VHS-1: Croatia Copies the FAMAS (But Not Really)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2022
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The VHS-1 was heavily influenced by the French FAMAS, albeit with a short stroke gas piston operating system. Early development began in the late 1990s with the prototype designs we looked in over the past few weeks, and the VHS-1 itself really emerged between 2003 and 2005. It was formally announced in 2005, and after formal testing by the Croatian military it was adopted, and the first military deliveries arrived in 2007.
In addition, the VHS-1 was exported to Kurdistan and the Iraqi Army. Two versions were made, the D1 with a long barrel and the K1 with a short barrel, and the upper assembly could be had with either iron sights (much like the FAMAS iron sights) or an integrated optic similar to the G36 and Steyr AUG. In total about 20,000 were manufactured, including a run of 40 made as civilian semiautomatic-only rifles for the Hungarian sporting market.
Lessons learned in the fielding of the VHS-1 would be used to further refine the design and lead to the VHS-2, aka Springfield Hellion.
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The World: Bullpups are the future and there's no place for conventional assault rifles in the 21st century
Croatia: *Creates the perfect bullpup*
The World: The HK416 is the future and there is no place for bullpups in the 21st century
Honesty, the HK416 probably wins a lot of contracts based on German economic power alone. It makes it a much more appealing prospect - good relations with the most powerful nation in Europe, and a certainty that it'll be able to fulfil major contracts for large numbers of rifles.
If HK made a bullpup HK416 (so basically a VHS-2) I imagine it'd be pretty popular as well.
@@HellbirdIV I've read lots of comments from french soldiers regretting that France didn't adopt VHS 2.
@@mynick937 I regret it too! I'm sure the HK416 and VHS-2 are pretty much equal as actual weapons, they're both well-made by competent companies, I just think the bullpup design is worth more than people give it credit for.
@@HellbirdIV I bet that first generation of soldiers that recive HK instead of FAMAS on which they are used to are cursing their government 😂
No, french soldier tend to prefer the 416 over the famas
Few corrections. There is an adapter You can put on the ejection port that directs empty cases downwards so that left handed shooting is possible. Also You can remove magazine well without playing with screws using that little button You see in front of it.
I saw lefties still getting hit with casings even though they used the adapter
@@rocketman4123 It is our curse... I still got pinged every once in a while using my M16A1 with the LH brass deflector.
@@shawnadams1965 That's what you get for being born wrong
Turns out that the old phrase "The French copy no one and no one copies the French" isn't always the case.
I remember walking at Eurosatory in 2014 and seeing a VHS-1. Had to do a double take when I realized it wasn't a Famas on display.
I just adore the looks of the VHS-1, been obsessed with this rifle for years.
It's amazing how far Croatian weapons have come since the 90s.
You're literally me
In the end I was very upset that I had purchased so many rounds of Betamax ammunition and then the inferior VHS technology won out.
LOL Only inferior in the Engineering department, the Marketing department dined out on it for years.
hahah thats a good one
Be kind, please rewind 😂
VHS-BETAMAX joks starting geting little bit old....
i transitioned to video8, smaller and faster ammo that performs a lot better
Ahh yes the VHS-2's awkward teenage years
Why awkward? I preffer how it looks compared to F2/VHS2.
Being a nerdy Francophile and borrowing French words all the time and didn't grow as quickly as everyone else earning the nickname "Napoleon"
@@Kacpa2 for me it doesn't look as "refined" as the vhs-2
@@jasonarmstrong5750 It doesnt have to, famas doesnt look that refined either. VSH-2 aggressively modern and painfully tactical like FN F-2000, or CZ newer submachineguns, i dont really like that look.
@@Kacpa2 well to each their own
Ian must be ecstatic. With the Hellion, essentially a modernized FAMAS has become a readily available and reasonably popular gun in the US
Interesting that they didn't give you the one with the picatiny rail and G-36C like iron sights. The VHS-D and K were the ones that came with the FAMAS style carry handle and sights. Later the VHS-D1 and K1 came with a more G-36C like rail and iron sights, which is the one I was issued (prior to replacing it with the VHS-2).
