THE VULNERABILITY LOOP in narcissistic relationships
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT.
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I am 71 and lived alone and taken care of everything myself all of my life. Cats and dogs have been my companions. I call my life - life-like. Truly sad. I have found one friend who honestly says, Mary it is good to see you. That is a start. I am getting really good at gray rocking. Life saving tool.
I needed to hear it today dr Ramani. It’s so very true that vulnerability is not safe when you are surrounded by narcisistic people, the connection is not fostered and neither is attachment. You live isolated in a crowd full of strangers and you do everything alone because asking for help feels like an act of masochizm. You have explained it so well. Thank you so much ❤ God bless you ❤
amen
I do everything alone. I have 4 rescue dogs. The love that they provide is perfect and complete. I disrespect my " narcissist" and I practice a work around and gray rocking. He is the scum of the earth.
G. He "helped" and then uses that against me ... brings it up how he "helped me that time" or "look what I have done for you"
I know. so true. fu k him.
Same happened to me, the same hands that "help" bind and chain the soul💔Makes it hard to trust anyone or be vulnerable again
Yes this! Forever indebted to the narc
THIS! This is my (soon to be ex-)husband of 24 yers 😣
Dr. Ramani, I saw the emotional pain in your eyes when you were giving this talk. So glad you're using your own experience to help people. People truly are God's helpers, and you are definitely helping so many. God bless you sweet lady.
There's one more I'd like to add, choice (e). They make you feel like you're an irresponsible burden, lazy childish, and selfish always wanting to get everyone else to lift your load for you and become angry that you want them to take care of you because you're too lazy to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and swim on your own. I have a traumatic brain injury, and I learned never ask for help if at all possible, even when I desperately need it. They don't care what you're dealing with, they just care that you inconvenienced them. Thank you for all you do, for those with a TBI, learning and understanding narcissism and how it works is more than just about protection, it's a matter of survival.
I grew up never asking for help because there was no one to help me. People were not safe and I'm in my 50's and still feel this way.
I never ask for help either.
I too, in my 50's, am the same. People are unsafe. I learnt to be my own safe place at a very young age.
Me too, in my 50’s. I am sick 🤒 and on my own.
@@clappiton I learned at a early age, I only had myself.
@@rturney6376 so sorry. I have ME. I can relate.
Ask them to do something for you. Something small. Something you would do for them with no hesitation. If they are narcissistic or otherwise toxic, it will ALWAYS go at least 1 of 4 ways (though sometimes these reactions may compound): They will act as though they didn’t hear you. Depending on how long you’ve been in the relationship, you may ask again. If it’s been long enough, you’re likely to drop the request right then and there.
They will promise to do it, but never follow through.
If you ask again or remind them, they will usually have some kind of excuse. In these cases, they will still never actually fulfill their promise. Their excuse is not a reason for lagging, it is the reason they should be absolved from all expectation whatsoever. Often this excuse will be meaningless or an outright lie.If you don’t buy their excuse, and tell them so, you will experience the wonderful segue into reaction.
An argument will ensue
The argument will be your fault. It could be a small back and forth contending against your request, or it might quickly devolve into them screaming at you. You never know which it will be. They might even say outright that you should never ask or expect anything from them. Usually they will express that you are asking too much, hurting them in some way (financially, emotionally, insulting them, etc), or attack your character.
The argument will only end when you relinquish your request + apologize, or start ignoring them completely. If you can ignore them long enough, they may apologize to you. However, the conflict will never feel truly resolved.
At this juncture they may actually end up giving you what you asked for. Often this does require you admitting that you don’t really need it, or that you would be fine with what they suggested instead. This leads us to reaction
They give you what you asked for, BUT
There is ALWAYS a catch. It might be small. They show up late with no apology. They buy you what you wanted, but it’s the wrong color, model, brand, etc. They take you where you wanted to go, but pressure you the whole time you’re getting ready because you’re going to be sooo late. Then they want to leave early anyway. It might be worse. They do it out of anger, and make a big display out of it to scare/hurt you. They hold it over your head until you do something for them first. Or, later on, they use it against you. “I did x for you, so you should do y for me.” No matter what, you never actually feel fulfilled, happy, or loved when they do something for you. Somehow, even from the getgo, there was this deep-seated feeling of guilt and fear, this sense that the “special” things they were doing for you weren’t so special at all. Eventually, you become afraid to ask for anything. You’ve been conditioned to believe you deserve nothing. Ironically, or not, the less demands you make, the worse you will be treated. Moreover, Catching a cheating spouse might be difficult, and knowing what local laws say you can and cannot do might be even more difficult. To simplify the process, consider hiring a private investigator to do the sleuthing for you I genuinely appreciate how incredible you are and your work! Thank you for a job well done digitalinvestigate@gmail.com
This describes my experiences to a T. I always heard “It’s your own fault” and “No we are not helping you” when I was in my teens. As a result, I have always paid for help for things like moving, home repairs, etc…. because I’m so afraid to ask my friends for help.
