Do you know when I said that on the Hornby Forum I got loads of people moaning at me. Then you get the comparisons with German and US models which are more expensive. When other manufacturers can make better models for less then it shows how expensive they are. Incidentally, I bought the sound one, ordered it about a year ago and the front bogie derails on my layout. Interestingly Sam, considering that all the rivet counters complain about your test track neither this nor the P2 derailed during your reviews, but it did regularly on my and others layouts. So your layout can't be that bad.
Awesome video Sam, The reason steam turbines don't work on locomotives is that at High speed they're great, but at low speed, they're terrible. This is why all US Steam Turbine locomotives were never successful. At Least William Stainer's attempt was somewhat successful.
Sam, now you have officially become a rivet counter, the lights on this model need comment. As it is an LMS engine, the lamps should be black cased, not crimson lake. (The streamlined Coronation class locos in crimson lake livery carried this colour with a streamline fairing but I have not seen reference to the non streamlined locos using these . The lamps themselves had a handle at the top running front to back. The fitted ones on the model have the gap under the handle filled in - the ones available from ModelU, DCC Concepts and the like are able to model them accurately. These are very noticeable errors, and cost nothing to get right. As for brightness, loco lamps were identification only not illumination, so they should be dull almost yellowish for the forward white aspect. The front lights as fitted are for a Class A express passenger train, which this usually was. The additional lamp on the smoke box is occasionally useful, but never used in conjunction with both the (fitted) outer buffer beam lights (except when hauling the monarch when a lamp in the centre of the buffer beam is also used - 4 lamps total). So, unless one can turn off the buffer beam lamps individually, the train will always carry wrong lamp codes except on express passenger trains. As for the lamp on the tender, it would be present (and displaying red) only if the loco were travelling chimney first light engine. The instructions said it would be red in that direction. On the video, when you said reverse it still seemed to be the same colour as forward - white. If travelling tender first, as Turbo was incapable of moving much beyond itself in reverse, it should carry the light engine white lamp code of one in the centre of the buffer beam. The one photo of the rear of the class’ tender which I have seen shows the top lamp iron to be where Hornby have placed the lamp. If white, that is a class B ordinary passenger working. Given the power in reverse that is very unlikely in reality. Personal opinion, even as an LMS tragic, the loco does not appeal aesthetically, and certainly not for the price - even the retailers’ discounted one. Thanks again for an excellent review. Very balanced.
They should’ve made the W1’s boiler Diecast. Seriously, the boiler cladding shape of the W1 just screams “Diecast Metal Damnit!!” But Hornby wanted to be cheap and use plastic. Maybe one day they will reissue the W1 with a Diecast boiler.
Wow, I'm incredibly impressed. I was secretly hoping you would review it, having heard that Hattons got them last week. Owning a Dublo Scotsman, the finish looks absolutely stunning. I think to be better value the cab should be die-cast like my Scotsman. The lights however are extremely impressive. I actually prefer it over the firebox glow since I spend more time looking at the loco front rather than the cab. The tender lamp and the optional smokebox lamp are nice features and I love to see it on future models. Yes, it may not be the most effective, but seeing it occasionally makes me feel quite good. I fit lamps to almost all locomotives so this one having them pre-fitted, especially a steam locomotive is very impressive. Only nicks for me are the slight quality issues and the light leakage foam which looks very bad now that you mentioned it. Performance wise, I think there could be room for improvement. My Dublo Scotsman can pull 6 Pullmans without issues on second radius (I don't know the exact weight sadly) but considering the Princess is larger, I guess it's heavier. A truly excellent model, if slightly overpriced. 220£ would feel alright at the retailers (It's still much much better value than the Hush Hush for me which isn't that far off price wise), but for now I'm waiting for the BR Apple Green J36 limited edition to drop since I pre-ordered it. Great review of a truly stunning loco.
Beautiful locomotive but still not as beautiful as the American PRR S2 turbine. Kidding, I'm kind of jealous this thing isn't available in N-scale. What you said about people buying this thing even though it's not appropriate for the era or railroad they are modelling is 100% on point though. Hornby is probably raising the price because they know there is a wider audience for this model than just people modeling the prototype era and locales this thing was used in and on.
That engine looks very beautiful. Reminds me of the Pennsy S2 Turbine. Also an interesting way to make the lights work on the tender. Guess DCC would help a little better with the lights as they’ll be on constant and can have brightness adjusted. Could also be faulty lights. Good review as always. I will say I am jealous that Hornby have now started using the same box that Broadway Limited Imports used to use and now BLI has started using the box Hornby used to use. Smaller models work in that type of box but an $800 all die cast big boy should be in a sturdy cardboard type box with true foam protection, not the flimsy card stock with styrofoam lining and no foam at all protecting the blister holding the engine.
I've been into model railways/ tramways for about 50 years but the prices now are crazy. I as a pensioner live on £500 a month , how can any independent modeller afford something like that
I agree with you - I do have to ask whether these prices are really necessary. Also, as nice as the extra features are, I wonder if the model would be better without them, and sold more cheaply? Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Yes, I agree with you, but most model hobbies are very expensive these days. Just plastic model kits are pretty costly. I'd expect a newly tooled, well-running, and nicely detailed loco to be around 200 quid these days. The thing that irks me the most is selling old models at similar prices. Tooling costs should be recovered in early runs, then re-runs should be cheaper. I feel your pain. As an LMS guy, I'd love one of these - but can't afford it this year. I blew my budget on an Accurascale class 31.
The reality is manufacturers are not a charity, they have to make a profit and will sell at whatever price people will pay, regardless of those on lower incomes., and sorry to say those that can't afford the prices are not their target market. We are in fact very lucky in the UK. If you compare Hornby and other UK manufacturers with Piko, Roco, Märklin, Trix, Brawa, Fleischmann etc you will see most of their prices are nearly double what we pay in the UK. In reality model railway prices have risen less than many other manufactured goods.
Fellow pensioner here; there is no way I can justify these hideous prices. But, do I need a Turbomotive? Well, possibly. But, if you think about it, all it is is a Princess Royal minus its Walschaerts valve gear plus a bit of casing covering the forward and reverse turbines. So, take a Lizzie remove its valve gear and cylinders and you have a choice of fashioning your own casings from metal or even, as I do, from balsa wood soaked in wood hardener from a woodrot repair kit and sanded really smooth. I have used the technique over many years to produce sports car bodies not made by "cheaper" makers. Follow with 6 to 8 thin coats of paint, hand rubbed, and apply lining via a bow pen or lining tool. Result: one Turbomotive at a bargain price!
Hi Sam, a couple of points from an LMS anorak. You say a couple of times this was rebuilt as a standard Princess, but actually Princess Anne, as it was called, was also unique. It had a more Duchess like steam chest and cylinders. It is good that the radiator flap at the front moves because on the real thing it would be up when running but down when idle.
You might be able to tell me if the train classification lamps are illuminated in daytime running like so many expect from what many here call "headlights".
@@johnd8892 the loco's lamps should be lit at all times while running for working through tunnels. they are purely for marking the train class and each end of the train but provide no illumination. Modern image traction will have the high intensity lights fitted which provide some degree of illumination but i'm not sure how they compare to a car headlight.
Hey Sam! Great and honest review here, as always. I do have a tip for you. I own one of the Dublo range Scotsman centenary models, which have diecast bodies. I had to run it in for longer at a slightly higher speed to fully loosen up the mechanism (roughly 45 mins in each direction, at 55-60 speed). Once I had done that, it performed exactly the same as my main range A1 with decent crawl and good torque. The more I ran it, the more it started to match my other Hornby locos in performance. Hope this helps!
Many thanks my friend - and thanks for these tips... might as well give this some more running and see what happens then, cheers for that, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
hi sam , i am trying to build a model loco from scratch, as from where i belong ...the concept of model railroading simply doesn't exist..so sourcing loco , rolling stock and tracks is very difficult. I bought a bachmann "Rail cheif" set for 380 £ from amazon , but the quality is not worth the price ..so i decided to build my own loco ,including the motorizing unit along with the gears . ill be using a resin 3d printer to print all of the parts, but i am not sure which resin to use , as some resin shink too much . Your last video gave me the inspiration to try it my self . So in the next followup video of the project you are working on , can u please inculde what type of resin u will be usin and the what type of motor u will use to power the loco ...thanks for making such amazing content ❤
The bag of plastic parts is clearly a new common accessories pack - it's identical to the one that came in the P2 boxes, and I imagine the brake rigging is standardised for any Pacific locomotive. Anyone thinking of buying this for a DCC layout should add the price tag for Hornby's new 21-pin decoder too - ouch! You're into Broadway Limited kind of money already!
Sam, about a year ago we in the US got our own steam turbine locomotive from BLI, the PRR S2, I paid $800 for it, mostly made of brass. I would love to see your thoughts on one, especially after reviewing this locomotive.
Thanks for the review Sam it's a lovely model but too expensive. I saw another review where the front was a bit warped and the front bufferbeam was sloping upwards. I think I see it on this one too. Maybe it's because of the sponge? All the best.
