@J-Man - Bummer to hear about your Musi Cap; I know it and the Virgo have been working great for you! Any thoughts on the immediate cause of the high frets - e.g. neck/fretboard shrinkage, loose frets, etc.?
@@j-man9457 Oh OK. It sounded like you were thinking it was the seasonal weather changes in PEI. Usually in that situation, I'd tweak my truss rod a bit if needed. So the StewMac file actually cost less than the FretGuru? Usually, StewMac costs more than others, so that's good thing given their lifetime warranty...
@@TechnoRiff I bought both on a sale... so regular price, maybe the Stewmac file is more? Not sure, but even on sale, I'm sure these fret files are way over priced lol
@@j-man9457 Just checked Amazon US. Currently, the StewMac is listed at $91 and the FretGuru at $60. Yes, overpriced! Definitely appreciate you blazing the way for the cheaperskates amongst us!
@@TechnoRiff hahaha! Don't mind blazing the way, but if I keep buying these things the blaze will get dim as I won't be able to afford matches hahaha! Those aren't bad prices... here in Canada, even on sale they are over 100$😖
I picked up a Fret Guru but I didn’t get the diamond, I got the regular file. I used to use a triangle Stew Mac safety file but got inconsistent results. The frets weren’t all identical.
Hey J, there is a guy on ebay D Drew who sells this crowning tool that basically is a small piece of wood with 2 cylindrical steel bars on the bottom that you wrap a flexible sanding sponge around and and go up and down the fretboard with as the rounded edges of the bar round out the frets.. I've crowned about 10 guitars using this method and it seems to work very well and takes very little time in comparison to using a file. I'm wondering how much better a file like this works compared to the method I mentioned and if you think the files have some advantages or disadvantages. I started leveling and crowning about 5 years ago but have only used this method as it seems to work well and the results have always been pretty good. Thanks bud hope all is well.
Hey cool man send me the link if you have time... For me, the only advantage to these files compared to sanding the crown on the frets, is the frets stay level with the files... when I used the sanding method I'd always end up with unlevel frets at the end....🤪
So far I’ve been very fortunate and haven’t had to do any fret work on my guitars. I’m pretty sure that luck will run out eventually and I don’t know if I could pull off Mike’s method.
Hahaha yeah unless you play extremely lightly and all of your guitars have SS frets, sooner or later you'll need to at least recrown if not level... Yeah 2BM method works great if you're good at exerting little to no pressure on each fret consistantly on every pass... I apparently am not lol! These files are definitely more work, but for me they are more consistant😁
With the guru you file from the other side on a set neck, and it seems the jumbo does not touch narrow frets and the narrow side slides over jumbo frets and does not cut.
Hmmm interesting Tim. First time using them so I'm not sure. Both files seem to work well on the SS medium frets on my Musi. Thanks for the info. I'll post again if I discover an issue for sure😀
the frets i used it on were worn and not so tall so it seemed to know , and my LP had barely anything to file soo low now she don't get much use anymore, hurts my back it's so heavy. Cheers.@@j-man9457
@@timscarrow9151 ahhh yes I understand.... yes on short or warn frets, I think the Stewmac file would be more effective. The shallow end of the Fretguru file starts at medium sized frets....🤔
As I won't get over $100 worth of use out of these files, I opted for a cheaper Chinese file that was about $13 or so on Amazon. I like StewMac's quality, but you pay a lot for the name. FretGuru created some hype around their file and overcharge, as well. If I were setting up a guitar repair shop, for sure I'd go with either of those two. Great compaarison video, J!
Yeah they are pricey but also guaranteed for life. I have a cheap chinese file here as well and the difference on the frets is huge! May have to post a comparison vid hahaha!
But StewMac tools sell really quick on eBay! Every time I've put on on eBay it sold on that day. And you get a good bit back on your investment, maybe 70-80%.
I suppose a steel wool sponge back and forth might work for a whole neck level, especially if you set up a rail and sled system above the neck at the right level to ensure 100% consistent action with the sponge, but that’s not very convenient if you’re just trying to do a spot level on 1 or 2 frets. It sounds like the StewMac tool definitely does the better job of crowning.
@@j-man9457 The reason the Fret Guru appears to leave a "cleaner finish" on the fret top is simply because it is not cutting as much of the material as the stew mac Z file so it will take longer for the same results. I know of several Top Luthiers that use and endorse the Z file whereas i know of no one that endorses the fret guru? When you have a guy like Dan Erlewine saying it (The Z file) is the best file then it probably is!😁
@@Murphy_R9 he probably gets his 150 dollar file for free to say that hahaha! But yes I agree the Z files are good for sure. I'm not talking about removing material I'm talking about the finish on the Fret between the two files. Better or not, the Z file leaves more tooling marks on the Fret whereas the fretguru seems to almost polish the fret as it removes material...
Thanks for the video. I'm curious though. You downplayed your sanding skills regarding using the sand only method. However, even if you use a bar and the z file, you'll still need to sand each fret anyway, so there is always a possibility where a fret can unlevel. Like I said I'm just curious. I usually do a leveling bar, 3 side file then sand and polish so I'm looking for pointers. I struggle on the sanding part since never really want to mess with the fret top too much. thanks again.
