From what I've understood about Fordham, he's a very ambitious, impulsive and aggressive man who is very supportive of Ross despite their different demeanor. I felt that he did develop some respect towards John
Unless rdr1 has a sequel it really doesn't matter because he was complicent with Ross while he was threatening John's family. But your analysis is probably right, it would of been cool tho if that guy in the mission with Jack in the epiloque was Ford instead of some random agent
Similar to Javier when the rest were about to open fire on Arthur and John he kept his gun in the air. If rdr1 was as detailed they probably would’ve had the same thing. Even if Archer didn’t want to betray John it’s not up to him to stay behind he works for Ross and the government and if they say to be there during a raid then he HAS to be there or he’s fired and his career is forever tarnished, but that doesn’t mean he has to open fire if he doesn’t want to
@@stickyman3786 Right as the pinkertons fire at the gang Javier is seen pointing his gun at Arthur and John, he had it up at first and then slowly ended up pointing at them
@@Ricardo_Rickwhat paranoia does to someone. Like John would care enough to tell anyone about what Ross did. He only wanted the quiet family life, not to be the man shooting the guy that probably deserved it.
Andrew Milton was the one doing his job. Ross is like Tenpenny except Ross was more egotistical and condescending while Frank was more openly crooked and aggressive. Archer was also quite sour as he was more openly verbally sparring with Marston while Ross was more like “Whatever, F U too.”
Fordham might have been just as responsible as Ross for having john killing dutch, but unlike ross he actually showed some of kind of respect for john, i think the reason why he never showed it to him directly at the presence of ross is that ross might suspect that Fordham is trying to give john a second chance and could write on the report that Fordham is a traitor to the government and could possibly kill him and john.
some people say Ross was doing he's job because what Ross did wasn't heroism it was murder because John wasn't an outlaw anymore if John was still an outlaw I get it and the need to kill John but John wasn't breaking the law bill Dutch and javer these are the one who the should go after there the worst one
@@badreedinedjellali1328To be fair just bc John wasn’t currently an outlaw doesn’t mean he wouldn’t still be wanted, John literally broke out of prison so he’s not just an outlaw but a fugitive as well. However Ross still was corrupt for promising him amnesty and then setting up an entire raid on his ranch where John was the only armed and dangerous one there. If Ross was actually doing his job he would’ve imprisoned John from the start or had him executed as Fordham says “we should’ve had you killed” but Ross intervened and says “but we’re giving you an opportunity” so Ross was always corrupt but at first he was a good kind of corrupt similar to Dave in GTA 5 but then imagine Dave after the main story sends a swat team to Michaels house
Also Ross is actually at ranch during gameplay, during John's last stand if you pan your crosshair to the left you can actually see a blue X,which appears on someone you can't shoot. Thought that was something cool,I don't see a lot of people talk about
@@calangoraivoso9921 No,but trust me I grew up with this game,and It blew my mind when I saw it. I'm telling replay that mission again,or better yet replay the whole game,and you'll see
@@calangoraivoso9921Wish I could, sadly I have to replay till this point the game. I will see how I can do it. If this exists, I will let you. If not then I won’t reply anymore.
If this game had an actual cutscene where Ross looks over at Archer’s dead corpse and just smirks and walks away, we would know that Ross only cares for his pride only
11:39 Edgar Ross does appear there before the cinematic, only he is hidden behind two soldiers, but he does appear. And if you're very lucky you can kill him there, but obviously the sequence will not change and the cinematic of him putting the gun away and lighting a cigar will appear the same.
I personally think and believe that Ross didn’t actually plan to get Fordham killed but he did consider him to be expandable and sent him first when he smells danger.
I know you said that Milton will attack John's ranch like Ross did but I personally don't think he'll do that. Once John is no longer useful to him. He will just leave John alone. Not because he's an honorable man. But because he'll think an attack on John's ranch will just be a waste of government resources.
Milton was a man who followed the law and did his job while using morally questionable but legal tactics I believe he wouldn’t go after John because it doesn’t give any benefit other then personal satisfaction and Milton is the type of person to put job success over personal satisfaction
@@antoniorivera6861 John was no longer an outlaw. He just wanted to farm in peace. He wasn't a big threat anymore.So I don't see why Milton would go after him.
From what I understood about Fordham he was a person that does orders down to a T. What most people forget is that he isn't nice, nor isn't mean, but a person that does his job and doesn't matter how it gets done. But unlike Ross who'll use extremely questionable means, Fordham stays mostly within the confines of the law as how he expressed that John should be in jail or dead, but still worked with him because john was temporarily working for the government. If John wasn't working with them then Fordham would see no use for him and probably would want him out of the way. That's why I can see him being there the day that John died as he had no longer any use for using John and that orders came in wanting them to get rid of him. It can also be played as why he no longer appears afterwards as John most likely shot him just before dying. As Fordham was one of the easiest to point out in the crowd.
