Grendel SRT: KelTec SU-16 Meets Sako Hunting Rifle
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ต.ค. 2022
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Correction: The SRT used the Sako AII action, an updated L579 (not the L357) action.
George Kellgren is the brains behind KelTec and all their unorthodox designs. But before he formed KelTec, he created Grendel Inc, where he began his long career in the firearms industry. The first gun that Grendel brought to market was the SRT rifle, a Sako bolt action hunting rifle action mated with an underflowing polymer stock of Kellgren's design. The stock foreshadows the KelTec SU-16, but with lots of room for refinement.
The SRT was available in four calibers (.22-250, .243, .308, and .358 Winchester) and three barrel lengths (16", fluted 20", and 24") with a magazine capacity of 9+1 rounds. It was produced for about 3 years, and several thousand were made. It was marketed for hunters, but was also purchased by some police agencies.
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I like to think that Kellgren spends 80% of his time thinking of new ways to make things fold.
The other 20% being breaks to take Coke
@@RJ-wx3fh he's a thirsty man
Origunmi?
I'm surprised he didn't make the folding Glock.
@@zendell37 he did... It just wound up becoming their 5.7mm pistol.
This rifle was well ahead of its' time. It's only been in the last decade that shooters have begun to embrace a bolt action rifle with a folding stock for hunting. Imagine this same concept with a better folding stock and the new super light weight Howa action and its detachable mag. That might make one of the best backpacking/mountain rifles to date
There are still very few facrory lightweight folding hunting rifles.
@wet_paper
Yeah, but there's a lot of chassis options out there which is a relatively new phenomenon.
@@Rusty_Shackleford1 really for the terrain and game we hunt, I have always wanted to try to use a youth model .243 or .270.
Howa 1500 mini action in 6.5 Grendel is already 6.5lbs with scope.
Put a carbon barrel on it and you can probably get down below 5lbs.
Sure, but its a pretty shit quality gun even in the 80s.
Like, why would you use screws to hold crucial components in a gun when firing it rotates them loose over time? Or use such a complicated underfolding mechanism when the AKMS one was available at the time?
This was really ahead of it's time! Having lived through the 80's I can mentally imagine comments from hunters, like "Why isn't this a Remington 700 action?", "Where is the wood for the stock?, "Why no iron sights?", "Sayko? Don't they make Japanese watches?"... etc.
LOL , some truth to that watch remark ,some even today ..
Times haven't changed all that much
Can't say I've ever seen velcro used in a gun before, and I can't say I'm surprised the guy who did it also made the KSG.
Well, if you can attach a laser or torch pressure pad with velcro, then why not a magazine spring? It doesn't go anywhere. Very good design - no stretch of plastic with some metal pins, screws etc
The velcro adds some elasticity to an otherwise rigid mounting. It absorbs the vibrations of the hardened steel the spring is made of. Thereby it avoids breaking the bond all the time.
@@zdub8438 Joke's on you, I live in New Jersey; I don't own an AR-15.
@@IncredibleMD but wouldn't that mean that you're the joke all along?
@@keegenke leave him alone! He’s got it hard enough living in Jersey
Ian you definitely need to do an interview with George Kellgren. Doing some more interviews with leaders in the industry/historians is always a welcome addition to what you do here in my opinion
Yessssssssssssss😮
Very much so, all the interviews done this far has been top notch.
Nice! Kelgren is arguably the most innovative firearm designer of the last 40 years. Production and quality shortcomings have kept him from getting his deserved recognition. THAT would be a great interview for Ian!!
Lack of sling attachments is, IMO the main shortcoming of the SU16.
Agreed, interesting designs held back by poor quality materials, poor quality control and the worst warranty/cutomer service I have ever had the misfortune to deal with.
@@erroneous6947 I am also a fan of my sub2000. Good gun out of the box, great gun with a few upgrades!
