Why Juno is Hard Meta - The Most Aggressive Backline in Overwatch
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ย. 2024
- I am a Professional Coach that has worked with teams such as War Pigs and Deimpero/Quick eSports. My goal is to bring my pro-team knowledge into the hands of players, and become one of the best educational creators on social platforms. If you want to follow me and keep updated, make sure to check out my other socials or my Discord.
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Overwatch, OWCS Pacific, OWCS Tournament, Juno, Ana, Overwatch Juno, Overwatch Ana, OWCS Juno, OWCS Ana, Juno Gameplay, Ana Gameplay, Pro Overwatch, OWCS League, Pro Overwatch Analysis, Pro Overwatch Breakdown, Overwatch Pro Match, Overwatch Strategy, OW Coaching, OW Pro Coach, OW Juno Guide, OW Ana Guide, Juno Playstyle, Ana Playstyle, Pro Juno Gameplay, Pro Ana Gameplay, Juno Analysis, Ana Analysis
appreciate you recognizing your mistake on saying Juno would be outclassed by everyone, love u vids
I will always come back honest when shifts in the meta occur and my initial takes turn out incorrect :)
@@Coach_Ocie much respect dude
Those buffs did some wonders for her haha
Edit: Also mad respect for admitting your first impression was wrong and explaining why she is strong after seeing the pros play her.
I prodded her about this on stream and she was exactly the same way on the spot. Full mea culpa, very respectable
True, those buffs were insane. Almost every part of her kit got buffed
@@DarthCookieOW Its two out of three patch notes being a nerf considered a buff now?
@@notGeist are you retarded? Can't you read?
Just look at her state in the playtest and then see what got changed for her release. She literally got gigabuffed in every single aspect of her kit, except the 250 to 225 HP change.
its funny how 50% of the reason why juno is meta is just because dva is insanely busted right now
Well the good news is that even if Dva is nerfed, it means Juno’s survivability will be better against her. Since it seems a lot of people complain about Dva and Sombra when it comes to playing Juno. Although imo Sombra isn’t that bad to deal with if you stay close to your team
Regardless this is talking about a hero taking the spot of another hero that hasn't had any competition for his niche in years. Even if the main reason she's used is another heros viability it doesn't change the fact that Lucio is not the default option anymore which is just really exciting
@@hanin4438Juno Lucio is still a good comp tho
It’s the stay the hell away from the enemy tank meta!
@@ibraxiv-_-6653as much as I want this to be true, it's kinda convoluted
I don't think Ocie was wrong, her lacklustre first impressions were based on the fact that she seemed like a utility-based healer without the proper utility. After buffing her healing + firing rate, she has essentially become an ultra-fast poking hero who can get her ult faster than anybody (her ult was buffed too), and then snowball from there. She is just a much better character than before.
Still played her that way before the buff, a few number changes never mattered
The only changes after release were tiny, everyone keeps talking about them like some massive thing but they really werent
@@Piggehh going from 8s to 6s on her glide was a big deal for her survivability.
Nah, the changes didnt change anything since her raw output was toned down with the fire rate buff.
You all just started complaining right out the gate when people were still experimenting.
I remember people crying for her to get a self sustain ability cause how "easy" it was to kill her.
As someone that actualy played her it was obvious she had tons of survivability.
@@awezumifyNo, this was a Great buff to her being able to stay in the fight longer.
Juno required you to back of a lot, but with this buff the cycle became faster.
🗣️🗣️🗣️“THANK YOU COACH OCIE”we all say in union
One major reason for Juno being meta is the ability to turn Dva into a mach 3 torpedo and healing her from afar at the same time. She is just insanely good at multiplying the value of the raidboss tank, while being a good healbot with very good mobility.
This is just a parade example for mobility creep combined with the fundamental issue in 5v5.
Speed boost the overturned tank so they can 1v4 the backline. Throw out ultimates like candy and it doesn't really matter. At least a character like Lucio needs to commit to get value, Juno just sits in the backline generating value. Why is Juno's ultimate Tree+Kitsuna? How many hotscan heals are there? Ana (while scoped), and Juno while she flies around at high speeds. Why does she have an auto aimed, multi target, ability which can heal for over 500 health and deal over 400 damage in one use?