@@redvice6210All I want is a simple confirmation by Rockstar of his presence or seeing him alive in the cutscene if John doesn’t shoot him so the discussion could be brought to an official closure. The Army Captain’s model makes more than one appearance in the final mission but seeing him in the cutscene would be a more definitive answer. GeneralKidd used a modded pistol and it killed everyone except Ross so I guess the same rule might as well apply to Fordham respawning after getting killed. Ross’s firing squad must be descendants of the Dothraki and Unsullied from Game of Thrones Season 8.
@@Black-White-BW1Because the Army Captain’s model can appear more than once. Neither of them are able to appear in the cutscene for some reason despite their models being in the firing squad.
Would love to see more of these videos from you about the rd1 and rd2 characters, also I never thought Archer was decent. John tells him where he’s from people don’t move cattle by train yet and archer responds with “but you aren’t from anywhere”. He looked down even on honest people like Bonnie and her dad.
The final duel I had a Mauser pistol and was mowing down as many as I could but I remembered there was one I couldn’t shoot because the crosshair turned blue but didn’t get a good enough look to tell if it was Ross or Fordham though but I saw a video where someone used mods to explosive rounds, EVERYBODY but that agent died so I figured it had to be one or the other but either way it’s safe to assume he was killed in that moment, going by what you said about John targeting the traitors first. Personally I think what happened was he shot Archer, killed two or three more soldiers, tried to get Ross but was gunned down. If Jack wanted revenge he’d go after him too but he didn’t
Isn't it said that Archer's mother died during the robbery of the ferry in Blackwater by Van Der Linde's gang? If she wasn't killed directly by the gang, she could've been killed via collateral damage during the shootout. It's possible that Archer would have some resentment towards the Van Der Linde gang members for directly or indirectly causing his mom to die.
If we ever get red dead redemption 3, I would like to see an encounter with an elderly Fordham where if John died with high honor, fordham would regret his actions and maybe try to push for reforms for the bureau. If John died with low honor, Fordham would contemplate on how a man who has done so many wrong things could still do the right thing by saving his family and probably have the bureau conduct (mostly unethical) studies on the subject
@@mrtsukuba It wouldn’t make sense for Fordham to be there without true confirmation. He could’ve been in the cutscene where John dies but he wasn’t and R* never said themselves that he was there. His character model is most likely just used as a placeholder, same with the Army Captain.
I wonder if the reason Ross killed John at the end was to prevent John from speaking up, i mean, all that mattered to Ross was his career, so if people learned he used such dirty tactics to achieve his goals this could tarnish his image, that's also the reason he doesn't go after the rest of John's family, because while they might now some things they don't know a lot and would have no means of speaking up
I don’t think preventing a convicted gang member on a parole contract from being with their family is considered illegal or a human rights violation. Would John rather go back to prison and die over being prohibited from seeing his family? It was either him doing his required task and supposedly reunite with his family or go to prison and face execution.
@@lukeskinwalker922 no, but everyone thinks Ross did what he did by himself, if people learned that he was just sitting in a chair and making a convict do all the work while taking his famili hostage things might go bad in his public image, i mean, he wouldn't be arrested but still it would be a stain in his career
Bro... I feel like CJ when cesar tells him about Ryder deserving his death. I always thought that Archer was at least more decent than Ross, well, thanks for the clarification professional
Had Fordham been in charge of threatening John Marston with his family being kept hostaged; with the task of John to kill his former partners in crime, I’m sure that at least he would’ve left John and the family alone. Not delayed his demise. At least Jack could’ve been living a much simpler life. Even a better life than his parents would have. At least John would grow old with Abigail and the Marston family lives happily. Including Uncle lumbago.
I believe that Fordham did grow respect for john throughout the game coming as aggersive at first but as time went on, Archer saw Marston in some what of a better light but at the end of the day Fordham was only following orders as if he refused to go to the assault on beechers hope he would've seen as a coward and a traitor and could've been writien up for it losing his job. While Ross took it to far and somewhat enjoyed toying with John's temper as he knew that if John assaulted him John would be arrested or beaten, I also believe that he did this with many other criminals turned informant just to make the criminals pay more and for his own pleasure
One thing that puzzles me is the whole “credit” issue that revolves around Ross betraying Fordham with the intent of having him killed during Beecher’s Hope’s attack. Ross had many other people who could have yearned for the credit of killing John Marston and Dutch Van Der Linde. These people being the US military soldiers who participated in the attacks. There’s no indication that Ross would have try to kill them too. Additionally, Ross couldn’t have known that John, surrounded by dozens of men armed to the teeth, would spot Archer and kill him. Also it was very much in Archer’s nature to be in the front lines. He was always headstrong and impulsive as well as did not play any mind games. Additionally what about Ross himself? Was he planning to kill John from the beginning to steal the credit off of him despite John being blackmailed or was he ordered to kill John?
