Let me add a further level of disgust to T1’s game 5 draft. I think that Nautilus ban suggests that Yuumi was pre-planned as one of the core components of their team comp.
As a football fan, I completely agree that both the WC and the UCL are dogshit formats. But one problem with trying to "make it better" - whether it's double elimination or Best of Series - is the unreasonable amount of games it would require. Footballers at the current state are already very overplayed. Yeah, they earn a lot of money and no one has sympathy for them but money doesn't change the fact that top players are already playing around 60 matches a season - covering 12-14km per match with sprints, tackles, headers etc. It's too much. Players have muscular injuries all the time and other semi long term injuries every other year. They literally can't play more. They are already playing too much. Once the club season is over, they have to play for their nations. Whether its WC qualifiers, random "friendly matches"/nations league etc. They have like 3-4 weeks of break a year. To make the UCL better - and thus use a format that has more games - would require something drastic like ending the domestic cups in favour of a bigger European Cup. But you can't do that. For tradition's sake, as well as how much the domestic cups mean for smaller sides that could never qualify for the UCL etc. At the end of the day, if you're a football fan, you just know: cups are up for grabs. Football is a game with many players, many variables, high variance - while also being a low scoring game. It's the most upset-likely sport. So in Cups, where single games and moments count "anyone can win it", kinda. There have been cases of teams winning a domestic cup while getting relegated in the league in the same season - because they were actually really bad. They just somehow managed to win a cup/tournament. Cups having a "bad" format isn't as much of a problem as long as you're reasonable enough to understand that winning a cup is not a good indicator for the strength of the team overall. They are entertaining competitions to watch. Well, the media and stupid people will obviously always spin it in a way where the winner of a cup "were the best" and "amazing" and all that and glorify it and milk it as much as they can but we don't care what plebs say here, do we.
Football is complete different compare to esport. Footballer in Europe especially in EPL already overwhelm and suffer overuse injury by lots of game due to UCL expand 32 to 36 next year, and lots of useless exhibition game from FIFA day
Honestly the formats aren't that bad considering the amount of good teams there are. Upsets are almost always happening because almost any team in the last 16 is potentially good enough to actually win it all. The reason leagues format is so shit is because the gap between teams is so high and they play bo5s in quarters which also makes much more sense when an average game takes 30 min compared to 90 min a match so the worse team can never win the tournament while in football dark horse winners are a bigger possibility. To be honest every time Monte mentions soccer/football it's more apperant he doesn't understand it...
@@HopefulNihilist yeah. _nothing_ wrong with it. nothing at all. it's the end all be all of formats and it makes absolutely no sense that any other formats even exist
Thorin’s rant about corporations co-opting your integrity and your creativity is fucking true. Their only goals are to make money so when they find someone who can create value while making money, they’ll want to take advantage of them and bend them towards just making money until it runs dry
While they'll always want to, you have the exact same power over them, and don't ever forget it. The reason it works is it's mutually beneficial. If you create value, they'll pay you what you're worth to them.
@@grandarchon6969 "If you create value, they'll pay you what you're worth to them. " No, they'll pay you the minimum they can get away with. You know how much Nike paid for their logo? $35. You think that logo was only worth $35 to them?
T1 draft was mental boom in game 5. I thought they would go Thresh, Lee Sin with Jinx. It was the perfect game for that. Plus I thought Gwen Ban would be a given.
In fact, a lot of pros (including Korean ones like CT, pony) think T1’s BP was not bad, especially given their limited champion pool and the on-site performance of their players. Moreover, jhin+yuumi is considered good into tris+rakan and always has the lane priority. Imagine if T1’s bot and mid hadn’t died before lvl 6, jhin+yuumi could have roamed to herald earlier than their opponents thanks to the lane priority, taken the herald, fed Jayce, snowballed their gold lead and turbo won the game.
I know it’s a high risk low error tolerance draft, but still winnable. Interesting how people think they have a better understanding of BP than T1’s coaching team. And how people ignore the mid/bot gap in the game5 but blame it all on BP instead is a real mental boom
@@yiquanbeat7703 the BP was ok at best. But still the Only champ Bin was actually dominating was with Gwen. Plus Ahri and Jayce are poke champs with 0 synergy with a wukong. Yuumi provides 0 protection in all in team fights apart from her one sided ult. T1 gave RNG comfort picks while they moved away from comps that got them to that point. If Faker was gonna pick Ahri then Lissandra should've been prio banned along with Gwen. Risk a kaisa first pick from Gala to give botlane draft advantage.
G2 could of thought that the only way they're beating T1 is through the botlane since gumayusi was having an off tournament and t1's topside was disgusting
Monte: I'm fking free Man this episode is hilarious.. The way Monte says it is so funny 🤣 things about Riot could be much worse than your imagination, things that aren't public yet about Riot/hidden under nda
T1 was not as good as people think lol. Just because they could stomp lck doesn’t mean sht. RNG loss was not a stomp whereas T1 loss was an absolute massacre
I wonder what it's gonna take to flip the narrative? Korea was dominant in international competition for years, but China's dominated for the past 5-6 years. I believe the record is something like 8-2 or 9-1. Yet every MSI and Worlds the narrative going in is "Korea vs the field", and coming out is "why did this player-for-player superior Korean team throw? " I mean it's been like 5+ years, starting to feel a bit racist.