Wow, this hits hard. Thank you for the compassion with which you convey this concise message. 😢
This was one of the most painful videos for me, too. It brought up a lot of pain that I didn't even realize was there.
WOW, you nailed it. This speaks to the core of what I'm currently dealing with. And grieving. It's time to change my circumstances. Thank you for clear focus.
me too, luck to us both
Wow, Brilliant. Immediately watched twice. It is so much clearer how growing up in a multi-generational, highly Narcissistic family contributed to my unbalanced drive for Perfectionism and Self-sufficiency. I thought I was developing healthy independence, but it is clear now that I learned that asking for help was unsafe. You are so good at this, Dr. Ramani. Thank you!
I think it's worth noting, although I'm sure you already know this, that you can grow up in an environment that exhibits a lot of narcissistic traits but the likelihood of them, especially all of them having full blown NPD is very slim; indeed actual narcissists to not attract each other they repel each other as they can't utilise the other as supply due to having no integrated ego to begin with. I'd advise checking out Prof Sam Vaknin & empirical studies. I'm a mental health prof & NPD is comparatively rare in the population at 1-3% and doesn't aietiologically carry a heavy genetic load so a household comprised of them would be pretty inconceivable. Somebody can be antagonistic, disagreeable etc without having full blown NPD. I fear that Dr Ramani as she's not a qualified professional in the field of personality disorders is over using the vernacular of narcissism way too much to rather describe people who are just multifaceted & not altogether particularly pleasant individuals.
Wow!!! You just described my patterns of loneliness & isolation. Thank you for the insight and the validation.
Thank you.
This. Absolutely.
Betrayal, vulnerability,trust..... big heavy words .
Go well peeps
Thank you sooo much Dr Ramani as it is so difficult to deal with narcissistic people in the long run without not thinking that living isolated is much better! 0:02
so true
E: enjoyed watching you struggle knowing they had been the cause of it.
I’m going to need to rewatch this a few times to process everything I just learned here. This video was revolutionary for me. Also devastating. I understand myself better now. Asking for help is the scariest thing I could possibly do. I was raised by a narcissistic parent, and endured an abusive marriage.
And I’m so angry at the culture I live in, which fetishizes stubborn independence and refuses to recognize that what they’re actually seeing is the result of preventable damage.
Dr Ramani thank you so much. You have just described my relationships. I struggle so much with trust after having hurt so many times.
I'm not really lonely, because I learned to make friends with animals instead of people. People will betray you, animals won't harm me.
❤me too
Makes perfect sense
Hoping you guys find that right person. Remember you have a radar for narcissism now. You won’t be fooled the next time around.
Now that is really it. I take nature pics along my mile or two each good weather day. Zero Trust humans. None want to talk to a normal person anyway.
@@lisapanger9460 for some, I feel like a lot of us, we got sick, often chronic illnesses that leaves very little to a possible future. Beside, the narcissist is very good at hiding it until he’s got you hooked…😔
F. They helped you then held it over your head or you owed them back endlessly.
Truly. I have a hard time excepting help, or gifts because of it being weaponized endlessly in my past narcissistic relationship.
Yes you hit the nail on the head. I asked for help from a "friend " who held it over my head for YEARS!
@lovingsoulsministries3 EXACTLY... They weaponise ANY "positives" they offer. ALL types of Narcissists default to this.
Because, they don't consistently authentically value actual mutual well-being fairly.
Yup, and there’s no end to you owing them, ever.
This is why it is a true joy to meet one or two people in the course of a lifetime who understand and practice vulnerability the way it should be practiced. Thank you Dr. Ramani
This is excellent: the survivor, being afraid to ask for help, means the survivor who can't ask for help now because they don't want to be vulnerable means the survivor didn't get their needs met and so they closed down. As a result.
