They shouldn't have got rid of "Anybody have a Map", because it introduces us to the dysfunctional Murphys, and "Good for You" actually showed Evan receiving comeuppance for his actions.
I think what this movie got wrong is that in the play, Evan is kind of the villain as well as the protagonist. A sympathetic villain, but a villain nonetheless. The movie cut out most of the character songs of the parents. The real heroes of the play are the two moms, they have the opening song and the biggest emotional range in the show.
Yeah like I feel many thought would make it more realistic an give him more real consequences than just people mad/hate you cause he forged fake emails and made up this whole story about his bully that committed suicide to get in with the younger sister he likes an kinda obsessed with [knowing things she was every surprised to think her own family/brother would know like her doing crosswords on back of cereal box]
True, true. I mean, for me (who relied on the tracks to know the story because I’m thousands of miles away from where the show is being staged and performed) the thing that made me really connect with the musical we’re the parents POVs because it helped me process my complicated relationship with my parents. [And to some degree, also related to Connor. At least this one fanon version of him from the only DEH fic I ever read. Because I had a mood disorder that resulted in a lot of very angry outbursts, and I just connected with Connor more than I ever did Evan.]
They also cut Anybody Have a Map?, one of the shortest musical numbers that also manages to perfectly encapsulate each character before we spend any real time with them. I'll never understand that choice.
I think Heathers somehow ended up having a healthier message about suicide than Dear Evan Hansen by saying no matter what, nobody (especially not teenagers) deserves to die for the dumb shit they do when they're growing up and too scared to admit how broken they are.
Even Conner was a terrible person that abused his sister and others around him but we’re supposed to feel for him because he killed himself. I personally don’t care if an asshole is suicidal. The sister is the only good character.
@@witchplease9695 Well, in the movie Zoe is a good character, but in the musical, she's not a great person, either. Also, it's unclear whether or not Connor was *actually* a bad person, since we only get to know him from Zoe's point of view.
I was never really comfortable with the storyline. Evan basically lies to a grieving family for his own personal gain, and only feels guilty because they start getting Internet hate. And afterwards, he doesn't really receive any reprucussions.
Yeah....also can't get 9ver how creepy it is he uses Conners death to try slid in to "be there for her" when his real end game was to date the little sister. Like ...geeze.....maybe he would have been friend if weren't so creepy. Like how he know she did puzzles on back cereal unless watches her in morning???
I have some friends that love theater, like Hamilton and stuff like that. But when they told me about the plot for this one, I could feel myself getting progressively more uncomfortable the more I thought about it.
@@owenmaleski2203 I also had some friends really into theatre who explained the plot to me and kept saying "But when you explain the bare bones of the musical it sounds really bad but it's actually super heart warming and wholesome!" Nah, the lead character's actions are just really bad.
I thought the play was extremely realistic. A grieving family is desperately trying to find a reason why their son killed themselves. They search for a formal letter Evan wrote himself was all they found. As a man woth severe anxiety and depression, I thought it was a realistic response to avoid causing that family more pain and suffering. Hell, I would probably do the same if in that situation. Edit: I also think because it was so realistic that it's hard for us to connect to it. We feel betrayed as we can see ourselves fall victim to it.
I liked this musical when I was a teenager and when it came out, but always saw it as a cautionary tale of living in a lie and living a life that is not yours. It was always weird to me when people saw Evan as sympathetic and as a victim.
Precisely, the storyline always unsettled me somewhat. Evan lies to and exploits a grieving family for his own personal gain, and doesn't confess until they start getting heckled online. And even afterwards, he doesn't really suffer any lasting consequences, bar not getting Zoe, or into college.
I think he starts out sympathetic because you can understand how someone would believe that continuing this lie could make the parents of a dead child happy and the charity work it leads too. It isn't until the second act of the musical that the alarm bells went for me- taking Conner's college money as if you deserve an award and trying to be romantically involved with a girl based on lies?? Eww. Also "For Forever" is a great song but in hindsight it comes off gross when you realise that this is when the seed is plated in Evan's mind that he could do this to make himself feel better, not making the family's well-being a priority (which is likely the intention of the song but I don't think they realise the true extent of how villainous it comes off as upon rewatch). I agree with Amanda that the original ending is way worse because it doesn't feel like Evan had to face his actions or work to fix them as much.
I mean you can see him as sympathetic and in the wrong I don't know why he has to be either or Relating to people doing bad things scares people too much
It is a cautionary tale, and Evan is someone I can sympathize with while at the same time understanding that what he did was wrong. He didn't do anything out of malice, but even so his actions caused a lot of hurt to those around him, and even to his own mental health. Ultimately, the character is a teenager and what we want is for teens to learn from their mistakes rather than villinize them forever. It is implied he faced the consequences of his actions "off-screen" in the musical, and I think it's because the aim of the creators of the show was one of compassion and understanding.
I think it’s funny that Ben Platt defended his casting by saying the movie wouldn’t have happened without him, and the majority of the negative reception this movie got was because of him.
Like, I feel you can defend it only so hard until you remember that his dad is literally the president of production for Universal. So maybe he could've curbed some of that defensiveness, lol
"fans of the musical might be happy that ben is reprising the role" nope, in fact i would say we are the most disappointed ones because we've gotten to see so many different Evans in the broadway production that would have deserved the role just as much if not more. This is not an attack towards Ben, but he does look out of place in a highschool setting and it takes a lot of people away from the movie when he interacts with other characters.
@@juanitaparpandacute3511 tbh Jordan Fischer would also be too old for the role. Andrew Barth Feldman would have been perfect because he’s still an actual teen
YES!! his response was so out of touch and entitled. it was so dismissive of every other actor who played evan (his own boyfriend included), and the rest of the OBC
Why did this fail? 1. Obviously, thinking a 27 years old passing for a teenager worked on stage so it can work for a movie. 2. Removing the songs that actually showed Evan in the wrong. 3. Off that, falling for the "misaimed fandom" that Evan is a nice guy helping the family with this scheme" rather than how bad it is. 4. Another case of a show that works finer on the stage but falters as an actual film.
Precisely. They should have cast one of the younger show Evans, namely Andrew Barth Feldman, in the movie. While Ben was wonderful in the role on stage, the make up and hair choices make him look more 37 than 27!
@@trinaq After I saw the trailer I continuously thought "oh god, I really hope they do a better job de-aging him in the final movie", knowing that THAT was their attempt... that's almost as bad as the initial Sonic design from the Sonic the Hedgehog movie that came out last year. What a big Yikes. To ALSO hear they cut out incredibly pivotal songs just makes me sad.
I totally agree they made him look older if anything. For me that is the main reason I never wanted to see this. The singing in the trailer made me cry though very beautiful
i'm gonna be honest i think they tried to show evan in a more positive light because they didn't realize how insane he was in the original musical and instead of steering into having a villain protagonist they went "shit let's backpeddle a little on this guy" which obviously does not work because there's no rewriting of his character, just extra shit
I think the fact that Ben Platt looks so old plays a big part in not being able to root for Evan. In the musical, Evan's actions still aren't excusable, but they can be downplayed because he's young. But when he looks like a 30-year-old, that doesn't work.
Exactly, you can get away with casting older actors on stage, but in film, with close ups, and the make up and hair choices, this makes Evan look older than he really is.
This! Plus, you throw in a Zoe who looks like she could actually be a teenager and you have an adult man taking advantage of a family's grief to get with their teenage daughter.
Can we talk about how Evan "My Social Anxiety is So Bad I Can't Even Order a Pizza for Myself" Hansen is able to create a false, intricate narrative ON THE SPOT in order to appease the Murphys? There's suspension of disbelief; then there's this.
To be honest, it isn't that unbelievable. He doesn't want to disappoint them. People with social anxiety will go to insane lengths just to avoid the source of their anxiety; I should know, I have it.
@@Tay-ge2gf I've struggled with social anxiety in the past, but what I mean to highlight here is the bad writing. I haven't seen the movie, but what stuck out to me in the stage show was that Evan was comedically incompetent -- he felt more like a caricature than someone we could sympathize with, let alone relate to. He can't hold a conversation with Zoe to save his life ("no way....... José" being played for laughs), and his first encounter with the Murphys -- when he's first asked to talk about his "relationship" with Connor -- starts off with him saying, "We met at the.... /spies bowl of apples on the table/ apples....... place." And of course Cynthia knows what he means right away because the plot called for it. It's just a tad clunky that, a minute later, he's speaking (singing) with perfect clarity and articulation -- not to mention detail -- about something that never actually happened. The audience is meant to laugh AT Evan instead of with him, except for when we're expected to sympathize with him. But the writers can't have their cake and eat it too, and as such, we're rewarded with a show that's so tone-deaf and horribly written that I'm surprised more audience members didn't get whiplash trying to follow along.
@@TumbleFourYa I understand where you are coming from, I definitely think that DEH is problematic and fails in multiple aspects (like the majority of media that tries to depict mental illness) and his social anxiety being played for laughs does make me uncomfortable. But I think that it would be unfair to the stage play to not take the constraints of the medium in mind, most characters from musicals feel like caricatures bcs of multiple factors, like the fact that they do break into song, something that most people do not tend to do. I wanted to make it clear that Evan still sucks for making the emails up tho, for example! What I meant in my original comment is that social anxiety does not necessarily make you unable to lie, at one point mine was so bad that i couldn't hold a conversation with a stranger, and going along with a lie even if coming clean would benefit me much more in the long run was something I did (definitely not to the scale of what Evan did tho). That's not to say that everybody who experiences social anxiety feels the same way as I tho! And Connor's mom believing him could be seen as a grieving mother desperate to hold on to any part of her son whom she felt that she wronged (which is a big theme in the musical lol). In the end i think that so many folks enjoy the show bcs it *does* depict anxiety and depression, even if not perfectly ( actually far from perfectly ). Sorry if my English is a bit messy rn, I have a headache >.>
@@Tay-ge2gf Your English is fine! :) I get what you're saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the tone of the show is glaringly inconsistent. There are better ways it could've been tackled. Take Be More Chill, for example. It also deals with depression and anxiety -- though not explicitly stated -- and feels grounded and real although it's a largely sci-fi plot. The characters are believable and well-rounded. Hell, Michael only really gets one moment to shine, and the majority of the fandom sympathizes with him more than Jeremy! Even something like Phantom is better handled than DEH. It's obviously a very different plot, but it's super telling that the majority of the audience sympathizes with Erik, despite the fact that he's a psychopath and murderer. A huge chunk of Phantom fans actually want him to end up with Christine! In a show that uses angels as a plot device and has a character who's a master magician and ventriloquist -- who occasionally can throw balls of fire -- the antagonist still feels real and human despite the high melodrama of it all. To a point, we can understand his motives and even pity him. That's something I never got with Evan. I cried during Words Fail, but it was because of the Murphys and their heartbreak; I never once felt bad for Evan and actually wished he'd gotten more of what was coming to him. DEH has potential, and maybe if I were the intended age demographic instead of someone who's super removed from high school, I would've "gotten it." But as it stands, it's never read to me as anything more than an incompetent first draft.
I'm not a huge fan of Evan Hansen, I thought even the musical was a bit...cringey. However, cutting "Good for You" really hurt the story. At least showed people were angry with Evan...if anything, I was hoping they gave Evan MORE consequences than the musical, but they did the opposite. Be skippin' this one I think =/.
