What is the Catholic Teaching on Fornication? w/ Christopher West
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2024
- 📺 Full Episode: • Asking Christopher Wes...
Christopher explain how our instinctual understanding of loyalty and marital vows backup the Catholic position on sex.
🟣 Join Us on Locals (before we get banned on YT): mattfradd.loca...
🖥️ Website: pintswithaquin...
🟢 Rumble: rumble.com/c/p...
👕 Merch: shop.pintswith...
🔵 Facebook: / mattfradd
📸 Instagram: / mattfradd
We get a small kick back from affiliate links. - บันเทิง
I asked once a friend who then recently got married, how does she feel now, being after _the_ special ceremony and all that, being now _married_ etc. She answered 'you know, actually nothing really changed, it's the same as it was before..." (they already lived together before marriage). She meant it in a kind of casual/positive way, but all I could think was how sad that was.💔 Oh, and btw they're not together anymore.
I had the same attitude before when I was a lapsed catholic. My then girlfriend and I lived together for a number of years prior to getting married in a church. She insisted we get a wedding ceremony as I preferred just a civil union. Lo and behold I thank her now for it now gives me so much value and meaning to be blessed by the church. I was blind then and may God forgive me for that sin
@@paloy3551 Proud of you brother.
Well damn.
@@robertdelgadocapetillo8684 Thank you brother. God bless you
Ooofff that's rough 😓
I notice that couples who have babies outside of marriage, don't often stay together. This has real life negative consequences on the children, like it or not. I completely understand why the church has a strong stance on this topic.
That is correct. I mean have sex but don't have kids outside marriage.
@@ferramirez4570 Sex outside of marriage still has disastrous spiritual consequences on the participants.
@@ferramirez4570How about do not have sex outside of marriage PERIOD!!!!!
Exactly it seems if it's not godblessed it NEVER works the way people would like it to.
I notice mixed race couples don’t stay together because it’s fornication
We need to abandon dating entirely and return to the practice of courting.
noooo
@@swebilboWhy not
@@maten146 cos seggs is fun
@@johnflorio3576 what’s the difference between dating and courting
@@Purpleinsides01 families are involved in the person's relationship is courting
Dear Christopher West, thank you so much for teaching Theology of the Body of Pope JP II - I believe it is crucial and timely revelation. In Jesus, Mary and Joseph.
13 years living together. Than, conversion and marriage last year. I can definitely say, there is a huge difference being sacramentaly married or just being a couple. We are living a life in faith now. I have never been so close to my husband.
I see your insinuations , but I do think and believe your marriage will fall crashing down negatively or positively I don't know. But I don't care I need to tell my sister to not live with her male love interest for when they marry their marriage shall surely collapse on them!
As a single 28 year old man trying to date in this weird hook up culture world is so hard... i basically have to assume every date that is not catholic is ready to hook up after 1 or 2 dates... and im a weak man... i have basically starved my self from dating because i don't know how else to stay chaste.
A lot of people with disagree with this advice, but, honestly, you just need to have a good level of self-respect. If the girl wants to have sex, tell her no and that it’s against your values. It’s tough in those situations because guys don’t have limitless access to sex like many women. But, you have to remind yourself that your soul is more important than a relationship - trust God and He will help in your discernment. I would suggest to still be proactive in your search though: you’re typically not going to coincidentally come across a “high-value” woman by doing nothing.
pray alot & fast brother, you got this 🙏🏼 Matthew 19:26 "But Jesus looked at them and said, ‘For mortals it is impossible, but for God all things are possible.'"
@@no3339 saying no to sinning is easier said than done when it’s literally sitting in your lap lol. I know it sounds dumb but damn I fail often when I’m in those situations. Just tired of the endless dating cycles. Dating would be so much simpler if girls were still the ones that say no to sex.
If I might suggest you something, is entrust your sexuality/intimate sphere of life and your dating life to Jesus in Mary!
I especially suggest rosary novenas (eg Lady Undoer of Knots), but honestly, you can do that even in a single act of giving it to God, for instance as your private intention during mass.
