Every time one of these stories comes out, I become more convinced that flunking out of my game design major was divine intervention because I would've had a mental breakdown working in the games industry by now.
As a Uni student who's studying IT, I think I'll have to settle for joining a gaming club at most. (Gaming is my passion, but I can see the writing on the wall. At least I have music and art.)
Kick myself every day for not going into comp sci instead of the generalized game dev course here. My advice for most people now who want to take the course is "don't". Take a course that deals with your field of interest and come back to learn game dev later on.
It's always weird how I make the comment about how usless ceos are as a job. And people rip into the idea like I don't know ceos "take all the risk blah blah blah" no, that's only true when a company first starts up. Once successful, especially after two decades of it, there is no excuse for a ceo to be making decisions on anything involving development, what do they do or produce that is of value? Especially if you're the new ceo coming in on 20 years of successful i.p. launches and long term customer base, never had to do the initialwork to set up departments or logistics on the market, you're already winning, how do you mess it up? Greed. The answer is always always greed. This is why unions are important. Or else you will never have job security in any industry. Bc some asshat who was born into wealth thinks he can delegate your job better while never once even knowing where to begin with that job if they had to do it.
Agreed, after a couple years, a CEO SHOULD be just and upgraded site manager, making sure all the people below him are doing their jobs right, and should be paid, a BIT more than average, not MILLIONS more than average. It always sickens me to my stomach every time I hear these CEOs spending MILLIONS on cars, the amount of money that I, and most of the people at that company, will NEVER have "just lying around to spend on pleasantries like 'exhibition vehicles'."
So when Bungie devs said in a post last year that they didn't have resources to make new stuff for Destiny 2, in spite of all the thousands of dollars its players were paying for stuff, this is where that money was going? Figures.
By the way, Bungie is currently going through some restructuring by Sony, and Pete Parsons is somehow going to keep his job as CEO. What a great industry.
OBJECTION! It appears that Sony's response to this was to force Parsons to become a subordinate of SIE's managerial chain, giving him less decision making power and more overhead management. Since they're pulling his bonuses and make him a cog in the sony machine, he can't take the money and run, and now has to actually manage his studio. Source: Bungie insiders delivered this information before going radio silent.
@@thecaptain6520 I don't think the independence part is the problem, I don't have much confidence that they'll do that well regardless of whether or not Sony takes the reigns. Bungie's big mistake was pitching Destiny as a WoW-esque forever game that turns longterm player engagement into borderline passive income. Once you pitch yourself as the tech grifter's wet dream, good luck succeeding in that paradigm. If you fail to deliver that promise, you'll be consumed or liquidated because you're considered a failure. If you succeed, you're probably going to be hollowed out for as much as your company is worth and then consumed or liquidated anyway. That's what success looks like in most cases when you attract the attention of people who want a golden parachute.
Fortunately, it appears that Sony's response to this was to force Parsons to become a subordinate of SIE's managerial chain, giving him less decision making power and more overhead management. Since they're pulling his bonuses and make him a cog in the sony machine, he can't take the money and run, and now has to actually manage his studio. Source: Bungie insiders delivered this information before going radio silent.
@@TexasSkeleton he has so much money by now, either through his car collection or by amassing money, so making him to do his job instead of whatever he did before sounds like a better punishment. He would not care about getting fired and i would bet that it will not take a long time until he just quits himself now that he has to do things.
I think Patt got one thing wrong. I think Destiny was profitable, however the CEO did not put the money back into the game and pocketed the profits and kept Bungie on the edge of bankruptcy
It’s probably a bit of both right? Live service games only get exponentially more expensive to manage as time goes on, especially one as expensive as destiny was. My guess is that it’s just not nearly as profitable as the money guys think it should be as they eye Fortnite and Final fantasy 14, meanwhile the CEO blows millions on a bunch of bullshit
Once you have enough money it genuinely becomes meaningless and valueless so by using it to purchase tangible items they are effectively converting a worthless sum (within their perception) into a legitimate asset that confers value.
@@Vanity0666 Automobiles are one of the worst items to do that with though because they almost INSTANTLY lose a massive chunk of their value once they leave the seller
I can not imagine being on the Final Shape team and absolutely crushing it only to get laid off like 2 months later. I am done with Bungie unless something drastic changes.
>unless something drastic changes Uh, yeah, that's the idea. That's why one project was canceled and why Sony now has direct control over Bungie. Their days of doing whatever is over. That *is* the change.
ill do you one better on the "reviving a character whos death and killer and most of his screentime no longer exist" point, pat they revived his killer as a new person back in beyond light era. all of his story arc up until the final shape took place in seasonal content, the stuff that vanishes after one year. SO HE DOESNT EXIST ANYWHERE AND THEN SUDDENLY BLIPS INTO EXISTENCE HAVING SKIPPED PAST HIS ENTIRE ARC IN TFS IF YOU PLAY THE GAME NOW!
YoU hAD tO Be tHeRE!. Just like the time they expected you to sit in the tower for who knows many hours just to see the almighty crash down and it turned out to be a wet fart.
Worth mentioning that Destiny makes its own budget back and more no problems. Its that Bungie keeps spending Destiny's profit on other bullshit projects. It's functionally the same thing as FFXIV and Square Enix.
This whole deal reminds me of those videos you see where someone gives a raccoon a chunk of cotton candy and it instantly dissolves in their hands when they try to wash it.
9:11 oh, destiny 2 is very successful pat. Its just that it was a FFXIV on steroids where any profit it makes got milked and divested into other projects which were openly shovelling money into the fireplace
@@adamc4077 Thats because nothings even made it to the finish line yet. They incubated multiple AAA titles, from two unannounced titles to Marathon (3 in total), with one of those unannounced titles seemingly dead. They funded an entire second studio location according to some ex employees, only for it to be too much of a cash sink and abandoned with nothing to show for it.