Yeah like I feel many thought would make it more realistic an give him more real consequences than just people mad/hate you cause he forged fake emails and made up this whole story about his bully that committed suicide to get in with the younger sister he likes an kinda obsessed with [knowing things she was every surprised to think her own family/brother would know like her doing crosswords on back of cereal box] Like how can they spin it to try force him be someone we all resonate with. Feel they tried make him more the "poor shy guy" who got bullied only to finally be seem after his bully commits suicide. An all that followed wasn't him being a bad guy just a teenager desperate for attention an be seen. Desperate get the girl he likes to notice an like him a. That just happens be lil sister of his bully...... Nvm how he treated his mother Nvm guy may have bullied him for creeping on his LITTLE sister. Nvm him legit trying replace his dead bully to get family he wants an date the sister Like just ewe NO He should at LEAST be suspended for using a suicide to manipulate the masses all so he can get the attention and [just maybe] the girl cause if she all sad about her dead brother Conner then easy him slide in and step up an get a kiss like uggggghhhhhhhhh They really taking this sympathetic villain thing too far the more an more they do it.
@@sleeplessknight2260 Agreed, I just thought Good For You was the most obvious I suppose. When I heard they cut it, I was like, the basically consequences/others at least admonishing him song?! I could even get past the lead looking 40, heck they did it in Rent as well, but it just...made an already iffy story into straight sociopathy (or whatever the true term is). Though I don't like the story of Evan Hansen, love the music, but I'll stick with the soundtrack...
Oh my god BEN looks like a TEACHER. They should’ve just hired another super talented performer who has played Evan somewhere, like the show on tour, to spread the love. They did not need to cause distraction by how old Platt clearly is and trying to de-age him. I love the songs so much, but I don’t love the story. That’s rare for me with musicals.
I think Jordan fisher was doing the role around the time pandemic hit and he’s been realistically playing a teen in all the “to all the boys” movies even though he’s only a year younger- I feel like he might have been a better choice but I guess if they botched the screenplay adaptation maybe it was just doomed to fail
There were also Andrew Barth Feldman or Roman Banks who are both still very young and played Evan on Broadway. I mean Andrew was 16 when he first started his run. That would’ve been perfect.
They literally could've just gotten Jordan Fisher who was supposed to be the the new Evan Hansen in the revival that never got to happen because of COVID. (I share a last name with Jordan Fisher, but I promise there is no relation. Just making the point here where's it's relevant)
I find it hilariously ironic that the main actor’s wig and makeup was clearly meant to make him look younger when it actually does the exact opposite. Like, he’s 27, but he looks 37 if not 40!
Connors actor is 27, so I'm not sure why so many people complained about just Ben, and I think it was semi-believable that it was close to being a high schooler. It didn't bug me much during the movie
@@smoothcolors9257 I think people just didn't complain as much about Connor because he's not in a huge portion of the movie, while Evan looking like he's 30 affects how the audience will perceive what is supposed to be the actions of a scared and confused teenage boy.
I always liked that Evan wasn't redeemed in the musical. At the end of it all we only see his mom sticking with him despite what he's done, and that always felt like the ultimate consequence for what he's done. Winding up more alone than ever, but finally having the chance to actually get better. I never saw the meeting with Zoe at the end as a forgiveness, but as a sister who finally made peace with her brothers death. And finally sitting down with the guy who tampered with his memory was a big part of that.
So the Broadway musical’s author /creator states this was based on a real life occurrence that happened at his school. I think what makes this movie different than the play is that we get this redemption arc for Evan while in the play there isn’t one. He is never forgiven and he honestly shouldn’t be. We can try to make amends all we want and the people we’ve hurt don’t have to forgive us. I think people are reacting to it the same way people react to Lolita where they miss the fact the author is telling you “this main character is a monster and this is a cautionary tale please do not sympathise with the protagonist even though he has a mental illness”.
So many people miss the point of media because they are only seeing things at the surface level. Lolita is go show how monsters will justify their actions.
This show is not comparable to Lolita. DEH is manipulative trash whose success was predicated on the fact that it expected people to sympathize with Evan’s supposed social anxiety. A story with an unreliable narrator wouldn’t have the half-hearted attempts at calling out the main character that DEH has. It’s poorly written trash. Any attempts to claim an unreliable narrator are just desperate attempts at justification by fans.
Not to harp on the age thing, but like a few people have said, when a person looks younger we, as an audience, are more willing to make excuses for them because their youth is apparent and we know that maybe one day they'll grow out of it, but given how Ben Platt doesn't have that youthful look, it just puts a bigger spotlight on the dickish things his character does.
Ben Platt has always given me that Lea Michelle over acting wonder kid confidence type and when I learned who his dad was his career made sense to me lol
I vote we stop making film adaptations of musicals and just start freaking making the live recordings available on streaming! I love a movie musical but it has to be made with it being a movie in mind for it to work, IMO.
I don’t know why recording and releasing pro-shots of Broadway shows isn’t more common. It mostly retains the magic and intimacy of the stage performance, it allows fans without the budget for or proximity to Broadway to truly experience the show, and it cuts down on illegal filming and bootlegs.
@@KingOfGaymes In The Heights, Mamma Mia, Chicago, West Side Story (both the 1961 and the recent 2021), Les Miserables, Annie, My Fair Lady, Sound of Music, The Prom, Grease, these are all great, decent and entertaining Broadway adaptations
@@KingOfGaymes The musical was based off of a John Waters comedy which came out in 1988. This probably made it easier to adapt the musical into a film later on.
as a fan of the stage version, or was, I am so annoyed that ben platt was the one they casted, and I get his dad is producing it, but the way he acted like it was his right to have this role above anyone else, made me feel so icky. also, if they were gonna cast a stage evan, they could’ve tried for andrew barth feldman, who actually looks like a high schooler. side note, you said it had to be a wig, I can indeed confirm it is not
This is so true... I wanted a fresh cast and was seriously disappointed that Ben Platt was the one playing it on screen. I get it that he's like a titular evan hansen, but even theater cast changes.
Nepotism looks like it is still alive and well… Pride does come before the fall, and it did feel like Ben was mutton dressed as lamb. I get that people want to hold onto their glory days, but at what cost…
Andrew Barth Feldman was 16 when he was cast as Evan Hansen and was the youngest leading "man" ever on Broadway. He played the role for a year, from January 2019 to January 2020. The movie of *Dear Evan Hansen* began shooting in August, 2020, when Andrew was 18. Today (May 7, 2022) happens to be Andrew's 20th birthday.
so the movie makes a weird implication that the letter Connor finds might have played a partial role in his eventual s*icide. why wouldn't the movie then emphasize that the reason Evan doesn't come clean is because he doesn't want Connor's family to make that same assumption (and/or he doesn't want to make that assumption for himself)? like that would've given the movie virtually the same plot it just could have potentially come off as more sympathetic and less "i'm getting close to you all for my own selfish reasons"-y.
I’ve never heard that interpretation before, but yes!! Connor could have really identified with Evan’s letter and killed himself right after. Strange that it’s never explored.
Making it a friendship rather than a romance with the sister he's had a crush on forever would have helped big time to with the selfishness department too
@@cthulhutheendless1587 i interpreted OPs idea more as Evan thinking that Connor assuming the letter was another mean prank was the straw that broke the camel's back and he was afraid of them blaming him
As someone with both anxiety and depression, Dear Evan Hansen (the musical) was instrumental for me growing up and working through some of my own issues. I never once agreed with Evan on what he was doing, but I sympathized with him so much to the point that I started to recognize some of his qualities as things I saw in myself. And I think that's the point of the musical. Can we sympathize with someone who has done something terrible and try to understand him? This movie proves that with slight reframing, the story completely falls apart. Even if this was a 1:1 retelling that didn't exclude such pivotal moments from the play, I don't think it would've worked as a film (mostly because 40-year-old Ben Platt is still really distracting). The set design of the play is filled with all these screens that reflect the inner monologue and feelings of Evan. It gives us a much better understanding of his thoughts and feelings at the moment. The story is far from perfect, but with a subject as complex as mental health, extra care needed to be taken to make its message very clear the way the musical did. Otherwise, the whole plot just becomes a complete mess. TL;DR: Can we please stop making film adaptations of musicals?
I'd like to tweak that to "can we stop making Live Action film adaptations of musicals?" Animation can actually properly carry over the more impressionist elements of musicals, and then some! :D with adult animation slowly rising in sophistication and quality, I hope we someday get a great animated musical for an older audience.
@@TindraSan absolutely! they both require suspension of disbelief and maybe that way people wont feel uncomfortable with the idea of people singing and dancing instead of talking. Sadly I think director are producers are obsessed with a 'naturalistic' look of movie musicals that is overly serious and kind of apologetic for being a musical.
@@Keznen Nah, CGI can do certain stylistic things too, it's just that not a lot of studios do enough. Sony Animation is the main ones who do very good stylistic animation comparable to 2D. I think the "ideal" style for people who say these kinds of things would be something like Disney's Paperman, where it's 3D animation stylized to look 2D
Do I think Evan (from the musical) is a villain? Yes. Do I think he's sympathetic? Yes. Do I think what he did was okay? NO! Do I think he should have faced consequences for his actions? 1000% Edit: Honestly, I feel like it would have been interesting if their was a story about Connor, starting with us knowing he committed suicide and seeing his family's and other people's reactions, then slowly piecing his life together. It would show his flaws, his triumphs, how he affected people, and even if in the end it circles back to his death, it could show an important message about mental health. Even though Connor hated himself and life, he was worth saving, and his life was worth living.
That's definitely the main problem with the movie, the musical doesn't let you forget that Evan while not a bad person, is definitely the bad guy in this situation. The movie tries to soften it so he doesn't look that bad by making sure we don't really see what everyone else is thinks about the situation.
@@ghostmemeboi It's a similar concept, but I don't think Connor would have left any explanation behind, nor would he show up again in scenes where he isn't alive in what I imagined. But I haven't really watched 13 Reasons Why because I've heard less then stellar things, so idk
Amanda, I'd suggest releasing the entire "trailer recut as a thriller" as a solo piece, the hits will be astronomical. It's going to happen anyway, might as well get ahead of it!
I just wish it wasn't playing off of the same content other channels do as there's already multiple channels that switch trailer genres like this. If Amanda is going to be playing around with new ideas like this I'd love to see her do something more original!
@@raindropsonroses3919 I have social anxiety as well and I just hate how it is portrayed in this musical. The only thing I related to was Waving Through a Window. But it seems like they missed the mark on a lot of other stuff.
as an avid of enjoyer of the musical, I have no problems with them sticking in a man into a highschool, whatever, but taking out a lot of the songs that show how what Evan is doing isn't okay, and how he shouldn't be praised for it, really puts you as the viewer on his side, which you shouldn't be. they also took out a ton of the best songs :/
Haven't seen the movie yet but I was lucky enough to see the musical live right before Covid hit and to hear that any of the songs were cut makes me question if this is worth the price of admission. What songs got cut if you don't mind me asking because you're right, Evan is NOT supposed to be a praiseworthy character. Pitiable at best, maybe sympathetic, but definitely not praiseworthy.
@@DoveCalderwood they took out Good For You!? That is arguably the best song on the soundtrack and shows how his lies have started affecting everyone else and how he's struggling with how far it's gone, what dimwit took that out
@@jennalove and it also really showed how even though he was "putting himself before others" he didn't care how it hurt or effected the others in that situation, especially his mom. then he just expects forgiveness form her.
Here's how I saw Connors meltdown: He didn't actually think he was being set up. He was lashing out hoping someone would see he wasn't well, and help him. I sincerely think it was a cry for help.