I feel happy for the Red Dead Wiki. Those guys put a lot of effort into archiving and discussing factual information... too much effort at times though (speaking from experience).
The captain has to follow the orders of Ross he and his company is loaned out to him via the government orders if he refuses rosses order he could be put on trail
Take it from me a currently serving member in the military. When you get orders to do something (legal orders and within reason) you have to carry out those orders for the sake of your career and possibly freedom. If you won't do it someone else will because everyone is replaceable.
@@ACE_1923 At most I think the captain could have been demoted or fired the whole deal John had with Ross seems like an corrupt off the books operation.
@@planderlinde1969 Yeah I never saw or heard the mention of any pardon for John the only thing John got after killing Dutch was a nonchalant *yeah exactly* from Ross also I’m not sure if rejecting the orders would have gotten the captain any punishment because Ross would have to file a report to D.C if it was off the books D.C would start asking questions on why was the military involved in the first place Ross would have to come clean about van der lande Williamson and esqualla the government throws a hissifit about a potential conflict with Mexico if it was discovered an American illegal detained a Mexican citizen Ross potentially earns a demotion and mark on his permanent record blah blah blah so maybe the captain could have refused the order and Ross would be forced to leave John alone but I think the captain didn’t care otherwise he was just a soldier fallowing orders and didn’t want to put his career in the line for John
I remember a theory back when Arthur was revealed some thought the agent in the blue suit next to Ross was Arthur. Supported by at the time the only ss we had of Arthur he was always in blue and the hat the agent wore could’ve been a low rendered hat Arthur always wore. Obviously wasn’t the case but, for awhile I played as that same ped online in rdr1 and compared to the ss because maybe John thought Arthur was dead until he saw him outside the barn.
Something I wish Red Dead Redemption did with the last news paper when you’re Jack. Similar to how honor works in Red Dead Redemption 2. If John was good then the public would condemn and scrutinize the FBI and Edgar Ross actions for attacking John ranch and for killing him. If John was neutral then the public wouldn’t have an opinion on it. If John was evil then the public would be glad that Edgar Ross took out a dangerous menace of an outlaw and the public would probably have more trust into the government.
I would like you to work on an RDR 2 lore video like you promised with the Dutch video you made a while back. Please and thank you and keep doing what you’re doing
Dutch never went insane people didn't have enough faith all they needed was to make a lot of noise,one last big score,no traitors,lotsa money,a safe passage to a boat,some land,mangoes and tropical skirts for TAHITI
for the people who don't know in 1907 after micah's death, Ross and Archer were tasked with finding the killer, they traveled and interviewed citizens until they found the Marston family ranch, where they spied John and got convinced he was the killer, that's why John worked for the government in rdr1
I love how Fordham laughed at Ross’s racist ignorance. Maybe it was just a voice crack, but it almost sounds to me like a choked chuckle, like what he wanted to say was “he’s our informant, so you tell me.”
That was another marshal, Archer respected John for trying to change and keeping up his end of the bargain. He probably cut ties with Ross for doing this. EDIT: Nvm, it was shown that he was there in that case. I guess it was follow orders or lose your career. Ross got what was coming.
@TheProfessional what are you playing the game on?? Xbox, PS, emulator on PC? It looks so buttery smooth and more detailed than I recall. If it is an emulator, can you say which one you use?
I think the reason why John Marston was ambushed and killed when he walked out of the barn, is because of the old crimes that he did in the past because he used to be in Dutch’s gang
hey guys, uh quick question, Im a bit out of the loop and started to play GTA:O again, legit, lvl 241 ATM so my question, why cant you buy Vests en Masse anymore, when I was playing you could Stack 10 of every kind up and I still have some in the inventory but cant bulk up anymore, did they remove that or what?
Oh wow I never knew he was there for years but I still will make my statement of I actually want to see Jack Maybe if he was a main character in Red dead redemption three and he encounters archer. And we get to know his reasoning of why he wanted to or if he didn’t want to
He shows respect towards him but like come on, he is still gonna follow Ross, if the situation were reversed then John would also join a mission that involved Archers death.
I mean all I see Jack hit list meaning if rockstar comes back to this Jack will have his hands full we’re as finding out or searching for who’s is involve
He was not there, but he was definitely involved. This was a joint operation between Blackwater PD, military and FBI. As archer himself, he’s portrayed, seemingly as Edgar’s right hand man so there’s no way he was unaware that this was gonna happen. By him not being there that doesn’t say much in the end of the day Edgar is his boss he needs to do what he says. Or potentially he might find himself out of a job. So his own personal view on John and this whole assault is not really relevant to the discussion. Considering it’s not up to him what he chose to do (assuming he actually cares about keeping his job or rank, and not potentially being “blacklisted” by law-enforcement). However, this whole thing about Archer not wanting to be involved but having not much choice could be a good angle to explore If they do a jack story. With archer being the one in charge of leading the investigation, and trying to find Jack for killing Edgar. Maybe he will be the one offers him a genuine deal. And by doing so archer symbolically redeemed the idea of fairness in law-enforcement in general.
