Someone being called "someone" should be not allowed is hard as fuck to keep track and know if someone is someone or someone is THE Someone (winston). Furthermore great explanation, you're a wonderful explainer, very comprehensive and has a great didactic!
Ive watched a lot of pro guides/coaching and played at a high level of overwatch myself this was not only entertaining but also very informative and educational good job
Always a good day when Coach Ocie uploads. I haven't watched yet so I don't know if it was talked about yet, but I think one of the reasons why D.VA isn't a Winston counter, especially in the CURRENT sandbox, is Winston ignores armor now. There was a point in time where he could do practically nothing to D.VA but now he ignores armor and defense matrix.
He also has much faster, more aggressive and arguably less predictable mobility that’s harder to react to, meaning that he can both escape and chase better than Dva can. Another thing is bubble which he can use to shield dance.
The thing I love about these videos is how much thought and skill actually goes into the matches we see in pro level and then I compare it to my gold ass gameplay and I get sad that I'll never be that good :(. Great video as always Ocie, you're the goat!
You wont learn those things in ranked, but in a team environment, even in gold teams you learn basic map strategies. OW is a much different game in a team environment. Give it a try and look for a team in your skillrange
@tawl-x You can train everything outside of coordinated attacks in Ranked Games. Positioning and mechanical skill, tracking etc is enough to get you up to the higher ranks.
Thats true. On the other hand you can get a much steeper learning curve in a team environment. Things like the video mentioned about frontline and core… good luck trying this in ranked. Ranked is more about individual skill, awareness and adaption.
@tawl-x Yeah but the solid foundation is important before you start practicing team dynamics imo. You don't want to practice team dynamics with under developed skills. But I guess it's a matter of preference.
I really like this video and the pace of explanations. My one request would have been to spend like 30 seconds explaining why Dva is traditionally considered a Winston counter, so we can appreciate why that logic didn't apply in this map.
I think the whole logic of "DVA counters Winston" came from OW1 and her role as an Off Tank. Back then it was her job to peel her backline and she was actually a part of the Core. This makes perfect sense, she played a role more similar to Brig. Since OW2's release, DVA lost that role. If you stay back and peel your backline all day and just shoot Winston, you control no space and can't do anything. This is why you see Vestola focus on hitting Toronto's backline, DVA's role has converted to Winston 2.0 and she tries to do the same things Winston does with a slightly worse kit (for that specific job). I probably could have covered that, that's a good point.
Love seeing someone do this at 11:26 just one of my favorite plays to make as tank. Also, I know in your last video you said the video was lower quality but these past 2 have been just as good as all the others. Keep up the good work you deserve more attention
I love the explanation for each part of the team comp; this is what makes me enjoy playing with my five stack because we pre talk what our positions are.
Awesome vid! I love watching pro OW and I don't catch half the things live that you point out in these vids!! P.S. love your voice progress, good job, keep at it!!!
Thanks a lot! Your breakdown of the game makes me understand it so much more. It's concise and simple. The only problem in understanding what's happening was with Someone. If only he had a different nickname :)
after wanting to start playing overwatch more competitively and using a lot of resources as guides, these videos have been a great thing to look at and your explanations as to why they setup the way they do is invaluable
We need a team made up of just silly names that make casting comms confusing now. Someone, Them, The Team, Nobody, and finally... Winston, the support main
Absolutely love this video and im glad this algo pointed me to you. I'm a Winston main and LOVE Gibby bc this map is so high ground focus, and people are terrible with high ground matchups. One of the only maps I actually enjoy Def more than offense in places
I used to think I didn’t care about comp, and you made me realize I still kinda don’t, I’m just in love with how you structure your videos and explain it all!
MORE STEINS;GATE MUSIC, THANK YOU QUEEN OCIE!!! YOUR VOICE TRAINING SOUNDS AWESOME AND I WILL NOT CALL YOU BRO OR MAN AS UNISEX ANYMORE CAUSE I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO PREFER EXPLICITLY FEMININE TERMS!! YOU'RE THE GOAT SIS!!!!!!!!!!
i love your content so much. i'd love to see you talk about ow theory, like killboxes or why tracer is always delgated to cart. idc if i know it already it's just interesting to hear about the layers you see in this game
The legendary Gibraltar first point. The graveyard of many a team. That first point can be absolutely brutal for the attack against a highly coordinated defence.