@@WaitinInAmber he didn't go to Evan to help. He lashed out in the hope that someone would stop him or do something, he then bought drugs and overdosed. But before this, he texted his best friend/boyfriend (they had a complicated relationship) Miguel who he hadn't contacted in a few months due to an argument Connor had with Miguel. He wrote "I miss you" and Miguel didn't respond as he was at work. When he got back from work, he tried to call but Connor had already passed and he only found out that he passed via facebook and the Connor project. Miguel caught onto what Evan was doing, lying, but didn't say anything as he was glad that Connor was getting the recognition he deserved. "Connor, he just... I've never met someone like that. That innocent. That pure. Sometimes I think maybe he was too pure... for all this."
In the book he literally had a boyfriend and what brought him to suicide was his boyfriend not picking up in time. His bf literally finds Evan at the end of the book too and tells him that he knew e was lying because Connor was nothing like the emails. Honestly I wish they would’ve added that to the movie.
I love the book way more than the musical and movie. Honestly after the book it makes the musical look kinda bad.... at least in my opinion. Like getting Connor's perspective as well made me love the book so much more. I wish they kept more things in the musical then they took even more out of the movie. It fucking sucks honestly....
It's because the order was Musical -> Book -> Movie, the book is based on the musical, not the other way around. The people involved in the movie also were different to the ones writing the book, so it makes sense they didn't include Miguel (the boyfriend op mentioned). I'd also argue that having a secret person that has known Connor kind of defeats the point. No one knew Connor and no one will get to know him because he died and it's supposed to be sad, it's supposed to be a tragedy that he died so young
It's gonna be weeks before I get 'Sincerely, Me' out of my head - but also watch to the end for a lil fake trailer treat EDIT OCT 26 - Just donated $2654 to The Kids Help Phone with the ad revenue from this video, thanks for watching
There was a song called 'Part of Me' that was cut from the musical where everyone talks about how, in losing someone, they lost a part of themselves. It showcases how the line between genuine grief and making someone's death about yourself can be so thin that it's at times invisible. At that point in the show's development, Connor was more like an actual ghost, watching everyone use his death for their own ends. It's eerie when he chimes in at the end to sing _"a part of me..."_ Ultimately, they changed tack, cut the darker stuff, and, when "Connor" appears in the musical, he's a manifestation of the devil on Evan's shoulder and not actually Connor Murphy. I think they should've leaned into the original approach.
@@AmandaTheJedi But was it a good choice to take the movie in another direction? To me, the musical always made clear that Evan isnt a good guy, and acted out of his own suffering and resulting dellusion. Basicly all critics i heard until now make him out t be a creepy guy who manipulates a families grief to f*** their daughter.
The first time I dive into Dear Evan Hansen I did it because TH-cam recommended “Sincerely me” and it caught my attention, I went totally blinded into the musical, butI had the idea that it might be about Evan involved in this situation with Connor’s parents and make all of the fake emails BECAUSE somehow Evan was able to see and talk with Connor’s ghost and he was helping him with unsolved issues or something like that. Needless to say I was very wrong
i find this hilarious as i was thinking just recently how Sincerely Me could work for a character who's a medium also i just love this interpretation of the plot. like can someone make this a real thing 👀 (along w the horror idea, that's great too)
I don’t know what they did to his face, but it looks like he’s wearing a crazy mask. He looked fine in pitch perfect and the most recent stuff he’s done. They could’ve just kept him like that. I’d rather an old looking Ben Platt than some creepy prosthetics.
@@passiveagressive4983 it’s like they added baby fat to his face or something. The scene at the end where he’s crying and about to climb the tree…I’m like “omg why is his head sooo big and his body is so small”
The musical also sucks at framing Evan as a bad person because all the songs and moments showing it place the emphasis of the tragedy on Evan, not the family he manipulated.
I’m so happy someone else pointed this out, I felt like I was going slightly crazy. I really wished that Conner was addressed more because I feel like he’s the type of person that people don’t paint as a victim of s*. Conner doesn’t fit the normal profile and as such his death seems less tragic for those around him. It hurts my heart to think about.
I don’t think so. I thought that it was pretty clear that the musical showed us how he used other people for his own gain, was in the wrong and hurt them. I think ‘Good For You’ captured that and the scenes, where he treats his Mom, Alana and his friend badly, also the one were he understood that he is wrong (his last talk with “Connor” I think ). Even though, when he realised, he thought everyone would understand and forgive him, because he wasn’t able to take the truth. I thought that the musical wanted to show us his deep rooted pain and struggles, in order for us to be able to sympathise with him, but additionally it’s still showing us, how wrong he was. I also don’t think that it was the goal to deem him as just a bad person, since he is a teenager he has still room to grow and better himself. In my opinion, it was about his growth and how he learned his lesson from the start, not Connors family. Nevertheless, I do think that more emphasis on Connor as a character could have been interesting.
I agree with everything but the Conner point. The thing with Conner is, is that we're not supposed to know him. It's essentially put us in the real world situation of "This kid seems interesting and fun, doesn't he? Well too bad you'll never get to know him now, he's gone" it kinda adds more tragedy imo.
Im gonna say this (havent seen the movie yet): Just about every character in the musical is like,,,,bad and sucks Literally the only character who didnt actively push the lies and bullshit about connor was heidi. Evan started the lie due to his anxiety and continued it The murphy family becomes obsessed with the fake connor Jared antagonized evan into continuing the lie and actively helped him in making shit up ALANA ESSENTIALLY TOOK OWNERSHIP OVER THE CONNOR PROJECT AND POSTED WHAT SHE THOUGHT WAS SOMEONES SUICIDE NOTE BECAUSE IT STOPPED GETTING ATTENTION. EVERYONE FORGETS THAT.
I haven’t seen the movie too, just the stage version, but actually liked that almost all the characters are flawed. They are scared, hurt, scarred and try to seek and ease the pain they are feeling, but in unhealthy ways, just like people in the real world sometimes do when they are desperate. Sometimes they take drastic measures, without thinking about everyone else and only their gain. It’s scary, uncomfortable, but in my opinion realistic. I liked that they also all do have qualities that can make them good or sympathetic, contrasting their inexcusable actions and flaws.
that’s why i love the musical so much. every character is fucked up in their own way. not every piece of media has to be a morality piece. it’s not about who’s doing the ‘right’ thing. they’re just all amoral little shits trying to claw their way through this shitty situation. and like what’s more human than that?
@@DasTretminchen see this part i loved about the musical and i wish the focus it got from fans was this and not the whole thing about it being this super uplifting take on mental health or whatever (not to shit on anyone the musical did help, i just feel like it Should Not be getting praise for how it treated mental illness)
Except that he never actually assaulted anyone. And except for the fact that he doesn't get what he wanted in the end. And except for the fact that he admitted the truth in order to save this family's reputation, not because he was caught, and had no other way out. But other than that, I can see the comparison, as both protagonists lie a lot in order to be closer to their love interests, and feel invisible otherwise.
I’ve always had a soft (?) spot for Connor and what you said about his suicide is something I’ve never thought of before. I hate how much sense it makes because it makes it even more sad
A big thing I've learned lately is that apparently, a lot of casual fans of dear even hansen did not come away with the right idea about evan's actions and it's so wild to me. This is just my experience but in the dedicated fandom spaces I was in (deh was a hyperfixation of mine for,, too long) everyone was very clear about the whole like, evan is a sympathetic villain thing. People did mostly disregard that for fan content, as they do, but when talking about the actual show we were all on the same page about the way it kinda does the "frog in boiling water" thing where you just watch everything getting worse and worse under this uncomfortable veneer of like, oh look at this great thing we're doing! Like dramatic irony used to an uncomfortable degree, since evan also knows what the audience knows. But then when the movie started being advertised I started seeing so many people talking about how they thought evan's actions were condoned or endorsed in the text, and that a lot of people straight up came away thinking his actions were justified, and I honestly don't get it. Like, at the very least by the time If I Could Tell Her rolls around, you should be extremely extremely uncomfortable imo, I can't imagine being on evan's side at that point and I do think that is due to the musical's writing. But idk, I feel like there is validity to the argument that if so many people didn't see evan as the bad guy, maybe they could have made it clearer somehow. Although to me it feels like they did a good job at that, I can't deny that obviously wasn't the case for everyone.
Yeah, I was a casual listener of the songs of the musical for a while and totally didn't get that the situation was so messed up. Only after some time that I was like: ok, but what Evan ir actually really bad and cannot be justified or waved away,, right? The little that I witnessed regarding fan discourse showed me that, though some view Evan as a sympathetic villain, there are still people who think that what he did was reasonable. (I also see some parallels between Evan messing up and the classic moment in teenage movies where the protagonist messes up somehow but makes up for it apologizing or something in the end. We are so used to this story format that maybe we assume that's what happens on the musical too)
@@srtatropicalia yeah, that's so fair- and after finishing the video, I do agree with Amanda that they wrote Zoe in the musical to be a little too forgiving at the end, I can understand how that could totally give the feeling like we're supposed to forgive Evan at the end. I think they could have handled some things better to make it clearer that Evan's actions are really reprehensible while still humanizing him, since it didn't come across to everyone very well
I wouldn't be too sure anyone actually *did* see him as in the right. This backlash seems like people who'd never heard of the show read the synopsis and flipped out under the *assumption* that everyone who was a fan took it at face value. Maybe because they assume all musicals are 1 dimensional. Or maybe because you're obviously going to have a different and much more reactionary response to reading a synopsis than to actually consuming a story the way you're *supposed* to. Either way, if I were you I would trust your experience in the fandom over someone who saw a picture of Old Platt and wanted to get in on the Hot Take Train. It's just like when everyone decided Hamilton was problematic because "obviously" the show wanted you to think slaveowners were heroic pinnacles of enlightenment 🙄
@@pseudonymous9153 the thing is, there's a lot of value to criticizing media we like. I love Hamilton, I genuinely still know every word of it, but I think it's extremely ironic in ways that are not often good or intentional. (I think Hamilton's issues are more about a not-so-great concept which was executed so well that we almost didn't realize it was about rapping slave owners, and DEH's problem is more like having a great, messed up concept that just could have been more fleshed out and thoughtful in some aspects.) They're both really enjoyable media that's still flawed in some ways, and reasoned criticism of them is totally valid. I'll be honest, it would be really silly of me to just trust my 15 year old self's opinion and experience with it, especially since I projected so hard onto it and probably had rose-colored glasses in a way. My takeaway from watching the video and the other reply here, was that it was probably easy for me and my circle of theater kids to see Evan as being in the wrong precisely because we sympathized with him, but were familiar enough with how toxic those behaviors were to know without the show having to tell us. But for other people just taking the show at face value, especially younger teens, I can see how certain aspects came across as condoning or justifying Evan's actions. Again, still love the show! But it's healthy to be able to realize, like, this media meant a lot to me, but it didn't work for everyone and that doesn't mean that the other people are wrong, just that it maybe didn't do the best job at coming across the right way. Hope that makes sense!
