The fact that we're even comparing these cameras is amazing to me. The tools we have available to us at these price points are incredble. Great video Blaine!
The funny thing is that the Arri footage needs less attention to look great, but the Sony and Canon will be used on all the projects with no budget for proper grading
That is really what I particularly enjoy. Immediately you can start creating looks with the Arri footage. No time spent getting it to a good starting point.
So I'll ask what others probably will: have you tried this comparison using Resolve Color Management? As much as companies' R709 luts are 'ideal' transforms, they often aren't as technical a transform as people think and incorporate more of the companies' own rendering bias. Whereas something like RCM (or ACES or a CST node) is basically just a mathematical transform based on the known measured color primaries of each space, and can be used with the same tone-mapping algorithms applied (ie. luminance mapping, Davinci pipeline, even IPP2 pipeline). That exposure difference you noted between the FX3 and the Alexa mini is something I strongly suspect is more inherent in the difference between the Arri Lut and the Sony s709 Lut than it is in the actual logspaces' range of data (sLog3 is eerily close to the LogC curve). With all that said, Arri forever lol
I have used CST, and even with that there must be some bias based on whoever developed CST. CST gets me to rec709 in one way, cinematch interprets the rec709 differently than CST. My point is, there is always someone deciding what the rec709 transform will look like when developing transforms for software. Regardless I will at least test cst on the Sony and Alexa to see if the exposure difference is still there.
I second that on ACES or RCM it should be MUCH closer all other things beign the same. Ive matched a LOT of venice/alexa/red shows using ACES and they are extremely close to each other to the point where the only thing that gives it away is the noise pattern.
Yep, I need to dive back into ACES. For some reason I just don’t really like it. I find that it requires me to do the same amount of work as I would have to do just matching the clips on my own in resolve. Maybe I’m doing something wrong.
@@BlaineWestropp1 should be rather simple set project to aces, assign input colorspace(IDT) to each clip according to what it is ( for raw stuff it should just auto-do-it) and select rec709 as your ODT and you should be golden, there isnt much more to it. you just have to know what colorsapce your source is .
Just started using an FX3 and getting skin tones right has been difficult (I'm a smooth brain color gradist). Great video, I'm impressed that you pace has increased without any loss in quality.
I'm curious to see how this would work out if you'd use the Phantom LUTs to do the 709 conversion. I've never liked the default Sony LUTs, and I think colours like the blue hue in the jacket of your friend would definitely match the Alexa's better.
Yep, like everyone here said, the Phantom luts are intentionally made to get as close to the Arri look as possible. That should give you a much better baseline for starting.
I have the c200 and I use CST for canon to arri Alexa color space and the colors are great, brings in bit of character of Alexa. I will say, the difference is noticeable more highly when tested on real jobs. I’m a colorist too, along with DP and I know how much difference there can be.
It's the organic image of the Alexa which makes this camera stand above the Sony and Canon. But if you reduce the midtone detail in Resolve by -30, lift the shadows a tad and push the tint more towards green you can get an image that somewhat enters the same ballpark as the Alexa. That's how I color correct my Sony footage all the time.
Hi Steve....can you share some images/footage of your sony image. I'm about to shoot a short film in a few weeks, and I'm a bit torn between using my Alexa Plus (the older generation). Sony FX9 or Sony FX3
You can't beat that Arri look, it's just so natural, I wish I could afford one 😅I would like to see a comparison with Arri and some Blackmagic camera next time 🙂
great video! Do you think its possible to share some of the alexa vs c70 footage? would love to build a LUT that gets me closer to the LF look. thanks!
Very cool comparison! And I appreciate your use of Papyrus. 😉 Something I've been messing around with lately is using the Arri Log C 709 LUT on top of S-Log3/SGamut3.Cine footage - not even a proper CST or LUTCalc conversion, just applied in FCPX and graded after. The gamma curves of S-Log3 and Log C are very similar, and while it does require a bit of finessing (e.g. you'll get more contrasty-y/punchy colors compared to the standard Sony S-Log3/SG3C or S709 LUTs), I've been impressed with the results.
I’ve done this before. I always try something different just to test things out. Sometimes I test just adding contrast with curves, and saturation. For certain scenarios this has looked good, even though I wouldn’t deliver the footage like that.
Only problem with the iPhone is that you can’t really put a lens on it.. I know there are some companies that have some options but at that point it’s just easier to use a camera.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I was kinda joking. It was a dig at Sony (because I'm a Canon C70 guy). But technically you are correct. The Mini footage is pretty sweet though.
Just like a Leica, you can tell which is the Arri footage right away. The Arri looks natural to me. Maybe the amount of movies I've watched the past decade have been shot on an Alexa, I don't know. But right away the Alexa have a certain character that can't be replicated.
Don't compare Arri to Leica. You can't instantly a Leica and I don't think they are the golden standard now a days (except on build qualities and manual lenses)
I know this is very old video already, but would you do a comparision between alexa mini LF vs FX9? I thought those skintones and jacket colors looks pretty close to FX9, I personally did some image comparision between my fx6 and my buddy's fx9, the fx9 is definetely more of an arri like.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Dang! You still up? its like midnight ET. Thanks man! I am very looking forward to see it, if it is possible bring a fx6 too. Me personally finding to match FX6 and fx9 already taken some efforts. As a fx6 owner as much as I love it's compact design and easy of use, but I still love fx9 image quality more than anything.
I’m due to post another test soon. Alexa still wins for me, is the best to work with and easiest to get the best image, but I’ve done a lot with a lot of cameras since this video and want to post another without showing which is which. Out of ease of carrying around I’ve bright the fx3 around a lot with me lately, and have honed in on some nice looks.
Just wanted to know how was the exposure on the fx3. According on the “” proper exposure method 1.7-2.0+ …? Because it seems that the fx3 exposure it’s a lil bit contrasts and extra saturated but in some shots was fenomenal.