This video honestly reinforced everything I hate about Juno.
@@Fam0usFarm3ryou are doing the practice range meme
@@Fam0usFarm3rGuys!!! why can widow and hanzo 1 tap while ashe has to 2 tap???
guys!!! why does mercy get a revive on cooldown??? she’s negating a pick and denying skill expression!!!
GUYS!! WHY DOES MEI HAVE REAPER FADE BUT ALSO HEALS???
TELL ME WHY!
@@boom-jr8vi Well, widow and Hanzo are much harder to hit, are very reliant on their head shot to do much. Ashe, on the other hand, has much more safety and is able to poke around corners more effectively, and has a stronger ult to make up for those issues.
Mei gets a heal because she cant move while shes in block, and no teleport.
Mercy is a dogshit character, so not sure what you are trying to say there. Yes, rez is terrible idea for an ability, thanks for agreeing?
What does Juno give up compared to other supports? Relatively low kill pressure. In exchange, she gets:
Ranged hitscan heals
Speed boost (one of the strongest mechanics in every game, ever)
Flying
Auto aimed abilities
Over tuned ultimate which is easy to charge, thanks to long range, auto aimed damage + healing
She is only good because she is a numbers character with basically impossible to fuck up abilities (Ring always speeds you, and your other ability auto aims).
No character exists in a vacuum, but comparisons are still valuable. I don't understand how Blizz can fuck the balance 24/7, but release an auto aim support and people jump on the wagon to say it's healthy? Are you happy that the super high skill expression Lucio is being pushed out of the meta by someone who holds down M2 to get value? Maybe its the way Ocie cut the game, but this was the least interesting game I have seen on this channel.
Watching a Lucio pull off a crazy Beat + Boop to swing a fight, or watch Juno press a button and hide behind a wall while the tank 1v4s?
@@boom-jr8viI like how you are cementing examples of actual bad character designs like mercy while also bringing up completely irrelevant examples like mei being similar to reaper. Congrats. @boom-jr8vi
Tldr- The tank knows where it is because the tank knows where it isn’t.
i really think the discovery of dva/juno ring combo was like opening pandoras box on the ranked scene. any high ranked lobby rn just features the dvas playing icbm raid boss and it is MISERABLE to play against, especially as support, where you often just have zero chance of survival without playing brig, or without receiving peel from your other support (which is unfortunately extremely inconsistent, even in very high elo)
Maybe more people will start playing LW in ranked just for grip?
@@EingefrorenesEisen Then he will become the target and youll be fending off 4v5 every fight
The sequel to "Why Juno sucks and will never be meta"
First impressions are hard to judge
the sequence starting at 4:34 with the top down view showing the play we just saw in first person + your explanation was on point to show how both tanks work with juno differently
I am glad the top down views worked well during this video. I want to try and include them more when I actually have the replay codes to work with (I did this time around). Thank you for the feedback ^^
Great video! As others have said, I highly respect you for admitting being wrong about this initially without trying to give excuses or anything.
I think one thing you didn't mention is how nuts the torpedoes are. It can do up to 425 damage with 1 use and 340 healing. It's really nice to secure a kill or start an engage
Its more like 520 healing, because of the over-time effect it has afterwards. Which just makes it even better lol
@@hallowedchromee310gotta account for the people dying while it travels to them though, always happening to me in qp when I launch them lol
@@GreenTeaTheTeayea juno’s def the type where you gotta see 5 sec into future at all times
@@GEBULSHED Which would assumedly make her really good for high level play as most people would have the game sense and knowledge to essentially see 5 seconds into the future. Unless something weird is played.