I often wonder if he is one of those guys who enjoys the design and innovation part of the process but doesn't have as much interest in the "production" part of it. My current boss, we design houses, is like this. He is brilliant at creating unique and innovative designs but once that is done he losses interest very quickly till they are built and he can be using/walking around the spaces. To his credit though he hired people who are good at that part he doesn't like and ensures we are allowed/paid to keep things at a high quality.
The sling issue on the SU16 is easily fixed by a variety of aftermarket solutions. The biggest issue IMO was that the lack of advertisement/promotions and its novelty which made it an obscure platform and we know how open minded the private gun community is. Quality issues and customer service problems more associated with other products hurt the SU16s chances beyond recovery. I imagine in today's market of PDW hype, something like the SU16D in a smaller caliber would likely be better received.
And now imagine what he'd probably come up with if a whole lot of restrictive laws were not in the way.
Beltfed fullauto folding supershort bullpup'd 40mm gatling-shotgun-sbr's come to mind
Amusing that Kellgren's *first* product was so sane and normal. He's certainly let his firearms freak flag fly since this rifle!
Must have been before the Bolivian Marching Powder.
Sane and normal had made an abortion out of a SAKO
Sure, but they're still cool. Especially the KSG.
You say that, but I'm looking at the design choices here, and wondering just how much crack was smoked at the drafting and prototype benches... It can be taken down, but good luck getting it back up in a timely manner. You can pull the clamshell apart, but God help you if you have to do so in the field. The stock screw drives into a small, loose plate, but the set screw for the hinge has threads formed right into the plastic, instead of just using an insert. The front swivel is mounted on a plug, over a pin, held in by a pair of screws. The front action screw is user accessable, but the back one is buried in the stock. The magazine follower is *velcroed in place.*
How do you complicate a bolt-action rifle *that hard,* and come out with something that's less useful than just slinging up a rifle with a polymer stock? It's almost impressive.
It reads like Kellgren has ADD, and a meth habit. He comes up with these really solid concepts, and then takes one hit too many in the design phase, and it all comes up clown shoes.
nice alliteration
I always appreciate when Ian disassembles a gun, he narrates the instructions as if most of us will ever be lucky enough to even touch most of these guns. Keeps the hopium alive.
Lmao right! I find myself mentally taking notes like "Hm, if I ever have to disassemble a Grendel SRT, I need to be prepared!" 😅
This is rad.
Let's be serious...they could rerelease this tomorrow, albeit with an adapted magazine well for AICS/SR25/etc magazines, and we'd wait the 6-12 months for them to be in stock.
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 😆
Add few features from Magpull's backpacker stocks and Sako would need a new factory. Not that i think they would use Sako or Tikka rifle as a basis.
6-12 months? I STILL haven't seen an RDB in the wild.
Are you sure you don't just want a SU-16?
These were made for the Remington Pattern 14 / 17 action, and very popular with South African bush pilots in .303.
"Putting velcro on a gun is unorthodox"
Kellgren:
"Ok, but what if we put velcro *IN* a gun?"
The bipod spigot accepts one of the simple M-16 bipods. I made a replacement to allow the superior Parker Hale bipod to be installed. The muzzle of the barrel has an extended taper on which the muzzle brake is installed. The left hand-right hand threads pull the brake's socket firmly into place and would also push it off, had Ian continued to rotate the collar. I suspect this tapered muzzle and collar system would have allowed a suppressor to be installed with guaranteed co-axial alignment. My SRT shoots very well, holding moa with quality ammunition. The brake is effective.
I had 2 in .308 and 7-08. I remember taking it north Carolina hunting and just packing it in my checked suitcase. Just love these. I do think a carbon barrel woul be great today still. As an aside I had his Grendel r51 in 22 mag ,they really still make at keltec as the CMR.
This thing looks like Van Helsing went tactical.
😂
maybe it was somevan from helsinki.. eh?
If Van Helsing approved this rifle. I want 10.
this thing looks someone butchered fine art
Wish there was a mini action like this
Bless the TH-cam algorithm for bringing me here almost as soon as it got released
Same
Same
Same again.