Thorin himself has had to admit on one of his older videos that there has always been an unfair perception of the LPL. He didn't go as far as racism, because although he fails at times, he does try to keep politics out as much as he can. Basically, before the LPL actually won finals, people kept shitting on them. Thorin finds it disgusting especially as people constantly predicted EU LCS (old name of LEC) victories against LPL teams, or rated EU LCS as a better region than the LPL. This is in spite of the LPL having been the only region to have defeated OGN (old name of LCK) in a best of five since the adoption of the league format in 2013. And the mental gymnastics people went through to explain away consistent 2nd place finishes by LPL teams at international tournaments. And this is slightly beyond the current scope, but Korea has always had a huge leeway when it comes to getting away with bullshittery. How many people know that Korea is the only region that has cheated at Worlds? And if it had been anybody other than Korea, they would have been punished far harder than just two fines totalling
LPL are always painted as the villains too, inside riot hype trailers as well it feels like. Especially when T1 is involved they make them look like the “heroes who are looking to re establish dominance” while RNG are some computer hackers with an underlying evil voiceover. It’s so weird considering LPL has been 10x better than the LCK in recent years with Damwon 2020 being the only exception
I think you guys were way more harsh on EG than G2 especially considering EG actually showed more fight in the playoffs. Was a pretty pathetic performance from G2.
I'm a T1 fan and I'm sad at the loss vs RNG, but I do think they needed to be humbled. The way they played out this series was just so weird. I sincerely hope they learn from this experience and come back stronger at Worlds. Edit: I had tempered expectations on T1. I hate the overhype and I agree that they are indeed a very good team but they are also a very untested team. I'm happy with their perfect split but even I know that their path was far too easy. I'm happy they got to the Finals, but I never thought them winning MSI was a foregone conclusion. The only true disappointment I had was their drafting, especially in Game 5.
The TSM drama segment was so good that I don't even give a fuck about the MSI stuff, I just skipped to the questions for more Monte and Thorin personality
I think Polts point was that they didn't prepare red side successfully and he believes that if they had 3 x on blue side they would have won. Based on how the series went that's not incomprehensible. In saying that, T1's game 5 draft could have been much better, but it feels like their mental lost them the game, not the draft.
If you want a good format, check out the HCS (Halo Championship Series) tournaments. Sucks it’s all crammed into three days, but the way they setup groups, play ins/open bracket, and the double elim winners/losers brackets is fantastic.
Agreed it’s a solid format. I would argue duration is a factor to consider when you’re judging formats though. Both total duration but also time between matches, and the duration is abysmal in all ways there.
Lol used to use tournament format only, its was much more exciting, and the teams like Moscow 5 that played better as u could surprise people with strats more because it wasn't being played weekly
1:14:20 to the reason why T1 dosnt pick trist in g1 against galio, because they already picked jayce and noct picking trist mid would mean guma have to play ziggs karthus an ap bot which they didnt want to do
The TSM investigation wording is particularly interesting. They say he didn't do anything illegal... Noone accused him of doing anything illegal, they accused him of being a bully and a jackass, well the investigation basically found that 30% of the people they talked too thought that he was... So everything he is being accused of is true but they are hiding behind the "He didn't do anything illegal." Language.
@@ajmDRUM if they found he did nothing wrong at all they would be shooting it from the rooftops. This is Regi we are talking about, the least subtle person on the planet. So considering they just released the statement and are trying to move on means that the accusations are true.
T1 has had horrendous drafts the entire season, which has cost them numerous games. Although it just so happens that their team/individual skill is so ridicoulously high that it covered this major weakness. When they run into a team of equal or better skill it becomes a hard task, such as RNG.
Exactly, I would go on to add that if T1 is actually allowed to win international titles and get away with all these horrendous drafts, then perhaps the overall competitiveness of pro league players has dropped.
@@officaldjflo No they can't. You're thinking of largest shareholder, or plurality shareholder. A majority shareholder, a person who owns 51% or higher of all shares, outvotes everybody else.
Critical Role might do well in terms of providing a very polished, driven product - but it's definitely possible to have games that go into another direction, providing a less serious setting in the way of some friends sitting at a table and shooting the shit.
Monte might be right about engineers being taught "only doing math", but mathematics itself is a very artistic and creative activity where the rules of the game are formal logic. It involves lots and lots of writing, especially when it comes to proofs. You fundamentally practice all the skills that's involved in writing from a liberal arts education. Greek letters are just a way of condensing a lot of that writing. If you go back to the olden days of algebra, people were doing math over long form essays instead. Modern notation for algebra wasn't invented until 14th century. One can even argue that mathematics is a much strong form of practicing logic as 1. you're utilizing formal logic 2. proofs have to be airtight while there's always weasel room in an argument in the liberal arts
As someone with a math degree and a drawing hobby: I agree that math is creative and a great logic practice, but disagree that it's artistic (unless you do a very specific kind of math). Learning math is often "your teacher / the course book / your boss tells you to get to Y, find a way to get there, which may require creativity." Meanwhile, learning to draw means regularly asking yourself the question "what do I want to draw? And now? And now?" And also "I can use technique X or Y, and neither is objectively correct, which do I think is more pleasing?" So with math you don't really practice "what do I want to express" or "what do I find beautiful" or "what emotion do I want this piece to have" or even "is what I'm being told, actually true?" (because with math problems you just blindly assume that it is).
The Wold Cup happens every 4 years... When it happens you stop to watch it because the next one is a loooong way away. And has the National factor of course.
I actually disagree that the CL is on average a better viewing experience than the World Cup. It’s better quality in the sense that the teams are better, but at a certain level of football, the game becomes tremendously slow, because scoring goes down the better teams. So conceding a goal becomes worse, the better the teams are. Even worse when 2 teams are evenly matched. The World Cup on average has less defensive coordination which means individuals making insane plays have more room to shine. It’s especially noticeable when you have situations like with Germany, where most of (especially offensive German players) play at the same club, so you get more of the offensive coordination of clubs vs defense chaos of national teams. Also, Rectal Pulverizer
@@LAK253 so is he a pleb for not wanting to get scammed by TH-cam to play audio with a locked phone screen, or are you just spewing meaningless phrases like an npc?
The fifa world cup's hype is due to nationality + the fact that it's once every 4 years If it were a yearly event it wouldn't have had that big of a hype
Okay now the thing that is making me really curious and that I'd like to know you guys opinion on, is draft a problem in Korea? So you talked about the draft problems for T1, but here is what made me confused. You brought up the statistics about Zeus and Gumayushi and how they have most of their games on like 4 champions. Why the fuck aren't LCK teams banning these champions and trying to exploit their champ pool? Put them on something uncomfortable? Is LCK as a region questionable in draft?