(I honestly think anyone should do it.)
Pray for it, pray for your future spouse, but first and foremost, entrust this to Jesus through Mary. I can promise you, she will not leave you without help.
I'm myself a proof of the power of such consecration, but in a bit other way (I have a celibate vocation). Long story, but I can't even begin to enumerate all the graces and guidance on my life path I got from consecration to Mary (to Jesus through Mary), and one of my intention was also about my intimate sphere of life, the effect of which was I got so much clarity and order. That's why I recommend it, also to those who have vocation to marriage, because I think everyone needs Our Mother's special and reliable assistance in that delicate sphere of life.
@@themanufan8date higher caliber women and make it clear from the beginning. And stop making excuses
Great wisdom for all Catholics to know. Thanks
Marriage, Sex, Babies. Go together and in that order.
Edit:
Chiseled in the body by God: I give myself to you freely. I give myself to you totally. I give myself to you faithfully. And I give myself to you fruitfully.
WoW 🤩 very well said !!! Thank you Christopher West !!! You are one of my heroes ever since I learned about your work in 2012 !
Vive le pape Jean-Paul Il, vive TOB , vive l'église et ses enfants qui proclament ces vérités que le monde rejette. Seigneur fait de nous des témoins courageux qui parlent par amour , avec amour pour leur frères.
Great stuff. Will be using this for our engaged couple program!!
This was beautiful ❤
I think you are doing a great job with these videos. Thanks for sharing! God bless!
Even Catholic women now will often want to have sex very quickly in a relationship. The thing is there’s no legitimate structure in the West for dating in a Catholic way, you are basically left to fend for yourself playing by modern rules. I got lucky insofar that despite cohabitating with a girlfriend, I ended it by marrying her. I couldn’t even stay chaste during the run up to the wedding. That’s on me, but I feel for young Catholic men and women who want to find a spouse because I know it’s just a difficult situation. There is no real Catholic structure. There used to be a means by which Catholic parents could help arrange courtships, but those days are long gone and what we have now is a mess. I would also add I didn’t think my Parish thought it was a very big deal either. The urgency seemed oddly lacking for us to get married.
Do they really 'want' it, or they just think it's what's expected of them? I had friends in college who would very quickly be sexual with guys, because they thought that's how the dating is supposed to look like. It's not like they really wanted it as their own desire, but they didn't question that social expectation (or rather their imagination of the dating process). That was also not dependent if the guy actually expressed that expectation. In fact if he wouldn't, they would start worry if he's not interested, because they thought any man just expects it. They also didn't really enjoy these intimate encounters, they did that more from a sense of obligation. It's totally false programming.
I'm not saying all women are like that, but that's some of those I met. To me it was striking and shocking (I came from a more traditional country and migrated to the West, needles to say I was so shocked at more casual hook up culture etc. Now it's unfortunately more similar where I'm from, but back then, it was shocking).
@@joane24 I agree that most probably do it because they believe it’s expected of them. I believe many young Catholics default to the modernist way of dating because there really is no Catholic system at all anymore. I don’t mean to excuse any sins, but from a practicality standpoint the Church has to tackle the topic in the future. The silver lining and one small good thing to come out of the present situation is at least Catholic ethnic groups are more united and intermarrying. In the past an Italian boy would usually be set up with an Italian girl for example. Now almost every young couple in my parish is mixed and I see people getting along well, whereas even in the 90’s there were some walls between ethnicities, even within local parishes. We will have an Italian or Filipino day at my Parish and just everyone comes now, whereas in the past it would be just Italians or just Filipinos, and that’s largely because a handful are intermarried and pull along other family members.
I respect the fact that you went through that and still recognise that things were no ordered rightly, I feel that a lot of people going hrough this would want to say that it's perfectly normal or that it's just the time we live in.
