Just for clarity on your introduction, the APT-P was rarely run as a 14-car double set. The 14-car consist was just done a few times for press and promotional shots etc. Much more common was to have a shorter (2 or 3 passenger car) set on the southern end and a 5 or 6 passenger car set on the northern end. Sometimes with one and sometimes with two NDMs. There is lots of info on formations on the 25kv APT site. I think Hornby promote the 14-car formation because they want to sell more coach packs, but it is misleading to portray that as the regular service formation. Hope that helps.
Not many people (apart from Pete Waterman!) have the space for a 14-car train, but a 7-car set would indeed look good on a large layout with sweeping curves...only at the discount price, though.
@@ianjeffery6744 The 14 car double set ran only a few times. The majority of in service trains were either 2 passenger cars at the southern end, one NDM and 6 passenger cars at the northern end or, 3 passenger cars, 2 NDMs and 6 passenger cars. Shorter formations were also found right down to 2-NDM-2. So, really any formation is fine.
Is it just me or is the driver figure the spitting image of Frankenstein’s monster?! The new model is nice, but as far as a 5 car set goes, I can’t see that it’s massively better than the 1980s Hornby model, a hot rod that can be picked up for around £110 used. The new pantograph is way, way more realistic, but the old one, whilst not capable of DC catenary running, was sprung metal and would run under the wires OK. I think the value for money of the new one is still stretching it, even at discounted prices. I’m not sure that lighting is really needed. Most real trains barely register their internal lighting from the outside and therefore it seems a bit superfluous to me at least. Loved the video though Sam. Top work, as usual!
haha he really is - there's a moulding issue which makes it look like there's a bolt through his neck! It has a lot more detail and tech than the 1980s one - and I for one enjoy the lighting and correct length etc... but yes the lack of catenary running is very true! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Agree totally. I've got the ends, 6 intermediates and two power cars from the 80s sets (R543 sets with the non black windows). Cost me about £150 total (£75 for the mint, probably unused set with the Bernard Cribbins Record!) When they're going at speed you don't see much difference. I'd go for the old one any day, but I shall be fitting weights to it in the style of this new one to help performance.
15:40 - Nice to see British Rail giving the job of driving the APT to the Frankenstein creature. Spot on for the 'Suspicions Confirmed' department. 😆😆😆
I bought the DC APT 7-Car set about a year after launch. On the large layout at my local club, the APT struggled to get up a 1-2% incline on the overpass bridge. So soon after that, I bought the extra-powered NDM. After this second purchase, the performance and traction of the APT on the overpass were great. Then last year when the double coach packs fell below the fifty-pound margin, I purchased one to two packs per month until I made up the 14-Car set. It only gets run as a full-length train on the club's large layout for now or via an extensive-sized exhibition layout, but boy it is a sight to see running at its full length. Next year I may upgrade it to DCC Sound, but for now, I am happy with the APT as it is and how it looks. If you would like to try your set with a second NDM Sam, you can have a loan from one of my two and a coach pack to make up a 7-car unit to test them out. Better still you can borrow my 7-car set with two NDMs to test out against your 5-car set side by side, just ask me anytime. Oh, btw, it was a great review, better late than never, (even with a modern timetable) lol.
My engineering brain was going wild trying to work out the possible tilting mechanism and when you showed it ……….wow! So simple and effective, very clever indeed Hornby well done!
I presonally think the power car should've been an absolute monster. Givene the slowing down and the struggling of pushing the coaches. Maybe it could've been a little bit faster but thats just me. Great video no matter what sam!
Loved your presentation. My family an I travelled on the inaugural trip in December 1981. My son, four at the time was the youngest on the trip. It was an amazing experience and still have all the memorabilia handed out to passengers. We made an unscheduled stop in the Lake District to pick up Isla St Clair, co-host of the BBC programme The Generation Game. Still have the original APT set and may consider buying the new version.
Very good in-depth review of an iconic train set, the first time saw an APT set was in Cheltenham Model centre many years ago, it was an eye opener that stuck with me so when I got back into the hobby at the end of 2021 after a few decades away I knew I had to buy a set, I have the 2nd run model which could have been better but it has potential, Sam’s set is the 3rd run with most of the issues with the 2nd run addressed, I’m going to upgrade the lighting and interior on mine when I get time, I don’t believe another manufacturer will ever produce the APT in 00 gauge and this 3rd run will be the last so take advantage of the discounted coaches and accessories while they are available, thanks for sharing.
I bought the 5 car set from AJM Railways. I bought the rest of the coaches from Hattons and the second DMU. It cost me $1,500 NZ or £750 UK 🇬🇧 I'll need 4 dcc decoders. It was expensive, but I wanted to treat myself. It runs well as a 14-car set and it looks very impressive but once the seats are toned down, or the interior is improved, and fitted with passengers it'll look even better. I like it.
Hi Sam, not sure if you will read this amongst the hundreds of comments but here goes. I was amazed when Hornby announced a new APT and after being duped by DJM to support an all bells and whistles APT, I was desperate to get something worthwhile. Unfortunately I got a full set of the earliest run, with huge barrel capacitors in the coaches that didn't work and awful plastic couplings at the power cars. Worse still a lot of the intermediate coaches had to be sent back as the bogie frames had been moulded squint, causing the coaches to ride at all different heights. Also with the draggy pickups, there was no way a single power car and a dummy NDM (as advertised initially) was sufficient for the 7 car set, nevermind the full 14 car. I decided to bite the bullet and re-engineer my model, with through wiring, low friction axle pickups and DCC sound. Whilst doing this I chose to super detail the interior with tartan prints on the seats and details on the buffet and a more realistic paint scheme. It has taken me all this time on and off since release in 2020 to get a model I'm happy with. I was angry and disappointed with Hornby with their initial run and of course no option of swapping for the improved second run versions, as who would want them! Hope you enjoy your model, as I certainly didn't. Best wishes Neil.
I remember when the first batch was released, the giant capacitor was totally visible and was ridiculed by everybody. It's nice that they fixed it, but the reputational damage likely impacted the sales of the second batch
I was torn between this APT by Hornby and the APT-E by Rapido. Glad I went for Rapido as it has plenty of power, the tilt mechanism is brilliant and the DCC sound of the turbines is tremendous. Only downside is its rather long snout. Sticks out a long way as it goes around curves so had to 'adjust' a few things on my layout to get it to go round without hitting anything. Would be nice if you could do a comparison review Sam!
I picked up the 7 car a while ago in a sale and I've added a few extra pairs. The 7 car pack second motor car is a dummy, but I found on 3rd and 4th radius curves it ran fairly smoothly. The original issue didn't have the magnetic couplings for the NDMs though! If you even feel rich or brave enough though, the Rapido APT-E is something else. Much more complex inter-car couplings though.