A certain amount of the D1 and K1 models were fitted with the red dot optic carry handle, but it was a much more common modification on the VHS-2, because removing the carry handle upper was easy. In my unit, we were all initially issued just the iron sighted version of the VHS-2, then after a while, certain members of the unit were issued the Red Dot carry handle upper, popped the old one off and put the new one on.
Got to shoot the VHS-1 when I was in Croatia in 2013 through the US Army. Really cool to see these videos of how it came to be.
This awesome series on the history of the VHS-2 is just cementing my plan to save for a Hellion. I’m really impressed by what all went into it.
Every serious shooter I know that has one has really liked it.
I've had a chance to handle one, and it's just a bit rear-heavy but you can actually one-hand it. Adding a bipod or a light/PEQ would fix the balance.
@@neglectfulsausage7689 as opposed to the Dodge Demon and Hellcat/Hellcrate?
Yup. I will happily buy the Hellion.
You’re right, Ian, I am not familiar with the HS Produkt. Thank you for sharing knowledge. We have been learning a lot
That Famas style carry handle is pretty distinctive. I like it.
These Croatian weapons have been so cool. This has been a really neat deep-dive to watch over the past few weeks.
I have truly enjoyed this series thank you so much Ian!!
I'm surprised more Bullpups do not utilize the Keltec downward ejection concept. It makes Ambidexterity a piece of cake. Alternatively the Beretta ARX system could be used in which ejection swap is accomplished by merely pushing in a button with a bullet tip. I am not left handed but a friend whom I go shooting with, is and he finds the system quite a relief.
They upgraded this rifle at some point. They add mounting rail to the top of the carry handle with iron sights that look more like g36 iron sights. I’ve seen videos of this version of the rifle and really hoped to see a video of this done by Ian.
It sounds like you might be thinking of the VHS2. Which, as Ian mentions at the end of the video, he has already done a video on. Try searching for "Springfield hellion".
@@MythicMagus I don't think so. There are multiple patterns of the VHS-1 that aren't that well known since it wasn't known that much. They're not official patterns, just slight iterative improvements until the VHS-2 was done. For example there are a couple of different sight patterns - rear aperture like on the FAMAS that is in this video, then there are some notch sights like on the G36, there's a drum sight like on HK rifles, the front sight is sometimes a blade, some are hooded, some have protective wings etc.
@@MythicMagus he is right, there are slightly upgraded verions od the rifle with more picatinny mounts and different iron sights
@@MythicMagus No. there was in fact a modification done to the VHS that replaced the FAMAS styles carry handle with the g35c style carry handle and iron sights.
In particular, the FAMAS style was designated the VHS-D/K, where the g36c style was designated the VHS-D1/K1.
I was issued the VHS-D1 at first, then replaced it with the VHS-2D
There are videos on TH-cam showing Croatian military personnel using vhs 1s with the pic rail carry handle. As others have said it’s a variant of the vhs 1 rifle. I always thought that was a cool version.
Nice video! Great job on documenting all this history!
Ian: Nobody copies the French and the French copy nobody.
Croatia: *SLAVO-BAGUETTE NOISES*
HS Produkt did, indeed, take cues from the G36 when coming up with the integral optical sight for the VHS-D1.
Back when this rifle was introduced, Croatia was advancing its integration procedures into NATO, which included aligning individual weapon systems towards NATO standards.
As the process for their new national service rifle went on, they purchased a huge number of G36 rifles for their frontline units and for those that would be deployed abroad with other NATO Country forces, on missions such as ISAF in Afghanistan.
Indeed, a detachable carry handle with an integral optical sight is also available as an optional for the new VHS-2.
The G36 lineage is also the reason why the VHS-1 and VHS-2 are primarily manufactured for military sales to use what Ian calls "a proprietary magazine that is much like a G36 magazine": that magazine well is 100% fully compatible with G36 magazines, and requires an adapter to use STANAG 4179 (M16-type) magazines.
By the time the VHS-1 and VHS-2 rolled out, the Croatians had purchased so many G36 magazines that it would be nothing short of a waste to just shift to another magazine pattern outright.
that is in fact a proprietary design and that mag well does not seat a g36 magazine, because it uses a M-16 style latch system, not the G-36 style paddle. on the VHS-2 it is also a different proprietary design, which does have a paddle latch system (much appreciated by the troops, like myself formerly) but it is shaped differently and will not fit the G-36 boxy magazine.