@@nahman3836 They chuck so many free gifts at streamers, you'd think they'd all be broke by this point. Then again, a lot of these 'gifts' are just polymer bundle decorations 💀
Idk warframe is kind of a slog to get into. You have to grind for weeks to wait days just to craft and try any of the cool warframes in game or shell out a few bucks every few weeks for their primes. I gets its a f2p pve game so atleast you dont get shit on by the whales but they still try every step to make you feel the fomo of not spending large amounts of money.
@@NANINani-wg6df Yeah, the craft times are just about the one thing everyone can agree sucks. On the upside, you can crack relics, sell prime pieces for spare change platinum, and just buy past the craft time relatively easy.
What *exactly* are you advocating for? Are you even man enough to go through with what you are implying yourself or do you just want other people to do the work for you like these people?
@@1wayroad935i mean, it doesnt take a strong will, someone will be close by....they just need the WANT to do not what's right but WHAT FEELS RIGHT BABY!
15:00 Amusing to me because I'm playing Warframe while I'm listening to this. Cool thing about that game: You can play all of the content they made for it still.
Been playing remnant 2 for a while. Just picked it back up again for the new dlc. It is quite literally EVERYTHING destiny 1 was originally intended to be. It's story isn't anything to write home about. But the world building, Gameplay, mechanics, loot system, graphics all blow Destiny 1& 2 our of the water.
Bungo probably makes a fuck ton of money but since it's a live service game and needs constant updates and constant content while making massive DLC's they're just taking the money you're giving them and throwing it into a furnace just to keep the lights on. Also somehow this "AAAA" studio still makes cutscenes that are locked to 30fps and are in a preset resolution.
Hey, guess what game HAS repeatedly updated and streamlined its onboarding process to make it easier/more interesting for new players? Hint: it rhymes with "Forwrame"
This is why I grown have such a corrosive hatred for online games as I get older. One day, it just won’t exist anymore. No emulation, no backup copies, no purpose. If your art is intended to self destruct for no reason at all, I have no interest in getting involved with it to begin with, and it’s an absurd sell to win me over. I imagine many players are the same. At least old multiplayer shooters have campaign and local coop. Destiny will one day slip from existence and will be nothing but a memory, and at this point it will probably be a nightmare for those who experienced it.
From the latter half of the conversation: Remember when content vaulting came down, and Bungie swore blind they’d be unvaulting the content some time in the “Future”? I ‘member.
I saved my Warlock for last doing The Final Shape campaign, and in the middle of me having fun we see the layoffs and my entire clan I’ve been playing with since 2014 just all together stops playing. Shit sucks.
You know, much like Game of Thrones, I did not get into Destiny when everyone was raving about it, and now that it shit the bed in the last about 4-5% aprox. of it's lifespan I am once again glad I did not get into something everyone was telling me I should get into, because instead of Anger that all my good memories are now tainted by this horrible conclusion, I get to sit back, point, and laugh once again as everyone has meltdowns over the situation.
That actually happens to me a lot. People say my standards are too high while I reply to them that the irritation I'd have to endure from watching or playing something I think is trash outweighs the chance I'd miss out on something I might like. I can also just bask in the schadenfreude when that thing goes to shit and everyone else starts agreeing with me in how trash it is.
Sony are a bunch of idiots. How the hell did they not see this coming? Microsoft saw this coming, that is why they did not acquire Bungie when they had the chance. Sony bet big on gaas games praying that coming in so late in the game would actually generate them money. So far, Bungie has only lost them money, cancelled most of their projects, produced Concord, and their only success was Helldivers...which they had no faith in to begin with. Now Sony is out billions, had several mass layoffs, and are going to have a dry couple of years because they put all their chips on Bungie. Oh and it has finally become obvious that Bungie was ALWAYS the problem. Their management has always been so god damn awful. Even back during Halo, the development cycle for CE and 2 were nightmarish because Bungie could not manage their way out of a paper bag. Both Microsoft and Activision were willing to let them go...and now we know why. They burn through cash and do not make a profit. Glad people are finally finding out what I have known and told people for years.
Important note about the last two expansions: Lightfall was bad, but *sold well* because hype was at an all-time high. The Final Shape was great, but *sold poorly* because hype was at a (then) all-time *low* minus the small content drop right before. Destiny’s big problem is that nothing they have is even remotely comprehensible to anyone who hasn’t been playing it half a decade. Between that and the terrible management, I can’t think of a single Destiny player I play with who would *ever* recommend the game to a friend. Ever.
To me, this is why I always bork at the idea of FFXIV having it's own Cataclysm-esq restart. Ever since the annoucement of Stormblood way back when, early disscussions of new expansions always had some people saying it needs some sort of restart to distance itself from the story thus far as an (weird) way to "move things forward" Yet I've always felt that's a terrible suggestion for content updates, as I always thought that not only it'll be pretty bad for new players who want to get engrossed in it's story (an literal selling point of the damn game) but also a really bad case of FOMO for just about everybody involved. Then cut to years later, Destiny 2's bizarre vaulting of old content and the very real possiblity it's gonna stay that way, not only it made things *really* difficult for new players to properly get into the game as it's first half is just nonexistent, but also they don't have much of a chance to engage with the community that is now starting to jump ship as they feel it's on it's way out completly. So yeah, what a great idea for your story driven live game /s
Isn't Dawntrail the equivalent of a Cataclysm-esque restart? The main overarching story ended definitively with the previous expansion so Dawntrail is literally the Dawn of a new Trail for the plot to go.
@@MattManDX1 Not really? You can still play the first 10 years of worth story within the game itself, WoW got rid of their story content until classic came out and from my understanding I heard Guild Wars 2 did something similar (though I also heard they reintegrated the cut stuff back in). The point is, getting rid of the ability to *actually* play the story is a bad idea for updating your game, both for a player standpoint and a business one also. Much as I hate the shareholder mindset of "infinte growth" making your game new-player unfriendly by appealing only to vetrerans isn't going to get you that far as there's always the chance of them getting burnt out later on either through finding new content lackluster or a new update ruins their fun for them (ie. microtransactions). Without the ability to draw new people in, you basically screwed of that safety net.