Well!! That’s the Advanced Passenger Train!! It’s a very pretty train with a central power carriage!! And the five car train pack is pretty prototypical.
I am honestly surprised about not having the whole train wired together as that is a huge advantage with ensuring good pickup and smooth lighting. I have a Con-Cor Electroliner that has an 8-pin electrical connection between cars and uses bearing pickups. The wheels roll freely that way and the train can run with no issues on dirty club track even with an undersized motor that is connected to only one truck.
That's true, in comparison to other manufacturers like Piko, Roco or Märklin (which use only one decoder even for trains such as the TGV or ICE) the solution with 3 decoders seems a bit cheap and lazy to be honest. They could have easily adapted the couplings for conducting current, since they already went for magnetic ones.
Sam I have one of the original APT’s 5 car now dcc runs great cost £15.00 second hand about 22 years ago now well satisfied. Thanks for these great videos
Great review as ever Sam. The APT colours and design drawing was the symbol of the Rail Riders Club and its magazines,membership cards,wall charts and travel vouchers in the early 1980s so it always raises a smile seeing the box package. Never travelled on it so im not sure if the power coach in the middle had a corridor that allowed passengers to move through to the rear or front parts of the train whilst in motion. As for the model i do like the detailing,especially the body tilting seperation from the bogie and pantograph unit though im not convinced the electrical detailing on the top would survive an attack by a cats claw. I suppose to anybody looking to buy the question is if the 5 train pack coaches have reduced 50% since it's launch should they wait another year to see if they come down thurther. 😊
It was never given running in time and was unlucky to be both so ahead of its time as well as born at that time ~ suffering from the concerns/jealousies of the Seventies unions, being noticeably not an 'in-house' project it didn't stand a chance. Don't forget that its demise not only hastened the marvellous HST 125 (as you Adam Williams 192 say), but also it's the parent of every Pendolino train now to be seen across the world.
I got a 14 car set from the initial batch for my 50th. I was so excited to get it and then hugely let down when it arrived. I bought a second NDM put don't have the room to run it as 14 cars. The first sets don't have any doors on the coaches and you can see the giant resistors in the coaches too and they do not work so the lights go off immediately once the power is cut. The coupling you got in the bags are what came with mine.
Don't feel bad about not being able to run 14 cars. The real thing didn't normally run as 14 cars. That was done 2 or 3 times for press and filming. Hornby promote the 14-car consist to sell more coach packs (understandable but misleading).
Honestly got to say this maybe one of my favorite reviews, I actually don’t really like the APT, but I thought you’re review was fair, shows of your technical knowledge which a lot of people like to point out ‘sam doesn’t have a clue’, this is a great response without even trying. No hornby bashing which would have been easy giving the RRP, love it… so much I even clicked the affiliate link… luckily my wife pointed out I just spend £500+ on a rake of coronation coaches and a 1970s APT would look even more ridiculous on my colliery based layout than the coronation set… spoil sport
I bought the first release 7 car set and it ran fine. I have since added a second powered NDM and the rest of the carriages to make a full 14 car set. It runs very well on my layout but, at 3.5m long, it is more suited to a large layout.
I have mixed feelings about the prototype, it was in many respects a huge waste of money that was killed off before it could earn its keep. That being said, it could be argued without it we would not have the HST which turned out to be a legend. There are also lots of interesting formations that can be made up using the APT power car, some DTC coaches and the original prototype HST power car (Rails limited edition in 00?). In N gauge Dapol have done the entire prototype HST set, but nobody has done the APT. It’s often spoken about, but the size of the market is a doubt… Really glad you were able to review this, didn’t think it would happen! Best
Yeah I suppose you're right - we stand on the shoulders of giants, and this was an important stepping stone. I'd love to see this in N gauge! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I remember browsing the Hornby cataloges back in the 90s and didn't all the electric locomotives back then have metal pantographs that drew power from the over heads? I know plastic can carry more detail but a shame they are not as sturdy as they used to be
The pantograph on the 80s APT was metal, but it was not live (mounted to a plastic receptacle on top of the bogie) and it was really poorly detailed. DCC has obviated the need for live overhead in any case.
Fun fact when they tested the apt they had people from the press and they had a bit to much drink and they ended up being sick and they thought it was due to the leaning not the drink.
It made me sick and I definitely hadn't had anything to drink. I was 5 at the time though. lol There was a thing that the APT fully tilted out the curve and that would make people feel sick, later on they solved it by tilting less so there was still some sensation of cornering and this solved the sickness feeling and is also how the Pendolinos work.
G'day Sam Great review as usual. I dont have the new version, but i do have 3 sets of the old sets. Love the APT. Maybe if i can find a cheapish new set here in Australia, i might grab a set.
MY FRIEND GOT THIS FOR HIS DAUGHTER WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT AND BUILT A LONG STRAIGHT FOR IT SO SHE COULD GIVE IT THE WELLY IT NEEDED TO SHOW IT OFF AND A 4TH RAIDUS CURVE , SHE LOVED IT ITS BOXED UP NOW, CHANGE OF HOME, NO ROOM TO RUN IT, EXCEPT MAYBE TO BUILD A GARDEN LAYOUT FOR IT
That was a very fair review Sam. I think for the price, I would have expected metal pantographs which could pickup from catenary as well. A switch to swap between track and d overhead, could have been incorporated on the underside of the power car. Still, it’s a nice model and definitely very seventies 😄.
Hi Sam. We've seen more reviews about this product, e.g. on Everard Junction. The set usually went for ~450 quid in this configuration if memory serves us. Even at 300 it's simplistic beyond and above unsophisticated; a time travel back to 1970s from an aesthetic and engineering point of view 🤷 A well good review of course as always. Cheerio.
I have tried both 7 car and 14 car versions using DCC. For me, I have always had issues with de-railing on 2nd radius curves, especially with 14 cars. The issue was always at the joint between a normal carriage and an NDM. I suspect that some of this is due to the DCC compartment not being big enough. The DCC board and wiring can rub against the body when it tilts and sometimes this can be enough to leverage a corner wheel off of the track (the large 21 pin board is mounted on the underside of the fixed chassis, whilst the body of the train tilts around it). Never tried it analog - maybe I should? My layout is flat, so power has never been an issue. The other thing is maintenance. If you have to replace the motor, it's really difficult putting a new one back in. That said, I love the model.
Seeing this gives me hope we'll get both a Class 720 and Class 745 someday, so that I can emulate the Lea Valley Lines. ❤ Although, hopefully with better performance...