Typical of Hornby to create a heavy model at last & then they go & skimp on the motor's horse-power! I think I'll stick to my trusty old Tri-ang-Hornby Princess. She may be a little noisy at 60 ++ years old but she still looks a treat & runs like there's no tomorrow! Turbo...eat yet heart out! & ;good luck if you decide to re-spray the Turbo-Tender to match the front end colour lol. Great video thanks Sam. You have come a long way with your presentation since the early days on your channel...just sooooo professional & thorough these days. The picture & sound quality has got so much better. Keep up the good work my son. Cheers. A.
Hornby's prices have been really skyrocketing lately. I was discouraged from getting my own APT set, but luckily I was able to pick one up pre-owned from Hattons for almost half of the price. What a steal!
Meanwhile in China model railway companies are making DCC fitted China Railways diesels with sound, smoke units, cab lights, dashboard lights, engine room lights, bogie inspection lights and working roof fans for under 200 pounds. I know it sounds crazy but it's true. Oh and the whole body is diecast too.
About the front coupling, I think it might just be a spare? Given the very small reverse turbine you'd never run a train tender-first with it so that mean there's less demand for a front coupling? Just my conjecture. Fantastic video as always! :)
hi sam. going to keep this short and bitter sweet. back lamp i noticed that while driving forward it lit up white when it should be red and in revers it lit up red when it should be white. hornby shoddy finished product.
I think you miss the point about price. The selling price of an item isn't just what it cost to make or what it's worth, it's about what the market will pay. (Apple products and designer labels being classic examples). Hornby know they will sell a lot of these at that price, maxing out what revenue they can, then when sales slow down, will reduce the price. That's how marketing works. Also bear in mind Hornby are on track to lose 5 million pounds this year. I'm sure if you have an original idea or solution how they can lower prices while losing money they would be delighted to hear it.
Washing machines sell by the million so costs spread by the million, I used to see the turbo at Stafford on Saturday mornings, roughly 11.15 off to Liverpool, grime covered, blinkers fitted, as i was about 11 or 12 years old it really intreaged me, I yearned to see it and everything else in full LMS livery and now I can, I'm 86, not in good health and I absolutely love it and all the beautiful LMS stuff that modelling allows, thank you to all manufacturers and to you Sam for showing all the stuff that you do Pete
I'm an American (Texan). At RRP (not counting shipping and keeping VAT, cuz some shops exclude it for overseas orders, some don't) it comes out to $323 USD (21 hrs of work for me before taxes). For around that price (give or take a couple bucks & still excluding shipping) I can buy: Approximately 1,300 rounds of 9mm ammunition About 40 meals from various fast food restaurants (Subway footlong sandwiches, entire pizzas, hamburgers w/ drink & fries [chips for yall Brits]) A decent pistol chambered in .22LR and about 650 rounds of said ammunition (did buy the pistol as a birthday present to myself) 4,875 rounds of .22LR ammunition (very underpowered round. More for fun/training at a shooting range than self defense) With an additional 20-30 bucks I can buy a very basic AR-15 rifle, fully assembled (kits can be cheaper if you find good deals) Granted, Texas-based Gun Nut may not have the best price comparisons for yall Brits, but entire weapons or easily 2 week's worth of (admittedly unhealthy) meals. Hornby what the hell are yall on man.
Yeah that's right - it's a crazy amount of money! I get there are serious costs involved, but there are also other manufacturers who manage to come up with much better prices! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
2 years ago I bought my son his first car for exactly this price 😂. It’s a 1994 Renault 21 2.1L turbo diesel with a full service history and every option available at the time. He’s still using it regularly to do 500 mile trips from home to university on the other side of France.
For the price, Hornby couldn't quite stick the landing? The differences in paint color are EASY to explain. I noticed the issue before you got to the tender. QC would have caught the color mismatch easily but at the corporate and manufacturing level, they did not care. It saved Hornby $1~2, that is what it comes down to. What happened? Go to 16m30s for a visual reference. 1. They are using the same color paint for the rich burgundy. Nothing wrong with that paint. 2. The difference is the metal and plastic parts. Look at the running board and cab, plastic. Just like the tender. And DO NOT match the shade used on the diecast body. 3. The problem IS NOT the materials (plastic vs metal). They did NOT primer the plastic to save money. They primed the diecast black and said "close enough" to the black plastic. Those two surfaces are NOT the same. Had they applied primer onto the plastic and then painted the burgundy and yellow trim on top, it would have solved this problem. This is basic painting knowledge. They didn't want to spend the money on labor and primer to properly paint the model. There is a lack of burgundy paint above the springs... but that's minor. The lighting for the front top light and tender should have been better. A little more effort in design would have fixed this. I build Bandai models that use clear parts to make light channels to light up their kits. Other notes: Add a bit of black wash to add more details to the copper-colored parts, including those in the cab. (Wash, then wipe off with Q-tips) Add black wash to the coal, don't bother wiping off. It will make add detail and look more coal-like, and dullish. It won't look like plastic anymore. Easily, Hornby should have had a better motor. They almost made a very good product. PS: thanks for making another great video.
Me: The Turbomotive seems a bit overpriced for what it is, I'll wait and try to get one on sale. Also me one month later: So I bought a Turbomotive... I am not proud of myself. XD
Hornby has become a very greedy and mismanaged company. These prices are short sighted greed that will see people go to more reasonable priced hobbies. And even at this price the workmanship and design is poor, weak engine and the back tender light is dull because it is misalligned behind the openning.
If this was £190 I would buy one today. However it's performance is a concern. I bought 2 of the new streamlined Coronations and the 9 coach set. There was so much drag due to the lights that it ran on my flat layout at a scale speed of 30mph. I had waited for these since 1980. I ended up selling the lot.
Thanks Sam. Is it me or do those flangeless pony wheels look too small? Love the finish on the body but a shame the paint doesn't match throughout. Great too see some weight, but a mechanism to match would be nice. Hornby remains too expensive and I'm glad my needs are met from other manufacturers at better value. I have just bought a Bachmann 4575 from Olivia's Trains for £147 delivered. This is the same price as the new 44xx from Rapido, of which I have two on order. I'm looking forward to the comparison and wonder how they will compare to the Hornby large Prairie. Cheers.
The front lamps are too bright for oil lamps- the rear one is about right- and there should only be one lamp lit red when the engine is in reverse. also some red paint showing through on the smokebox.. Poor for the price although still a nice model!
For about 490 pounds I bought a "used" (model was clean, box looked like it may have been opened twice) Broadway Limited Paragon 2 UP-1 4-12-2, which is DCC and sound, is (I believe) a brass hybrid, and if it's not the whole thing is metal, has a smoke unit in it and even has working class lights. It's a better value than the past several things you've reviewed from Hornby but I don't know how good of a value it is considering that I bought a brand new BLI Reading T-1 for an extra 100 USD that also has sound, smoke and all
A point I'd like to make on behalf of Hornby that to a degree reflects positively on their prices. They innovate and that costs money with english designers on english wages and that money has to be recovered. The lighting is not perfect, but it is an innovation, as is the neat touch switch in the tender (and soon coaches i guess), decent crew, bluetooth controllers, TT, new smoke generator ideas, Skaledale etc. - even Steam Punk. The odd 'miss' still has to be recovered. What is Bachmann innovating within their high prices?
Well decent quality is one thing... But yer the Model Railway Hobby is being screwed over and its better off to be trying to find stuff second hand than to pick up stuff new... At least older stuff is more robust and looks much nicer to me. Modern Hornby despite all the fancy bells and whistles are really throwing themselves up hill and will be in for a shock once all of the older modellers sell up or pass away leaving then with younger people who will not so willing to pay up for over priced models and begging for a bail out. This is why they need to bring back a good budget range and bring us back to the time when wagons costed at least £5 to £10s decently and locos where at least £35 to £50...
Innovation costs money, but if the innovative feature (the lamps) doesn’t work, then my question is why bother? Also, Hornby products are currently made in China, unless your talking about the design team, which is based in the U.K. Bachmann isn’t really innovating that much, but their prices aren’t nearly as high as this, and they have really improved, particularly with their steam locos, in the past 3-4 years. Also, Dapol have innovated a lot, and yet their models are far cheaper than this.
As I model the Liverpool to Manchester line I’ve nagged Hornby for years to produce it. Yes it’s expensive but, I allowed this in my budgeting for this year. So for me it’s worth it. The front hinged plate was to allow more air into the radiator for an oil bath that lubricated the turbines.
@@SamsTrains ...and the locomotive usually ran with the air intake open. Which is probably why they made it an option to open or close it. Take a look at pictures of the loco running, you can almost always see the plate at an angle (open). The maroon livery is stunning.
Nice loco, as for the price it's the oldest marketing trick in the book. Start with a high MSRP and then put them on sale, the consumer thinks they are getting a deal yet the manufacturer and retailer still make a big bundle.
240£!! Thats crazy especially for young or new modelers if i wanted to buy it (which i do but wont 😂) converted to candian dollars its 400! Great video as always -TC5
Well the front lamps are certainly a quality feature, and quite expensive to have fitted by the retailers, a real shame that the rest of it doesn't really match that one specific feature. You certainly convinced me to save my money on this for the foreseeable future!
I still find it more surprising that lighting on locos is so rare from Hornby. I have a 1981 catalogue from Märklin and almost all the locos have lights. However, I guess that lighting if more complicated in Britain, because the marker lights can de variably lit depending on conditions. Having said that, I just love lit up trains, even if the lighting is not prototypical.