Hey! I don’t recall the exact meter reading on the fx3. The “proper” exposure in these tests was arbitrary. Each camera was just set to the same settings. All 3 are incredible cameras. I’d actually love to do this test again as it’s been awhile and since this test I have looks that match all 3! Maybe I’ll do another test
The Alexa is definitely better... but is it 40 000$ better? It's crazy where we are with our tools nowadays! I remember when I DPd on my first short film... We had a Canon camera with 3 CCD that had the Dynamic Range and the ISO performance of a potatoe and we spent a lot of money to rent that camera because it was the height of what we could get. Now we have cameras like the FX3 that barely costs the price of renting an Alexa Mini and that produces images that can stand its ground. I am just mind blown
Yeah it's amazing how far we have come in just 10 years, and on their own the c70 and fx6 both look amazing (although I'm looking to buy a bmpcc6k for myself) but the Alexa really blows them away in these clips.
Claro, aquí tienes la traducción: Great job. I would like to see the comparison of the three cameras with the same lens (dzofilm vespid 50mm at 2.8). Sony FX3 12-bit ProRes RAW files. Atomos Ninja V.
The head is a manfrotto 502AH. I like the smallness, full frame, and low light abilities of the FX3. I like the internal NDs and the image on the c70. I shoot with my friend who was in this video with the Alexa and canon side by side often and they match up well. Really depends how light you want to pack. I got an fx3 bc I wanted something I could very easily walk around with.
To me it did. Also the comparison isn't really easy to decode since he kept mixing the back and forth footage between 3 cameras which is really complicated for us to know what to expect while comparing.
Have you tried with Color Transforming you Slog3 to Alexa Log? BTW I can never get my Slog footage to look that contrasty. I wonder would happen is you exposed on the FX3 and copied the settings to the alexa
yes i have color transformed. i am actually doing another test with the alexa and the fx3 that will show that transform, but in this video the cameras had basically the same settings, outside of 640 and 800 iso. additionally, i created an fx3 to alexa lut with these two cameras side by side and that is what i primarily use to start the grade.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Fx3 is 4700€! here! FX30 2800€! FF lenses too expensive also. I bought used 16mm 1.4 + 35mm 1.8 OSS and 18-105 OSS for less than 1200€ So that is what I have been rocking even on my A7s OG + 6300. It's a very very tiny set up enough for lifestyle and real estate video and some photo. XLRs and 4 audio channels is huge!! Vintage lenses also vignette on FF. Smartphone fake video blur is killing the FF look for me. S35 all the way. I hope Sony brings an APSC A1 also!
Never tried phantom luts, but I’ve had tons of people tell me to check them out. Also, I think today, any sensors being made can get you a good looking image. There are a lot of other things that go into the price difference.
@@bmefilms6879 that’s because of how he converted it to Rec709. Using phantom luts or leeming luts would have made this comparison extremely close. I bet if he did a blind test you’d have a tough time knowing which one it is.
@@DJILLEE So youre saying, Frankenstein the Sony footage with this lut, that lut and everything else you can find, then you can match it to the unprocessed Arri footage and then... I will have a hard time picking which is which? Got it!
Watching this video now... considering picking up a C70. I am wondering why that final pan is so choppy on all three cameras. Do you think it's something to do with framerate conversion?
@@BlaineWestropp1 Ah ok. Makes sense, also consdering the fx3 has no nd, so you probably didn't use on the other two, right? btw excellent videos, very much enjoy the humor in the editing.
I feel like the C70 always looks amazing in tests, but haven't seen anything other than documentaries that I've been super impressed with... not sure why. The FX3 in wild for what it is and could make images that would fit at the highest level, but Arri all the way for the reasons you said. It just starts out the way you want it and you don't have to make it work.
For me it more about the tone and contrast/midtone detail. The Sony always has more of a video look. The c70 is different in colors but closer in contrasts and skin tones.
yep i agree. in resolve you can push them all around, but still whenever I open some arri footage and take a look it always impresses me the most. I get that feeling with red too.
@@BlaineWestropp1 yeah I’ll love my c70 (especially with the raw update) but I want a red Komodo for projects that need to look exceptional and have time to light and grade.
@@BlaineWestropp1 form factor, red raw and 6k. I would love the c70 to be 6k and one of the reasons for that is that clients often ask for photos of the shoot (screen grabs) and at 6k that is a respectable 21mp. 4K is only 12mp. Huge difference.
For video… I give no Fs about resolution. Sure, maybe 4k gives some extra flexibility, sure 4k is demanded by Netflix and other steaming platforms, but most cameras nowadays shoot 4k, and so do I. One major major difference is when a client asks for stills I 100% of the time tell them that we need to approach the project with a photographer on set, or we roll 8k on a red helium or monstro.
Let’s do it. I want to test all the cameras in a controlled situation. Where we show log, rec709, and matched. And I want to not tell anyone which was which.
I find the Phantom Sony/Arri luts do a remarkable job of as a Sony slog3 correction lut to get it to a really great and flexible starting point. If you haven’t tried them, you should. They’re fantastic. And if you load them into the Sony cam/monitor for reference, you don’t even really need to overexpose the shot by a couple stops like you used to have to do with older sony cams.
I’ve heard good things. I have them, but over the months I have developed 3 LUTs for the FX3 that I always use as a starting point. They were created with Alexa footage side by side and I am very pleased with them and they made me like the FX3 more
@@nickwalker2632 hi sir i have been really in to your content since I just brought the fx3 . just am now very curious to see the how to fx3 would look when gradeing to look like the alexa . how can I get these luts to try out? if you don't mind me asking .
i think here is the difference between all three: Sony for what its worth is a fantastic camera - which I'd only use to film commercials, broadcast, podcasts and interviews. The Canon and Arri have a buttery film look to it, so anything cinematic - Short or feature length films, and documentaries which fit in the cinematic genre. The FX7 is the highest tier ( if you can splurge on it) camera if you have a popping youtube channel. If you shoot films then go with the Arri or Canon. Just my take
What I notice from your footage, and also as a videographer who has Sony and Fujifilm cameras. Sony’s green is just too much, but also the blue is a bit purple. Also the Alexa has more desaturated shadows, something I always need to apply to Sony footage in Resolve. But Sony has gotten good at skin tones now. Just some natural colors you need to tone down in post.
Just my opinion but it could be more insightful for those who don't own a Mini LF if we can play with the footages in post production, because in my eyes, they all look identical except the shots by FX3.
I'm surprised how bad the Sony skin tones are. My experience with Sony was born out here in the color of the jacket, I find their sensors like to push rich blues towards purple or almost a periwinkle. It might be neat to see if Sony's Venice line handles the skin tones better. I thought the Canon C70 looked pretty good but the Alexa was still clearly king.