As a tank player its so refreshing seeing a player like Someone playing like he does. He is so free to do what he wants/needs and he uses Winston as utility instead of a diver. His job isnt to dive and kill, his job is to create enough space for his team to be able to kill.
Ocie genuinely has such an amazing way of presenting analysis, she does an amazing job of explaining things that some people may just find so confusing...
Currently working on a new Support focused video. I'd recommend checking out OBsSojourn for POV footage of Support players from OWCS. Any of the Koreans as well as SSG's backline (Landon/FunnyAstro) are worth looking at.
Great breakdown, definitely helped me to understand what these pro teams are going for with each of their decisions. Also I’m jealous of your voice progress (can’t voice train because transphobic family)
I know you probably aren’t going to because KSA but the match between Toronto Ultra and Zeta Division would be a really good video since it was so close.
Yeah, I won't be covering EWC. Thing is, I really can't anyways (even if I wanted to) since no POVs will be released. I'd be working 100% off of the stream POV which is impossible for me to do with the kinds of content I put out. Kind of works out for me...I don't want to cover EWC and I can't anyways
5:23 I might be wrong here but i feel like it's very easy for Kevster to assist Vestola here not "near impissible" . One shift enables Kevster echo to make it to that highground with ease and if im not mistaken he had it at that moment. I could be wrong though.
Kevster was under immense pressure and forced away immediately. If Kevster shifts in, he is forced to fully commit to taking Blue Box and wouldn't be able to kite, he might die before he even reaches Blue Box. That's why he backs off underneath and doesn't attempt such a risky play.
I never understood why Dva was considered a counter to Winston….like, she’s fast like him, has better dmg at times, and has a way to stop damage sure….but she can’t stop Winston’s dmg, not to mention it’s not like she has some ability to override Winston’s bubbles, you just sort of brute force against Winston. The armor changes + the fact Winston ignores armor also now shows this. I can imagine that she would be STRONG into Winston, but not a counter
It might have been better to put Ghost on Blue Box to start...I don't think you need to throw Kai on point here though because Toronto will just match with Sugarfree and honestly Vestola needs the help from Kai on the high ground hit. I think The best idea would be for Ghost and Kevster to play Blue Box and to execute a 3man hit with Vestola, Kai, and Masaa. If Vestola actually survives that hit, he can stabilize point and then it's up to Toronto to re-engage and take their turn. ENCE just didn't get that far and lost Vestola far too early. You definitely make a fair point with Ghost on Blue Box though.
I'd actually been wondering if Dva was really a counter to Winston at any level anymore outside of like Bronze-Silver. Before she could deal good damage to him, chase him easily and not take much damage from Tesla cannon. But Tesla cannon pierces armour now. By comparison, shotgun damage like Dvas is gonna be worse into Winston's armour health with the changes. She can still chase him around, sure, but that's gone from being a major threat to him to just being a way of taking space.
The reality is that Dva lost her role as a Winston counter long before that Winston buff. She hasn't been a "counter" since OW1. Back in OW1 your Dva would peel for backline and kinda play like a Brig. Remember in this video how I talked about the Core and the Frontline? Dva would switch between being Frontline and being Core. Now Dva is forced to Frontline pretty much 100% of the time. If she tries to perma peel the Winston her team has no space and fails to do anything. This is why you see Vestola on Dva focusing on the backline of Toronto and not Someone on Winston.
@@Coach_Ocie Notable that Winston has lost counters almost entirely on an individual basis, I actually fear him a lot more even in the low diamond level games I'm currently in than I do Dva. Dva is annoying, but at the end of the day she can bleed. It doesn't feel like your entire team needs to swap to deal with her. Winston though? I've not had a Winston game where the majority of my teammates haven't been forced off. Bastion, if anything, is countered *by* Winston nowadays, Reaper really just gets nothing done and anything without some sort of instant escape tool on a short cooldown is just getting no value. Armour penetration and recent tank buffs made him go from the strongest consistent tank in the game (but with a notable number of hard counters that could absolutely make him unplayable outwith coordinated games) to the strongest consistent tank in the game, period. I feel like the only reason Dva gets more flack from the playerbase is that she better supports brawl comps as well, which casual players in solo queue are better at running.