It's going to anyway. Much like how film has pursued blockbusters- game projects are getting too big, costly, and time consuming while increasing in risk for lower returns. At some point many AAA studios due to changes in available capital or poor releases are going to find themselves with no way to fund themselves going forward.
Asian gaming is doing just great at the moment. It's mostly western gaming that is crashing and burning outside the indie scene. Who's laughing now, game journos from the late 2000s?
Just don't play live service games. Games should have a beginning, middle and end. If it doesn't have all three of these things simply do not bother. You won't miss out on anything worth caring about, I promise!
@@MattManDX1 Street fighter games pretty much all have a single player story, and more importantly they all have offline play. Even if they completely remove the online component street fighter remains fully playable.
@gloomy_gus - uses the "constant updates" corpospeak as a selling point (even though they don't update it anymore, so it's also false advertising) - invented lootboxes - filled to the brim with purchasable cosmetics (muh hats) Yeah, *totally* not a live service Did I mention they invented lootboxes because I can't say it enough
Hello, Average Juan here with nearly 3k hours on the game and with a few things to say. First, Pat is extremely correct with everything said regarding new player onboarding and story issues. As much as I love this game I actively gatekeep new players from going in on it. Without another player guiding you this game is ridiculously hard to navigate. The state of the game is built for OGs who went in day one and stayed for most of it. I’ve taken various breaks from the game time and time again (as one should with anything honestly) and missing story beats had to be replaced by Lore videos. Even if your OG you can have the wonderful experience of playing with other OGs who pretentiously tell you about their build/destiny1 career whether you asked or not, if not spouting off random meme garbage while fucking up mechanics they’ve seen 100 times. Edit: TLDR I love this game but it’s community and it’s asinine decision making management is horrible.
Are the menus still a confusing mess? I remember getting stuck very early on in the base game because I couldn't find how to travel to places because the prompt was buried in seemingly unrelated menus
@@sanninjiraiya They have cleaned that slightly. It does require some more reading than most who play FPS would like to do though. Even worse if you are guiding someone through a quest because I'll ask what the quest says and the usual answer I get is "where is that?" or "I don't think I see that"
Knowing how the bean counters are, it might be that it got ok'd BECAUSE it's generic, and the others got canned because they had too much personality, which is risky. You never know.
I think that people, both companies and consumers, should understand that the name of a company, such as Bungie and so forth, becomes more irrelevant as time goes on; what members that were on to work on Halo are not all there to work on Destinty, and pretty much a large portion of different development teams have the same issue of having many of the former employees that worked on the former content hit the can somewhere else and the team having its leaders replaced as much as there general employees. That goes for pretty much all of them, from Blizzard onwards. The ones behind the name are not going to be following the same philosophies and general qualities that the ones before them had, unfortunately.
taking all the profits & budget from your company to buy cars... yeah i think Yuji Naka is gonna get a new cellmate assuming they can catch him in all his embezzled cars
It's not just new players either: they are literally constantly vaulting the new story content. I took a break for like a year and the story was completely incomprehensible to me, and it was impossible to go back and play through what I missed
Destiny has taught me a great deal about the reality of the world. It's one of those situations where I'm just having enough fun to justify buying into it and spending a lot of time playing it (until Shadowkeep, I haven't played in many years), but there's enough bad that it makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes. I make up some scenarios in my head regarding Bungie, or Activision, or Sony, whatever the most likely culprit is at the time. Problems are constantly discussed within the community, and tempers flare occasionally, but the game is still fun and many people are here for it. Then a decade later, as I'm looking at all the history of the game and the company laid out in front of me by other people for our convenience, I realize I was wrong. Not only was I wrong, I was so wrong I never would've even considered how wrong I was. It was NEVER okay. It was ALWAYS a shitshow. It was not just a shitshow, it was one of the worst shitshows in the gaming industry for YEARS at a time! It kept being a shitshow to this very day, and it STILL becoming more of a shitshow!!! I couldn't have imagined the problems going on behind the scenes, throughout that whole time I was playing and bouncing between the good and the bad. It was always on fire, and I just couldn't see it.
I swear, money grubbers are only people shady enough yet stupid enough to buy a bunch of armored wagons with zero appreciation for creativity and the people who have it.
Bungie leadership spending money on nonsense and cooking the books like this is WILD. I’ve played destiny since the first game and for the first time in like a decade I have to think about what my next lifestyle game is gonna be (please nobody mention warframe 😂 the movement in that game kinda give me motion sickness 😂) I do *kinda* enjoy the concept of corpo screwing over by another corpo in Sony getting fleeced by Pete Parsons 😂
@@raccoonofmotivation20seems like we're moving to a point where capitalism doesn't guarantee games either. It already has given us a culture of churning out incomplete games and charging people again in the form of dlc. Don't get me started on microtransactions...
Nah, I like the gameplay and story, it's a lot of fun. The game itself's really good, always has been. One can like something and also be disappointed in leadership decisions. I'll just be sad if something I like a lot ends up crashing and burning.
@@Acrobuster I guess I can kinda get that. When it's literally the only game to scratch that specific itch. As a borderlands fan I too can also appreciate the pain of watching your favorite franchise slowly rot
@@Acrobuster TTWL was the best to date and I was irrationally pissed when Randy Bo Bandy Opened his mouth and said they were interested in making more and My heart sank because he'd just sung its death song
I still think Warframe and Destiny aren't very comparable beyond some surface-level similarities, and that's coming from someone who has sunk hundreds of hours into both. Like Pat said, Destiny is a very controlled and tuned experience, where beyond exploits/unintended interactions, it always seems hesitant to let players have a real power fantasy experience. In Warframe, if you know how to build your loadout, endgame doesn't exist anymore. That's not even getting into things in Warframe like player-driven economy, non-standard game modes like Railjack, community-made content, etc. Of course, that shotgun-style splattering of content is just as intimidating to players as Destiny's own onboarding. Not the best metaphor, but I see Destiny as an incredibly huge and beautiful ocean about 3 inches deep, while Warframe is a pond where you can't see the bottom.
