Made by J&D Jim what size door is going to be on your new shed I am in the same position on land have a large shed I about to extend the shed from 15 meters long to 22 meters long I currently have two large swing doors made out of steel they open to height 4.2 metres and door opening 7 meters. I have bee looking at all options of doors how big could you make your concept would be happy with 5 meters wide by 4.5 meters high is possible in your view ?
I learned to build this type of door on an airplane hanger, the door was easily 10m wide and maybe 4m high. I’d say that if your walls are strong enough, 7 x 4.5 is certainly doable. Door weight will be high so the header above your door may need to be strengthened as will the attachment points for the counterweights. I reckon you’ll need two counterweights and the attachment points for the pulleys above them need to be high enough to allow for the full height of the weights and the height of the door opening, plus half a meter (hooks and cable clamps above the weights). If this is a problem you may need to move the weights outdoors.
Nice! im fabricating a bifold hangar door for my city bus conversion. The plug door {door jam} is 45" x 70". i've had the same issue, my top hinge pivot it above the entry jam on the outside of the bus, my casters are inside the door jam, and center hinge pivots are just under the outer fascia. i was able to use garage door springs to offset the weight of the doors. Regrettable i took the bus entry door way to be plum straight and true which of course it is 1/2" toe in on the bottom right side from an undisclosed repair job. The bus originally had double plug doors by bode door. i love the work around you came up with on the casters being able to run on the inside above the jam! im reworking my design utilizing some of your workarounds.
Matthew, thank you for your comments. Equal length sides of the wedge is key, and the further up the wall the top pivot point is, the stronger the wedge will be.
I see others requesting copies of your plans. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I'd very much like to see them as well please. My email is matt_mouras@hotmail.com. This video is quite popular! To head off further requests, you could save a copy of your schematics to a place like Google Drive and then put a link in your video's description. Take care.
Thanks for the compliment! I retired last year and I end up opening these doors nearly every day when working on various projects, they continue to work smoothly. Please subscribe???
A roller door would work for you as well then. The advantages of this bifold is that it doesn't take any headroom inside and would provide some shade in the summer.
Hello! I love this design and am going to attempt it myself in the next week and half. I was trying to see the diagram at the end of the video but it is not very clear. If I have X width and Y height and Z height for the hinges. What is the best formula for figuring my panel sizes? Figuring my hinges at the very top are about 33 inches away from the top of my door opening.
It’s as simple as the middle hinges (pivots) are 1/2 distance between top and bottom pivots. The complications arise from the top and middle pivots being outside while the bottom pivot is probably inside a wall that is N inches thick and probably some distance above the floor. You might be able to work out your X Y Z locations by mocking up a two dimensional proof of concept using some of the structure material you intend to use for the actual door…just on one edge of the door opening. A successful design will shut flat while having a balanced wedge when fully open.
Hi Jim! This video is fantastic! Very informative and functional!! I’m looking into building something similar for my patio. The door is only 4’x7’, for motorcycles, but I’m building it with wood. Might you have any recommendations for those amazing pivot points? Cheers!
Your door can be pretty light duty but I guess you'll need to take weather into account if it is an external door. Wind loading can be a significant strain but the size you're talking about isn't much bigger than a normal door into a house. Flashing around the edges will help keep wind out. Hinges? I just used barn hinges at the top (2x) and good heavy door hinges in the middle (5x). I don't think any hinges will fail for a door that size anyway but still, take care that the fasteners you're using are secure as I think that would be the first failure point. You can probably get away with 35x70 wood for the door frame too.
Yes...so far, so good; all fingers are intact. Every door of every type has a pinch point. This type of door is operated from the inside since it can only be latched shut on the inside. I guess it is not impossible for someone to pinch their fingers on the outside but it would take some doing...about the same as someone shutting a car door from the outside.
Hello, thank you for the comment. I hope to get around to putting a seal around the door at some point by slapping on strips of flashing around the sides and top. The doors are usually both open when Working on a project, no chance to keep bugs out no matter what. As far as critters, no problem so far in eight years; I reckon due to the lack of anything worth eating.
LaserFalcon, it could be but then again, maybe not. Try not to get distracted by the height ratio between upper and lower panels. The door panels could vary dramatically, width or height, even larger than the opening. Maybe, imagine that we're just building a frame on a blank wall, no panels and no opening. To create a stable "wedge" when open, the measurement from the top hinge to the mid-point hinge must equal that of the mid-point hinge to the point where the lower panel intersects the wall. In my case, the bottom edge of both my doors end up inside their respective openings. The amounts are different because the bottom edge of one pivots on the outside of the wall while the other pivots in a track mounted on the inside. I am having trouble describing this idea, apologies if I fail.