@@deans.4705 hey great question... I haven't found a fool proof method yet but I did discover the Musicnomad S-file crowning file with safe zone! It is amazing and almost polishes the frets as it crowns. Then I take sanding sponges I get on Amazon and start with 500 grit and work my way up to 2500 grit then finish with 0000 steel wool. So far great results and the 500 grit is enough to get rid of tool marks but not enough to take meat off of the fret or to reshape the crown... But when I did the sanding method where I went up and down the fret board to round the fret after the leveling bar, I'd start with 230-300 grit and I found I was unleveling my leveling job! Just find what works for you, there's no magic process that I have found as of yet 😃
@@j-man9457 thanks so much for the reply. I've done quite a few guitars at this point but I always seem to modify my approach based on previous struggles. I actually started getting my guitars Plek'd but then found that a year of temperature and humidity changes still has a bearing on a perfectly flat board. So...I'm back at it again. I have somewhat of a Stew Mac catalogue in the shop at this point...sanding papers, steel wool, straight bar, under the string file, leveling bar, files, nut files, rocker, kiss rocker.....now I'm looking at a small Z file which brought me here. :) thanks for the tip on the 500+sponges. I never understood why the inside of these files have teeth at the top and then comes along the Nomad file (which makes sense). If I'm using a leveling bar, why would I want to take stuff off the top of the fret. Other things I have learned, a neck under string stress is not the same as one without. You can have a perfectly flat board with no strings and then put them back on, adjust whatever and you may have a raised fret. Wood will bend where it wants to bend most. I do like the Mac understring level for that reason. After I'm done leveling and put the strings back on, there may be an area or two that changes. In comes the understring leveler or kiss rocker. Then I just take off the strings and re-polish that section again. thanks again.
@@deans.4705 yeah I hear you 100% that does happen, but mostly just on necks that have frets that have not been glued in only pressed in. If the fret is glued in I have found that it will rarely move under string tension changes and relief adjustments... 🤔
Hey Mr. J! I noticed that to my ear, the fret guru seemed to make a louder grating sound. The other thing I wanted to mention is that I’ve been scouring the internet to find out the cons against stainless steel guitar nuts. I’m really having a hard time finding more than one con. The con to using SS, is whatever adjustments might be desired including cutting the nut out of a piece of SS. But that makes no sense to me because everyone agrees SS does not deteriorate for literally decades and decades. The only other concern was the wear and tear on nickel strings. I checked into brass, a few types of bone, and graphite as far as I remember off hand. But SS is exclusively the only material that has two drawbacks and that one doesn’t make sense. Basically, everybody agreed SS is not, but almost nobody wanted to use it. But the reason I brought that up is because I saw a few blog-type conversations about string wear and tear. I’m telling you because I got the impression you were going for thin edged frets. If you are working on SS frets, you might be curious about the possible concern about stress between nickel and Stainless Steel. Thanks for this video. It was interesting too.
This guitar neck does have stainless SS, and realky thebonly draw back I can see is it takes longer to do a fret Job. I've never heard of a SS nut, but I think that would be awesome if it was properly cut and balanced. Let me know if you ever install one. You've picked my interest!
@@j-man9457 I am just assembling a procurement package in a way. I like to do that with just a portion of available funds, and plan for several differing avenues of extension. That way, I ‘ll know the reason my plans all went to hell. But I am scouring the earth in search of a reasonably weighty opinion against the use of SS nuts. I know of a few very opinionated individuals who might be at a loss of advice. If so, I might decide.
Cost vs other metals or bone that's easy to cut shape, and if you mess up with ss I imagine you have to start over again. Honestly I've never understood wanting to replace a well cut nut ( unless it's like plastic) with anything else. Bone is cheap, easy to cut and fix if you cut too deep nutslots, and sounds best to my ear
I broke down and bought a fret guru and I like it a lot, has a nice handle and works like a charm,I do have a stewmac small fret end file that was only $15 but their other products are pricy.
@@HighlineGuitars talked with the owner of FretGuru and he'll back up his file for longer than 30 days... I just bought the Musicnomad fret file, and it is FAR SUPERIOR than both SM and FG. No contest. Love it!
Hahaha! Really? You don't like the Musicnomad fret crowning file? Wow! I'm surprised... For me it's a far superior tool. Less effort and better results! Different strokes for different folks I guess! Rock on!
I have the FretGuru Dagger 2.0, and it works ok. I prefer my StewMac centered and offset. I have the StewMac mini (what you showed), but I haven’t used it yet. I’m sure I’ll have a use for it soon.
@@shadowghst7704 Hey I have since purchased the music nomad crowning file, and it is miles ahead of both of these! My Guru and SM file are just decorations in my man cave now hahaha!
You're supposed to flip the Z-file (centred or original). You use both sides of the file on each fret. That applies two angled facets to each side of the fret (smoothed a little by gentle rocking of the file). That way you quickly end up with a thin line. You don't just keep going on one side of the file like you did, until you grind down the fret sides. A curved concave file like the Fretguru is a completely different technique. You have to choose the right file side for the size of your fret, or you'll risk taking off some of the top of the fret. Used properly, the Z-file is much simpler.
