Cheating in Elite Dangerous and Why You Should Care (Combat, Power Play, BGS, PvP, PvE)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ก.ค. 2024
- In this Elite Dangerous video from EDTutorials by Exigeous we look at the issues around cheating in Elite Dangerous, how it affects ALL players and why you should care about cheating regardless of your play style between combat, power play, BGS, PvP, PvE, Trade, Mining or ANY play style possible in Elite Dangerous.
Reddit Post by Ryan_M17
▶️ / serious_cheating_in_el...
Obsidian Ant's Video:Hacking and Cheating Tools - Infinite Shields, Custom Modules and More - It's Real
▶️ • Elite Dangerous - Hack...
CMDR Plater's Video: Elite: Dangerous - Hacks Exposed
▶️ • Elite: Dangerous - Hac...
The history of cheating in video games
▶️en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheatin...
Elite Dangerous Terms of Service
▶️www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/
Soholia prepping automated bots
▶️ • Soholia prepping autom...
Chapters
00:00 History
01:16 Multiplayer vs Single Player
02:01 Cheating in Elite Dangerous
02:56 Why You Should Care About Cheating
03:30 Responding to Cheaters
04:19 Frontier's Response to Cheaters
06:57 Why Discuss Cheating
07:42 What's Next for Cheating
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Reddit thread from Ryan_M17 - please share your thoughts there: www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/boy6d9/serious_cheating_in_elite_dangerous/
I don't cheat, but I wish the grind was a bit less repetitive sometimes
And that's why you're subbed to my channel as I'll always show you the most efficient way of doing things, in the most efficient way possible so you can play more and watch/work less.
I sure could use a cheat to not have to buy powerplay fortify packages a meagre amount at a time. Will never get that time back trying to fill up my Type 9 for the sake of Gundam missile racks.
One possible way to fight against cheaters is not react to their actions in any way. Just smile and drift away. :)
I dont cheat but this dumb engineer system is making me consider it. I just wanna explore the black, not grind away my life, did that in EVE.
I already have a fulltime day jerb
I would love to use an Infinite credits mod only, buying a ship then grinding away to blow it all on one vessel kinda sucks.
I remember having a guy just teleporting around me, thought it was lag in Supercruise.
Suddenly out of no-where with no interdiction I dropped out of space on-top of a planet I wasn't even near under 10k.
He had also teleported with me. Except he didn't cancel out his momentum I guess and crashed himself into the planet.
Which at the time I was shocked but I absolutely laughed at his demise.
The only reason I believe that particular cmdr was cheating was because it happened a second time and one-shot me with a cannon. He was Eagle I was Python.
But other than that I've never seen it, I always had assumed it was pretty damn rare.
Thanks for this kind of publicity. Having voices about these things inspires work from devs, unifies the community, and can strengthen the game's popularity and reputation over time.
For those of us working with player factions, having some cheating jerk with infinite jump range and cargo space in solo can wreak havoc upon the BGS and Power Play rankings.
Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if a handful of hackers cheating the crap out of Power Play was the reason why Archon Delaine rose out of 11th place. 😏
^THIS - THIS is what these "I don't care if people cheat as I play in solo" idiots don't understand. Thanks for sharing.
@@Exigeous so much for keeping it constructive and not being toxic
Okay, okay. My apologies for going negative. I'm sure many supporters of Archon Delaine are upstanding members of their criminal syndicate. 😉
@@jons787 I meant exigeous calling people idiots.
@@Yevlentieve well, they are idiots... And if "idiots" is offensive to you how do you even log on to the interwebs?
I had no idea that there were hacks in Elite, I always just assumed the game was too complicated and scripters were too lazy, and it seems I was right until a year ago. As for combat logging, my stance has always been: I don't do it personally (for me it's because it breaks the immersion), but I don't blame people for doing it. It's simply too accessible and too tempting. It would be very easy for Elite to implement a system against combat-loggers where their ship would remain in the game after they log off, or where there's a timer for logging off after their ship is damaged by another player.
On a side note, I respect and even sometimes appreciate getting pirated by other players, as it adds value to my gaming experience in the form of role-playing, and requires me to learn new ways to get around it. But some people just want to watch the world burn and will troll people in open. The worst example of this I've seen is someone 'ganking' a fuel rat some 20k LY from the bubble.
There have been multiple waves of hacks in elite since launch. They appear, get defeated by frontier then more are developed. Back in 2015 there were invincibility, increased damage and increased powerplant output hacks, as an example.
@@khaitomretro Oh.
actually, it is impossible to stop combat logging. if ED was a server based game you could do exactly as you say, it's not. it's peer to peer, which means task-killing the application will remove your ship from the game every time, no way around it. until and unless ED becomes a true server game c-logging will stay (ED does have servers but the only thing they do is run the BGS, we don't "play" on those servers)
@@figjam9530 I'm much more familiar with server-run games than I am with P2P games. But I think it might work if they made a server that would act as a stand-in for your P2P client in the event of a combat log.
Add to this a combat log timer that would warn you when you're about to log out "Your ship will remain drifting in space for 30 seconds if you log out now, are you sure you want to leave the game?".
Then, to make this actually punish combat loggers, whenever you connect to the server and it verifies your game files, it would tell your client "By the way, you died after logging out of your last session, here's your rebuy cost".
Did Frontier think this through? Ban cheaters to solo mode, where they can still use cheats to totally wreck the BGS....well that was smart of them.
David Entz You’re missing the point, people that cheat aren’t going to do BGS with it, lol
True griefers don’t do BGS man, come on.
Really
And if you be banned to solo you can’t manipulate the BGS anyway.
[TFN] Two Friend Nation that’s not true, solo affects BGS
@@kevinweaver9312 But if you banned its not.