SaME !!!
Hello Ian,
I'm an old time keltec fan. Thank you for this video of "keltec before keltec".
This Sako base makes me think of one I’d like to see you cover, which while not forgotten, is rare: I’ve got a Sako Finnwolf, which while I know the family history of, I know very little of the model history. All I know is that it’s one of the only lever action rifles Sako made. A very neat piece. This one being covered is great. Thanks again.
Hopefully this is a sign of some more Grendel content from forgotten weapons in the future. I would pay money to see Ian reassemble a P-10 or P-12
Every time I think I have the entire Grendel line stored in my memory, someone brings out some random plastic gun I have not seen before, ha. The fellow really has a long track record of out of the box designs.
I very much support a revision of this rifle though Keltec. Not a ton of changes have to be done to make it work either. They already have a better way of locking the stock in place. Change the magazine set-up. Maybe offer it in 6.5 Creedmore...or 6.5 Grendel to be extra meta, haha.
Make it to take AR-10 magazines and it'd do really well.
The first rifle I ever purchased for myself was a SU-16C. Absolutely loved that gun
I love Keltec's products. oddity, eccentric and interesting.
I have a sub 2000 that has blown up on me twice. The first time was the 3rd round ever fired through it. Kel-tec sent me a new stock, and after I repaired it nearly made it through a full magazine before it blew in half again. That was the first and last firearm I bought from them. It is currently in the safe in two pieces. They had a problem with their green stocks. I should have gotten a black stock when I got the replacement, but I was told the issue had been addressed.
@@buckinthetree1233 thats too bad. My sub2000 has like 3000 rounds through it including a few hotter handloand ands its been solid. The only issue its ever giver me is that after all the round the hammer spring is a tad weak and doesnt always fire off harder primer. Its shitty and expensive that you had that experience
@@sheslikeheroin1661 do you have the black stock or the green one?
@@buckinthetree1233 black. Its a gen 2 aswell to be fair
@@sheslikeheroin1661 I haven't looked into it in about 5 years, but as far as I knew it was only the od green stocks/frames and this happened about 5 years ago. I know tons of those were made and I don't know how many had issues. I know people that have owned the black stock/frame and have alot of rounds through them without a problem. I just know that I got two bad frames.
Man, if keltech hybridized this with a steyer scout, I think we’d have a beautiful rifle on our hands.
My old boss had the 16 inch barreled .243win model of this rifle. I even got to shoot my first deer with it when I was 12. Such a perfect compact lightweight little backcountry rifle. I wish they were still in production
You had a boss at the age of twelve?
Where did you grow up, Victorian England?
@@BatCaveOz rural Washington so yeah pretty much, it was even at a butcher shop.
An ultralight modern version of this would be amazing to see in 7.62. Fluted 16 and 18 inch threaded barrels, simplified folding process, and two short sections of Pic rail for an optic. I wouldn't mind if they tried to make an optional KelTec version of the Steyr Scout's integrated bipod for a little more weight. The potential for an aftermarket carbon fiber would be very exciting.
The Grendel SRT as seen in Africa had exactly that. Sold as just the stock, fitting the Remington Pattern 14 action, including detachable 10-round magazine, these were very popular with bush pilots in .303. Will also take the Pattern 17 .30'06, of course.
"Forget latches! Let's have the folding stock SCREW into the receiver! And forget making the screw accessible, we'll put a bike pump hose on the screw!" The writing was definitely on the wall for KelTec's creative ways with this one 😆
Well this is interesting! As I was helping load the last of my friend’s “valuables” into my pickup to stay with me for a bit while he cleans up after Ian he asks, “You ever see a Grendel”?
Different firearm but you raised his spirits a bit so thank you. I was carrying a heavy box and I asked what the heck he has that uses 6.5.
The brains behind Kel-Tec?
I thought that was their cocaine dealer.