Jared and Alana are both awful friends for obvious reasons. Evan never wanted to lie to the Murphys - Jared convinced him to. Evan only really digs into the lie about Connor after the Murphys start fighting. Evan comes from a broken home. He knows the signs of a family falling apart, and he doesn't want that to happen to the Murphys. Do you know when Evan comes clean about the whole thing? When the Murphys start fighting again. Evan willingly throws himself under the bus to keep the family from falling apart again. Do you know why the Murphys were fighting? Because despite *begging her for the Murphy's sake* not to, Alana decides to share the suicide note with absolutely no regard for anything else but her precious "engagement". She is literally the reason everything falls apart. How are she and Jared not the antagonists of the story? After Evan lies about Connor and the orchard, Zoe is so angry about it that she launches into Requiem. In the middle of "If I Could Tell Her", she asks if there was anything else Connor said about her, but is then incredibly bashful about asking. That didn't feel like an, "I don't want you to know that I secretly wanted praise from my brother," kind of embarrassment to me. That sounded like an, "I don't want you to know that I want /you/ to keep saying nice things about me", kind of embarrassment to me. She doesn't believe Connor said anything about her being awesome at the start of the song, why would she start believing him halfway through? They had good chemistry before Connor even took his own life. When she apologizes to Evan about Connor's behavior, she's genuinely endeared with him already. She knew Evan was full of shit and telling her what he felt in his own way. Weird? Definitely. But look at their first conversation and tell me she would think that's out of character for him. At the end of the second half, Zoe says, "You gave me my brother back." This does not mean that she suddenly believes he's a saint. But seeing the good that Connor's memory is doing for other people, along with Evan's insistence that there was good in him, helps her confront her own grief over his death. He may have been abusive, but he was still her brother, and a part of her still loved him. Evan helped her realize that she didn't have to totally accept or reject him. She could remember the good things about him without forgiving him for the bad. She could grieve for her brother without accepting the monster that he was. It's notable that after this, they sing "Only Us". She's processed her feelings for Connor, and is ready to move on. Her relationship with Evan had very little to do with Connor's memory. Evan's mother is incredibly toxic. When she discovers he's been hiding things like the Connor project from her, she immediately starts guilt tripping him over not telling her, despite the fact that what he was hiding were all signs of him becoming a more successful, confident person. He's the co-founder of a charity foundation, and she's so concerned with him hiding it from her, she forgets to... you know, be happy that he's being more outgoing? This is a pattern with her. When she's hurt, she doesn't care enough to have a conversation about it, she just immediately starts lashing out, and then she wonders why Evan won't tell her anything. And the worst example of this is the conversation just before Good For You. She starts out alright, talking about how mortifying it is to find out about his relationship with the Murphys in the way that she did, but then she starts insulting the Murphys, who are perfectly well-meaning. "These... these these these PEOPLE!". And when Evan tries to defend them, she then doubles down, and starts mocking them and going back to guilt tripping him, and that's when Evan really start pushing back. I get being upset, but the way she talks to Evan is incredibly immature at best and antagonistic at worst. And turning down the college money is her ego at its finest. She's perfectly willing to sacrifice Evan's emotional needs so that they can get by, but when she has to swallow her pride and accept help from people who ADORE her son - "It would be such a gift for us to do this for Evan..." - she practically implodes from the sheer indignity of it all. She then goes on to mock the people who have been giving her son the emotional support he needed because she feels insignificant and is scared of Evan leaving her the way his dad did, not realizing that lashing out in the way she does is literally what is pushing him away. Lastly, I think people undervalue what exactly it was that Evan did for the Murphys. The question that keeps coming up is "Why did Connor kill himself?" That's literally what the Murphys are always fighting about. What Evan's lie did, even if it was a lie, was show the Murphys that they didn't need to search for a reason. It was enough to remember him and be at peace with his memory. For depression and suicide, that is an INCREDIBLY important lesson for grieving families because sometimes there isn't a good reason, and you can hurt yourself more in the search for answers. Plenty of parents blame themselves, and that's exactly what we see Mrs. Murphy doing when everything blows up. She starts asking if it was their fault, if they're bad parents, because that's what the internet is telling them. All of Evan's efforts to keep them from searching for that answer were falling apart, and he knew that the only way to keep them from imploding again was to come clean. Evan himself admits in Words Fail that what he did was partially selfish. But he also says this: This was just a sad invention It wasn't real, I know But we were happy I guess I couldn't let that go I guess I couldn't give that up Not I was happy. /We/ were happy. I don't see evan as a sympathetic villain. I see him as a tragic hero. He was trying to make the best of a really bad situation. Do you tell the family the truth and watch them fall apart before your eyes? Or do you lie to keep them together and maybe make them, and maybe even yourself, feel better in the process? It's a no-win situation, really. And the reason they couldn't be happy in the end wasn't because of Evan's lie. It was because Alana told too much of the truth. It was because Jared wanted to use Evan. It was because Evan's mom couldn't let go of her own pride and her own pain and just be happy for what Evan had. She tells him they aren't your family, but family isn't always the people related to us by blood. They're the people who nurture us and are there for us when we need them. The Murphys were that for Evan in a way that his mother couldn't be, even if she was trying. But rather than being happy that he was getting the love and attention he needed, she chose to be bitter and self-righteous, and there's really no excuse for that. Trying or not, that's really shitty behavior from a parent. Also, Evan was officially dating Zoe at the time, so they very likely would have become his in-laws.
As an avid fan myself, I always saw the major flaws of Evan (and the other characters) as the strongest points of the musical's mental health advocacy. None of the characters are perfect--and some are more harmful than others (Connor and his abusive tendencies, Evan and his lies, Alana and her post of Connor's suicide note, etc)--but in the end, they're all capable of self-improvement. Rather than treating any of them as either perfect victims or complete monsters, as other media tend to do with characters who struggle with mental illnesses, the musical can paint each characters' awful actions as awful while always leaving room for nuance. No character is beyond redemption or change except--arguably--Connor. Not because he's done one too many misdeeds to be forgiven, but simply because he's dead. His opportunities were cut short and now he can only develop retroactively the minds of others. And in that lies the message that helped me through junior high and high school: No matter what you've done in the past, you'll always have a future. As long as you stay alive, you'll always be capable of becoming a better person. That's why I'm attached to DEH (the musical, at least). Nobody's perfect, nobody's evil, and nobody's unworthy of sympathy or love.
I agree, Chloe. I think that the massive backlash DEH film received is a sign of a bigger picture - Today's audiences running away from anything remotely ''problematic'', unless it's about ''killing bad guys'', or something so far removed from reality that it becomes escapism. Basically every film recently released featuring characters verbally fighting, manipulating, lying or being aggressive in any form has been panned by many. Of course, the way it handles those things is crucial, but even in cases like DEH, where the protagonist learns from his mistakes, and doesn't end-up with his love interest, the criticism is the same. It's like modern audiences cannot grasp any shade of grey between being infallable and being irredeemable. Frankly, life doesn't work that way, and being on a high horse isn't exactly a good personality trait either. Sure, we all criticize Evan's behavior, as we are supposed to. That shouldn't take way from the fact that he has good traits as well, nor that he by his own volition, admitted to the lies, and tried to do better. I am a bit disappointed how black and white things have to be presented in order for people to sympathize with the characters.
@@chloe._. It takes a very different, altogether stranger path. But if you want that sort of message done not just well, but pretty much fucking perfectly, I can't recommend it enough.
The worst part is that the book is a retelling of the musical as well, and it does it so much better. Obviously books can go much more in depth that musicals or movies, but the changes they made in the book were much better than the ones in the movie.. I recommend the book to anyone who was disappointed by the movie or even the original musical. While it still isn't perfect, it explains everything a bit more and shows more of Connors side of the story
My god, I was hoping for someone to comment that. I liked the book much much more than the musical (even though I'm a total fan of the songs). The feeling of Evan being completely wrong accompanies us throughout the whole story. And Connor's pov finally makes the narrative itself just... more fair? It always bugged me that in the musical we never even knew the real Connor.
I'm a musical theatre kid. I was in college for musical theatre when DEH came out and, despite being extremely excited for a new Pasek and Paul show, I listened to it and have despised it ever since. My brother died when I was 17, and it's something just awful and unimaginable. There isn't a lot of media that takes the perspective of the sibling of someone who dies, so it sometimes feels like people forget that it's also the worst thing in the world for you. While grieving my brother, I had people come up to me to make sure I was "taking care of my parents" and "being strong for them" at such a horrible time. You get the message that your pain comes second. So for this show to make the death of a character about someone who's actively using the situation to get close to the sister makes me sick. If someone had done that to me, it would have absolutely destroyed me. The relationships and little bright spots you find after a tragedy can feel like the only things keeping you going, so to learn that any of them are false... I don't know, I couldn't handle it. Anyway, I can understand how other young people can see this story (moreso the stage show than the movie) as helpful and relatable with their own struggles with mental health, but for someone with a closer connection to the story, it’s more harmful than anything else. One really interesting thing about DEH is that it seems like Canadian audiences (specifically those in Toronto) didn’t find the same magic as American audience. There was a production of DEH at Mirvish in 2019 that had to close early because they weren’t selling enough tickets. In fact, Mirvish had to rush out the announcement of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child more than (I believe) a month before they were supposed to, since DEH bombed so hard. Of course, that meant the Toronto production of Come From Away was then able to retake their original home, thankfully. Honestly, I’m still so salty that DEH beat CFA at the Tony’s. Sorry for the long comment, I just had to get some of that off of my chest.
@@robotsocks-504 you don't have to & that's all fine but, when writing, probably just use the actual quotation marks ("quotes") to say what you did. It's just easier & more universally understood for people who aren't reading comments with English being their first/only language.
@@tazhienunurbusinezz1703 ah sorry I thought u was just being a pedant lol. I mostly did it because, imo, reading "quote, unquote" is funnier than just straight up quotation marks?? I'll keep it in mind tho ^^
THANK YOU for saying all this. Living in Manhatten when this show came out, I had way too many people judge me for thinking I was a sociopath for not loving the way this plot happened. I'm all for mental health awareness and feeling social anxiety. But what Evan did was messed up.
Dear Evan Hansen was dead to me ever since it got Best Musical over Great Comet of 1812 at the Tonys lol. Plus Ben Platt kinda rubs me the wrong way a bit, I wish they’d casted Andrew Barth-Feldman
Great Comet was incredible and I'm still mad it lost out and also closed in that awful way. I think Ben deserved the Tony but the show as a whole? Naaah. I still don't know what I'm supposed to take away from Dear Evan Hansen.
Likewise, the music was always my favourite part of this musical, but it's not without its flaws, naturally. Evan himself is just out for his own personal gain, and only confesses after the family starts getting heckled online.
@@trinaq But when Evan meets the Murphys you can see how they are pushing him for anything about their son and he’s too afraid to tell them the truth. It’s not the right thing to do but at the beginning at least I think Evan wanted to give them something good about their son after seeing the family fight over Conner.
I never thought the musical tried to redeem him. It jumped a few years ahead of where everyone has distanced themselves from the pain a little which is still obviously present. I never got the impression that Zoey forgave him, just that she understood why and just accepted that yeah that's a shitty thing that happened and I'm not going to waste any more energy being mad about it. It showed that Evan, who did a horrible horrible thing that hurt so many people, was able to keep going, reflecting his mother's advice in the song Does anyone have a map. Something along the lines can't we just fuck up enough to see that the world won't fall apart. It's an encouraging story, that no matter what we do there is a tomorrow and we just need to keep going.
0:38 Amanda: "But Evan has a secret--" Me: "oh he's just *pretending* to be a high schooler! Phew" Amanda: "he didn't really know Connor and he's secretly in love with their daughter" Me: "... because he's only pretending to be a high schooler???"
He doesn't look like a high school student AT ALL, but to be fair, neither do other people in this film, or 90% of other films. Not only that Hollywood doesn't really cast minors (which I get, because of the labor laws), but it also refuses to cast people who are 18-21, and look visibly younger than their actual age. Most of these ''high schoolers'' look exactly their actual age rather than even attempting looking younger. So, while I get the criticism towards Ben Platt playing 17, I don't know why so many people are outraged in way like it's the first time that happened.