I'm all for shitting on the Bungie upper management but as usual Pat took this as the time to randomly shit on a game that he doesn't like. Comparing it to a game that's really not similar as well and honestly like I know Pat is petty as fuck but this felt really petty even for him and kinda felt like he didn't know what else to contribute to the conversation besides "I was somehow right Destiny is bad cause Bungie CEO's are assholes." Though I think this is a problem where we're lumping what CEOs of a company are doing with the devs of a game that are just trying to make a game and just shitting on all of them cause fuck it. Which is a shame tbh. People generally never take the time to separate the two.
I think talking about the context of Destiny's bad decisions (while enjoying himself and giving his own personal take-- Like if you asked me to start talking about Kingdom Hearts or something), and how that also probably affects things, is interesting and relevant enough.
Reminds me of when the EVO scandle dropped and Woolie was devestated as he knew people effected by the news. Meanwhile Pat is cackling and doing his cynical act while Woolie is visibly upset. He will not let an oppertunity to shit on people go no matter the context.
Every time one of these stories comes out, I become more convinced that flunking out of my game design major was divine intervention because I would've had a mental breakdown working in the games industry by now.
I'm currently working through my Game Design major right now and I have absolutely no clue what I'm going to do, this industry is ass.
As someone that quit school before all of this happened i feel like that was divine intervention to keep me from going into debt
As a Uni student who's studying IT, I think I'll have to settle for joining a gaming club at most.
(Gaming is my passion, but I can see the writing on the wall. At least I have music and art.)
Same here.
Kick myself every day for not going into comp sci instead of the generalized game dev course here. My advice for most people now who want to take the course is "don't". Take a course that deals with your field of interest and come back to learn game dev later on.
No you don't understand he needs a Lamborghini to crash every weekend while drunk driving
Can't spell "PieCE Of shit," without CEO.
the true final shape
good thing you sucked at English
Woolie not knowing what concord is, is the best part of concord
"What is Titan?"
"Nothing. What's concord?"
It's always weird how I make the comment about how usless ceos are as a job. And people rip into the idea like I don't know ceos "take all the risk blah blah blah" no, that's only true when a company first starts up. Once successful, especially after two decades of it, there is no excuse for a ceo to be making decisions on anything involving development, what do they do or produce that is of value? Especially if you're the new ceo coming in on 20 years of successful i.p. launches and long term customer base, never had to do the initialwork to set up departments or logistics on the market, you're already winning, how do you mess it up? Greed. The answer is always always greed. This is why unions are important. Or else you will never have job security in any industry. Bc some asshat who was born into wealth thinks he can delegate your job better while never once even knowing where to begin with that job if they had to do it.
Agreed, after a couple years, a CEO SHOULD be just and upgraded site manager, making sure all the people below him are doing their jobs right, and should be paid, a BIT more than average, not MILLIONS more than average.
It always sickens me to my stomach every time I hear these CEOs spending MILLIONS on cars, the amount of money that I, and most of the people at that company, will NEVER have "just lying around to spend on pleasantries like 'exhibition vehicles'."
Boss makes $10 I make a dime
@@sizzitysy6969 That's why we poop on company time!
So when Bungie devs said in a post last year that they didn't have resources to make new stuff for Destiny 2, in spite of all the thousands of dollars its players were paying for stuff, this is where that money was going?
Figures.
By the way, Bungie is currently going through some restructuring by Sony, and Pete Parsons is somehow going to keep his job as CEO.
What a great industry.
OBJECTION!
It appears that Sony's response to this was to force Parsons to become a subordinate of SIE's managerial chain, giving him less decision making power and more overhead management. Since they're pulling his bonuses and make him a cog in the sony machine, he can't take the money and run, and now has to actually manage his studio.
Source: Bungie insiders delivered this information before going radio silent.
"Restructuring" is a really nice way of saying that Bungie is never becoming independent again.
I thought Sony is demoting him and moving him to a management position where he actually has to do his job?
@Hisnitch meh, we've seen what they've done with "independence"
They don't deserve it
@@thecaptain6520 I don't think the independence part is the problem, I don't have much confidence that they'll do that well regardless of whether or not Sony takes the reigns.
Bungie's big mistake was pitching Destiny as a WoW-esque forever game that turns longterm player engagement into borderline passive income. Once you pitch yourself as the tech grifter's wet dream, good luck succeeding in that paradigm. If you fail to deliver that promise, you'll be consumed or liquidated because you're considered a failure. If you succeed, you're probably going to be hollowed out for as much as your company is worth and then consumed or liquidated anyway. That's what success looks like in most cases when you attract the attention of people who want a golden parachute.
Fortunately, it appears that Sony's response to this was to force Parsons to become a subordinate of SIE's managerial chain, giving him less decision making power and more overhead management.
Since they're pulling his bonuses and make him a cog in the sony machine, he can't take the money and run, and now has to actually manage his studio.
Source: Bungie insiders delivered this information before going radio silent.
Hope that's true. The only better thing would have been if Pete got kicked out, but forcing him to stew in the dookie mess he made is great.
His bonus was paid in the form of cars
@@TexasSkeleton he has so much money by now, either through his car collection or by amassing money, so making him to do his job instead of whatever he did before sounds like a better punishment. He would not care about getting fired and i would bet that it will not take a long time until he just quits himself now that he has to do things.