@GEBULSHED i like to go on quick flanks to use the torpedoa and run back to my team. its a good way to create an opening so ur team can engage while the enemy is turned around
I'm gonna be so sad on the 17th when they nerf her into the ground instantly for being pretty good for literally half a month
Dvas the one that needs it
@@temmlygaming5509 nah they’ll nerf Winston and Illari instead, maybe Genji too. Dva never gets nerfed
@@C-R. True true (honestly I'm curious if they didn't nerf dva as an experiment to see how op the combo of Juno dva would be)
@@C-R. Dva never gets nerfed, which is why she was hard meta at the start of OW2 after some buffs, and they immediately got reverted because of how oppressive she was.
They said they are maintaining her power though.
I wish you released more, you are one of the few youtubers I put on when trying to fall asleep, that‘s the highest compliment any youtuber can receive from me
dont feel stressed to pump out videos, studying at uni is really important, but i love the educational content! Keep going queen
God thi was so entertaining, its like the mauga brawl comp variant we had a few months ago, its so funny how 1 xharacter completely changes how interesting and fun these matches get, like that dva sped up bomb was so fucking funny 😭
Tactical nuke.
1:05 Honest question, how did Juno get so much height here?
Junbin's Ball slam
I think I'm correct in saying that Dva's boosters are inconsistent in their interaction with Juno's speed ring? It may be due to the unique nature of Boosters as a movement ability (they aren't a simple movement speed boost, like Nemesis form, but their forward movement isn't as restrictive as something like Jump Pack or Seismic Slam), but regardless they essentially allow Dva to break the 75% speed boost limit, with basically no drawback to speak of.
You boost a Nemesis Form Ramattra, he's not going past +75% speed. You boost a Seismic Slamming Doomfist, he *can* go past +75% speed due to Seismic Slam movement not being a typical speed boost, but he's locked into a pretty predictable animation, unable to use other abilities or his primary without cancelling the slam, and lacks CC mitigation like Dva, leaving him much more vulnerable *after* the engagement.
But when you boost DVA, not only does she surpass +75% speed due to Boosters not being a normal increase to base movement, but the only restriction imposed on her is being forced in the direction she's looking (which is what you want anyway with an aggressive engage, and if something goes wrong she has enough time and speed to turn around and disengage.)
That's not even taking into account her ult, as you mentioned her bomb can benefit from this insane boost of speed too.
In my opinion, now that Speed Boost doesn't require you to be within a limited range of another hero, Dva's boosters should really be nerfed to count towards the +75% speed limit, as a hero who can be this aggressive on a short cooldown with hefty armour health, one of the most flexible defensive resources in the game and a second chance at life (especially since ult can be used when your mech gets destroyed) is going to be far too difficult to balance in her current state.
No her damage and armour needs to be nerfed, not speed the only fun thing about her kit.
actually, ramattra's nemesis form doesn't count towards toe speed limit - but he's still only gonna be at +70% speed with nemesis + speed ring. if you have lucio juno, a speed ring and speed will cap at 75%, like it should, but then ram in form will get to +95%.
@@kaheim1599 You can't let a single character break the rules when it comes to speed boost consistency, she's fast enough with her base boosters anyway. And frankly I think Matrix is a big part of what needs to be addressed with her kit, anything with barely any limits or restrictions like that is always the thing taking a kit from reasonable to broken
@@Ghajestis Funnily enough you're right, I assumed differently because Ram's Nemesis speed typically isn't in a position to meet the cap anyway. That should probably be made consistent too, even though Lucio + Juno isn't a particularly impressive comp.
Worst case scenario I could see it becoming a threat with a potential Lucio/Juno + Junkerqueen + Ramattra comp when they bring back 6v6?
@@kaheim1599 in this case, her speed relative to her wouldn't be nerfed - her kit by itself wouldn't be harmed. what this would change is it's interaction with hyper ring, fixing its inconsistent interaction with speed boost, which makes it fair.
Wonderful video, the clearest breaking down of the structure of the fights I've seen, like, ever. I found the overhead view really helpful and I really appreciate your calm, deliberate and to-the-point way of talking, even my plat brain was able to follow. Lovely stuff.
THE VIDEO IS FINALLY OUT 🗣️‼️‼️🔥
I still think Juno should headshot and make her torpedo's 85->75 dmg/heal.
