Hey folks, designer here! Really great to see this! What a great video. David your results are fantastic, really fun to see your S22 riding so great and see your build approach. Edit: Wow, just got to the "sanding the sliders" part. That's some serious effort and dedication! 😳 These STLs were very much made with my printer's tight tolerances in mind. The latest version has ~2x the slider clearance and will be much easier to get sliding smoothly. 😊
@@DavidRaney Why thank you! Your dedication to perfect slider fit really paid off, your ride is legitimately better than mine is- the bar has been raised!
If you don't mind my asking, what printer do you have & what slicer settings did you use to print yours?? I'm looking at getting a 3D printer soon, Creality CR10 V3 Pro & these, along with a new front bumper, are gonna be some of the first things I print (as well as a couple benchy boats to figure out how it works)
As the bolt holding the slider is acting like a wedge and spreading the plastic until it touches the roller, how about a small modification? Is there enough space to replacing the countersunk holes with flat bottom holes and use dome headed bolts instead?
I did mine in ABS and sanded mine before fitting the bearings, much easier that way and I was able to test fit them before taking the wheel apart by using access to the top of the front sliders. 100km in and working well so far
Have you been in dusty/dirty conditions yet and if so have you noticed any noises coming from the sliders? I have about 40 miles, 20 miles on a dirt path, and starting to have noises come from the sliders but the performance is still good.
I saw some people commenting on facebook pages in regards to the structural strength of a 3D print & my response was to print in ABS/ASA due to it being much stronger, I notice it's been 3 weeks since you're comment, have you had any issues yet with ABS??
damb the S20 was one of the most hyped wheels ever ..... and with a 100 dollar deposit so many brought it including myself... we really are test dummies... I'm sure the S23.0 is gonna be amazing... for not its "headache city" for us DIY-ers!!!
Regarding printing, there's tons of videos out there that tackle these issues of accuracy. But it generally comes down to tuning the EM (extrusion multiplier) so you get just the right amount of flow so your parts don't bulge and gets thicker than projected. The lip on the bottom of each print is called elephants foot and is easily tuned by Z adjustment, or printing on a raft and then cleaned up. Hope it helps!
It's been a few days since I stopped experimenting with this concept for now. It has two major weaknesses. The first is the resistance of the axes of the printed slider. I tested the impact strength (a case where the wheel is hit from the front in a horizontal direction, typically a pothole or hitting a curb, etc.). PETG is completely useless, even with 100% filling, the axes immediately cracked. When printed from nylon, it does not crack, but gradually the axis squeezes out, or bends, then the bearing no longer holds exactly in place and begins to rub, or loses the ideal trace in the profile. This causes the nylon torus (wheel circumference) to wear out faster. I also invested several thousand CZK (~hundreds USD) in a special co-polymer with carbon nano fibers. This is perhaps the only material that would withstand impacts for some time, but it is really extremely expensive, secondly, it is quite difficult to process it further after printing, because when grinding irregularities or tolerances, this material leaves microscopic "hairs" of carbon fibers on the surface. These then act as a very strong abrasive and it is almost certain that the guide profile would be damaged over time. And the other problem is the fact that the only usable bearing is also so extremely small that there is no chance of it lasting any reasonable amount of time. Very soon it will disintegrate and there is a risk of a very rapid formation of play in the drives and loss of control over the wheel. Even the torus itself is pressed on the bearing from one side, i.e. the rim is only on one side, after a while wear will occur on one side and there is a risk that the torus will slide off the bearing, or it will wear down to the metal. At that moment, the bearing starts to rub against the profile. Metal on metal, steel vs. aluminium. Again, the destruction of the ride profile.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm getting quite a bit of noise coming from the sliders and plan to break down the wheel this weekend to see what is going on. Hope to have a follow up video coming soon.
@@DavidRaney I got some bearings ordered. I'm planning to start over and design my own. I'm going to try doing a soft suspension. I'm a bit concerned about the "tires" ripping apart. I need to figure out the forces and maybe fit in as many bearings as possible or find a more ideal material.
@@DavidRaney Yes, and for good reason. When the slider friction is too great, it only provides shock absorption to large impacts. The small bumps can really make my head hurt. I jumped my wheel a lot but now since my knees hurt, I'm much more interested in very plush suspension, but enough to where I can still curb hop. I think the s22 still has potential to have that kind of behavior, but a good slider will be key. It seems like since the force isn't symetrical, certain slider wheels will get more weight. I have to draw it on paper to know for sure.. And I definitely want to custom sew a black vinyl seat that has foam. The stock plastic seat is transferring all the shock to my head as well. It's not healthy.