I think Patt got one thing wrong. I think Destiny was profitable, however the CEO did not put the money back into the game and pocketed the profits and kept Bungie on the edge of bankruptcy
Revenue is not Profit
@@1wayroad935 my point being the CEO didnt put money back in the game
It’s probably a bit of both right? Live service games only get exponentially more expensive to manage as time goes on, especially one as expensive as destiny was. My guess is that it’s just not nearly as profitable as the money guys think it should be as they eye Fortnite and Final fantasy 14, meanwhile the CEO blows millions on a bunch of bullshit
All Destiny's profit was fueling a bunch of 'incubating' games that are now never coming out
It couldn't have been that profitable if Activision of all companies willingly parted with it without even trying to sell it
_"I fawkun LUV cars!"_ -every games industry Executive for some reason 🤔
Owning many expensive things is a good way to prove to yourself that you are a Superior Person™ compared to the employees you're about to lay off
I mean...if you wanted an asset to quietly hold on to that wouldn’t get looked at too closely....
Once you have enough money it genuinely becomes meaningless and valueless so by using it to purchase tangible items they are effectively converting a worthless sum (within their perception) into a legitimate asset that confers value.
@@Vanity0666 Automobiles are one of the worst items to do that with though because they almost INSTANTLY lose a massive chunk of their value once they leave the seller
@@MattManDX1 the concept of "value" isn't strictly monetary.
The value exchange occuring is monetary for experiential
1:23
Pat Bandicoot
Fuk you right. That’s uncanny
I can not imagine being on the Final Shape team and absolutely crushing it only to get laid off like 2 months later. I am done with Bungie unless something drastic changes.
>unless something drastic changes
Uh, yeah, that's the idea. That's why one project was canceled and why Sony now has direct control over Bungie. Their days of doing whatever is over. That *is* the change.
This sounds like a 10 year story where we eventually find out he got hooked on blow and wound up on the street.
I hope Pete does. I really do
ill do you one better on the "reviving a character whos death and killer and most of his screentime no longer exist" point, pat
they revived his killer as a new person back in beyond light era. all of his story arc up until the final shape took place in seasonal content, the stuff that vanishes after one year. SO HE DOESNT EXIST ANYWHERE AND THEN SUDDENLY BLIPS INTO EXISTENCE HAVING SKIPPED PAST HIS ENTIRE ARC IN TFS IF YOU PLAY THE GAME NOW!
YoU hAD tO Be tHeRE!. Just like the time they expected you to sit in the tower for who knows many hours just to see the almighty crash down and it turned out to be a wet fart.
We live in a perfectly sane system that makes sense, comes at absolutely no one's expense, and most definitely can't be changed.
getting this recommended after concord's death hits extra hard
15:20 AY yo big shoutouts to warframe and Rebecca fr 🙏🏾
Worth mentioning that Destiny makes its own budget back and more no problems.
Its that Bungie keeps spending Destiny's profit on other bullshit projects.
It's functionally the same thing as FFXIV and Square Enix.
This whole deal reminds me of those videos you see where someone gives a raccoon a chunk of cotton candy and it instantly dissolves in their hands when they try to wash it.
9:11
oh, destiny 2 is very successful pat. Its just that it was a FFXIV on steroids where any profit it makes got milked and divested into other projects which were openly shovelling money into the fireplace
Like what? Just curious, I don't remember much from bungie other than destiny
@@adamc4077 Thats because nothings even made it to the finish line yet. They incubated multiple AAA titles, from two unannounced titles to Marathon (3 in total), with one of those unannounced titles seemingly dead. They funded an entire second studio location according to some ex employees, only for it to be too much of a cash sink and abandoned with nothing to show for it.
Man, what a healthy industry!
Meanwhile, Warframe devs consistently release large story and gameplay additions to their free to play game for no cost to the players.
Warframe is like one of the only games i know where everyone loves the whales, since they help keep the game legit f2p
@@nahman3836 They chuck so many free gifts at streamers, you'd think they'd all be broke by this point.
Then again, a lot of these 'gifts' are just polymer bundle decorations 💀
Idk warframe is kind of a slog to get into. You have to grind for weeks to wait days just to craft and try any of the cool warframes in game or shell out a few bucks every few weeks for their primes. I gets its a f2p pve game so atleast you dont get shit on by the whales but they still try every step to make you feel the fomo of not spending large amounts of money.
@@NANINani-wg6df Yeah, the craft times are just about the one thing everyone can agree sucks. On the upside, you can crack relics, sell prime pieces for spare change platinum, and just buy past the craft time relatively easy.
There is absolutely a cost. Time and mental fatigue.
Concord looks like if someone typed in “Guardians of the Galaxy” through some AI program.
Let's not forget about the companion app Destiny had that the Grimoire: A BUNCH OF LORE PAGES UNLOCKED THROUGH GAMEPLAY THAT IS NOW JUST GONE.
dude minmaxing his company by firing people to avoid being absorb by vassal lords is such a dystopian concept
Pat, I appreciate you Simple English'ing stuff like this for us
Everytime I hear another bungie story, I think about how much I gotta get back into Warframe.
man those guillotines looking real rusty right now
somebody should grease them up
We’re not that type of of company 😂😂😂😂😂
Daily reminder that these people have names and addresses
Based and true
What *exactly* are you advocating for? Are you even man enough to go through with what you are implying yourself or do you just want other people to do the work for you like these people?
@@1wayroad935i mean, it doesnt take a strong will, someone will be close by....they just need the WANT to do not what's right but WHAT FEELS RIGHT BABY!
@@1wayroad935 Shut up dork
@@1wayroad935That we should go visit and look at his cars, of course.
How bungie has fallen and it’s all thanks to certain ceo with his car collection obsession
Were the cars he bought good ones?
7 Cybertrucks, probably
Some old buckets, sorry, ViNtAgEs
That part at the end there, now I finally get why I loved Remnant 1 and 2 so much!