Some parishes actively seem to be trying to get this right. Specifically in getting (back) the right notes for reverence and starting and strongly supporting Young Adult groups. And likewise YA fraternities, sororities, and social events. It's not enough to say it: do it. These aspects cost a little bit of time and a little bit of money (offset by cover costs and going Dutch, though Youth Ministers are usually a paid position), but the dividends are massive (more people of all ages, from newborns to the very elderly rejoicing).
Furthermore, like the cathedrals I've been to did, you can draw on adults for altar servers and the like, productively deconflicting around more recent issues between the clergy and laity. And it provides a clearer path to discerning vocations (religious life or married life).
@@Electric_ A bit side topic, but it's very interesting what you wrote about the ethnic/migrant communities! I've actually did a small ethnographic study (doing an anthropology degree) researching some migrant religious communities in my city, and they mostly were 'purely' 'ethnic,' however, there were few instances of broadening the participation through marriages, 2nd generation migrants, etc. So yeah, I'm just interested about the subject;) Of course it differs everywhere due to local, cultural, and historical contexts (what is the religious/interreligious history, history of migration or of ethnic groups, how they relate to the society as a whol, etc.), but that's what makes it interesting to research;)
Make it even more clear by simply calling it what it is. Sinful, unholy sex!
In Christ,
Andrew
He’s willing to have sex with someone he is not married with. *heart dropped*
I think this talk provides eye-opening insights into the wonderful design and creation of God regarding marriage, answering many questions about this profound mystery. Sadly, there's a significant gap between these teachings and modern perspectives. I've encountered people who find it very difficult to accept, viewing it as an out-of-this-world fantasy.
I also believe that merely being converted isn't enough to grasp such teachings; perhaps God grants the grace and conviction through the Holy Spirit to open hearts and minds to receive them.
Finally, I find it puzzling why some traditionalist Christians consider the theology of the body diabolical, as if programmed to reject everything spoken by Popes after Vatican II. It's sad that the body of Christ is so divided. :/
It's really good and true what you are saying!
Really good video - very crystal clear and stimulating.
Beautiful.
Would you please do a video on kissing and cuddling before marriage? What extent is allowed or is it entirely wrong also?
I pray God brings into my life a man who is willing to wait till marriage for sex. Catholic match has helped bring good candidates. I have friends who shame me and say “ugh- you will never know what you missed out if you don’t have sex before marriage -ideally with more than one you so you know ” it makes me sick that this is how they think . All divorced
Wish your videos reaches each and every youth. Even I feel it should be made clear that "sex before marriage instead of sex outside marriage" in our teachings for better clarity and avoid the confusion.
Very good, but why only 10 minutes
Please do more ABOUT NO SEX BEFORE MARRIAGE for parents to teach their 12- 19 year old ( & older children ) as the world needs to hear this THANK YOU Thankyou Thankyou 🌺🙏❤️
How about talking about divorced catholics on their 40’s/50’s and divorced due to adulterous partner? Im not sure if i ever want to marry again but i enjoy sex and Im feeling amazing now. Can we talk about that?
Answer: Don't. ;). Next!
"It's not likeable word it's not likable thing Will!" - A Man for All Seasons
Awesome.
Am glad i never did it and have kept myself clean out of relationships until now...am 33 ..being a guy I was tempted manytimes...but when I was 7 I read it in the Bible it is a greatest sin...
Great job. I thought man who want to stay chaste is extinct.
While it is always controversial to point this out, because it does involve race, the truth of it is plain to see and it is educational. The statistics show that Black people have the highest percentage of their children out of wedlock, with Asians having the fewest. Whose marriage rates are more successful? You guessed it, Asians. Additionally, who does better on social markers of success (higher academic achievement, more professional success, more generational wealth, and much lower rates of incarceration and murder per capita)? Asians beat Blacks in all categories to a significant degree. So the acceptance of premarital, or to use Christopher West's term "non-marital sex", has many negative repercussions outside just the dissolution of marriage. In fact, of all the things that are commonly ascribe to Black culture's underperformance in the United States, none is more powerful than Black culture's embrace of promiscuity.