C70 seems to clean, neutral and accurate. Arri gives it some flavour that looks very nice and the sony is decent but a bit of a mess. What is going on with that exposure?
Great effort! Sorry, but I think without using the same lens at least on all cameras, results regarding color reproduction, sharpness and overall aesthetics are flawed. Just my opinion.
You are definitely right. Judging the cameras against each other is completely impossible with different lenses. That’s why I at least included one shot (me in front of white wall) that kept everything the same.
That was the same lighting I used for the shots of me talking to the camera. There was a forza 500 at very low power keying me, but it was panned off me a bit. An aputure b7 in the lamp, an MC magnated to the lamp on the left, and a spotlight shaped to the drop down portion of the ceiling behind me.
I keep stressing this to people, should over expose the Sony. Around 1 stop, doesn't matter if it's the FX6 or FX9. It will fix a lot of the issues. For example if you look really hard the Sony seems to be pulling the highlights a little better than the LF and C70, but loses detail in the shadows, the over exposure will put the Sony closer on par with the other cameras. You can also see this curve happening in your waveform. Also you don't need to push the saturation too much.
Didn’t push the saturation at all. Also, it’s just weird to have to overexpose the image. I don’t have to over expose the image on other cameras. In certain scenarios overexposing can cause problems especially because the fx3 clips highlights at around 94 IRE. Also, when using the FX3 I never have a really solid idea on if I even have proper exposure let alone trying to expose one stop over. Maybe it’s just the fact that I don’t use it so much and any camera takes a bit of getting to know. When I did use it recently I did find that I was exposing the images to a point where they looked a little too bright on the monitor. Even when pulling up scopes on an external monitor, I have a hard time when I see them so low, but the image looks so bright. Anyways, nice camera that’s easy to move around. Lastly, I have never encountered the fx3 rendering highlights better than the LF!
@@BlaineWestropp1 Look at around 6:25, and compare the 3 cameras, clearly the C70 is the worst of the cameras in highlights, look at the clouds and the buildings fading into the fog. In highlights the LF and FX3 look almost neck and neck but in a couple of the switches the FX3 is looking to pull a tiny bit more in the high sky cloud shadows and the fading of the buildings into the fog but the FX3 in the shadows is a bit darker and is not having the same detail as the LF. Thats why I say over expose just a bit because the camera can handle it. With the Sony FX9 and FX6 in CineEI mode you can rate the camera at a lower ISO so that takes out the guess work in over exposing because ISO level is locked at native values but in monitoring and LUTS it shows in accordance to the ISO value. I know you can't do this in the A7S3 because ISO values actually change and record as you change it I'm not sure about the FX3. If you watch some recovery videos especially comparing the latest Sony Cinema cameras (FX9, FX6, A7S3) to the newest Canon Cinema Cameras (C300 MK3, C500 MK2, R5 which is really bad compared to the other cameras in this group) the Canon cameras quickly fall apart when at 3 stops over but the Sony's can decently recover at about up to 5 stops. Highlight roll off in Canon cameras will quickly start to clip at 2-3 stops while at 3 stops on Sony cameras it will still look like it rolls off. Pushing shadows on the other hand they are usually neck and neck. Compared to Arri cameras though in over exposures the Sony's are pretty close at recovery up to 5 stops but in shadows the Arri easily crushes all these cameras. This is the reason why Arri has a wider dynamic range. But to compensate with the Sony cameras over exposing can help pull and clean the shadows up a bit. I came from the FS7 where over exposure was required and when I jumped to the FX9 and they said you don't need to over expose I was like cool, I shot as is but clearing when I got into grading while I could easily get a good grade I felt the shadows could use some improvement so I went back to over exposing and the results were positive and I would push the grade much easier. Alistar Chapman also recommended over exposing a stop in his test to even though its not need he mentioned it helps to get cleaner shadows and recommends it.
If you didn't label it, one renders slightly magenta, one bluish, another purple-ish. This has more to do with how far consumer cameras have gotten tho.
thats why i do the tests! there are differences for sure in the image. but there are also even more, more important differences that come into play when actually using the cameras and the workflow. all depends on the job of course. the alexa for me.. has some magic.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I swear they all seem so distinct to me; the Canon for instance compared to the Sony - but then I wonder if maybe that’s the result of the color grading workflow of that particular person. I shoot solely on the FX6 currently because I specialize in documentary type stuff .. but I’m wanting to branch out and try a new system for a more high end commercial type work. What are your thoughts about the image coming out of the FX6/3 vs let’s say RED or even Canon cine cameras?
They do all have differences off the camera. The more I use the fx3 the more I like the image. I like red over sony. PL mount, red raw, easier menu system. That being said, internal NDs on the fx6 are nice if you need internal. I haven’t ever used an fx6 though. Had a scarlet-w and used it for years and got incredible footage.
I used offset for years. Now I occasionally use the primaries before the LUT. I know this will piss off most colorists, but this is what I do sometimes.
Well.. I got an fx3. What do you want to shoot? Will this be your main camera? I like the fx3 for its size, full frame sensor, and low light abilities. I like the c70 for its internal NDs and canon raw.
Or, the blackmagic pocket cam. It more similar to what it’s like shooting on an Alexa. Simple. If video is your focus, then blackmagic may be the way to go.
The mini LF really shone in the stylized lighting setups. The others held up very well in the other situations but the LF showed the difference in the first shots of the ending montage
Any cam today is making a good image. My quick TH-cam tests should not be any significant indication about any of these cameras. I’ve shot with a hunch of cameras in professional settings and the Alexa really comes out on top for a lot of reasons. Doesn’t mean the others can’t produce good looking images.
Yeah they all differ a bit, you can push them all around pretty nicely in resolve but I like the way the Alexa responds to those pushes. I do also have slight bias though bc I haven’t gotten so used to it over the years.
ARRI is definetly better at color separation, and looks the most natural of all three. Then you have Canon, wich has a "look" that feel already "cinematic" and last Sony wich is trying to look natural but fail at it.
Phantom is great. The new LUT straight off the camera for the fx3 ain’t horrible. I also created one that I usually start with. But phantom neutral is great.
Nice video, I must say Sony looks horrible compared side by side the the Arri and it should be the case. But makes me try to match this base look with my Sony even harder and more effectively. Wish me luck. One day I will get my hands on one of these!