John is stupid he could have just left America after arthur dies in the end of rdr 2 he had the money from the train heist,the BOI Was a newly founded organization and they wouldn't have enough money and resources to track him down and they also had other problems if John left america and started working an honest job , keeping his head and not getting into trouble it would all have been OK look at what Charles,Sadie and the other members that lived did,the BOI Would have caught Dutch,Bill and Javier anyway without John's help and Ross still would have gotten his fame and medals.They didn't even know who John was until he went to kill Micah.
From what I've understood about Fordham, he's a very ambitious, impulsive and aggressive man who is very supportive of Ross despite their different demeanor. I felt that he did develop some respect towards John
Unless rdr1 has a sequel it really doesn't matter because he was complicent with Ross while he was threatening John's family. But your analysis is probably right, it would of been cool tho if that guy in the mission with Jack in the epiloque was Ford instead of some random agent
@@vormorg3312 It already had a sequel
@@TheWeekndFan2011 rdr2 was a prequel
Oh ok I get them mixed up sometimes @@vormorg3312
A detail to point out is that if you don't kill Archer he actually doesn't shoot his rifle with the firing squad.
Interesting
Similar to Javier when the rest were about to open fire on Arthur and John he kept his gun in the air. If rdr1 was as detailed they probably would’ve had the same thing. Even if Archer didn’t want to betray John it’s not up to him to stay behind he works for Ross and the government and if they say to be there during a raid then he HAS to be there or he’s fired and his career is forever tarnished, but that doesn’t mean he has to open fire if he doesn’t want to
Ross liked his job a little too much.
@@josephstalin2606wdym javier pointed his gun down slowly at them
@@stickyman3786 Right as the pinkertons fire at the gang Javier is seen pointing his gun at Arthur and John, he had it up at first and then slowly ended up pointing at them
People say Edgar Ross was just doing his job, but that is more accurate with Archer Fordham.
Ross was erasing the evidence, my bet is that he was afraid John might tell someone about what Ross made him do and tarnish his reputation
@@Ricardo_Rickthat’s freaking true.
@@Ricardo_Rickwhat paranoia does to someone.
Like John would care enough to tell anyone about what Ross did. He only wanted the quiet family life, not to be the man shooting the guy that probably deserved it.
@@channel45853 yeah, i guess Ross just didn't want to take any chances
Andrew Milton was the one doing his job. Ross is like Tenpenny except Ross was more egotistical and condescending while Frank was more openly crooked and aggressive. Archer was also quite sour as he was more openly verbally sparring with Marston while Ross was more like “Whatever, F U too.”
Fordham might have been just as responsible as Ross for having john killing dutch, but unlike ross he actually showed some of kind of respect for john, i think the reason why he never showed it to him directly at the presence of ross is that ross might suspect that Fordham is trying to give john a second chance and could write on the report that Fordham is a traitor to the government and could possibly kill him and john.
A sympathizer bureau agent. That’s what Fordham didn’t wanted to appear as under Ross’ watch.
some people say Ross was doing he's job because what Ross did wasn't heroism it was murder because John wasn't an outlaw anymore if John was still an outlaw I get it and the need to kill John but John wasn't breaking the law bill Dutch and javer these are the one who the should go after there the worst one
@@badreedinedjellali1328Arthur said it: they're not the forgiving type. Or something like that, when he was captured by O'Driscoll's boys
@badreedinedjellali1328 Ross wasn't doing his Job he was corrupt asf but Milton and Fordham were fair and justified Agents
@@badreedinedjellali1328To be fair just bc John wasn’t currently an outlaw doesn’t mean he wouldn’t still be wanted, John literally broke out of prison so he’s not just an outlaw but a fugitive as well. However Ross still was corrupt for promising him amnesty and then setting up an entire raid on his ranch where John was the only armed and dangerous one there. If Ross was actually doing his job he would’ve imprisoned John from the start or had him executed as Fordham says “we should’ve had you killed” but Ross intervened and says “but we’re giving you an opportunity” so Ross was always corrupt but at first he was a good kind of corrupt similar to Dave in GTA 5 but then imagine Dave after the main story sends a swat team to Michaels house
Also Ross is actually at ranch during gameplay, during John's last stand if you pan your crosshair to the left you can actually see a blue X,which appears on someone you can't shoot. Thought that was something cool,I don't see a lot of people talk about
You’re right. Ross was there as well and storywise he might even got a shot at John.
Do you have footage of this?
