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Professor Paul Nation: The Scientific Way To Learn Languages
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2024
- In this episode, professor Paul Nation shows us how to learn a language using scientific methods.
Professor Paul Nation's free book: www.wgtn.ac.nz...
Adding timeline would be really helpful.
Sensational tips:
1. Focus.
2. Quantity. > Repetition > Retention.
3. Quality. > Precision.
And keyword ^20-25%
Congratulations.
🔝Guest.
This is how I summarized language learning while watching the videos on this channel. First of all, the basic premise is, “We should listen to the language we want to learn more during the day than your native language.” We all know that doing this absolutely helps, but the question was how to do it. First, let's think about listening, if we have earphones in our ears all day and listen to videos about topics that interest us like these videos, we will be listening to that language for more time than our native language. If we have learned vocabularies in the video by learning the subtitles once to make i +1, it will be very powerful comprehensible inputs. Next, the key is how to use the language more than our native language. It would be best if comprehensible input could lead directly to output. I think the key is to listen and speak accordingly. This should be done for 'use', not for 'copy'. So we don't have to follow everything perfectly, we can just follow the pieces of language that we understand. People who say they learned languages by watching dramas or movies seem to have benefited from these techniques without even realizing it.
41:43 re: developing audio flashcard software. You can already do that with Anki since it has full multimedia support, it's not just a text based program. Since Anki uses mpv/ffmpeg as its media backend you can use virtually every image, audio and video format you can throw at it in your flashcards (at least on PC, mobile client might be more limited).
Great interview! Good questions and you let the interviewee speak.
I am a few weeks short of 79 and am learning German. So, I can thouroughly relate to Dr. Nation. I loved this interview. Have you read „Make it Stick“ by Peter C Brown? Brown presents very specific, current examples and techniques on learning theory.
I have read it. It was a great read.
Finde ich super! Ich hoffe du hast Spaß beim Lernen 🎉
It seems language learning education 26:08 is developing quickly. Mr. NATION is great to listen to. Cutting edge, candid and smart. Thanks to both of you.🎉
Great guest! Yes, a timeline helps weed through the content. A 2-hour video deters me from wanting to watch unless it is broken into parts with labels of the sections. Thank you!
Computer-assisted second language vocabulary learning in a paired-associate paradigm: A critical investigation of flashcard software
is the artcle Paul mentioned.
Professor Nation is a wonderful guest. I just looked at the free book, and it looks like exactly what I need as I embark on my Turkish adventure. Subscribed.
I'm a high school, Latin teacher and am trying to apply these concepts to my classroom. I would love tips on improving my class structure.
In class, I try for 90-95% of the class to be in the target language in i-i+1; about 75% of our activities are a combination of improvised skits, group story adaptation/writing, and drawing pictures on the board to make the hardest parts of readings more comprehensible. I give occasional direct grammar instruction, once students are asking about a specific concept, and will help them analyze the grammar of sentences to give them a familiarity with general grammar.
Outside class, students use Lingua Latina as their primary text for getting input but also have occasional stories I write to give extra exposure to the vocabulary in a different but related context to the book. Students do at least 5 short writing assignments per semester as well.
I'm working on Thai, in country. Anecdotal, but here you go Professor:
I pepper every Thai speaking Farang I run across. There are just a couple things that come up again and again. 1) It's a grind, you just have to put in the time and work and 2) Don't put off reading.
Also, many of the more successful ones at some point kind of whispered under their breath that they just ground through Manee Manaa. :)
Around 9:00 he is talking about 'survival word/phrase lists'; when I was in the Army, I was stationed in Belgium and, like all soldiers there, got 2 weeks of instruction in French that was pretty much that list (plus some specialized military vocabulary, and maybe a little more basic vocabulary than 120 - but not a lot more). I had also (since I was originally slated for Germany until a last minute change) had the same course for German.
This was enough to last me for the next three years, and I traveled all over western Europe. If you start with a friendly attitude and make an effort, you can get pretty far without knowing a lot - especially with a friendly local (and I found most people are pretty friendly).
It's _not_ fluency, but I would argue that 'survival' is maybe underselling it a little...
That's interesting. Do you think that it was a too weak foundation to be built upon? Or what was the reason for the absence of progression, if I may ask?
@@FEARYOYOYO well, I didn't progress much because I didn't really put effort into progress. I could get by, so that was enough for me.
In hindsight, I wish I had taken greater advantage of the opportunity - but what do you expect from a 20 year old? :)
My favorite interview so far on your channel. Thank you for doing this.
That is an excellent video 👌💪
Can you interview this PhD researcher who is authority on language learning app Tatsuya Nakata
Professor, College of Intercultural Communication, Rikkyo University
This video is Great! A very well done interview with a authoritative and influential guest👏🚀🇮🇹Bravo complimenti. Sarebbe interessante un video di confronto tra i 2 accademici: l'ospite di questo video e il Prof. Krashen
Clicked , liked & subbe & commented. Grest interview
Just to add my input - I can hear the video sound too so I'm not sure it's a problem on your end!