Quite nice, but the 1980s one was more powerful and I've twin motored mine, it absolutely flies.. also the one with the front cab black window surrounds is much better looking. 😊
I've run a 14 car set on analogue on a bit of a slapdash layout which wasn't nailed down on wooden boards and it ran surprisingly faultless. Can't wait to try it on the digital layout once it's eventually up and running
I thought they weren't a success because BR couldn't find Advanced Passengers for it. I think it was The Two Ronnies who showed a picture of a prototype Advanced Passenger (a chap on a railway tricycle :P )
Mine will cope with a 10 car set using one powered NDM. Beyond that it needs two. Two powered NDMs coped with all 16 vehicles I own (14 car set plus dummy NDM plus the prototype non articulated coach). Really fast in both cases. Yours is the second run batch mine is the first. My biggest peeve is the way Hornby sold the extra coaches. I really only wanted one of each type (10 car is perfectly fine for my layout) but no you had to buy in pairs and each pair being one from each end (all 7 cars of a half set are a unique type within the set, you would have thought BR could have used just 3, first second and resto LOL).
I've put a fuller explanation in a stand alone comment, but the 14-car double set only ran (at most) 3 times for press and promotional purposes. A normal service consist would be 8, 9 or 10 cars with only 2 or 3 cars at the southern end.
@@GDGRailway47712 I agree and equally none of the sets ever ran with the coaches all from the same set. They were generally mixed - although they tended to keep to one of each type coach per set (set meaning one half of the train). And Hornby's selling as pairs leads to both too many coaches and sets that never ran as such. I'm quite happy running it as a 10 car train which is both big enough and was quite often historical.
I reckon its performance could be made much better with DCC Concepts spring pick-ups, the ones that go around axles, like a spring, as long as one wheel is electrically connected to the axles.
@Sam'sTrains, their are two versions of the APT, the 2020 & 2022 version. R30104 is one of the improved 2022 versions. The 2022 version is an upgraded 2020 version, but both only have flimsy plastic pantographs. The 2022 version has improved how the lighting works, and the capacitors in the 2022 one are hidden. The 2022 & it's extension packs also have magnetic couplers. The 2020 with the less powerful motorised NDM & it's car extension packs don't have magnetic couplers, they have the couplers that you showed as the accessories in your pack. Just to add that the motorised car (NDM) in the 2022 version is imrpoved from the 2020 version. If you have anymore than six or seven cars, especially the cars to make a 14 car full length APT, the 2020 version needs a second NDM that is motorised. The 2022 version for the same length only needs one of the NDM cars motorised. Those extra couplers are just in case you want to use the cars with the 2020 APT version.
@@SamsTrainsThe 14 car 2020 version struggles with only one of the two power cars motorised. Buying a second motorised car would help. The 14 car 2022 version doesn't struggle in most cases with only one power car motorised.
Check out the latest railway modeller with Jenny Kirk trying to put together a hornby loco from the individual components. We say about prices being extortionate, but the sheer number of parts in a loco is mind blowing.
Sam the real APTs minimum radius was 300 foot which works out at 50inch in 00! my friend has a longer APT and minimum 790mm Kato track which is over 30.5 inch but it runs fast and true even better on the outer tracks! Once the wiper pickups wear down will work better maybe because of the capacitors half the pickups could be bent away from the wheels a bit
For me, multiple units are very much the attraction of smaller scales. Even in N, the full consist would be a bit much for most layouts, to be sure, but as a lover of MUs, consists are a hard thing for me to compromise on. The back-to-back motor cars are part of the fun, for me!
Now to people who complained that your review are "unfair" i disagree. Even if i don't own any model trains, in my opinion your reviews are fair, to both the manufacturer, retailer, and the customer. Even if those models are faulty from the factory it's not your fault, it was like that from the assembly line. And does not contribute to Price of the model. like the black b12s you review a while back, the retailers they don't know if the models themselves are faulty are not and they don't have the power to test a sample, there only job is to stock, and distribute those models. And sharing half the profit with the respective manufacturer.
I have the Rapido APT-E with full DCC sound. Again not that much separate detail (aside from the bogies) as it just doesn't warrant it. It does have a quite frankly insane amount of rivets though. Unfortunately you can see the coupling mechanisms inside the coaches on each end but doesnt detract too much from it because all the instrument panels are insanely detailed even complete with blinking LEDs on the instrumentation. It has both ends driven but only one decoder socket. The entire model has a full 8-pin DCC connection running throughout the length of the train. I'm not sure if I prefer that or having individual decoders because the APT-Es solution is incredibly complicated and difficult to assemble and disassemble. The tilt mechanism is a little bit different to Hornby's solution. The driven bogies are mounted in a way that they can freely pivot from front to back and they are mounted inside groves inside the chassis so the bogie tilts whenever it turns. The other bogies are essentially floating and able to rotate and pivot in all axis while holding the weight of the coaches and each car is connected via a biscuit that slots into the chassis which means it has some flexibility but tilts as a whole unit. I would be more than happy to send some photos of how it works and the interesting mechanism if you are interested
Ahh interesting - I have been looking at the Rapido one too, looks cool! Very interesting about the 8 pin connection running through the train - I'll be that is very complex and expensive for sure! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@sgkingly8392Thanks for clearing that up, its just you put that it has an 8 pin dcc connection which can be interpreted as you need an 8 pin dcc chip when actually it’s a 21 pin chip that you need.
Interestingly, I see an APTE set (the gas turbine version) available for £310, only a four car set, but there are two powered ends on that set (from Rapido)
Hi Sam , i have all 14 coaches and the test coach so 15 in total , one power car one dummy car , absolutely no problem , my layout doesn't have gradients, all level. Having watched this , i think there is a problem with your power car, it shouldn't struggle with just four coaches.No slow downs on the curves, 2-3-4 curves
Rapido managed on their APT-E to have a motor and speaker in each end all linked with only one decoder. I appreciate this isn't driven from both ends, but surely the lighting could all be linked in the same way.
Great review Sam, sadly it's out of my budget. Bit of useless info but my dad used to be part of the team that maintains APT-E then later in the development APT-P to which they needed a lot of repairs and maintenance obviously down to new type of mechanics of the train and ironing out problems of the components of the train as well.
I travelled on the real thing Glasgow to Preston in 1982 iirc. It was a fantastic ride better than the Pensolino though it was a bit noisy at high speed.
I bought the whole thing from Rails. 5 car set. The 4 additional coach packs, the instrument coach and i picked up an additional brand new power car 49002 on ebay. Two motorised power cars needed for the 14 coach rake. The whole lot for under £700. Bargain. Lovely model.