I have never heard of the vulnerability loop before, but this was basically my life. During my 20 year marriage, I did everything, all of the childcare, housework, and all the emotional labor. When I would ask my husband for help, I was shamed. He told me I was lazy and irresponsible. He once told me that Oprah had enough hours in the day to keep her life together, why couldn't I? I wasn't nearly as busy or important as she was. I also struggled with undiagnosed ADHD and had trouble with things like focus, organization and memory. When I suggested it might be ADHD , he just mocked me for being so disorganized. I'm divorced now but still struggle with my ADHD and things like budgeting and keeping my home organized. But I'm terrified to ask for help, ir let someone into my home to help me, for fear of being shamed.
33 yr marriage + 7 yrs dating.
depression also hurts organization.
get therapy if u can, if not, listen to dr. r every day. it gets good.
I once needed financial help and asked my narc relative who gave me a look I now understand to be called “the smirk of Satan” and refused help! These people are pure EVIL! 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
This is so amazing and helpful. I can’t tell you how much I love this woman. It is helped so many people in my family all her videos.
I also feel that the transactional nature of the relationship makes me feel vulnerable asking for help because the other person may expect something in return and I would then be "controlled" again.......
Nailed it. Vulnerability, shame. Thank you❤
This makes so much sense for me. I look backed at my history and see this through alot if old relationships. Now I can start to heal.❤
Not only do they not close the loop, they constantly manufacture situations that leave you on a vulnerable state over and over again and since they've isolated you and made sure you are dependent on them for anything. Not only does the loop not close, it becomes an infinite squiggly line that twists and turns and goes on and off the page at random as they alternate between giving help with chains attached, ignoring you, making you feel broken and stupid for needing help to get out of the bad situation they put you in based on the type of supply they need at that moment. And because they created the issue, they know you are now in a vulnerable place even if you hide it and force their help whether you ask for it or not.
Thank you ❤ Help feels safer whith pros doing a job they get payed for.
Asking friends for help is the hardest thing to do - and as a survivor - starting with the family I grew up with and a toxic partner for many years, free for 7 months now - I am pretty good in pretending to be just fine. They know though, but yet if they do help without me asking them to I am afraid of the pricetag that help comes with. And then - there is no such pricetag except the one I am putting on it. It's hard to overcome that fear...and not fair towards my friends.
I needed to hear that. Thank you, Dr. Ramani ❤
Omg you are talking to me a lot me. I needed this today. My momma is a narcissist and would shallowly ask if I needed help, I knew she didn’t really want to help and wasn’t going. She was ok watching me struggle.
I needed help, at wits end, was really hard to ask, and when I did my worst fears were realized except from one person. Took it really hard. Trying to survive and on top of that the emotional damage of being criticized, judged, and rejected.
For me the lesson learned is I kept attracting or maintaining relationships that were unhealthy to begin with. Receiving and giving help, trusting, are what healthy relationships are all about. My main regret is not asking for help earlier and when i did and didn’t get it, realizing i was asking the wrong person. And most of all not wasting my time with these people.
Paraphrase of Jesus, “Who is my family, who are my friends? Those that do the will of God. What is God’s will? Love thy neighbor as thyself. “
Thats profoundly true
This was exactly my situation as well. Took me years to develop a sense of hope when asking for help. When i needed it the most, not a single person would step up. It became evident that almost all people only help they want too in the way they want too. A social worker encouraged me to ask for help when i didnt want too but did... the only things i ever get from doing so is judgment, shame, and hurt.
My covert narc husband deliberately stalls, forgets, does it the wrong way or the most expensive way (he hid $65 thousands in debt and deliberately try’s to thwart my attempt to rebuild our families savings) as passive aggressive ways to punish me.
There is also, of course, the narcissist who sees you in a moment of need, helps you, and keeps score. Every favor they do isn’t because they care about you, but to gain a little more power over you. Then, one day when you are at your most vulnerable, they bring it all up and tell you that they own you. At that point you lose trust not only in them, but in everyone, because you no longer know if you can trust anyone.
My sister. . the bean counter. Never remembers harmful things she's done, always knows the Math ➗➖
It's so hard to trust after having been betrayed . I honestly hate for asking for help anymore . There is always a catch
Wow! This vulnerability loop happened to me recently when I asked my narcissisic ex for money so I could travel to our daughter's wedding. I am wheelchair bound and live alone. He immediately shamed me for my inability to make enough money and then stated he would only send me money if I shipped him a painting I received in the divorce. He is extremely cruel. After my ask, I actually felt suicidal. It was frightening and made me feel even more helpless.