@@AlirioAguero2 It's because he LOOKS so jarringly old compared to the other actors around him. Jared and Zoe and Alana's actors are all about the same age as Ben Platt, yet they look like the type of high schoolers you normally see in movies, whereas Ben looks _just_ too-old enough for it to be a little uncanny valley.
The Prom had a meaningful storyline that was completely erased in the movie so they could shove big time celebs down our throats, and DEH does the same by making sure the main character has a happy ending regardless of whether or not he deserves it. This is what happens when Hollywood takes charge of projects. Just please stop adapting musicals into Hollywood movies.
You know what was a great musical movie this year that involved the original cast in a lot of the decisions, stayed true to it's origins, and DIDN'T cast the original actor in the lead role? In The Heights. You know what this movie is? Not In The Heights.
I don’t think i can give a fair evaluation of this movie at this point, i’m just EXTREMELY SALTY that they basically cut 90% of Jared’s everything: screentime, role in the story, personality… Which is TWISE as insulting cause he’s this show gay rep - like, yeah, lets make this important character gay, but turn him from one of the major figures in secondary cast to basically a background character, are you serviced LGBT??????? =/
As a response to evan saying he did the worst thing anyone could, yes, however, let's not forget in the musical jared made merch with conors face on it and made a profit from his suicide.
a lot of parents liked this bc it showed the real struggle of not knowing what to do to help your kids, and taking out “does anybody have a map” and “good for you” does evan’s mom SO dirty :( and connor’s mom too. a huge part of the story involved the dynamics w the parents and so it appealed to a much wider audience, not just middle school girls or ppl w/ anxiety & depression. the movie took those out and i feel like it takes away from another layer of the story.
I can't believe they removed "Good for You", a huge point of the musical is how Evan, even though the viewer feels some sympathy or empathy for him, is 100% in the wrong. A giant theme is how we selfishly use others as characters in our own story: Evan obviously does this, Alana too, Zoe goes off on her parents for using Connor more to confirm their own biases than ever actually caring for them, and then ofc everyone on social media. We actually see a lot of this in the musical, as Evan has these mental conversations with "Connor" that the musical at the end makes clear is just his mental voice wearing Connor's face. I like that they spent more time with the moral of legitimately listening to each other and making an effort to see someone for who they are, but I think that moral is a lot weaker if Evan faces less punishment.
As a response to evan saying he did the worst thing anyone could, yes, however, let's not forget in the musical jared made merch with conors face on it and made a profit from his suicide.
I really hate the musical. Like don't get me wrong, I love the music part of it all because it's fun. But the second I think of the background and the story I deal with psychic damage too big to endure
I remember back when I was first discovering this musical and asking why he said the whole thing about the emails. "Well he just panicked and made up a lie cos they weren't listening to the truth" "But he already told them about the apple orchard thing, right? Why didn't he just, like, stop there?" "Idk, he panicked and kept lying I guess" "Yeah but isn't he bad at talking to people? How is he so good at lying on the spot?"
Oh I can answer the why! Like you said, he was panicking, but there's also a big part of him that feels bad for Cynthia and wants so desperately for her to be happy. It's also been established that he's a good writer (his mom says that in regards to college scholarships), so he has to be some degree of creative, plus he's basically repurposing his own memories and desires. Hope this helps!
Sadly, yes. It's not the paragon of mental health rep people seem to _think_ it is. Lmao. As someone who's pretty mentally ill, I kinda hate the musical. The songs are fine and catchy and sound great but the plot is disgusting. I hate it.
That's how I felt when I finally watched a bootleg of it. I was honestly so confused, it just didn't fit at all with how people talked about it. All it really did for me was upset me. The music on it's own was definitely more impactful, then come to learn half of it isn't about what it sounds like it's about because it's all based on a lie. Blegh
Lol. I had the same reaction when I finally read the plot after the trailer dropped. Definitely looking at folks differently. Why were yall stanning this play to begin with? The movie is getting the reaction the play should have gotten from the jump. I was disgusted.
Literally my reaction right now. I never really dived into the musicals story although I legitimately liked the few songs of the soundtrack I listened to (no particular reason for why I didn't took more interest in it, I just simply didn't look further into it) and based on the way people talk so highly about the musical I always assumed that the story has a MUCH more positive ending for Evan and everyone involved. Sure I knew that the lie he tangled himself up in got out of hand and that a seriously messed up situation was created out of it but I kinda just trusted the story (and the general publics reaction) that things get solved in the end. Today is the first time I hear about Evan ending up basically loosing everything at the end of the show because of his lies, that's *buckle ass wild.* People NEVER talked about how legitimately messed up the actual story is, painting it as one of hope and overcoming the darkest times of your life while facing serious mental health problems and your own mortality. I am... kinda overwhelmed right now ngl. How has DEH become THIS BIG of a hit and THIS talked-about and yet it seems to get pretty misrepresented concerning its actual context? Did the musical actually life THIS MUCH from its percentage of fans who had no way of watching the show themselves and therefore kinda just... didn't know and sheared their wrong assumptions about the shows plot?? I don't know what to do with all of this right now, I honestly didn't expect any of this at all. How THE *FUCK* is this even possible??
The white lie that escalates and spirals out of control is one of my favourite tropes, but it definitely has to be done right. It works for both comedies and dramas.
yeah but like... he coulda say there weren't emails.. or just.. not make fake ones. There's way too much active over the top fabrication to give him a pass there. Her pushing is where I'd give him a pass at letting them believe the letter was from him and that they had talked a bit and that was it
I said this on twitter, but i´ll say it here. If you want to see a coming of age film about anxiety, depression, grief and suicide...i recommend Ordinary People (1980)
I liked the musical a lot when I was younger, but looking back it's kind of... sinister? Apparently it was always meant to show that Evan wasn't the greatest person and that just flew right over my head I guess
Don’t blame yourself- I don’t think the show does a great job of framing/showing that what Evan does is wrong. (Part of this has to do with the music too but a lot of people seem to like the music so I won’t go into that)
There is a novelization of the play that I'm reading and it goes into a lot more of Evan's thought process and why he came to do the things that he did. I don't think anyone is a monster, just misunderstood people doing what they thought was best at the time or unable to do the right thing for whatever reason. People make bad decisions and sometimes those bad decisions have major consequences. This is the review that got me intrigued enough to buy the novel when I saw it and I appreciate your candidness and your bombastic speaking style! Adding: The book also shares the Connor story :)
i went and saw Dear Evan Hansen a couple years ago and i cried, like a lot, but at the same time i was aware that if you think about the plot for more than like 5 seconds it’s…yikes
Can we kind of kill the "secretly in love with X person in highschool" trope? Like, most of the time the person pining hasn't even talked to the love interest which to me means you don't actually know them and thus cannot be in love with them.
The original show had a song called "Obvious" that was cut in favor of "If I could Tell Her". I can't find a reason why, but the lyrics for Obvious just describe Evan's attraction as that vague infatuation most YA and Romances push as "love". If I Could Tell Her on the other hand's lyrics are all about Evan specifically listing various actual things about Zoe that Evan likes, showing that he's actually gotten to know her already if only to a degree. (Though yes, Evan is lying that these were what Connor liked about Zoe in a dual effort to hide his true feelings out of fear of rejection, and to try and comfort Zoe's mixed feelings about Connor...with disastrous results.) Plus they did briefly talk right before Waving Through a Window, though again, Evan withheld his true feelings for Zoe. Also I just wanna say I love how they just had them get together mid-way rather then resort to that "Will They Won't They" bullshit. Also the whole scene with "Only Us" in the stage show is a win.
I hate this argument. There’s more than one type of love. Obviously conflating your first high school love with the love of, say, a long term partner is disingenuous, but saying something is or isn’t love because it doesn’t meet a set of arbitrary requirements is ludicrous.
@@sydneydunaway5618 I don't think my standards of actually knowing a person and talking to them once is arbitrary when it comes to romantic love. Sure a universal "I love all mankind" doesn't require actual contact but that's not usually the type of love explored in high school romance movies. But you might think differently and that's alright by me.
Every time I see a bad DEH review it feels like compensation for the 2017 Tony awards. PS: if you want a good musical about mental health, I think Bandstand covers the topic a lot better and deserves the hype DEH has. Great Comet also handles depression in a better way imo
Next to Normal is also a VERY good musical about mental health. And I think it covers it a lot more carefully. (I would read the plot first because it does cover topics that can be triggering.) I have social anxiety. Waving Through a Window is a song I resonated with.... But as for the plot? I think the writers (for stage and screen) stumbled with the message they were trying to say.
@@evies.1018 I was lucky enough to see the show when my university did a production of it. It's a HEAVY show, but it is written very well. It is absolutely one of my favorite shows.
I saw the ads and I was like "Does this creep lie about being friends with a dead kid? There's no way they can play this off as him not being a psycho" And I read the summary and was like Oh dear lord he just starts taking his life basically! People find this inspirational!? Like the plot is an ending knife fight away from being a Lifetime movie
I remember when I was watching the play the song “You will be found” really filled me with dread. It was framed as an uplifting song but had a double meaning to me. This song was truly where the lie grew far beyond the point it could be taken back. It felt less like you will be found ❤️ and more like YOU will be found. I find it incredibly interesting. Whenever it is used without the context I always feel like a kid who lied and had it get away from them. Loosing the reigns. That’s good writing to me ☺️
The funniest part to me about this movie is when Evan and his mother go into a hug at the end of that song it STRAIGHT UP looks like they're about to kiss but move last minute 😂😂😂 my buddy and I both looked at each other when we saw it in theaters and started busting out laughing LOL
Dear Evan Hansen holds a special spot for me. After hearing 'Waving through a window' I bawled my eyes out and realised I needed therapy. In a way, this music saved me. I do like the music and hope to see the musical in the future. But the book is a much better media how this story is told. The book has a storyline for Conner and deepens in his struggles.
Amanda I’m STILL waiting on that Alice and Bella video but this ones so good so far! I loved the musical and have been seeing a lot of hate for this movie so I’m curious to see your final opinion on this.
Evan with social anxiety: Tells lie after lie Me with Autism, OCD, and tendencies of social anxiety: Telling too much of the truth to the point where others would rather not hear it😂
*cries in stage show supremacy* Ok wait after hearing what they did with the ending I’m pleasantly surprised. I mean I’m still salty that they cut so many important songs, but having evan really own up to what he did online and then actually give something to the parents is a nice change.
Honestly the original musical meant so much to me because of how they talked about anxiety and how Evan couldn't really make friends. It was very important to me and when I heard the original evan would be in moive I got really excited. Seeing them cut out some of my favorite songs actaully made me sad. At least they tried
I originally found this musical through an animation of "Sincerely, Me," and it was back when I was going through a really tough depression. I remember liking Connor the best, in spite of him being constantly portrayed as a bad guy, because mentally ill people are often seen that way. I mean, mental illness can make people act in shitty ways, and while it isn't an excuse, it is an explanation of sorts, and I related a lot to him because of that. God knows I did and said things I wouldn't now, but at least I get the chance to be better. Connor didn't, because on the day he made the smallest effort to get better, he thought he was being played and committed suicide. And, personally, I like that the story doesn't have a perfect ending or perfect characters. It shows that the characters are people and I do think they did a good job at portraying what happens after someone takes their own lives: the guilt, blaming each other, the people who swear up and down that they were close to the deceased but weren't. Evan is absolutely a shitty person, but he was also sick. I think that, on top of everything, he was a bit of a pathological liar. I read the novels that the original screen writers of the musical published and I think that it's the best version of the story: we get more of Evan's internal monologues, we see that he does see how wrong he is to be doing things and yet he can't stop out of fear of the consequences, and there's even a bit where we find out Connor was gay and had an ex boyfriend. I thought that was a nice touch because it added to Connor's character instead of just making him a blank canvas for Evan to paint as he saw fit.