@@calangoraivoso9921 No,but trust me I grew up with this game,and It blew my mind when I saw it. I'm telling replay that mission again,or better yet replay the whole game,and you'll see
@@calangoraivoso9921Wish I could, sadly I have to replay till this point the game. I will see how I can do it. If this exists, I will let you. If not then I won’t reply anymore.
@@akiluro2981you can replay missions if you’ve got a save file after this mission you can go to the pause menu and go to stats then missions
If this game had an actual cutscene where Ross looks over at Archer’s dead corpse and just smirks and walks away, we would know that Ross only cares for his pride only
That would have been cool
11:39 Edgar Ross does appear there before the cinematic, only he is hidden behind two soldiers, but he does appear. And if you're very lucky you can kill him there, but obviously the sequence will not change and the cinematic of him putting the gun away and lighting a cigar will appear the same.
He may not have wanted to betray John but he did indeed follow orders from Ross
I personally think and believe that Ross didn’t actually plan to get Fordham killed but he did consider him to be expandable and sent him first when he smells danger.
I know you said that Milton will attack John's ranch like Ross did but I personally don't think he'll do that. Once John is no longer useful to him. He will just leave John alone. Not because he's an honorable man. But because he'll think an attack on John's ranch will just be a waste of government resources.
no
Milton hated outlaws he cared nothing about government resources especially considering he wasn’t using them, he would’ve went after John 100%
Milton was a man who followed the law and did his job while using morally questionable but legal tactics I believe he wouldn’t go after John because it doesn’t give any benefit other then personal satisfaction and Milton is the type of person to put job success over personal satisfaction
@@antoniorivera6861 John was no longer an outlaw. He just wanted to farm in peace. He wasn't a big threat anymore.So I don't see why Milton would go after him.
@@jimmydraper6069John IS an outlaw. Starting a ranch doesn’t change that.
Glad you talked about this guy. He was nicer than most
Fordham= American Conroy Wu in Sleeping Dogs both were loyal and didn't trust Wei and John but later on grew to respect John and Wei
From what I understood about Fordham he was a person that does orders down to a T. What most people forget is that he isn't nice, nor isn't mean, but a person that does his job and doesn't matter how it gets done. But unlike Ross who'll use extremely questionable means, Fordham stays mostly within the confines of the law as how he expressed that John should be in jail or dead, but still worked with him because john was temporarily working for the government. If John wasn't working with them then Fordham would see no use for him and probably would want him out of the way.
That's why I can see him being there the day that John died as he had no longer any use for using John and that orders came in wanting them to get rid of him. It can also be played as why he no longer appears afterwards as John most likely shot him just before dying. As Fordham was one of the easiest to point out in the crowd.
I think Archer was even a gun state. I think he wanted to leave John alone with his family.
Even a gun state?
@@lukeskinwalker922when he was pointing his gun lol
This is a really interesting topic, because I always heard about him getting to respect John and don't wanting to betray John
His character model appearing is not enough proof by itself to me.
@@lukeskinwalker922Why not?
@@lukeskinwalker922what would be enough proof besides him literally being there?
@@redvice6210All I want is a simple confirmation by Rockstar of his presence or seeing him alive in the cutscene if John doesn’t shoot him so the discussion could be brought to an official closure. The Army Captain’s model makes more than one appearance in the final mission but seeing him in the cutscene would be a more definitive answer. GeneralKidd used a modded pistol and it killed everyone except Ross so I guess the same rule might as well apply to Fordham respawning after getting killed. Ross’s firing squad must be descendants of the Dothraki and Unsullied from Game of Thrones Season 8.
@@Black-White-BW1Because the Army Captain’s model can appear more than once. Neither of them are able to appear in the cutscene for some reason despite their models being in the firing squad.
Would love to see more of these videos from you about the rd1 and rd2 characters, also I never thought Archer was decent.
John tells him where he’s from people don’t move cattle by train yet and archer responds with “but you aren’t from anywhere”.
He looked down even on honest people like Bonnie and her dad.
The final duel I had a Mauser pistol and was mowing down as many as I could but I remembered there was one I couldn’t shoot because the crosshair turned blue but didn’t get a good enough look to tell if it was Ross or Fordham though but I saw a video where someone used mods to explosive rounds, EVERYBODY but that agent died so I figured it had to be one or the other but either way it’s safe to assume he was killed in that moment, going by what you said about John targeting the traitors first. Personally I think what happened was he shot Archer, killed two or three more soldiers, tried to get Ross but was gunned down. If Jack wanted revenge he’d go after him too but he didn’t
Isn't it said that Archer's mother died during the robbery of the ferry in Blackwater by Van Der Linde's gang? If she wasn't killed directly by the gang, she could've been killed via collateral damage during the shootout. It's possible that Archer would have some resentment towards the Van Der Linde gang members for directly or indirectly causing his mom to die.
Nah the gravestone says July 24th 1900, the Blackwater Robbery was around May 1899
@@zxnnikit’s heavily implied she died of her wounds, based on a cut piece of dialogue
Hopefully your next lore video in Red Dead is a town similar to Annesburg which I truly enjoyed.