9:01 I'm surprised they didn't put the functional coupler where the detail coupling is. 15:28 I am glad they pre-fitted a driver figure, which kinda looks like Frankenstein's Monster.
those coaches NEEDED to have proper pinpoint brass bearing pickups and the motor coach needed a big DC-91 or big coreless motor with lead or tungsten for the weight, with the whole lot also needing at least basic springing to have pulled this off well. By using a dinky, gutless motor with a high gear ratio, Hornby shot themselves in the foot for making a high speed train, with a power car supposed to push up to 6 draggy coaches, with the motor coach weighing a lot less than my lead packed Hornby Gresley pacifics, doesn't bode well for something that's supposed to have as much power as 4 A4 pacifics. Clever as the design may be in a few areas, its clever in the areas that don't matter and a bit daft in the crucial ones.
The Class A4 4468 Mallard cost £8500 to build in 1938. The Flying Scotsman cost £7944 in 1923. We don't seem to get very much for our money these days 😮
haha I suppose that is true - if you look at what new builds cost today, we don't get as much for our money these days! The art of steam loco production is very niche and expensive! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wait so it tilts just by letting the bogie lift the chassis with those ramps and there is no return spring of any kind in sight... that begs for teflon lube on the contact surfaces or the motor will have a very hard time getting that to tilt. Any chance you can find a Fleischmann 4415 or 4418 to compare the tilt mechanism
@@SamsTrains Fleischmann did recommend lubrication of the tilt guide on the motor bogie for their tiling train, but that solution uses a metal chassis for the tilting part
Even the original was underpowered compared to TGV and ICE 1, which both having two locomotives in the train and 14 vehicles long. Modern thinking is to power each vehicle with smaller motors with smaller inertia for better acceleration and lower power consumption. However the historic model should have a better performance, possibly some lubrication, and current pick up redesign
I purchased the full 14 car set, with only one powered car in the middle. The other was a dummy. Surprisingly, it could do the scale speed of 155mph! Couldn't believe it. It was with DCC so with feedback, and the layout had fairly large radius curves. It looked incredible. However, as soon as the driving wheels started picking up dirt, it started to lose traction on inclines. So it is only possible to run 14 car set with one power car if your layout is spotless. Sadly, I purchased one of the original production run, so the oversized capacitor, which is visible from the outside or the additional coaches, doesn't actually keep the lights on and is useless.
Hi Sam, I bought one of these APTs and built it up to a full 14 car. I added an additional NDM (powered). I think mine had all 8 pin sockets on the DTs & NDMs, I guess Hornby did some mods for the second release batch. I have 4 LokSound V5s installed (2 are FX Function only decoders). I also had the original 5 car set in the 80's, They were not expandable. Great review!
The way you have gone about dcc fitting yours sounds very much like how I want to get mine done with sound but can I ask using this method have you had to reassign some of the functions to different numbers, I’m meaning things like the cab lights, on the function only decoders I would imagine that F1 is what switches them on and off but on the sound decoder F1 will turn the sound on and off, have you had to reassign some functions to different numbers?
I remember a set in the local model shop window back in the '80s with a note - "Works better than the real thing."
Dang bro that’s cold but it was actually funny 😂😂😂
Just for clarity on your introduction, the APT-P was rarely run as a 14-car double set. The 14-car consist was just done a few times for press and promotional shots etc.
Much more common was to have a shorter (2 or 3 passenger car) set on the southern end and a 5 or 6 passenger car set on the northern end. Sometimes with one and sometimes with two NDMs. There is lots of info on formations on the 25kv APT site.
I think Hornby promote the 14-car formation because they want to sell more coach packs, but it is misleading to portray that as the regular service formation. Hope that helps.
Not many people (apart from Pete Waterman!) have the space for a 14-car train, but a 7-car set would indeed look good on a large layout with sweeping curves...only at the discount price, though.
Yeah absolutely - I think 7 will be more manageable for most people!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@ianjeffery6744 The 14 car double set ran only a few times. The majority of in service trains were either 2 passenger cars at the southern end, one NDM and 6 passenger cars at the northern end or, 3 passenger cars, 2 NDMs and 6 passenger cars. Shorter formations were also found right down to 2-NDM-2. So, really any formation is fine.
@@GDGRailway47712 Thank you! As you say, scope for a variety of shorter formations.
Is it just me or is the driver figure the spitting image of Frankenstein’s monster?!
The new model is nice, but as far as a 5 car set goes, I can’t see that it’s massively better than the 1980s Hornby model, a hot rod that can be picked up for around £110 used. The new pantograph is way, way more realistic, but the old one, whilst not capable of DC catenary running, was sprung metal and would run under the wires OK.
I think the value for money of the new one is still stretching it, even at discounted prices.
I’m not sure that lighting is really needed. Most real trains barely register their internal lighting from the outside and therefore it seems a bit superfluous to me at least.
Loved the video though Sam. Top work, as usual!
haha he really is - there's a moulding issue which makes it look like there's a bolt through his neck! It has a lot more detail and tech than the 1980s one - and I for one enjoy the lighting and correct length etc... but yes the lack of catenary running is very true!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Agree totally. I've got the ends, 6 intermediates and two power cars from the 80s sets (R543 sets with the non black windows). Cost me about £150 total (£75 for the mint, probably unused set with the Bernard Cribbins Record!)
When they're going at speed you don't see much difference. I'd go for the old one any day, but I shall be fitting weights to it in the style of this new one to help performance.
It's not just you...
The flesh-coloured paint extends onto his cap. His cap needs painting in completely with a fine paint brush
15:40 - Nice to see British Rail giving the job of driving the APT to the Frankenstein creature. Spot on for the 'Suspicions Confirmed' department. 😆😆😆
I bought the DC APT 7-Car set about a year after launch. On the large layout at my local club, the APT struggled to get up a 1-2% incline on the overpass bridge. So soon after that, I bought the extra-powered NDM. After this second purchase, the performance and traction of the APT on the overpass were great. Then last year when the double coach packs fell below the fifty-pound margin, I purchased one to two packs per month until I made up the 14-Car set. It only gets run as a full-length train on the club's large layout for now or via an extensive-sized exhibition layout, but boy it is a sight to see running at its full length. Next year I may upgrade it to DCC Sound, but for now, I am happy with the APT as it is and how it looks. If you would like to try your set with a second NDM Sam, you can have a loan from one of my two and a coach pack to make up a 7-car unit to test them out. Better still you can borrow my 7-car set with two NDMs to test out against your 5-car set side by side, just ask me anytime. Oh, btw, it was a great review, better late than never, (even with a modern timetable) lol.
My engineering brain was going wild trying to work out the possible tilting mechanism and when you showed it ……….wow! So simple and effective, very clever indeed Hornby well done!