I think this is a well thought out presentation. I myself am part of a group through discord that wishes no cheating, including logging off during battles. We should be able to enjoy this game to its fullest wether we enjoy the grind or not. That's the point of the game, to play as it was meant to be played
Engineering is SO OP that I honestly consider that a form of legal cheating. Most of us normal players dont have several hours each day to grind for months to engineer ONE ship, and those modded ships are SO much more powerful over normal ships, that only after 1 month of playing this game, ive realized that I will NEVER play on the open server
You've got great content and presentation here; should be more subs but I hope you get there. Also, the timeline in the top of the video is a nice touch, and I'd like to see others copy it.
Well said!! Agree 100% this should be a top priority both from a policy/enforcement stance and in terms of searching for technical solutions.
As a BGS/PP player, cheating and botting really spoiled that part of the game for me. We just simply lost the ability to swing systems or avoid bad preps. Things are a bit better at present but it took months for folks to get to that point.
Ding Ding Ding - thanks for sharing this as all these people saying "who cares if you cheat in solo" Really says something about today's world and where our leaders have taken us that people just don't care about cheating in general. So long as you get yours who cares, right?
@@Exigeous it used to be really cool: flying big ships with tens of millions of credits of cargo in open, combat wings helping allies undermine, late night fortification runs, setting up wars and booting enemy factions back to their home. Then the bots came. It's still fun just not...magic.
Great video. Well formatted, intelligent and well thought out attitude towards the issue. 👍🏼👍🏼
I do hope Frontier find a way to address this ASAP.
Thanks much, I appreciate the level headed response, exactly what's needed to address this issue.
CMDR Exigeous agreed. See you in the black
CMDR CYFUS
Fdev should use game mechanics to "reward" cheating. Once a cheater is identified, set a bounty on that cheating player and let the community sort it out. The greater the use and effectiveness of the cheats, the higher the bounty and the longer duration of the bounty.
@@rocket36 how would that work? If i have infinite health and shields, it doesnt matter how large my bounty is. Im STILL going to woop everyones ass, no matter how many people come after me. Hell, i would just throw in some insta-kill multicannons just for shits and giggles
I dont do this, but just saying
@@mattcryptonic870 once your noteriety gets high enough, not only you will have restricted access to other parts of the game, but NPCs would be after you as well. Yes you may win a lot of fights but good luck finding a space station or settlement to land at. And public enemy number one.... Well every faction in existence would be after you. So all you would do is fend everything off everywhere you go. No missions, no social hubs, no station services, no buying new ships, the offender wouldn't be able to spend a single credit anywhere..... If it got that bad.... Not that you do because you don't... It is a good example of the extreme, besides I am sure frontier has an npc that can beat infinite shields, etc....
Cheating in Elite PvP is so obvious and unnecessary it's just sad tbh - weapons that do way more damage than they should, shields that tank and regen ridiculously, crazy hull integrity... all things that the community easily identifies.
Hacking in Elite not only ruins the experience for everyone else, it isolates you from the community in general.
I think the ability to be in any point in the galaxy in a minute would be great for sight seeing though.
@Vlodec Mate I've been PvPing for 3 years I can tell the difference between hacks and engineered modules lol
@@geist-2111 And I think instant ship transfer times would make the game better and way less tedious - I'm still never going to use hack to get it though, because hacking in a MP game is dumb.
@Vlodec Check timestamp 7:16 in the video, look at the name of the person in wing.
@Vlodec Goes to show that not only was the hacking I described noticed by more than one person, it has been considered confirmed enough to be included as an example in this video. I even have my perspective of that engagement, over 24 minutes of it, uploaded.
Suggestion: Add a lockstep-esque check on values. Because ship data has to be synced to all players in that instance, those players could verify each other and if something is amiss, auto-report a cheater and separate the instance (so cheaters are automatically disconnected from other players).
Such a validation and verification should also be done for damage calculation.
This check should be done in realtime. If it proves stable enough, this can be extended to actions like leaving supercruise or high-waking to certain stars.
Good work guys, I would say the ball is in Fronteir's Court now and you have done the player base of Elite Dangerous a service with your work!! Thank you
Excellent video - thank you for covering this topic. However, I think the root of this problem is in fact the design choices Frontier took with ED. In fact, two specific design issues. The first was their decision to merge the stand-alone and PVP modes to run on a single universe. Initially [I was part of the Design Decision Forum and a Kickstarter] we were told that the stand-alone game would be completely off-line and fully stand-alone. The decision that reversed this position came less than a month before game release, long after core game mechanics were finished. If Frontier had stuck with their initial plan for a fully stand-alone option, then this would not have been an issue.
The second was their decision to make the game a ridiculous grind-fest, an exercise in self-flagellation of epic proportions. I don't know the reasons for this; I think this was done because of the relatively tiny budget with which the game was produced - they simply didn't have the funds to develop lots of complex content. They made the game a grind because of the risk of people getting to Triple-Elite in a few months and simply walking away from the game. But the net result has been that players who like the game mechanics get turned off by the hundreds of hours of grind needed to get progress. And does "progress" get you anything? No. So they designed a game that combined badge collecting with self-flagellation.
I do think it is possible to salvage this, however... They could re-visit the stand-alone mode decision and retrospectively add it; they could put some actual effort into some of the features that were promised in the Kickstarter videos [and which haven't been delivered, years later].
I don't think they will do any of these things, sadly. The main reason is that if they do something now, after all this time, it would be a kick in the teeth for people who have worked so hard without cheating up until this point.
But here's the thing: I started playing this game a year after launch, at the suggestion of a work colleague who had just bought a copy. For 2 or 3 years I was pulling slowly but steadily ahead in terms of rank progression, fleet and funds. Then suddenly, over the course of literally just a couple of weeks, my friend suddenly earned stupid amounts of money, got to Elite in both Combat and Trade ranks and was more than half way to Explorer rank too. I never figured out what happened - he reckoned that he'd found some super-lucrative trading run that got him literally billions and an Elite trade rank, then used that the buy combat ships and equipment that got him the combat rank.
Now I think I know how he did it. But, that was enough to convince me to give up the game completely. It's now been more than 2 years since I played and I have no real incentive to go back. I prefer X3 Terran Conflict with the XTC mod pack... Not quite as pretty; flight physics not quite as good; but I can play stand-alone, I can make actual progress, the game has MUCH more variety.