The teams in Korea that'll get creative in draft and are decent at it have mechanically weaker players and much poorer macro. T1's drafts in Spring season were also incredibly hit or miss, but because their players were straight up better, they would win using these "win lane, win game" comps. It was also impossible for any teams to exploit their champ pools for the reason Monte pointed out in the video: there were enough available champions they could rotate out to make their one comfort comp work every game, even if someone tried to target ban. Consider burning 3-4 bans on Gumayusi and then taking an ADC to slim the pool. At that point, it isn't going to matter if Gumayusi is put into the ground because you're giving away power/comfort picks to everyone else. Not only that, but because of how much LCK teams are willing to handshake, Gumayusi is still coming back into the game due to T1 out-rotating the other team. No other team in LCK in Spring was well-rounded enough (player-wise, macro-wise, etc) to match them, and it's only against teams that can match in all aspects that their terrible drafts get punished.
I hate the take, 100 million players. 2.1 million viewers. League has a strong player base, but everyone has multiple accounts. Active users - always switching accounts , of course they are active
I think you guys disrespect Doran too much. There’s a reason why he’s a player that’s been on top teams repeatedly and if you watched LCK in 2021 you’d know why Gen.G got him. Plus he had a very good start this year, the problem is that he choked at the end which is effecting recency bias.
OK. Lets see if they don't ban nat Instead they ban gwen. rng Will first pick nat. Then what. Faker hasn't play galio for a long time or T1 Doesn't know how to play around galio. Besides guma is so bad at kaisa. If T1 leaves galio open. For sure rng Will pick galio and kaisa at r2 and r3. We All know how op is when rng has this team comp. At least till the end of MSI. T1 hadn't showed they know how to deal with this op dive comp.
Then don't pick Jhin Yuumi. Caitlyn Morg was still up, and it was all right the last time they did it. Just get in Gumayusi's face and threaten a nine clan punishment if he dies before minute one again. You've let Bin screw you over twice with Gwen already, so why are you doing the same stupid shit a third time? Xiaohu had a single good Galio game and you permaban it; what is it about Gwen that makes it so hard to ban?
Drakos' takes are really poor and having so many other, kinda more elevated, analysts available make it seem just wrong to have him on professing nonsense
that argument about the world cup sucking cause is low quality and it's format being horrible is because they have no passion for football. I see the world cup cause ITS THE FUCKING WORLD CUP AND ITS ONLY EVERY 4 YEARS AND IT HAS HUNDRED YEARS OF HISTORY. I don't care about the format or the quality of games, I watch it cause every team there, even if they suck, they went through a long process to qualify and it means they are one of the best in their region
Yea, for years he has hinted at it or sometimes even leaked that he has had multiple ex-FNC members and other pro players come to him and tell him secrets or the current drama. This isn’t only for Rekkles though, Thorin and Dom and other content creators ALWAYS know what’s happening behind the scenes cuz they’re on a bunch of discord servers together with the pros themselves.
02:03:44 Man, I would love to give plep-LoL a try. I stopped playing league long ago but would love to just go full caveman and throw down with sticks and stones with dumbed down champs like in the old days. Somewhere mid 2012 would be a cool cut-off point for me.
Would be a real shame if one day it turns out these games were fixed in one way or another. Makes zero sense for T1 to draft and play like this again...
if u watch any LCK, it totally does. Koreans don't care about drafts. they're all about macro and mechanics. drafting has always been a cooinflip to LCK
Bro virtually everything in life at the highest level is fixed...name a field or sport. There is fixing. The incentives are way too high and the odds against getting caught or outed are massive, because the industries have a major incentive not to publicize lack of integrity.Very rarely, periodically, they'll do a limited hangout of low-hanging fruit so people who "want to believe" have something to point to. Cheating is SYSTEMIC in CS:GO and there are many channels that prove it, but people just don't want it to be true. It sucks. I believe chess is probably full if cheaters as well, because how could it not be? With how small processors are, you could have access to an invisible level 12 Stockfish in your shoe or something with no problems at all.
The investigation said that when he called his players "retards" he was referring to the "work product" and not the employee. Isn't that worse? I mean, your entire raison d'être at that point is your play. A superior that can't stomach you but has respect for your craft is miles better in my opinion.
This is off topic from E-Sports but I had to respond to Monte's comment on the value of Liberal Arts degrees. The things that you spoke of as being the pros of a Liberal Arts degree are literally skills that you should be obtaining from your general education classes at any decent university. As you somewhat mentioned, they don't really provide many skills that are useful to companies (at least nowhere near degrees in STEM, certain business/accounting degrees, etc). While I agree that people should get a well rounded education at University there is no reason for someone to spend 4 years and go into debt studying something with no marketable skills besides being able to communicate at a business professional level when those skills should be part of any university level education. Realistically the only "value" of a pure Liberal Arts education is to either to have an easier path to good grades to attend Law School or with the intention of pursuing a graduate/PhD in order to teach. However, both of those pathways can only accommodate so many people and you end up with a very large number of people who went to university because they were told they "had to" in order to be successful but leave with a mountain of debt and their only "skill" being essay writing.
At like 2 hours in, what kind of weird strawmanning is Thooorin on. If anything the "woke crowd" would argue that everyone's mind would be different, not the same.
Every company investigates itself, mates. Riot investigated themselves and didn't find anything wrong during that harassment case, and then a legal institution found them guilty and made them pay 100m. Also, being an asshole isn't illegal, moving on.
Didn’t Biofrost come out as gay and talk about the hardships he faced because of it? Not far reach to think that Reginald contributed towards how he felt
Engineering definitely teachers you to think far more than liberal arts. What an ignorant and arrogant take. Engineers actually have the highest turnover of any university degree for expanding into business owners, doctors, lawyers, etc...