XD they must hang out alot trying thier own products
The little toy train that hauls cocaine!
Love to see you put some rounds through this interesting rifle Ian
A single tear of joy rolls down Jeff Cooper's face
Yep, I have two set up with Scout scopes and the shorter length of pull works perfectly. Used T/C Contender dual dovetail mount to hold Leupold 2.5 scout scope. Just haven't figured out how to make a stripper clip guide.
@@wallyzworld7108 Find one of the SRT stocks made for the African market. They used to be--probably still are--popular with bush pilots. They're made as a replacement stock for the barreled action of a Remington Pattern 14 (.303 British) / 1917 (.30'06). That action has stripper guide, of course, and a detachable 10-round magazine.
I remember the P-10. An officer at the local shooting range has/had one and the thing was strange in that it was 380acp and that it used stripper clips for loading the fixed magazine in the handle. I don't remember being any more impressed by it than I was by the Beretta Cheetah.
As a owner of 2 of these nice rifles I thank you for showing this. I have taken many hogs/deer with them. Both are identical to the one shown.
Is follower sako or Grendel?
Hi Ian, great video as usual... You make great content and I watch your stuff all the time
I'm surprised you haven't done the Grendel P-10, as it was both revolutionary and weird, with the 10 round capacity and the use of 5.56mm stripper clips for loading the blind magazine.
I loved that piece!
Just like my H&K VP-70, *LOUSY* trigger, but marvelous design and lasts forever!
Do you plan on doing a review of the SU-16? I’d be interested is seeing that. Or maybe an interview with George Kellgren. I appreciate Kel-Tec’s innovation and am interested in learning more.
Completely unique and awesome firearm. Thank you for the video
would love to see this in shop again
The P-10 was simple and worked, I loved mine.
The front spigot was for attaching a m16 style clip on bipod.
I had an su16c and loved it, but it had some quirks. The most damning for me was that it didn't like cycling with its weight rested on the mag.
Only Kellgren design I own is a 20" barreled RDB. it's a dope rifle design and very accurate, very fun to shoot...and I'm an absolute AR-15 supremacist.
Excellent review!!
Hey Ian! I just received my copy of Chassepot to Famas and a signed purple copy of Pistols of the Warlords, I just want to say they're both beautiful.
If you manage to get the books to Europe to avoid the huge shipment+import costs, I'm pretty sure I'll buy all other books you publish.
Varusteleka are selling them now!
I had a Grendel P-10 back in the late 80's.
if this has left and right hand threads, both mating surfaces might have some indexing notches, which prevent the muzzle device from rotating when tightening
You can definitely tell this is a George Kellgren design. The handguard looks just like the first gen KelTec Sub2000.
that sure is a gun
It’s one of the guns of all time
Until Paul Hogan pulls out a Weatherby MKV.
I’m from Rockledge FL, never new something as interesting as this came out from there
Thank you for your videos!!!
@ Ian that front post that the front sling swivel is mounted on is shaped and sized to fit a clamp on bipod like the clamp on M16 style.
I have a Grendel 380 P-12 and 22 Mag P-30. This is the first time I've admitted it in public. 😁
You've come to a safe place.
bold move.
:D
I know a lot of people hate on Kellgren and Keltec, but they do interesting things
Yes I like the designs but the quality of materials, the quality control and obstacles based warranty service are deal killers. My first kel tec was my last kel tec. Worst firearms experience ever.
The very first thing I thought of when seeing this gun, i thought it was some sort of survival rifle that was suppose to be advanced than a mere single-shot break-action.
It could certainly serve that role.