I know there are a lot of euc’s now. But on the looks department I like the s22 very much. And performance is plenty for me (I don’t ride too fast and I’m not really heavy)
I have a lot of thoughts about this. First off you did a great job thoroughly covering the steps, thanks. My overall feeling however is frustration. I am frustrated that that $3000+ wheel that is all about suspension has such a fatal flaw. It's ridiculous. The idea that a customer needs to do all of this just to make the suspension work effectively is inexcusable. The end result is good but as you said, the question is for how long until something wears out/breaks? I am not quite sure if I will find the motivation to do this or just ride a different suspension wheel that actually works as promised.
I can not disagree. I think we just find ourselves in the middle of wheel evolution and we are paying the price while wishing it would evolve faster. At this moment in time the S22 is still my wheel of choice for the type of riding that I do.
I so agree with the idea that for the money we are paying, we shouldn't have to fix and change a bunch of stuff. Unfortunately this is the reality for all of the manufacturers. Examples on my EX20S, terrible tire out of the box, shock pump also terrible, headlight is marginal, tail light is nearly useless, cooling fan is going out in less than 500 miles.......
Nice project! You can try print these from CF-Nylon (Nylon with carbon fiber) that material is extreme durable and have better printing clearance. Perfect for such mechanic usage.
{tl;dr... wish list} Nice upgrade. I'm wanting more psi in both tire and shock but that's a separate issue. The rails I'd like to see milled out of HDPE with rollers on a rocker arm/tension springs with double the number of roller bearings per rail. The chevron pattern from the old rail plungers should be transferred to the slider rail (using bristle brush inserts) for better debris removal. Dirt egress shielding could also be improved by integrating an outer cap to the rail to further isolate the channel. The bearing wheels should be urethane HDPU (like most roller skates/skateboards/replacement hip-sockets) and should have a roughened texture to lessen the possibility of sliding against the inner aluminum channel versus rolling, geared teeth would be more ideal. I'm not sold on the 3D print as a "final solution" but it's a great start to an evolving iteration. {Damn, I'm opinionated, and I don't even have a newer suspension wheel... yet.} A carbon/graphite filament would make me feel better about lessening channel wear but time will tell (why the battery cases aren't anodized is also a mystery). Lastly, if 3D printing with embedded MoS2 (dry molybdenum disulfide) were possible, I'd prefer this to any paste type of grease or lubricant. This system should be dry/non-oily because grease will just accumulate contaminants. Butchers Wax (NOT paraffin) could be used to periodically clean the rails if one is careful not to get any on the roller/channel contact surfaces. {Also, use "white gas" to clean, not wd-40, which leaves a residue}. With that said, awesome job! And thanks for the information. The S-22 may just rise like a phoenix after all the initial quirks (design flaws) are minimized through the community input and version upgrades. There are plenty of other items on my wish list {i.e. magnesium anodized cases w/ titanium channel inserts and active electronic suspension- not that Delco crap} but organic growth is the price to be paid for an under-capitalized niche industry, such as it is. {...couldn't resist}
Kingsong should have just upgraded the S18 design. I own one and that design is solid. It took a real labor of love for you to get your S22 to approach the S18 suspension. Your video is great and I think it will help people. I did a similar effort to fix my Master from bottoming out. I posted a video of that as well. Have you noticed your S22 bottoming out now that you reduced the sliding friction?
I had the original S18 and actually had a bit of trouble with the suspension when I first got it. After a bit of cutting and things it turned out much better. As for the S22, I have taken it over a few (I would call) average jumps about 18" in the air and have not come close to bottoming out. I'm on stock spring and weigh 190lbs.
I've also had a great experience with my S18 Molicel. I just spray a bit of dry lube every so often and everything stays pretty smooth. Would be nice to see them keep iterating on the design.
This is a very specifically detailed video! Thank you so much for sharing. My S22 is arriving next week. Just a quick question tho: How would these 3d printed sliders last under heavy use? In other words, the longevity of it, compare to the stock slider.