Such a nice man and I'm absolutely with him on the correcting, being constantly corrected by family members is such a turn off and teachers are the worst😂
The repetition issue is hard because I know I just lose interest when things get too repetitive
This brings me back to my favourite method: reading because reading texts in a foreign language always is interesting in various ways - the story, the use of vocabulary, the ways of expressing emotions etc.
The graded listening concept is terrific, I'm all for it, keeping my fingers crossed, professor!!😊
I disagree a little about error correction. I think that a good tutor can correct by paraphrasing or using the form deliberately later in the conversation.
At the end they could say - here are one or two areas to think about next time. Personally I wouldn't do more than two per session. Too much focus on errors can be overwhelming and self defeating. One or two problems per session is probably optimal.
In Japan, Kumon has Japanese language lessons for adults. Works well for learning to write.
Native English speaker learning Czech, am doing ok but it is much much harder than an English speaker learning Italian or German.
Pimsluer's US state department weeks to learn is based on how fast you can learn it with TOTAL IMMERSION.
The way it works is the English speaker will live with a family of target language, first week speaking English with a little target language, second week is more target language little English, third week on is ALL total target language.
The Czech class here in Czechia (Czech has 7 cases), at Charles University is taught to all foreign students in ENTIRELY IN CZECH- NO english or any other foreign language. You have to sink or swim. I'm still swimming at this point! 😂
I'm learning Czech by myself but already know Croatian, this has the advantage that I'm familiar with Slavic grammar but the disadvantage that there are many 'false friends' and many similar but not identical words and to speak Czech is very hard because of the many consonants Croatian is easy in comparison! I think immersion is very important especially in the case of Czech, good luck!!😊
Great interview, thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@loistalagrand By the way, I looked for the article about the flash card apps but couldn't find it. Did you get sent the link in the end? (I think I found the study but it didn't seem to mention the apps in there so I assume the article is separate)
How loveley to see Paul Nation on TH-cam!
Time 1:25:50
Lois and Prof. Paul Nation are talking about the so-called Key word technique for memorizing words. Lois says she finds the technique effective but time-consuming. Prof Nation replies that he doesn't have to use it all the time but only with regard to those few words that he hasn't learned through flash cards and their spaced repetition. In fact, Prof. Nation believes that, in the majority of cases, learning new words through flash cards and their spaced repetition is more than sufficient. Residually, you can use the key word technique and other techniques, such as the analysis of the word you don't remember, its insertion in multiple contexts, visualizing it, etc...
Furthermore, Prof. Nation says that, once you have learned the new words, you need to build fluency on them, for example by reading and listening to real content. This will speed up access to vocabulary already learned
Great conversation. Please interview Jeff Mcquillian
Would be nice if links of mentioned scientific paper doi s added
If your application is to have written text that is paired with the audio, that would be far more ideal than it being soley based on audio
It would be better for some people, but the first version really focuses on speaking and listening.
هطبق وان شاء الله تبارك وتعالى بعد سنه او اتنين اقدر❤❤❤❤
Instant subscribe. Incredible interview (though I respectfully disagree with Mr. Nation). Super excited for the interview with BVP (my favorite LA researcher). Thanks for this.
The problems I see are: yes deliberate practices contribute to some bits of LA, but what is the QUALITY of that knowledge (pronunciation, usage, etc.) how lasting it is and how easy to recall., etc. That is an important dimension and needs to be a part of the conversation in comparing different approaches.
I'm going to post BVP's interview pretty soon.
Thanks for your efforts
Could someone do me a favor and put a comment with the timestamps?
0:19. Vo-cab-*you*-lar-y rather than vo-ca-buh-lar-y
(Sorry, but I don't really get IPA indicators./
You mean, "vōˈkabyəˌlerē." 😂
Very helpful! Thank you❤
I love learning languages , I prefer real flashcards , maybe because I never could get around Anki, it seemed somewhat technical... I preferred memories as it was more user-friendly. Maybe you could give any link on a good instruction how to use Anke
clear voice on my end.
The use of AI suggested around 24:00 for graded listening material is great!
Definitely a good idea. It should be feasible in the near future.
That's super red, Loïs
Thanks a lot....................
That is amazing interview, I love it. I have watched most of his interview. The worst being called
Debating Paul Nation on Teaching and Learning a Language(you can Google it )
This one is really helpful!!!!! I love it
By the way, what is the name of this he researcher who developed criteria for memorization apps?? Minute 48
I have sound
Also congrats on the native level compliment man
Many of your videos are an hour or two long. Can you summarise the interview in bullet points for those who lack the time or inclination to listen to the whole interview?
When will Fluent Falcon be released?
Personally I think that one cannot learn pronunciation without seeing the written form although I can appreciate that this may not apply to each and every language. This is because not everyone pronuances the same word in the same way and not everyone hears the same way. For example the "i" in the word "family", is not always heard. Rather it can be heard when you know it is there. In Korean I did not realise there was an "h" sound in "agnyonghaseyo" ("hello") until I saw it written and then I noticed some people pronuanced it more clearly whereas others did not. Or from French, "je suis" can be pronounced differently too as well as "oui" so at least when starting to learn the language, I prefer to see the word written when pronounced and then I can listen to flashcards and repeat more comfortably even if not seeing the word too. The written form could be optional when testing oneself as in that case the written form would be a give away 🙂 I found the app TEUIDA quite helpful in the way that it is like an interaction with a person who speaks at you. Not sure how much I will learn as I only just started but I get quite nervous when speaking with natives when I only just started using the language "for real" so it helps with that.