Apparently it didn’t teach you think about the fact that turnover rate exists because you can specialise as an type of engineer in literally every field. What % of Aerospace Engineers do you think become medical doctors? How about the turnover rate of Computer System Engineers into Copyright Lawyers.
Inb4 "rabid skt fan" haven't watched a game of lck in years and couldn't care less about china vs korea or faker who's favorite drink is water lol. Im curious if riot has ever made statements about rngs set up? Did they still have audio the whole time? Did they delay the stream by 5 minutes so there was no possibility to cheat? I dont think rng needed to cheat(especially with skts drafts/decision making), and im not good enough to recognize if wei changed pathing at certain points based on potentially fed information or anything like that. Just wish there was more Info out there. I think I've heard rng had 1 cam, no headsets, and no ref.(not blaming rng for the shitty CCP policies they have no control over) Did riot make any statements about this that I just never saw?
I hate when players and teams use side selection or draft as an excuse to why they lose a game, it's such a fucking weak excuse. Maybe if we had 10 robots it would be reasonable, but like if this is true, why aren't drafting coaches paid millions of dollars and games are just decided when the draft ends, who needs to actually watch the fucking game? Obviously draft has an impact, but there's people who think it has more impact than play (I've heard commentators/analysts say draft is 80% of the game result) which is complete nonsense to me. That's like saying the size of the soccer pitch accounts for 80% of the result, it's fucking absurd and I wish people would shut the fuck up about it and actually analyze shit that actually matters like kills/picks/map movements/wave states/teamfight positioning/damage/zoning/objective setup/vision control/mechanical performance or fucking anything of the million things that go into which team wins. Putting it down to draft or side selection is just the most surface level basic analysis and I'm sick of fucking hearing it.
it is so strange T1 got so much hate for losing one serise, they were only hyped to win msi not go undefeated in msi by analysts + remember g2 fans hyped g2 to win msi after day 1 + look at lpl fans(or t1 haters) after t1 lost one serise, they went to hype their reigon that top 6 lpl teams will win vs t1 + some lpl fans overhyped fpx last year, they said fpx won already worlds before lpl finals vs edg, and did not lose even in finals but lost to 3rd seed of na and lec, but the difference is fpx didn't get so much hate compared to t1. My point is all fans overhyped their teams not just t1 fans
No, people were saying that T1 already won worlds/MSI because they were undefeated in lck (in the worse lck split) and chinese teams couldn't compete, which is non sensical. T1 definitely were super overated, this T1 isn't better than DW last year. So that's why you think they're getting "hate", T1 fans got them so hyped that saying they were not that insane is "hating".
@@zthulhu1417 lpl fans said the same with fpx last year, g2 fans overhyped g2 after day 1, but when fpx lost to in group stage not even finals, they did not get that hate
Also, FPX was a contender, not everyone was saying that no one could compete with them for the title like with T1 this year. Is not hating on t1 is hating on the insane narratives of t1 fans. I actually think this t1 team has a lot of potential but they're far from being the best ever.
@@zthulhu1417so what?, t1 and fpx are both overhyped but t1 went finals with 5 games while fpx lost to 3rd seed of na and lec making 1-5 in group of stage which showed how bad and overrated fpx was unlike t1 smashed g2 3-0 and took rng to g5 in finals but they got so much hate comppred to fpx (the most overrated team ever).
th-cam.com/video/lSWTqAUBMyk/w-d-xo.html this is the video of thoorin and shaq btw shaq has changed his opinion on esports players admitting they are athletes
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9mbDXvDNqTU/mqdefault.jpg)
The best timeline is that Peter Zhang becomes a heacd coach in the LPL and when his team makes worlds in NA in the future he can't come.
regi on a life support time line
Don’t worry regi would just pay his way threw it just like he did the investigation he just got threw!!!
Let me add a further level of disgust to T1’s game 5 draft. I think that Nautilus ban suggests that Yuumi was pre-planned as one of the core components of their team comp.
That's the coach's fault then. They showed they can counter Nautilus with Renata. No reason to be deliberately inflexible.
As a football fan, I completely agree that both the WC and the UCL are dogshit formats.
But one problem with trying to "make it better" - whether it's double elimination or Best of Series - is the unreasonable amount of games it would require.
Footballers at the current state are already very overplayed. Yeah, they earn a lot of money and no one has sympathy for them but money doesn't change the fact that top players are already playing around 60 matches a season - covering 12-14km per match with sprints, tackles, headers etc. It's too much. Players have muscular injuries all the time and other semi long term injuries every other year. They literally can't play more. They are already playing too much.
Once the club season is over, they have to play for their nations. Whether its WC qualifiers, random "friendly matches"/nations league etc.
They have like 3-4 weeks of break a year.
To make the UCL better - and thus use a format that has more games - would require something drastic like ending the domestic cups in favour of a bigger European Cup. But you can't do that. For tradition's sake, as well as how much the domestic cups mean for smaller sides that could never qualify for the UCL etc.
At the end of the day, if you're a football fan, you just know: cups are up for grabs. Football is a game with many players, many variables, high variance - while also being a low scoring game. It's the most upset-likely sport. So in Cups, where single games and moments count "anyone can win it", kinda.
There have been cases of teams winning a domestic cup while getting relegated in the league in the same season - because they were actually really bad. They just somehow managed to win a cup/tournament.
Cups having a "bad" format isn't as much of a problem as long as you're reasonable enough to understand that winning a cup is not a good indicator for the strength of the team overall. They are entertaining competitions to watch.
Well, the media and stupid people will obviously always spin it in a way where the winner of a cup "were the best" and "amazing" and all that and glorify it and milk it as much as they can but we don't care what plebs say here, do we.
Football is complete different compare to esport. Footballer in Europe especially in EPL already overwhelm and suffer overuse injury by lots of game due to UCL expand 32 to 36 next year, and lots of useless exhibition game from FIFA day
Honestly the formats aren't that bad considering the amount of good teams there are. Upsets are almost always happening because almost any team in the last 16 is potentially good enough to actually win it all. The reason leagues format is so shit is because the gap between teams is so high and they play bo5s in quarters which also makes much more sense when an average game takes 30 min compared to 90 min a match so the worse team can never win the tournament while in football dark horse winners are a bigger possibility. To be honest every time Monte mentions soccer/football it's more apperant he doesn't understand it...