@@vw9659 Thanks but I bought the centered Z file. According to the Stewmac website description, only the original Z file needs to be flipped: Original Z-File Two diamond edges speed the work, shaping both sides of the fret at once. Offset angles shape the fret higher on one side while the other side works lower. Use one side of the file, then flip it to the other side. This shape is ideal for worn, low, and wide frets. Centered Z-File Two diamond edges in a centered V-shape cut both sides of the fret at the same angle. Simple to use and fast working. This shape is ideal for new and taller frets. Anyway I threw out both of these since I discovered the Musicnomad fret file! Now that's a file. No contest😯😃🤘!
@@j-man9457 both z-files need to be flipped. They have the same dual facets, just applied in different order (one symmetrically, the other in assymetric order). It makes no sense to have just one flat facet on each side of a fret. Watch the original Stewmac z-file videos. The Music Nomad file is OK, but suffers from the same issue as all curved concave crowning files - the need to match the file size closely to the fret size. At least it has the safe strip (the z-file doesn't need that, as it's basically impossible for the vertex to ever contact the fret top). The flipped z-file works for a wider range of frets, with no choice necessary.
@@vw9659 thanks man. Good to know Stewmac should update their description on their website regarding the centered Z file... I specifically bought that one because I didn't want to have to flip a file on every fret! It's double the work...😖
Was looking at the Dagger 2.0, and I don't understand the price jump in Canada. $59USD after exchange is almost $78CAD, yet to buy it in Canada is $130CAD! I'm currently using a 3-sided file with a safe edge that's not as safe as it should be, and looking for a faster alternative, but, price is a bit of a deterrent... Dagger 2.0 also comes in two sizes now and you know whichever one you buy, you'll need the other. 😅
Hahaha isn't that always the case... I didn't know this at the time but fret guru has a Dimond file available now. Get that one. The one I have here is good but only files in 1 direction so not as efficient as the StewMac which is a diamond file!
The Dagger 2.0 is actually cheaper than the Stew Mac Z file. These files are totally different from one another so it's not really an accurate comparison. The Z file is actually a diamond file that cuts on both the push and pull strokes. This means that when you were doing 30 passes you really were doing 60 with the Z file. The Dagger 2.0 is a traditional metal file with grooved teeth that is only meant to cut on the push stroke or the direction of the cutting teeth. It sounded in your video like you were dragging the fret guru back along the fret on the pull stroke as well which you shouldn't be doing. To get even and fair results to compare you would need to do 60 passes with the Fret guru as it only cuts in one direction to 30 passes with the Z file. Fret Guru does make a diamond file as well that is around the same price as the Z File. Hopefully this helps clarify the differences in both of these files.
It's exactly those costs, which is why I won't put out the money for those files because, in my opinion they're just not worth the money, and the job can be done with the other means. And I found that the Chinese metal files for crowning work just as well in a spot situation where you've got a high end or something or a or a high middle you can get the meat off and then finish up with the Sandpaper and rubber mat in the center as I do it. Yes you have to be smooth and not put undue pressure on your sandpaper just like you do on the files. By the way you only counted your filing with those in One Direction because you pushed and pulled and you counted it as one you really did 60 passes across the Fret
60 yes you're right, however I'm not convinced these diamond files cut in both directions as the sound and feel different pushing as opposed to pulling which is why I just counted 1 for every push pull... I totally get you, but man I don't remember how many fret levels I've done with the sanding just to still have unlevel frets after the process was done. 🤯 But really when you think of it, if you have 40 guitars, and you crown them all, it's only 3 bucks per guitar. I picked up some sand papaer strips at CT yesterday and it was 6.49 for 3 strips of 8X4. The Automorive quality paper for wet / dry sanding... Not sure about the Fretguru, but the Stewmac file is guaranteed for life...
There's a huge delta between stewmac and generic Amazon, and for me the half way point is the sweet spot I've found. Stewmac makes great tools but those prices...really? I started with the budget neck straight edge and files etc, and ended up hating them and having to rebuy ever from Philadelphia Luither and now I'm happy for a good, but still way less than stewmac, cost. Had that fret guru tools at one point too but didn't like them and the PL tools were just a bit more expensive, but much better (cept for nut files I do have the fret guru nut files and they work fine enough)
@@kurtcobain14580 yeah, these files are over priced for sure. The FretGuru is way more versatile than the Stewmac. Your frets have to be narrow or the SM file will chew them up along the sides...
I have to jump in: the Fret Guru is NOT a diamond grit file. It is a proper file with teeth that cut. Yes, it only cuts in one direction. They are teeth, and they cut. The diamond grit " files" don't cut: they gouge and scrape like sandpaper does, leaving scratches behind in large quantities. It's like using a big metal sandpaper on your frets. The whole reason I paid the bucks and got the Guru Dagger 2.0. and I love it. Even the cheapest of the cheap diamond grit files will cut both ways and take material off fast. But they aren't cutting it off, they are scratching and gouging it off, leaving behind scratches galore, to be buffed out with several grits of Micromesh and a Dremel with a buffing wheel. I have found I get better results from the Dagger by rocking it slightly side to side kind of like it cradles the fret as it shapes and it cuts. It's only my opinion, but this is a product I really strongly believe in.