1. Armor changes making dva do pebbles vs armor with her shotguns and micromissiles 2. winstons tesla gun ignores armor 3. dva cant defense matrix winstons primary fire.
Reason 1 why Dva doesn't counter Winston: Your Winston is named Someone
Well the main reason is reduced headshot dmg reduced dmg to armour Winton ignoring armour and DM
Not rly pros pretty much always played winston over dva even before winston buffs against dva
but also Gib was one of ence's instaloss maps that tourney
who?
real reason: 5v5 sucks and DVA cant solo tank
you said “someone dropped down” and i checked to see who dropped down 😭😭😭
Yet another victim of my GOAT Someone
Same. Please be more descriptive next time.
@@codeninja1but he was being descriptive, did you Check the names? Someone never did that.
@@maxmaokhamphiou6562 someone was being sarcastic.
@@codeninja1 that someone's comment seemed genuine to me, maybe someone should tell us if their comment was.
Someone being called "someone" should be not allowed is hard as fuck to keep track and know if someone is someone or someone is THE Someone (winston). Furthermore great explanation, you're a wonderful explainer, very comprehensive and has a great didactic!
Someone is living rent free in your mind. There will be no more explaining
@@thksai1684"rent free" lil bro isn't even old enough to afford rent, and yet you're talking
@@michaellin4553 Well, someone's salty...
Just say Winston, and 99% of the time you aren’t saying the players name you’re saying the character
@@copycat6775 Until both teams have a winston...
anyone else think ocie is just a genius, she explains such complex concepts in such a simple way for us all to understand. much love
She?
@@AJxM8 yup
@@rick-db1wroh no I’m not guessing, Ocie goes by she/her
@@Arle3597where did you see that?
@@rick-db1wrbased
you are the teacher who everyone wished they had at school. passionate and informative. thanks
Ive watched a lot of pro guides/coaching and played at a high level of overwatch myself this was not only entertaining but also very informative and educational good job
Always a good day when Coach Ocie uploads. I haven't watched yet so I don't know if it was talked about yet, but I think one of the reasons why D.VA isn't a Winston counter, especially in the CURRENT sandbox, is Winston ignores armor now. There was a point in time where he could do practically nothing to D.VA but now he ignores armor and defense matrix.
He also has much faster, more aggressive and arguably less predictable mobility that’s harder to react to, meaning that he can both escape and chase better than Dva can. Another thing is bubble which he can use to shield dance.
AND armor buffs make him take much less from dva low dmg pellets
The thing I love about these videos is how much thought and skill actually goes into the matches we see in pro level and then I compare it to my gold ass gameplay and I get sad that I'll never be that good :(. Great video as always Ocie, you're the goat!
You can be that good. Just gotta commit and grind
You wont learn those things in ranked, but in a team environment, even in gold teams you learn basic map strategies. OW is a much different game in a team environment. Give it a try and look for a team in your skillrange
@tawl-x You can train everything outside of coordinated attacks in Ranked Games. Positioning and mechanical skill, tracking etc is enough to get you up to the higher ranks.
Thats true. On the other hand you can get a much steeper learning curve in a team environment. Things like the video mentioned about frontline and core… good luck trying this in ranked. Ranked is more about individual skill, awareness and adaption.
@tawl-x Yeah but the solid foundation is important before you start practicing team dynamics imo. You don't want to practice team dynamics with under developed skills. But I guess it's a matter of preference.
I really like this video and the pace of explanations. My one request would have been to spend like 30 seconds explaining why Dva is traditionally considered a Winston counter, so we can appreciate why that logic didn't apply in this map.