True. The dumb ones will blame it on racism though and not on themselves.
True. The dumb ones will blame it on racism though and not on themselves.
True. The dumb ones will blame it on racism though and not on themselves.
It's culture. African-American culture is toxic towards the family. Go to Africa and they value family there. Not race, it's culture.
Someone needs to teach you the difference between correlation and causation.
Best talk. Worst thumbnail ever lol
This. Whoever made it should be fired.
You guys couldn't find any other type of image to use as a back drop? Seriously?
What’s wrong with it?
@@Fred_Berg "The Church discourages with all the arguments at its disposal, for moral and hygienic reasons, unions between whites and blacks…"
Msgr. Francesco Borgongini Duca
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt but maybe it's because they equate interracial with fornication idk
@@insanoibro6331 What in the what are you and ciscorn talking about.
1:15 I don't agree that this is an adequate summary of the entire gospel, not sure how much thought went into the statement though
I think that's a beautiful summary. It gets closer to the core of the message. Of course we need to know that we're fallen and in need of a savior, and this savior is Jesus. But even more fundamentally, we are striving towards loving each other again as God loves us. We need a savior because we don't love each other like God loves us and the savior is what will bring us there. Seems like a beautiful one sentence summary to me!
@@drewwitte8473 creation of man begins with love and marriage in Genesis and ends with the marriage of Jesus Christ and His bride the Catholic church.Everything else in between Genesis and Revelation is all about the regeneration of God's family,the Church.It's all about loving God and your neighbour,the two commandments of God.
I understand that sex has a marital meaning and that you can’t express it truthfully if you are not married, but I struggle to remedy the innate thought that since sex is also a language to express love to our partners, if the love is true, then it shouldn’t be a problem to express it in a non marital context, right? My partner and I currently struggling to address this situation. Would it be better to understand the marital commitment as the ultimate way to express love, and sex is the gift that is given to us by God?
Pardon my apparently premature attempt at answering your question: If sex has a 'marital meaning', then I think it follows that the "only" meaning sex has is "marital". Understood in this way, that "sex" is a sign language, or LANGUAGE OF THE BODY (St JohnPaul II) then it should follow that the ONLY kind of love that SEX expresses is MARRIED LOVE.
And Married love (according to God's design for Marriage) should ONLY be love that has reached the extent of being free ("flowing from the desire of the heart" and without external compulsion or necessity), total (completely self-donating and unreserved), faithful (permanently exclusively and mutually committed) and fruitful (allowing all the natural consequences of your love for each other {which may include children, etc} flow from, and grow and flourish through that same love)
❤❤️
What about people who are too old for sexual interaction?
Mature seniors who are widow or divorced with no intention of marriage, is it a sin to engage in sex? Is it a moral or vinial sin?
Would you get a copy of the Cardinal’s recently discovered book and discuss the implications.
Ain't nobody gonna touch that round here with a 10-foot cattle prod. 😅
@@generic_account2138 I’ll bet.
You would have to go to confession after reading it to get the stink off you.
@@ellem6050 I’m as angry as I was back in 2018. Confession tomorrow night. Words stick in my brain. So nope won’t even be going to the pages.
Whats that?
I would love for u to talk to 2 of my former friends.
They tried everything to get me to abandon my values and lose my virginity. :( (they used "medical reasons" to tell me why my decision is "wrong")
@@ismae-rienne4991 as far as I am aware (but not for sure), the reason why the organs end up getting medical problems when not used is because they are used for the ultimate good, which is procreation. The reason why, unless you are a monk or priest, you need to do "it", is because you are subconsciously seeking the ultimate good and not wasting it on something trivial. I think this is one of the interviewed guy's videos.
It's like playing with food and being hungry, and eating it and being filled.
Why is it a black and white couple in the preview image?
Why do you care about the skin color you a racist?
@@emmanuelluis2214
"The Church discourages with all the arguments at its disposal, for moral and hygienic reasons, unions between whites and blacks..."