Matching is tough. I’ve been matching cameras to other cameras for years and I find that if you have a timeline with only one camera it’s best to just create a look that looks good for that specific camera and that specific footage. If you want, I could send you two of the same clips from each camera so you can build looks. Just let me know!
Nothing really, just testing things. In the end of the day doing these tests makes me film some random stuff, try things out, post to TH-cam see what people like. A part from the actual videos I post, I learn a lot about what people like and don’t like, as well as learn new techniques when filming. It’s all just experimentation.
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The fact that we're even comparing these cameras is amazing to me. The tools we have available to us at these price points are incredble. Great video Blaine!
there was no comparison!
Thank you. It is truly amazing.
The funny thing is that the Arri footage needs less attention to look great, but the Sony and Canon will be used on all the projects with no budget for proper grading
That is really what I particularly enjoy. Immediately you can start creating looks with the Arri footage. No time spent getting it to a good starting point.
With the number of times you say Alexa in this video, my homes Amazon Echoes were having an identity crisis
For my taste: Alexa>c70>fx3
But it's incredible how fx3 super small and close to other images!
It is really incredible
So I'll ask what others probably will: have you tried this comparison using Resolve Color Management? As much as companies' R709 luts are 'ideal' transforms, they often aren't as technical a transform as people think and incorporate more of the companies' own rendering bias. Whereas something like RCM (or ACES or a CST node) is basically just a mathematical transform based on the known measured color primaries of each space, and can be used with the same tone-mapping algorithms applied (ie. luminance mapping, Davinci pipeline, even IPP2 pipeline). That exposure difference you noted between the FX3 and the Alexa mini is something I strongly suspect is more inherent in the difference between the Arri Lut and the Sony s709 Lut than it is in the actual logspaces' range of data (sLog3 is eerily close to the LogC curve).
With all that said, Arri forever lol
I have used CST, and even with that there must be some bias based on whoever developed CST. CST gets me to rec709 in one way, cinematch interprets the rec709 differently than CST. My point is, there is always someone deciding what the rec709 transform will look like when developing transforms for software. Regardless I will at least test cst on the Sony and Alexa to see if the exposure difference is still there.
I second that on ACES or RCM it should be MUCH closer all other things beign the same. Ive matched a LOT of venice/alexa/red shows using ACES and they are extremely close to each other to the point where the only thing that gives it away is the noise pattern.
Yep, I need to dive back into ACES. For some reason I just don’t really like it. I find that it requires me to do the same amount of work as I would have to do just matching the clips on my own in resolve. Maybe I’m doing something wrong.
@@BlaineWestropp1 should be rather simple set project to aces, assign input colorspace(IDT) to each clip according to what it is ( for raw stuff it should just auto-do-it) and select rec709 as your ODT and you should be golden, there isnt much more to it. you just have to know what colorsapce your source is .
Gotta get back into experimenting with this. Never went fully in.
Great comparison! I think I'd have to give the Arri Mini the crown, but the C70 was surprisingly close.
There can only be one crown!
Just make side by side split screen. Will be better for us to watch and compare please. Btw, good video comparison.
ya benar
The C70 looks damn good. It has the look of an OLPF'd camera.
I also agree about the teal shadows, I always pull the Sony’s red shadows back towards blue/teal with the curves adjust. So much better!
Yep, me too.
Just started using an FX3 and getting skin tones right has been difficult (I'm a smooth brain color gradist). Great video, I'm impressed that you pace has increased without any loss in quality.
Hey thanks! Gotta finesse those colors. I may have a LUT that could help you out…
@@BlaineWestropp1can I get that LUT too?😅
Everytime you said "Alexa" my amazon alexa was going crazy trying to keep up, lol it was hilarious
You’re not the first to mention this 😂 I actually never considered it, but I don’t have an Amazon Alexa.
Shocked that C70 looked most cinematic and 'neutral' to my eyes, was expecting that from LF
I like the C70, liking it more and more as I use it and hone in on a look.
Shocked? It’s lifted blacks and slightly less saturation .. cinemaaa
I'm curious to see how this would work out if you'd use the Phantom LUTs to do the 709 conversion. I've never liked the default Sony LUTs, and I think colours like the blue hue in the jacket of your friend would definitely match the Alexa's better.
I’ve heard a lot of people talk about phantom luts. Maybe I will give it a try.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I was just about to say.
I was about to make the exact same comment
Yep, like everyone here said, the Phantom luts are intentionally made to get as close to the Arri look as possible. That should give you a much better baseline for starting.
Going to try them asap
I have the c200 and I use CST for canon to arri Alexa color space and the colors are great, brings in bit of character of Alexa. I will say, the difference is noticeable more highly when tested on real jobs. I’m a colorist too, along with DP and I know how much difference there can be.
CST is great. I have been experimenting a lot with it.
It's the organic image of the Alexa which makes this camera stand above the Sony and Canon. But if you reduce the midtone detail in Resolve by -30, lift the shadows a tad and push the tint more towards green you can get an image that somewhat enters the same ballpark as the Alexa. That's how I color correct my Sony footage all the time.
Hi Steve....can you share some images/footage of your sony image. I'm about to shoot a short film in a few weeks, and I'm a bit torn between using my Alexa Plus (the older generation). Sony FX9 or Sony FX3
@@pjsagnia I tried to reply to your comment twice already but it keeps getting deleted for some reason
I am noticing this too… don’t know why that’s happening
@@BlaineWestropp1 Yeah even my replies to Steve asking to send to my email address has been deleted
Don’t know what’s happening…
You can't beat that Arri look, it's just so natural, I wish I could afford one 😅I would like to see a comparison with Arri and some Blackmagic camera next time 🙂
I will do the blackmagic comparison! I’ve been wanting to see it as well. Think I’ll do the 6k pro.
@@BlaineWestropp1 cool, please compare with different iso's with pocket 6k not only native 400 but also 800.
@@VilkanVisions of course!
I'm glad people are respecting what your content more, less stupid hate like before! Always a joy to watch man, thanks
what do you mean?! like when people were commenting on my original test that was only one shot?
great video! Do you think its possible to share some of the alexa vs c70 footage? would love to build a LUT that gets me closer to the LF look. thanks!
I can send you some clips!
