitled to x". I have GMK Sets & i have clone sets. I don't agree with the concept of clones and i would glady pay for a GMK but im not going to pay someone $500 for GMK Taro & GMK Bento. Why should the only option be pay $500 or "wait till your a baller"
Extras exist, kinetic labs sets exist, cannon keys sets exist.. and people are entitled - they come into the hobby and want everything at the price it was before they were in the hobby. I would personally never pay stupid market for gmk either tho. 350-500 for one set is just bonkers
@@AndyVNguyen I disagree, your take is the exact opposite of entitlement, it’s elitist. I have no problem with businesses filling the void in market. Having more clones won’t lower the value of GMKs or originals because being original has its own value. There are thousands of Gucci knockoffs but that doesn’t lower the value of Gucci products. You build a keyboard for your personal enjoyment- if you like the way it looks, then who cares if you bought clones. I personally but GMK because I have the money and I want the highest possible quality + name brand clout. But people are in different stages of their life and should still have access to nice looking keycaps.
what your thougts on gmk clones being pbt, while real gmks are abs plastic
there are ABS doubleshot clones too. Dare I say good looking clones too, nothing stops China man. $40 for 173 keys, insane.... The abs clone of gmk jamon just looks like the real thing.
What are keyboard enthusiasts opinions on clones of sets that are no longer running and never will run again. For example, I got a clone set of JTK Arctic for my birthday and i found out that the set hasnt run since 2018, and probably never will. That makes it really difficult to get keycaps with that design, leaving clones to be the only option.
Majority don't care. Its just those with the elitist mindset who take this hobby too serious who do care. I only think sets with actual designs are the ones people can say really? That's shady. Slapping a few colours on caps isn't art nor design... Especially since almost all have a theme and that theme gives them those colours to work with. Enjoy your board and fuck everyone else
@@shanebolger7802 Interesting opinion! not one I see often, anyways have a nice day and thanks for being open-minded.
i was at the meet in dallas and actually one of the glorious workers worked on the gmk oni set. it was a lot of fun and i picked up the gmmk pro. i regret buying the board but going was still fun 😅
100% agree with your points, great vid
And is it because of the lighting or am i seeing dark circles under your eyes Andy? My man prolly need some sleep
I am a small business owner. Left a 40-60 hours job to work 60-80 lul
Well luckily I only have 4 glorious things a mouse mouse pad and the gmmk boneless with glorious panda switches but I wanna get some better switches cause after using them they just feel odd idk how to put it
the glorious switches are just kinda mid from what i saw. you can get better for cheaper
I mean a gradient isn't a design. And you can't call a colorways an IP. You don't own any of the colors and all you are doing is laying them down. That's not really a design. Frankly the set Glorious is offering with the additional color in the f keys, and the non gradient for the for the few keys on the right is more of a design than the original. It just seems like a whole big to do about nothing. There gradient is different as it has oranges and they have more of a design. It just seems like reaching frankly.
It's similar, but not a ripoff. You can't copyright a colorway, anyway. Just because they have a similar design doesn't mean that they're ripping off one of many thousands of keycap sets. I'm not defending Glorious because I could not care less, but this feels like a manufactured controversy.
I understand that it's a rough question because people can't copyright color coords, but I think it's important to at least reach out or try to reach out for crediting color schemes if they're literally almost identical. At least say things were inspired by a set, right? At most, maybe give the person a small cut of proceeds. I don't think it's that hard to pay homage.
Yeah and the fact that they don't is what's mostly pissing people off, apart from the apalling kitting and price.
Most of reddit is going on about the legality of people copying colours schemes and they're all just missing the point, the issue isn't how lawful it is, it's about the morality.
If a keycap is stupidly priced for what it brings then i'd gadly get the clone. Difference is so negligable anyways.
And pay a lot less for a better material.
I find it very ironically funny how the GB has a glorious mouse in the pics
Honestly, most of the time you can’t get color ways you want because it’s limited, designer don’t need to worry about selling their products if they had products to sell.. I would gladly be buying sets from gmk if they are available in colors ways for retail. However with that being said glorious branding themselves as a enthusiast brand should not be stealing from Alex without a mention or a little incentive
An very insightful take
This just solidifies my decision to order a keychron c1 instead. On a side note, someone in that thread said glorious ripped off the keyboard design as well, but I haven’t seen any other design like it while looking for a new keyboard. If someone could point me in the right direction.