I presonally think the power car should've been an absolute monster. Givene the slowing down and the struggling of pushing the coaches. Maybe it could've been a little bit faster but thats just me.
Great video no matter what sam!
I think so too - it's not bad but it could have been more monstrous!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sorry I’m really new to trains. Is it possible to change the motor? Or remove all those pickups? Does it need them all?
Just seen that part of the video where it says you need the pickups lol
Loved your presentation. My family an I travelled on the inaugural trip in December 1981. My son, four at the time was the youngest on the trip. It was an amazing experience and still have all the memorabilia handed out to passengers. We made an unscheduled stop in the Lake District to pick up Isla St Clair, co-host of the BBC programme The Generation Game. Still have the original APT set and may consider buying the new version.
Very good in-depth review of an iconic train set, the first time saw an APT set was in Cheltenham Model centre many years ago, it was an eye opener that stuck with me so when I got back into the hobby at the end of 2021 after a few decades away I knew I had to buy a set, I have the 2nd run model which could have been better but it has potential, Sam’s set is the 3rd run with most of the issues with the 2nd run addressed, I’m going to upgrade the lighting and interior on mine when I get time, I don’t believe another manufacturer will ever produce the APT in 00 gauge and this 3rd run will be the last so take advantage of the discounted coaches and accessories while they are available, thanks for sharing.
I bought the 5 car set from AJM Railways. I bought the rest of the coaches from Hattons and the second DMU. It cost me $1,500 NZ or £750 UK 🇬🇧 I'll need 4 dcc decoders. It was expensive, but I wanted to treat myself. It runs well as a 14-car set and it looks very impressive but once the seats are toned down, or the interior is improved, and fitted with passengers it'll look even better. I like it.
Hi Sam, not sure if you will read this amongst the hundreds of comments but here goes. I was amazed when Hornby announced a new APT and after being duped by DJM to support an all bells and whistles APT, I was desperate to get something worthwhile. Unfortunately I got a full set of the earliest run, with huge barrel capacitors in the coaches that didn't work and awful plastic couplings at the power cars. Worse still a lot of the intermediate coaches had to be sent back as the bogie frames had been moulded squint, causing the coaches to ride at all different heights. Also with the draggy pickups, there was no way a single power car and a dummy NDM (as advertised initially) was sufficient for the 7 car set, nevermind the full 14 car. I decided to bite the bullet and re-engineer my model, with through wiring, low friction axle pickups and DCC sound. Whilst doing this I chose to super detail the interior with tartan prints on the seats and details on the buffet and a more realistic paint scheme. It has taken me all this time on and off since release in 2020 to get a model I'm happy with. I was angry and disappointed with Hornby with their initial run and of course no option of swapping for the improved second run versions, as who would want them! Hope you enjoy your model, as I certainly didn't.
Best wishes
Neil.
👏👏👏👏👏
This just after the first 30 seconds, obviously still not yet knowing how the review will go.
haha well thanks so much for the comment - hope you enjoy the rest!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I love the APT. Thanks for a great and fair review.
I remember when the first batch was released, the giant capacitor was totally visible and was ridiculed by everybody. It's nice that they fixed it, but the reputational damage likely impacted the sales of the second batch
never thought I would see the day you would make this video
haha me neither!
My dad used to service hornby fire protection in margate and he got me this train in bubble wrap back in 82.
Loved seeing a review on the APT!
Thank you so much! :D
I was torn between this APT by Hornby and the APT-E by Rapido. Glad I went for Rapido as it has plenty of power, the tilt mechanism is brilliant and the DCC sound of the turbines is tremendous. Only downside is its rather long snout. Sticks out a long way as it goes around curves so had to 'adjust' a few things on my layout to get it to go round without hitting anything. Would be nice if you could do a comparison review Sam!
Inside the NDM looks much heavier (more metal above the motor) than the 1st release with 8 pin dcc, and the magnetic coupling are an improvement.
Great review sam 👏 keep up the good work 👏
Thank you so much!
I picked up the 7 car a while ago in a sale and I've added a few extra pairs. The 7 car pack second motor car is a dummy, but I found on 3rd and 4th radius curves it ran fairly smoothly. The original issue didn't have the magnetic couplings for the NDMs though! If you even feel rich or brave enough though, the Rapido APT-E is something else. Much more complex inter-car couplings though.
Well!! That’s the Advanced Passenger Train!! It’s a very pretty train with a central power carriage!! And the five car train pack is pretty prototypical.
I am honestly surprised about not having the whole train wired together as that is a huge advantage with ensuring good pickup and smooth lighting. I have a Con-Cor Electroliner that has an 8-pin electrical connection between cars and uses bearing pickups. The wheels roll freely that way and the train can run with no issues on dirty club track even with an undersized motor that is connected to only one truck.
That's true, in comparison to other manufacturers like Piko, Roco or Märklin (which use only one decoder even for trains such as the TGV or ICE) the solution with 3 decoders seems a bit cheap and lazy to be honest. They could have easily adapted the couplings for conducting current, since they already went for magnetic ones.
Sam I have one of the original APT’s 5 car now dcc runs great cost £15.00 second hand about 22 years ago now well satisfied. Thanks for these great videos
that is crying out for factory painted panel lining
does bring back memories
That'd be interesting to see done! I can imagine!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review as ever Sam. The APT colours and design drawing was the symbol of the Rail Riders Club and its magazines,membership cards,wall charts and travel vouchers in the early 1980s so it always raises a smile seeing the box package. Never travelled on it so im not sure if the power coach in the middle had a corridor that allowed passengers to move through to the rear or front parts of the train whilst in motion. As for the model i do like the detailing,especially the body tilting seperation from the bogie and pantograph unit though im not convinced the electrical detailing on the top would survive an attack by a cats claw. I suppose to anybody looking to buy the question is if the 5 train pack coaches have reduced 50% since it's launch should they wait another year to see if they come down thurther. 😊
15:38 Frankenstein's monster is the driver! Look at that brow! I think his neck electrodes are still hooked up too.
hahaha! There's definitely something large and unhealthy looking poking out of his neck!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
He just has a really bad paint job!
Almost looks like Herman Munster or Socket from Carry On Screaming....
His hat needs touching up...
The driver looks like Herman munster.😊
I thought that, but you have beaten me to the comment 😂
@Pedro-lf4gr next time perhaps 👍
He looks terrifying... I'd be frightened to set a toe on board!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I think the driver is actually wearing a cap which is not painted properly.
I tought frankenstien 😂
It was never given running in time and was unlucky to be both so ahead of its time as well as born at that time ~ suffering from the concerns/jealousies of the Seventies unions, being noticeably not an 'in-house' project it didn't stand a chance.