I've been issued both the VHS-1 and VHS-2. I know for a fact that neither was issued with g-36 magazines.
Case in point, the G-36 magazines do not clip together slightly offset like the VHS-1 magazines as demonstrated in the video.
As for "huge numbers of G-36 rifles bought", at most there was a few thousand bought, far less than the number of VHS produced and procured.
Waste or not, HS Produkt sure would not sell a rifle with magazines they would have to buy or pay license to produce, especially not to a somewhat notorious legal-trigger happy company like H&K.
VHS rifles running G-36 magazines is fudd-lore.
When Ian mentions the shortcomings of the FAMAS his eyes sparkle like a Frenchman discussing the foibles of his mistress :)
Amazing content like always, Ian. And i hope you managed to see more of Croatia besides the HS Produkt plant in Karlovac.
He saw the brewery too I'm sure.
Excellent presentation thank you for your time posting this content, very interesting.
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This really brings the meme "Is that a FAMAS?" to an entirely different level.
Great vid as always, would love to see a video over the Malyuk/Vulcan rifle.
I've enjoyed this series. They greatly improved their design over the iterations and came up with a credible modern rifle.
Damnit Ian, I had just finished convincing myself I didn't need a VHS2.
I'd probably be seeking one of these out over the VHS-2 were they ever imported, much cleaner, simpler rifle.
Watching this I just realize that the Beretta ARX would lend it's self fairly well to bullpuping
@ 5:00 that's so cool! The interlocking magazines
Lessons from war,no more duckt taping magazines.
"Mom, can we get a FAMAS?"
"No, we have a FAMAS at home. "
I bet this is better with the piston system
*better FAMAS
@@Pelmedeeznuts yeah but doesn't have the fun rate of fire like famas 1100
@@murphy7801Overgas it then
I watched this, and then went back to the videos about the VHS-2 (which, having been a victim of SA80 V1 - the L85 A1 edition) looks like an absolute dream of a weapon. Sadly, either it ain't there or I slept through it, at no point have you - that's you Ian McC - actually demonstrated how to hot-switch the VHS-2 fejection direction. Amazed as I am that there really is a bullpup that won't slice off half your face if you shoot it from the 'wrong' shoulder I really want to see how the switch between left/right ejection is engineered. .
Here, it's an old video, unfortunately in Croatian, but the guy demonstrates the left and right hand shooting at around 2:40. It's the reason why VHS-2 has a long length of pull.
th-cam.com/video/iCRqY9CEujE/w-d-xo.html
There is also a way to change the bolt orientation when you disassemble the gun. You move the cam pin and turn the bolt around so the ejector is pointed to eject to other side. You then take a small pin that holds down the dust cover and move it to lock the opposite ejection port. I think Ian shows it in one of his videos:
th-cam.com/video/2A-1lBWqHrw/w-d-xo.html
I held an HK-416 and the VHS-2 at a military show this year. VHS-2 has sooo much better weight distribution. It's also lighter. It would be cool if HS product found a way to float the barrel without significantly increasing the weight and rolled out a VHS-3.
Man that thing so sexy. And the VHS2 even more.
They made a pretty good product here
You are right. These videos show some serious leaps in rifle production for HS Products.
Thank You for visitnig and promoting our beautiful country!
Welcome again!
Ian is slowly collecting the VHS box set.
I love this first version!
VHS?
I thought this was a Technology Connections video
Ah, a fellow man of culture.
I was here for VHS repair.... I need to watch my Night Court!
I clapped!
The bolt carrier group looks almost identical to the Kel Tec SU16. Same dust cover and op rod design
Having had an SU16 for many years, I've noticed the similarity on many rifles. It's a simple, proven arrangement. George has an eye for the good stuff!
Thanks again Ian.
Now this looks much more like a Famas, and not a highbreed between a g36, QBZ-95, or anything. Other than the mag, and charging handle that looks to be taken from a g36.
because Croatian received a lot of G36s during their Independence War, and they liked them, so they use G36 control as basic
@@Pelmedeeznuts Croatia received G3 rifles during the Croatian war for independence,G36 was produced since 1996,by that time the war was over. I could be wrong,but I think the G36 rifles that Croatia got were purchased when Croatia was joining NATO,because Croatian military needed a rifle chambered in 5.56 for NATO missions and VHS rifle still didn't enter service at the time.