@@lairdcummings9092 can't wait to see this in a fallout mod
@@EthanDyTioco i could see that
@@lairdcummings9092
For something only meant for a 'survival rifle,' I think the more compact and lighter 16" barrel model would be better, and it could even already have 9+1 rounds in the mag/chamber! Maybe a small plastic container of 10-20 more rounds with it. I think the scope rings are unnecessary though, just irons, and IDEALLY there'd also maybe be a single-shot .22lr on it somehow in case you get the opportunity to hunt a hare or bird or something if the opportunity arises. It would be pretty to, perhaps, somehow have a 'cartridge' that is actually an adapter to fire .22lr, maybe made in such a way that there's only one specific way to insert it, to hopefully retain accuracy with the irons on the rifle but also make sure that the existing firing pin smacks the rum of the tiny .22lr.
That'd be pretty neat... the adapter would have its own rifling inside albeit probably not much. I mean, .308 is 51mm of casing plus the projectile, not much overall length, so it'd have pretty minimal velocity/energy though that's KINDA the point for small game. MAYBE 2" of barrel... yeah that might be rather pointless lol Also, if the adapter doesn't fit PERFECTLY snug, then I imagine accuracy would be basically impossible so it seems unlikely to me that it could actually be done. Could be that people have experimented with such things before but it just couldn't be managed in a way that retains decent accuracy.
@@normanmccollum6082 considering the offerings of the day, this rifle chambered in .243 would do much better than a number of its contemporaries.
Really a clever concept and execution.
Now a days I feel like this could be done much better (and for it’s day done a *bit* better) but it’s still a solid idea with definitely some merits. And very, very unique.
Had one with the 16 inch barrel in 308 in the late eighties. That muzzle brake was effective. I traded it away for a Remington model 7.
I would absolutely love for Keltec to produce something like this! .308 with an 18 inch barrel, get it to about 6.5 lbs empty, add some iron sights and you would have an absolutely ideal scout rifle!
Kellgren + high-quality material + high quality manufacturing + top-tier quality control = WHAT I NEED
I had a Grendel P12 pistol. Only 380 I've ever owned that hurt to shoot. So light, recoil was unusually stout. That, and the plastic magazines were garbage.
Only one of Kellgren's designs I'm aware of that DOESN'T include polymer components is the RDB M43. WHICH I'M STILL WAITING ON BEING ACTUALLY PUT INTO PRODUCTION!!!
Come on George, the balls are blue enough!
This is awesome have a couple of Grendel fire arms I got from my father along with that same srt rifle and the p30 n a couple others I live here in the cocoa area right next to rockledge he machine those guns for them back in the 80s/90s got a free gun every year when they came out with new designs pretty cool to see this awesome video!!
I had never heard of Grendel until I picked up a P30, which I assume was Kellgren's first go at a 30 round .22 mag pistol.
More of these please
I had one of those stocks, sans hardware could never find info on it.
Now I know....Thanks
I really like the look and function of this rifle!
Neat little rifle, I would find it useful for backpacking or throwing in the truck around the farm. I appreciate that it appears one can still fire the gun with the stock folded, although I expect it would be very uncomfortable.
I remember these! The stock was made to match the Remington Pattern 14 / 17 action, and very popular in South Africa in .303 with bush pilots!
A very sound idea. I'd love to have something similar made with modern materials.
That velcro attachment is absolute genius
He came up with the most expensive way possible to get rid of a $3 crush washer on the muzzle brake.
The lineage is visually obvious. Just looking at the styling between barrel and trigger it was as if i were looking at the Keltec sub2000.
A Ruger 10/22 takedown with a folding stock like that would be interesting to me.
That has to be the first time I've seen velcro used as an internal component
There is a plastic wedge you can buy affectionately called a “case cracker” for opening laptop computers. You should buy one since it won’t leave marks on harder plastic.
In regards to your comment about whether Kel-Tec has ever released a product without polymer: I believe they did create a limited edition of the RDB with wooden furniture in place of plastic. I'm not sure if it was ever released for sale, however.
Another good kel Tec to get ahold of that actually is all steel is the RDB prototype with poly wood. Really cool looking rifle
Taking this rifle n' ad a good chunk of the scout rifle concept, would be a handy tool!