I enjoyed watching your video and I don't even have an S22. I liked the pacing and detail that you put in it. I see this has gotten a lot of feedback so my question may get lost. You stated that in the past that your attempts with lubricants would fade after 10-15 miles of riding. At the end of this video you state that you did a 2 mile ride and everything is great. My question is, how is it after 15 miles? What about 50 miles? That seems to be a better comparison to the former cleaning and lubrication methods.
I'm working on a follow up video and you will see that I rode for 20 miles on pavement with great results. After that I did a 15 mile ride on a dusty road and all kinds of noises started happening. I am going to break back into the wheel this weekend and should have a video follow up pretty soon.
Allen wrenches and a Phillips headed screwdriver. There are some breakdown videos out there somewhere. I was actually watching the video while I was doing it myself.
Great video. I think I am too lazy and enjoy the S22 enough that it wouldn’t be worth the time for me. But definitely looks like it makes a difference. I think when king song gets another go at this wheel it will be one if not the best. Too many new things at once for them.
Thanks for watching. I really like the roller design and hope Kingsong will consider putting more effort into alleviating all the friction in their suspension systems. I had an S18 that I spent a lot of time working out the friction points. I got it dialed in but it shouldn't take this much work.
@@DavidRaney Really they should be producing replacement sliders based on this concept and sending them for free to any customer willing to do the labor to install them.
@@DavidRaney I think you are right. I changed my order due to too many out of the box and rider complaints. I have owned a few Kingsongs in past. However, until KS makes an improvement or a even say a slider as the one used in your video can be bought as a kit, less people may have interest in the KS22. Credit to the designer and you. Well done on the improvement. I enjoyed the video.
Sounds like you need .005 shims on the side of bearings... Do you have channel covers??? What about using drawer slides??? 🤔 What I need to know is how much space between the back of channel and the back of the side bar...
Right now the bearings are not rubbing on anything but the shims are probably a good idea. I don to have channel covers yet, I'm doing a 200 mile review to see how they hold up with dust a debris.
I mean, in my head at least, referencing attaching the sliders & making sure they're tight, using locktight, etc To me at least, it doesn't need to be so tight, as the outer slider frame will keep everything tucked away, even if it where to be a bit loose, no parts should come out, as it's all snug??
Something I didn't mention in the video was the first one I crushed was with an electric drill. The others I used red lock-tight and tightened down by hand using a regular wrench and was able to get it pretty tight without deforming the material. If the screws start backing out they could start rubbing against the inner section of the sliders and that wouldn't be good.
Hi David - just purchased my S22 and very much interested in this upgrade. I too spent time tuning my S18 suspension and look forward to the benefits of doing the same with my S22. I do not have a 3D printer, any advice as to how to get a set of sliders manufactured? Is this something you would consider on consignment?
I actually had a friend print it for me. It is my understanding you can pay people to print objects somewhere online. Out of the box you’re gonna love the S22. This upgrade became more important to me as I started riding more dusty/dirty trails. It is so effective I’m hoping some entrepreneur will start developing a plug and play version soon and sell it for a reasonable cost.
I have heard of people talk about it but haven't seen anyone actually do it yet. I think this design will need some more updates before a final product can go to "market".
Thanks for the video. But I mean COME ON!!!!!! REALLY? This is a 3200 dollar machine!!! Aint no way in hell we should have to go through all THAT crap just to have a functioning wheel thst SHOULD work well out the box. My name aint Kingsong and i dont get paid to repair wheels. This is exactly WHY I returned my S22 for a full refund. This wheel is a piece of SH!!@$##@!!! PERIOD. Kingsong sold us a dream. Bearing issues, temperature sensor issues, weirdo noises, control board issues. This wheel is by far the BIGGEST disappointment of wheels this year. Why should I have to revamp the suspension sliders on a 3200 dollar wheel? B.S
I just bought the S22 - seems to me I did huge mistake . this is a new unit - why do you need to fix new unit ? kingsong MUST find a solution . they took our money - they can't send us printing parts for 150 mile units !! This unit is garbage until fixed .
Thank you so much for sharing! Superb video. I had a temptation to buy this wheel, but now... Ok, even if suspension will work. There's motor issues, and i think sliders still open, so dust and dirt will collect in there. Fire issues i hope in past already. Metal battery casing, bad for subzero temperatures. And only alternative is Master, that's far from perfect too. So sad. I hope you and your wheel will be fine!
Hey folks, designer here! Really great to see this! What a great video. David your results are fantastic, really fun to see your S22 riding so great and see your build approach.