@@ZP1993 yeah I was wrong sorry, but the part Croatian have G36s is correct
Disassemble is easy but it looks like it would be a pain in the butt to clean the carbon build up. In side the housing and barrel.
the barrel wasn't a problem. you have direct access from the back. shove a rail with a cleaning patch down the barrel a gazzilion times and that's that.
Even cleaning the housing was easy enough even with my larger fingers.
the thing that was a bitch to clean was the trigger unit, which is why it was made into a removable package unit in the VHS-2 model.
The competing prototype, Betamax-1, never gained much traction despite purportedly superior performance.
Just watching the part about that safety makes me wonder how easy (or hard) it would be to manipulate. Would you consider doing a video about the manual of arms for the FAMAS? That's a gun that most of us here in the USA (and, frankly, most other nations) will never get our hands on so it would be cool to see you break that down for us. It might also be the start of a new series too.
Killzone Helghast assault rifle, but with a .10 gauge at the grip, and a drum mag
I love how this gun looks.
Wish we could have these rather than the 2 tbqh the faux famas is sick
Damn i did not know you were in Croatia. I used that rifle 2 years, not comfortable but it always worked
They are still used on exercises ( instead of AK47 ). When you will do VHS2 I hope they gave you all possible modifications.
Ti stariji modeli ili?
AK47? mislim da se koriste zastave m70, AK47 ruski su vrlo rijetki u hrvatskoj
@@urbanie Yeap. It is same shit...
@@urbanie Ima svega. od jugića, do rumunjskih, do mađarskih do nekih sa petokrakom iz 1970-te, itd. Na temeljnoj, bar kad sam ja bio, su svi dobivali kalaše.
Ja sam bio jednako precizan na 100 metara sa M70AB2 kao i sa VHS-D1 i VHS-2D
@@urbanie Ja sam imao na temeljnoj 2002 ruski kalaš iz 1969, boje nije ni bilo skoro na njemu a "palisada" nova promjenjena i naravno sa sjebanim nišanom. Ali sam plakao za njim kad sam dobio G3 veslo.
I feel like I know what the Killzone 2 rifle was based on now. Cuz in KZ1 the first one looks more like a FAMAS
I like how they repurposed rebar by drilling and rifling it.
Not hard to see why folks'd think this was a FAMAS clone just looking at it, no siree.
1:59 Woo, donut of death!
😂
Karlovac ! I was there with the ZNG in 91 !
They really should sell both of those versions to scratch people's famas itch.
Man, Ian's goatee is askew it's all I could look at.
Looks like a really solid design.
I bet that’s Ian’s favorite Croatian gun
Since Ian is a left hander the VHS-1 is the chick he's just not compatible with, no matter how much he likes the looks. We've all been there: Toying with the idea is entertaining, but committing will be nothing but pain.
@@andersjjensenlmaoooo
I saw the lens in the "carrying handle" and thought Yes another G36 solution 🙂
I know it is not the best... but I love My Hensoldt G36 sight
We need to move away from the thought of Ambidexterous as in "Make it for Lefty's, too." A more practical term is "Bilateral" controls for Bilateral use. Operating a firearm equally well with a strong or weak hand/shoulder is not just for Lefty's, but for significant tactical advantage. One incidental whack to the back of your right hand and--like it or not--you are a lefty for the next hour. Bilateral controls and either forward ejection or easily swappable R to L is the new standard really. I have actually started shooting pistol with my off hand much more for a new challenge (Tangental thought: If you REALLY want to go back to basics, operate your pistol ONLY with your weak hand--lock and load, fire, reload, etc. You will relearn the fundamentals at a really fundamental level.) I need to do that more with my rifle, too. Thanks for another excellent presentation.
Oh boy! Can't wait for the upcoming Betacam!
You'd think after all these years, sound quality would improve. (new phone, by the way)
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Thank you , Ian .
🐺
I would like to see an in depth comparison between the Springfield Hellion and the Desert Tech MDR (I have the latter). On the clock shooting is required.
Try In range TV channel.