Elite Dangerous - defeat snatched from the jaws of victory...
Well stated. I'm just speechless as to Frontier's seeming indifference in THESE matters, especially (ie the cheating) -but also their utter lack of engagement with the community in general.
Their indifference is a little insulting, to be frank.
How would you get these? All I do is mining and ONLY mining, and would love whatever get these to increase that aspect for me (like instead of jumping 20 jumps to a station when full when it takes 10 for the ship with nothing in the cargo)
Great video, I'm very glad that more and more creators are talking about this. We need to expose this problem and the cheaters.
Thanks for sharing this information, I truly hope it’s stamped on by fdev
Perma ban to solo?
So BGS can still be fked with.
Cool beans, there is no ban.
Shadow ban would send them to a separate form of solo play where they can’t manipulate the BGS.
_or so we were told for a long time_
That's EXACTLY right - and one of the huge problems.
Exactly! We were always led to believe that the shadow ban would send them to what's effectively their own universe where they can't screw with everyone elses BGS, if this isn't the case then there's literally no reason not to cheat.
If they figured out how to cheat at this level, what's to say they wont figure out other ways to effect other aspects of the game from solo and not just the BGS? Could you imagine while they cheat the BGS in solo, suddenly open and PG you get systems that payout billion credit missions, or systems that suddenly have Shinrarta Dezhra like properties with every module, or modules and ships cost close to nothing. I don't know what this cheat can do, but smart young guys with a chip on their shoulder and plenty of time have been known to get "creative". Banning to solo is going to work so well (rolls eyes). Oh well have my popcorn and drink ready.
What is bgs?
If you'd like to continue the conversation with us in Discord please join us in the #Cheating-In-Elite channel - discord.gg/ScxyTS8
As a new player always in solo I get a fright when an NPC pirate interdicts me, turning off interdiction seems really appealing to me. How would that affect the BGS other than disappointing the NPC?
instead of banning players for combat logging a system that keeps their ship in the game for a period of time except if they're not in combat. So ships can't clog stations after logout.
I doubt this is possible due to the netcode that FDEV uses, its a peer2peer setup, not a server based one, at least for the multiplayer instancing. This is why they can combat log in the first place.
@@gking1022 There is something that you maybe aren't thinking of. If you start banning people for combat logging how did you rule out that their internet crashed, computer crashed, or the many other possibilities that could arise to know for sure that their intent was to do that? I don't know how anyone could ever do that. So you could have a system that wrongfully bans people based on an assumption of guilt. That's pretty crappy too. Its the developers responsibility to make the game in a way that makes the enforcing of rules or policy embedded in the game.
Just make it that task killing the app has the effect of keeping the ship in game for the same 14 seconds of waiting that writing through the menu has.
I cant see how this is an issue.
We all paid to have fun in this or any game that we buy. If my pleasure is non-combat and I have no skills or a ship that can do combat, why would I let someone pull me out of supercruise and kill me so they can have fun? Yes, I know you don't have to fly in open. I personally will not fly in open when I'm doing trade or mining, but some players like to be in a game with others. If they're going to get killed because there a non-combat player let them drop the connection, only thing is FD should have it there ship stays in-game for 30 secs after the drop. Gives the combat player a chance at still get there kill or if the hatch can be poped that fast loot.
Excellent video! This is absolutely something that's gone on for too long and Frontier needs to make a solid stand against cheating.
That's the crap you get with F2P games. The only people that should be held accountable are people who complains about subscription models.
The game budget is a huge factor and F2P means you lack flexibility to do anything of significance, which includes customer service when you need it.
@Christian Weissmuller -- Where is the rest of the formula? You know, the one that shows how much it cost for a persistent server for a multiplayer game or the cost for maintenance, patches, anti-cheat software, Devs Salary, advertisement, etc.
I like numbers, but you only showed me a single line equation.
i just started playing ed for 2 weeks and i want to thank you for your videos :) i saw some ed videos from mighty_jingles who recommend your channel. i'm still in the starting zone and trying differents ships, missions while i watching all important stuff on youtube
Great video! Glad you're bringing these abuses to light.
Why this will never be fixed...
The issue here is that Elite lets the client run the vast majority of the simulation of your ship. It uses peer-to-peer networking with central servers only adjudicating between autonomous clients.
This is highly scalable, inexpensive for Frontier to run, and requires the client to be trusted completely. Most MMOs have the baseline tenet that you can never ever trust the client.
Console games can more-or-less trust the client (I wonder if this has anything to do with the lack of Red Dead Redemption on the PC), and some eastern MMO imports from countries where your account is tied to your official ID (and thus bans actually matter) also trust the client - which leads to issues when they’re run in an environment where the client cannot be trusted.
I suspect there’s no easy way for Frontier to fix this. It would be a fundamental rewrite of the game to change it to a server-runs-everything model(and likely cost them a fortune in ongoing server expenses), and it’s nearly impossible to secure a client on an open platform like a PC.
Idiots like you are the problem. You know nothing about coding but don't keep your mouth shut.
@@hans-joachimbierwirth4727 not an argument. Your whole reply is a waste of the bandwidth used to send it and the harddisk space used to store it. All you've done is insult this man without elaborating on why any of his points are wrong. Goddamn.
@@xavierrodriguez2463 jesus, what a tremendous asshole. i wonder if he goes up to people IRL and says things like that to their face.
Excellent video! Love your format, overlay and your stance!
Thanks Grey, appreciate it. Hope all is well with you my friend.
As usual, direct and to the point and full of good information.
Thanks for bringing it to attention, I'm hoping this gains support.
Frontier? In-action? Narhh it'll be sorted in 2020... Good video & good to put the spotlight on it. Looking forward to encountering more cheaters & more nothing from FDEV.