@@lynyrddeville hey I have to agree.... After using both of these for a while, and not being happy with either one, I bought a Musicnomad file. The Musicnomad fret file punches way above it's weight class! Amazing file. Perfect crown every time, and it almost polishes the fret as it crowns. Love it. I garbaged the other 2 hahaha!
I am seeing some misinformation on these files on utube where they are using them to take a high spot off the fret??? My question is, is the inside top raduis of those files abrasive??? It should only be taking the edges off and leaving the top unscaved. You did it right..... Im talking about a few others I've seen. Im asking the question because i want to purchase a crowning file because im tired of using a 3 corner file with a safe edge. Also, i have never even seen a crowning file. So watching other videos has me wondering if that top inside raduis is abrasive, and i dont want that. Im like you, i like a nice thin line on top of the crown Have a great day.
Yeah many files will take meat off of the top of the fret. Usually the cheaper ones. I have one of those that I use to address the odd high fret before crowning it properly. I think what you want is a centered Z file. StewMac sells a few different ones. These will not take meat off of the top of the fret and will give you that thin marker line across the top of the fret when crowning. 😀 Also the diamond coated files will file in both directions whereas the non diamond coated files only file when you're moving the file away from you...🙂
I couldn't imagine spending that amount of money on any fret file. I've only done one fret job in my time. I've used the 2BM method and although not perfect it did a good job for me (only my opinion) If I have any fret buzz my highly trained ears (ya right) can't hear it. But then again how much fret buzz can you hear playing Happy Birthday. If you're on the cheap like me, 2BM method is the way to go. It does get the job done. Good video again Jay. Honest and open!
I prefer the 2BM method, but I think my technique is just poor. After sanding bar my freta are nice and level then after crowning, they were not!🤯 With these files they remain level so all good! Hahaha But yes they are expensive!
what is the 2BM method? I'm getting back into playing with an older Yamag FG412 and the frets def need a little work so I've been learning how to level and crown. Just trying to figure out which file I should get and exactly what I need to polish after.
@@jonathangaliano2617 Do a search fro 2bikemike. He has a lot of videos. He eplain things very well. You may have to go through his videos. He does one on just fret leveling. Worked good for me, but then I'm not a seasoned player!
@@kayasper6081 old video haha. Info both! I have repaired and set up 47 guitars in the last 6 weeks and no complaints so far! I have also since discovered The music nomad fret file. Makes these 2 fret files featured look like toys. It's so good and it's fool proof. Every professional should have one or 3! Well thought out tool! 😀
@kayasper6081 oh ya for sure! It diamond coated and has a safe zone in the center so once your frets are level, there is no worry of over crowning, the safe zone ensures you don't remove any extra meat off of the already leveled frets... Perfectly leveled and crowned frets every time. These files also leave very little tooling marks on the frets, so polishing time is also reduced.
You are using wrong the z file. You have to learn how to use it. Ok. And by the cost, the price of stewmac is by forever, because if the tool get damaged, you just call them and they will sent to you a new one by free. Stewmac is excellent.
I’ve got the StewMac centered z-file, managed to achieve a very thin line on medium sized fret.
Thanks for throwing in the part about what to use with set necks, this swayed my decision. Great video!
You're very welcome!
Thanks for the comment!
@@wsteele1904 Set necks are a pain. I have some awesome files, but that S shaped one looks like a win..
@J-Man - Bummer to hear about your Musi Cap; I know it and the Virgo have been working great for you! Any thoughts on the immediate cause of the high frets - e.g. neck/fretboard shrinkage, loose frets, etc.?
Nope everything looks good in that aspect. I think they were high spots all along and I just really didn't notice... all good now though😀
@@j-man9457 Oh OK. It sounded like you were thinking it was the seasonal weather changes in PEI. Usually in that situation, I'd tweak my truss rod a bit if needed.
So the StewMac file actually cost less than the FretGuru? Usually, StewMac costs more than others, so that's good thing given their lifetime warranty...
@@TechnoRiff I bought both on a sale... so regular price, maybe the Stewmac file is more? Not sure, but even on sale, I'm sure these fret files are way over priced lol
@@j-man9457 Just checked Amazon US. Currently, the StewMac is listed at $91 and the FretGuru at $60. Yes, overpriced! Definitely appreciate you blazing the way for the cheaperskates amongst us!
@@TechnoRiff hahaha! Don't mind blazing the way, but if I keep buying these things the blaze will get dim as I won't be able to afford matches hahaha! Those aren't bad prices... here in Canada, even on sale they are over 100$😖
I picked up a Fret Guru but I didn’t get the diamond, I got the regular file. I used to use a triangle Stew Mac safety file but got inconsistent results. The frets weren’t all identical.
@@WickedFesterBand yeah I since got rid of both and got the Music Nomad S file! Fantastic and fool proof 😃
@ Thought about that one. Went with the Fret Guru and just did my first re fret. Turned out pretty good too!
@WickedFesterBand ahhh nice man! You gone one up on me! I never did a refret and I'd rather not get into it hahaha!
@ Son forced my hand by buying me tools for Christmas. Always hated that my Kramer Striker had tiny frets. It doesn’t now. lol
@WickedFesterBand week that's great man! Do you have a fret press machine or did you just tap them in?