Fabulous model Sam and a superb review as always. As long as "we" keep buying 'em at these prices, then nothing will change. Easy for me to say, as I'm not a fan of this model's looks. But could I resist a model at this price that I really liked and wanted? Hmmm.... probably not!
I'm with you. Not a fan of the design (looks strange with no valve gear) so wouldn't buy one even if it was half the price. What I struggle to understand is that this must be so much easier and cheaper to produce given the lack of valve gear, why are Hornby charging such a premium price? I can only think that the demand will be there because of the unique nature of the prototype, so can charge what they believe they can get away with. As you rightly say, if 'we' keep buying them at these prices, then nothing is going to change.
@@delboy1727Charging what the market will bear. I think that's the second (?) third (?) lesson in capitalism: Release a product at a high initial price, watch as people buy it, over time adjust your price to meet demand, and maximize profit.
China is bit of a meme (with good reason); It's more so that companies like Hornby hire cheap labor with maximum profit on their side. Eg, Bachmann also does their stuff in China, although the quality difference between their European and American stuff vs their made for China stuff is astounding. I wish we had that level of quality as the norm vs just that one market over there.
Another excellent review Sam and overall it looks a very nice model. Price: One thing to be aware of is that by far the biggest cost when making models is labour. The diecast boiler AND running plate will increase the cost, but not to such a huge extent that it justifies the price IMO. The lights are a very nice touch, I wouldn't expect those add much to the cost in terms of parts, although if it's not automated and they need fitting by hand that would increase labour costs. It is over priced IMO, though Hornby aren't quite as bad as Bachmann in that regard. However both Accurascale and Dapol are able to make diecast, detailed locos at a considerably lower prices which shows it can be done. Additionally the model shops sometimes sell old stock at considerable discounts which is a good indication on how big a mark up the two big manufacturers make. Because it's a fairly unique loco I suspect these will sell out fairly quickly, especially the LMS maroon version. However personally I'm not willing, nor can I afford to pay that price, so will hope to pick one up secondhand for a more reasonable cost in the future. If not I've already got three standard Princesses in various liveries which only cost me about £110-125 each secondhand and in boxed mint condition. They have firebox flicker, but not the working lamps or diecast body. However I prefer their looks with the valve gear and increased detail. Loco-tender connection: My guess is these were designed just before Hornby changed to the new connection. Hornby use a variety of factories in China and some have been more affected by shut downs for Covid than others depending on the region. I expect those models whose production has been delayed such as the 2MT will all have the old connection.
Thank you - it sure is a nice model! You're right - I'm not an expert but from what I understand the cost of injection moulded plastic parts vs die cast metal parts isn't much different... it's mainly going to be the cost of material that makes the difference... so a pound or two at the most. I agree Hornby aren't quite as bad as Bachmann - at least there's a real attempt here to add value for money in many areas, same can't always be said for Bachmann. Thanks a lot for sharing, Cheers, Sam :)
Well said, though I still don’t think the cost is that well justified, and it is still VERY overpriced. I personally think some of Bachmann’s models still offer better value, though not all…
Hi sam I hope you and Chloe are well? I've just received mine like 2 mins ago. Where the exploded diagram I do like to look at them. From what I can see from mine it looks amazing Defo heavy I'll continue watching yours after I have recorded the detail parts of mine Thank you for sharing your models with us Keep safe ARP
Maybe the tender is from a Princess Royal Class, or something similar,as the buffers don't match the loco, as the loco has the square buffers while the tender has the circle buffers
In real life I guess it would have been... the model doesn't match the new Princess tender though, so I think it may be new tooled... perhaps not the chassis too, that looks like the same one as before! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@modelrailfan37 No. Thats not how that works. That would be like saying hes reviewing analog and not the locomotive. Its just an interface difference, and sometimes that matters with each and every model. Its good to test both.
Looks as if the tender light is white when the front lights are white - surely wrong? My dad said he rode on the prototype (he used to spot trains at Lime Street station). I kind of like it but not for over £200.
OK, it's diecast (which doesn't bother me either way), but the reality is that this is quite a simple model - no valve gear, smooth casing, etc - all of which should reduce production costs. It should be _cheaper_ than their other diecast locos, not the same price as buying an Accurascale loco that comes already fitted with DCC, sound, large stay alive, etc. Count me out as a customer.
It's basically a super capacitor that stores enough power to keep the loco going over any dead spots. It works with DCC and makes a massive difference to the smooth running of a loco over dead frogs and other track imperfections.
It's an interesting model of an interesting prototype. It was actually the only truly successful direct drive steam tubine locomotive, all other designs worldwide were withdrawn after only a few years, where this one basically the forward turbine had failed from wear from constant use. The model is interesting, but like many newer Hornby releases it's simply overpriced
ok...very nice looking nodell...BUT performance is just not good enough....not enough power there...can't understand it...but hey....itsa"hornby"...enjoy...p.s. i won't buy one.....and it's not the price....
Your reviews helped me choose between the Turbomotive and the W1 when I was visiting from across the pond (I went with the Turbomotive, obviously, and I love it!) Thank You!
I have to say, as much as the working headlamps are a cool feature I feel it actually makes the model worse given that two of the three on the front, and the one on the tender, aren't removable. How do you change the headcode without massively damaging the model? Wouldve been better if they were removable, but for me it spoils what is otherwise a good, if overpriced, loco.
Regarding the price, one has to consider that Hornby had all the extra work of making and installing the steam turbines instead of the much simpler valve gear.....Oh. Wait.....
I hope one can turn the tender light OFF. driving a loco on a train with the locomotive showing a red whilst coupled to a train was a fireable offence for the driver involved. Also, the rebuilt Turbomotive (named Princess Anne), although mechanically a member of the Princess Royal class, had quite a different appearance from the others.
OBSCURE ? ? The thing that will make this model "Obscure" is the PRICE ! Converted to US dollars, Ouch ! ! (that's Ameri-Speak for Ouch). NO THANK YOU, MATE !
Sam. Great respect to you & your videos as always, but i have had to give you, the thumbs down on this one. With all the defects you have found on this failure of a model, & at that exorbitant price, by the end you were actually praising it. Lamps not working, a piece of sponge doing God knows what, & to cap it all, they couldn"t even match the tender paintwork, or proofread their instruction leaflet. Give Hornby what they deserve, A GOOD BOLLOCKING !!! Over recent years, their products have greatly increased prices & many quality issues. Iv"e bought running motor cars for a fraction of the cost of this loco. ATB Mike.
Hi Sam - frankly, I think you've been too generous. Having seen your reviews of both, I can't say this looks a better model than a P2; doesn't run as well, and in terms of drawbar seems outdated. (On which note, Loco weight shouldn't affect drawbar connection. Torque maybe, but it's the loco doing the pulling, not being pulled, through the connection). It seems priced abour £30-40 too high, and underpowered even at that. Still, I wouldn't have been able to form these opinions without your top grade review, so, as ever, many thanks! -Chris
When Hornby make the decisions like not having a matching colour tender, not using a powerful enough motor, anything in the Steam Punk (I still don’t know what I Steam Punk is) range, it’s usually for cost reasons…but I can’t see how they make these decisions without being embarrassed…surely someone had to say “…but the cheaper motor will make the model look really, really poor….”
THE LOCO LAMPS The two on the front Buffer Beam look to be fine. I would suggest that the oneson the Smokebox Door and the one on the Tender look to be pretty much the same item, (slightly smaller than the ones on the Buffer Beam). Am I correct in this observation.? If so, this would suggest that they are not intended to be as bright as the ones on the Buffer Beam. Which I would admit is a bit strange, although not something to lose sleep over. Are the lamps available as a separate purchase from Hornby...? if so, it might be possible to replace the slightly smaller ones with two the same size as the ones on the Buffer Beam. Just wondering..... James Hennighan Yorkshire, England P.S. It could be that with these lamps being a new feature for Hornby that they will refine them a little bit. In truth its probably a slight difference in production standards. Perhaps if they had factory fitted all of the lamps they would be tested pre-boxing, and likely all the same quality and brilliance....?
First, the price : it's German territory here, do we have the German quality too ? Well, not yet : the botched documentation is unacceptable at this price. And agreed on the complexity of the model : we are in the overall simplicity of a diesel engine, the price of an engine like the 9F is not justified. Yes this is a nice model, but even minor, the quality issues are unacceptable at this level of price. Look at what Märklin/Trix, Roco or Piko do for the same price. We have an heavy metal manufacturing, lights and firebox glow and a decent mechanism, but the colours of the tender and the engine does not match, the engine-tender drawbar send us 30 years in the past, no NEM socket for the front coupling, rear light too dim to see and the usual gutless motor by Hornby, with the poor performances that goes with it... What's the use to manufacture the engine in full diecast/tungsten/depleted uranium for an outrageous price if the motor cannot haul her to a correct motion ? No, she's not worth GBP 240, period. As is, i won't give more than GBP 170, if not GBP 150, to buy her. A no-go for me wait for a 30 to 50% bargain before buying her if you are interested.