Very cool comparison! And I appreciate your use of Papyrus. 😉 Something I've been messing around with lately is using the Arri Log C 709 LUT on top of S-Log3/SGamut3.Cine footage - not even a proper CST or LUTCalc conversion, just applied in FCPX and graded after. The gamma curves of S-Log3 and Log C are very similar, and while it does require a bit of finessing (e.g. you'll get more contrasty-y/punchy colors compared to the standard Sony S-Log3/SG3C or S709 LUTs), I've been impressed with the results.
I’ve done this before. I always try something different just to test things out. Sometimes I test just adding contrast with curves, and saturation. For certain scenarios this has looked good, even though I wouldn’t deliver the footage like that.
Mini, C70 then FX3. JMHO. An iPhone is a good B camera to the FX3. Not a fan of that digital heavy contrast unless it is shot with intention.
Only problem with the iPhone is that you can’t really put a lens on it.. I know there are some companies that have some options but at that point it’s just easier to use a camera.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I was kinda joking. It was a dig at Sony (because I'm a Canon C70 guy). But technically you are correct. The Mini footage is pretty sweet though.
Just like a Leica, you can tell which is the Arri footage right away. The Arri looks natural to me. Maybe the amount of movies I've watched the past decade have been shot on an Alexa, I don't know. But right away the Alexa have a certain character that can't be replicated.
Don't compare Arri to Leica. You can't instantly a Leica and I don't think they are the golden standard now a days (except on build qualities and manual lenses)
Dude you are a champion! Just got a FX3 after shooting Fuji and canon! Subscribed ❤️
I know this is very old video already, but would you do a comparision between alexa mini LF vs FX9? I thought those skintones and jacket colors looks pretty close to FX9, I personally did some image comparision between my fx6 and my buddy's fx9, the fx9 is definetely more of an arri like.
the highlights rolloff and the skintone Alexa mini LF is anther level in this video, no doubt that they are totally different machines.
Yes I can do a comparison between these 2 cameras :)
@@BlaineWestropp1 Dang! You still up? its like midnight ET.
Thanks man! I am very looking forward to see it, if it is possible bring a fx6 too. Me personally finding to match FX6 and fx9 already taken some efforts. As a fx6 owner as much as I love it's compact design and easy of use, but I still love fx9 image quality more than anything.
fx3 native is 640 - also the phantom rec 709 natural lut is much better starting point
I tried the phantom luts. I like them. I made a LUT for the fx3 that is now always my starting point.
I'd say Alexa first, C70 second not by that much, and FX3 third on a distance
I’m due to post another test soon. Alexa still wins for me, is the best to work with and easiest to get the best image, but I’ve done a lot with a lot of cameras since this video and want to post another without showing which is which. Out of ease of carrying around I’ve bright the fx3 around a lot with me lately, and have honed in on some nice looks.
Well done, I enjoyed this video so much, wish there were more like this! Thank you for your work!
Thank you! Working on some more!
THey all look great.. But the Mini LF looks the most natural and cinematic...
Yep
Have you tried cinematch? It’s not going to magically match your footage, but it does the starting point really easily like you talk about
I have tried cinematch, maybe I should take a look at it again
do you have any experience using ACES to get the image from different cameras to look similar? great video btw!
Kinda… but I find it doesn’t really do the trick, or I’m doing it wrong. I’m a DP with knowledge of resolve but not a pro career colorist
Just wanted to know how was the exposure on the fx3. According on the “” proper exposure method 1.7-2.0+ …? Because it seems that the fx3 exposure it’s a lil bit contrasts and extra saturated but in some shots was fenomenal.
Hey! I don’t recall the exact meter reading on the fx3. The “proper” exposure in these tests was arbitrary. Each camera was just set to the same settings. All 3 are incredible cameras. I’d actually love to do this test again as it’s been awhile and since this test I have looks that match all 3! Maybe I’ll do another test
The arri is amazing…
That c70 was super close in regards of exposure….
The Alexa is definitely better... but is it 40 000$ better? It's crazy where we are with our tools nowadays! I remember when I DPd on my first short film... We had a Canon camera with 3 CCD that had the Dynamic Range and the ISO performance of a potatoe and we spent a lot of money to rent that camera because it was the height of what we could get. Now we have cameras like the FX3 that barely costs the price of renting an Alexa Mini and that produces images that can stand its ground.
I am just mind blown
Love this. I always find when pressure is put on, whether financial or otherwise, we create the best stuff.
Yeah it's amazing how far we have come in just 10 years, and on their own the c70 and fx6 both look amazing (although I'm looking to buy a bmpcc6k for myself) but the Alexa really blows them away in these clips.
Claro, aquí tienes la traducción:
Great job. I would like to see the comparison of the three cameras with the same lens (dzofilm vespid 50mm at 2.8). Sony FX3 12-bit ProRes RAW files. Atomos Ninja V.
I’ll have to arrange this test!
what tripod head is your buddy using at 5:45? looks good for travel. also would you prefer the c70 or fx3 for traveling with?
The head is a manfrotto 502AH. I like the smallness, full frame, and low light abilities of the FX3. I like the internal NDs and the image on the c70. I shoot with my friend who was in this video with the Alexa and canon side by side often and they match up well. Really depends how light you want to pack. I got an fx3 bc I wanted something I could very easily walk around with.
Great comparison. It's all about skin tones. Impressed with the C70 here but it still doesn't feel like the LF
To me it did. Also the comparison isn't really easy to decode since he kept mixing the back and forth footage between 3 cameras which is really complicated for us to know what to expect while comparing.
Always loved canon colors.
Another comparison is in the works!
Have you tried with Color Transforming you Slog3 to Alexa Log? BTW I can never get my Slog footage to look that contrasty. I wonder would happen is you exposed on the FX3 and copied the settings to the alexa
yes i have color transformed. i am actually doing another test with the alexa and the fx3 that will show that transform, but in this video the cameras had basically the same settings, outside of 640 and 800 iso. additionally, i created an fx3 to alexa lut with these two cameras side by side and that is what i primarily use to start the grade.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I preordered the FX30, I will be happy if I can get 80% FX3 at normal ISO. Very exited!
Cool let me know how you like it. Why did you go with the 30 over the 3?