Pat never got over having to delete his year one Better Devils Handcannon? It back in the loot pool Pat. It's Ok and still feels great to shoot.
15:00 Amusing to me because I'm playing Warframe while I'm listening to this.
Cool thing about that game: You can play all of the content they made for it still.
Not entirely true, there's a couple of operations and event related stuff that isn't accessible. Like tube men of regor
@@Shinigami13133operations are just unpaid beta tests for unfinished mechanics though
Been playing remnant 2 for a while.
Just picked it back up again for the new dlc.
It is quite literally EVERYTHING destiny 1 was originally intended to be.
It's story isn't anything to write home about.
But the world building, Gameplay, mechanics, loot system, graphics all blow Destiny 1& 2 our of the water.
Just started playing warframe, it’s fun! I’m on mars:)
Awesome man I hope you enjoy your time
Bungo probably makes a fuck ton of money but since it's a live service game and needs constant updates and constant content while making massive DLC's they're just taking the money you're giving them and throwing it into a furnace just to keep the lights on.
Also somehow this "AAAA" studio still makes cutscenes that are locked to 30fps and are in a preset resolution.
100 percent agree with the remnant 2 shoutout
I just want Halo 3 era Bungie back.
Well yeah, everyone does
Hey, guess what game HAS repeatedly updated and streamlined its onboarding process to make it easier/more interesting for new players?
Hint: it rhymes with "Forwrame"
The Multi-Million Dollar all new IP Franchise top of the line best of the best CONCORD was immediately forgotten by Woolie is so incredibly funny.
"We're not that kind of company." What, a fiscally responsible one? That's for sure.
This is why I grown have such a corrosive hatred for online games as I get older. One day, it just won’t exist anymore. No emulation, no backup copies, no purpose. If your art is intended to self destruct for no reason at all, I have no interest in getting involved with it to begin with, and it’s an absurd sell to win me over. I imagine many players are the same. At least old multiplayer shooters have campaign and local coop. Destiny will one day slip from existence and will be nothing but a memory, and at this point it will probably be a nightmare for those who experienced it.
so i've got an idea. it's a little radical, but hear me out:
what it... we *DIDN'T* put sociopaths in positions of power?
@@NocturneJester "oh no, what a nightmare!" he sarcastically replied
Bad news, the system actually incentivizes sociopathy
Unfortunately, it's the tiniest and pettiest people who desire power the most.
Yep remnant 2 is just really good.
Remnant 1 is kinda rough.
From the latter half of the conversation: Remember when content vaulting came down, and Bungie swore blind they’d be unvaulting the content some time in the “Future”? I ‘member.
Dude is a CEO-pilled carmaxxer, you have to give it to him.
Y'know what? I think I WILL go see his cars.
Most ethical and paragon CEO
I saved my Warlock for last doing The Final Shape campaign, and in the middle of me having fun we see the layoffs and my entire clan I’ve been playing with since 2014 just all together stops playing. Shit sucks.
Bungie is one company who probably wishes they could go backwards, preferably to the Halo days.
Cue remember from halo 3
I said it before about the last layoffs: should've stuck with Microsoft or Activision, better or worse
You know, much like Game of Thrones, I did not get into Destiny when everyone was raving about it, and now that it shit the bed in the last about 4-5% aprox. of it's lifespan I am once again glad I did not get into something everyone was telling me I should get into, because instead of Anger that all my good memories are now tainted by this horrible conclusion, I get to sit back, point, and laugh once again as everyone has meltdowns over the situation.
That actually happens to me a lot.
People say my standards are too high while I reply to them that the irritation I'd have to endure from watching or playing something I think is trash outweighs the chance I'd miss out on something I might like.
I can also just bask in the schadenfreude when that thing goes to shit and everyone else starts agreeing with me in how trash it is.
I'm actually rewatching GoT, the good stuff's still good and worth experiencing, Destiny's not, never was and you can't anyway.
One name: Jack Welch
Sony are a bunch of idiots. How the hell did they not see this coming? Microsoft saw this coming, that is why they did not acquire Bungie when they had the chance. Sony bet big on gaas games praying that coming in so late in the game would actually generate them money. So far, Bungie has only lost them money, cancelled most of their projects, produced Concord, and their only success was Helldivers...which they had no faith in to begin with. Now Sony is out billions, had several mass layoffs, and are going to have a dry couple of years because they put all their chips on Bungie.
Oh and it has finally become obvious that Bungie was ALWAYS the problem. Their management has always been so god damn awful. Even back during Halo, the development cycle for CE and 2 were nightmarish because Bungie could not manage their way out of a paper bag. Both Microsoft and Activision were willing to let them go...and now we know why. They burn through cash and do not make a profit. Glad people are finally finding out what I have known and told people for years.
Rem2 is absolutely goated and underrated fr
Wasn't the purchase of Bungie under Jim Ryan's tenure at Sony?
Why do people keep taking the deal of "We'll pay you in company Stocks" has there every been a situation where that has worked out for anyone?!
Important note about the last two expansions: Lightfall was bad, but *sold well* because hype was at an all-time high. The Final Shape was great, but *sold poorly* because hype was at a (then) all-time *low* minus the small content drop right before.
Destiny’s big problem is that nothing they have is even remotely comprehensible to anyone who hasn’t been playing it half a decade. Between that and the terrible management, I can’t think of a single Destiny player I play with who would *ever* recommend the game to a friend. Ever.
To me, this is why I always bork at the idea of FFXIV having it's own Cataclysm-esq restart.
Ever since the annoucement of Stormblood way back when, early disscussions of new expansions always had some people saying it needs some sort of restart to distance itself from the story thus far as an (weird) way to "move things forward"
Yet I've always felt that's a terrible suggestion for content updates, as I always thought that not only it'll be pretty bad for new players who want to get engrossed in it's story (an literal selling point of the damn game) but also a really bad case of FOMO for just about everybody involved.