Andy names the "OG" keyboard several times in the video. It's the _Satisfaction 75_ .
@@Zeraphor Ahh sorry I missed it. I was at work when I was listening to the video. Thanks for the info.
Honestly I feel designer and vendor dont have much power over these legally. Companies like these tend to get away with what they do. Even if they are accountable, they walk away with compensation and apology. The best solution would be content creator or influencer openly educating their viewers to not support this companies. If their sales decline eventually they will learn. I dont understand why companies dont hire a designer or work with them. The cost of working with designer is a fraction comparing to doing something inappropriate and damaging the image of your company. I assume that is the case theoretically but not sure how it reflects in reality.
Can't justify 2nd hand market with scalper prices. Fuck gb unless they can do rerun once in a while.
novelkeys' pbt taro seems to be a good solution to this problem, assuming the price isnt too high
yeah novel keys is running a lot of cheaper sets. the qc isn't quite there but it matches the price they're asking
@@AndyVNguyen did you see the production and samples? whats wrong with the qc?
they show what passes qc in their email newsletter. it's a little rough is all
@@AndyVNguyen oh shit lmao
Totally with Alex here but I thought he did get paid for the sound test. I'm only addressing that claim as Glorious said that was the case.
I've heard that those keycaps are cheap ABS plastic that costs less than a ¢ to produce but sold for $ and every one of them having injection defect on the side, which doesn't sound like a great design. Sort of like an AMSTRAD 'Hi-Fi' - the Mug's Eyeful
Just don't buy it. I know many new people to the hobby will still buy them but voting with your wallet is the strongest way to combat this.
This is how the world works. If you design something and post it it will get copied. This is how companies like apple and Samsung got their start.
I'm not trying to defend clones, but not everyone can afford a $120 keycap set or wait 1 year for it to arrive, or both. I think the problem is the market right now. You either go for a legit set, pay an arm and a leg, and then wait for months OR you buy clones cheap. There's nothing interesting in between. Either way, Glorious did those designers dirty, we should never forget that.
So where is the creator of the BoW color way? I'm sure they must be absolutely livid.
Jokes aside, I get the frustration... Somewhat? But it's a color way. With all respect to Alex, he does not own them. He wasn't the first person to ever come up with that gradient? And glorious won't be the last.
i had my pitchfork ready for you LMAO
the frustration is not legal it's mostly ethical in that they worked directly with alex so they should have known better to not contact him. it's just telling of the times, as they're still going to push forward and sell the item regardless of his role in the aether set.
@@AndyVNguyen for sure, I definitely understand that much. The shadiness to not really reach out is very odd considering their relationship. However, I really think the outrage towards the color way is just... A bad look?
I'm new to the community, and hobby. I respect and love all of the content you guys put out here. As a newbie, to see all these things coming up and pop up on my feed is just incredibly jarring with all things considered. I've seen so many people lose their minds over a color way being used, and it's like... This type of thing is inevitable unless you're considering actual art and novelties etc etc.
(I'm looking at YOU akko. I felt very gross when I saw their blatant gmk blue/red samurai ripoffs with their art-)
Akko might be next on my list to look into
ice cream from mom pog
but in all seriousness, thank you for covering this controversy and bringing up numerous points and perspectives on Glorious, clones, and the hobby in general
A friend linked me to this video since my Twitter comment was featured, but I really appreciate your perspective on this.
I share the sentiment you have about this subject and the instant gratification that people (especially younger ones) desire when they come into the hobby. You’re right; from the perspective of a keyset designer, the amount of vocal advocacy for clones on the subreddit is disheartening compared to how it was 2-3 years ago. There are so many factors as to why GMK sets are not in-stock all the time that multiple paragraphs could be written on that subject alone.
Share your keyboard for the sake of making and sharing it with people who enjoy keyboards as well, not for “clout”.