Hi Sam. I can top your most expensive steam loco ever. I’ve recently bought a pre-owned Johnson 1P in crimson lake with no decoder from Hattons. It cost me £271 - an eye-watering sum! It was certainly in mint condition but the model railway world appears to have gone crazy!! Kind regards. Chris
I do not model British trains , however the C E O of Hornby made a speech in a documentary which knocked me off my dead - lazy ass and powered me into going into the model railroad industry so I have infinite affection for their leader all team members whom inspired me to be great and if you do not think their model is worth the price you are free to have the model custom built for $ 8,000 dollars , $ 10,000 and it may be perfect or not much better ? CHEERS ! are-U- nutz ! , this hobby was not built by mizers so go out of it jerks !
£125 for the recommended 21 pin dcc decoder, so £395 for one OO locomotive!😮 $670 CAD 🍁!!! We can get brass dcc locomotives over here for less!! Yikes.
See, okay, ever since this model was announced, I've had one prevailing feeling about it; it's a cheap and easy conversion of the Princess Royal. Yes, the body is asymmetrical, but, the big thing, no valve gear at all. Just side rods. It's simple as anything for them to produce. Less complex than the original. So, to then charge mega money for it, yet another "hornby tells us it's raining" (you know the saying in full) moment. Do correct me if I am wrong and this model is somehow super complex. I just..I can't shake that they saw a way to make an easy rebuild of their existing model.
prices are completely outlandish for these given their history of bad QC - no mention is made at all of where theyre made, mainland China is my guess?????
To use a car analogy, it's as if Hornby were aiming to make a Rolls-Royce, produced a Mercedes S-Class, but still gave it a Rolls-Royce price tag. Good, but not £266 good. £180 would be nearer the mark, and if they pried it to undercut the Accurascale die-cast loco, it would look like a real bargain, but for the motor issue. It needs at least twice the power being delivered by the current motor to operate properly. I suspect there's a limit to how much power you can extract from a motor that fits snugly into an OO model, and I suspect one of the reasons for the delay in the appearance of this was centred upon ever more desperate attempts to solve the power/torque issue. A physically larger motor would probably produce more power, but might not fit in that chassis. Arranging for the motor to spin faster, but reduce the gearing ratio to increase the torque at the wheels, results in faster internal component wear, which would bite Hornby hard if people shelled out the full £266 on a model that exhibited reliability issues early in its life. I suspect a lot of midnight oil was burned on this, and still didn't deliver an optimum solution. One possibility would have been to run with rare earth magnets in the motor, but that would have jacked up the price even more. Neodymium magnets deliver a powerful magnetic field in a small space, but are *not* cheap, even if you're buying them in volume to reduce per unit cost. I'm thinking overreach played a part here.
Those lights are a royal curates egg. Why is there a lamp on the rear of the locomotive, when the operating rules were VERY strict on what that lamp signifies; ie the rear of the ENTIRE train, whether its lit or not signalmen were trained to look for the lamp, not the light. As supplied Turbomotive shouldn't be hauling anything! Yet the front headcode lamps say its express passenger, or if you put the third lamp in its an empty stock working...but that code was made obsolete before Turbomotive was built. Hornby haven't done their research very well...its almost like they said 'lights are cool, lets stick lights on it.' but didn't bother to look up what those lamps actually mean. So we wind up with this weird contradiction which has been done really poorly into the (expensive) bargain.
It is true that a model of a more obscure prototype with limited liveries will be slightly more expensive than a more common prototype with plentiful liveries, but only slightly, at least for a larger manufacturer like Hornby. If a manufacturer expects to sell say 10,000 of an obscure model when they would normally expect to sell 100,000 of a 'normal' model obviously the research and development costs are going to be 10x higher per model sold, but around £100 more per model seems excessive in the extreme. Perhaps if it was a limited run of 1,000 models or something you could begin to justify that level of pricing, but even then it's still seems too much.
Could someone enlighten me please? Looking at photos of the prototype, the driving wheels have no balance weights, due to the turbine's smoothness eliminating 'hammer blow', yet the Hornby model has the weights. If they're using another chassis for £240 then that really isn't good enough, but am I correct in my observations?
Yeah I'm with you Sam. I won't be buying this. And it's not because of the obscurity, geography or era. There is one LARGE standout reason I'm not buying it.
Hornby have now modeled two of the three locos damaged in the Harrow and Wealdstone disaster. The other is the Duchess class City of Glasgow. Seems a little ghoulish perhaps, but I'm sure it's not intended that way.
Can you make your content inclusive by formatting the auto captioning into closed captioning please? it is extremely hard to watch it relying only on the auto captioning sadly (I'm Profoundly Deaf)
Saying Turbomotive was rebuilt into a standard Princess Royal is wrong. She is obviously designed around the Princess Royal design, but a lot of the new parts were Coronation class parts, and quite a few were unique too. And the crash involving her as Princess Anne led to a shortage of express locos on the WCML, leading to the building of the standard class 8 71000 Duke of Gloucester. One thing to note is, the space for the 21-pin chip is rather small. How would you fit Hornby's own TXS chips (which you noted to be larger than NEM standard) into that space without heavily modifying the speaker? I love obscurities, especially prototypes and one-offs like this. But the price is too high (even with all the diecast), and I'm not overwhelmed by Hornby's quality of late, hence I don't have either version of W1 yet, or the new 00s FGW liveried HST set (I want it as a 2+2), or a new P2.
Wow, i was so close to buying one of these... Then i seen that torque. I can't believe the manufacturers keep doing that. What's the point of having good weight when it can't pull itself? You should do a motor swap episode on this loco Sam!
Decent overall review here Sam, as an owner of one of these models my one being the BR black one I can say it is definitely worth the price being asked, it could be hornbys best locomotive to date and in my opinion it is, the features included on it are incredible the best one in my opinion being the lamps that light up on the front, I’m very happy with mine so in my opinion it is worth what is being asked for it, you may reject the excuse that one offs always command a high price but unfortunately to have these models of one off we have to be willing to pay.
Thanks a lot David - glad to hear you're so happy with yours - and I agree it is one of their best given all of the weight etc, great stuff! I only reject that models like this are unpopular and therefore bumped up in price to cover the costs - from what I've seen they're very popular! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think its a beautiful loco. And by having two different sides, you can pretend you have two different locos for almost the price of two locos. Depending on which side you're looking at.
My guess is you’re also paying for that fancy box. Not that it’s justified. But it reminds me of the big bottles of washing machine detergent that inflate the prices because of the massive hard plastic bottles they come in.
Go to Europe and go buy some large Continental HO locomotives buy some very well-known high-end brands over there. Go see how much you pay on average over there then come back and see if your Hornby is any different
Sam - my friend had his Turbomotive replaced as it appears the motor failed. The loco suddenly stopped when travelling in the forward direction causing some of the coaches to derail. Then, it would only run in reverse but after a few minutes the loco slowed and stopped completely. I am wondering as the standard motor appears to have been fitted coupled with the excess weight of the diecast loco body, we may see this issue highlighted with more customers models over the next few months?
All that development? Take off the valve gear, modify the piston block and hey presto your princess becomes the turbo motive.. it would take about 20 minutes to do this as a one off
That's more expensive than a lot of washing machines and they have a huge motor, loads of metal, lots of lights and cleans my undies 😮.
You're right - you can buy a heck of a lot for that amount of money!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
This is the greatest comment on the internet
Great comment 👍🏻 😂
A Hornby washing machine would probably be about £5,000!
Do you know when I said that on the Hornby Forum I got loads of people moaning at me. Then you get the comparisons with German and US models which are more expensive. When other manufacturers can make better models for less then it shows how expensive they are. Incidentally, I bought the sound one, ordered it about a year ago and the front bogie derails on my layout. Interestingly Sam, considering that all the rivet counters complain about your test track neither this nor the P2 derailed during your reviews, but it did regularly on my and others layouts. So your layout can't be that bad.
Awesome video Sam, The reason steam turbines don't work on locomotives is that at High speed they're great, but at low speed, they're terrible. This is why all US Steam Turbine locomotives were never successful. At Least William Stainer's attempt was somewhat successful.
Sam, now you have officially become a rivet counter, the lights on this model need comment.
As it is an LMS engine, the lamps should be black cased, not crimson lake. (The streamlined Coronation class locos in crimson lake livery carried this colour with a streamline fairing but I have not seen reference to the non streamlined locos using these . The lamps themselves had a handle at the top running front to back. The fitted ones on the model have the gap under the handle filled in - the ones available from ModelU, DCC Concepts and the like are able to model them accurately. These are very noticeable errors, and cost nothing to get right.
As for brightness, loco lamps were identification only not illumination, so they should be dull almost yellowish for the forward white aspect.
The front lights as fitted are for a Class A express passenger train, which this usually was.
The additional lamp on the smoke box is occasionally useful, but never used in conjunction with both the (fitted) outer buffer beam lights (except when hauling the monarch when a lamp in the centre of the buffer beam is also used - 4 lamps total). So, unless one can turn off the buffer beam lamps individually, the train will always carry wrong lamp codes except on express passenger trains.
As for the lamp on the tender, it would be present (and displaying red) only if the loco were travelling chimney first light engine. The instructions said it would be red in that direction. On the video, when you said reverse it still seemed to be the same colour as forward - white.
If travelling tender first, as Turbo was incapable of moving much beyond itself in reverse, it should carry the light engine white lamp code of one in the centre of the buffer beam. The one photo of the rear of the class’ tender which I have seen shows the top lamp iron to be where Hornby have placed the lamp. If white, that is a class B ordinary passenger working. Given the power in reverse that is very unlikely in reality.