Hey J, there is a guy on ebay D Drew who sells this crowning tool that basically is a small piece of wood with 2 cylindrical steel bars on the bottom that you wrap a flexible sanding sponge around and and go up and down the fretboard with as the rounded edges of the bar round out the frets.. I've crowned about 10 guitars using this method and it seems to work very well and takes very little time in comparison to using a file. I'm wondering how much better a file like this works compared to the method I mentioned and if you think the files have some advantages or disadvantages. I started leveling and crowning about 5 years ago but have only used this method as it seems to work well and the results have always been pretty good. Thanks bud hope all is well.
Hey cool man send me the link if you have time...
For me, the only advantage to these files compared to sanding the crown on the frets, is the frets stay level with the files... when I used the sanding method I'd always end up with unlevel frets at the end....🤪
th-cam.com/video/0CteDniihWM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-fNOso88zjiDxHq5@@j-man9457
Looks like he doesn't sell them any longer.
@@Stratisfied22 ahhh shoot! Ok thanks for the heads up buddy!
You can easily make that thing in 10 minutes so I sent you that vid so you can possibly try it.@@j-man9457
So far I’ve been very fortunate and haven’t had to do any fret work on my guitars. I’m pretty sure that luck will run out eventually and I don’t know if I could pull off Mike’s method.
Hahaha yeah unless you play extremely lightly and all of your guitars have SS frets, sooner or later you'll need to at least recrown if not level...
Yeah 2BM method works great if you're good at exerting little to no pressure on each fret consistantly on every pass... I apparently am not lol! These files are definitely more work, but for me they are more consistant😁
The z-file has diamonds and cuts both ways, where the guru only cuts one way. So 30 passes with the z is like 60 with the guru.
Hmmm interesting. That would explain why the guru file seems to polish the fret as it files... whereas the stewmac seems to scratch it up more!
The Fret Guru isn't diamond coated but rather the old standard type of file?
@@joeking433 yeah.... They do make a diamond coated one but apparently not the one I have😟
With the guru you file from the other side on a set neck, and it seems the jumbo does not touch narrow frets and the narrow side slides over jumbo frets and does not cut.
Hmmm interesting Tim. First time using them so I'm not sure. Both files seem to work well on the SS medium frets on my Musi. Thanks for the info. I'll post again if I discover an issue for sure😀
the frets i used it on were worn and not so tall so it seemed to know , and my LP had barely anything to file soo low now she don't get much use anymore, hurts my back it's so heavy. Cheers.@@j-man9457
@@timscarrow9151 ahhh yes I understand.... yes on short or warn frets, I think the
Stewmac file would be more effective. The shallow end of the Fretguru file starts at medium sized frets....🤔
As I won't get over $100 worth of use out of these files, I opted for a cheaper Chinese file that was about $13 or so on Amazon. I like StewMac's quality, but you pay a lot for the name. FretGuru created some hype around their file and overcharge, as well. If I were setting up a guitar repair shop, for sure I'd go with either of those two. Great compaarison video, J!
Yeah they are pricey but also guaranteed for life. I have a cheap chinese file here as well and the difference on the frets is huge! May have to post a comparison vid hahaha!
But StewMac tools sell really quick on eBay! Every time I've put on on eBay it sold on that day. And you get a good bit back on your investment, maybe 70-80%.
I suppose a steel wool sponge back and forth might work for a whole neck level, especially if you set up a rail and sled system above the neck at the right level to ensure 100% consistent action with the sponge, but that’s not very convenient if you’re just trying to do a spot level on 1 or 2 frets. It sounds like the StewMac tool definitely does the better job of crowning.
In general yes, however the Fretguru file leaves a cleaner finish meaning less tooling marks😀
@@j-man9457 Interesting… I wonder if the Fretguru will ever provide more sizes to better match some of the available fret sizes.
@@zuperdee not sure, this file covers medium to jumbo, but not much good for narrow / tall frets
@@j-man9457 The reason the Fret Guru appears to leave a "cleaner finish"
on the fret top is simply because it is not cutting as much of the material as the stew mac Z file so it will take longer for the same results. I know of several Top Luthiers that use and endorse the Z file whereas i know of no one that endorses the fret guru? When you have a guy like Dan Erlewine saying it (The Z file) is the best file then it probably is!😁
@@Murphy_R9 he probably gets his 150 dollar file for free to say that hahaha!
But yes I agree the Z files are good for sure. I'm not talking about removing material I'm talking about the finish on the Fret between the two files. Better or not, the Z file leaves more tooling marks on the Fret whereas the fretguru seems to almost polish the fret as it removes material...
Thanks for the video. I'm curious though. You downplayed your sanding skills regarding using the sand only method. However, even if you use a bar and the z file, you'll still need to sand each fret anyway, so there is always a possibility where a fret can unlevel. Like I said I'm just curious. I usually do a leveling bar, 3 side file then sand and polish so I'm looking for pointers. I struggle on the sanding part since never really want to mess with the fret top too much. thanks again.