Ay yo my man Xer, if it weren't for the insane pricing i would have probably gotten a Darling set man, i'm pretty late to this hobby (only joined a year ago) so i haven't seen that many keycap sets but Darling is still my personal favourite, i can't even stress how much i love that set. Keep it up 💪
At the end of the day it’s business and you have to choose who you give your money. If you really knew what these big companies do behind the curtain you would never want to buy anything from any big company.
Exactly? People make it seem like the screen they are looking at wasn't made by a company with dogshit practices. Is it right? No. But that's the world we live in
Okay, how does the community make a keycap/keyboard that are actually in stock and affordable without taking out a loan on the aftermarket? Until then, ill be buying what is in stock that I can get.
Kinetic labs and Cannon Keys are selling a lot of instock options
Keyboards instock are being led by Cannon Keys also. You can also get acrylic ones relatively quickly.
milkyway is trying to do that and have in stock keycaps, keebsforall is trying the same with keyboards … glorious is not the saviour of the hobby and they can surely afford designers just opted not to
It’s so disappointing big companies stop caring.
lol I forgot I work with keebsforall. all their GBs are going to be in-stocks after.
Kuma Mech is trying to switch to instock options as well. Not as plentiful as GB's but they are definitely out there.
If the original product was available (& not through a terrible GB) then this would significantly reduce the problem. The industry needs to move forward.
Imagine paying a lot of money for a cheap plastic and wait for years to get them. And when you get the product you will just keep it somewhere and won't really use it
I am just here looking at the ‘Genshin Interactive Map’ on top..
Idk how that got there
I have one set of clones and I regret getting it because I didnt realize at the time the original set was still being sold. I got a dsa Hana clone and it came with novelties as well. As soon as I found out it was a clone I took it off the keyboard I put it on and ordered the actual set
The whole keycap situation is messed up yet this fact won't really stop me from getting something like the gmmk pro. As somebody who wants a nice 75 coming into this enthusiast hobby, I find the gmmk 75 to be the perfect layout, having a slightly more favorable layout than the satisfaction 75 infact. In terms of copying I don't feel like saying the gmmk pro is copying the satisfaction 75 because of the rotary knob and layout is valid seeing that a keyboard layout isn't really patentable. We see 75 with rotary knobs all the time these days, so when it comes to the keyboard I see nothing wrong with the idea or design of the keyboard itself. Once again I'm not trying to defend glorious of their other "copy and paste" products but I don't feel like a keyboard layout really falls under this umbrella as they did slightly more impactful changes from the "original" than just changing the color. On top of that I don't see the sense in paying a lot more for a version of a product that you don't like as much as the cheaper option.
I was honestly one of those people that thought I was going to be one and done so my first keyboard was the gmmk pro and some noel clones. But then the deeper I got into the hobby, the more respect I have for the hobby. Those were the only clones I've ever bought and I've decided I will go for official pbt sets or the GMKs I REALLY want. I also hated the gmmk pro so much I sold it not long after.
That's exactly the path I hope people go on. Sure, you can get in and just buy a Glorious package and be done, but the hobby is so much more than that company
@Andy V Nguyen Let's just say you take part in me going broke 🤣 but yeah, the hobby has so much more to offer. I remember having issues with the gmmk pro such as terrible stabs and stripped screws. One of my most regrettable purchases since I've joined the hobby and I'm on my 7th board. QC = Nonexistant.