That is so horrible and scary. I’m so sorry
I'm so sorry this is even possible, much less that you experienced it.
That is terrible! If I was you I would never ask him for anything ever again. No matter what!!! Because you’ll most likely get the same exact outcome every time. You will only be hurting yourself in the end & you definitely deserve better than that!!! I’m praying 🙏🏻 for you- I’m sure you’re a wonderful person. Take care of you #1!! 🫂 🤗
He must not care for your daughter's happiness.
All of the above, as well as accusing me of “manipulating them” for asking or needing ANY help. Not even help from them. Example: needing to go to the hospital for care.
WOW. You explained this perfectly and finally do I feel understood and validated after hearing over and over “Here we go” every time I bring up the same essential need I’ve been deprived of the entire 9 year relationship: not just being hurt, but that he isn’t ever SORRY for that hurt. And everything, EVERYTHING he’s done that I thought was kind, empathetic and selfless, coming from a place of unconditional love, was eventually thrown back in my face.
When I need reassurance, and I’m hoping for an opportunity to close that vulnerability loop, not only is it not, it is deprived in the cruelest ways…..and I am to the point of feeling so broken, hopeless and ashamed, I don’t know what to believe in.
I remember the "I would have done that" after I had finished without help. Never did.
My paternal questioned me when i told her my ex husband was mentally abused me n kids. She told me to pray about it and didn't believe he was abusive. I blocked her n disengaged. Now years later she got a new # and needed a place to stay and asked me to stay with me. I ignored her. In her messenger she stated I must help her because "we're family!" I didn't let her stay with me. Hell go live with my ex husband who she adores😅
This is the best description of my life story that I have ever heard. Thank you for this insight Dr Ramani
Good parenting tips too. Sometimes we react inappropriately to children when they can’t or refuse to do things for themselves. No put downs. Find a way to deal with that with positive vibes.
Dr. Ramani there’s one category that you missed. My particular narcissistic abuser loves for me to be vulnerable and completely reliant on them, and then to put me down for not having anybody but them or not having a physical ability to take care of what they’ve offered to help me with and then the verbally manipulate put me down, make digs for needing the help to begin with and use it, as further guilt material and constantly throw it in my face that he’s done all of these things to help me. Then he accuses me of him. so you never feel safe to actually accept the help yet they offer push it on you and then use it as a reason to put you down bully you and to guilt trip you
Also, they use that as a way to constantly keep you put down feeling less than them dependent on them and pathetic for it. And they get you to constantly be pouring back into them because you can never do enough to show your gratitude because they’ll never allow that because that’s how they get their supply, they want you tripping over yourself to thank them to do for them to give them praise and it’ll never be enough ever.
Dr Ramani, thank you so much!
This was so painful to hear that I had to pause the video several times. I didn't realize that this is a big part of my reluctance to ask for help. It is so strange, I think, "The worst they can say is no", but really, in my experience, the worst they can say is Yes or No, followed by a diatribe of what a loser you are for asking. I struggle with asking for time off for vacations at work, because I feel like I need to earn it (beyond just doing my job) and prove that I deserve it.
Another way that I have experienced a negative vulnerability loop with a narcissist is that when you ask them for help, they agree BUT only if you immediately pay them back. It both turns the interaction into a transaction AND makes it clear that they don't want to help you unless there is something in it for them.
With all due respect Dr Ramani utilises the vernacular of narcissism far too broadly when empirically speaking they comprise only 1-3% of the general population. As is your case I have a very transactional relationship with my boss at work (I'm a mental health specialise in personality disorders unlike Dr Ramani who has a PhD in a none related field) where she'll only do you a 'favour' if there's something in it for her & I've had to take her to mediation as a result of bullying & gaslighting; is she egotistical & highly disagreeable - yes, is she someone with full blown NPD? No. I've been stalked by a diagnosed psychopath (ASPD) for 2 years & the reality is worlds away from dealing with people that are simply pretty horrible by nature & nurture. On this channel people are too quick to label people with a clinical diagnosis in terms of its aietiology & symptomology they know very little about. I'm sure this is in Dr Ramanis best interests as she's promoting her TH-cam channel & her book but I highly advise to consult professionals like Prof Sam Vaknin who are specialists in the field.
In my experience, my vulnerability was exploited in two specific situations repeatedly - vacations and or when I was sick. The most extreme being a medical emergency/operation.