2021 now
STILL hasnt been changed
@CMDR Exigeous a great video10/10
"I care!" 😊👍
I'm fairly new to the game compared to many other Commanders but I wanted to respond in part to your "Why Discuss?" section. The argument that informing Commanders of how they can cheat is facile. Commanders who wish to cheat can easily find this information from other sources. Commanders who do not wish to cheat likely haven't researched how to cheat. This discussion gives me the information I need to know what to look for and how I, as an individual, can best respond to it. I am somewhat disappointed in Frontiers lackluster response to cheaters but I'm moderately unsurprised. This video was possibly one of the most helpful I've seen from any E:D youtuber. Thank you.
@CMDR Exigeous Great videos and content!
I have no confidence in Fdev in terms of banning cheaters.... Fdev cant even bring a 'bug fix' to ED without introducing even more bugs, so there's little chance of anything good coming from them. Best we'll ever get is to make public the cheat app and we all use it. Its Game Over for PVP, BGS and the in game economy..... Looking forward to Elite Dangerous II in 2020.
And here I am, so proud of my Conda and it's 72 ly jump range. What a sad, sad day.
This makes you realize that most of the deep space first discoveries are just cheaters. They can jump to any system in the game in an instant, and do it as much as they want, then jump right back to a station to sell the data and get their name on discoveries. This is why you find discoveries by one person in the middle of nowhere with no trail leading up to it. It's because they just poofed into existence there. Basically nothing matters anymore in the game.
The Codex is little used? I only look at it several time per gamin section.
Great video!
TBH thi is the main reason I just don't play it anymore.
I don't play open at all, I'm more about exploring the galaxy...
however, the game is too grindy with too high of lost per gain. (singleplayer)
I do cheat on Singleplayer games, but never on multiplayer games.
and as long as the cheats affect Multiplayer balance, I just don't find ED gameplay "fun" for it's price tag.
I have stopped playing ED a year ago... still drop in to the content creators to check on status of the game.
@@NapFloridian i'm pretty much the same..
@@AdarColussi Ya, too much grind for even basic ships and modules... I just dont have the time to sit and play for hundreds of hours.
playerbase: Help! Our game is being spoiled by cheaters!
Fdev: ..... (sound of crickets)
Its Frontier, what did you expect?
That's exactly was has been happening.
Would it be they are working on it. Not saying they are, so when it suddenly drops mass bans happen and they didnt know it was coming? Or should we let em knowm hey the system to ban you is coming. "Oh? Ok let me deactivate all of my cheats now that i know they are coming so i dont get banned"
Cheats have been here from the beginning. You won't get banned in fact if you support fdev you support the cheating too.
If cheating is a issue in open. Play private or solo. Every game will always have a multiplayer cheater. Its part of what to exspect.
Being a new player with no intention to cheat but enjoy the experience of developing myself how is this situation almost a year on from this video?
in a word. WORSE
Agree with you 100%. FDev seems 'inconsistent
' with many issues except collecting revenue, lol. Seriously, not even sure a petition or write in campaign would make an impact, sadly.
Frontiers own fault for not giving the players the promised offline mode. That said, if these hackers are using said cheats to abuse other players in open, then they should be banned. #OfflineModeForAll ;)
You mean NO PVP at all would be great unless on combat zone
Before Xbox got private groups Solo or Open was the only way to go, and when I flew in Open I was always in a wing. So anytime someone would attack me during a cargo run, and my friend proceeded to pew them they would just dashboard. So pretty much every fight we got in our opponent combat logged. They should really start enforcing their policies before the use of hacks gets as bad as the combat logging.
Great Job Exigeous : I Love playing this game and have been hit by cheaters and it has made me leave for a while , I GET FRUSTRATED and just have to chill, last time i left for over a month, wonder how many upgrades or ship kits i would have bought during that down time at the frontier store.
So if I am fighting AI, in solo, and I close the game before my hull reaches zero, I can be banned?
Yes, 100% absolutely. That's called "combat logging" and is against the ToS. If you exit using the main menu (and wait the 15 seconds) then no, technically not. But if you kill the game using Task Manager, etc. then yes.
@@Exigeous Ok, thank you.
I honestly want to cheat and make some changes to my SRV if I can. I am so tired of constantly spinning out all the time when driving on a planetary surface.
But there is no way I am going to risk my account approaching 1000 hours...
Just a tip with the SRV, try driving it with drive assist off, makes it a lot easier to drive around without spinning out every 2 seconds, I only turn drive assist back on when I am scooping up minerals
@@TheRichardschris Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a shot.
I'd hope that being, you know, a _cheater_ would be enough to keep you from cheating. Driving the SRV is very easy, if you're spinning out you're going way too fast for the gravity of the planet. But sure, don't learn _how_ to play properly, just cheat if you can get away with it!
@@Exigeous "if you're spinning out you're going way too fast for the gravity of the planet."
100% the problem right there. Always having 3 pips to the engine, and going full speed ahead. I guess there is still some Need for Speed from my childhood still left in me.
@@hatsjer ahhh you just brought back some memories for me too. Underground is still worth playing today
One way I've thought about punishing combat logging: Instead of banning anyone who combat logs, why not just let ships be vulnerable for 10 minutes after a person disconnects (if they were attacked within the past few minutes ("in combat")). That way, if my opponent combat logs, I can still destroy their ship and claim their loot. It's effectively as if the pilot had gone unconscious.
I don't know about 10 minutes, but a 30-60 second delay on logging would certainly suffice. DayZ has been using this method for quite some time, and it works rather well.
10 minutes is a bit long. I'd hate to see people losing ships, money, and/or cargo after a perfectly acceptable log because people took advantage of the long log time
Perhaps the log time should be shortened, but to clarify, I think this should only be in effect if you logged whilst in the midst of combat so that your ship could get destroyed, the "punishment" you'd normally get anyways if you were losing a fight. Otherwise, your ship disappears instantly no harm no foul.
@@robertyang4365 There is a ten second timing for "being in danger" right now. That is not long enough to block combat logging, but short enough that you can use logging out to aboid being minced to pieces when stuch to a station (seen a youtube video about the later recently, do not remember where).