Personal opinion, even as an LMS tragic, the loco does not appeal aesthetically, and certainly not for the price - even the retailers’ discounted one. Thanks again for an excellent review. Very balanced.
Great looking model of a distinctive, if short lived, prototype. The LMS red ones seem to be flying off the shelves.
They should’ve made the W1’s boiler Diecast. Seriously, the boiler cladding shape of the W1 just screams “Diecast Metal Damnit!!” But Hornby wanted to be cheap and use plastic. Maybe one day they will reissue the W1 with a Diecast boiler.
Wow, I'm incredibly impressed. I was secretly hoping you would review it, having heard that Hattons got them last week. Owning a Dublo Scotsman, the finish looks absolutely stunning. I think to be better value the cab should be die-cast like my Scotsman. The lights however are extremely impressive. I actually prefer it over the firebox glow since I spend more time looking at the loco front rather than the cab. The tender lamp and the optional smokebox lamp are nice features and I love to see it on future models. Yes, it may not be the most effective, but seeing it occasionally makes me feel quite good. I fit lamps to almost all locomotives so this one having them pre-fitted, especially a steam locomotive is very impressive. Only nicks for me are the slight quality issues and the light leakage foam which looks very bad now that you mentioned it. Performance wise, I think there could be room for improvement. My Dublo Scotsman can pull 6 Pullmans without issues on second radius (I don't know the exact weight sadly) but considering the Princess is larger, I guess it's heavier. A truly excellent model, if slightly overpriced. 220£ would feel alright at the retailers (It's still much much better value than the Hush Hush for me which isn't that far off price wise), but for now I'm waiting for the BR Apple Green J36 limited edition to drop since I pre-ordered it. Great review of a truly stunning loco.
Beautiful locomotive but still not as beautiful as the American PRR S2 turbine. Kidding, I'm kind of jealous this thing isn't available in N-scale. What you said about people buying this thing even though it's not appropriate for the era or railroad they are modelling is 100% on point though. Hornby is probably raising the price because they know there is a wider audience for this model than just people modeling the prototype era and locales this thing was used in and on.
That engine looks very beautiful. Reminds me of the Pennsy S2 Turbine. Also an interesting way to make the lights work on the tender. Guess DCC would help a little better with the lights as they’ll be on constant and can have brightness adjusted. Could also be faulty lights. Good review as always.
I will say I am jealous that Hornby have now started using the same box that Broadway Limited Imports used to use and now BLI has started using the box Hornby used to use. Smaller models work in that type of box but an $800 all die cast big boy should be in a sturdy cardboard type box with true foam protection, not the flimsy card stock with styrofoam lining and no foam at all protecting the blister holding the engine.
I've been into model railways/ tramways for about 50 years but the prices now are crazy.
I as a pensioner live on £500 a month , how can any independent modeller afford something like that
I agree with you - I do have to ask whether these prices are really necessary. Also, as nice as the extra features are, I wonder if the model would be better without them, and sold more cheaply?
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
cheers from germany mate...but how can you live on 500 gbp anyway...modeller or not..??...all the best from here to you....
Yes, I agree with you, but most model hobbies are very expensive these days. Just plastic model kits are pretty costly.
I'd expect a newly tooled, well-running, and nicely detailed loco to be around 200 quid these days.
The thing that irks me the most is selling old models at similar prices. Tooling costs should be recovered in early runs, then re-runs should be cheaper.
I feel your pain. As an LMS guy, I'd love one of these - but can't afford it this year. I blew my budget on an Accurascale class 31.
The reality is manufacturers are not a charity, they have to make a profit and will sell at whatever price people will pay, regardless of those on lower incomes., and sorry to say those that can't afford the prices are not their target market.
We are in fact very lucky in the UK. If you compare Hornby and other UK manufacturers with Piko, Roco, Märklin, Trix, Brawa, Fleischmann etc you will see most of their prices are nearly double what we pay in the UK.
In reality model railway prices have risen less than many other manufactured goods.
Fellow pensioner here; there is no way I can justify these hideous prices. But, do I need a Turbomotive? Well, possibly. But, if you think about it, all it is is a Princess Royal minus its Walschaerts valve gear plus a bit of casing covering the forward and reverse turbines.
So, take a Lizzie remove its valve gear and cylinders and you have a choice of fashioning your own casings from metal or even, as I do, from balsa wood soaked in wood hardener from a woodrot repair kit and sanded really smooth. I have used the technique over many years to produce sports car bodies not made by "cheaper" makers. Follow with 6 to 8 thin coats of paint, hand rubbed, and apply lining via a bow pen or lining tool. Result: one Turbomotive at a bargain price!
I’m still feeling sick paying $600 for a brass hybrid BLI locomotive, had to destroy receipt before wife found it 😬😵
hahaha blimey... good thinking on the receipt! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Jew pay cash or card?
Hi Sam, a couple of points from an LMS anorak. You say a couple of times this was rebuilt as a standard Princess, but actually Princess Anne, as it was called, was also unique. It had a more Duchess like steam chest and cylinders. It is good that the radiator flap at the front moves because on the real thing it would be up when running but down when idle.
You might be able to tell me if the train classification lamps are illuminated in daytime running like so many expect from what many here call "headlights".
@@johnd8892 the loco's lamps should be lit at all times while running for working through tunnels. they are purely for marking the train class and each end of the train but provide no illumination. Modern image traction will have the high intensity lights fitted which provide some degree of illumination but i'm not sure how they compare to a car headlight.
Destroyed in the Harrow collision.
£266 for something that isn't even DCC fitted let alone DCC sound, Hornby are an absolute joke
Hey Sam! Great and honest review here, as always.
I do have a tip for you. I own one of the Dublo range Scotsman centenary models, which have diecast bodies. I had to run it in for longer at a slightly higher speed to fully loosen up the mechanism (roughly 45 mins in each direction, at 55-60 speed). Once I had done that, it performed exactly the same as my main range A1 with decent crawl and good torque. The more I ran it, the more it started to match my other Hornby locos in performance. Hope this helps!
Many thanks my friend - and thanks for these tips... might as well give this some more running and see what happens then, cheers for that,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Through the camera, the light on the back looks very authentic for oil lamps. They aren't bright at all in real life!
lights are the wrong way though, it changed to red when he went in reverse so that is incorrect.
hi sam , i am trying to build a model loco from scratch, as from where i belong ...the concept of model railroading simply doesn't exist..so sourcing loco , rolling stock and tracks is very difficult. I bought a bachmann "Rail cheif" set for 380 £ from amazon , but the quality is not worth the price ..so i decided to build my own loco ,including the motorizing unit along with the gears . ill be using a resin 3d printer to print all of the parts, but i am not sure which resin to use , as some resin shink too much . Your last video gave me the inspiration to try it my self . So in the next followup video of the project you are working on , can u please inculde what type of resin u will be usin and the what type of motor u will use to power the loco ...thanks for making such amazing content ❤
The bag of plastic parts is clearly a new common accessories pack - it's identical to the one that came in the P2 boxes, and I imagine the brake rigging is standardised for any Pacific locomotive.
Anyone thinking of buying this for a DCC layout should add the price tag for Hornby's new 21-pin decoder too - ouch! You're into Broadway Limited kind of money already!
Sam, about a year ago we in the US got our own steam turbine locomotive from BLI, the PRR S2, I paid $800 for it, mostly made of brass. I would love to see your thoughts on one, especially after reviewing this locomotive.
Thanks for the review Sam it's a lovely model but too expensive. I saw another review where the front was a bit warped and the front bufferbeam was sloping upwards. I think I see it on this one too. Maybe it's because of the sponge? All the best.
Thanks for sharing! That's interesting - I did look for that but didn't see anything... will double check!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Typical of Hornby to create a heavy model at last & then they go & skimp on the motor's horse-power! I think I'll stick to my trusty old Tri-ang-Hornby Princess. She may be a little noisy at 60 ++ years old but she still looks a treat & runs like there's no tomorrow! Turbo...eat yet heart out! & ;good luck if you decide to re-spray the Turbo-Tender to match the front end colour lol. Great video thanks Sam. You have come a long way with your presentation since the early days on your channel...just sooooo professional & thorough these days. The picture & sound quality has got so much better. Keep up the good work my son. Cheers. A.
As soon as i saw this on hornby a model world, i knew you would eventually review it, such a stunning model, and as always a great video
hahaha yeah no doubt about it - and stunning indeed!! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hornby's prices have been really skyrocketing lately. I was discouraged from getting my own APT set, but luckily I was able to pick one up pre-owned from Hattons for almost half of the price. What a steal!
I feel like Hornby should be featuring fan-driven smoke units at these price points. :\
Even at that price you paid too much. Train collections Worldwide have lost value.
@@robertcornelius3514 eh 214 pounds for a 5-car APT seems fine.
Meanwhile in China model railway companies are making DCC fitted China Railways diesels with sound, smoke units, cab lights, dashboard lights, engine room lights, bogie inspection lights and working roof fans for under 200 pounds. I know it sounds crazy but it's true. Oh and the whole body is diecast too.
That's what you Brits get when the factory making your models is half a globe away lol.
Hornby is pricing itself out existence. It is only a matter of time.