Don't forget that its demise not only hastened the marvellous HST 125 (as you Adam Williams 192 say), but also it's the parent of every Pendolino train now to be seen across the world.
Hornby did do another run of these, the initial batch had flimsy plastic couplers, they switched it to magnetic ones later.
Yeah so I've heard - glad I got one from the new run!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I got a 14 car set from the initial batch for my 50th. I was so excited to get it and then hugely let down when it arrived. I bought a second NDM put don't have the room to run it as 14 cars. The first sets don't have any doors on the coaches and you can see the giant resistors in the coaches too and they do not work so the lights go off immediately once the power is cut. The coupling you got in the bags are what came with mine.
Don't feel bad about not being able to run 14 cars. The real thing didn't normally run as 14 cars. That was done 2 or 3 times for press and filming. Hornby promote the 14-car consist to sell more coach packs (understandable but misleading).
Same, and it looks like it will stay on the Display Shelf given the Performance.
😞
Great video Aucssion XPT just came out $1400 7 car set and $1650 for DCC
Honestly got to say this maybe one of my favorite reviews, I actually don’t really like the APT, but I thought you’re review was fair, shows of your technical knowledge which a lot of people like to point out ‘sam doesn’t have a clue’, this is a great response without even trying. No hornby bashing which would have been easy giving the RRP, love it… so much I even clicked the affiliate link… luckily my wife pointed out I just spend £500+ on a rake of coronation coaches and a 1970s APT would look even more ridiculous on my colliery based layout than the coronation set… spoil sport
I have the 7 car set and I’ve added 2 more cars and it runs fine. It’s a lovely set that I’m very happy with.
Glad you like it. Someone at my club bought the 7 car and extra driven and it looked really good at speed. I'd like one but no space.
Oh fantastic - bet the 7 car set does look good at speed! Yeah that's the trouble - even the 5 car set is massive!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
If I get one, my APT will be fitted with DCC Sound to be mainly run on the digital layout at the Hoddesdon Model and Railway Club.
You waited until the price went sub-£300? I’m genuinely surprised Hornby didn’t double the price given their recent form!
They wouldn't have been able to shift them - it's been 2 years so I guess they just let the trade have them cheap!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I thought a HST power car looked odd running solo but an APT power car on its own is a very bizarre sight!
I bought the first release 7 car set and it ran fine. I have since added a second powered NDM and the rest of the carriages to make a full 14 car set. It runs very well on my layout but, at 3.5m long, it is more suited to a large layout.
I have mixed feelings about the prototype, it was in many respects a huge waste of money that was killed off before it could earn its keep.
That being said, it could be argued without it we would not have the HST which turned out to be a legend.
There are also lots of interesting formations that can be made up using the APT power car, some DTC coaches and the original prototype HST power car (Rails limited edition in 00?).
In N gauge Dapol have done the entire prototype HST set, but nobody has done the APT.
It’s often spoken about, but the size of the market is a doubt…
Really glad you were able to review this, didn’t think it would happen!
Best
Yeah I suppose you're right - we stand on the shoulders of giants, and this was an important stepping stone. I'd love to see this in N gauge!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I remember browsing the Hornby cataloges back in the 90s and didn't all the electric locomotives back then have metal pantographs that drew power from the over heads? I know plastic can carry more detail but a shame they are not as sturdy as they used to be
The pantograph on the 80s APT was metal, but it was not live (mounted to a plastic receptacle on top of the bogie) and it was really poorly detailed. DCC has obviated the need for live overhead in any case.
Nice you get Frankenstein driving the train 😂
Fun fact when they tested the apt they had people from the press and they had a bit to much drink and they ended up being sick and they thought it was due to the leaning not the drink.
hahaha!! I bet that had the designers second guessing themselves!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
It made me sick and I definitely hadn't had anything to drink. I was 5 at the time though. lol
There was a thing that the APT fully tilted out the curve and that would make people feel sick, later on they solved it by tilting less so there was still some sensation of cornering and this solved the sickness feeling and is also how the Pendolinos work.
Sam, you should try the Piko ICE set, these are amazing!
That sounds cool thanks for the suggestion!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
G'day Sam
Great review as usual. I dont have the new version, but i do have 3 sets of the old sets. Love the APT. Maybe if i can find a cheapish new set here in Australia, i might grab a set.
I went in to Rails for the 5 car. They were all at the warehouse so I ended up with the 7 car. For £50 extra it was well worth it.
Blimey was that the only price difference? Well, well worth the extra £50 for 2 cars!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@SamsTrains yes, the 7 car was on offer at £350. Latest version too! Bargain!
MY FRIEND GOT THIS FOR HIS DAUGHTER WHEN IT FIRST CAME OUT AND BUILT A LONG STRAIGHT FOR IT SO SHE COULD GIVE IT THE WELLY IT NEEDED TO SHOW IT OFF AND A 4TH RAIDUS CURVE , SHE LOVED IT ITS BOXED UP NOW, CHANGE OF HOME, NO ROOM TO RUN IT, EXCEPT MAYBE TO BUILD A GARDEN LAYOUT FOR IT
"Got this for his daughter..."
Yeah... sure he did...
@@JBofBrisbane ITS IS TRUE SHE 17, HE REBUILT THE MOTORS 4 TIMES FOR HER AND ITS GOOD AS NEW
READY TO GO WHEN SHE GOS
It's a fantastic model, Sam. By the way, my mum has got me the Hornby 4F 0-6-0 in SDJR livery for Christmas.
Ooh exciting - I hope you enjoy it!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
amazing video sam
Dad got me this in 1982 i think it was, brings back some great memories, very expensive though
Ahh fantastic - that'll be the original Hornby one then? They still fetch a fortune today!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
They also came with a metal pantograph
That was a very fair review Sam. I think for the price, I would have expected metal pantographs which could pickup from catenary as well. A switch to swap between track and d overhead, could have been incorporated on the underside of the power car. Still, it’s a nice model and definitely very seventies 😄.
Hi Sam. We've seen more reviews about this product, e.g. on Everard Junction. The set usually went for ~450 quid in this configuration if memory serves us. Even at 300 it's simplistic beyond and above unsophisticated; a time travel back to 1970s from an aesthetic and engineering point of view 🤷 A well good review of course as always. Cheerio.