My " bug out bag " gun KelTec SU-16C in 5.56 NATO, Swampfox "Blade" 1x25 Prism sight. Great little shooter.
I like keltec as a company. I think of them as a kind of farm team for the big name manufacturers.
KSG series has a steel receiver, but most of their creations have polymer receivers/frames.
Sub-9 was metal also
Velcro'd magazine follower. That was not what I was expecting on "Keltec" Bingo.
They had an issue /recall with the sear going off while on safe. I know because mine went off leaning it on the wall of a hunting blind with the safety on.
Could the Sako parts be placed into a corresponding Wall stock?
You know what would be a really good tool for taking apart a polymer receiver? If you go to an auto parts store, they sell a set of tools for taking off door interiors.
I literally saw KelTec in the title and had to click because you know it's going to be wild.
how do you put a round in the chamber in a system like this? Push down the top round and force the bolt to snap over the rim of the round in the chamber?
I'd love to see a modernized SRT and I'm honestly surprised somebody hasn't tried to do so. Be it Kel-Tec or another company. Take down rifles or things of similar nature always have a market, the SRT as I always recall was marketed to hunters but also LEO's like SWAT teams. I'd like to see some in full powered rifle rounds like .308, 6.5 Creedmoor, .243 Win, 7mm-08, and etc. But also intermediate calibers, like 5.56/.223 Rem, .300 Blackout, 6.5 Grendel, .350 Legend, possibly 7.62x39 and .450 Bushmaster as well.
Of course, the price tag would likely decide if people would invest in it. But for a quick deploying hunting/hiking rifle in a wide range of potential calibers I have no doubt it would be a good seller. So long as it's not like a grand or beyond.
I've had a similar idea of such a weapon for military use in 50 BMG with a folding/collapsing metal box in place of a bipod. This would be filled with dirt, B.Y.O.E.T. (bring your own entrenching tool) to reduce recoil. Also in my idea the "dirt box" would have the option to quickly detach the bottom plate and drop the soil to displace and maneuver quickly.
_(Not very useful outside of some kind of scout platoon, sudo special forces, or Ukraine possibly)_
The dirt box could also afford a small amount of protection
Bags are easier than boxes.
@@keithklassen5320 While easier, but not better I think.
I'd imagine you'd want a rigid container, otherwise the recoil impulse would transfer into the operator's shoulder more. The Bag's would flex and roll before the fabric would get tense, and rifle would have transferred most of it's kinetic energy into the the operator.
Sand bag's could go in the box, but you'd want to have the operator to decide for themselves if that was something that they wanted to do on a case by case basis.
@@justindunlap1235 That's also true.
You might want to design your box to be the standard depth for stopping small rounds.
Was that 12 inches? Or like 18? I forget, it's been awhile since I was "sand bagging" sand bags...
I would love to see a modern version of this based on the Ruger American using AR mags.
It would be a great future episode to film a chat with Kelgrin (spelling?), I think.
That would be a great hunting rifle, I wish it was Friday and you were taking it to the range tomorrow.
½²²⅔4 23rd 3³¾4⁴⁴³éèe³èéèèè wee èèèèèèè
I hope you get some footage at the range. I'm interested in this rifle, but there is nothing at all online.
I used to have one of those grindle p380s that had the 12 round magazine and after two megs the takedown pins started looking like a croissant and it was supposed to be straight
I think they teased a stamped and wood of all things rdb once as the rdb comando or something
I had one of those when i was getting into bolt actions
I'd love one of those in a .308 or even a 35 Rem.
thank you for the video
The plum coloured receiver indicates an investment casting.
Normal people: Yeah just put a spring loaded detent on the stock, everyone does it, that works really well.
Kellgren: *Hmm what if i made a rubber extension for a threaded rod to screw the stock into the receiver so that the stock can fold*
I love those barrels, they’re so pretty
I had one of these in the 90's. It was an accurate, easy shooting rifle. Wish I still had it today !
The velcro makes it art