I think the whole logic of "DVA counters Winston" came from OW1 and her role as an Off Tank. Back then it was her job to peel her backline and she was actually a part of the Core. This makes perfect sense, she played a role more similar to Brig.
Since OW2's release, DVA lost that role. If you stay back and peel your backline all day and just shoot Winston, you control no space and can't do anything. This is why you see Vestola focus on hitting Toronto's backline, DVA's role has converted to Winston 2.0 and she tries to do the same things Winston does with a slightly worse kit (for that specific job).
I probably could have covered that, that's a good point.
@@Coach_Ocie Thanks very much!
Love seeing someone do this at 11:26 just one of my favorite plays to make as tank. Also, I know in your last video you said the video was lower quality but these past 2 have been just as good as all the others. Keep up the good work you deserve more attention
Ah yes. Toronto. My favorite Canadian team. Consisting of two Korean players and three Americans. Just as Trudeau intended
What the fuck are you even talking about…. Its weird that your misinformed hatred for trudeau comes up in the comment section of an OW youtube video
They are gonna need three more Koreans if they want a snowball’s chance
I love the explanation for each part of the team comp; this is what makes me enjoy playing with my five stack because we pre talk what our positions are.
These videos are honestly the most interesting overwatch analysis videos ive seen. Very well made! Thanks for the good advice Ms. Ocie
I'm not sure why, but the ram call from someone during the spawnhold while he was pressuring the backline was really eye opening for me
Awesome vid! I love watching pro OW and I don't catch half the things live that you point out in these vids!!
P.S. love your voice progress, good job, keep at it!!!
Thank you! This video's recording was rough, been dealing with sore throat lately, but I will definitely keep at it :)
Love the starcraft 1 music and in depth passionate analysis. New favorite channel??! :)
Classic Brood War fan, ZERG MY BELOVED :3
Thanks a lot! Your breakdown of the game makes me understand it so much more. It's concise and simple. The only problem in understanding what's happening was with Someone. If only he had a different nickname :)
Analysis of lhcloudy's play when he got subbed in on 200 ping that one time
The classic Cloudy Special, Thats What Happened
after wanting to start playing overwatch more competitively and using a lot of resources as guides, these videos have been a great thing to look at and your explanations as to why they setup the way they do is invaluable
We need a team made up of just silly names that make casting comms confusing now. Someone, Them, The Team, Nobody, and finally... Winston, the support main
but who’s on first?
Just found this channel while working and your vids have been keeping me from losing my mind lol, glad theres a new post!!
Absolutely love this video and im glad this algo pointed me to you. I'm a Winston main and LOVE Gibby bc this map is so high ground focus, and people are terrible with high ground matchups. One of the only maps I actually enjoy Def more than offense in places
easily my favourite creator/ coach when it comes to competitive play
i’ve never seen a better explanation of a map, that was so insightful. luv ya vids
These videos are always so interesting. Love the vids and the streams
I used to think I didn’t care about comp, and you made me realize I still kinda don’t, I’m just in love with how you structure your videos and explain it all!
Armor and headshot changes were highly beneficial for winton. The armor piercing and beam type weapon being really good for dva too.
there was a rein v rein going on in the tourneys not so long ago, would love to see that
As someone that plays Winston, this was VERY informative as how to get value with bubble and to play with your team thanks Ocie!
Ty for the video, Coach! Always look forward to these ❤
Love your videos, i feel like you are making the content i'm lacking to trully enjoy my grind on ow2. Please keep going it's awesome
great educational content as always miss ocie
MORE STEINS;GATE MUSIC, THANK YOU QUEEN OCIE!!! YOUR VOICE TRAINING SOUNDS AWESOME AND I WILL NOT CALL YOU BRO OR MAN AS UNISEX ANYMORE CAUSE I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO PREFER EXPLICITLY FEMININE TERMS!! YOU'RE THE GOAT SIS!!!!!!!!!!
What a good analysis, looking out for the next one
These videos are so informative! Thank you!
My GOAT Ocie with another banger 🙏 thank you for these deep analysis videos :)
Found your channel with the last vid and loving it. Keep it up
I want more about dive comp that’s just so important to cover because there is so much things to say on
your script writing / delivery is so consistent!