Then cut to years later, Destiny 2's bizarre vaulting of old content and the very real possiblity it's gonna stay that way, not only it made things *really* difficult for new players to properly get into the game as it's first half is just nonexistent, but also they don't have much of a chance to engage with the community that is now starting to jump ship as they feel it's on it's way out completly.
So yeah, what a great idea for your story driven live game /s
Isn't Dawntrail the equivalent of a Cataclysm-esque restart?
The main overarching story ended definitively with the previous expansion so Dawntrail is literally the Dawn of a new Trail for the plot to go.
@@MattManDX1 Not really?
You can still play the first 10 years of worth story within the game itself, WoW got rid of their story content until classic came out and from my understanding I heard Guild Wars 2 did something similar (though I also heard they reintegrated the cut stuff back in).
The point is, getting rid of the ability to *actually* play the story is a bad idea for updating your game, both for a player standpoint and a business one also.
Much as I hate the shareholder mindset of "infinte growth" making your game new-player unfriendly by appealing only to vetrerans isn't going to get you that far as there's always the chance of them getting burnt out later on either through finding new content lackluster or a new update ruins their fun for them (ie. microtransactions). Without the ability to draw new people in, you basically screwed of that safety net.
I don't think NDAs can be used to stop someone talking about your criminal activity...they literally become legally moot at that point
The curse of Destiny 2 is wanting to play Destiny yet being unable to forever
Is Pete Parsons the new Bobby Kotick?
It's not just Bobby kotick it's just CEOs in general that do this all the time
Kotick was, unfortunatly, good at his job
Regardless of industry, Management will always be the cause of everyone's problems.
Man, the more time passes, the happier I am that I stopped with Halo Reach.
If I didn't know any better I would say that this was a repeat video of a story previously cover.
But I do and its sad.
If studios keep making moves like this, the gaming industry is going to crash
It's going to anyway. Much like how film has pursued blockbusters- game projects are getting too big, costly, and time consuming while increasing in risk for lower returns. At some point many AAA studios due to changes in available capital or poor releases are going to find themselves with no way to fund themselves going forward.
Asian gaming is doing just great at the moment. It's mostly western gaming that is crashing and burning outside the indie scene. Who's laughing now, game journos from the late 2000s?
>this cope again
Just don't play live service games. Games should have a beginning, middle and end. If it doesn't have all three of these things simply do not bother. You won't miss out on anything worth caring about, I promise!
I agree, tf2 should be shut down
But I like Street Fighter
@@MattManDX1 Street fighter games pretty much all have a single player story, and more importantly they all have offline play. Even if they completely remove the online component street fighter remains fully playable.
@@thecaptain6520 tf2 is not a live service.
@gloomy_gus
- uses the "constant updates" corpospeak as a selling point (even though they don't update it anymore, so it's also false advertising)
- invented lootboxes
- filled to the brim with purchasable cosmetics (muh hats)
Yeah, *totally* not a live service
Did I mention they invented lootboxes because I can't say it enough
How can / Why dont/ Can they, the shareholders or rest of the company sue these CEOs after they do shit like this???
Anyone with the ability to do that and win ar.given golden parachutes when the company goes under.
10 year plan!!!!
I was just thinking about that while watching this video. I wonder how many people remember what the original 10-year plan for destiny was back then.
Man, hearing the lads talking destiny makes me feel stupid for playing destiny for a decade. I hope Pete's golden parachute burns.
18 ads in a 20 minute video, thanks youtube
So...why dont they sue him? And why hasnt someone followed him home?
Hello, Average Juan here with nearly 3k hours on the game and with a few things to say. First, Pat is extremely correct with everything said regarding new player onboarding and story issues. As much as I love this game I actively gatekeep new players from going in on it. Without another player guiding you this game is ridiculously hard to navigate. The state of the game is built for OGs who went in day one and stayed for most of it. I’ve taken various breaks from the game time and time again (as one should with anything honestly) and missing story beats had to be replaced by Lore videos. Even if your OG you can have the wonderful experience of playing with other OGs who pretentiously tell you about their build/destiny1 career whether you asked or not, if not spouting off random meme garbage while fucking up mechanics they’ve seen 100 times.
Edit: TLDR I love this game but it’s community and it’s asinine decision making management is horrible.
Are the menus still a confusing mess? I remember getting stuck very early on in the base game because I couldn't find how to travel to places because the prompt was buried in seemingly unrelated menus
@@sanninjiraiya They have cleaned that slightly. It does require some more reading than most who play FPS would like to do though. Even worse if you are guiding someone through a quest because I'll ask what the quest says and the usual answer I get is "where is that?" or "I don't think I see that"
You know what makes money? Elden Ring.
So... Elden Ring live service game?
(Please don't actually though.)
concord looks like generic shit. if THAT is the only one that got ok'ed, imagine how bad the rest of the cancelled titles are.
Knowing how the bean counters are, it might be that it got ok'd BECAUSE it's generic, and the others got canned because they had too much personality, which is risky. You never know.
it's really a dreadful point when a company's best case scenario involves being absorbed by another.
I think that people, both companies and consumers, should understand that the name of a company, such as Bungie and so forth, becomes more irrelevant as time goes on; what members that were on to work on Halo are not all there to work on Destinty, and pretty much a large portion of different development teams have the same issue of having many of the former employees that worked on the former content hit the can somewhere else and the team having its leaders replaced as much as there general employees. That goes for pretty much all of them, from Blizzard onwards. The ones behind the name are not going to be following the same philosophies and general qualities that the ones before them had, unfortunately.
taking all the profits & budget from your company to buy cars... yeah i think Yuji Naka is gonna get a new cellmate
assuming they can catch him in all his embezzled cars
12:01 So it's like a typical MMO then?