I attribute my independence to not wanting to have a narcissist have anything over my head. Inevitably, they have the goods so I wind up having to succumb and the cycle of self hatred begins anew. Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
When I needed help I was either ignored or help was given help when I didnt need it at all. Many times in childhood I was slightly tended to and then heavily ignored. I learned throughout the years to do much byself as possible. I dont want to risk anyone to help and end up possibly messing me over.
Very good point about help being given when not needed. They love taking score with that tactic!
Me too
Dr. Ramani and team I am so thankful for your work! It was only when I married and had a child that I understood what unconditional love feels like. I want my son to know I love him regardless but I don't know how to do thay without spoiling him. I tell him everyday before bed but my husband tells me I don't need to because he knows. Does he? Could you PLEASE make a video teaching sons/daughters of narcissistics parents about how to be better parents? I don't have good references of my own!
Thank you❤ If I could do for anyone what you have done for me, I would call my carrer worth it.
Thank you for this video.
Pretty sure i'm completely incapable of trust at this point.
Thankyou. You’ve helped me me better understand my emotions & situation
The Spawn Point was great at making "help" as punishing as possible.
Excellent video, but then again you have produced many excellent videos. This will be yet another video that I will add on my play list. From the bottom of my heart…..thank you! I found this extremely helpful. 🙏❤️
IT TOTALLY DEPENDENT ON HIS MOOD
Be cautious of the first person who comes to help you when you have a flat tire. They were probably the one who caused it.
Sad but true in this day and age.
Most probably true in an analogy to narcissists. I’ve noticed when you have the opportunity or sense they will be needing help themselves, they have already scheduled a flying monkey.
As a child I couldn’t ask for help. I didn’t know how to or wasn’t safe to ask. My needs were neglected and ignored.
The narcissist did the showy thing. Said of coarse I'll help and then only sat around doing like matching socks, what the 4 year old in the room can do, and said that it was good thing they asked for help because you would never have done it without them. If you try to say that wasn't help, you just get rage or pushback as you don't like what they offer for help,
This is an amazing pod cast. I am struggling because what the "narcissist" put on the table and he refuses to help me. He is lazy and makes self righteous excuses. He is entitled and arrogant. He is so vicious and flippant. He claims to be my partner but he is so toxic. He will never help me. When my new puppy , who is a golden doodle,(huge) was jumping on my sick, small sr. dog and I was holding him up in the air trying to get him to safety in another room, my supposed partner would just sit there, refuse to help me and say let the dogs figure it out together. Three months later my small senior dog died and the whole time I was the only one trying to protect him from the giant puppy. I feel hatred towards Phil for this. He rationalizes it. I gray rock him until I could get away financially and have no contact. I pay for half and because he pays for half irrespective of the fact that those are his bills, also, he acts like a big shot. The big shot ism is very challenging for me to deal with. He is a fraud.
I am so sorry.
Make a plan, quietly, hopefully you have a trusted friend, to help you and your puppy.
It won't be easy initially, but there is peace and tranquillity down the track.
You are strong, empower yourself
My mother ☻️ used to ask me what I need all this self-time for (after 35 years of her narcissistic abuse.) I always felt a bit helpless and dizzy.
Trust is extremely expensive.
The Christian minister "friend" I allowed to camp out for free on my ranch property for 6 years would respond, "I really would like to help you, but God won't let me. He wants you to stop being a victim." I had to learn to be needless and let things go unfixed.
After narcissistic abuse, I believe most people are very selfish, they don't care and just NUTS!
As a mental health professional we're much too quick to label people with full blown NPD nowadays when the actual empirical statistics are much more around 1-3%. People are in reality are much more nuanced compromised of good & bad assets on a sliding spectrum. It's a shame the term is over used & not reserved for those who truly have the full blown clinical presentation. People find it difficult to conceive that someone might not be a narcissist who is deceitful, antagonistic & disagreeable to varying degrees etc. Dr Ramani might have a PhD but she doesn't specialise in personality disorders whereas I do, I'm afraid she has an incentive to hype these characteristics up to sell her book & promote her TH-cam channel. Hey ladies gotta earn a living. I'm not saying she's deliberately deceiving people but rather not looking at epidemiological studies & the evidence base that does exist.