I have tried both 7 car and 14 car versions using DCC. For me, I have always had issues with de-railing on 2nd radius curves, especially with 14 cars. The issue was always at the joint between a normal carriage and an NDM. I suspect that some of this is due to the DCC compartment not being big enough. The DCC board and wiring can rub against the body when it tilts and sometimes this can be enough to leverage a corner wheel off of the track (the large 21 pin board is mounted on the underside of the fixed chassis, whilst the body of the train tilts around it). Never tried it analog - maybe I should? My layout is flat, so power has never been an issue. The other thing is maintenance. If you have to replace the motor, it's really difficult putting a new one back in. That said, I love the model.
Seeing this gives me hope we'll get both a Class 720 and Class 745 someday, so that I can emulate the Lea Valley Lines. ❤
Although, hopefully with better performance...
A review I genuinely didn’t think I’d ever see on this channel, I’m happy to be proven wrong
The real APT had/has a design like that one for the pantograph, to solve the issue of tilting and mantain the contact with the wire.
I thought the problem was solved by simply not tilting the powered vehicle!
Sort of, but it's cantilevered internally by rods attached to the tilting PC body. In effect, the base of the pan is stationary.
Quite nice, but the 1980s one was more powerful and I've twin motored mine, it absolutely flies.. also the one with the front cab black window surrounds is much better looking. 😊
So cool video sam!
Thanks Justin! :D
I've run a 14 car set on analogue on a bit of a slapdash layout which wasn't nailed down on wooden boards and it ran surprisingly faultless. Can't wait to try it on the digital layout once it's eventually up and running
I thought they weren't a success because BR couldn't find Advanced Passengers for it. I think it was The Two Ronnies who showed a picture of a prototype Advanced Passenger (a chap on a railway tricycle :P )
The APT gives me some kind of nostalgia hit. Like the blue Pullman model.
Definitely - it's in the same category for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review. I love the APT. I have one of the original 1970s train pack. Haven’t used it in a long time so I hope it still works.
Thanks David - ooh wonderful I've been looking at those - do those tilt out of interest??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@ yes. They tilted very well.
Mine will cope with a 10 car set using one powered NDM. Beyond that it needs two. Two powered NDMs coped with all 16 vehicles I own (14 car set plus dummy NDM plus the prototype non articulated coach). Really fast in both cases. Yours is the second run batch mine is the first. My biggest peeve is the way Hornby sold the extra coaches. I really only wanted one of each type (10 car is perfectly fine for my layout) but no you had to buy in pairs and each pair being one from each end (all 7 cars of a half set are a unique type within the set, you would have thought BR could have used just 3, first second and resto LOL).
Glad to hear that! Yeah I noticed they were all in pairs - tricky things to get your head around I found!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I've put a fuller explanation in a stand alone comment, but the 14-car double set only ran (at most) 3 times for press and promotional purposes. A normal service consist would be 8, 9 or 10 cars with only 2 or 3 cars at the southern end.
@@GDGRailway47712 I agree and equally none of the sets ever ran with the coaches all from the same set. They were generally mixed - although they tended to keep to one of each type coach per set (set meaning one half of the train). And Hornby's selling as pairs leads to both too many coaches and sets that never ran as such. I'm quite happy running it as a 10 car train which is both big enough and was quite often historical.
I reckon its performance could be made much better with DCC Concepts spring pick-ups, the ones that go around axles, like a spring, as long as one wheel is electrically connected to the axles.
The Pantograph is far superior on my original APT
@Sam'sTrains, their are two versions of the APT, the 2020 & 2022 version. R30104 is one of the improved 2022 versions.
The 2022 version is an upgraded 2020 version, but both only have flimsy plastic pantographs. The 2022 version has improved how the lighting works, and the capacitors in the 2022 one are hidden. The 2022 & it's extension packs also have magnetic couplers. The 2020 with the less powerful motorised NDM & it's car extension packs don't have magnetic couplers, they have the couplers that you showed as the accessories in your pack.
Just to add that the motorised car (NDM) in the 2022 version is imrpoved from the 2020 version. If you have anymore than six or seven cars, especially the cars to make a 14 car full length APT, the 2020 version needs a second NDM that is motorised. The 2022 version for the same length only needs one of the NDM cars motorised.
Those extra couplers are just in case you want to use the cars with the 2020 APT version.
That's very interesting thank you so much for sharing!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrainsThe 14 car 2020 version struggles with only one of the two power cars motorised. Buying a second motorised car would help.
The 14 car 2022 version doesn't struggle in most cases with only one power car motorised.
Check out the latest railway modeller with Jenny Kirk trying to put together a hornby loco from the individual components. We say about prices being extortionate, but the sheer number of parts in a loco is mind blowing.
Oh for sure - I've designed and built many of my own locos, it's definitely no joke!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam the real APTs minimum radius was 300 foot which works out at 50inch in 00! my friend has a longer APT and minimum 790mm Kato track which is over 30.5 inch but it runs fast and true even better on the outer tracks! Once the wiper pickups wear down will work better maybe because of the capacitors half the pickups could be bent away from the wheels a bit
For me, multiple units are very much the attraction of smaller scales. Even in N, the full consist would be a bit much for most layouts, to be sure, but as a lover of MUs, consists are a hard thing for me to compromise on. The back-to-back motor cars are part of the fun, for me!
Now to people who complained that your review are "unfair" i disagree.
Even if i don't own any model trains, in my opinion your reviews are fair, to both the manufacturer, retailer, and the customer.
Even if those models are faulty from the factory it's not your fault, it was like that from the assembly line. And does not contribute to Price of the model.
like the black b12s you review a while back, the retailers they don't know if the models themselves are faulty are not and they don't have the power to test a sample, there only job is to stock, and distribute those models. And sharing half the profit with the respective manufacturer.
I have the Rapido APT-E with full DCC sound. Again not that much separate detail (aside from the bogies) as it just doesn't warrant it. It does have a quite frankly insane amount of rivets though. Unfortunately you can see the coupling mechanisms inside the coaches on each end but doesnt detract too much from it because all the instrument panels are insanely detailed even complete with blinking LEDs on the instrumentation. It has both ends driven but only one decoder socket. The entire model has a full 8-pin DCC connection running throughout the length of the train. I'm not sure if I prefer that or having individual decoders because the APT-Es solution is incredibly complicated and difficult to assemble and disassemble. The tilt mechanism is a little bit different to Hornby's solution. The driven bogies are mounted in a way that they can freely pivot from front to back and they are mounted inside groves inside the chassis so the bogie tilts whenever it turns. The other bogies are essentially floating and able to rotate and pivot in all axis while holding the weight of the coaches and each car is connected via a biscuit that slots into the chassis which means it has some flexibility but tilts as a whole unit. I would be more than happy to send some photos of how it works and the interesting mechanism if you are interested
Ahh interesting - I have been looking at the Rapido one too, looks cool! Very interesting about the 8 pin connection running through the train - I'll be that is very complex and expensive for sure!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The Rapido APT-e is not 8 pin, it’s 21 pin and I fitted mine with the sound decoder recently.