I agree, I always had issues with the musical and ever since I first heard the premise I thought, well that can’t end well! It does start on a rollercoaster where he was basically pushed into agreeing that they must have been friends. However, I feel that the reason he kept going at first, when he’s singing about their best day together, was because Evan took what had been his worst day (when he broke his arm), and turned it into his best day, even if it was fake. In a way, he did what his therapist wanted him to do through the letters. Fake it till you make it. He went way overboard with it for sure, but by erasing that day and turning it into something (fake) good, he basically erased all of his weakness and jumped into this “new him”. Ofc it all comes crashing down, but he comes out stronger. I’m not saying what he did was right, nor that it should be emulated or even praised.
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I mean, to be honest, Evan does face consequences... He loses the murphies, he loses zoe, he doesn't get into college, he actually loses everything... He was already at his bottom through the entire musical... What more could he face? Suicide? He loses everything and has to rebuild himself again from scratch... I think that's a pretty big consequence (not that I'm excusing his behaviour, merely explaining...
Thank you!! And I bet you the whole time he was lying it was just killing him inside. I have been in a situation like that before. Not lying about being friends with a dead kid, but I have lied because I was so uncomfortable and it just got worse and worse and it was killing me inside. Evan loses everything! And I hate when people say "he never had any consequences for his actions" well I have done something horrible multiple times and I didn't face "consequences" and it actually was better for me than being punished. I felt the mercy I had been given and it changed me.
My experience with this musical is loving the songs and reading the book. Which I loved and like… kind of had a lot of things that you wanted, like a lot more Conner and we get to learn so much more about him. It’s great and very depressing.
I mean it's not even slightly different framing that makes it messed up, just the idea of "guy who uses the fact family thinks he's their dead son's only friend and uses this opportunity to get closer to their daughter he wants to date" is just straight messed up. It got championed as a story that pushes to talk about mental health and end the stigma because of the sons suicide, Evans own depression, and songs like waving through a window and you will be found, but the core story is "boy exploits a greiving family to shag their daughter."
@@generalhorse493 that's a terrible comparison. Cinderella left to the ball herself because she wanted to. The prince happened to fall in love with her and getting married was a saving point
@𝘿!𝙘𝙠 Riding ǤƗяℓ Isabella 1. Anxiety does not equal sucking at lying 2. Evan doesn't create an intricate lie, he starts a small lie and then improv builds on it with each prying question, building it bigger and bigger. 3. He uses an element of truth in each part of the lie whether it's using what little he's learned about Connor or directly inserting his own experiences and wants. 4. The Murphys believe it because they wanted to believe it. They were after all the ones who created the lie in the first place and pushed it onto Evan.
I never quite understood they hype for the musical tbh, or honestly how it was some sort of advocation for mental illness awareness. Evan just was kind of a terrible person the entire show, and then his song when he gets caught is like “but I was so happy when I was lying to this grieving family to get their attention! I’m sad now! My life sucks!” Some of the songs were catchy but overall I was never into it the way so many people seemed to be.
I’m in the small group where I love the songs but the story and the character of Evan Hansen are the absolute worst part about it. I know what people are talking about when it comes with the topics of Suicide and Social Anxiety BUT THAT 👏🏻 DOESN’T👏🏻 WORK 👏🏻 when Evan goes along with this. Once it turned romantic with Zoe, it’s just like...dude even if you can’t let the lie go, DON”T GET ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED WITH HER based on that lie, just say you’re not into her! Like Asshole, That’s disgusting and sociopathic. If i was Evan I would just say to Zoe that “Hey I want to be honest with you. I really didn’t know your brother, it was all in the moment and i wanted to come clean. If you hate me, hate me I just want to be up front.” Or even just lie that he’s not into her, SOMETHING other than what amounts to getting someone to have sex with you under false pretenses.
I was really conflicted watching the movie too. The musical really helped me when I was going through a rough time and I still cried at several of the songs in the movie, but there are so many issues with the plot that make Evan hard to sympathize with. I felt I could relate to him in how he was feeling and his struggles with his mental health, but so many of his actions as the movie went on were borderline sociopathic. I don’t feel like it’s a good representation of people with severe anxiety and depression. In my opinion, the fact that he barely insisted to Connor’s parents that the note was not written by Connor just felt unrealistic. I do feel like his false story and lies brought some peace to both him and the Murphy family, but I feel like their reaction to finding out it was all a lie was also not realistic. I enjoyed watching the movie and I loved many of the songs (I agree with you about Sincerely, Me) but I still walked out of the theater conflicted.
I will tell you a lil something that made me connect with the story so deeply that... Yeah I feel Empathy with Evan (I watched the musical btw). When I was really young something horrible happened to me that scarred me for life, it still does. Since it happened when I was 12, it basically fucked me up for my complete teen years, absolutely destroyed, unable to make meaningful connections, afraid, alone and feeling miserable each and every day of my life. I thought of ending myself, I did hurt myself a little but I also envied people that were "hurting" and still made friends. I distinctly remember wishing, praying every night to have some kind of freakish accident, especially breaking my arm, just so I could fish out sympathy and make friends. It was a horrible moment, the true feelings of loneliness and how mentally, emotionally and morally broken you can end up being to wish, to try and relay in lies and pity just to feel... Human. But I understood this story coming from that, years later I watched the musical and I cried, in the middle of the show, because I was that person, I was willing to lie, to hurt myself, to create a bubble of expectations JUST to fill myself of... something. I have came out of that idea little by little, It has taken years, therapy and great friends who kept looking at me even when I was ready to finish it off. This story, for many might be a terror plot ready to happen. For me, it was reality at a point in my life. And I hope more people watch it, and get the other half of the message from it "You DON'T need to dwell in your misery to create pity" "You DON'T need to fish for sympathy or recognition" "You CAN reject these wrong choices and be okay, because you will be, because you will be found, first, by yourself and then by others" "You can be happy and your happiness will attract the people that wish to share it and increase it" "You can allow yourself to be alone until you are ready to move". I wish for anyone that has and had those secret wishes and wrong choices to be forgiven, to step up, learn, like Evan, like I did, to own up the mistake and give one step foward. Things will get amazing later, just hang in there, a bit longer.
I’ve only heard the original cast album, so I’ve never been 100% about what this was about. All I know is that the songs and music are top notch. Thanks to this synopsis, I think I’ll stick to the album, thanks. Too much “Idiot Plot”, for my taste.
Most of the songs are way worse in context. I listened to the OBC album and then saw the show and cringed my way through a bunch of my favourite songs.
Honestly the only other actor I would've been ok with playing Evan for the movie is Ben Levi Ross. His voice gave a similar feel that Ben Platt's had and he could easily pull off a 17-18 year old
What really balloons this entire progression of the story for me is it’s own myopic obsession in trying to have its cake, eat it too and sell it in both ways. The entire selling point of this story was Evan’s lie inspiring a lot of people to speak up against the issues of suicide but how that very lie within itself plays at the epicenter of how this was wrong to start with; I mean, yeah I get it: it’s a hopeful lie surrounding a serious situation…..but it’s still a decision that cost thousands of people their dignity, livelihoods or worse and makes Evan out to be really creepy and far from sympathetic; the bloody Cheetah Girls end up looking more sympathetic after this and they were ACTIVELY TRYING to get on your nerves! If this musical wanted to be as hopeful as it claims it is, it should’ve used its darker story to dissect that false sense of cheery optimism that plagues the rest of the plot and you know, commit to its promise. But by playing it safe, the story proceeds to gloss over the pathological choices Evan makes and refuses to get to the actual root of the problem, thus exercising more blatant emotional manipulation and taking the audiences affection for granted. P.S: BUT…..I will admit I’m having difficulty unhearing Sincerely, Me as well.
The Broadway show is kinda problemaic already so I'm not surprise this flop. And I totally agree that the problem with Ben Platt casting is the styling, I mean even the parents look younger than they are suposed to
Even with the efforts the movie made to improve the story. I still think overall it's problematic. It's still a movie about a guy who lies to a family who lost their son and creates a fake relationship with the dead boy. It's still a story about a guy who uses the lie to get close to that family, especially the sister, who's now forever confused about her feelings about her abusive brother that apparently she knew nothing about. It's still a story about a guy who inspires and helps other outcasts to not hide away from the world and to not give up...but off of a lie. A lie which reinvented a teenage boy who constantly was misunderstood and was never given a chance to tell his own story. Frankly it adds onto this new wave of teen media that promotes this completely unacceptable message of doing anything for your mental illness,, but seek professional advice and guidance on your mental state to improve it in a healthy setting...no matter how bat shit crazy and damaging it is.
Can we just talk about the music though? Pasek and Paul are amazing. Even in the midst of the incredibly awkward narrative with a lead you don’t really feel like rooting for, the songs do what they’re supposed to do and more. The emotional ones, which is the majority of them, hit HARD. Every single one could make you break down and cry
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
They shouldn't have got rid of "Anybody have a Map", because it introduces us to the dysfunctional Murphys, and "Good for You" actually showed Evan receiving comeuppance for his actions.
WHAT!??? !!!...WHY? WHAT WAS THE POINT OF CASTING AMY ADAMS? 😵☠️☠️☠️☠️
why have giselle herself in your movie if you're going to steal her big number ;_;
@@alejandrocervantes3624 That's....stupid. I mean, was it never planned or did they film it then cut it? Because that's idiotic.
They are not there?!!
good for you is pivotal to the story bc evan actually starts to receive consequences. why the hell did they take it out ugh
I think what this movie got wrong is that in the play, Evan is kind of the villain as well as the protagonist. A sympathetic villain, but a villain nonetheless. The movie cut out most of the character songs of the parents. The real heroes of the play are the two moms, they have the opening song and the biggest emotional range in the show.
Yeah like I feel many thought would make it more realistic an give him more real consequences than just people mad/hate you cause he forged fake emails and made up this whole story about his bully that committed suicide to get in with the younger sister he likes an kinda obsessed with [knowing things she was every surprised to think her own family/brother would know like her doing crosswords on back of cereal box]
"sympathetic"
True, true. I mean, for me (who relied on the tracks to know the story because I’m thousands of miles away from where the show is being staged and performed) the thing that made me really connect with the musical we’re the parents POVs because it helped me process my complicated relationship with my parents.
[And to some degree, also related to Connor. At least this one fanon version of him from the only DEH fic I ever read. Because I had a mood disorder that resulted in a lot of very angry outbursts, and I just connected with Connor more than I ever did Evan.]
He really isn’t that sympathetic dude
@@artemisfowldragon than you missed the point
Dude they got rid of the songs that show that Evan is doing wrong. This isn’t gonna end well.
Agreed, they should have kept "Good for You", since it shows how everyone around Evan suffers from his Web of lies, not just him.
They also cut Anybody Have a Map?, one of the shortest musical numbers that also manages to perfectly encapsulate each character before we spend any real time with them. I'll never understand that choice.
Literally!!
@@trinaq Good For You's one of my favorite songs in the musical, it sucks that they cut that out!!
@@trinaq Why would they cut that song out? Like not only is it important for character, its also a banger
I think Heathers somehow ended up having a healthier message about suicide than Dear Evan Hansen by saying no matter what, nobody (especially not teenagers) deserves to die for the dumb shit they do when they're growing up and too scared to admit how broken they are.