Cups 🏆 good at discovering who has good clutch players.
There's nothing wrong with neither WC's format nor UCL's, stop it.
@@HopefulNihilist yeah. _nothing_ wrong with it. nothing at all. it's the end all be all of formats and it makes absolutely no sense that any other formats even exist
31:42 I've never heard of Motte-and-bailey before and never thought that fallacy had a name, but I see it so often so I'm glad Monte shared it.
Worlds should have GSL bo3 groups. Playoffs with 8 teams in upper bracket and 4 teams starting in lower bracket.
Thorin’s rant about corporations co-opting your integrity and your creativity is fucking true. Their only goals are to make money so when they find someone who can create value while making money, they’ll want to take advantage of them and bend them towards just making money until it runs dry
While they'll always want to, you have the exact same power over them, and don't ever forget it. The reason it works is it's mutually beneficial. If you create value, they'll pay you what you're worth to them.
@@grandarchon6969 "If you create value, they'll pay you what you're worth to them.
" No, they'll pay you the minimum they can get away with. You know how much Nike paid for their logo? $35. You think that logo was only worth $35 to them?
@@lightworker2956 Intellectual property is a lie constructed by the Pfizer and Disney corporations to extract wealth from poor people.
@@lightworker2956 Furthermore, why would someone agree to sell a logo to Nike for $35?
T1 draft was mental boom in game 5. I thought they would go Thresh, Lee Sin with Jinx. It was the perfect game for that. Plus I thought Gwen Ban would be a given.
In fact, a lot of pros (including Korean ones like CT, pony) think T1’s BP was not bad, especially given their limited champion pool and the on-site performance of their players. Moreover, jhin+yuumi is considered good into tris+rakan and always has the lane priority.
Imagine if T1’s bot and mid hadn’t died before lvl 6, jhin+yuumi could have roamed to herald earlier than their opponents thanks to the lane priority, taken the herald, fed Jayce, snowballed their gold lead and turbo won the game.
I know it’s a high risk low error tolerance draft, but still winnable.
Interesting how people think they have a better understanding of BP than T1’s coaching team. And how people ignore the mid/bot gap in the game5 but blame it all on BP instead is a real mental boom
@@yiquanbeat7703 the BP was ok at best. But still the Only champ Bin was actually dominating was with Gwen. Plus Ahri and Jayce are poke champs with 0 synergy with a wukong. Yuumi provides 0 protection in all in team fights apart from her one sided ult. T1 gave RNG comfort picks while they moved away from comps that got them to that point.
If Faker was gonna pick Ahri then Lissandra should've been prio banned along with Gwen. Risk a kaisa first pick from Gala to give botlane draft advantage.
“Mental boom”. They are by far the worse team. They wouldn’t even be top 4 in LPL
@@jackthomas3483 That sounds radical. Let’s see how it goes in worlds.
As a classical educator for nearly a decade, it's pretty cool to hear Thooorin mention the Trivium.
G2 could of thought that the only way they're beating T1 is through the botlane since gumayusi was having an off tournament and t1's topside was disgusting
Monte: I'm fking free
Man this episode is hilarious.. The way Monte says it is so funny 🤣 things about Riot could be much worse than your imagination, things that aren't public yet about Riot/hidden under nda
T1 was not as good as people think lol. Just because they could stomp lck doesn’t mean sht. RNG loss was not a stomp whereas T1 loss was an absolute massacre
They was waaaay ahead at one point , now the gap is tighter is all
Took 100 minutes to realize there was no guest this episode
I wonder what it's gonna take to flip the narrative? Korea was dominant in international competition for years, but China's dominated for the past 5-6 years. I believe the record is something like 8-2 or 9-1. Yet every MSI and Worlds the narrative going in is "Korea vs the field", and coming out is "why did this player-for-player superior Korean team throw? " I mean it's been like 5+ years, starting to feel a bit racist.
Thorin himself has had to admit on one of his older videos that there has always been an unfair perception of the LPL. He didn't go as far as racism, because although he fails at times, he does try to keep politics out as much as he can.
Basically, before the LPL actually won finals, people kept shitting on them. Thorin finds it disgusting especially as people constantly predicted EU LCS (old name of LEC) victories against LPL teams, or rated EU LCS as a better region than the LPL. This is in spite of the LPL having been the only region to have defeated OGN (old name of LCK) in a best of five since the adoption of the league format in 2013. And the mental gymnastics people went through to explain away consistent 2nd place finishes by LPL teams at international tournaments.
And this is slightly beyond the current scope, but Korea has always had a huge leeway when it comes to getting away with bullshittery. How many people know that Korea is the only region that has cheated at Worlds? And if it had been anybody other than Korea, they would have been punished far harder than just two fines totalling
LPL are always painted as the villains too, inside riot hype trailers as well it feels like. Especially when T1 is involved they make them look like the “heroes who are looking to re establish dominance” while RNG are some computer hackers with an underlying evil voiceover. It’s so weird considering LPL has been 10x better than the LCK in recent years with Damwon 2020 being the only exception
Motte and Bailey shout out was legit. I'm here for that castle-based logical fallacy analogy.
I think you guys were way more harsh on EG than G2 especially considering EG actually showed more fight in the playoffs. Was a pretty pathetic performance from G2.
They hate NA teams with a passion! I shouldn’t say hate but it’s a desire to see them struggle and make a embarrassment of themselves
EG showed more of a fight against a better team too
I'm a T1 fan and I'm sad at the loss vs RNG, but I do think they needed to be humbled. The way they played out this series was just so weird. I sincerely hope they learn from this experience and come back stronger at Worlds.