Okay, ive found a new apriciation for the VHS-1 now
I like how every time Ian says Karlovac in this videos he is doing it more acurate
Vježba je naručivajuć Karlovačko.
@@mynick937 zna se koja je najbolja piva
I wonder if one thought behind the screwed in magazine housing was intended to leave the option open to an alternate mag fitting, if they wanted to switch to G36 or STANAG pattern mags, for instance.
Yes, that's what they've done. This mag pattern is the one that the Croatian military adopted and it's actually the later one - first pattern of the VHS-1 used STANAG mags.
The VHS-2 was developed with three different mag wells - one for proprietary mags, one for STANAG mags and one for FAMAS mags.
funny you mention daewoo.. the k2 is one of my favorites just for pure aesthetics but then I like the galil too for the same reason
Missed opportunity for 13:37 video length. Always appreciate your videos
Ian's video's always nake me refer back to the video that he made months ago so that I can compare lol
I can't wait until they come out with the DVD-1
i wonder if these vhs-1's will land in the surplus market at some point
That looks alot like the battle rifle from halo. Most people say its famas like but more squared and boxy with some future looks to it. To me now that ive seen this would say its that with some light effects.
It definitely looks more BR-like than the VHS-2, which everyone was calling the "irl BR"
It's so weird seeing the VHS-1 because half of it is like seeing the humble beginnings of an interesting and cool bullpup that's the result of testing and refinement and it's like almost there but still good. Kinda like a first entry in a series.
The other half is almost literally them asking France if they can copy their Firearms Homework and France said sure just change stuff so that it's not an exact copy.
Yes but it doesn’t take Beta mags as it isn’t a Betamax, it’s a VHS.
Hey Ian, if you could get your hands on one, I want to know more about the Mauser MP-57 which was made after WW2 for the Bundeswehr.
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You can take out a magazine wel without unscrewing the screws. Just push that button in front of it, hard.
Any way you could do a video on the newest version of the British service rifle?
So a FAMAS and a G36 had a child 😮
It's pretty amazing being Croatian and being schooled by my own country's guns by Americans. I love the passion behind the comments. Cheers guys.
The VHS-1 looks like an amalgam of the FAMAS and G36. As a left-hander, I prefer the practicality of the VHS-2, but the aesthetics of this earlier iteration are more appealing to me.
You should cover the Mauser Geha
You finally produced Karlovac correctly 😄😄
I see a lot of viewers from USA so here's one fun fact for you: coach Bill Belichicks grandparents were born in city of Draganić in Croatia, some 8 miles from the HS Product company that made this rifle. Nikola Tesla was some 90 miles further south :)
Second! that is a really cool rifle. I think it would be really cool if you did more airforce survival rifles. They are really interesting.
I hold only casual interest in firearms, but I'm quite a gamer. From that point of view, I find it interesting how video games can simulate real life eerily well.
6:29 Cause the FAMAS burst fire is trash in Counter-Strike as well
I like the FAMAlmost
You can swap shoulder on the FN F2000 without any change on the rifle.
That’s cool. Where are the Betamax and Video8 rifles?
Well they made the VHS-1/2, most of the world was on too the DVD so I no wonder it never caught on.
The barrel looks like a piece of fancy rebar
the VHS development in a nutshell: *_"This isn't even my final form yet!"_*
why does the serial number on the bolt carrier and rifle not match. just noticed it.
VHS-1 was a good horror flick, I recommend. Anyway, who's this Ian guy?!?
I'd love to have a VHS 2 CT. Purely becuase it looks like the battle rifle from halo.
I need it. Got the VHS-2 but I still want the first iteration.
They're not in production anymore
@@richard_from_england333 yeah just wish the remaining ones could be imported
@@ArchDeusAirsoftNC The remaining ones are used for training, for police etc..
@@richard_from_england333 figured as much, I'm sure over time they will be phased out like other before. Only time will tell.
@@ArchDeusAirsoftNC They'll be for sure.. but then converting them to semi-auto, getting licenses to sell them would be a hassle.. They'll probably donate them or sell them to another country like they did with their old Zastavas to Ukraine lol
This is the rifle that killed Betamax for good.
It now looks EVEN MORE Sci-Fi.
You should organize your video with those chapters so you can click the section you want
Cool, but when will we see the DVD?