It's not just new players either: they are literally constantly vaulting the new story content. I took a break for like a year and the story was completely incomprehensible to me, and it was impossible to go back and play through what I missed
Destiny has taught me a great deal about the reality of the world. It's one of those situations where I'm just having enough fun to justify buying into it and spending a lot of time playing it (until Shadowkeep, I haven't played in many years), but there's enough bad that it makes me wonder what's going on behind the scenes. I make up some scenarios in my head regarding Bungie, or Activision, or Sony, whatever the most likely culprit is at the time. Problems are constantly discussed within the community, and tempers flare occasionally, but the game is still fun and many people are here for it.
Then a decade later, as I'm looking at all the history of the game and the company laid out in front of me by other people for our convenience, I realize I was wrong. Not only was I wrong, I was so wrong I never would've even considered how wrong I was. It was NEVER okay. It was ALWAYS a shitshow. It was not just a shitshow, it was one of the worst shitshows in the gaming industry for YEARS at a time! It kept being a shitshow to this very day, and it STILL becoming more of a shitshow!!! I couldn't have imagined the problems going on behind the scenes, throughout that whole time I was playing and bouncing between the good and the bad. It was always on fire, and I just couldn't see it.
I swear, money grubbers are only people shady enough yet stupid enough to buy a bunch of armored wagons with zero appreciation for creativity and the people who have it.
So you're telling us luke smiths stocks are being sunset?
Damn you greedy CEOs!
God the days before concord came out. It feels so weird.
No????
@ledzeppelinfan1001 I'll take a noun for 300
When destiny hits it's stride it's fantastic, it's just that it does so every like 3 years.
Bungie leadership spending money on nonsense and cooking the books like this is WILD. I’ve played destiny since the first game and for the first time in like a decade I have to think about what my next lifestyle game is gonna be (please nobody mention warframe 😂 the movement in that game kinda give me motion sickness 😂)
I do *kinda* enjoy the concept of corpo screwing over by another corpo in Sony getting fleeced by Pete Parsons 😂
When these are the examples capitalism gives us who wouldn't want to at least consider trying something else?
Property is theft said the capitalists from their Volkswagens as they proceeded to petition the government to save the corporation.
Communism/Socialism in whatever form we have it hasn't given us many good games
@@raccoonofmotivation20 tetris?
@@raccoonofmotivation20seems like we're moving to a point where capitalism doesn't guarantee games either. It already has given us a culture of churning out incomplete games and charging people again in the form of dlc. Don't get me started on microtransactions...
@@raccoonofmotivation20 social democracy gave the world Pinball Dreams and Max Payne
Not to compare sticks and stones but
Warframes start isn't perfect but at least it's still there
Warframe stays the goat
Destiny deserves no better, but the employees did.
Destiny fans earned the suffering they paid for.
What do you mean there's stuff missing?
Didn't they sell that For MONEY!? Non refunded MONEY!?
Warframe stays on top baby!
I love Destiny and I'll still be there until the end, but Corpa's making it really hard to be hype about it.
That sounds like an addiction more than anything else. Not healthy.
Nah, I like the gameplay and story, it's a lot of fun. The game itself's really good, always has been. One can like something and also be disappointed in leadership decisions. I'll just be sad if something I like a lot ends up crashing and burning.
@@Acrobuster I guess I can kinda get that. When it's literally the only game to scratch that specific itch. As a borderlands fan I too can also appreciate the pain of watching your favorite franchise slowly rot
Lol, yeah same. Borderlands was soo good. Hopefully if they make a 4 it'll be good
@@Acrobuster TTWL was the best to date and I was irrationally pissed when Randy Bo Bandy Opened his mouth and said they were interested in making more and My heart sank because he'd just sung its death song
pete parsons got them biden vibes
I still think Warframe and Destiny aren't very comparable beyond some surface-level similarities, and that's coming from someone who has sunk hundreds of hours into both.
Like Pat said, Destiny is a very controlled and tuned experience, where beyond exploits/unintended interactions, it always seems hesitant to let players have a real power fantasy experience. In Warframe, if you know how to build your loadout, endgame doesn't exist anymore.
That's not even getting into things in Warframe like player-driven economy, non-standard game modes like Railjack, community-made content, etc. Of course, that shotgun-style splattering of content is just as intimidating to players as Destiny's own onboarding.
Not the best metaphor, but I see Destiny as an incredibly huge and beautiful ocean about 3 inches deep, while Warframe is a pond where you can't see the bottom.
I used to enjoy destiny 2 until they announced the vaulting process and then I jumped ship so fast. Never looked back either, ya'll sound miserable
I'm all for shitting on the Bungie upper management but as usual Pat took this as the time to randomly shit on a game that he doesn't like. Comparing it to a game that's really not similar as well and honestly like I know Pat is petty as fuck but this felt really petty even for him and kinda felt like he didn't know what else to contribute to the conversation besides "I was somehow right Destiny is bad cause Bungie CEO's are assholes."
Though I think this is a problem where we're lumping what CEOs of a company are doing with the devs of a game that are just trying to make a game and just shitting on all of them cause fuck it. Which is a shame tbh. People generally never take the time to separate the two.
Yeah...
Never forget the time he used Lance Reddick dying as a chance to shit on Destiny not even a week after it happened
At this point I'd say Destiny is probably bad because some dude keeps extracting cars from Bungie. That's the dude who's shitting on the devs.
I think talking about the context of Destiny's bad decisions (while enjoying himself and giving his own personal take-- Like if you asked me to start talking about Kingdom Hearts or something), and how that also probably affects things, is interesting and relevant enough.
Reminds me of when the EVO scandle dropped and Woolie was devestated as he knew people effected by the news. Meanwhile Pat is cackling and doing his cynical act while Woolie is visibly upset. He will not let an oppertunity to shit on people go no matter the context.
Elon Musk is real world Eren Yeager
The rumbling being a bunch of Teslas who don't recognize pedestrians