@@davidstrains4910 the main decoder is 21 pin but the connection between the units is 8 pin
@@sgkingly8392Thanks for clearing that up, its just you put that it has an 8 pin dcc connection which can be interpreted as you need an 8 pin dcc chip when actually it’s a 21 pin chip that you need.
@@davidstrains4910 yeah, I meant it has an 8 pin connection running through the train, not that it takes an 8 pin decoder
Interestingly, I see an APTE set (the gas turbine version) available for £310, only a four car set, but there are two powered ends on that set (from Rapido)
Awesome video today Sam You should try and get the class 800 azuma really amazing model
Thanks a lot James - yeah I'd like to try that!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam , i have all 14 coaches and the test coach so 15 in total , one power car one dummy car , absolutely no problem , my layout doesn't have gradients, all level. Having watched this , i think there is a problem with your power car, it shouldn't struggle with just four coaches.No slow downs on the curves, 2-3-4 curves
Give her a chance, Sam!! It might be that she’s not yet been run in!! I might even get one of these!!
I found some additional original apt coaches that were modified to extend the original set, added another power car and it goes like 💩 off a shovel
Ahh fantastic - yep you'll be laughing with a second power car!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review by the way, thanks.
My next train I plan to get is the daylight g4
sadly couldn't watch it right when it was released since i was in the hopsital but now i can!
Rapido managed on their APT-E to have a motor and speaker in each end all linked with only one decoder. I appreciate this isn't driven from both ends, but surely the lighting could all be linked in the same way.
SAM this is a great looking train pack .
It is isn't it!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review Sam, sadly it's out of my budget. Bit of useless info but my dad used to be part of the team that maintains APT-E then later in the development APT-P to which they needed a lot of repairs and maintenance obviously down to new type of mechanics of the train and ironing out problems of the components of the train as well.
Thank you so much! Yeah I can't blame you - it's not cheap at all! Thanks a lot for sharing the info,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
How hard would it be to build a spring into the pantograph? But Grade D?
It looks like there is a spring… it just doesn’t spring 😂
I travelled on the real thing Glasgow to Preston in 1982 iirc. It was a fantastic ride better than the Pensolino though it was a bit noisy at high speed.
I bought the whole thing from Rails. 5 car set. The 4 additional coach packs, the instrument coach and i picked up an additional brand new power car 49002 on ebay. Two motorised power cars needed for the 14 coach rake. The whole lot for under £700. Bargain. Lovely model.
it looks just like the one i had in the 80s
9:01 I'm surprised they didn't put the functional coupler where the detail coupling is.
15:28 I am glad they pre-fitted a driver figure, which kinda looks like Frankenstein's Monster.
At speed she doesn't seem to struggle. Need to buy the two car addon!
those coaches NEEDED to have proper pinpoint brass bearing pickups and the motor coach needed a big DC-91 or big coreless motor with lead or tungsten for the weight, with the whole lot also needing at least basic springing to have pulled this off well. By using a dinky, gutless motor with a high gear ratio, Hornby shot themselves in the foot for making a high speed train, with a power car supposed to push up to 6 draggy coaches, with the motor coach weighing a lot less than my lead packed Hornby Gresley pacifics, doesn't bode well for something that's supposed to have as much power as 4 A4 pacifics. Clever as the design may be in a few areas, its clever in the areas that don't matter and a bit daft in the crucial ones.
The Class A4 4468 Mallard cost £8500 to build in 1938. The Flying Scotsman cost £7944 in 1923. We don't seem to get very much for our money these days 😮
Underrated comment 🤣
This comment is so brain dead.
Adjusting for inflation Mallard cost £448,582 and Flying Scotsman cost £403,546 in today's money
@@sgkingly8392 that's still 4 sets...
haha I suppose that is true - if you look at what new builds cost today, we don't get as much for our money these days! The art of steam loco production is very niche and expensive!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wait so it tilts just by letting the bogie lift the chassis with those ramps and there is no return spring of any kind in sight... that begs for teflon lube on the contact surfaces or the motor will have a very hard time getting that to tilt.
Any chance you can find a Fleischmann 4415 or 4418 to compare the tilt mechanism
haha no spring - just gravity and that's all! That's a good idea re lubrication though
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Fleischmann did recommend lubrication of the tilt guide on the motor bogie for their tiling train, but that solution uses a metal chassis for the tilting part
This is how I feel about Hornby's new IETs. I'm gonna have to wait for the price to go down significantly before I decide to purchase one.
Even the original was underpowered compared to TGV and ICE 1, which both having two locomotives in the train and 14 vehicles long. Modern thinking is to power each vehicle with smaller motors with smaller inertia for better acceleration and lower power consumption. However the historic model should have a better performance, possibly some lubrication, and current pick up redesign
I would call the APT Father of Pendolino. In fact, that’s exactly what it was when it came out. The original tilting train!!
I purchased the full 14 car set, with only one powered car in the middle. The other was a dummy. Surprisingly, it could do the scale speed of 155mph! Couldn't believe it. It was with DCC so with feedback, and the layout had fairly large radius curves. It looked incredible. However, as soon as the driving wheels started picking up dirt, it started to lose traction on inclines. So it is only possible to run 14 car set with one power car if your layout is spotless. Sadly, I purchased one of the original production run, so the oversized capacitor, which is visible from the outside or the additional coaches, doesn't actually keep the lights on and is useless.
You were right Sam. Rails have sold out of 5 car units now a couple of hours after your review
Had a ride on the real thing, thought it was pretty good.
That's wonderful! What an experience that must have been!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Congratulations on being an Advanced passenger back then.
I think those pickups should have been axle based but other then that great video sam! i always enjoy your reveiws!
Hi Sam,
I bought one of these APTs and built it up to a full 14 car. I added an additional NDM (powered). I think mine had all 8 pin sockets on the DTs & NDMs, I guess Hornby did some mods for the second release batch. I have 4 LokSound V5s installed (2 are FX Function only decoders).
I also had the original 5 car set in the 80's, They were not expandable.
Great review!
The way you have gone about dcc fitting yours sounds very much like how I want to get mine done with sound but can I ask using this method have you had to reassign some of the functions to different numbers, I’m meaning things like the cab lights, on the function only decoders I would imagine that F1 is what switches them on and off but on the sound decoder F1 will turn the sound on and off, have you had to reassign some functions to different numbers?
@davidstrains4910 I brought the sound files from DC Kits. They are set up so things like horns only operate in the correct direction.
I was going to purchase but decided to get an azuma better tooling all round