cloning is wrong but i personally would stil rather buy an akko set for 70 bucks with quite good quality and always available and insane compatibilty
yeah glorious went ahead and stole colors (which isn't a new thing) but charged near what it woulda cost if you just bought into the real thing. $100 for shit compat is robbery
their fire pads ripped of from the fnatic dash, their ice pads don't even have glass in them which they advertise and the model o shape was taken from the zowie fk1
the only reason it got popular was because other than the finalmouse ninja air58 (which cost like 300 bucks aftermarket at it's time) it was a light mouse which only cost 50 bucks
This issue is really tricky because I am an artist as well (design student) but the reason for these cloning are really the lack of available options for users who just want the colors. And what you said regarding people are not entitled to get those specific color sets because the group buys are pretty much gone at this point is kinda mean imo. There are no other options for a darling colorway, because that's the only one. And if a certain color is tied by a limited timeframe for me to purchase then you really can't blame other people to look for alternatives that are similar, especially for those that just wants it for the looks. Buying it aftermarket does not support the artist anyway because the reseller is getting all the benefits which is also shitty. I am lucky that GMK laser is always in stock because I don't have to deal with clones anymore because it's available. To me colors are fine to clone, because as an artist a lot of us reference colors from different medias that we see as well. And to be fair a lot of GMK sets are also referencing their colors based on their theme so everything is narrowed down. And I don't mean to downplay what Alexotos did with his set but it's a standard gradient of colors that work together because of color theory, a lot of medias have used it already so it's not like its anything new. And correct me if I am wrong but he's not the first person to do that style of gradient wave as well. Clones of novelties are still a no though because that's a specific design but GMK did Metaverse and Darling, which is from an existing franchise so it's not like that's any better. What is shitty tho is that glorious worked with him so they must be aware of his keycaps AND they are also selling it for more which is ridiculous. The least that they can do is approach and credit him.
Edit: I read everything and yeah you're spot on tbh.
His opinion of you're not entitled is pure elitism and this community is full of it. Group buys are a fucking awful thing for this hobby as it causes that oh shit its limited I need it mentality. I understand not keeping EVERY keycap in stock is reasonable but at the same time... You're artifically limiting sets then claiming no one can do the same colourway/gradient now or have to ask if they can use a similar colour/gradient. Not how life works at all, these people don't own these gradients nor colours. If its novelty caps sure go all out on those who stole the design as thats something thats actually unique. Also im pretty sure there are a fair amount of sets based on large IPs without asking if they can even do that. I believe there was an Animal crossing set? Don't 100% remember. Im not sticking up for glorious entirely but this time the elitists took it to far.
@@shanebolger7802Yeah gatekeeping is a bad thing, but gatekeeping of colors is something that is a little bit absurd imo.
totally agree
@@warrior8954 unfortunately this is just how the community is. Its actually funny as Switches get cloned all the time... Yet you don't see these people crying about it at all? Infact... You literally see people saying to get the clones over the originals. Oh but those clones change some stuff ( still trying to get very similar results as original though ) but its not seen as bad.
@@s.l5787 Yeah I keep saying to people go look up SA Vilebloom set and im pretty sure we are getting a dreameater set thats darker with a pokeball as one of the novelty caps. Also pretty sure we have had sets even futher back that have had the gradient go up to the same point.
They don't see flipping a board as morally wrong because it benefits them. And whenever you try saying anything you usually get well that's just business and people are buying. Well unfortunately this is also just business. You don't own anything to protect your set. So anyone can come along, copy it, mass produce it and then make money off it. You NEED some sort of protection otherwise you cant cry about shit as you know full well what will happen.
Nothing is original any more.
I think Alex did a good job with the GMMK release stuff but did he invent the Mexican/Desert sunrise gradient colorway? No, it's been around for a very long time, probably the 70s. So who did he "steal" the design from?
They look a bit cheap.. imo. The Glorious G PBT, I saw that yesterday too.
Glorious keycap legends are meh
@@s.l5787 IFK is DEFINITELY Garbage lol
Why are small companies in the mechanical keyboard niche so envious? The idea is to grow the niche, so that users have good products without paying overprices or having to wait two years.
They should of contacted him and given him commission but at the same time it’s a gradient that is a default in photoshop.
Alex is such a nice guy and its especially sad that Glorious did this to them given their behavior. Absolutely can't recommend anything by Glorious after this. Thanks for putting this out there for people like me that weren't aware of all of this
Imagine people complaining to Adobe for stealing “their” gradient and putting it in Photoshop 😂
no kidding lol
the only glorious product i own is a wrist rest
i never use it
Same. I tried to throw it away and it reappeared in my closet
I love your idea of selling the GMMK Pro - would the community that feel strongly be up for coming together to do something like resell modded versions that fixed the base model issues? That would be a powerful reaction that would choke the sales for sure. Hit em where it hurts - in their bottom line!