@@AnyaAnnika67 While I am not a mental health professional but have had much experience with several narcissistic people on different sliding spectrums, I can tell you that I have spent a sizeable chunk of my life trying to please these personality styles while silently losing myself. Since I found this channel, I have been able to recognize the harm that the narcissistic/toxic people have done to me and I have learned how to better manage relationships with them. Maybe the statistic you quoted is true for full blown NPD, but there are a ton of people with highly narcissistic tendencies that may not fit the statistical criteria or would even be tested but still do immeasurable damage to other people. In my opinion the term "narcissist" may be over used but it is better than couching it with soft words, like "difficult", "insecure", "challenging" all because these abusers are undiagnosed.
How I wish I'd known about narcissism, vulnerability way before I married my now ex narc.
I could never understand why when I asked for help,( Which wasn't often) the excuses I always got was it's to hot/ it's way to cold/ can you not see I'm busy right now etc.
He worked from home iT( but he did have time to find new supply on line!!!!!
Whilst I worked full time, kept house, garden, pruning tree,s and cleaning out the gutters.
If anyone came to the house, he would mock me, of coarse to make him look better to others.
I was always tired, sore back after manual labour, he often relaxed watching TV, ignoring my calls for help.
Deep video. Its so healing hearing you
I’ve learnt to never ask for help for anything. I am heavily disabled, slowly dying because I cannot eat any solid food and barely can move because of my chronic disease: So help is often needed.
But long before my disease got the best of me, my narcissistic parents, siblings and then husband all tought me one thing: ask for help and you shall either regret it or be incredibly disappointed. You will absolutely not be helped and definitely made feel worse about yourself in the process. So why take on that burden added burden ? Haven’t we suffered enough ?
So now I accept that I will die a slow agonizing death but at least I will not be made to feel bad about anything else, especially myself, from anyone: So that’s an upside ! And if you think that cannot be true, then you must not have encountered true narcissist…or not for long. Because they will chip at everything you are without anything left to give or hope for…
Please investigate medical assistance via authorities.
I hope you know the Lord
@@DeaconBeanCooter spend 40 years with almost all narcissists around you and you’ll believe in hell on earth but very little in any gods, or rather no merciful ones.
@@BeeBeeBell one has to be willing to live to seek medical help. I’m way past broken physically and mentally to hope to stay in this hellish life. Beside I do have doctors. They just don’t have any solutions.
@@Romain_Galland hah
If you're going to ask for help you have to be careful that you have the strength to survive the aftermath or it will kill you long before it's saves you. Currently being 'helped.' This included the loss of a space I could go to in a panic attack and find a little peace, the command not to make another one, and the insult of having an animal defecate in the space to make sure I get the point.
I do not trust at all, anymore.
I live alone with my pet birds.
All the multiple options were applicable and resonates with me and was undertaken systematically with me
Struggling with this in the way that we had a friend visit who was so obviously struggling through a narcissist relationship where they were both physical disabled and were relying on each other extensively, esp for emotional regulation. They asked if they could bring their partner who we’ve never met but were getting bad vibes from. We said no, because we have had problems with this guest in the past of adjusting to the challenging rural desert lifestyle.
Turns out they were being heavily emotionally abused. And because we refused their partner (the narc), the victim was heavily relying on ME to emotionally regulate. It’s like anytime I was in the room with them, even when I told them I was in the middle of a task or invited them to come back to spend time with us, I was caught like a deer in headlights with their trauma dumping.
I could only handle so much. It’s like there wasn’t even room for me to say no at the speed they would trap me, and speed they would talk (from the city, we live hours out from a city).
At the end of the day, I tried being as empathic as possible but had to keep removing myself where their head would drop in shame when they probably realized what they were doing. It was really sad, esp because I know they didn’t really have any self control.
Narcissistic abuse destroys peoples mental health to the point where the victims have no control over their venting and it ruins relationships. Narcs WANT to ruin your relationships with others as they want to isolate you.
Good news for my friend, they broke up with their partner after a few weeks when they got back.
Sad news, I realize our 3 years of friendship was not built on trust, it was built on them trauma bonding to me 😢 I’ve been trying to write them for months now, because our friendship was shattered. Hopefully we can start again to see if we can rebuild a friendship. At the end of the day, they kept bringing an unbelievable amount of duress with them into our home and we cannot continue to pick up their tab.
It really hit me hard, and I had to not take it personally when they low key admitted “I just need to talk”
I thought I was being a good friend and we were bonding. Turns out, I was encouraging the trauma dumping and it has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with their emotional regulation.