Msgr. Francesco Borgongini Duca
Why does it matter
@@raphaelsterk9802 coz it’s like woke advertising
@@Beanbag777so if I’m tracking without you. You don’t have a problem with interracial marriage. But since the world has gone nuts with “woke” you don’t like any image a woke person might also like? It’s also quite woke to be a little nuts on environmental issues…..are you going to start throwing your trash in the gutter, because some hippies are doing a litter clean up event?
My question to Chris is what about after a divorce and one has had their children. I am single, 62 yo and want a relationship. What then? I am at a loss for knowing? Can someone answer this?
My understanding is if your married in a catholic sacrament of marriage you CANNOT get divorced as in the eyes of god you are bound,in civil matters you can divorce but cannot remarry as your still married in catholic sacrament, only way you can is to get marriage annulled from the church or death... I’m in the same situation too haha
@@heyitsedz1785 that is pretty much it. If you had kids an annulment is not possible. Si you'll need to live a chaste life and will only be able to remarry is you become a widow.
@@gerardorosiles8918 That’s not correct. The presence of children does not preclude an annulment. In fact children are largely irrelevant, since annulment deals with the original state of the relationship.
The first concern would be whether or not your marriage was valid. Talk to your parish priest about the possibility of annulment. It’s a process, as it requires an exhaustive examination of the circumstances surround the marriage.
In any case, though, sex outside a sacramental marriage is not a morally tenable option. I’m not completely sure what you mean by “relationship,” but a sexual component requires a the Sacrament of Matrimony.
@@gerardorosiles8918 thanks for replying, I'm happy though living a chaste life, love Christ and Mary, God bless you
I dont think his argument truly leads to that. Oh you're having sex with a non married person which will or possibly lead to cheating. Completely stupid but Idk i also hear what he is trying to say. Very ng
Next, do non-sexual marriage.
If a wife can divorce her husband at any time - and take his house, money, children - marriage no longer exists.
Holy Matrimony is a Sacrament. It places an indelible mark on your soul that no power but God can remove
The secular version is certainly dead and gone. It’s a bit of a shame that the Church forces us into the crazy contract devised by the same State that approves every indignity against the Sacrament of Matrimony.
@thehungarywaffleinc.7775 A wife can seize her husband's possessions and children at any time - and have him imprisoned for not continuing to pay, indelibly.
@@fantasia55 divorce is kind of like transgenderism. It doesn’t exist
Have you considered that there are women who won’t do that even if it’s an option? Women who will love you for who you are and not for any material possessions that you have even if it’s an option? I’d think that marriage is great
truth If you are wondering about the question of whether your sexuality is a sin or not, I welcome you to consider the following thoughts for clarification. Let’s look at some basic fundamental facts based on extensive research & ongoing R&D. During fetal development a verity of biochemical agents are introduced which determine the development of the fetus. Major agents such as testosterone & estrogen & a host of others agents determine size, weight, hair color, eye color & sexuality along with a host of other traits. Variations in the amount & timing of the introduction of these agents have a major effect in our development. The fetus is a passive participant & has no influence in these matters. Sexuality, for example, & all other secondary traits are thus given to us. Well, this begs the question, is homosexuality a sin. If your religion or belief system states that it is, then there can be no argument. These are the rules based on this system’s dogma. If you accept this system, you must accept the rules. This is your only choice.
If, however, you are in a belief system based on logic, reason, observation & common sense, the conclusion is totally different. Replacing ancient religion & mythology with reason leads to another conclusion. Leaving religions that use condemnation & ridicule for control, can be the first step in becoming a true human being minus any imposed or fabricated guilt. There exist many variations of human sexual expression. When you leave various ancient religious beliefs behind & chose knowledge based in research, you can see & understand the true nature of humanity. You leave ignorance, hatred, & prejudice behind. In the book Gay Straight & the Reason Why by Simon Levay PhD, explanations regarding this aspect of humanity are clearly explained & is based on research & not ancient text which had no benefit of understanding humanity. I highly recommend it. Being gay is no more of a sin than having red hair. They are both based on genetics & clearly not a sin. There is nothing wrong with you. This is the true choice. Peace
Those who argue
Sex is ok outside of marriage .