Sell ya Glorious stuff and go all in on Aether R2.
Word
20:20 couldn't agree more
it's just so demanding.. like they saw one TH-cam video and demand they get that keyboard/switch/keycap combo for retail from 3 years ago despite the demand being way higher after the hobby has grown in the past year or two years. yes, we know you want it. it's fine to want it. but why are you so angry that something with low supply has a high cost?
thanks for the concise information
hk gaming is based out of france btw o:
thanks for sharing! someone told me that on twitter.
Yo./././ The hot takes at the end of this!! YAS Get that ice cream weeng, or sell ice cream then get keycaps!
Hey, I am that casual person who only just now saw this criticism. I already used gmmk pro kits to build a few keyboards to learn about other components I put in. It's really unfortunate, but we do exist out here. I'm going to be looking for another beginner mid-budget kit for future builds, but I can't sell these without replacements ready, so I'm going to be sitting on this thing I was so excited about and be less inclined to share what I was so proud to finally be getting into. It's such a shady intro, it's really soured my experience. :(
Sorry to hear. Maybe try and grab a Bakeneko from cannonkeys?
@@AndyVNguyen Thanks for the recommendation. I ended up joining the groupbuy for Swift65 (the purple looked really nice). Any reason I should cancel that?
as I don't know too many little things and details about custom keyboard and all related stuff, can somebody explain to me why companies like gmk can't produce these cool looking sets of keycaps made by great and talented designers on larger volume? people for whom these sets will be expensive will always be in every industry, but the main problem is wait time and group buy process. wait from couple of months to 0.5+ year for set of cool keycaps to change the look of your keyboard is little bit too much. so what are the reasons for that. cause I, for example, changed my gaming keyboard for keychron k8 pro and loving the change of feel and sound and everything, but I want to change keycaps from stock ones and I can't do it with sets like sea salt or other. from gmk, cause the only ones that are available are just normal sets with different colors, but without novelties, without cool design ideas, just change of color. it's just very annoying and forcing to buy clones, but at the same time I understand that not supporting creative people who stand behind all of these sets isn't good and fair. so I would gladly hear the points about why custom keyboard hobby have group buys and low volumes. thx in advance and have a nice day!
there's not enough demand for niche colorways. when companies instock some colorways it's the more boring ones that will sell well. like you can get black, white, and beige keycaps almost any day of the week.
if you want more instock options kbdfans pbtfans is pretty good.
@@AndyVNguyen hmm, strange. I thought that more people would like to buy something like gmk dots, apollo, etc.
Most ppl don’t like dots bc you can’t see any letters lol. That’s why I sold mine
@@AndyVNguyen ok, so I think mby I applied my personal views about sets on other people. ok, anyway, thx for the info and answers :)
well, screw glorious.
IF Glorious copied the design (and it’s an IF, even though the commenters and this video seem to have some evidence to the contrary), I doubt they would put specifically that set as one of the most prominent ones in the release. They have multiple gradient options and they chose two to be the most visible. I give them the benefit of the doubt there.
Or if it's within warranty just return it
I have no dog in this fight but honestly the gpbt version looks better with that orange added, it just looks like a better done gradient with more keys for each color... IFK sets so far are just bad quality and those narrow shift arrows, that bad looking TAB icon is just a no from me fam. If you want to copy cherry's icons style, do it right. I don't know anything about gpbt quality but their competition here is a low bar to beat. So yeah if I were to buy into this design, I would probably go for the gpbt version, text mods are better than poorly done icon mods. It's not my thing so whatever.
edit: looks like they paid alex for these so I guess it's all good. Still I think Aether looks worse...
what ur talking about at the end, "why do you think ur entiled to it" isnt a good stance to have. i understand that clones arent good for the original designers, but clones contribute to the affordability to the hobby. making more people have acces to a set they enjoy looking at.
this isnt the only case of glorious doing shit like this. theyve been known to try to poach chinese manus from their partners, and im not even talking about HPs.
this is boring drama though, compared to whats happening to Rama rn. surprised theres not much publicity on that
What's going on with Rama?
yeahs whats happening with rama??