If we ever get red dead redemption 3, I would like to see an encounter with an elderly Fordham where if John died with high honor, fordham would regret his actions and maybe try to push for reforms for the bureau. If John died with low honor, Fordham would contemplate on how a man who has done so many wrong things could still do the right thing by saving his family and probably have the bureau conduct (mostly unethical) studies on the subject
Fordham is the first man John aims against, and can be killed once you shoot him. He's dead.
@@hibusakawa Fordham can't be killed though
@@mrtsukuba he was killed in this video.
As pro said Archer is most probably canon wise dead at Beecher's hope itself before John died
@@mrtsukuba It wouldn’t make sense for Fordham to be there without true confirmation. He could’ve been in the cutscene where John dies but he wasn’t and R* never said themselves that he was there. His character model is most likely just used as a placeholder, same with the Army Captain.
Nice lore video. Never really thought about this from rdr till now. Thanks! ❤
I wonder if the reason Ross killed John at the end was to prevent John from speaking up, i mean, all that mattered to Ross was his career, so if people learned he used such dirty tactics to achieve his goals this could tarnish his image, that's also the reason he doesn't go after the rest of John's family, because while they might now some things they don't know a lot and would have no means of speaking up
I don’t think preventing a convicted gang member on a parole contract from being with their family is considered illegal or a human rights violation. Would John rather go back to prison and die over being prohibited from seeing his family? It was either him doing his required task and supposedly reunite with his family or go to prison and face execution.
@@lukeskinwalker922 no, but everyone thinks Ross did what he did by himself, if people learned that he was just sitting in a chair and making a convict do all the work while taking his famili hostage things might go bad in his public image, i mean, he wouldn't be arrested but still it would be a stain in his career
The Pinkertons were trying to tame the Wild West. They needed people to have believe in their government, not some gunslinger. It’s all about ego
My man your are the best rockstar youtuber in my opinion no clickbait shit content no promo or ads shit you go straight to the point.
I actually totally forgot about Archer until I saw this video.
In the remake they could expand archer's character. Because you know, they're doing a remake right? Right?
It was never a remake or remaster just a port for newer consoles ps4 5
@@luchi02luchi02 Red Dead Redemption is one of those games who absolutely do not need a remake and remake will tarnish it's reputation.
Funny troll message. We could only wish that would happen.
@@beingadeeb2345They have already remade much of the first game in the prequel. I think they might as well have finished the job.
@@beingadeeb2345what? why will the remake destroy its reputation
Bro... I feel like CJ when cesar tells him about Ryder deserving his death.
I always thought that Archer was at least more decent than Ross, well, thanks for the clarification professional
Archer Fordham should have never been Partners with Ross, he became a Lifeless scapegoat in the end unfortunately.
Had Fordham been in charge of threatening John Marston with his family being kept hostaged; with the task of John to kill his former partners in crime, I’m sure that at least he would’ve left John and the family alone. Not delayed his demise. At least Jack could’ve been living a much simpler life. Even a better life than his parents would have. At least John would grow old with Abigail and the Marston family lives happily. Including Uncle lumbago.
I believe that Fordham did grow respect for john throughout the game coming as aggersive at first but as time went on, Archer saw Marston in some what of a better light but at the end of the day Fordham was only following orders as if he refused to go to the assault on beechers hope he would've seen as a coward and a traitor and could've been writien up for it losing his job. While Ross took it to far and somewhat enjoyed toying with John's temper as he knew that if John assaulted him John would be arrested or beaten, I also believe that he did this with many other criminals turned informant just to make the criminals pay more and for his own pleasure
One thing that puzzles me is the whole “credit” issue that revolves around Ross betraying Fordham with the intent of having him killed during Beecher’s Hope’s attack. Ross had many other people who could have yearned for the credit of killing John Marston and Dutch Van Der Linde. These people being the US military soldiers who participated in the attacks. There’s no indication that Ross would have try to kill them too. Additionally, Ross couldn’t have known that John, surrounded by dozens of men armed to the teeth, would spot Archer and kill him. Also it was very much in Archer’s nature to be in the front lines. He was always headstrong and impulsive as well as did not play any mind games. Additionally what about Ross himself? Was he planning to kill John from the beginning to steal the credit off of him despite John being blackmailed or was he ordered to kill John?
I feel happy for the Red Dead Wiki. Those guys put a lot of effort into archiving and discussing factual information... too much effort at times though (speaking from experience).
That's us Kid Colt! That's us!!
@@Helvigster Inferior editor.
@@KC.45And MUC Wiki.
4:43 that shut your mouth was personal
I also find it weird how the captain betrays John as well
He does?