Edit: Wow, just got to the "sanding the sliders" part. That's some serious effort and dedication! 😳 These STLs were very much made with my printer's tight tolerances in mind. The latest version has ~2x the slider clearance and will be much easier to get sliding smoothly. 😊
Tim, thanks for sharing your design. The deeper I got into the project the more impressed I became with your work.
@@DavidRaney Why thank you! Your dedication to perfect slider fit really paid off, your ride is legitimately better than mine is- the bar has been raised!
If you don't mind my asking, what printer do you have & what slicer settings did you use to print yours?? I'm looking at getting a 3D printer soon, Creality CR10 V3 Pro & these, along with a new front bumper, are gonna be some of the first things I print (as well as a couple benchy boats to figure out how it works)
@@ChickenLittle2323 See the design page and join the discord or telegram chat! We're happy to help.
As the bolt holding the slider is acting like a wedge and spreading the plastic until it touches the roller, how about a small modification? Is there enough space to replacing the countersunk holes with flat bottom holes and use dome headed bolts instead?
I don’t have a S22 but I enjoyed the technical part of the video. Thank you!!!
I did mine in ABS and sanded mine before fitting the bearings, much easier that way and I was able to test fit them before taking the wheel apart by using access to the top of the front sliders. 100km in and working well so far
Have you been in dusty/dirty conditions yet and if so have you noticed any noises coming from the sliders? I have about 40 miles, 20 miles on a dirt path, and starting to have noises come from the sliders but the performance is still good.
@@DavidRaney no noises yet but I don't ride on many dirt tracks and I have tape covering front slider tracks
I saw some people commenting on facebook pages in regards to the structural strength of a 3D print & my response was to print in ABS/ASA due to it being much stronger, I notice it's been 3 weeks since you're comment, have you had any issues yet with ABS??
damb the S20 was one of the most hyped wheels ever ..... and with a 100 dollar deposit so many brought it including myself... we really are test dummies... I'm sure the S23.0 is gonna be amazing... for not its "headache city" for us DIY-ers!!!
I dont think anything can get this guy mad. So much patience 😌
Haha, I edited out all the fits of rage. :)
“Beware the rage of a quiet man.”
Regarding printing, there's tons of videos out there that tackle these issues of accuracy.
But it generally comes down to tuning the EM (extrusion multiplier) so you get just the right amount of flow so your parts don't bulge and gets thicker than projected.
The lip on the bottom of each print is called elephants foot and is easily tuned by Z adjustment, or printing on a raft and then cleaned up.
Hope it helps!
It's been a few days since I stopped experimenting with this concept for now. It has two major weaknesses. The first is the resistance of the axes of the printed slider. I tested the impact strength (a case where the wheel is hit from the front in a horizontal direction, typically a pothole or hitting a curb, etc.). PETG is completely useless, even with 100% filling, the axes immediately cracked. When printed from nylon, it does not crack, but gradually the axis squeezes out, or bends, then the bearing no longer holds exactly in place and begins to rub, or loses the ideal trace in the profile. This causes the nylon torus (wheel circumference) to wear out faster. I also invested several thousand CZK (~hundreds USD) in a special co-polymer with carbon nano fibers. This is perhaps the only material that would withstand impacts for some time, but it is really extremely expensive, secondly, it is quite difficult to process it further after printing, because when grinding irregularities or tolerances, this material leaves microscopic "hairs" of carbon fibers on the surface. These then act as a very strong abrasive and it is almost certain that the guide profile would be damaged over time. And the other problem is the fact that the only usable bearing is also so extremely small that there is no chance of it lasting any reasonable amount of time. Very soon it will disintegrate and there is a risk of a very rapid formation of play in the drives and loss of control over the wheel. Even the torus itself is pressed on the bearing from one side, i.e. the rim is only on one side, after a while wear will occur on one side and there is a risk that the torus will slide off the bearing, or it will wear down to the metal. At that moment, the bearing starts to rub against the profile. Metal on metal, steel vs. aluminium. Again, the destruction of the ride profile.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm getting quite a bit of noise coming from the sliders and plan to break down the wheel this weekend to see what is going on. Hope to have a follow up video coming soon.
I’m still baffled KS thought having an exposed slider was ok, and went forward with production.
You and me both.
The s18 had a wheel well, doesn't make sense they didn't make one for the $1000 more wheel...