@@deans.4705 hey great question... I haven't found a fool proof method yet but I did discover the Musicnomad S-file crowning file with safe zone! It is amazing and almost polishes the frets as it crowns. Then I take sanding sponges I get on Amazon and start with 500 grit and work my way up to 2500 grit then finish with 0000 steel wool. So far great results and the 500 grit is enough to get rid of tool marks but not enough to take meat off of the fret or to reshape the crown... But when I did the sanding method where I went up and down the fret board to round the fret after the leveling bar, I'd start with 230-300 grit and I found I was unleveling my leveling job! Just find what works for you, there's no magic process that I have found as of yet 😃
@@j-man9457 thanks so much for the reply. I've done quite a few guitars at this point but I always seem to modify my approach based on previous struggles. I actually started getting my guitars Plek'd but then found that a year of temperature and humidity changes still has a bearing on a perfectly flat board. So...I'm back at it again. I have somewhat of a Stew Mac catalogue in the shop at this point...sanding papers, steel wool, straight bar, under the string file, leveling bar, files, nut files, rocker, kiss rocker.....now I'm looking at a small Z file which brought me here. :) thanks for the tip on the 500+sponges. I never understood why the inside of these files have teeth at the top and then comes along the Nomad file (which makes sense). If I'm using a leveling bar, why would I want to take stuff off the top of the fret. Other things I have learned, a neck under string stress is not the same as one without. You can have a perfectly flat board with no strings and then put them back on, adjust whatever and you may have a raised fret. Wood will bend where it wants to bend most. I do like the Mac understring level for that reason. After I'm done leveling and put the strings back on, there may be an area or two that changes. In comes the understring leveler or kiss rocker. Then I just take off the strings and re-polish that section again. thanks again.
@@deans.4705 yeah I hear you 100% that does happen, but mostly just on necks that have frets that have not been glued in only pressed in. If the fret is glued in I have found that it will rarely move under string tension changes and relief adjustments... 🤔
Hey Mr. J! I noticed that to my ear, the fret guru seemed to make a louder grating sound. The other thing I wanted to mention is that I’ve been scouring the internet to find out the cons against stainless steel guitar nuts. I’m really having a hard time finding more than one con. The con to using SS, is whatever adjustments might be desired including cutting the nut out of a piece of SS. But that makes no sense to me because everyone agrees SS does not deteriorate for literally decades and decades. The only other concern was the wear and tear on nickel strings. I checked into brass, a few types of bone, and graphite as far as I remember off hand. But SS is exclusively the only material that has two drawbacks and that one doesn’t make sense. Basically, everybody agreed SS is not, but almost nobody wanted to use it.
But the reason I brought that up is because I saw a few blog-type conversations about string wear and tear. I’m telling you because I got the impression you were going for thin edged frets. If you are working on SS frets, you might be curious about the possible concern about stress between nickel and Stainless Steel. Thanks for this video. It was interesting too.
Replacing strings is a LOT cheaper and easier than refretting, or any sort of fret work.
This guitar neck does have stainless SS, and realky thebonly draw back I can see is it takes longer to do a fret Job. I've never heard of a SS nut, but I think that would be awesome if it was properly cut and balanced. Let me know if you ever install one. You've picked my interest!
@@j-man9457 I am just assembling a procurement package in a way. I like to do that with just a portion of available funds, and plan for several differing avenues of extension. That way, I ‘ll know the reason my plans all went to hell. But I am scouring the earth in search of a reasonably weighty opinion against the use of SS nuts. I know of a few very opinionated individuals who might be at a loss of advice. If so, I might decide.
Cost vs other metals or bone that's easy to cut shape, and if you mess up with ss I imagine you have to start over again. Honestly I've never understood wanting to replace a well cut nut ( unless it's like plastic) with anything else. Bone is cheap, easy to cut and fix if you cut too deep nutslots, and sounds best to my ear
I bought a stainless steel zero fret (Zero Glide) and it wore grooves in it in no time! Yet a plastic nut never seems to wear out.
I broke down and bought a fret guru and I like it a lot, has a nice handle and works like a charm,I do have a stewmac small fret end file that was only $15 but their other products are pricy.
They are nice for sure, but yes pricey! Crazy really!
Hmm... $90 for the Fretguru and a 30-day limited replacement warranty versus $95 for the Stewmac Z-file and a lifetime replacement warranty.
@@HighlineGuitars talked with the owner of FretGuru and he'll back up his file for longer than 30 days...
I just bought the Musicnomad fret file, and it is FAR SUPERIOR than both SM and FG. No contest. Love it!
@@HighlineGuitars Buy once, Cry once… I did, and I did..
Hahaha! Really? You don't like the Musicnomad fret crowning file? Wow! I'm surprised... For me it's a far superior tool. Less effort and better results!
Different strokes for different folks I guess!
Rock on!
No brainer if you ask me.
@@michael_caz_nyc old post. I have since purchased a Music Nomad fret file! It is far superior than these 2! It's awesome!
I have the FretGuru Dagger 2.0, and it works ok. I prefer my StewMac centered and offset. I have the StewMac mini (what you showed), but I haven’t used it yet. I’m sure I’ll have a use for it soon.
@@shadowghst7704 Hey I have since purchased the music nomad crowning file, and it is miles ahead of both of these! My Guru and SM file are just decorations in my man cave now hahaha!
@@j-man9457 Do you mean the “s” file?
@@shadowghst7704 as far as I know they only make 1. Yeah the blue S file by musicnomad. It's awesome!