On a real note, this is probably my favorite comp to play atm as a winston main. It's the comp I have the best understanding of
Love to hear the Brood War music. Always a sign of FINE TASTE..
would be fun to watch you do a vid on bastionmains team
videos like this help me hit masters.
"Sugarfree is a strong up and coming flex dps player" as he has been for like 6 years since he was 3
Stuck in Contenders jail LOL
@@Coach_Ocie the year after he escapes contenders, contenders is no more.
i love your content so much. i'd love to see you talk about ow theory, like killboxes or why tracer is always delgated to cart. idc if i know it already it's just interesting to hear about the layers you see in this game
The legendary Gibraltar first point. The graveyard of many a team. That first point can be absolutely brutal for the attack against a highly coordinated defence.
As a tank player its so refreshing seeing a player like Someone playing like he does. He is so free to do what he wants/needs and he uses Winston as utility instead of a diver. His job isnt to dive and kill, his job is to create enough space for his team to be able to kill.
very good day to be a toronto defiant fan!! And this match wasnt even close. Poor ence got sweeped. Haha
The StarCraft music in the background is sooooo good
I am a big Starcraft Brood War fan ^_^
I like the way she used sprites to show the role Someone had before the fight started
Ocie genuinely has such an amazing way of presenting analysis, she does an amazing job of explaining things that some people may just find so confusing...
Hey Coach, is there any notable performances from support players in recent OW league?
viol2t beat 🙏🙏🙏
Currently working on a new Support focused video. I'd recommend checking out OBsSojourn for POV footage of Support players from OWCS. Any of the Koreans as well as SSG's backline (Landon/FunnyAstro) are worth looking at.
Being named the descriptor for an unknown entity really had me going huh every few seconds.
This was informational. Is here when no one communicates in comp
Great breakdown, definitely helped me to understand what these pro teams are going for with each of their decisions.
Also I’m jealous of your voice progress (can’t voice train because transphobic family)
great vid, love the content
“It’s a battle of attrition” W frieren reference 😹
girl you eat, slay and serve with these vids, keep them coming :D
Very nice commentary. Thanks.
gotta say, "someone" has to be the most confusing alias i've ever heard a pro player use. you almost shouldn't be allowed to have a name like that lol
Cover Falcons vs Crazy Racoon Upper Finals Dallas Major
i love ur content girl keep up the good work
just got chills hearing the StarCraft music
Terran 2 & 3! Someday I'll have to pull out the Terran 1. I love Brood war :3
more vids like this goat
12:30 fist bump?
Backline synergy was NOT THERE
I was just watching ur vids and a new vid came out
Wonderful video!
I recommend to do a tracer analysis for kevster or suagrfree or stalk3r
did you get a new mic recently? sounds a little different
Still working on my voice training so my voice is often inconsistent, I apologize
I know you probably aren’t going to because KSA but the match between Toronto Ultra and Zeta Division would be a really good video since it was so close.
Yeah, I won't be covering EWC. Thing is, I really can't anyways (even if I wanted to) since no POVs will be released. I'd be working 100% off of the stream POV which is impossible for me to do with the kinds of content I put out.
Kind of works out for me...I don't want to cover EWC and I can't anyways
+1 for StarCraft music.
Omg real coach ocie
She so talented n smart 🥺
5:23 I might be wrong here but i feel like it's very easy for Kevster to assist Vestola here not "near impissible" . One shift enables Kevster echo to make it to that highground with ease and if im not mistaken he had it at that moment. I could be wrong though.
Kevster was under immense pressure and forced away immediately. If Kevster shifts in, he is forced to fully commit to taking Blue Box and wouldn't be able to kite, he might die before he even reaches Blue Box. That's why he backs off underneath and doesn't attempt such a risky play.
Diddyfree tracer!
7:14 insane pulse
Someone is so good
sugarfree has not been in the comp scene in contenders for SIX years to be called up and coming 😭
Contenders jail LOL
i love seeing reviews of matches where a team plays a typically non meta character
thank you goat 🙏
im new to the channel but would you ever cover the FL Mayhem grandfinals win?