You can be upset and argue until you're blue in the face but, keycap cloning is entering the stage when watches started getting replicas decades ago. It hasn't stopped and it won't stop. Especially when the general view around the world is that keycap design is just a matter of stealing color, and therefore it's not a big deal. In comparison to stealing the physical design of a rolex 1:1, color copying 1:1 is completely overlooked.
I can totally see two different designers making similar patterns. It happens all the time in different industries.
If Alex does a new round of his Aether set, will all those complainers go and support him? I sure hope so.
Was trying to decide between the tofu65 and gmmk pro. You've just made that decision a whole lot easier
Yeah, neither.
Cancelled my Model O- W PO, and getting rid of my existing Model OW
I split my glorious model o in half before this whole thing so I'm glad that I did that lmfao
hahah now you can be free
For people that don't want to spend a bunch of money on keycaps and switches, such as Holy Pandas and GMK sets, what would you tell them to do instead of buying Glorious Pandas and HKGaming sets?
Boba u4t or KTT switches and novelkeys pbt or kinetic labs keycap sets
No one told Anyone to fuck off. You can’t assume everyone that buys legitimate products is well off. I’m a creator and I’m not well off. I have done 2-3 commission builds every week for almost two years and that helps grow my collection. My most used keycard set is GMK wob I bought from Amazon. Not everyone is entitled to have everything in the hobby. The hobby is a luxury hobby that no one needs to survive. If your budget is smaller you just need to make sacrifices as to what you can buy.
17:16 its me guys holy shit
LMAO nice :D
its just the same with the recipes for cooking, just a a pinch of salt and the recipe is not stolen anymore. same with a design of an object, i saw one stackable chair that is a legend. without any respect they just put a seat cover over it and now theyre selling it. theyre not even calling it by its original name, they call it a completely different name like hooper
Domikey and gmk are equal in quality. Even darker colors like purple or black are as vivid or even more so.
Don't be afraid to mix and match though. Along with tai hao and some other brands too if they are unilayer.
Just received gmk mecha01 berserker (gorgeous) alpha numeric set, going with gmk laser mod keys.
Waiting on domikey choco donuts alpha numeric and blue and yellow novelties. Along with some other domikey mods/chaser yellow novelties for the berserker
Fuck I wish I saw this before. I already spent money on a glorious wrist rest. At least I don't buy their GMK pro though
"Glorious. Made by gamers, for gamers."
looks at my gmmk pro......
Uhh if I could buy keycaps whenever I want it wouldn’t be a problem. But popular sets are literally out for only a couple months, days, or even minutes at best. Wait for a year for keycaps? That’s insane. If you’re mad about copying then this limited run gb things gotta go.
Was it ethically wrong for Glorious to use a similar colourway as Alex? Probably.
Is the colourway unique in this current keyboard environment ? Probably.
Is this colour gradient unique in regards to colour theory and other applications? No not at all.
A google search would demonstrate how common this colour way is used for abstract design art, even demonstrations of colour gradients schemes. Look towards photograghy if you want to see many great examples of well implemented colour grading.
Having only been in the hobby for a year due to lockdown. I strongly believe the demand has far outgrown the enthusiast hobby this once was and as a result business opportunities have arisen.
GBs' had low run units due to the inherent risk an individual would carry however a business with actual capital would have less issue running larger/unlimited volumes. This evolution is evident in all hobbies and its just a matter of time that people will have to accept that. There will stil be GBs for unique builds but there will be more instock larger volume items available, same item different buyers.
Yeah, I've been thinking about this. Not to undermine the efforts that people took to choose colorways of keycaps, but objectively speaking, I wouldn't go as far as calling it a "design" but more like taking the time to CHOOSE attractive colour schemes. Especially when there's tons of examples of colour schemes out there, who's to say that the "designer" didn't find something online that he really liked and ran it. I'm not suggesting he did, but I'm also not suggesting he didn't either. With that in mind, there's a possibility that the original "designer" already "stole" the idea from a website featuring a color scheme which he applied it to coloring the keycaps and then claim it as his own idea. I mean how much artistry do you really need to come up with pink, black and white. And then to call it a "design". It's not like you're working on a blank canvas either. You have your alphas, modifiers and accent keys, so you pick three colors. Maybe some might disagree, but I would hardly call that worthy of being called art. With all the above being considered, it's silly to get heated over the stealing of colorways because you really haven't stolen much at all. It's not like you copied a mona lisa and called it your painting.