The captain has to follow the orders of Ross he and his company is loaned out to him via the government orders if he refuses rosses order he could be put on trail
Take it from me a currently serving member in the military. When you get orders to do something (legal orders and within reason) you have to carry out those orders for the sake of your career and possibly freedom. If you won't do it someone else will because everyone is replaceable.
@@ACE_1923 At most I think the captain could have been demoted or fired the whole deal John had with Ross seems like an corrupt off the books operation.
@@planderlinde1969 Yeah I never saw or heard the mention of any pardon for John the only thing John got after killing Dutch was a nonchalant *yeah exactly* from Ross also I’m not sure if rejecting the orders would have gotten the captain any punishment because Ross would have to file a report to D.C if it was off the books D.C would start asking questions on why was the military involved in the first place Ross would have to come clean about van der lande Williamson and esqualla the government throws a hissifit about a potential conflict with Mexico if it was discovered an American illegal detained a Mexican citizen Ross potentially earns a demotion and mark on his permanent record blah blah blah so maybe the captain could have refused the order and Ross would be forced to leave John alone but I think the captain didn’t care otherwise he was just a soldier fallowing orders and didn’t want to put his career in the line for John
Hope you make more red dead redemption lore videos
I love your lore videos so much
I beat this game once but never thought about this character at all good to see you explaining him
professional literally the goat
Waiting for the video lore of the Liberty City mafias and the Pegorino´s crew
I remember a theory back when Arthur was revealed some thought the agent in the blue suit next to Ross was Arthur. Supported by at the time the only ss we had of Arthur he was always in blue and the hat the agent wore could’ve been a low rendered hat Arthur always wore. Obviously wasn’t the case but, for awhile I played as that same ped online in rdr1 and compared to the ss because maybe John thought Arthur was dead until he saw him outside the barn.
Something I wish Red Dead Redemption did with the last news paper when you’re Jack. Similar to how honor works in Red Dead Redemption 2. If John was good then the public would condemn and scrutinize the FBI and Edgar Ross actions for attacking John ranch and for killing him. If John was neutral then the public wouldn’t have an opinion on it. If John was evil then the public would be glad that Edgar Ross took out a dangerous menace of an outlaw and the public would probably have more trust into the government.
Great Lore Video 👍 👍 👍
I was going to get 8 hours of sleep but plans have changes😂
Great analysts.Can you make a lore video on the Blackwater Fairy Heist Next
Now that is worthy of a request.
Love this video!
Please make more
Yay another lore video (these are my favorite I hope no more get copyright striked)
Maybe I Nelson Mandela’d myself into thinking this but I could have swore that the Agent that told Jack where he could find Ross was Fordham.
"Good Soldiers Follow Orders"
I would like you to work on an RDR 2 lore video like you promised with the Dutch video you made a while back. Please and thank you and keep doing what you’re doing
Archer is still alot better than Agent Milton and Edgar Ross
I hated Fordham more than Milton. Fordham just has a sour personality and he’s more openly aggressive while Ross is more condescending.
@@lukeskinwalker922glad I’m not the only one who thinks that. Guy is an absolute toady.
Only now I see the glaring similarities between Edgar Ross and inspector campbell from Peaky blinders. I say it might have dven been inspired
2:22 now thats a rare word to hear in red dead
Germany says it a lot.
You fucking cheat
i always saw fordham as a less radical Ross. He wasn’t as outright malicious as his boss, but he definitely never respected or cared about Marston.
Hopefully this one doesn't get demonetized or age restricted for no reason.
I like to think archer and ross fell out after he didn't agree on killing john since he respected him
I have been waiting for some Red Dead Redemption lore
I like how Fordham is just stoic 😂
I’m still believing he wasn’t there personally. I never saw him at the farm in any playthrough. And I’ll believe is he was he didn’t fire a shot.
Dutch never went insane people didn't have enough faith all they needed was to make a lot of noise,one last big score,no traitors,lotsa money,a safe passage to a boat,some land,mangoes and tropical skirts for TAHITI
I dont remember him being there. In my playthroughs however it has been close to a decade since i played.
also I believe Archer makes a cameo at the end of RDR2
for the people who don't know in 1907 after micah's death, Ross and Archer were tasked with finding the killer, they traveled and interviewed citizens until they found the Marston family ranch, where they spied John and got convinced he was the killer, that's why John worked for the government in rdr1
I personally believe that if Jack didn't kill Ross, Archer would do it sooner or later
He does
Fuck yeah! More Red dead 1 lore please. This game is one of the best.
Now I think the bigger question is that whether he is alive or not in the prolong
I figured that Archer wasn't appeared in 1914
I love how Fordham laughed at Ross’s racist ignorance. Maybe it was just a voice crack, but it almost sounds to me like a choked chuckle, like what he wanted to say was “he’s our informant, so you tell me.”
Honey, wake up! A new Professional Video Dropped for RDR!
Archer has one of my favourite outfits from the series..