Thanks for bringing this issue to light! It's true that reporting players does not work... but hopefully, now that you and ryan_m17 are both leading the charge, some good will come from this.
EDTutorials by Exigeous has about as much pull as a mouse. and mice are easily crushed
Very good content Cmdr. Well constructed and inspirational. Everyone should ban together and say in one loud voice we will not tolerate this anymore.
They don't do anything because they are more concerned about generating revenue than people cheating. I bet if someone was hacking livery items it would be a different story. The truth is the cheating community is very small and proper action and bans would send a HUGE message to the community of honorable loyal players. I don't see cheaters spending money on DLCs so there is no real down side.
You hit the nail in the head there friend.
Well, as seen in Exigeous's video cheaters are quite prone to purchasing different paint packs and other microtransactions. It's not profitable for FDev to ban them right away since they are getting money from them.
Rogress if that is really the reason then FDev is clueless about long term profits, more people will leave the game than there are cheaters leaving a net loss of revenue. Also less and less people will buy the game because of cheating.
@@numnut1516 It's common today to not think about long term profits and reputation. Remember Fallout 76, Black Ops 4 and Battlefield 5, Battlefront 1 & 2 etc?
If enough Cmdrs voice their concerns, staying calm and presenting their findings professionally; Surely Frontier will be left with little choice and to respond in kind. Question is, what number is "enough Cmdrs"?
Lol... read up what happened when thousands of people complained about the most stupid censorship and filtering system ever in gaming history. Frontier is still suppressing the name "Federal Assault Ship" although that's a ship type nut allows shipnames that call for genocid pr praise Hitler. Have a look at the ship kits or the speed limit in space and realize the stupidity of David Braben and his minions.
CMDR Exigeous, thank you for your video series. I'll help you in your endeavor in thwarting cheaters, if "Trentalistically" possible. That being said, I am a Solo player who sucks at combat (yes, against AI's), has never liked in-flight combat in his twenty years of gaming, and am seriously considering discontinuing Elite even though I love most other aspects of it. So, is there a way to ethically disable combat OR gain a cheat for, say, Cannot Be Interdicted, or Infinite Shields? Respectfully, CMDR Trentor Z
Thanks Exigeous, for bringing this to light.
If you ask me, I'd say it is better to ban them from 'Open' mode instead of 'Solo'. At least it would prevent them from ganking or exploiting the open world and especially killing and irritating new pilots. But yeah then again I wish Frontier allowed an 'Offline' mode so that people who wanted some easy mode could use that and cheat themselves to whatever extent. 🤷♂️
You're not understanding - that's what they do. You cheat, they ban you so you can ONLY play in Solo. The problem is solo mode affects the BGS and markets so it still has an impact on the game. People use these cheats to boost their in-game factions so playing in solo isn't necessarily a bad thing to them at all.
@@Exigeous oh, got it now
@@Exigeous From what I've read - they used to ban completely (not just to solo), and there must be reason they decided to change it.
@@VelidBiH Most likely legality issues.
Oh wait... You mean I can just download an app to get back to the bubble from Colonia??? =D
I fully support you in this. Let's keep it clean and fair.
Thank you for spotlighting this! Another subset of cheating is botting, which can heavily affect BGS and PP groups. Human players can't compete against a cadre of bots that never fatigue
Yep, and I considered discussing botting as well but felt the video was already too long and it wasn't necessary as this all falls into "cheating".
Wait, there are bots for ED? I'm more tempted by bots rather than cheats, since I don't like grind. I would use it for material gathering, since I'm not interested in ruining someone's political agenda. I'm a merc anyways :)
Excellent Video!! you have my support!!! Cmdr Exigeous
cmdR Tuhua 07
looks like a guys in the vids were clean and the guys attacking were wanted... HMMM I WONDER WHY I SHOULD CARE!?!
This. SDC and player piracy has done nothing but chase players out of open. Now, unless you are in a capital , or location where people NEED to be fore engineering, guardians, ect its a total ghost town.
Okay, can I cheat JUST to land on planets? Cause I effing hate planetary landing. I'll fly all 113kly's but eff that last handful of minutes landing.
Can someone show me how to hack jump range? I want to max out jump range or get infinite jump range, if possible. Want to do this because I love Elite Dangerous but hate travel times in the game. Just want to explore.
Great video, well done. Sadly your comments to some here who ruffled your feathers has lost you a subscriber.
personaly, i regard case of rampant cheating not as a specific flaw in a program's security, but rather an intransic problem from the game itself. there is and always going to be cheaters and exploiters. it is just how it is. the problem is when that cheating and exploiting becomes rampant, because normal players ususaly don't cheat or exploit. but for elite we have been seeing, throughout its lifespan, that a majority, if not the large majority of active players have been resorting to game exploits and cheating has been growing steadily despite the risks involved.
this highlights a problem: why would so many normal players seek to buypass and avoid the frontier designed progression system? this is the result of bad game design that has stayed in the game since the beta that is never adressed properly. when players feel cheated of their playtime, they tend to cheat back, and this is what has been happening throughout the game's history. now that exploits are becoming less common, people turn to the second best option, that being cheating, because the alternative is spending hundreds of hours on "interesting and rewarding" gameplay. and trust me, i had enough of the frontier experience to last 3 lifetimes
Nonsense. The majority of players do not cheat, and no it isn’t the fault of bad design. It’s the fault of bad players who want things easy mode.
Actually no, it's a mix of both. It's bad technical design along with people who want easy mode or to fuck with players, there isn't a single "bad" source here or single fix.
@@Exigeous I don't claim the game is flawless, just that any flaws are not actually the real cause of cheating. People who want to get where they're going instantly aren't cheating to avoid a bad game feature, they're just impatient and can't play a game without constant rushing through it.