Edit: I had tempered expectations on T1. I hate the overhype and I agree that they are indeed a very good team but they are also a very untested team. I'm happy with their perfect split but even I know that their path was far too easy.
I'm happy they got to the Finals, but I never thought them winning MSI was a foregone conclusion. The only true disappointment I had was their drafting, especially in Game 5.
The goats episode with Dom is also my favorite episode as well
The TSM drama segment was so good that I don't even give a fuck about the MSI stuff, I just skipped to the questions for more Monte and Thorin personality
I love you guys, amazing convo you had there at 1:50:00 and onwards
What is he gonna do with Yummi?
Maybe just don't get killed lvl one?
I think Polts point was that they didn't prepare red side successfully and he believes that if they had 3 x on blue side they would have won. Based on how the series went that's not incomprehensible. In saying that, T1's game 5 draft could have been much better, but it feels like their mental lost them the game, not the draft.
No way Regi wrote that statement bois, there was not even one "bro" in the whole spiel.
Why no more uploads on Spotify? I miss them!
If you want a good format, check out the HCS (Halo Championship Series) tournaments. Sucks it’s all crammed into three days, but the way they setup groups, play ins/open bracket, and the double elim winners/losers brackets is fantastic.
Agreed it’s a solid format. I would argue duration is a factor to consider when you’re judging formats though. Both total duration but also time between matches, and the duration is abysmal in all ways there.
Lol used to use tournament format only, its was much more exciting, and the teams like Moscow 5 that played better as u could surprise people with strats more because it wasn't being played weekly
How comes season 2 of SI was made private?
1:14:20 to the reason why T1 dosnt pick trist in g1 against galio, because they already picked jayce and noct picking trist mid would mean guma have to play ziggs karthus an ap bot which they didnt want to do
The TSM investigation wording is particularly interesting. They say he didn't do anything illegal... Noone accused him of doing anything illegal, they accused him of being a bully and a jackass, well the investigation basically found that 30% of the people they talked too thought that he was... So everything he is being accused of is true but they are hiding behind the "He didn't do anything illegal." Language.
I mean if they did the investigation and found out hes a mean person. Thats not illegal what else can they do? Its not a conflict of interest case lol
@@ajmDRUM if they found he did nothing wrong at all they would be shooting it from the rooftops. This is Regi we are talking about, the least subtle person on the planet. So considering they just released the statement and are trying to move on means that the accusations are true.
The MSI segment went from Monte hating on T1’s excuses to Monte looking for excuses for T1 .
T1 has had horrendous drafts the entire season, which has cost them numerous games. Although it just so happens that their team/individual skill is so ridicoulously high that it covered this major weakness. When they run into a team of equal or better skill it becomes a hard task, such as RNG.
Exactly, I would go on to add that if T1 is actually allowed to win international titles and get away with all these horrendous drafts, then perhaps the overall competitiveness of pro league players has dropped.
Great content!
Monty would you ever partner in starting your own esports Organization?
Montes question about Why is Regi so prized that he keeps his position as CEO? Isn't he majority owner?
Yeah but the board can vote you out and you lose control while maintaining majority shareholder
@@officaldjflo No they can't. You're thinking of largest shareholder, or plurality shareholder. A majority shareholder, a person who owns 51% or higher of all shares, outvotes everybody else.
Critical Role might do well in terms of providing a very polished, driven product - but it's definitely possible to have games that go into another direction, providing a less serious setting in the way of some friends sitting at a table and shooting the shit.
Monte might be right about engineers being taught "only doing math", but mathematics itself is a very artistic and creative activity where the rules of the game are formal logic. It involves lots and lots of writing, especially when it comes to proofs. You fundamentally practice all the skills that's involved in writing from a liberal arts education. Greek letters are just a way of condensing a lot of that writing. If you go back to the olden days of algebra, people were doing math over long form essays instead. Modern notation for algebra wasn't invented until 14th century.
One can even argue that mathematics is a much strong form of practicing logic as
1. you're utilizing formal logic
2. proofs have to be airtight while there's always weasel room in an argument in the liberal arts
You're right and there's even a branch of mathematics called Logic
As someone with a math degree and a drawing hobby: I agree that math is creative and a great logic practice, but disagree that it's artistic (unless you do a very specific kind of math).
Learning math is often "your teacher / the course book / your boss tells you to get to Y, find a way to get there, which may require creativity." Meanwhile, learning to draw means regularly asking yourself the question "what do I want to draw? And now? And now?" And also "I can use technique X or Y, and neither is objectively correct, which do I think is more pleasing?" So with math you don't really practice "what do I want to express" or "what do I find beautiful" or "what emotion do I want this piece to have" or even "is what I'm being told, actually true?" (because with math problems you just blindly assume that it is).
The is math and science to all things
The minute T1 put Keria on Yuumi I knew they had lost.
The Wold Cup happens every 4 years... When it happens you stop to watch it because the next one is a loooong way away.
And has the National factor of course.
I actually disagree that the CL is on average a better viewing experience than the World Cup. It’s better quality in the sense that the teams are better, but at a certain level of football, the game becomes tremendously slow, because scoring goes down the better teams.
So conceding a goal becomes worse, the better the teams are. Even worse when 2 teams are evenly matched.
The World Cup on average has less defensive coordination which means individuals making insane plays have more room to shine. It’s especially noticeable when you have situations like with Germany, where most of (especially offensive German players) play at the same club, so you get more of the offensive coordination of clubs vs defense chaos of national teams.
Also, Rectal Pulverizer
Idk why these episodes aren’t uploaded to Spotify anymore, this used to be my background audio at work smh
Pleb
Theyre gonna do a different Spotify channel for insight on esports. Dunno if it's started already they talked about it last episode
@@LAK253 so is he a pleb for not wanting to get scammed by TH-cam to play audio with a locked phone screen, or are you just spewing meaningless phrases like an npc?