@@BlaineWestropp1 Fx3 is 4700€! here! FX30 2800€! FF lenses too expensive also. I bought used 16mm 1.4 + 35mm 1.8 OSS and 18-105 OSS for less than 1200€ So that is what I have been rocking even on my A7s OG + 6300. It's a very very tiny set up enough for lifestyle and real estate video and some photo. XLRs and 4 audio channels is huge!! Vintage lenses also vignette on FF. Smartphone fake video blur is killing the FF look for me. S35 all the way. I hope Sony brings an APSC A1 also!
I'd like to see the same test with FX3 + Phantom luts vs Arri. Honestly, with the price difference these two shouldn't be even this close.
Never tried phantom luts, but I’ve had tons of people tell me to check them out. Also, I think today, any sensors being made can get you a good looking image. There are a lot of other things that go into the price difference.
they were not close. Sony destroyed his skin!
@@bmefilms6879 that’s because of how he converted it to Rec709. Using phantom luts or leeming luts would have made this comparison extremely close. I bet if he did a blind test you’d have a tough time knowing which one it is.
Converted to rec709 with the manufacturers luts..
@@DJILLEE So youre saying, Frankenstein the Sony footage with this lut, that lut and everything else you can find, then you can match it to the unprocessed Arri footage and then... I will have a hard time picking which is which? Got it!
Watching this video now... considering picking up a C70. I am wondering why that final pan is so choppy on all three cameras. Do you think it's something to do with framerate conversion?
hmmm good question. im not sure what happened there. possibly I had a very narrow shutter instead of using NDs to avoid color shifts.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Ah ok. Makes sense, also consdering the fx3 has no nd, so you probably didn't use on the other two, right? btw excellent videos, very much enjoy the humor in the editing.
Thank you. And yes.. it was the shutter. Even in the first shot you can see no ND on the lens.. so 100% had a narrow shutter on those exteriors!
Have you looked into the phantom luts?
No but I’ve heard a lot about them, time to take a look.
can we add up red komodo for comparison? your color workflow is seamless.
Would love to. I have a red scarlet-w that may be in the next test
Sony's colors are always crunchy. And in mixed lighting, forget it.
I’m wondering if it’s the noise reduction in camera that is influencing that a little bit.
@@BlaineWestropp1 oh, I think you nailed it.
This video made my Amazon Alexa go crazy😂 but love your analysis on this!
😂😂
I feel like the C70 always looks amazing in tests, but haven't seen anything other than documentaries that I've been super impressed with... not sure why. The FX3 in wild for what it is and could make images that would fit at the highest level, but Arri all the way for the reasons you said. It just starts out the way you want it and you don't have to make it work.
yep. c70 is very nice, especially raw. Alexa is definitely my preference, but I enjoy using c70.
For me it more about the tone and contrast/midtone detail. The Sony always has more of a video look. The c70 is different in colors but closer in contrasts and skin tones.
yep i agree. in resolve you can push them all around, but still whenever I open some arri footage and take a look it always impresses me the most. I get that feeling with red too.
@@BlaineWestropp1 yeah I’ll love my c70 (especially with the raw update) but I want a red Komodo for projects that need to look exceptional and have time to light and grade.
I also want a red Komodo, shot with it the other day and love it.
@@BlaineWestropp1 form factor, red raw and 6k. I would love the c70 to be 6k and one of the reasons for that is that clients often ask for photos of the shoot (screen grabs) and at 6k that is a respectable 21mp. 4K is only 12mp. Huge difference.
For video… I give no Fs about resolution. Sure, maybe 4k gives some extra flexibility, sure 4k is demanded by Netflix and other steaming platforms, but most cameras nowadays shoot 4k, and so do I. One major major difference is when a client asks for stills I 100% of the time tell them that we need to approach the project with a photographer on set, or we roll 8k on a red helium or monstro.
I love how you’ve analyzed this.
Thank you!
Hey. Great job dude. Next time, hit me up for the Blackmagic 6K footage to shoot along side these things. See you on the next shoot brotha.
Let’s do it. I want to test all the cameras in a controlled situation. Where we show log, rec709, and matched. And I want to not tell anyone which was which.
@@BlaineWestropp1 sounds rad. Get Ryan on the horn. Let's get it done.
I find the Phantom Sony/Arri luts do a remarkable job of as a Sony slog3 correction lut to get it to a really great and flexible starting point. If you haven’t tried them, you should. They’re fantastic. And if you load them into the Sony cam/monitor for reference, you don’t even really need to overexpose the shot by a couple stops like you used to have to do with older sony cams.
I’ve heard good things. I have them, but over the months I have developed 3 LUTs for the FX3 that I always use as a starting point. They were created with Alexa footage side by side and I am very pleased with them and they made me like the FX3 more
@@BlaineWestropp1 How would one go about getting ones hands on these lol. I have the FX3
Message me on ig. @wstrpp
@@BlaineWestropp1 will do
@@nickwalker2632 hi sir i have been really in to your content since I just brought the fx3 . just am now very curious to see the how to fx3 would look when gradeing to look like the alexa . how can I get these luts to try out? if you don't mind me asking .
C70 looks a bit easier to get to looking like a Arri 🤔 Anyhow, I actually like the image coming out of the canon with their lut added here
Yep this is true
Arri king of color still. Hard to beat.
Yep
insteresting how alexa has a slight film look (greenish blueish tint)
Yes, I quite like it.
i think here is the difference between all three: Sony for what its worth is a fantastic camera - which I'd only use to film commercials, broadcast, podcasts and interviews. The Canon and Arri have a buttery film look to it, so anything cinematic - Short or feature length films, and documentaries which fit in the cinematic genre. The FX7 is the highest tier ( if you can splurge on it) camera if you have a popping youtube channel. If you shoot films then go with the Arri or Canon. Just my take
Totally agree with you. Do you mean FX9?
What I notice from your footage, and also as a videographer who has Sony and Fujifilm cameras. Sony’s green is just too much, but also the blue is a bit purple. Also the Alexa has more desaturated shadows, something I always need to apply to Sony footage in Resolve. But Sony has gotten good at skin tones now. Just some natural colors you need to tone down in post.
definitely need to tune in post. nowadays you can get em all lookin good.,
Perfect video ❤
Thank you :)
Just my opinion but it could be more insightful for those who don't own a Mini LF if we can play with the footages in post production, because in my eyes, they all look identical except the shots by FX3.