Suffer the spiritual ramifications..many scripture. About marriage and sex..No marriage and sex..Proverbs 5 : 3 -5
6 24:26..6 32. 21. 26'27. Read the Bible
Bergigolo is willing to bless any relationship - marriage is not needed now, as well as Christianity.
Stop. Go read the document and stop spouting tabloid headlines.
I think that Pope Francis teaches that fornication can be blessed.
I’m sorry but if you’re engaged to me that’s as good as marriage.
@@Demonoicgamer666 engagements breaks up all the time. Either person is completely free to end that engagement up until they say I do. If the other person breaks off the engagement with you, you won’t be able to justify: well, I didn’t bank on them doing that so it’s okay that we had sex.
Fornication can’t be blessed, non-married, remarried or gay.
They say we stay single we still go to hell.
I meant can’t, typo
Im so glad im not religious... miss out on so much fun....
@@swebilbo you have fun which ends quickly. Committed couples have fun long hours before and after they had hot fun in bed. Your world is poor while the religious is way richer, juicer and more interesting! I’m so glad I’m not non-religious.
The unhealthy fascination of all these bigots for what happens in people's beds is absolutely incredible. Don't they have smarter things to do with their lives?
Go tell God . He said it first
It’s one of the most important things in the world. I can’t think of a better subject
It's important to talk about it as society is fascinated with s3x and has an unhealthy view of it. We need a healthy view to balance it out.
@@jaqian Absolutely. Our media and culture is obsessed with sex, in an unhealthy fashion. We need a counter cultural perspective.
don’t you think it’s also crazy how hyper sexualized the media is? if anything this isn’t fascination but addressing it. social media is fascinated with sex and bad views of it.
Don't be silly. You're not breaking a vow before you've made it. Also, the vow is to this person! I could as easily make the case that I'm so committed to this person that I'm willing to live the married life even before the wedding makes it official. At a time when sex led more certainly to babies, your argument held more weight. Can you really say that in a committed but not marital relationship with birth control, sex isn't an expression of love and therefore not, on balance, in harmony with God's will? Sowing the fear of infidelity seems just cruel to engaged couples. In the light of the overwhelming number of people who have not let the (admittedly) perfect be the enemy of the good. Who is to say that the Holy Spirit isn't guiding the Church's teaching through them?
That is a matter of external/internal forum. But anyways, Church teaching is Church teaching. It can be a hard pill to swallow, but that’s what separates The Church from the world.
and yet, a divorce rate well over 50%, sorry ricky, your argument is dead in the water
Relationships have been broken during engagement, so saying "committed relationship" is quite dishonest, and secular at the least.
Yes, i can say it is not an expression of love. Sex can be an expression of selfish pleasure, especially since there's an assumption that "we just couldn't wait til after the wedding", implying that it was an impulse of desire and not true, ordered, love. Also, birth control is sinful: out of the question come on.
And you can't also let the exception to the perfect be an enemy of the good. People so often use imperfection as a way to dismantle rules and righteous virtue, which is why ultimately your comment simply screams: "I am not Catholic, and i reject Catholic teaching!"
This is the doctrine of the Church which derives from Scripture. So...
“A committed but not marital relationship with birth control…”. But such a relationship makes a point of avoiding true commitment.
I refuse to date. It’s so very sad. Men expect so much from you. It’s a nightmare. I honestly think I have to be celibate forever. It’s better than being involved in what’s out there. They sleep with u then throw u away, on to the next one.
Can you join some Catholic organisations and hopefully meet good Christian men?
So long as you have such a misandric view of men I think single and celibate is a good track for you.
I think Tim & StephGordon have started a dating app? And going to the TLM is a good way to find partners who are/working to be(as we all are, right?) good Catholics who follow Church teachings, dogma, & traditions