About the front coupling, I think it might just be a spare? Given the very small reverse turbine you'd never run a train tender-first with it so that mean there's less demand for a front coupling? Just my conjecture. Fantastic video as always! :)
Does the trailing truck pivot around curves or stay in one position
hi sam. going to keep this short and bitter sweet. back lamp i noticed that while driving forward it lit up white when it should be red and in revers it lit up red when it should be white. hornby shoddy finished product.
Oh interesting - I'll have to double check that... it's so hard to see with the naked eye you wouldn't notice!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think you miss the point about price. The selling price of an item isn't just what it cost to make or what it's worth, it's about what the market will pay. (Apple products and designer labels being classic examples). Hornby know they will sell a lot of these at that price, maxing out what revenue they can, then when sales slow down, will reduce the price. That's how marketing works.
Also bear in mind Hornby are on track to lose 5 million pounds this year. I'm sure if you have an original idea or solution how they can lower prices while losing money they would be delighted to hear it.
Washing machines sell by the million so costs spread by the million, I used to see the turbo at Stafford on Saturday mornings, roughly 11.15 off to Liverpool, grime covered, blinkers fitted, as i was about 11 or 12 years old it really intreaged me, I yearned to see it and everything else in full LMS livery and now I can, I'm 86, not in good health and I absolutely love it and all the beautiful LMS stuff that modelling allows, thank you to all manufacturers and to you Sam for showing all the stuff that you do Pete
Nice recollection, the real loco must of been a sight for sore eyes.
I was living at Watford when the multiple Harrow collision occurred. Princess Anne, then newly converted to conventional drive was totally destroyed.
I'm an American (Texan). At RRP (not counting shipping and keeping VAT, cuz some shops exclude it for overseas orders, some don't) it comes out to $323 USD (21 hrs of work for me before taxes).
For around that price (give or take a couple bucks & still excluding shipping) I can buy:
Approximately 1,300 rounds of 9mm ammunition
About 40 meals from various fast food restaurants (Subway footlong sandwiches, entire pizzas, hamburgers w/ drink & fries [chips for yall Brits])
A decent pistol chambered in .22LR and about 650 rounds of said ammunition (did buy the pistol as a birthday present to myself)
4,875 rounds of .22LR ammunition (very underpowered round. More for fun/training at a shooting range than self defense)
With an additional 20-30 bucks I can buy a very basic AR-15 rifle, fully assembled (kits can be cheaper if you find good deals)
Granted, Texas-based Gun Nut may not have the best price comparisons for yall Brits, but entire weapons or easily 2 week's worth of (admittedly unhealthy) meals.
Hornby what the hell are yall on man.
Yeah that's right - it's a crazy amount of money! I get there are serious costs involved, but there are also other manufacturers who manage to come up with much better prices!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
2 years ago I bought my son his first car for exactly this price 😂. It’s a 1994 Renault 21 2.1L turbo diesel with a full service history and every option available at the time.
He’s still using it regularly to do 500 mile trips from home to university on the other side of France.
For the price, Hornby couldn't quite stick the landing? The differences in paint color are EASY to explain. I noticed the issue before you got to the tender.
QC would have caught the color mismatch easily but at the corporate and manufacturing level, they did not care. It saved Hornby $1~2, that is what it comes down to.
What happened? Go to 16m30s for a visual reference.
1. They are using the same color paint for the rich burgundy. Nothing wrong with that paint.
2. The difference is the metal and plastic parts. Look at the running board and cab, plastic. Just like the tender. And DO NOT match the shade used on the diecast body.
3. The problem IS NOT the materials (plastic vs metal). They did NOT primer the plastic to save money. They primed the diecast black and said "close enough" to the black plastic. Those two surfaces are NOT the same. Had they applied primer onto the plastic and then painted the burgundy and yellow trim on top, it would have solved this problem.
This is basic painting knowledge. They didn't want to spend the money on labor and primer to properly paint the model.
There is a lack of burgundy paint above the springs... but that's minor.
The lighting for the front top light and tender should have been better. A little more effort in design would have fixed this. I build Bandai models that use clear parts to make light channels to light up their kits.
Other notes:
Add a bit of black wash to add more details to the copper-colored parts, including those in the cab. (Wash, then wipe off with Q-tips)
Add black wash to the coal, don't bother wiping off. It will make add detail and look more coal-like, and dullish. It won't look like plastic anymore.
Easily, Hornby should have had a better motor.
They almost made a very good product.
PS: thanks for making another great video.
Its prices like this that make you understand why people play train simulators rather than buy models anymore. Its nice but its not £240 nice.
Me: The Turbomotive seems a bit overpriced for what it is, I'll wait and try to get one on sale.
Also me one month later: So I bought a Turbomotive... I am not proud of myself. XD
They’re going to have to look at their pricing, cannot justify the cost will put off a lot of people of buying Hornby
I don't get it. Why Hornby put 21 pin decoder socket if they don't use it? 8 pin or even 6 pin would be enough...
Hornby has become a very greedy and mismanaged company. These prices are short sighted greed that will see people go to more reasonable priced hobbies. And even at this price the workmanship and design is poor, weak engine and the back tender light is dull because it is misalligned behind the openning.
If this was £190 I would buy one today. However it's performance is a concern. I bought 2 of the new streamlined Coronations and the 9 coach set. There was so much drag due to the lights that it ran on my flat layout at a scale speed of 30mph. I had waited for these since 1980. I ended up selling the lot.
From Australia: I wonder if Hornby will watch your videos?
Thanks Sam. Is it me or do those flangeless pony wheels look too small? Love the finish on the body but a shame the paint doesn't match throughout. Great too see some weight, but a mechanism to match would be nice. Hornby remains too expensive and I'm glad my needs are met from other manufacturers at better value. I have just bought a Bachmann 4575 from Olivia's Trains for £147 delivered. This is the same price as the new 44xx from Rapido, of which I have two on order. I'm looking forward to the comparison and wonder how they will compare to the Hornby large Prairie. Cheers.
Very interesting, good features for a £180 loco.
The front lamps are too bright for oil lamps- the rear one is about right- and there should only be one lamp lit red when the engine is in reverse. also some red paint showing through on the smokebox.. Poor for the price although still a nice model!
British: 300 pound for a model? Thats a lot...
Americans: Pays $1000 for a 0-6-0 from the 1980s with no dcc sound used
For about 490 pounds I bought a "used" (model was clean, box looked like it may have been opened twice) Broadway Limited Paragon 2 UP-1 4-12-2, which is DCC and sound, is (I believe) a brass hybrid, and if it's not the whole thing is metal, has a smoke unit in it and even has working class lights.
It's a better value than the past several things you've reviewed from Hornby but I don't know how good of a value it is considering that I bought a brand new BLI Reading T-1 for an extra 100 USD that also has sound, smoke and all
“Quarter of a grand” 😂 that’s one way to emphasize how expensive it is! It does look beautiful though. Shame about the lights
haha yep... crazy isn't it? Lights are a great idea... they're just not implemented that brilliantly here,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A point I'd like to make on behalf of Hornby that to a degree reflects positively on their prices. They innovate and that costs money with english designers on english wages and that money has to be recovered. The lighting is not perfect, but it is an innovation, as is the neat touch switch in the tender (and soon coaches i guess), decent crew, bluetooth controllers, TT, new smoke generator ideas, Skaledale etc. - even Steam Punk. The odd 'miss' still has to be recovered. What is Bachmann innovating within their high prices?
Well decent quality is one thing...
But yer the Model Railway Hobby is being screwed over and its better off to be trying to find stuff second hand than to pick up stuff new... At least older stuff is more robust and looks much nicer to me.
Modern Hornby despite all the fancy bells and whistles are really throwing themselves up hill and will be in for a shock once all of the older modellers sell up or pass away leaving then with younger people who will not so willing to pay up for over priced models and begging for a bail out. This is why they need to bring back a good budget range and bring us back to the time when wagons costed at least £5 to £10s decently and locos where at least £35 to £50...
Innovation costs money, but if the innovative feature (the lamps) doesn’t work, then my question is why bother? Also, Hornby products are currently made in China, unless your talking about the design team, which is based in the U.K. Bachmann isn’t really innovating that much, but their prices aren’t nearly as high as this, and they have really improved, particularly with their steam locos, in the past 3-4 years. Also, Dapol have innovated a lot, and yet their models are far cheaper than this.
As I model the Liverpool
to Manchester line I’ve nagged Hornby for years to produce it. Yes it’s expensive but, I allowed this in my budgeting for this year. So for me it’s worth it. The front hinged plate was to allow more air into the radiator for an oil bath that lubricated the turbines.
Ahh fantastic - well it's a great model, I'm sure you'll enjoy it!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains ...and the locomotive usually ran with the air intake open. Which is probably why they made it an option to open or close it. Take a look at pictures of the loco running, you can almost always see the plate at an angle (open).
The maroon livery is stunning.
Nice loco, as for the price it's the oldest marketing trick in the book. Start with a high MSRP and then put them on sale, the consumer thinks they are getting a deal yet the manufacturer and retailer still make a big bundle.
Samuel's TRAINS is back at it again with another obscure model locomotive.
240£!! Thats crazy especially for young or new modelers if i wanted to buy it (which i do but wont 😂) converted to candian dollars its 400!