@@atman8264 TH-cam Vanced doesn't work anymore for me at least after TH-cam took them down :/
You could also play the twitch vod directly and put it in audio only mode, it's always available
Joseph Campbell mostly wrote hero with a thousand faces cuz he was still fucking mind blown by finnegans wake lol
I believe Impact would be a good fit for Gengi
oxford grad oral storytelling flex
Zeus did not play Ornn because you can't montage on Ornn. Pros love Montage Champs so they can Montage
The fifa world cup's hype is due to nationality + the fact that it's once every 4 years
If it were a yearly event it wouldn't have had that big of a hype
Okay now the thing that is making me really curious and that I'd like to know you guys opinion on, is draft a problem in Korea? So you talked about the draft problems for T1, but here is what made me confused. You brought up the statistics about Zeus and Gumayushi and how they have most of their games on like 4 champions. Why the fuck aren't LCK teams banning these champions and trying to exploit their champ pool? Put them on something uncomfortable? Is LCK as a region questionable in draft?
The teams in Korea that'll get creative in draft and are decent at it have mechanically weaker players and much poorer macro. T1's drafts in Spring season were also incredibly hit or miss, but because their players were straight up better, they would win using these "win lane, win game" comps. It was also impossible for any teams to exploit their champ pools for the reason Monte pointed out in the video: there were enough available champions they could rotate out to make their one comfort comp work every game, even if someone tried to target ban.
Consider burning 3-4 bans on Gumayusi and then taking an ADC to slim the pool. At that point, it isn't going to matter if Gumayusi is put into the ground because you're giving away power/comfort picks to everyone else. Not only that, but because of how much LCK teams are willing to handshake, Gumayusi is still coming back into the game due to T1 out-rotating the other team. No other team in LCK in Spring was well-rounded enough (player-wise, macro-wise, etc) to match them, and it's only against teams that can match in all aspects that their terrible drafts get punished.
If the opportunity arose to ever take Esports out of California to a state like Texas it would be done in a heartbeat.
I hate the take, 100 million players. 2.1 million viewers. League has a strong player base, but everyone has multiple accounts. Active users - always switching accounts , of course they are active
I think you guys disrespect Doran too much. There’s a reason why he’s a player that’s been on top teams repeatedly and if you watched LCK in 2021 you’d know why Gen.G got him. Plus he had a very good start this year, the problem is that he choked at the end which is effecting recency bias.
There is nothing to cover up. Just show them the video of him flaming turtle
OK. Lets see if they don't ban nat Instead they ban gwen. rng Will first pick nat. Then what. Faker hasn't play galio for a long time or T1 Doesn't know how to play around galio. Besides guma is so bad at kaisa. If T1 leaves galio open. For sure rng Will pick galio and kaisa at r2 and r3. We All know how op is when rng has this team comp. At least till the end of MSI. T1 hadn't showed they know how to deal with this op dive comp.
Then don't pick Jhin Yuumi. Caitlyn Morg was still up, and it was all right the last time they did it. Just get in Gumayusi's face and threaten a nine clan punishment if he dies before minute one again. You've let Bin screw you over twice with Gwen already, so why are you doing the same stupid shit a third time? Xiaohu had a single good Galio game and you permaban it; what is it about Gwen that makes it so hard to ban?
"Stick to shutting the fuck up!" hahaha I love these guys XD
i watched "you're just a moron who plays blitzcrank" like at least 10 times, how is thorin so funny xD
How tf does faker escape criticism, this dude got bodied by xiaohu and all of his teammates get flamed
Well well well >:() look what we’ve got here
Because he had a cool zed play a decade ago
+2,207 Social Credits
Drakos' takes are really poor and having so many other, kinda more elevated, analysts available make it seem just wrong to have him on professing nonsense
that argument about the world cup sucking cause is low quality and it's format being horrible is because they have no passion for football. I see the world cup cause ITS THE FUCKING WORLD CUP AND ITS ONLY EVERY 4 YEARS AND IT HAS HUNDRED YEARS OF HISTORY. I don't care about the format or the quality of games, I watch it cause every team there, even if they suck, they went through a long process to qualify and it means they are one of the best in their region
When Thorin says he knows what Rekkless is really like what does he mean? Does he mean about him supposdenyl being super moody or a diva or whatever?
Yea, for years he has hinted at it or sometimes even leaked that he has had multiple ex-FNC members and other pro players come to him and tell him secrets or the current drama. This isn’t only for Rekkles though, Thorin and Dom and other content creators ALWAYS know what’s happening behind the scenes cuz they’re on a bunch of discord servers together with the pros themselves.
02:03:44 Man, I would love to give plep-LoL a try. I stopped playing league long ago but would love to just go full caveman and throw down with sticks and stones with dumbed down champs like in the old days. Somewhere mid 2012 would be a cool cut-off point for me.
Bring back seasson 2
Would be a real shame if one day it turns out these games were fixed in one way or another. Makes zero sense for T1 to draft and play like this again...
if u watch any LCK, it totally does. Koreans don't care about drafts. they're all about macro and mechanics. drafting has always been a cooinflip to LCK
Bro virtually everything in life at the highest level is fixed...name a field or sport. There is fixing.
The incentives are way too high and the odds against getting caught or outed are massive, because the industries have a major incentive not to publicize lack of integrity.Very rarely, periodically, they'll do a limited hangout of low-hanging fruit so people who "want to believe" have something to point to.
Cheating is SYSTEMIC in CS:GO and there are many channels that prove it, but people just don't want it to be true. It sucks.
I believe chess is probably full if cheaters as well, because how could it not be? With how small processors are, you could have access to an invisible level 12 Stockfish in your shoe or something with no problems at all.
@@neilpanganiban272 look. It wouldn't be the first and last time high profile players or teams in kr do bad things. Humans gonna human
The investigation said that when he called his players "retards" he was referring to the "work product" and not the employee. Isn't that worse? I mean, your entire raison d'être at that point is your play. A superior that can't stomach you but has respect for your craft is miles better in my opinion.
Only the mass migration to the matrix can save us from this real estate market Prayge
how much DJT did Monte lose?