Fantastic video, very thorough ! Thx
Glad you enjoyed it!
Its a great mod, and makes one actually consider purchasing the S22 now.
Follow up coming. I'm not sure this is a full solution.
Very nice job! 🤔
Thanks!
Nice video! I love this project!
Thanks. It was a lot of work but I enjoyed understanding the wheel better and it was gratifying to have improved performance.
Great video! Looking forward to a follow up video after using the new setup a while.
Working on it now. Breaking down the wheel this weekend to see the results.
th-cam.com/video/JjW1t6JjXdo/w-d-xo.html
Hey neighbor, you're from the southeast, southeast US riders are by far the coolest:) Great work!!
Hey, thanks!
Amazing! Now I know what to use my carbon fiber PC for. Maybe I could convince one of my friends to mill this out of aluminum which would be ideal.
This project needs to evolve. It is not perfect by any stretch.
@@DavidRaney I got some bearings ordered. I'm planning to start over and design my own. I'm going to try doing a soft suspension. I'm a bit concerned about the "tires" ripping apart. I need to figure out the forces and maybe fit in as many bearings as possible or find a more ideal material.
@@UnidudeNine be sure to share your results. There are a lot of people that are obviously interested in any improvements to this system.
@@DavidRaney Yes, and for good reason. When the slider friction is too great, it only provides shock absorption to large impacts. The small bumps can really make my head hurt. I jumped my wheel a lot but now since my knees hurt, I'm much more interested in very plush suspension, but enough to where I can still curb hop. I think the s22 still has potential to have that kind of behavior, but a good slider will be key. It seems like since the force isn't symetrical, certain slider wheels will get more weight. I have to draw it on paper to know for sure.. And I definitely want to custom sew a black vinyl seat that has foam. The stock plastic seat is transferring all the shock to my head as well. It's not healthy.
@@UnidudeNine I agree completely.
Amazing job. I will look forward to the video about the level of the bearing rubber and the condition of the hole around the bolts.
Coming soon!
th-cam.com/video/JjW1t6JjXdo/w-d-xo.html
I know there are a lot of euc’s now. But on the looks department I like the s22 very much. And performance is plenty for me (I don’t ride too fast and I’m not really heavy)
I agree, love the look and performance of the wheel.
Fantastic Content. Thank You For Sharing. have a good day!❤👍
Thank you.
I have a lot of thoughts about this. First off you did a great job thoroughly covering the steps, thanks. My overall feeling however is frustration. I am frustrated that that $3000+ wheel that is all about suspension has such a fatal flaw. It's ridiculous. The idea that a customer needs to do all of this just to make the suspension work effectively is inexcusable. The end result is good but as you said, the question is for how long until something wears out/breaks? I am not quite sure if I will find the motivation to do this or just ride a different suspension wheel that actually works as promised.
I can not disagree. I think we just find ourselves in the middle of wheel evolution and we are paying the price while wishing it would evolve faster. At this moment in time the S22 is still my wheel of choice for the type of riding that I do.
Oh, and thanks for the complement. Means a lot coming from you!
@@DavidRaney Sure thing man, if I decide to do this myself I'll refer to your video 😁
I so agree with the idea that for the money we are paying, we shouldn't have to fix and change a bunch of stuff. Unfortunately this is the reality for all of the manufacturers. Examples on my EX20S, terrible tire out of the box, shock pump also terrible, headlight is marginal, tail light is nearly useless, cooling fan is going out in less than 500 miles.......
@@bleeder228 I happen to have an EX20S as well, lol... Still have the stock tire on mine but considering putting my old Sherman street tire on it.
definitely interested in a follow up video after a few hundred miles showing the condition of everything changed
th-cam.com/video/JjW1t6JjXdo/w-d-xo.html
Well done 👍
Thank you 👍
Nice project! You can try print these from CF-Nylon (Nylon with carbon fiber) that material is extreme durable and have better printing clearance. Perfect for such mechanic usage.
Thanks for the tip!
why they didn't do this in the first place, nice Content you got a sub
Now lets get King Song to do this so we don't have to!!
I'm hoping they will do something even better.