In that moment, I had to accept I cannot help this person. And nor can I keep listening to them TALK AT ME (they weren’t conversations, they just keep talking at me about their life if I sat next to them or was in the room) because it was becoming increasingly triggering to not have a say. And if I did say something, I then had to deal with the negative mood change of them being told no.
I couldnt even imagine finding the energy to do FUN things with this person because all of the neutral things were so draining.
Are you sure they didn't have a subclinical form of EUPD? It sounds like they may have some features if they're relying on you for emotional regulation. I was stalked by a psychopath for two years and never once did I rely on others for emotional regulation.
@@AnyaAnnika67honestly it’s very likely. They mentioned they had OCD, and there’s likely other mental disorder or personality disorders at play. There’s definitely a lot of trauma in their past and trauma cycles they seem unable to crawl out of.
They were very fragile and sensitive in general - even getting incredibly defensive when I asked them to do the dishwasher instead of handwashing dishes. They ordered our dog to sit before going outside and I corrected in the moment “we don’t make him sit to go outside” (he’s a ranch dog, with autonomy, and incredible intellect / work drive / instincts) and he went into a rant about how at home, they make their dog to sit to go outside to justify their action.
He was very much in survival mode, where anything that confronted how he lives seemed incredibly stressing to the point of refusal. Like he was getting dopamine from following routines that made him feel safe and valued, and simply, thats not what we do because we have to protect our resources in ways that city people don’t think about…
If you’re gonna visit a ranch house in an underserved community (this was a return visitor) it’s expected to respect the house rules because we conform to the land more than we conform to society.
@@AnyaAnnika67they were also incredibly insecure. They even said to me nearly crying at one point - I just want to be good enough 😢
With the task they offered to do, already standing with it hand in front of me before I felt like I even registered what they said. I said yes under the pressure, and then realized I didn’t really want it, cause I was trying to use that thing and then go to bed. It appears as if their obsessive compulsiveness of the best of them. When I said - use this to clean it- and they brushed me off and continued. I confronted and they told me “I know how to clean this”
When literally my partner trained me how to clean the intricate thing to preserve resources.
Our friend didn’t care. They compulsively wanted to clean the thing, and any confrontation to what they wanted to do, created problems.
If you’re gonna volunteer to clean something in someone’s home, I believe it’s common courtesy to at least ask why they want it cleaned that way if you don’t understand.
But if someone is ruled by compulsion to people please, confronting that people pleasing confronts their reality, especially their worth if it’s all wrapped up in that.
I got sick during covid, lost my apartment an sought help from estranged family members in NY. They lured me out there from PA, promised to be there for me. And then switched up on me upon arrival after a 12 hr trip. Dropped me off in the DEAD of winter at an emergency shelter ( which was FREEZING COLD, HAD COTS ON THE FLOOR TO SLEEP ON AND BLOOD ON THE PILLOWS), LEFT ME FOR DEAD, AND then MOCKED MY PAIN, SHAMED ME, BELITTLED ME, and made me feel like I was adulting incorrectly because I needed family help for ONCE! I've been loving in the suburbs and on my own for 18-19 YEARS WITHOUT their help. Turns out these family members couldn't teach or help me with shit because they pride themselves on cheating the system and getting Govt benefits with lies. Yet shamed ME for soing things on a straight and narrow by working hard and honestly for my money! They shamed, and mocked me for having burnout with work and getting sick with covid and losing EVERYTHING!
Thankyou Dr Ramani.
I wanted to mention I went NC recently and it’s been hell to do it all by myself 😢
We were trained to never trust. Never know who’s gonna rip off a mask and when/if we show a need, they choose to hurt you for having that need and not remedy it.
E. Helped but did it half-a$*** and huffed and puffed
I’ve been dealing with this vulnerability issue with my husband while fighting neurological Lyme’s disease. I do not feel safe asking for help, because when I do, I am mostly rejected and ignored. It has been such a hard few years. Thankfully I can be vulnerable with other people-just not my spouse. However, I am very isolated, so I rarely have the opportunity to be vulnerable. I definitely take the opportunity to be vulnerable (and simply be myself) when it comes.
he makes a 'joke' and walks away telling me it is my problem
They make their inner world your outer world.
That's what each of us is doing. But narcissists are coming into our reality with fakeness and agressivity,they want to owning our outer world.
Omg, _nailed_ it!!
Yes!! I keep saying I feel like I'm stuck in someone else's reality! 😢
Yep, they live in a fantasy in their heads and want you to join their delusions.