Maybe mid fight impact is lesser, but more potential for entertaining gameplay + pop off moments
idk i think having a hit scan flying character is just kinda broken. I dont think we're considering that the higher you are the easier it is to click heads
June should headshot. You're right.
This is insanity BTW, her bullets are gigantic and it's extremely easy to hs as is
not every support hero needs to be a better dps.
This is the Sigma Gyatt Rizzy content that Overwatch really needs more of
So fanum tax
dva been breaking the speed limits which no character should 😭
Juno is one notch down from being absolutely busted. She is very strong still. Ive been climbing/ carrying with her. She never dies. And you can actually kill shit, rather easily too.
I cannot wait for the Brig/Juno video!!
I will work as hard as I can on it :3
"don't . forget . to breathe . I . am . breathing " like an asthmatic frail little thing and then proceed to 35 elims and 22 assists . Lol . Don't judge a book by its cover
I respect you recognizing your mistake and making another video 🫡
Coach, you overlooked the "f*ck it send us all in" meta with Juno. You should have seen it coming!😂
Yep...I was right about some of Juno's weaknesses but I did not expect this as the way to deal with that!
God she’s SO fun. Poking down enemy DPS supports and DPS is so powerful. Sadly she gets wrecked by Sombra 😢
feeling VINDICATED. ive been saying all of these pros//cons for juno since she dropped for the playtest.
I've been maining juno for a while now and going to a different support fills super limiting without her ability to shoot heals at any distance. Which I guess is a preference for me since I really enjoy being on the sidelines. So having a kit that allows me to support my team at a distance while also doing damage is really freeing. I myself was also a bit iffy on no self heals but after properly learning how to play juno, I find myself often either not dying at all or at the very most dying the least amount between my team. 10/10 she's my favorite atm
I’ve been loving brig this season, I’m only diamond on support but have a 74% wr over 30 games and nearly masters
It's so interesting to get a new support that right now is most meta alongside both Ana and Brig, and having Ana Brig be as good as we know it. It's good to have a support that works well both as a main and a flex right now, even if she's probably going to settle down with the nerf (probably as a flex) I think her Kit is versatile enough to fill both role well enough. Can't wait to see how it will affect comp
amazing quality as always, love your content, a truly professional in overwatch!
Great video as always, appreciate you educating everyone on the pro scene
I knew she was good and people were just learning what she could do. Props on owning up and saying you we're wrong. Hopefully she won't get nerfed now 😭 she's all over the top 500 charts
We will likely see some nerfs, but I hope the focus is on adjusting Ram/Dva and not Juno atm
YO THATS ME
Ayo it's Yunko!!
@@Coach_Ocie Yunko… but thanks for featuring us!
Whoops, I got 4hrs of sleep last night MB cannot type. Was a very close match and a fun one to watch ^^
how do I know this is the real Yunko
her ult is a doenside if your team jsut knows the keys a, s and d, if they push with it and acutally use the ray its strong asf, like old oriiiisa bongo (man i miss old orisa)
If you get the timing wrong, your opponent can completely kite it or push right through it. It's kind of like Bap window it that sense, so that makes it a little difficult to use. This is why you usually have to use it aggressively.
Ah yes, my favorite Henry Ford quote: "Teams can have any composition they want, so long as it's Juno."
"Brig + Juno?"
Me: "Bruno"
""we're not gonna talk about Brig + Juno today"
I see you.
Bruno Marz
That one TikTok guy who hates Juno is not gonna like this video 😂
Lmao
You completely deserve your hype and views
Everyone said I was crazy that this character was going to need multiple nerfs once people learned how to play her, and play with her.
Her numbers are absolutely insane, and she's way too strong.
I love your vids man, keep your humour up!
I love your vids Ocie! Thank you for making these :)
The fact that the comp and strat is just go dva and 1v5 faster than their dva can and use supports that enable dva shows how fucking insane it is she hasnt been nerfed yet. It is unbelievable blizzard throws a dart at a wall of different heroes pictures to determine who gets killer nerfs
Great video man! Love the analysis and I’m glad you’re able to admit your mistakes
Juno got buffed along side with Dva. That’s my main issue.