@@j-man9457 I just received the S-file, but haven’t used it yet. I hope it’s a game changer.
@@shadowghst7704 I love mine so much, I bought a 2nd one. Makes for quick and easy work crowning frets 😃
I have both. Regular z file not the short, but the guru files super clean.
@@JohnnyAyermusic yeah agreed, however, since this video, I've purchased the Music Nomad A file. Wow the other 2 pale in comparison! No contest 😃🤘
@@j-man9457 just picked up the nomad nut files… crazy good!
Holy Fret Files J-Man, you are becoming Da Man of many talents!!
No talent here buddy! The files take the guess work out of crowning. Even I can't mess it up hahaha!
You're supposed to flip the Z-file (centred or original). You use both sides of the file on each fret. That applies two angled facets to each side of the fret (smoothed a little by gentle rocking of the file). That way you quickly end up with a thin line. You don't just keep going on one side of the file like you did, until you grind down the fret sides.
A curved concave file like the Fretguru is a completely different technique. You have to choose the right file side for the size of your fret, or you'll risk taking off some of the top of the fret.
Used properly, the Z-file is much simpler.
@@vw9659 Thanks but I bought the centered Z file. According to the Stewmac website description, only the original Z file needs to be flipped:
Original Z-File
Two diamond edges speed the work, shaping both sides of the fret at once. Offset angles shape the fret higher on one side while the other side works lower. Use one side of the file, then flip it to the other side. This shape is ideal for worn, low, and wide frets.
Centered Z-File
Two diamond edges in a centered V-shape cut both sides of the fret at the same angle. Simple to use and fast working. This shape is ideal for new and taller frets.
Anyway I threw out both of these since I discovered the Musicnomad fret file! Now that's a file. No contest😯😃🤘!
@@j-man9457 both z-files need to be flipped. They have the same dual facets, just applied in different order (one symmetrically, the other in assymetric order). It makes no sense to have just one flat facet on each side of a fret. Watch the original Stewmac z-file videos.
The Music Nomad file is OK, but suffers from the same issue as all curved concave crowning files - the need to match the file size closely to the fret size. At least it has the safe strip (the z-file doesn't need that, as it's basically impossible for the vertex to ever contact the fret top).
The flipped z-file works for a wider range of frets, with no choice necessary.
@@vw9659 thanks man. Good to know Stewmac should update their description on their website regarding the centered Z file... I specifically bought that one because I didn't want to have to flip a file on every fret! It's double the work...😖
Was looking at the Dagger 2.0, and I don't understand the price jump in Canada. $59USD after exchange is almost $78CAD, yet to buy it in Canada is $130CAD! I'm currently using a 3-sided file with a safe edge that's not as safe as it should be, and looking for a faster alternative, but, price is a bit of a deterrent... Dagger 2.0 also comes in two sizes now and you know whichever one you buy, you'll need the other. 😅
Hahaha isn't that always the case... I didn't know this at the time but fret guru has a Dimond file available now. Get that one. The one I have here is good but only files in 1 direction so not as efficient as the StewMac which is a diamond file!
Do you know what the warranty is on the Fret Guru ?
@@jimdoner3443 I think their diamond file version is lifetime, but the one I have. Isn't a their diamond version...
The Dagger 2.0 is actually cheaper than the Stew Mac Z file. These files are totally different from one another so it's not really an accurate comparison. The Z file is actually a diamond file that cuts on both the push and pull strokes. This means that when you were doing 30 passes you really were doing 60 with the Z file. The Dagger 2.0 is a traditional metal file with grooved teeth that is only meant to cut on the push stroke or the direction of the cutting teeth. It sounded in your video like you were dragging the fret guru back along the fret on the pull stroke as well which you shouldn't be doing. To get even and fair results to compare you would need to do 60 passes with the Fret guru as it only cuts in one direction to 30 passes with the Z file. Fret Guru does make a diamond file as well that is around the same price as the Z File. Hopefully this helps clarify the differences in both of these files.
Thanks!😀
It's exactly those costs, which is why I won't put out the money for those files because, in my opinion they're just not worth the money, and the job can be done with the other means. And I found that the Chinese metal files for crowning work just as well in a spot situation where you've got a high end or something or a or a high middle you can get the meat off and then finish up with the Sandpaper and rubber mat in the center as I do it. Yes you have to be smooth and not put undue pressure on your sandpaper just like you do on the files. By the way you only counted your filing with those in One Direction because you pushed and pulled and you counted it as one you really did 60 passes across the Fret
60 yes you're right, however I'm not convinced these diamond files cut in both directions as the sound and feel different pushing as opposed to pulling which is why I just counted 1 for every push pull... I totally get you, but man I don't remember how many fret levels I've done with the sanding just to still have unlevel frets after the process was done. 🤯
But really when you think of it, if you have 40 guitars, and you crown them all, it's only 3 bucks per guitar. I picked up some sand papaer strips at CT yesterday and it was 6.49 for 3 strips of 8X4. The Automorive quality paper for wet / dry sanding...
Not sure about the Fretguru, but the Stewmac file is guaranteed for life...