@@Exigeous well I can't really argue when it comes to people that use cheats in MP. I mean, I have played with people who had cheated their way around solo (told me it was very easy to do) but they never though that going in MP with it was a good idea. After all they where cheating so they could have enough resources to be able to simply have fun in MP instead of running the dread of losing everything to a ganker. There was very recently a jump on how many players where using cheats online, and I can only guess that it's because of the previous update fucking things up.
Getting rid of online cheaters is a necessity, but I feel that if the underlying issue isn't dealt with, they will just find another way and come back, not even speaking of exploits which are the lifeblood of population jump for this game
@@florbfnarb7099 wrong. The majority of players don't cheat, but the majority exploits, or take advantage of bugs in the generation and holes in gameplay systems. Remember, exploiting is just cheating legally, as the main appeal for both is the same : get to the stuff you want faster. Of course, cheats also allow to ruin someone's experience but so is exploits like suicide station ram.
What do you think of using combat logging against gankers?
Great video! Thanks!
They should allow you to play truly offline. I don't care to ever play in open tbh. I dont want to ruin someone elses hard work, but it would be kinda cool to just mess around in an overly engineered eagle or something.
Okay I wouldn't care if you do it in some single player, but hell not in multiplayer for pete sick
Even then, for those of us working with player factions, a solo mode cheater with infinite jump range and cargo space can totally screw us in the BGS.
@@jons787 or powerplay
@@jons787 i do believe he was talking about single player offline games in general, not about elite dangerous solo play.
No fuel consumption and auto scanning everything makes exploration and putting name on everything even easier. There should be permanent bans for every mode, not forcing to solo mode.
Is it cheating when using macros (logitech hardware)? macros are usefull when you need to quit to main menu and get back to solo mode instantly e.g. jameson crash side. I did a scan macro for the 4 data points.
EXCELLENT VIDEO, Cmdr o7
Looking forward to your Follow-Up, when next there's any critical info, e.g. major move or statement by Frontier Dev.
IS there any "movement" amongst the Player Base to APPEAL TO or PETITION FDev for greater action, sooner?
Do you think there's any chance of "retro-active" fixes or "repairs" to cheating? e.g. where a Player Faction has been cheated out of existence, or .. where long distant exploration "discoveries" were cheat-gained..
I imagine it would take more work to discover / prove than they'd be likely to have any manpower for, or time to spare to execute, but daaamn, that'd be good if they did / could...
Perhaps the BIG REVEAL for 2020 could be a FULL RESET, with a newer, updated system/engine with major anti-cheat and anti-bot, opt-in PvP, BETTER Pirating (in-game RP-role) support (I don't RP-Pirate, but I can RESPECT "honorable" Piracy, thank YOU sir..), reinstating lost PFs, re-"advantage"-ing all Backers with a current, on-going gaming account, and perhaps permitting all existing players (minus cheaters!) to "come through the Big Reset" with a commensurate quantity of credits allowing them to re-establish their hangar complement in short order.
We can Dream, can't we..? ;)
Just so everyone is aware, (great video btw) I admit using Elite Not So Dangerous numerous times and I will continue to use it as i have NEVER and will never use any of the open play features of this game. I bought it for solo play only and Frontier has now imposed a permanent ban on me using any open feature for only a second detection so yes, they are getting better with policy enforcement which I agree is fair for those who use open features. I'm sure there will be angry people comment on this and I really couldn't care less, as stated I use solo mode only and as a programmer myself I should have the right to use a piece of software that I have paid for how I see fit so long as it does not affect other players and in this case it doesn't. Well done to Frontier for enforcing policies to make the game experience better for open players but I can tell you the only way to ever truly stamp out people who actually want to have fun by using cheats is to sell a solo only version of the game. Do that and i'll be the first to buy it.
And cheers to you for your honesty and humility. It's a shame I'll never see you in-game, but I wish there more CMDRs like you. o7
id really love to cheat on like a singleplayer version of elite dangerous. If i'd ever cheat i would probably only do it on solo. I have my pride too.
Cheating in Sologames is absolutely ok for me, but one question: you don't do BGS or something while cheating, right?
@@xdtechniker2554 i dont do BGS. i would cheat to make the game fun without grinding so much. not to have advantages or ruin other peoples gameplay.
@@xdtechniker2554 I'm playing ED since it's launch, and never bothered with BGS grind. There are two things that might justify grind for me Prismatic Shields and Pack Hounds(cause they are funny) but I never got the patience to grind for them. Cheats are not going to add much in this since there is not a lot of gain from BGS anyway. But there should be no cheaters in online games that's for sure.
Months later this is still everywhere
I don’t play open and I don’t cheat but I agree with your stance on this issue. Thanks for having the courage to talk about it.
You're most welcome, thanks for understanding that regardless of how you play cheating affects us all negatively. I make no judgments on how someone plays a video game, so long as they aren't cheating.
The main reason is why FDEV dont do anything about cheating is that the game doesn't have enough depth in order for cheaters to make any difference.
BGS manipulation, 99% there is one PF in the system vs 6 NPC factions, noone really cares if your PF will have an advantage, you dont really compete against other players. Even if you did, this is not EVE, you dont control resources or can manipulate other players by extortion just because you control some RNG system/faction.
PVP cheating, PVP in itself is a half assed sideshow that the devs invested 0 resources into it, this is their last priority as far as game features are concerned, 1 v 1 or wing fights mean absolutely fuck all in relation to the whole game, in addition it just a very small minority of players who even get involved in PVP.
In conclusion, before any cheating is resolved, the game needs content to cheat because atm you gain nothing, and thats why the devs dont care, at the end of the day its just a space truck simulator for taking cool screenshots.
Just make the solo play universe read only, problem solved.
Yes but if someone wants to unistall it... then theyll have issues, because they wont be able to.
@@nightrous3026 can you...explain why that's an issue?
Dr Foxxy if the game is read only that means the game files can’t be manipulated period which means that can’t be deleted ever if you want to uninstall the game. ROM is really only used for the system bios or things in a computer that are never supposed to change.