{tl;dr... wish list}
Nice upgrade. I'm wanting more psi in both tire and shock but that's a separate issue. The rails I'd like to see milled out of HDPE with rollers on a rocker arm/tension springs with double the number of roller bearings per rail. The chevron pattern from the old rail plungers should be transferred to the slider rail (using bristle brush inserts) for better debris removal. Dirt egress shielding could also be improved by integrating an outer cap to the rail to further isolate the channel. The bearing wheels should be urethane HDPU (like most roller skates/skateboards/replacement hip-sockets) and should have a roughened texture to lessen the possibility of sliding against the inner aluminum channel versus rolling, geared teeth would be more ideal.
I'm not sold on the 3D print as a "final solution" but it's a great start to an evolving iteration. {Damn, I'm opinionated, and I don't even have a newer suspension wheel... yet.} A carbon/graphite filament would make me feel better about lessening channel wear but time will tell (why the battery cases aren't anodized is also a mystery). Lastly, if 3D printing with embedded MoS2 (dry molybdenum disulfide) were possible, I'd prefer this to any paste type of grease or lubricant. This system should be dry/non-oily because grease will just accumulate contaminants. Butchers Wax (NOT paraffin) could be used to periodically clean the rails if one is careful not to get any on the roller/channel contact surfaces. {Also, use "white gas" to clean, not wd-40, which leaves a residue}.
With that said, awesome job! And thanks for the information. The S-22 may just rise like a phoenix after all the initial quirks (design flaws) are minimized through the community input and version upgrades. There are plenty of other items on my wish list {i.e. magnesium anodized cases w/ titanium channel inserts and active electronic suspension- not that Delco crap} but organic growth is the price to be paid for an under-capitalized niche industry, such as it is. {...couldn't resist}
Thanks for the feedback. This is definitely not a perfect solution.
@@DavidRaney I applaud your contribution. Thanks
Kingsong should have just upgraded the S18 design. I own one and that design is solid. It took a real labor of love for you to get your S22 to approach the S18 suspension. Your video is great and I think it will help people. I did a similar effort to fix my Master from bottoming out. I posted a video of that as well. Have you noticed your S22 bottoming out now that you reduced the sliding friction?
I had the original S18 and actually had a bit of trouble with the suspension when I first got it. After a bit of cutting and things it turned out much better. As for the S22, I have taken it over a few (I would call) average jumps about 18" in the air and have not come close to bottoming out. I'm on stock spring and weigh 190lbs.
I've also had a great experience with my S18 Molicel. I just spray a bit of dry lube every so often and everything stays pretty smooth. Would be nice to see them keep iterating on the design.
This is a very specifically detailed video! Thank you so much for sharing. My S22 is arriving next week.
Just a quick question tho: How would these 3d printed sliders last under heavy use? In other words, the longevity of it, compare to the stock slider.
The question of durability will come with time. They are doing fine for me now and I plan to have a 200 mile review coming up pretty soon.
@@DavidRaney awsome. Will def check when that's out.
th-cam.com/video/JjW1t6JjXdo/w-d-xo.html
I really hope this is robust enough for hundreds of miles!
You and me both. I currently have 30 miles on them in dusty conditions without a change in performance. Time will tell.
I enjoyed watching your video and I don't even have an S22. I liked the pacing and detail that you put in it. I see this has gotten a lot of feedback so my question may get lost. You stated that in the past that your attempts with lubricants would fade after 10-15 miles of riding. At the end of this video you state that you did a 2 mile ride and everything is great.
My question is, how is it after 15 miles? What about 50 miles? That seems to be a better comparison to the former cleaning and lubrication methods.
I'm working on a follow up video and you will see that I rode for 20 miles on pavement with great results. After that I did a 15 mile ride on a dusty road and all kinds of noises started happening. I am going to break back into the wheel this weekend and should have a video follow up pretty soon.
th-cam.com/video/JjW1t6JjXdo/w-d-xo.html
Would love a non time-lapse version of the tear down
And what tools you needed for the tear down
Allen wrenches and a Phillips headed screwdriver. There are some breakdown videos out there somewhere. I was actually watching the video while I was doing it myself.
Great video. I think I am too lazy and enjoy the S22 enough that it wouldn’t be worth the time for me. But definitely looks like it makes a difference. I think when king song gets another go at this wheel it will be one if not the best. Too many new things at once for them.
Thanks for watching. I really like the roller design and hope Kingsong will consider putting more effort into alleviating all the friction in their suspension systems. I had an S18 that I spent a lot of time working out the friction points. I got it dialed in but it shouldn't take this much work.
@@DavidRaney Really they should be producing replacement sliders based on this concept and sending them for free to any customer willing to do the labor to install them.