There's a huge delta between stewmac and generic Amazon, and for me the half way point is the sweet spot I've found. Stewmac makes great tools but those prices...really? I started with the budget neck straight edge and files etc, and ended up hating them and having to rebuy ever from Philadelphia Luither and now I'm happy for a good, but still way less than stewmac, cost. Had that fret guru tools at one point too but didn't like them and the PL tools were just a bit more expensive, but much better (cept for nut files I do have the fret guru nut files and they work fine enough)
@@kurtcobain14580
I bought a few things from Philadelphia also
@@kurtcobain14580 yeah, these files are over priced for sure. The FretGuru is way more versatile than the Stewmac. Your frets have to be narrow or the SM file will chew them up along the sides...
I have both and by far prefer the fret guru file.
Yeah I think I agree with you. The Stewmac file is too narrow! It just chews up the sides of the fret!
I have to jump in: the Fret Guru is NOT a diamond grit file. It is a proper file with teeth that cut. Yes, it only cuts in one direction. They are teeth, and they cut. The diamond grit " files" don't cut: they gouge and scrape like sandpaper does, leaving scratches behind in large quantities. It's like using a big metal sandpaper on your frets. The whole reason I paid the bucks and got the Guru Dagger 2.0. and I love it. Even the cheapest of the cheap diamond grit files will cut both ways and take material off fast. But they aren't cutting it off, they are scratching and gouging it off, leaving behind scratches galore, to be buffed out with several grits of Micromesh and a Dremel with a buffing wheel. I have found I get better results from the Dagger by rocking it slightly side to side kind of like it cradles the fret as it shapes and it cuts. It's only my opinion, but this is a product I really strongly believe in.
@@lynyrddeville hey I have to agree.... After using both of these for a while, and not being happy with either one, I bought a Musicnomad file. The Musicnomad fret file punches way above it's weight class! Amazing file. Perfect crown every time, and it almost polishes the fret as it crowns. Love it. I garbaged the other 2 hahaha!
I am seeing some misinformation on these files on utube where they are using them to take a high spot off the fret???
My question is, is the inside top raduis of those files abrasive???
It should only be taking the edges off and leaving the top unscaved.
You did it right.....
Im talking about a few others I've seen.
Im asking the question because i want to purchase a crowning file because im tired of using a 3 corner file with a safe edge.
Also, i have never even seen a crowning file. So watching other videos has me wondering if that top inside raduis is abrasive, and i dont want that.
Im like you, i like a nice thin line on top of the crown
Have a great day.
Yeah many files will take meat off of the top of the fret. Usually the cheaper ones. I have one of those that I use to address the odd high fret before crowning it properly. I think what you want is a centered Z file. StewMac sells a few different ones. These will not take meat off of the top of the fret and will give you that thin marker line across the top of the fret when crowning. 😀 Also the diamond coated files will file in both directions whereas the non diamond coated files only file when you're moving the file away from you...🙂
@@j-man9457
Thank you
@@Vern859 no worries bud!
I couldn't imagine spending that amount of money on any fret file. I've only done one fret job in my time. I've used the 2BM method and although not perfect it did a good job for me (only my opinion) If I have any fret buzz my highly trained ears (ya right) can't hear it. But then again how much fret buzz can you hear playing Happy Birthday. If you're on the cheap like me, 2BM method is the way to go. It does get the job done. Good video again Jay. Honest and open!
I prefer the 2BM method, but I think my technique is just poor. After sanding bar my freta are nice and level then after crowning, they were not!🤯
With these files they remain level so all good! Hahaha
But yes they are expensive!
what is the 2BM method? I'm getting back into playing with an older Yamag FG412 and the frets def need a little work so I've been learning how to level and crown. Just trying to figure out which file I should get and exactly what I need to polish after.
@@jonathangaliano2617 Do a search fro 2bikemike. He has a lot of videos. He eplain things very well. You may have to go through his videos. He does one on just fret leveling. Worked good for me, but then I'm not a seasoned player!
Its a Bull Dagger!!!!!!!!!!!! Full watch Mean Boy!!!!!! its diamond coated Nitty Gritty!!!!
Thanks bud!
Both work well. Not sure there's a clear winner hahaha
Nice!! Thanks.
As a hobbiest, you should just play your guitar. That'll be more fun.Let the filing and the suffering to us, professionals.
@@kayasper6081 old video haha. Info both! I have repaired and set up 47 guitars in the last 6 weeks and no complaints so far! I have also since discovered The music nomad fret file. Makes these 2 fret files featured look like toys. It's so good and it's fool proof. Every professional should have one or 3! Well thought out tool! 😀
@@j-man9457I don't know that file, but certainly will check it out now. Thanks!
@kayasper6081 oh ya for sure! It diamond coated and has a safe zone in the center so once your frets are level, there is no worry of over crowning, the safe zone ensures you don't remove any extra meat off of the already leveled frets... Perfectly leveled and crowned frets every time. These files also leave very little tooling marks on the frets, so polishing time is also reduced.
You are using wrong the z file. You have to learn how to use it. Ok. And by the cost, the price of stewmac is by forever, because if the tool get damaged, you just call them and they will sent to you a new one by free. Stewmac is excellent.
@@espiritguitaryeah old video! I never use these files anymore. I tried the Music Nomad S file and I'm sold! Fantastic!