Great video as always -TC5
Well the front lamps are certainly a quality feature, and quite expensive to have fitted by the retailers, a real shame that the rest of it doesn't really match that one specific feature.
You certainly convinced me to save my money on this for the foreseeable future!
I still find it more surprising that lighting on locos is so rare from Hornby. I have a 1981 catalogue from Märklin and almost all the locos have lights.
However, I guess that lighting if more complicated in Britain, because the marker lights can de variably lit depending on conditions.
Having said that, I just love lit up trains, even if the lighting is not prototypical.
Lighting on Marklin trains goes back to the 1950s, and probably earlier.
This sealed the deal for me, I’m sticking to my plarail for the foreseeable future!
Fabulous model Sam and a superb review as always.
As long as "we" keep buying 'em at these prices, then nothing will change.
Easy for me to say, as I'm not a fan of this model's looks. But could I resist a model at this price that I really liked and wanted? Hmmm.... probably not!
I'm with you. Not a fan of the design (looks strange with no valve gear) so wouldn't buy one even if it was half the price. What I struggle to understand is that this must be so much easier and cheaper to produce given the lack of valve gear, why are Hornby charging such a premium price? I can only think that the demand will be there because of the unique nature of the prototype, so can charge what they believe they can get away with. As you rightly say, if 'we' keep buying them at these prices, then nothing is going to change.
@@delboy1727Charging what the market will bear. I think that's the second (?) third (?) lesson in capitalism:
Release a product at a high initial price, watch as people buy it, over time adjust your price to meet demand, and maximize profit.
Sam, your whining about Hornby prices is so boring and tedious. Get over it!! Your videos are coming so boring always harping about prices
I wouldnt mind but its just made in China, they have no right to justify the price.
China is bit of a meme (with good reason); It's more so that companies like Hornby hire cheap labor with maximum profit on their side. Eg, Bachmann also does their stuff in China, although the quality difference between their European and American stuff vs their made for China stuff is astounding. I wish we had that level of quality as the norm vs just that one market over there.
Great video, fella. Always good to see modelling happening. Can't wait to see the next video with trains running round
Another excellent review Sam and overall it looks a very nice model.
Price: One thing to be aware of is that by far the biggest cost when making models is labour. The diecast boiler AND running plate will increase the cost, but not to such a huge extent that it justifies the price IMO.
The lights are a very nice touch, I wouldn't expect those add much to the cost in terms of parts, although if it's not automated and they need fitting by hand that would increase labour costs.
It is over priced IMO, though Hornby aren't quite as bad as Bachmann in that regard. However both Accurascale and Dapol are able to make diecast, detailed locos at a considerably lower prices which shows it can be done.
Additionally the model shops sometimes sell old stock at considerable discounts which is a good indication on how big a mark up the two big manufacturers make.
Because it's a fairly unique loco I suspect these will sell out fairly quickly, especially the LMS maroon version. However personally I'm not willing, nor can I afford to pay that price, so will hope to pick one up secondhand for a more reasonable cost in the future.
If not I've already got three standard Princesses in various liveries which only cost me about £110-125 each secondhand and in boxed mint condition. They have firebox flicker, but not the working lamps or diecast body. However I prefer their looks with the valve gear and increased detail.
Loco-tender connection: My guess is these were designed just before Hornby changed to the new connection. Hornby use a variety of factories in China and some have been more affected by shut downs for Covid than others depending on the region. I expect those models whose production has been delayed such as the 2MT will all have the old connection.
Thank you - it sure is a nice model! You're right - I'm not an expert but from what I understand the cost of injection moulded plastic parts vs die cast metal parts isn't much different... it's mainly going to be the cost of material that makes the difference... so a pound or two at the most. I agree Hornby aren't quite as bad as Bachmann - at least there's a real attempt here to add value for money in many areas, same can't always be said for Bachmann. Thanks a lot for sharing,
Cheers,
Sam :)
Well said, though I still don’t think the cost is that well justified, and it is still VERY overpriced. I personally think some of Bachmann’s models still offer better value, though not all…
Hi sam
I hope you and Chloe are well?
I've just received mine like 2 mins ago.
Where the exploded diagram I do like to look at them.
From what I can see from mine it looks amazing
Defo heavy
I'll continue watching yours after I have recorded the detail parts of mine
Thank you for sharing your models with us
Keep safe ARP
Thanks my friend, hope you and yours are well too! Very heavy indeed, good luck with yours! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Maybe the tender is from a Princess Royal Class, or something similar,as the buffers don't match the loco, as the loco has the square buffers while the tender has the circle buffers
That is correct to prototype
In real life I guess it would have been... the model doesn't match the new Princess tender though, so I think it may be new tooled... perhaps not the chassis too, that looks like the same one as before!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Something I would really like to see in your reviews would be a DCC test along side your DC test. Have you ever considered adding that?
I would also be interested to see if that improves the torque, but why Hornby insist on using such cheap weak motors is beyond me.
@@eisenbau Agreed
It would be interesting, but then he’s kinda reviewing the decoder, and not the locomotive…
@@modelrailfan37 No. Thats not how that works. That would be like saying hes reviewing analog and not the locomotive. Its just an interface difference, and sometimes that matters with each and every model. Its good to test both.
@@dalecherne5377 true, he would have to use the same decoder each time though.
Looks as if the tender light is white when the front lights are white - surely wrong?
My dad said he rode on the prototype (he used to spot trains at Lime Street station). I kind of like it but not for over £200.
The other issue is that I barely make (equaling) 700GBP / month, as a railway engineer, working for the state railway.
First sixty seconds, gonna say it now, NO.
Shame, an inside Pacific would be cool to have.
hahaha! See if the video can change your mind or not! ;D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
OK, it's diecast (which doesn't bother me either way), but the reality is that this is quite a simple model - no valve gear, smooth casing, etc - all of which should reduce production costs. It should be _cheaper_ than their other diecast locos, not the same price as buying an Accurascale loco that comes already fitted with DCC, sound, large stay alive, etc. Count me out as a customer.
What is a 'Large stay alive' ?
It's basically a super capacitor that stores enough power to keep the loco going over any dead spots. It works with DCC and makes a massive difference to the smooth running of a loco over dead frogs and other track imperfections.
It's an interesting model of an interesting prototype. It was actually the only truly successful direct drive steam tubine locomotive, all other designs worldwide were withdrawn after only a few years, where this one basically the forward turbine had failed from wear from constant use.
The model is interesting, but like many newer Hornby releases it's simply overpriced
ok...very nice looking nodell...BUT performance is just not good enough....not enough power there...can't understand it...but hey....itsa"hornby"...enjoy...p.s. i won't buy one.....and it's not the price....
Your reviews helped me choose between the Turbomotive and the W1 when I was visiting from across the pond (I went with the Turbomotive, obviously, and I love it!) Thank You!
I have to say, as much as the working headlamps are a cool feature I feel it actually makes the model worse given that two of the three on the front, and the one on the tender, aren't removable. How do you change the headcode without massively damaging the model? Wouldve been better if they were removable, but for me it spoils what is otherwise a good, if overpriced, loco.
Regarding the price, one has to consider that Hornby had all the extra work of making and installing the steam turbines instead of the much simpler valve gear.....Oh. Wait.....
I've been looking forward to this review . Very nice but not worth the cost.
I hope one can turn the tender light OFF. driving a loco on a train with the locomotive showing a red whilst coupled to a train was a fireable offence for the driver involved. Also, the rebuilt Turbomotive (named Princess Anne), although mechanically a member of the Princess Royal class, had quite a different appearance from the others.
OBSCURE ? ? The thing that will make this model "Obscure" is the PRICE ! Converted to US dollars, Ouch ! ! (that's Ameri-Speak for Ouch).
NO THANK YOU, MATE !
Sam. Great respect to you & your videos as always, but i have had to give you, the thumbs down on this one. With all the defects you have found on this failure of a model, & at that exorbitant price, by the end you were actually praising it. Lamps not working, a piece of sponge doing God knows what, & to cap it all, they couldn"t even match the tender paintwork, or proofread their instruction leaflet. Give Hornby what they deserve, A GOOD BOLLOCKING !!! Over recent years, their products have greatly increased prices & many quality issues. Iv"e bought running motor cars for a fraction of the cost of this loco. ATB Mike.
Hi Sam - frankly, I think you've been too generous. Having seen your reviews of both, I can't say this looks a better model than a P2; doesn't run as well, and in terms of drawbar seems outdated. (On which note, Loco weight shouldn't affect drawbar connection. Torque maybe, but it's the loco doing the pulling, not being pulled, through the connection). It seems priced abour £30-40 too high, and underpowered even at that.
Still, I wouldn't have been able to form these opinions without your top grade review, so, as ever, many thanks!
-Chris
When Hornby make the decisions like not having a matching colour tender, not using a powerful enough motor, anything in the Steam Punk (I still don’t know what I Steam Punk is) range, it’s usually for cost reasons…but I can’t see how they make these decisions without being embarrassed…surely someone had to say “…but the cheaper motor will make the model look really, really poor….”
THE LOCO LAMPS
The two on the front Buffer Beam look to be fine.
I would suggest that the oneson the Smokebox Door and the one on the Tender look to be pretty much the same item, (slightly smaller than the ones on the Buffer Beam). Am I correct in this observation.?