I definitely wouldn't say your first impressions are wrong, its just that the buffs really pushed her into viability. The survivability was an oversight, but it wouldn't be valuable to survive if you aren't doing much while alive
I feel that both the ult and the survivability were pretty major oversights, and that's 100% on me. My initial impressions were definitely incorrect, but pre-buff she was also a good bit weaker, so I'd agree with you on that for sure.
Really interesting meta! Thank you for the breakdown
It's definitely very unique, a bit predictable at times but very fun to watch. It's all about that early execution.
This video is amazing and your thoughts and analysis is top tier
Good luck in your studies! Thank you for uploading anyways!!
love how juno dva make such a fun and aggressive duo, kinda like ana winston or ball sombra
always super entertaining and informative!
Thank you!
JUNO MY BELOVED 🗣️‼️‼️🔥
great video, LOVE the use of Katana Zero music
Thank you!
Again fuckin amazing vid. Looking forward to the 2nd juno vid
Not gonna lie, you totally gaslit me in your previous video. I had a ton of fun playing her and felt she was strong and impactful. My WR with her was incredible. Figured it was a low(er) elo thing. Lol
It is interesting. Her stats don't sound very good at first, but her overall effect seems to somehow make her the best support. I seriously think her speed ring is the best support ability for when the two tanks are first engaging. Having the speed ring slightly in the enemy team let's you use it multiple times to spread them apart
great video as always ❤️your explanations are done so well
:3
Don’t care about your upload schedule, your videos are always top notch and worth the wait. Excellent work
Thank you very much
appreciate you accepting the mistake, your initial reaction felt a bit ego and put me off your videos but this video feels like a step in the right direction. good work 👍
Its actually crazy how fast dva is with juno
I really appreciate that you recognized that you were wrong, I made a comment trying to make others understand how playing juno makes tye game faster and pure pressure, I have 70% winrate on top 500 rn I was gm before when I made the comment. Juno did impact the meta, maybe not fully but I think all characters should have a spot, and ngl playing and watching juno gameplay is just fun, fast pace aggressive plays
respect for your work ethic, Ocie, hope university is going well and you’re taking care of yoruself
Doing my best, this one required staying up until 3 AM to get it out on time though >.
So on maps like circuit and Havana where it’s harder to get on back lines, the ana juno comp would be played for more pressure but on closer maps such as KR, juno brig would be better?
At the moment, this seems to be the shift, although Juno Brig is iffy on KR in specific imo. We will see what teams run this weekend during FACEIT and Korean/Japanese Grand Finals for OWCS.
Love watching your videos - I don’t even play OW anymore!
We need a video from you where you explain who the "Rush, Poke, and Dive" heroes are. Who works well with whom? Who is the main healer, off-healer, or main support, and what is their role? Additionally, what are the best picks for your team when playing with a specific tank?
It would also be great if you could create a Google Sheet to show which support heroes pair best with others, etc. (Rush, Dive, Poke)
I have a video on Main Support and Flex Support. When it comes to creating a Google Sheet, that would be logistically impossible as that would need updated with every single patch. There are certain patterns that remain constant but it is not within my capabilities to create a resource that is 100% accurate 100% of the time. (Note: Such a sheet would have to account for every map and most popular matchups. This would be hundreds of entries. I could create a simplified guide instead but even that is far from my logistical capabilities at this time.)
I might make a video explaining Brawl, Rush, Dive, and Poke (I prefer to call them Slow compositions). But that would be in the far future as I am working on several video concepts at the moment that are going to take a while to get out due to uni.
@@Coach_Ocie that would be very nice!
Love the positioning of pro teams.
I love your channel and this video was amazing! It was super well explained and very informative! :>
Also, JUNO MY BELOVED 🗣🗣🔥🔥 💞💞
Thank you! Looking forward to working on the next Juno video
It’s so cool that both Flex and Main Supports are playing her!