Here here old man. Couldn't agree more. Keep up the good work. O7
How bad is cheating in this game overall? I'm a rather new player who plays on Ps4 in strictly solo mode only so I'm totally disconnected from what happens on PC with other players and cheating.
In reality it's very rare you'd actually encounter someone hacking and attacking you - the bigger issue is the guys using this to hack the BGS and credit/material farming. You're "safe" for the most part if you're on PS4
actually a fsd range cheat would be the only way a player can see places like cat eye nebula in elite
If the only ones affected by it are the Pirates (AKA players that like to destroy other players for the lulz) I am fine with it.
You talking about griefers, pirating is stoling goods. And (supraise) you get a lot of more stuff from living target.
@@fistsofsnake5475 not if you blow them up, which tends to be what pirates do. you get more money doing it the legal way.
Excellent observations and suggestions, commander Exigeous. I certainly hope that Frontier takes heed. On several occasions I've had fully engineered ships like Krait Mark IIs destroyed in unprovoked attacks by a single hit by "something". 'Took about ten seconds, including the interdiction. The interdictor used did not respond at all to the fact that I remained perfectly aligned to the escape vector. The interdictions and attacks were so quick I never even got a chance to see the attacker. There was not even any cargo involved.
Whoever thinks that's fun is truly sick. That's just just murder. That really takes away from this otherwise awesome game that I loved since 1984. Only Frontier can do something about such flies in the ointment. I sincerely hope they do. There will be a thousand happy players for every one that's banned for cheating.
Thank you for raising the concern about cheating. Cheaters are the reason why I rarely play in open anymore, but with that I'm losing a lot of the experience of a "multiplayer" game. Frontier has to take the problem seriously, it would be sad to see this game just sink into oblivion, but surely I will stop playing if Frontier doesn't look for ways to enforce the right behavior from players.
I care very little about combat loggers, since you gain very little by killimg players and if your oponent logs you have technicality won.
But hacks are another thing altogether, that shit's real damaging.
It's a shame your ethics are so subjective and weak - cheating is cheating, period. Frontier creates the rules, not you or I, and we all have to adhere to them. I could easily say the same about increasing my FSD range as that wouldn't directly affect you - but CHEATING IS CHEATING, period. Also very short sighted to not understand WHY combat logging is an issue, I mean seriously, if you can handle seeing your digital space ship blow up why are you in open playing or playing a video game?
@@Exigeous
Exigeous. Friend. Buddy. Bucko.
Relax. Breathe. Its a game. The one taking this way too seriously is you.
All the best wishes from a old subscriber.
Oh I'm very relaxed, it takes far more than someone who condones cheating to actually upset me. I've had this same conversation about combat logging with people that don't understand and are utter hypocrites about it for years now. With players that don't understand the actual issues it creates. So forgive me if I lashed out a little hard but I'm just sick to death of people apologizing for one type of cheating then condemning another.
So yeah, hopefully you'll realize the absurdity of the statement _"But hacks are another thing altogether, that shit's real damaging."_ as BOTH are damaging for the game, period.
@@Exigeous Frontier has NEVER come out and said that combat logging is "cheating". I've heard that it's forbidden by the TOS (it's not, although ganking is). I've also seen a forum post that implies clogging might be an exploit (so is board flipping and no one had a problem with that), but that forum post has since been removed.
Equating clogging with using hacks will cause you to lose any anti-cheating crusade you embark on.
There's also the sticky situation where 3rd party hacks, such as ED Market Connector, can be considered cheating too. Especially the one that Cannon uses to track their flights and monitor data traffic in order to more easily find objects in game. (I don't know the exact name of such tools as I'm not a cheater).
@@Exigeous
All is fine. I understand your points, and i can apreciate when someone is really passionate about a game in particular.
Still, i see combat logging as the lesser of two evils, and if any doubth remain i never made use the pratice (i actually learned from your channel the tactic of hi-waking out of a tight spot, that is both useful for human attackers and Goids).
C-logging will remain to be a problem untill the base structure of the multiplayer code is rewriten, but i belive that Hard hacks can be dealt with now, as they do deliver a serious blow to the Background sinulation and powerplay.
Apart from banning the game character names of the cheaters should be made public.
I'd be happy if frontier let us have a save file with trophies blocked, solo mode only with $0 rebuy and MAYBE 1.5x payouts. That would satisfy my "cheating needs".
Thanks for the info! I believe Frontier should do more to punish hackers/cheaters. If nothing else to set the example on what will happen if a player is caught. The standards and expectations are clearly defined but are just ignored by players that cheat and by Frontier. The only options available to players that do follow the rules are to play in solo mode, fly in a wing or move on to another game. With the bottom line being taking your cash elsewhere. ✌🤯
"Unfair that one player or group have an advantage over others"
Yeah, FFS create differents BGS servers for the Solo/PG and Open, this is ruining the multiplayer experience
It's crazy that I can influence community goal stations in solo just as effectively as in open, just with almost zero risk. That's madness.
I can't bring myself to care about cheating in a game I only play single player. But that's just another problem with Elite in general. FDEV will forever have their game be compromised by having to awkwardly straddle the line between being a solo game and MMO.
So many things in this game I hate because it's obviously designed for an MMO, and I have no doubt the opposite is true for those who want to play it as one. There's no way to make both audiences happy and it's undoubtedly the games biggest and most fundamental flaw.
You don't really make any sort of convincing reason for why solo players should care about this. BGS and changing markets? They're not something a solo player can reasonably influence at all and might as well not be there. That it gives other players advantages over others? Again, doesn't affect solo players in the slightest.
I understand why people are frustrated at cheating in their multiplayer game. But there's no reason for solo players to give a damn and if anything it's a source of frustration that developer time will have to be spent on this at all, instead of things that would actually enrich the game.
A type 9. Massive cargo space. Impossible jump range. Infinite dropout range, and you dont even have to align.