🎶Teenage suicide
Don't do it🎶
And ironically Heathers was an amazing movie *before* it was a musical.
I think the movie is better than the musical but yeah
@@lucapeyrefitte6899 Same.
@@lucapeyrefitte6899 yes but the tracksound has real bangers.
Jared wasn’t exactly an angel in the musical, but they make him a borderline psychopath in the movie
BRILLIANT!
I love him in the movie
@@notactuallywill3620 lol I love the actor, he’s great in atypical if you haven’t seen it!
Even Conner was a terrible person that abused his sister and others around him but we’re supposed to feel for him because he killed himself. I personally don’t care if an asshole is suicidal. The sister is the only good character.
@@witchplease9695 Well, in the movie Zoe is a good character, but in the musical, she's not a great person, either. Also, it's unclear whether or not Connor was *actually* a bad person, since we only get to know him from Zoe's point of view.
I was never really comfortable with the storyline. Evan basically lies to a grieving family for his own personal gain, and only feels guilty because they start getting Internet hate. And afterwards, he doesn't really receive any reprucussions.
Yeah....also can't get 9ver how creepy it is he uses Conners death to try slid in to "be there for her" when his real end game was to date the little sister. Like ...geeze.....maybe he would have been friend if weren't so creepy. Like how he know she did puzzles on back cereal unless watches her in morning???
Same. I hated the plot so much I couldn't finish it. The main character is *such* a shitty person.
I have some friends that love theater, like Hamilton and stuff like that. But when they told me about the plot for this one, I could feel myself getting progressively more uncomfortable the more I thought about it.
@@owenmaleski2203 I also had some friends really into theatre who explained the plot to me and kept saying "But when you explain the bare bones of the musical it sounds really bad but it's actually super heart warming and wholesome!" Nah, the lead character's actions are just really bad.
I thought the play was extremely realistic. A grieving family is desperately trying to find a reason why their son killed themselves. They search for a formal letter Evan wrote himself was all they found. As a man woth severe anxiety and depression, I thought it was a realistic response to avoid causing that family more pain and suffering. Hell, I would probably do the same if in that situation.
Edit: I also think because it was so realistic that it's hard for us to connect to it. We feel betrayed as we can see ourselves fall victim to it.
I liked this musical when I was a teenager and when it came out, but always saw it as a cautionary tale of living in a lie and living a life that is not yours. It was always weird to me when people saw Evan as sympathetic and as a victim.
Precisely, the storyline always unsettled me somewhat. Evan lies to and exploits a grieving family for his own personal gain, and doesn't confess until they start getting heckled online. And even afterwards, he doesn't really suffer any lasting consequences, bar not getting Zoe, or into college.
I think he starts out sympathetic because you can understand how someone would believe that continuing this lie could make the parents of a dead child happy and the charity work it leads too. It isn't until the second act of the musical that the alarm bells went for me- taking Conner's college money as if you deserve an award and trying to be romantically involved with a girl based on lies?? Eww.
Also "For Forever" is a great song but in hindsight it comes off gross when you realise that this is when the seed is plated in Evan's mind that he could do this to make himself feel better, not making the family's well-being a priority (which is likely the intention of the song but I don't think they realise the true extent of how villainous it comes off as upon rewatch).
I agree with Amanda that the original ending is way worse because it doesn't feel like Evan had to face his actions or work to fix them as much.
Agreed.
I mean you can see him as sympathetic and in the wrong I don't know why he has to be either or
Relating to people doing bad things scares people too much
It is a cautionary tale, and Evan is someone I can sympathize with while at the same time understanding that what he did was wrong. He didn't do anything out of malice, but even so his actions caused a lot of hurt to those around him, and even to his own mental health.
Ultimately, the character is a teenager and what we want is for teens to learn from their mistakes rather than villinize them forever. It is implied he faced the consequences of his actions "off-screen" in the musical, and I think it's because the aim of the creators of the show was one of compassion and understanding.
"They almost kissed at the end of that" Oh nooooooooooooooo don't watch the Broadway show
yo your video was great
Oh my gosh it's the funny tomato crab guy
It's the Crab!!!!!
Yeahhhhhhhh…
Schaff!!!!!!
I think it’s funny that Ben Platt defended his casting by saying the movie wouldn’t have happened without him, and the majority of the negative reception this movie got was because of him.
Like, I feel you can defend it only so hard until you remember that his dad is literally the president of production for Universal. So maybe he could've curbed some of that defensiveness, lol
@@TheNumnutRandomness Nepotism kids are always the most defensive with the most inflated sense of their contributions.
@@squidthing “my father will hear about this!”
@@thethrowawaythatstayed7055 mans harnessed his inner Draco
@@andreascott8150 Please list the reasons you disagree aside from liking Ben Platt.
"fans of the musical might be happy that ben is reprising the role" nope, in fact i would say we are the most disappointed ones because we've gotten to see so many different Evans in the broadway production that would have deserved the role just as much if not more. This is not an attack towards Ben, but he does look out of place in a highschool setting and it takes a lot of people away from the movie when he interacts with other characters.
I said this to a friend who LOVES this musical and she said “anyone who cares about it wouldn’t want anyone else” 🥴 I obviously disagree
i didn't even want a movie to start with, i wanted a pro-shot, life would be better if they released more pro-shots
I would have LOVED to see Jordan Fisher (i really don't know other actor of Evan Hansen so sorry ahhsha I'm not that big of a fan)
@@juanitaparpandacute3511 tbh Jordan Fischer would also be too old for the role. Andrew Barth Feldman would have been perfect because he’s still an actual teen
YES!! his response was so out of touch and entitled. it was so dismissive of every other actor who played evan (his own boyfriend included), and the rest of the OBC
Why did this fail?
1. Obviously, thinking a 27 years old passing for a teenager worked on stage so it can work for a movie.
2. Removing the songs that actually showed Evan in the wrong.
3. Off that, falling for the "misaimed fandom" that Evan is a nice guy helping the family with this scheme" rather than how bad it is.
4. Another case of a show that works finer on the stage but falters as an actual film.
Precisely. They should have cast one of the younger show Evans, namely Andrew Barth Feldman, in the movie. While Ben was wonderful in the role on stage, the make up and hair choices make him look more 37 than 27!
@@trinaq After I saw the trailer I continuously thought "oh god, I really hope they do a better job de-aging him in the final movie", knowing that THAT was their attempt... that's almost as bad as the initial Sonic design from the Sonic the Hedgehog movie that came out last year. What a big Yikes. To ALSO hear they cut out incredibly pivotal songs just makes me sad.
I totally agree they made him look older if anything. For me that is the main reason I never wanted to see this. The singing in the trailer made me cry though very beautiful
Also they change around lyrics , especially in Sincerely Me "the only man that I love is my dad"
i'm gonna be honest i think they tried to show evan in a more positive light because they didn't realize how insane he was in the original musical and instead of steering into having a villain protagonist they went "shit let's backpeddle a little on this guy"
which obviously does not work because there's no rewriting of his character, just extra shit
I think the fact that Ben Platt looks so old plays a big part in not being able to root for Evan. In the musical, Evan's actions still aren't excusable, but they can be downplayed because he's young. But when he looks like a 30-year-old, that doesn't work.
Huge mood
Exactly, you can get away with casting older actors on stage, but in film, with close ups, and the make up and hair choices, this makes Evan look older than he really is.
This! Plus, you throw in a Zoe who looks like she could actually be a teenager and you have an adult man taking advantage of a family's grief to get with their teenage daughter.
dude he looks wayyyy older than 30 in the movie...
@@AthynVixen true, i was actually suprised to find out he was 27, not like 35+
Can we talk about how Evan "My Social Anxiety is So Bad I Can't Even Order a Pizza for Myself" Hansen is able to create a false, intricate narrative ON THE SPOT in order to appease the Murphys? There's suspension of disbelief; then there's this.
I mean i also have rly bad social anxiety and sometimes i manage to do stuff like that too
To be honest, it isn't that unbelievable. He doesn't want to disappoint them. People with social anxiety will go to insane lengths just to avoid the source of their anxiety; I should know, I have it.
@@Tay-ge2gf I've struggled with social anxiety in the past, but what I mean to highlight here is the bad writing. I haven't seen the movie, but what stuck out to me in the stage show was that Evan was comedically incompetent -- he felt more like a caricature than someone we could sympathize with, let alone relate to. He can't hold a conversation with Zoe to save his life ("no way....... José" being played for laughs), and his first encounter with the Murphys -- when he's first asked to talk about his "relationship" with Connor -- starts off with him saying, "We met at the.... /spies bowl of apples on the table/ apples....... place." And of course Cynthia knows what he means right away because the plot called for it. It's just a tad clunky that, a minute later, he's speaking (singing) with perfect clarity and articulation -- not to mention detail -- about something that never actually happened.
The audience is meant to laugh AT Evan instead of with him, except for when we're expected to sympathize with him. But the writers can't have their cake and eat it too, and as such, we're rewarded with a show that's so tone-deaf and horribly written that I'm surprised more audience members didn't get whiplash trying to follow along.
@@TumbleFourYa I understand where you are coming from, I definitely think that DEH is problematic and fails in multiple aspects (like the majority of media that tries to depict mental illness) and his social anxiety being played for laughs does make me uncomfortable. But I think that it would be unfair to the stage play to not take the constraints of the medium in mind, most characters from musicals feel like caricatures bcs of multiple factors, like the fact that they do break into song, something that most people do not tend to do. I wanted to make it clear that Evan still sucks for making the emails up tho, for example!
What I meant in my original comment is that social anxiety does not necessarily make you unable to lie, at one point mine was so bad that i couldn't hold a conversation with a stranger, and going along with a lie even if coming clean would benefit me much more in the long run was something I did (definitely not to the scale of what Evan did tho).
That's not to say that everybody who experiences social anxiety feels the same way as I tho!
And Connor's mom believing him could be seen as a grieving mother desperate to hold on to any part of her son whom she felt that she wronged (which is a big theme in the musical lol). In the end i think that so many folks enjoy the show bcs it *does* depict anxiety and depression, even if not perfectly ( actually far from perfectly ). Sorry if my English is a bit messy rn, I have a headache >.>
@@Tay-ge2gf Your English is fine! :)
I get what you're saying, but that doesn't change the fact that the tone of the show is glaringly inconsistent. There are better ways it could've been tackled. Take Be More Chill, for example. It also deals with depression and anxiety -- though not explicitly stated -- and feels grounded and real although it's a largely sci-fi plot. The characters are believable and well-rounded. Hell, Michael only really gets one moment to shine, and the majority of the fandom sympathizes with him more than Jeremy!
Even something like Phantom is better handled than DEH. It's obviously a very different plot, but it's super telling that the majority of the audience sympathizes with Erik, despite the fact that he's a psychopath and murderer. A huge chunk of Phantom fans actually want him to end up with Christine! In a show that uses angels as a plot device and has a character who's a master magician and ventriloquist -- who occasionally can throw balls of fire -- the antagonist still feels real and human despite the high melodrama of it all. To a point, we can understand his motives and even pity him. That's something I never got with Evan. I cried during Words Fail, but it was because of the Murphys and their heartbreak; I never once felt bad for Evan and actually wished he'd gotten more of what was coming to him.
DEH has potential, and maybe if I were the intended age demographic instead of someone who's super removed from high school, I would've "gotten it." But as it stands, it's never read to me as anything more than an incompetent first draft.