It would be interesting if Juno ends up similar to Tracer for DPS. Both Support players might need to learn Juno if she remains in a state of relevance for long enough.
I've been one-tricking Juno all season, and absolutely dominating. I went 9-1 in support placements, placed plat 1 and I've shot straight up to diamond 1. Now I've started on open queue too, and it's going well. I don't know what it is about this character, but something just clicked for me. I have a 65% win rate.
Why would he change his in game name from HyVison to HVS, HyVision sounds wayyyy cooler
thanks Coach
Idk why but Lucio Juno with wrecking ball has been my favorite comp in a while
JUNO IS ACTUALLY META NOW YIPPIE GO MARCIAN GIRL GO
I think people are missing out on how big the changes were. She was definitely strong on release (most of this was available since dva was already insane early s12) but those changes really do make her an outlier along with dva. I do think dva should take the front of the changes (her armor + her missiles just disintegrating squishies is quite unhealthy imo) and juno should probably have higher req ult charge & nerfs to torpedoes to keep her fun parts consistent.
This meta is definitely fun to watch though imo
I was getting zoned out by this really good Juno the other day who was kiting me as Echo
Her high rate of fire and mobility makes it NOT EASY to track down and deal with especially bc she can move away from beam. Sure in coordinated setups she can get got (like anyone can) but her ability to kite and fend off flankers and STILL heal her team is underrated
I love how when juno dropped everyone was saying how underpowered she is, now shes meta? Seems like everyone has a completely different take
Based for admitting you made a mistake in your early judgement
Ngl I did the same thing I thought she was bad when she dropped, but along with playing her more and the buffs shes in an amazing spot rn
It was definitely unexpected and it has been very interesting to see how these teams have overcome Juno's initial apparent weaknesses. Looking forward to covering Juno again in the Juno+Brig video ^^
I love juno. she's space anna with speed. anna is shut down an denial an juno is mobility. her ult is nano for the team it does need a slight buff of 10 more healing in her ult. Same weakness as anna can survive being dives. I wish my team was not scared of my ult tho. i have 300 hours on anna out of my thousands of hours in ow1 an ow2. juno inables hit an run or dives. brawling she struggles to to with. cause it gets away from her easily an you cant get to them to heal your team in time before they explode. Juno can fly nup as well but it takes all 3 cool downs to do it an then if you dont get value its a massive down side. Note: nano orbital dragon blade dose 800 damage a hit. its stupid op.
Dont apologize im used to youtubers that only upload once a year ur good
Haha I do my best. Definitely sticking to it and wanting to grow this channel as much as I can!
Goats might be gone but we still have our goat Ocie
I guess Juno wasn’t designed to fail
I agree with your points except that you can’t peel for your back line I’d say Juno is pretty good at that saving her teammates I’d say her weakness is actually dive since she got no self heal if no one comes to save you you are most likely dead same about being caught in the open against a good hitscan player
lifeweaver juno will be meta one day and it will be beautiful
I feel so vindicated
i tweeted at this guy "wait more than one day" because on the first day juno came out he said she was useless and underpowered. he responded explaining how right he is. look at him now
I'm not a guy so you might be getting me confused with someone else?
@@Coach_Ocielol then you have to be the most manly sounding woman ever
Not a good look my friend
Juno is Baptiste on steroids
Nice vídeo! Thanks
I thinkJuno‘s speed ring can be great at peeling
I'm sure my friend will be glad to hear she's strong. Been going on and on about how he's done so well with her. Probably because he's actually HEALING THE TEAM THIS TIME
She's front, back, everything
awesome vid as always
LOL i had this exact talk with my friend cause i also thought juno was pretty bad, start of season, 15 hours of playtime later, and i have to admit i was very wrong.
lol, after this extreme roast it kinda hillarious to hear apologies. geez, buddy, this was a miss by the long shot
Bleed were trolling playing RAM. Interior tank against buffed dva, jun ana
What is that music in the beginning. It sounds so familiar.
best ow content creater
Thank you!
i knew it. when everyone was calling juno trash i was one of the few who thought she was really good but nobody believed me