No POVs or replays available to cover those matches from OWL
Thanks for this video
Does winston do more damage when you melee? I noticed Someone was switching between melee and primary against dva a lot at one point
Girl you are the fucking best at doing that please keep going or im gonna cry and scream and piss and shit and puke myself to sleep
great explanation
I never understood why Dva was considered a counter to Winston….like, she’s fast like him, has better dmg at times, and has a way to stop damage sure….but she can’t stop Winston’s dmg, not to mention it’s not like she has some ability to override Winston’s bubbles, you just sort of brute force against Winston. The armor changes + the fact Winston ignores armor also now shows this. I can imagine that she would be STRONG into Winston, but not a counter
algocomment
ty starcraft OST goes hard
I kinda assumed that when playing comp and I couldn’t block his electro shock therapy with my defence matrix
i wonder if in the last fight the play is for kevester and ghost to play blue box while vestola and masaa contest high ground and Kai pushes point.
It might have been better to put Ghost on Blue Box to start...I don't think you need to throw Kai on point here though because Toronto will just match with Sugarfree and honestly Vestola needs the help from Kai on the high ground hit. I think The best idea would be for Ghost and Kevster to play Blue Box and to execute a 3man hit with Vestola, Kai, and Masaa. If Vestola actually survives that hit, he can stabilize point and then it's up to Toronto to re-engage and take their turn. ENCE just didn't get that far and lost Vestola far too early. You definitely make a fair point with Ghost on Blue Box though.
Great vid queen
So OWL is back to TracerWatch. Oh goody....
I'd actually been wondering if Dva was really a counter to Winston at any level anymore outside of like Bronze-Silver.
Before she could deal good damage to him, chase him easily and not take much damage from Tesla cannon.
But Tesla cannon pierces armour now. By comparison, shotgun damage like Dvas is gonna be worse into Winston's armour health with the changes.
She can still chase him around, sure, but that's gone from being a major threat to him to just being a way of taking space.
The reality is that Dva lost her role as a Winston counter long before that Winston buff. She hasn't been a "counter" since OW1.
Back in OW1 your Dva would peel for backline and kinda play like a Brig. Remember in this video how I talked about the Core and the Frontline? Dva would switch between being Frontline and being Core.
Now Dva is forced to Frontline pretty much 100% of the time. If she tries to perma peel the Winston her team has no space and fails to do anything. This is why you see Vestola on Dva focusing on the backline of Toronto and not Someone on Winston.
@@Coach_Ocie Notable that Winston has lost counters almost entirely on an individual basis, I actually fear him a lot more even in the low diamond level games I'm currently in than I do Dva. Dva is annoying, but at the end of the day she can bleed. It doesn't feel like your entire team needs to swap to deal with her.
Winston though? I've not had a Winston game where the majority of my teammates haven't been forced off. Bastion, if anything, is countered *by* Winston nowadays, Reaper really just gets nothing done and anything without some sort of instant escape tool on a short cooldown is just getting no value. Armour penetration and recent tank buffs made him go from the strongest consistent tank in the game (but with a notable number of hard counters that could absolutely make him unplayable outwith coordinated games) to the strongest consistent tank in the game, period.
I feel like the only reason Dva gets more flack from the playerbase is that she better supports brawl comps as well, which casual players in solo queue are better at running.
If ENCE had their dive tank player here things could have gone differently. Unfortunately he could not be there because of the war I think
Educational video bro
Thank you :) I'm not a guy though
@@Coach_Ocie I use bro as a gender neutral term, no harm meant
Eu when they have to play something that isn't sigma rein rammatra
Coach Ocie really loves someone, thou idk who that might be
1. Armor changes making dva do pebbles vs armor with her shotguns and micromissiles
2. winstons tesla gun ignores armor
3. dva cant defense matrix winstons primary fire.
Someone is the ultimate troll.
Unrelated but you sound like you’d be a really good teacher
Love seeing you on my notifs KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK QUEEN!!!
ps: your progress on your voice has been amazing, im almost kinda jealous
Another ocie banger