Good luck with your software.
time stamps?
Où habitez vous, Löis ?
Dude! You expect people to watch a 2 hour TH-cam video without time stamps?
IFyou think the subject material is important you should really make it accessible to the general public.
Anki means memorize in Japanese,it is a Japanese word.
You can also say obueru which is remeber but both OK
good
no timestamps = i'm just going to use a chatgpt extension to summarize the transcript :p ain't nobody got time
I’m learning Chinese at the moment and what helps with the characters is that with computers (incl. cell phones), you can write them only by knowing (1) their pinyin transcription and (2) what they look like; you don’t have to learn how to write them by hand. For (2), James Heisig’s books are incredibly helpful-he (co)wrote books for Kanji, traditional Chinese letters and simplified Chinese letters: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembering_the_Kanji_and_Remembering_the_Hanzi
I don't get this whole idea that there needs to be a balance, and you have to do everything equally. This 'Four Strands' thing just sounds like nonsense to me. There are MANY people who have learned a language 100% from input, and there are literally billions who've done it with their native language. I feel like this idea of 'balance' stems from people who never got nearly enough input and concluded that it doesn't work by itself. IMO, this is the big misunderstanding of the input hypothesis; getting 600-1000 hours isn't even close to enough. The input needs to be MASSIVE, and you probably need more than 10K hours of it, and intensely too. If you look at a 7 year-old child, they've probably had 20k+ hours of listening, and that's a conservative estimate. Most adults don't have the luxury of that kind of time, but it's about proof of concept. 100% input absolutely works, but most adult learners never get to find that out.
I know many people who have great comprehension of language but speaks poorly, or people who can speak almost like a fluent speaker but struggles to understand what people are saying. What is your actual point? Is it hard for you to understand that people who do lots of listening and reading as adults,. don't necessarily speak well and vice versa..this isn't controversial st this stage.
The best scientific way is to live in an English-speaking country or immerse yourself completely.
It is a good way, but science actually showed the is not "a condicio sine qua non" and Is not the best scientific way to learn a language
@@matteoallegretti1663 Actually there is no scientific way to learn english, immersing to the language is the proven way so far
@@TLK3324 Actually there is, the so called input ipothesis of Prof. Steven Krashen: immersing in lots of listening and reading of compelling comprehensible input. And for doing this, the only travel you need is to the library. Once you've built lots of passive vocabulary, travel abroad and there have speaking practice, is an optimum way to activate that passive vocabulary that is already in you
Would be nice for this professor to take some English pronunciation classes.
The World isn't drying to learn Kiwi.
Absinthe majority of English speakers speak American.
I think that prior to being rude, it may behoove you to spell correctly and/or use the proper vocabulary in English in order to make your point. :)
Lois, it seems the whole video has no sound, unfortunately
I can hear the sound of
@@huesophie299 Yes, it's since been fixed. Cheers
let me make it clear to you folks, language learning (more accurately language acquisition) takes years there is no need to waste your time with grammar and other bullshit. Just listen and read for a few years to any language with passion, and you will become like a native speaker in (not no time but) a few years.
thanks for the advice
@@loistalagrand Sorry for bad choice of words earlier. Keep up the good work!
Only 6 or so minutes into the video and I am quite disappointed (turned off, so will not watch further) because among the five most important jobs of the "teacher" (my quotation marks as I have outgrown the term) this supposed expert does not mention that the best "teachers" are those who are highly effective at transmitting their enthusiasm for the subject matter. Then of course we have the roles or functions of guidance, corrections, explanations, etc. But to insist so much, for example, on testing and other "formal" aspects shows how retrograde this guy actually is. How unfortunate!
Without sound
Pronunciation is way overrated
Oh BS, the Matt Damon lookalike grew up in an English speaking environment, maybe a parent spoke American English.
English is his native language, stop with the RUSE.
You're calling me the Matt Damon lookalike?
As a native American, I will say his English is excellent, better than many native Americans. Though, the silent or aspirated French "h" dilemma within the confines of "th" pronunciation is the only thing that gives him away! :) Awesome podcast.
@@WeeTheSheeple
SheBear 🐻
Native American, really?
So cool.
What Tribe are you from ? Did you grow up on a reservation ?
I hear your people don't need to pay any taxes.
@Alec72HD sherBear:) A nickname given to me by loved ones, thanks! I'm a tax paying American citizen that helps you at your local emergency room. What do you contribute to society? Petty sarcasm? I guess every village needs a town fool.
This is a kind man's yt page with great content. Please don't spoil what neutral content is freely given to the general public.
@@WeeTheSheeple
Let me guess Tiger Bear, Sher Khan is the King.
Native Americans used to be called Indians.
Namaste 🙏.
Indian English isn't a language, it's a foreign accent.