I am able to provide footage to test if you are interested just let me know.
I'm surprised how bad the Sony skin tones are. My experience with Sony was born out here in the color of the jacket, I find their sensors like to push rich blues towards purple or almost a periwinkle. It might be neat to see if Sony's Venice line handles the skin tones better. I thought the Canon C70 looked pretty good but the Alexa was still clearly king.
I think honestly you can get them all to a good point in resolve, but there really is something just magical about the Alexa.
C70 seems to clean, neutral and accurate. Arri gives it some flavour that looks very nice and the sony is decent but a bit of a mess. What is going on with that exposure?
Do you mean the Sony exposure being lower?
@@BlaineWestropp1 yes. Is this why don’t tends to do better on highlight? Are they always underexposing?
I don’t think so. I just think at matched settings the Sony is darker.
Well that's what I get for watching this video with my laptop beside my Echo Dot. Damn thing had a seizure.
It was inevitable..
Your hair looks better with the Mini LF for sure, the little swing in the front ;)
😂
Great effort!
Sorry, but I think without using the same lens at least on all cameras, results regarding color reproduction, sharpness and overall aesthetics are flawed. Just my opinion.
You are definitely right. Judging the cameras against each other is completely impossible with different lenses. That’s why I at least included one shot (me in front of white wall) that kept everything the same.
What lights did you use to light the still frame for this video?
Which still frame? The thumbnail?
@@BlaineWestropp1 Yes, the shot of the Arri camera...
That was the same lighting I used for the shots of me talking to the camera. There was a forza 500 at very low power keying me, but it was panned off me a bit. An aputure b7 in the lamp, an MC magnated to the lamp on the left, and a spotlight shaped to the drop down portion of the ceiling behind me.
I forget how bad the skin tones look on Sony until I see them next to an Alexa clip
With a little work in resolve the Sony is looking good
for some reason, when using Resolve, I seem to get more accurate colors when I export MP4 vs .MOV
Interesting…
Sorry, but C70 is freaking amazing for a 1/3 of the price of that of the Alexa, and it looks better. Love Canon's color science.
It is wildly good. I’ve used it a bunch and love the image.
Obvs the Alexa wins but damn the dr in the shadows for the canon really help to make it the closest (in my SUBJECTIVE TH-cam opinion)
yes i agree. the canon is looking nice. now it has raw!
ARRI done it again !
We don’t know each other but I think today I ran into you in Williamsburg 😊
Love this. Tell me more.
I keep stressing this to people, should over expose the Sony. Around 1 stop, doesn't matter if it's the FX6 or FX9. It will fix a lot of the issues. For example if you look really hard the Sony seems to be pulling the highlights a little better than the LF and C70, but loses detail in the shadows, the over exposure will put the Sony closer on par with the other cameras. You can also see this curve happening in your waveform. Also you don't need to push the saturation too much.
Didn’t push the saturation at all. Also, it’s just weird to have to overexpose the image. I don’t have to over expose the image on other cameras. In certain scenarios overexposing can cause problems especially because the fx3 clips highlights at around 94 IRE. Also, when using the FX3 I never have a really solid idea on if I even have proper exposure let alone trying to expose one stop over. Maybe it’s just the fact that I don’t use it so much and any camera takes a bit of getting to know. When I did use it recently I did find that I was exposing the images to a point where they looked a little too bright on the monitor. Even when pulling up scopes on an external monitor, I have a hard time when I see them so low, but the image looks so bright. Anyways, nice camera that’s easy to move around. Lastly, I have never encountered the fx3 rendering highlights better than the LF!
To add to this, when I was shooting when the images looked bright on the monitor, they looked beautiful once graded in resolve.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Look at around 6:25, and compare the 3 cameras, clearly the C70 is the worst of the cameras in highlights, look at the clouds and the buildings fading into the fog. In highlights the LF and FX3 look almost neck and neck but in a couple of the switches the FX3 is looking to pull a tiny bit more in the high sky cloud shadows and the fading of the buildings into the fog but the FX3 in the shadows is a bit darker and is not having the same detail as the LF. Thats why I say over expose just a bit because the camera can handle it. With the Sony FX9 and FX6 in CineEI mode you can rate the camera at a lower ISO so that takes out the guess work in over exposing because ISO level is locked at native values but in monitoring and LUTS it shows in accordance to the ISO value. I know you can't do this in the A7S3 because ISO values actually change and record as you change it I'm not sure about the FX3. If you watch some recovery videos especially comparing the latest Sony Cinema cameras (FX9, FX6, A7S3) to the newest Canon Cinema Cameras (C300 MK3, C500 MK2, R5 which is really bad compared to the other cameras in this group) the Canon cameras quickly fall apart when at 3 stops over but the Sony's can decently recover at about up to 5 stops. Highlight roll off in Canon cameras will quickly start to clip at 2-3 stops while at 3 stops on Sony cameras it will still look like it rolls off. Pushing shadows on the other hand they are usually neck and neck. Compared to Arri cameras though in over exposures the Sony's are pretty close at recovery up to 5 stops but in shadows the Arri easily crushes all these cameras. This is the reason why Arri has a wider dynamic range. But to compensate with the Sony cameras over exposing can help pull and clean the shadows up a bit. I came from the FS7 where over exposure was required and when I jumped to the FX9 and they said you don't need to over expose I was like cool, I shot as is but clearing when I got into grading while I could easily get a good grade I felt the shadows could use some improvement so I went back to over exposing and the results were positive and I would push the grade much easier. Alistar Chapman also recommended over exposing a stop in his test to even though its not need he mentioned it helps to get cleaner shadows and recommends it.
from what i see, arri is the way, and the only way
There really is only one champ.
If you didn't label it, one renders slightly magenta, one bluish, another purple-ish. This has more to do with how far consumer cameras have gotten tho.
They really have come a long way
Is it in the zeitgeist to drink something at the beginning of a vid? I see it more often in the last 2 years.
Yes, yes it is.
I feel like the Sony could benefit from a global hue rotation. Sony’s reds are orange, blues are purple, and greens are blueish.
May need to test this in resolve. Never really thought about that. Thanks for the idea.
@@BlaineWestropp1 Absolutely! Thank you for the awesome videos!
@@zechenwei1139 thank you!