Log in. Use EDDB to find the maximum credit route to a station you want to disrupt BGS with. Instantly jump to the start of the loop. The second you jump to the system at the start of the loop, tap J and instantly arrive at the station, even though its 12,000LS from entry. Dock and buy cargo. Undock. Target the system you're gonna use to jerk around with the BGS. Even though its 210ly away, and you're in a T9, you jump straight there. The millisecond you arrive, tap J and you're at the destination station. Sell. Profit tens of millions of credits, and affect the BGS.
What should take 20 minutes just took 2. Rise and repeat.
War? Load up those infinite shields with 2500m/s speed thrusters with some rail guns that destroy 'vettes in seconds. Clear a combat zone in a couple minutes. Move to the next one and remember you dont even have to align, just tap J a couple times.
One person could do in an hour what 20 people could do in 5 hours. One person could massively influence the BGS or powerplay.
I'm a solo player and these hacks affect all of us. Maybe the video didnt do a good job on why that's bad for even solo players but, it's a massive problem for the entire game. Even if only a handful of people have these cheats, they could completely disrupt the entire simulation whenever they wanted, and the more real-life time they have to do it, the more they wreck everything.
@@alianant I've yet to see any reason why the BGS even needs to be in the game or what it offers players. It might as well just be procedurally flipping to different states at regular time intervals.
But that's a criticism you could level at various aspects of the game.
@@Primate541 I can appreciate that sentiment. However, there are some folks that really enjoy that part of the game and even if Frontier were to ban all cheaters according to their policy, cheaters would still ruin aspects of the game.
It's craziness.
I’ve only been playing a couple of weeks, tried various aspects of the game, trading, passengers/sightseeing, guardians etc. Your vids are a great help. There’s a great game in here somewhere but it’s clear that Elite is in maintenance mode and Fdev don’t give a shit.
you joined during a bad time stability wise. it usually is not that bug/problem ridden. and i can assure you fdev still gives a shit. they just maybe need a little bit more staff for the proper maintance.
@Vlodec ok debbie downer. If that's your perception.
To be honest i don't think Frontier have the knowledge to actually stop this from happening with the games current P2P structure, would they not have to put some kind of telemetry system into the executable to detect interference.. I.E some form of spyware like program or Anticheat like Vac/Punkbuster etc?
Adding VAC to a game can only benefit it.
Cheaters in games are cheaters in real life.
They spoil the fun out of everything.
In both cases I propose:
Ban 'em all !
Ban them from real life? sounds about right.
Harry Potter anybody :?
I wonder if all the members of "Dumb" cheat?
Fck that guy. But he's not a cheater. He may be an a55hole that kills a new player in an stock python (me when i just started playing) while himself sits comfortably in a fully maxed plasma/multicannon cutter and just peppers said player with death and destruction, but i'm pretty sure that's how it goes with engineered vs non-engineered ships are tested against one another. So i'm pretty sure he's not a cheater.
That's how i got introduced to pvp in elite btw. Barely had time to tell him that he's an an a55hole and then i died. Been avoiding pvp ever since.
Great video with clear and concise points. I hope Frontier address this soon.
Dude. Now I know what to watch for. Thanks. And I need to learn how to fly in combat like you do lol
Perma-ban all cheaters that are detected with hardware bans. That way, if a cheater wants to come back into the game, changing IP address, or MAC address will not work. If a cheater wants to come back, they'll have to buy a new graphics card and motherboard.
Not realy, Hardware ID bans (HWID) collect info like serial number of the hardware through the OS. Spoofing these serials on OS level is nearly trivial. Simply search for "HWID spoofer" and you get a meryad of programs that do this. It might stop a 12 year old script kiddy, barely, but anyone doing rudementary research into how to avoid HWID bans can get around them.
@@mpeppelman Still, it's little to no effort on FDEV's part and would decrease the cheating by a measurable amount.
@@corytucker1239 Not really, in order to place a HWID ban, cheating needs to be detected first. Just enforcing the current systems of account based bans would do much, much more. Anyone willing to repurchase the game on a new account just to continue playing/cheating would have enough motivaiton to do HWID spoofing, and as indicated in the last post, IT skill requirements are very basic.
And don't underestimate the effort required on FDEV's part, they need to set up a system that hashes all hardware info into a format they can work with, ensude there is no hash collision in that process to prevent bans affecting the wrong people who just have the same hash, and a database to store, manage and enforce the HWID bans.
All this also needs to be done securely, imagine what would happen if those HWID hashes would accidentaly be sent unencrypted to other players you are instanced with. In no time some guy would create a tool that lets you spoof your own HWID to that of someone you meet, getting them banned.
@@mpeppelman good point, I'm not saying that fdev would solve everything with this, but they should probably try to use everything they have at their disposal to reduce the cheating.
However, very valid point of changing your own HWID to ban other people...
@@corytucker1239 The only thing FDev has at their disposal is an unlimited amount of incompetence. A competent developer would have solved that problem within one month.
Dude, you are creating quite an arc, first talking about cheaters and how they ought to be punished and then claiming combat logging was as severe as cheating via hacking.
That's like a 16 year old school bully complaining the 6 year olds tend to run away when he tries to kick them in the balls.
i dont necessarily agree with that analogy but i sure lost my shit reading it! goddamn that was gold
@@ShitKid1337 accurate analogy here would be 6 year old taking away the sports equipment and running home when losing the game.
combat logging IS as severe as cheating via hacking. technically combat logging IS hacking.
Hacking: using a feature NOT intended to be used that way
Combat Logging: using a feature "shutting off network" to save your ass. I'm sure this isn't the way Frontier intended. that's why they openly say combat logging is not OK.
So where do you get these cheats?? Just so i know where not to go! Also do they cost any money??
Right? Please tell me.
I really appreciated this video. Ive been scared to play in open because of this, as my first time I did I was confronted by someone with unlimited shields and was taunted as they systematically picked my sidewinder to pieces. I play in a private group now instead. But I agree 100%. I will be writing a letter now thanks yo this video.
Sidewinder is not the most powerful combat ship out there. Are you sure that was a cheater and not a fully 5grade engineered pvp asshole?