Ding Dong. I have two different drawings. Placing the lower pivot on the inside of the wall on the second, vs on the outside of the wall on the first door made for differences in design overall.
taking up the least amount of space was one of the objectives. The others were the ability to open the doors with something in relative close proximity to the front/back and not restricting use of the area to the sides or internal ceiling. Not refined for sure! I'm all about function over form.
Nice design. I am making a similar door out of 1" sq 18ga steel tubing and infilled with corrugated steel, like your 2nd door. It is pretty light, both doors about 40 lb, but I am having some difficulty with the roller mechanism and the forces once the door is in the up position. So as the door folds up and the wedge gets smaller and I believe that the moment arm between the bottom door where it attaches to the post on each side of the opening and the top hinge gets smaller, therefore both forces increase. So is your counterweight the same weight as both doors?
good question about the total weight of the door. I didnt weigh the doors individually because the upper hinges hold some of that weight. I made the doors and assembled them in place, opened them all the way and then rested them on a bathroom scale. Probably not an option for larger doors. There would be quite a bit of stress on the lower bearings and tracks. Having said that, I learned how to build this type of door from my dad when he built his airplane hanger in the mid 60's. All the weight of those huge doors on the bottom corners was taken by relatively small roller bearings and 1/4 inch thick C-channel.
Good job J&D
thanks that was a good demo with a lot of thought and in sites.
I’m pleased that you found it helpful. Thanks for the comment.
Well done Jim like your design
Rob Thomas thanks Rob. We just bought a new house with some land, which means I’ll be doing a larger door on a new shed. Exciting!
Made by J&D Jim what size door is going to be on your new shed I am in the same position on land have a large shed I about to extend the shed from 15 meters long to 22 meters long I currently have two large swing doors made out of steel they open to height 4.2 metres and door opening 7 meters. I have bee looking at all options of doors how big could you make your concept would be happy with 5 meters wide by 4.5 meters high is possible in your view ?
I learned to build this type of door on an airplane hanger, the door was easily 10m wide and maybe 4m high. I’d say that if your walls are strong enough, 7 x 4.5 is certainly doable. Door weight will be high so the header above your door may need to be strengthened as will the attachment points for the counterweights. I reckon you’ll need two counterweights and the attachment points for the pulleys above them need to be high enough to allow for the full height of the weights and the height of the door opening, plus half a meter (hooks and cable clamps above the weights). If this is a problem you may need to move the weights outdoors.
it is possible that the weights can get by travelling half the door height but they’d need to be twice the weight.
You've got my vote! Thanks, enjoyed your explanation.
Nice! im fabricating a bifold hangar door for my city bus conversion. The plug door {door jam} is 45" x 70". i've had the same issue, my top hinge pivot it above the entry jam on the outside of the bus, my casters are inside the door jam, and center hinge pivots are just under the outer fascia. i was able to use garage door springs to offset the weight of the doors. Regrettable i took the bus entry door way to be plum straight and true which of course it is 1/2" toe in on the bottom right side from an undisclosed repair job. The bus originally had double plug doors by bode door. i love the work around you came up with on the casters being able to run on the inside above the jam! im reworking my design utilizing some of your workarounds.
Those are helpful comments. Thank you!
Too bad about your door being out of square, were you able to overcome it? I knew a Jim Harvey in Wyoming.
Matthew, thank you for your comments. Equal length sides of the wedge is key, and the further up the wall the top pivot point is, the stronger the wedge will be.
I see others requesting copies of your plans. If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I'd very much like to see them as well please. My email is matt_mouras@hotmail.com.
This video is quite popular! To head off further requests, you could save a copy of your schematics to a place like Google Drive and then put a link in your video's description. Take care.
Thanks for the compliment! I retired last year and I end up opening these doors nearly every day when working on various projects, they continue to work smoothly. Please subscribe???
Cool. We live in the artic and we get alot of snow drifting so any swinging along the ground is prohibited in many cases.
A roller door would work for you as well then. The advantages of this bifold is that it doesn't take any headroom inside and would provide some shade in the summer.
Hello! I love this design and am going to attempt it myself in the next week and half. I was trying to see the diagram at the end of the video but it is not very clear. If I have X width and Y height and Z height for the hinges. What is the best formula for figuring my panel sizes? Figuring my hinges at the very top are about 33 inches away from the top of my door opening.
It’s as simple as the middle hinges (pivots) are 1/2 distance between top and bottom pivots. The complications arise from the top and middle pivots being outside while the bottom pivot is probably inside a wall that is N inches thick and probably some distance above the floor. You might be able to work out your X Y Z locations by mocking up a two dimensional proof of concept using some of the structure material you intend to use for the actual door…just on one edge of the door opening. A successful design will shut flat while having a balanced wedge when fully open.
Hi Jim! This video is fantastic! Very informative and functional!! I’m looking into building something similar for my patio. The door is only 4’x7’, for motorcycles, but I’m building it with wood. Might you have any recommendations for those amazing pivot points? Cheers!