I often wonder if there’s really much of a difference in image camera to camera or if it’s 99% grading and all in my head 😂😂
thats why i do the tests! there are differences for sure in the image. but there are also even more, more important differences that come into play when actually using the cameras and the workflow. all depends on the job of course. the alexa for me.. has some magic.
@@BlaineWestropp1 I swear they all seem so distinct to me; the Canon for instance compared to the Sony - but then I wonder if maybe that’s the result of the color grading workflow of that particular person. I shoot solely on the FX6 currently because I specialize in documentary type stuff .. but I’m wanting to branch out and try a new system for a more high end commercial type work. What are your thoughts about the image coming out of the FX6/3 vs let’s say RED or even Canon cine cameras?
They do all have differences off the camera. The more I use the fx3 the more I like the image. I like red over sony. PL mount, red raw, easier menu system. That being said, internal NDs on the fx6 are nice if you need internal. I haven’t ever used an fx6 though. Had a scarlet-w and used it for years and got incredible footage.
You shouldn't correct your exposure with gain, because it changes the contrast. You should use offset instead
I used offset for years. Now I occasionally use the primaries before the LUT. I know this will piss off most colorists, but this is what I do sometimes.
@@BlaineWestropp1 doing primaries befroe the lut is 100% correct. anyone who thinks different doesnt understand!
@@sammorganmoore I use HDR wheels most nowadays!
@@BlaineWestropp1 as long as its befroe the lut it works :)
@@sammorganmoore of course
Feels like you didn’t process the Canon C70 the same. Ive seen a C70 vs Alexa video and they looked WAY closer than how you’ve got them here.
Didn’t do any adjustments apart from exposure and WB on any of the cameras.
The speedbooster does shift color a little bit . Need more compensation for that
Are you sure it shifts color?
Bro, u got to tell me where you got these soundtracks. For real.
Any music in here is from artlist.io
Fx3 or c70? Would you recommend
Well.. I got an fx3. What do you want to shoot? Will this be your main camera? I like the fx3 for its size, full frame sensor, and low light abilities. I like the c70 for its internal NDs and canon raw.
@@BlaineWestropp1 realizing the cost isn’t worth it. I’m unpaid and hobbyist. Thinking fx30 👀 nothing similar on canon end
Go with the fx3 or 30
Or, the blackmagic pocket cam. It more similar to what it’s like shooting on an Alexa. Simple. If video is your focus, then blackmagic may be the way to go.
@@BlaineWestropp1 thanks! Fx30 or BMPCC6K? The only knock is lack of AF?
The mini LF really shone in the stylized lighting setups. The others held up very well in the other situations but the LF showed the difference in the first shots of the ending montage
No further questions:)
😇
Man. People keep saying Sony fixed their color but YUGH.
I now have confidence in fixing it up in resolve. Took a few months of experimenting.
add please bmcc 2.5k to comparision
I’d love to, I don’t have one but I suppose I could rent one and test it out.
In resolve select key frame option near scopes and a right ➡️ if you select it you can divide the controls into 2
Wait, divide which controls? The HDR?
Hope one day, I will get one Alexa mini Lf without eating bread every meals.
You will 😎
@@BlaineWestropp1 my pleasure ❤️
:)
Mini LF have much better Colours and Dinamic Range!
It is really stunning
Well sure we all prefer the Alexa footage, but they really shouldn't be this close... Not at the prices of these cameras
Any cam today is making a good image. My quick TH-cam tests should not be any significant indication about any of these cameras.
I’ve shot with a hunch of cameras in professional settings and the Alexa really comes out on top for a lot of reasons. Doesn’t mean the others can’t produce good looking images.
arri and canon produce accurate red, but sony's red is over saturated
canon just amazing😱
Yeah they all differ a bit, you can push them all around pretty nicely in resolve but I like the way the Alexa responds to those pushes. I do also have slight bias though bc I haven’t gotten so used to it over the years.
alexa is the best by far
😇
niiiiiiiiiice :)
thanks so much! :)
ARRI is definetly better at color separation, and looks the most natural of all three. Then you have Canon, wich has a "look" that feel already "cinematic" and last Sony wich is trying to look natural but fail at it.
Since this video I have them all matched up nicely. The c70 is particularly nice when shooting clog2!
Actually why we are doing this tests..? to prove which is best..? looks like you are comparing Expensive Mercedes Benz with a normal cars.
Just testing
Arri looks amazing as it should. Regular Sony LUTs are absolute trash. Horrible skin from those LUTs. Phantom LUTs are where it’s at!
Phantom is great. The new LUT straight off the camera for the fx3 ain’t horrible. I also created one that I usually start with. But phantom neutral is great.
Cetaphil is a great skin cleanser
😂😂
Nice video, I must say Sony looks horrible compared side by side the the Arri and it should be the case. But makes me try to match this base look with my Sony even harder and more effectively. Wish me luck. One day I will get my hands on one of these!
Matching is tough. I’ve been matching cameras to other cameras for years and I find that if you have a timeline with only one camera it’s best to just create a look that looks good for that specific camera and that specific footage. If you want, I could send you two of the same clips from each camera so you can build looks. Just let me know!
@@BlaineWestropp1 that would be amazing, and very helpful!
Will get you a link soon!
What conclusions are meant to be derived from these comparisons?
Nothing really, just testing things. In the end of the day doing these tests makes me film some random stuff, try things out, post to TH-cam see what people like. A part from the actual videos I post, I learn a lot about what people like and don’t like, as well as learn new techniques when filming. It’s all just experimentation.
Not bad for a 14 years old sensor
Not bad at all. The best in fact!
I have the Canon C-70 and the Sony FX3 I can't remember why I don't have the Arri .....oh yeah $$$$$$$
😂😇
this is an incorrect comparison of cameras, it was important to do all the tests on one lens.....!!!!!!!!!!
I’ll make one with the same lens, just for you!
@5:21 I actually liked Canon the best.
I’ll tell my friend who supplied the c70 😇
Sony looks soo digital.. like a super smartphone.
Would be nice if you could turn down internal sharpness, but the more I use the camera the more I think it’s really really good.
Arri > RED > Canon > Sony for me
I agree
hold on.. you own a mini LF????
yo of course mini LF is better..
Yes!
@@BlaineWestropp1 damn!
It’s a crazy thing
ACES
I still haven't adopted ACES. I just dont love it!