I completely agree. If they did they would build a much more loyal customer base in my opinion.
@@DavidRaney I think you are right. I changed my order due to too many out of the box and rider complaints. I have owned a few Kingsongs in past. However, until KS makes an improvement or a even say a slider as the one used in your video can be bought as a kit, less people may have interest in the KS22. Credit to the designer and you. Well done on the improvement. I enjoyed the video.
That's a wonderful mod! I'll surely try it by printing in PETG!!
A little question for you: which spring you have? The stock 750lb?
Yes, everything else about the wheel is still stock. No other modifications.
@@DavidRaney Woah, that's incredible then! I've tried to pump my S22 but it didn't have that kind of excursion!
PTFE - 폴리테트라플루오로에틸렌 으로 슬라이더 가공은 어떤가요.
베어링보다 훨신더 효과 있을것 같은데요.
Sounds like you need .005 shims on the side of bearings... Do you have channel covers???
What about using drawer slides??? 🤔
What I need to know is how much space between the back of channel and the back of the side bar...
Right now the bearings are not rubbing on anything but the shims are probably a good idea. I don to have channel covers yet, I'm doing a 200 mile review to see how they hold up with dust a debris.
Can anyone see a 3D project for the extension of the handle?
Big kid ........................you are!
Must… stay…. young.
Hey they look great ,I was wondering if you would build me some for a Fee?
Unfortunately I had to twist a friend's arm to get them printed and I have been reminded ever since how much I owe him in favors. ;)
I mean, in my head at least, referencing attaching the sliders & making sure they're tight, using locktight, etc
To me at least, it doesn't need to be so tight, as the outer slider frame will keep everything tucked away, even if it where to be a bit loose, no parts should come out, as it's all snug??
Something I didn't mention in the video was the first one I crushed was with an electric drill. The others I used red lock-tight and tightened down by hand using a regular wrench and was able to get it pretty tight without deforming the material. If the screws start backing out they could start rubbing against the inner section of the sliders and that wouldn't be good.
Hi David - just purchased my S22 and very much interested in this upgrade. I too spent time tuning my S18 suspension and look forward to the benefits of doing the same with my S22. I do not have a 3D printer, any advice as to how to get a set of sliders manufactured? Is this something you would consider on consignment?
I actually had a friend print it for me. It is my understanding you can pay people to print objects somewhere online. Out of the box you’re gonna love the S22. This upgrade became more important to me as I started riding more dusty/dirty trails. It is so effective I’m hoping some entrepreneur will start developing a plug and play version soon and sell it for a reasonable cost.
I would be interested by your trick/improvement to make the s18 suspension softer. Do you have any links to share to achieve this on s18 ?
I haven't received my S22 yet but I can already feel some printing coming on :)
Do you know if anybody has milled the sliders out on aluminium yet?
I have heard of people talk about it but haven't seen anyone actually do it yet. I think this design will need some more updates before a final product can go to "market".
Is anyone selling these printed?
Not that I’m aware. You can pay people to print but the results of imperfect sizing will be an issue just like mine.
Thanks for the video. But I mean COME ON!!!!!! REALLY? This is a 3200 dollar machine!!! Aint no way in hell we should have to go through all THAT crap just to have a functioning wheel thst SHOULD work well out the box. My name aint Kingsong and i dont get paid to repair wheels. This is exactly WHY I returned my S22 for a full refund. This wheel is a piece of SH!!@$##@!!! PERIOD. Kingsong sold us a dream. Bearing issues, temperature sensor issues, weirdo noises, control board issues. This wheel is by far the BIGGEST disappointment of wheels this year. Why should I have to revamp the suspension sliders on a 3200 dollar wheel? B.S
I understand your frustration, I'm still enjoying the wheel.
I just bought the S22 - seems to me I did huge mistake . this is a new unit - why do you need to fix new unit ? kingsong MUST find a solution . they took our money - they can't send us printing parts for 150 mile units !! This unit is garbage until fixed .
Sub333😁
Thank you so much for sharing! Superb video. I had a temptation to buy this wheel, but now... Ok, even if suspension will work. There's motor issues, and i think sliders still open, so dust and dirt will collect in there. Fire issues i hope in past already. Metal battery casing, bad for subzero temperatures. And only alternative is Master, that's far from perfect too. So sad. I hope you and your wheel will be fine!
Thanks