If so, this would suggest that they are not intended to be as bright as the ones on the Buffer Beam.
Which I would admit is a bit strange, although not something to lose sleep over.
Are the lamps available as a separate purchase from Hornby...?
if so, it might be possible to replace the slightly smaller ones with two the same size as the ones on the Buffer Beam.
Just wondering.....
James Hennighan
Yorkshire, England
P.S.
It could be that with these lamps being a new feature for Hornby that they will refine them a little bit.
In truth its probably a slight difference in production standards.
Perhaps if they had factory fitted all of the lamps they would be tested pre-boxing, and likely all the same quality and brilliance....?
First, the price : it's German territory here, do we have the German quality too ? Well, not yet : the botched documentation is unacceptable at this price. And agreed on the complexity of the model : we are in the overall simplicity of a diesel engine, the price of an engine like the 9F is not justified.
Yes this is a nice model, but even minor, the quality issues are unacceptable at this level of price. Look at what Märklin/Trix, Roco or Piko do for the same price. We have an heavy metal manufacturing, lights and firebox glow and a decent mechanism, but the colours of the tender and the engine does not match, the engine-tender drawbar send us 30 years in the past, no NEM socket for the front coupling, rear light too dim to see and the usual gutless motor by Hornby, with the poor performances that goes with it... What's the use to manufacture the engine in full diecast/tungsten/depleted uranium for an outrageous price if the motor cannot haul her to a correct motion ?
No, she's not worth GBP 240, period. As is, i won't give more than GBP 170, if not GBP 150, to buy her. A no-go for me wait for a 30 to 50% bargain before buying her if you are interested.
Hi Sam. I can top your most expensive steam loco ever. I’ve recently bought a pre-owned Johnson 1P in crimson lake with no decoder from Hattons. It cost me £271 - an eye-watering sum! It was certainly in mint condition but the model railway world appears to have gone crazy!! Kind regards. Chris
I do not model British trains , however the C E O of Hornby made a speech in a documentary which knocked me off my dead - lazy ass and powered me into going into the model railroad industry so I have infinite affection for their leader all team members whom inspired me to be great and if you do not think their model is worth the price you are free to have the model custom built for $ 8,000 dollars , $ 10,000 and it may be perfect or not much better ? CHEERS ! are-U- nutz ! , this hobby was not built by mizers so go out of it jerks !
£125 for the recommended 21 pin dcc decoder, so £395 for one OO locomotive!😮 $670 CAD 🍁!!! We can get brass dcc locomotives over here for less!! Yikes.
See, okay, ever since this model was announced, I've had one prevailing feeling about it; it's a cheap and easy conversion of the Princess Royal.
Yes, the body is asymmetrical, but, the big thing, no valve gear at all. Just side rods. It's simple as anything for them to produce. Less complex than the original.
So, to then charge mega money for it, yet another "hornby tells us it's raining" (you know the saying in full) moment. Do correct me if I am wrong and this model is somehow super complex. I just..I can't shake that they saw a way to make an easy rebuild of their existing model.
prices are completely outlandish for these given their history of bad QC - no mention is made at all of where theyre made, mainland China is my guess?????
To use a car analogy, it's as if Hornby were aiming to make a Rolls-Royce, produced a Mercedes S-Class, but still gave it a Rolls-Royce price tag.
Good, but not £266 good.
£180 would be nearer the mark, and if they pried it to undercut the Accurascale die-cast loco, it would look like a real bargain, but for the motor issue. It needs at least twice the power being delivered by the current motor to operate properly. I suspect there's a limit to how much power you can extract from a motor that fits snugly into an OO model, and I suspect one of the reasons for the delay in the appearance of this was centred upon ever more desperate attempts to solve the power/torque issue.
A physically larger motor would probably produce more power, but might not fit in that chassis. Arranging for the motor to spin faster, but reduce the gearing ratio to increase the torque at the wheels, results in faster internal component wear, which would bite Hornby hard if people shelled out the full £266 on a model that exhibited reliability issues early in its life.
I suspect a lot of midnight oil was burned on this, and still didn't deliver an optimum solution.
One possibility would have been to run with rare earth magnets in the motor, but that would have jacked up the price even more. Neodymium magnets deliver a powerful magnetic field in a small space, but are *not* cheap, even if you're buying them in volume to reduce per unit cost.
I'm thinking overreach played a part here.
Those lights are a royal curates egg. Why is there a lamp on the rear of the locomotive, when the operating rules were VERY strict on what that lamp signifies; ie the rear of the ENTIRE train, whether its lit or not signalmen were trained to look for the lamp, not the light. As supplied Turbomotive shouldn't be hauling anything! Yet the front headcode lamps say its express passenger, or if you put the third lamp in its an empty stock working...but that code was made obsolete before Turbomotive was built. Hornby haven't done their research very well...its almost like they said 'lights are cool, lets stick lights on it.' but didn't bother to look up what those lamps actually mean. So we wind up with this weird contradiction which has been done really poorly into the (expensive) bargain.
It is true that a model of a more obscure prototype with limited liveries will be slightly more expensive than a more common prototype with plentiful liveries, but only slightly, at least for a larger manufacturer like Hornby.
If a manufacturer expects to sell say 10,000 of an obscure model when they would normally expect to sell 100,000 of a 'normal' model obviously the research and development costs are going to be 10x higher per model sold, but around £100 more per model seems excessive in the extreme.
Perhaps if it was a limited run of 1,000 models or something you could begin to justify that level of pricing, but even then it's still seems too much.
Gordon old
Could someone enlighten me please? Looking at photos of the prototype, the driving wheels have no balance weights, due to the turbine's smoothness eliminating 'hammer blow', yet the Hornby model has the weights. If they're using another chassis for £240 then that really isn't good enough, but am I correct in my observations?
When I look at 'high end' models I just remind myself that a Kato C11 is only (the equivalent of) 50 pounds. No sprung buffers though.
Yeah I'm with you Sam. I won't be buying this. And it's not because of the obscurity, geography or era. There is one LARGE standout reason I'm not buying it.
Mean I don't know 240 pounds is a bit steep I can get a Murphy models engine for 199. Or from Irish railway models a class when came out 189 euro too.
Hornby have now modeled two of the three locos damaged in the Harrow and Wealdstone disaster. The other is the Duchess class City of Glasgow. Seems a little ghoulish perhaps, but I'm sure it's not intended that way.
I'm guessing the turbomotive was an LMS experimental engine that possibly flopped and was scrapped?
Can you make your content inclusive by formatting the auto captioning into closed captioning please? it is extremely hard to watch it relying only on the auto captioning sadly (I'm Profoundly Deaf)
Saying Turbomotive was rebuilt into a standard Princess Royal is wrong. She is obviously designed around the Princess Royal design, but a lot of the new parts were Coronation class parts, and quite a few were unique too. And the crash involving her as Princess Anne led to a shortage of express locos on the WCML, leading to the building of the standard class 8 71000 Duke of Gloucester.
One thing to note is, the space for the 21-pin chip is rather small. How would you fit Hornby's own TXS chips (which you noted to be larger than NEM standard) into that space without heavily modifying the speaker?
I love obscurities, especially prototypes and one-offs like this. But the price is too high (even with all the diecast), and I'm not overwhelmed by Hornby's quality of late, hence I don't have either version of W1 yet, or the new 00s FGW liveried HST set (I want it as a 2+2), or a new P2.
Wow, i was so close to buying one of these... Then i seen that torque. I can't believe the manufacturers keep doing that. What's the point of having good weight when it can't pull itself? You should do a motor swap episode on this loco Sam!
Sam you have a massive collection
haha thank you!
Decent overall review here Sam, as an owner of one of these models my one being the BR black one I can say it is definitely worth the price being asked, it could be hornbys best locomotive to date and in my opinion it is, the features included on it are incredible the best one in my opinion being the lamps that light up on the front, I’m very happy with mine so in my opinion it is worth what is being asked for it, you may reject the excuse that one offs always command a high price but unfortunately to have these models of one off we have to be willing to pay.
Thanks a lot David - glad to hear you're so happy with yours - and I agree it is one of their best given all of the weight etc, great stuff! I only reject that models like this are unpopular and therefore bumped up in price to cover the costs - from what I've seen they're very popular!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think its a beautiful loco. And by having two different sides, you can pretend you have two different locos for almost the price of two locos. Depending on which side you're looking at.
My guess is you’re also paying for that fancy box. Not that it’s justified. But it reminds me of the big bottles of washing machine detergent that inflate the prices because of the massive hard plastic bottles they come in.
Go to Europe and go buy some large Continental HO locomotives buy some very well-known high-end brands over there. Go see how much you pay on average over there then come back and see if your Hornby is any different
Sam - my friend had his Turbomotive replaced as it appears the motor failed. The loco suddenly stopped when travelling in the forward direction causing some of the coaches to derail. Then, it would only run in reverse but after a few minutes the loco slowed and stopped completely. I am wondering as the standard motor appears to have been fitted coupled with the excess weight of the diecast loco body, we may see this issue highlighted with more customers models over the next few months?
Why does it Waddle on the test stand ?
Makes the roll on the tracks Realistic !
All that development? Take off the valve gear, modify the piston block and hey presto your princess becomes the turbo motive.. it would take about 20 minutes to do this as a one off