There's nothing ethically wrong about using a similar color scheme. If we call this copying, Alexotos copied SA Vileploom and even near 100% copied the numpad gradient design. IFK Aether is an ugly ass keycap set that has nothing to do with its name aether (which is supposed to be invisible btw, based on quantum field theory). It's low quality thin PBT with bad legends that Alexotos never reviewed because he knows it's bad quality but wants people to buy them. Same goes for HipyoTech.
There are too many shitty designs like this in the hobby. They overload the GMK queue and of course they don't give a shit as long as it meets MOQ. When you pay GMK you are paying extra because they pay their workers better than Chinese companies (partly by law) and some of that money goes to the vendors + designer. Exactly what the distribution is no one can really say, I just don't find it any more admirable than buying from stuff that Chinese workers made. Most stuff we own are cheaper carbon copies of something else. It's literally not sustainable to buy patented garbage made in Germany. Eventually there will be a Chinese company that can keep prices down while coming up with original designs in PBT and can surpass GMK quality (which is already overrated), while avoiding the group buy model. Ultimately this is a first world problem though compared to medical companies charging a shit ton for their products because our lives depend on them.
tbf some keycap sets take like 3 min of photoshop to make
U first
in my opinion , its not only the pricing about the gmk(ofcourse it is a big factor too) that would push a new to "clone" keycaps ... its also the time that you need to wait.All the sets that are in gb right now are for Q1 of 2023 ... 23 ! If you consider that every set is going to have an unfortunate delay... we are talking about 18 months for you to take what you paid right now if not more . Gmk said that they were going to buy more machines if i remember right but since then nothing has changed.
Remember that 6 months of waiting was the worst case scenario ? Yeah ... me too.
tbf GMK has been getting sets out faster. Also the ETAs from new GBs are just made up numbers. You can't really forecast anything out past a year. So they end up being uber conservative.
I think the best way to "fix this" is to just contact Alex (the original designer) and make it as an official collaboration, aka paying royalties. I personally hate group buys because of the price attached to it and it takes too long, but I understand why it is necessary from the creative and logistical standpoint. Bringing more in stock option is always a good thing, but these large companies should do it the right way by contacting the original designers and give them a proper cut.
The real solution is no longer IC or even GB, just order production and sell instock like normal companies...
It takes so much money up front and risk to do that, though
@@zivens.2407 theres enough people and money in this hobby that the weight of fronting on the production first can be put onto the bigger sites that run the GBs anyways. Also gets the designers paid and a reasonable structure better as they work for those sites let alone exclusivity to drive traffic to their site.
@@clownd2 There's some pretty great people out there in the community, so I think if it was just that easy, some people would have experimented with it already to see if it works with all the design ideas coming in from GH.
great message.
You can actually trademark colors
is it expensive
@@AndyVNguyen it cost money for sure, typically less than $500. But the thing is it has to have some sort of identifiable function for your brand to stand out amongst the competition. Think about brand colors such as Coke and McDonalds. In this case, Alex could argue the colors used for Aether are his “brand” colors. Another use case for a trademarked color would be to incorporate your color(s) into your designs so that way if anyone copies it 1:1 (changing the colors wouldn’t be 1:1, it could likely pass as “heavily inspired” and changed slightly to “foster competition”) would be against your trademark.
I don’t see any identifiable colors or designs for this set on Glorious’ part besides perhaps the orange? But the colors used are typically more on brand with Alex designs and look in his videos.
@@AndyVNguyen So basically if a designer makes a set or mousepad that does not include their “colors,” there is not much they can do. For a bigger conpamy, look at Nike and their shoe designs, a good chunk of their designs are from designers who post them on social media and they’re never compensated.
I am the monster that's splits all the keys with ANSI enter. 🤪