This is off topic from E-Sports but I had to respond to Monte's comment on the value of Liberal Arts degrees. The things that you spoke of as being the pros of a Liberal Arts degree are literally skills that you should be obtaining from your general education classes at any decent university. As you somewhat mentioned, they don't really provide many skills that are useful to companies (at least nowhere near degrees in STEM, certain business/accounting degrees, etc). While I agree that people should get a well rounded education at University there is no reason for someone to spend 4 years and go into debt studying something with no marketable skills besides being able to communicate at a business professional level when those skills should be part of any university level education. Realistically the only "value" of a pure Liberal Arts education is to either to have an easier path to good grades to attend Law School or with the intention of pursuing a graduate/PhD in order to teach. However, both of those pathways can only accommodate so many people and you end up with a very large number of people who went to university because they were told they "had to" in order to be successful but leave with a mountain of debt and their only "skill" being essay writing.
At like 2 hours in, what kind of weird strawmanning is Thooorin on. If anything the "woke crowd" would argue that everyone's mind would be different, not the same.
I thought Graves counters Gwen.
No hull breaker anymore on graves
1:15:00
When i watched FNC - Royal at s3 worlds i was convinced i was watching matchfixing but then again i had no concept of chinas strength as a region.
That is one bad D&D take.
Every company investigates itself, mates. Riot investigated themselves and didn't find anything wrong during that harassment case, and then a legal institution found them guilty and made them pay 100m. Also, being an asshole isn't illegal, moving on.
Didn’t Biofrost come out as gay and talk about the hardships he faced because of it? Not far reach to think that Reginald contributed towards how he felt
I'd say you're trying to get to the moon using a tricycle with this one
Engineering definitely teachers you to think far more than liberal arts. What an ignorant and arrogant take. Engineers actually have the highest turnover of any university degree for expanding into business owners, doctors, lawyers, etc...
Apparently it didn’t teach you think about the fact that turnover rate exists because you can specialise as an type of engineer in literally every field.
What % of Aerospace Engineers do you think become medical doctors? How about the turnover rate of Computer System Engineers into Copyright Lawyers.
KR dont want to copy Chinese Strats , so they cant bann lucien, Gwen , GP
Ah remember when gamers wear just assholes an it was accepted I miss old lol
Äääåä
algo comment
Inb4 "rabid skt fan" haven't watched a game of lck in years and couldn't care less about china vs korea or faker who's favorite drink is water lol. Im curious if riot has ever made statements about rngs set up? Did they still have audio the whole time? Did they delay the stream by 5 minutes so there was no possibility to cheat? I dont think rng needed to cheat(especially with skts drafts/decision making), and im not good enough to recognize if wei changed pathing at certain points based on potentially fed information or anything like that. Just wish there was more Info out there. I think I've heard rng had 1 cam, no headsets, and no ref.(not blaming rng for the shitty CCP policies they have no control over) Did riot make any statements about this that I just never saw?
I hate when players and teams use side selection or draft as an excuse to why they lose a game, it's such a fucking weak excuse. Maybe if we had 10 robots it would be reasonable, but like if this is true, why aren't drafting coaches paid millions of dollars and games are just decided when the draft ends, who needs to actually watch the fucking game? Obviously draft has an impact, but there's people who think it has more impact than play (I've heard commentators/analysts say draft is 80% of the game result) which is complete nonsense to me. That's like saying the size of the soccer pitch accounts for 80% of the result, it's fucking absurd and I wish people would shut the fuck up about it and actually analyze shit that actually matters like kills/picks/map movements/wave states/teamfight positioning/damage/zoning/objective setup/vision control/mechanical performance or fucking anything of the million things that go into which team wins. Putting it down to draft or side selection is just the most surface level basic analysis and I'm sick of fucking hearing it.
Damn I can’t stand thorin
waa
it is so strange T1 got so much hate for losing one serise, they were only hyped to win msi not go undefeated in msi by analysts + remember g2 fans hyped g2 to win msi after day 1 + look at lpl fans(or t1 haters) after t1 lost one serise, they went to hype their reigon that top 6 lpl teams will win vs t1 + some lpl fans overhyped fpx last year, they said fpx won already worlds before lpl finals vs edg, and did not lose even in finals but lost to 3rd seed of na and lec, but the difference is fpx didn't get so much hate compared to t1. My point is all fans overhyped their teams not just t1 fans
No, people were saying that T1 already won worlds/MSI because they were undefeated in lck (in the worse lck split) and chinese teams couldn't compete, which is non sensical.
T1 definitely were super overated, this T1 isn't better than DW last year.
So that's why you think they're getting "hate", T1 fans got them so hyped that saying they were not that insane is "hating".
@@zthulhu1417 lpl fans said the same with fpx last year, g2 fans overhyped g2 after day 1, but when fpx lost to in group stage not even finals, they did not get that hate
¿Did you see FPX season last year?
T1 literally only played like 5 competitive matches this split and the finals were awful.
Also, FPX was a contender, not everyone was saying that no one could compete with them for the title like with T1 this year.
Is not hating on t1 is hating on the insane narratives of t1 fans.
I actually think this t1 team has a lot of potential but they're far from being the best ever.
@@zthulhu1417so what?, t1 and fpx are both overhyped but t1 went finals with 5 games while fpx lost to 3rd seed of na and lec making 1-5 in group of stage which showed how bad and overrated fpx was unlike t1 smashed g2 3-0 and took rng to g5 in finals but they got so much hate comppred to fpx (the most overrated team ever).
T1 draft game 5 was atrocious and the coach should be fired. Clearly has no idea what his is doing or was paid by china to throw the entire series.
The draft was also decided by the players . Ye fire all of them for being stupid right?
Holy shit stop saying spoiler
Thorin has infected Monte with it now
Unironically
th-cam.com/video/lSWTqAUBMyk/w-d-xo.html this is the video of thoorin and shaq
btw shaq has changed his opinion on esports players admitting they are athletes