Archer seemed to have some honor and seemed to respect john by the end. But he also wouldnt stand in the way of ross
That was another marshal, Archer respected John for trying to change and keeping up his end of the bargain. He probably cut ties with Ross for doing this.
EDIT: Nvm, it was shown that he was there in that case. I guess it was follow orders or lose your career. Ross got what was coming.
Of course he's there. He's a Fed.
I feel like Archer was just trying to do his job while Ross was pure evil
Hey are u making a lore vedio on micah? U said u would in the dutch vedio
@TheProfessional what are you playing the game on?? Xbox, PS, emulator on PC? It looks so buttery smooth and more detailed than I recall. If it is an emulator, can you say which one you use?
It’s the ps5 version. Rockstar patched it with 60fps. It’s the only console that has 60fps upgrade
Are you doing a Halloween livestream
I asked for your opinion and you gave it to us thank you
How did you get your pistol in the scene where Edgar Ross kills him
Arthur is better than John
Arthur:Is a good boah
John:Can't herd,can't swim
I think he was there but forced by Ross
I think the reason why John Marston was ambushed and killed when he walked out of the barn, is because of the old crimes that he did in the past because he used to be in Dutch’s gang
hey guys, uh quick question, Im a bit out of the loop and started to play GTA:O again, legit, lvl 241 ATM so my question, why cant you buy Vests en Masse anymore, when I was playing you could Stack 10 of every kind up and I still have some in the inventory but cant bulk up anymore, did they remove that or what?
You didn’t do ep of undead nightmare.
Oh wow I never knew he was there for years but I still will make my statement of I actually want to see Jack Maybe if he was a main character in Red dead redemption three and he encounters archer. And we get to know his reasoning of why he wanted to or if he didn’t want to
That’s what my question always was but I do not think archer betrays John but I could be wrong
He shows respect towards him but like come on, he is still gonna follow Ross, if the situation were reversed then John would also join a mission that involved Archers death.
I mean all I see Jack hit list meaning if rockstar comes back to this Jack will have his hands full we’re as finding out or searching for who’s is involve
The best vids
When is the what happened to every character after red dead redemption?
Love ❤️ your videos
I am stalking u 😂
@@herrforesight-Satanisking why
@@Ace-cr9qt IDK
@@herrforesight-Satanisking bro then you can’t
@@Ace-cr9qt I will always
I always knew Fordham was there
He was not there, but he was definitely involved. This was a joint operation between Blackwater PD, military and FBI.
As archer himself, he’s portrayed, seemingly as Edgar’s right hand man so there’s no way he was unaware that this was gonna happen. By him not being there that doesn’t say much in the end of the day Edgar is his boss he needs to do what he says. Or potentially he might find himself out of a job. So his own personal view on John and this whole assault is not really relevant to the discussion. Considering it’s not up to him what he chose to do (assuming he actually cares about keeping his job or rank, and not potentially being “blacklisted” by law-enforcement).
However, this whole thing about Archer not wanting to be involved but having not much choice could be a good angle to explore If they do a jack story. With archer being the one in charge of leading the investigation, and trying to find Jack for killing Edgar. Maybe he will be the one offers him a genuine deal. And by doing so archer symbolically redeemed the idea of fairness in law-enforcement in general.
Even he was there he would be forced to go there by agent ross
Gameplay and story segregation but Ross was there as well when they shot John and he might even took a shot at John as well.
anyone dressing up as rdr characters tomorrow?
Its not The fordhams model. Why wouldnt they use The real model If he is supposed to Be there? So i say canonically fordham was not there
Can you make an explaination why we cant see ross in the cutscene where john dies
I explained that . Because he’s a coward and he wanted archer and everyone else to die so he can get credit
You can see Ross when you open fire but he’s hiding behind soldiers and can’t be killed.
Ooooh I see, i see thanks
and Claude killed Maria in gta 3
Pro can you do a sopranos lore?
Will you ever do The Mafia Series?
He already did 1 and 2, but will do all three again sometime
@@_.Ghost. yes you're right I’m sorry I meant will he do a lore video for them
@@kitoriangelo ahh, I'm pretty sure he said he would after he replays em
Damn pigs, poor john.
What happens if you don't kill him? Does it say what happens if you survived?
nah nothing in the papers or anything, just ross’ retirement. that would’ve made this debate easier to settle
Red dead Redemption one needs a remake
Not betrayal. More like tying up loose ends
John is stupid he could have just left America after arthur dies in the end of rdr 2 he had the money from the train heist,the BOI Was a newly founded organization and they wouldn't have enough money and resources to track him down and they also had other problems if John left america and started working an honest job , keeping his head and not getting into trouble it would all have been OK look at what Charles,Sadie and the other members that lived did,the BOI Would have caught Dutch,Bill and Javier anyway without John's help and Ross still would have gotten his fame and medals.They didn't even know who John was until he went to kill Micah.