Your door can be pretty light duty but I guess you'll need to take weather into account if it is an external door. Wind loading can be a significant strain but the size you're talking about isn't much bigger than a normal door into a house. Flashing around the edges will help keep wind out. Hinges? I just used barn hinges at the top (2x) and good heavy door hinges in the middle (5x). I don't think any hinges will fail for a door that size anyway but still, take care that the fasteners you're using are secure as I think that would be the first failure point. You can probably get away with 35x70 wood for the door frame too.
Nice! I've got to give this type of design a try with my powerarc welder.
Good luck, I hope these videos make sense.
Nice engineering, enjoyed the video
Great job! Wonder if you could use a pair of hatch struts for a van instead of the counterweight and cables?
They would have to have an eight foot stroke. If using a dual pulley block to divide the stroke by half, they would need to have an 80 lb capacity.
Yes...so far, so good; all fingers are intact. Every door of every type has a pinch point. This type of door is operated from the inside since it can only be latched shut on the inside. I guess it is not impossible for someone to pinch their fingers on the outside but it would take some doing...about the same as someone shutting a car door from the outside.
Is the center hinge mid way between top hinge and bottom of door, wondering how you determine placement of center hinge
Great design and video. Is there any chance of getting a scanned copy of your pivot point calculations? Keep up the good work and take care.
Hello Pnd - I haven't checked messages for too long. Are you still interested? Where to email scans?
2dear can I get a copy sent to my email mrgp71@gmail
Com thank u
Great design, however to add weatherstripping could be a bit difficult. I notice you don't have any on yours-how do you keep the bugs/critters out?
Hello, thank you for the comment. I hope to get around to putting a seal around the door at some point by slapping on strips of flashing around the sides and top. The doors are usually both open when Working on a project, no chance to keep bugs out no matter what. As far as critters, no problem so far in eight years; I reckon due to the lack of anything worth eating.
Excellent spectacular.
Saludos desde Buenos Aires Argentina 👋😎
Thank you!
Genius
Thank you!
LaserFalcon, it could be but then again, maybe not. Try not to get distracted by the height ratio between upper and lower panels. The door panels could vary dramatically, width or height, even larger than the opening. Maybe, imagine that we're just building a frame on a blank wall, no panels and no opening. To create a stable "wedge" when open, the measurement from the top hinge to the mid-point hinge must equal that of the mid-point hinge to the point where the lower panel intersects the wall. In my case, the bottom edge of both my doors end up inside their respective openings. The amounts are different because the bottom edge of one pivots on the outside of the wall while the other pivots in a track mounted on the inside. I am having trouble describing this idea, apologies if I fail.
Good technique
Thanks mate!
nicely done. do you share a drawing plan? thank you.
Ding Dong. I have two different drawings. Placing the lower pivot on the inside of the wall on the second, vs on the outside of the wall on the first door made for differences in design overall.
Not the most refined door , but the basic design is practical. At least it doesn't take up any space in your garage.
taking up the least amount of space was one of the objectives. The others were the ability to open the doors with something in relative close proximity to the front/back and not restricting use of the area to the sides or internal ceiling. Not refined for sure! I'm all about function over form.
looks like it work best on the gable side of the building
This is fantastic. Thank you for the detail! I'm going to adapt this design for an application inside our house.
hey nice to hear another south aussie are you in metro or country sa
Southern metro near Christies Beach
Nice design. I am making a similar door out of 1" sq 18ga steel tubing and infilled with corrugated steel, like your 2nd door. It is pretty light, both doors about 40 lb, but I am having some difficulty with the roller mechanism and the forces once the door is in the up position. So as the door folds up and the wedge gets smaller and I believe that the moment arm between the bottom door where it attaches to the post on each side of the opening and the top hinge gets smaller, therefore both forces increase. So is your counterweight the same weight as both doors?
good question about the total weight of the door. I didnt weigh the doors individually because the upper hinges hold some of that weight. I made the doors and assembled them in place, opened them all the way and then rested them on a bathroom scale. Probably not an option for larger doors. There would be quite a bit of stress on the lower bearings and tracks. Having said that, I learned how to build this type of door from my dad when he built his airplane hanger in the mid 60's. All the weight of those huge doors on the bottom corners was taken by relatively small roller bearings and 1/4 inch thick C-channel.
Everyone still got all their fingers with that guillotine on the outside
Exelent. Good worck
Wanderfull
thank you!
Ding Dong. I have made drawings for both doors, they differ in how the lower rail is made which drove differences in overall design.
thanks James. I'll see what I can do. I could scan the drawings and email.
Молодец!
Really nice 👍
Can I have the drawings?
Suscrito!
Yes, i’ll need your email address...