Hi. May I ask where you sourced this comment or is this an observation in your own words? Thx :)
It's true. We should rather focus on the people who are actually able to feel empathy and are good people overall.
Many people are way too negative nowadays and let their frustration out on other people. I've been there myself and done the same thing. It is a pattern which is hard to break if you get used to it.
The best thing you can do is, just as mentioned, to focus on the positive people without getting influenced by the negativity of others, because they are likely in a bad place (Physically, Mentally, Emotionally) themselves, so it is very hard for them to show empathy, understanding the persons struggles.
Or what about option F?
They do help you,
mostly making it worse because of their way they handle it,
mostly helping just for show to look good,
And after that you should be grateful for them for that forever....
No fun😥 and an extra loop around....
Thank you for sharing dear dr. Ramani 💫🐛💝🙏🏼💝🦋💫
I am the poster child for broken vunerability loops. This description is very helpful to understand what the heck is wrong with me. But how fix the loop?
I have the same question.
@@genevalawrence801 Its probably a lot of hard work. But I am pretty old.
This is amazing because he would say because I didn’t help him I’m being manipulative, while he completely ignores that last 4 years I’ve helped and Saved him time and time again. He never helps hisself. Me, I could never ask him for help and when I did I almost always got BCD. Almost Never a “let’s get through this” or something affirming. And when I finally started to say “no” more, recognizing my help wasent helping and I was being used and stood up for me and told him he is in his situation and has been stuck for the last 4 yrs because he refuses to take responsibility, he stopped communicating.
Looking back. I am a survivor of a Narcissistic relationship.
4:12 YES!!! Any time "I" would ask for help he would get so angry! "Be careful what you ask for help with, especially if you could do it yourself." Or he'd throw down whatever he was doing and stomp off to do what I asked, slamming things and swearing along the way. Or, he would just simply say no. It was always an interruption for him to do anything, even if he was doing nothing. But if he asked me for help and I said no, same reaction! Stomping and swearing. Ya just can't ever win!!
Narcissistic parents also exploit vulnerabilities, if they happen to be sadistic.
So true.for many years i was avided for asking for help 😢
Told me he was going to help me, then the day came and he vanished. Later he told me I’m unsupportive for bringing it up.
G'day Dr Ramani.🐨
Queen Ramani!! ❤
If he were to help when asked,
I then “owe” him in return. Everything is transactional.
I must ask in the right tone & with correct words, which I cannot do in a way he finds acceptable. More often, he just becomes enraged that I would even consider asking for help. He refers to himself as a “slave”. He also says he refuses to trust me as yet another way to hold this unattainable goal (his trust) over me & to keep me constantly trying for the impossible. Living with a covert narc is maddening, invalidating & making me question my own reality.
After my ex spent the nine years of our marriage eroding my trust with his covert abuse and teaching me to not go to him with my vulnerability or needs, the day after the decree absolute came through, he said: "I felt that you didn't need me!" There's just no pleasing some people ...
I hate bullies ❤
You can not trust a narcissist.
I have terrible trust issues. I don’t trust. I don’t connect suspicious of everybody and everything little overwhelming some days. But the loop helps me to understand why.
They undermine our trust because it is what was first broken in them. They pass on the exact abuses they suffered to their victims
Asking for help doesn't mean you have to trust them or be closer to them. Especially when they purposely cause confusion hoping you Will ask for some help. It is all game.
Or they came on strong! Horse hoofs flying, as the hero and heroine saving the day ( yes because of an opportunity to love bomb, get supply somehow) and how I felt? Resistance to them and felt conflicted because they WERE helping. Rescuing me was one of my parents trauma bond that worked every time. It had to HURT! for her to help, eyes rolling. In adulthood this way I feel I need to be rescued (vs support) is a deep one to now see in me.
What about middle-of-the-spectrum situations with narcissism. Where there seems to be a promise of normalcy and help, it begins as such, but it frequently veers into the unacceptably frustrating and escalates from there into abuse and ignorance covering for incompetence in addressing things well.
In short, I believe that property rights, and a firm understanding of relational exchange, will do well in addressing narcissism. If they won't respect property rights, time, thoughts, needs (or show active disrespect for them) then that is a sign of narcissism.
Good compassionate video.
Helped me but on their own terms help was about and for them it was never about or for me
I have NEVER been helped without complaint, never.
Yes- shaming or ignoring / they minimize it too