I'm not a huge fan of Evan Hansen, I thought even the musical was a bit...cringey. However, cutting "Good for You" really hurt the story. At least showed people were angry with Evan...if anything, I was hoping they gave Evan MORE consequences than the musical, but they did the opposite. Be skippin' this one I think =/.
All of the songs they cut legitimately harmed the story in so many ways
Yeah like I feel many thought would make it more realistic an give him more real consequences than just people mad/hate you cause he forged fake emails and made up this whole story about his bully that committed suicide to get in with the younger sister he likes an kinda obsessed with [knowing things she was every surprised to think her own family/brother would know like her doing crosswords on back of cereal box]
Like how can they spin it to try force him be someone we all resonate with. Feel they tried make him more the "poor shy guy" who got bullied only to finally be seem after his bully commits suicide. An all that followed wasn't him being a bad guy just a teenager desperate for attention an be seen. Desperate get the girl he likes to notice an like him a. That just happens be lil sister of his bully......
Nvm how he treated his mother
Nvm guy may have bullied him for creeping on his LITTLE sister.
Nvm him legit trying replace his dead bully to get family he wants an date the sister
Like just ewe NO
He should at LEAST be suspended for using a suicide to manipulate the masses all so he can get the attention and [just maybe] the girl cause if she all sad about her dead brother Conner then easy him slide in and step up an get a kiss like uggggghhhhhhhhh
They really taking this sympathetic villain thing too far the more an more they do it.
@@sleeplessknight2260 Agreed, I just thought Good For You was the most obvious I suppose. When I heard they cut it, I was like, the basically consequences/others at least admonishing him song?! I could even get past the lead looking 40, heck they did it in Rent as well, but it just...made an already iffy story into straight sociopathy (or whatever the true term is). Though I don't like the story of Evan Hansen, love the music, but I'll stick with the soundtrack...
One HUGE reason why they didn't give Evan more consequences is because the reasonable result of which would have been his own suicide.
Awww my favorite song :(
Oh my god BEN looks like a TEACHER. They should’ve just hired another super talented performer who has played Evan somewhere, like the show on tour, to spread the love. They did not need to cause distraction by how old Platt clearly is and trying to de-age him.
I love the songs so much, but I don’t love the story. That’s rare for me with musicals.
I think Jordan fisher was doing the role around the time pandemic hit and he’s been realistically playing a teen in all the “to all the boys” movies even though he’s only a year younger- I feel like he might have been a better choice but I guess if they botched the screenplay adaptation maybe it was just doomed to fail
He could've played a teacher as a nice little nod to fans
There were also Andrew Barth Feldman or Roman Banks who are both still very young and played Evan on Broadway. I mean Andrew was 16 when he first started his run. That would’ve been perfect.
could have been a remake... "Never Ben Kissed".
They literally could've just gotten Jordan Fisher who was supposed to be the the new Evan Hansen in the revival that never got to happen because of COVID.
(I share a last name with Jordan Fisher, but I promise there is no relation. Just making the point here where's it's relevant)
I find it hilariously ironic that the main actor’s wig and makeup was clearly meant to make him look younger when it actually does the exact opposite. Like, he’s 27, but he looks 37 if not 40!
Connors actor is 27, so I'm not sure why so many people complained about just Ben, and I think it was semi-believable that it was close to being a high schooler. It didn't bug me much during the movie
@@smoothcolors9257 im also NOT buying that Connor either btw👀☠️🔔🥪
i don’t think anybody in these comments have ever seen a forty year old man before if you think that ben platt looks forty years old 😳
@@smoothcolors9257 I think people just didn't complain as much about Connor because he's not in a huge portion of the movie, while Evan looking like he's 30 affects how the audience will perceive what is supposed to be the actions of a scared and confused teenage boy.
All I can think of is that scene in that one thing where Steve Buscemi is dressed up as a teen from the 00s being like "HELLO FELLOW TEENAGERS!"
I always liked that Evan wasn't redeemed in the musical. At the end of it all we only see his mom sticking with him despite what he's done, and that always felt like the ultimate consequence for what he's done. Winding up more alone than ever, but finally having the chance to actually get better.
I never saw the meeting with Zoe at the end as a forgiveness, but as a sister who finally made peace with her brothers death. And finally sitting down with the guy who tampered with his memory was a big part of that.
So the Broadway musical’s author /creator states this was based on a real life occurrence that happened at his school. I think what makes this movie different than the play is that we get this redemption arc for Evan while in the play there isn’t one. He is never forgiven and he honestly shouldn’t be. We can try to make amends all we want and the people we’ve hurt don’t have to forgive us. I think people are reacting to it the same way people react to Lolita where they miss the fact the author is telling you “this main character is a monster and this is a cautionary tale please do not sympathise with the protagonist even though he has a mental illness”.
Fully agree
So many people miss the point of media because they are only seeing things at the surface level. Lolita is go show how monsters will justify their actions.
@@ayajade6683 even the narrator’s tragic back story was taken from Edgar Allen Poe’s Annabel Lee, so we know this guy is an unreliable narrator.
This show is not comparable to Lolita. DEH is manipulative trash whose success was predicated on the fact that it expected people to sympathize with Evan’s supposed social anxiety. A story with an unreliable narrator wouldn’t have the half-hearted attempts at calling out the main character that DEH has. It’s poorly written trash. Any attempts to claim an unreliable narrator are just desperate attempts at justification by fans.
@@dumbumbumbum8649 yikes. Can you get anymore salty? Either way, I respectfully disagree.
Not to harp on the age thing, but like a few people have said, when a person looks younger we, as an audience, are more willing to make excuses for them because their youth is apparent and we know that maybe one day they'll grow out of it, but given how Ben Platt doesn't have that youthful look, it just puts a bigger spotlight on the dickish things his character does.
Ben Platt has always given me that Lea Michelle over acting wonder kid confidence type and when I learned who his dad was his career made sense to me lol
I get these Vibes as well but I have no idea Who his Dad is...
@@sweetlilnymphii7267 the producer of botht the show and movie 👀
He was fun in Pitch Perfect and didn’t seem to take himself too seriously back then. Perhaps his recent successes have affected him negatively.
To be fair, that's because you're *supposed* to be "exaggerated" in stage. So they're playing stage, but on film
its gross
I vote we stop making film adaptations of musicals and just start freaking making the live recordings available on streaming! I love a movie musical but it has to be made with it being a movie in mind for it to work, IMO.
I don’t know why recording and releasing pro-shots of Broadway shows isn’t more common. It mostly retains the magic and intimacy of the stage performance, it allows fans without the budget for or proximity to Broadway to truly experience the show, and it cuts down on illegal filming and bootlegs.
Honestly there are some Broadway musicals that worked as a film, the thing is not every Broadway musicals is a good idea to adapt it into a film
@@800Ms-k6n Hairspray is a good example. They adapted it into a movie very well. I can’t think of many others
@@KingOfGaymes In The Heights, Mamma Mia, Chicago, West Side Story (both the 1961 and the recent 2021), Les Miserables, Annie, My Fair Lady, Sound of Music, The Prom, Grease, these are all great, decent and entertaining Broadway adaptations
@@KingOfGaymes The musical was based off of a John Waters comedy which came out in 1988. This probably made it easier to adapt the musical into a film later on.
as a fan of the stage version, or was, I am so annoyed that ben platt was the one they casted, and I get his dad is producing it, but the way he acted like it was his right to have this role above anyone else, made me feel so icky. also, if they were gonna cast a stage evan, they could’ve tried for andrew barth feldman, who actually looks like a high schooler.
side note, you said it had to be a wig, I can indeed confirm it is not
This is so true... I wanted a fresh cast and was seriously disappointed that Ben Platt was the one playing it on screen. I get it that he's like a titular evan hansen, but even theater cast changes.
Nepotism looks like it is still alive and well…
Pride does come before the fall, and it did feel like Ben was mutton dressed as lamb.
I get that people want to hold onto their glory days, but at what cost…
yeah or they could've even gotten Jordan Fisher if they wanted an actor with more experience
Andrew Barth Feldman was 16 when he was cast as Evan Hansen and was the youngest leading "man" ever on Broadway. He played the role for a year, from January 2019 to January 2020. The movie of *Dear Evan Hansen* began shooting in August, 2020, when Andrew was 18. Today (May 7, 2022) happens to be Andrew's 20th birthday.
@@justalula7151 Ironically, Jordan Fisher is exactly the same age as Ben Platt.
“Maybe we just don’t do that.” This caption had me cackling before I even clicked on the video 😂
Same
so the movie makes a weird implication that the letter Connor finds might have played a partial role in his eventual s*icide. why wouldn't the movie then emphasize that the reason Evan doesn't come clean is because he doesn't want Connor's family to make that same assumption (and/or he doesn't want to make that assumption for himself)? like that would've given the movie virtually the same plot it just could have potentially come off as more sympathetic and less "i'm getting close to you all for my own selfish reasons"-y.
I’ve never heard that interpretation before, but yes!! Connor could have really identified with Evan’s letter and killed himself right after. Strange that it’s never explored.
Making it a friendship rather than a romance with the sister he's had a crush on forever would have helped big time to with the selfishness department too
@@khaxjc1 To be fair, a crush you have on someone doesn't just evaporate simply because they lost a family member.
@@cthulhutheendless1587 i interpreted OPs idea more as Evan thinking that Connor assuming the letter was another mean prank was the straw that broke the camel's back and he was afraid of them blaming him
As someone with both anxiety and depression, Dear Evan Hansen (the musical) was instrumental for me growing up and working through some of my own issues. I never once agreed with Evan on what he was doing, but I sympathized with him so much to the point that I started to recognize some of his qualities as things I saw in myself. And I think that's the point of the musical. Can we sympathize with someone who has done something terrible and try to understand him?
This movie proves that with slight reframing, the story completely falls apart. Even if this was a 1:1 retelling that didn't exclude such pivotal moments from the play, I don't think it would've worked as a film (mostly because 40-year-old Ben Platt is still really distracting). The set design of the play is filled with all these screens that reflect the inner monologue and feelings of Evan. It gives us a much better understanding of his thoughts and feelings at the moment. The story is far from perfect, but with a subject as complex as mental health, extra care needed to be taken to make its message very clear the way the musical did. Otherwise, the whole plot just becomes a complete mess.
TL;DR: Can we please stop making film adaptations of musicals?
I'd like to tweak that to "can we stop making Live Action film adaptations of musicals?"
Animation can actually properly carry over the more impressionist elements of musicals, and then some! :D
with adult animation slowly rising in sophistication and quality, I hope we someday get a great animated musical for an older audience.
@TindraSan How about handdrawn only? CGI just can't do what handdrawn 2D animation can.
@@TindraSan absolutely! they both require suspension of disbelief and maybe that way people wont feel uncomfortable with the idea of people singing and dancing instead of talking. Sadly I think director are producers are obsessed with a 'naturalistic' look of movie musicals that is overly serious and kind of apologetic for being a musical.
@@Keznen Nah, CGI can do certain stylistic things too, it's just that not a lot of studios do enough. Sony Animation is the main ones who do very good stylistic animation comparable to 2D. I think the "ideal" style for people who say these kinds of things would be something like Disney's Paperman, where it's 3D animation stylized to look 2D
Ben Platt is actually 27. But yeah I'm 39 and he looks older than me
Do I think Evan (from the musical) is a villain? Yes. Do I think he's sympathetic? Yes. Do I think what he did was okay? NO! Do I think he should have faced consequences for his actions? 1000%
Edit: Honestly, I feel like it would have been interesting if their was a story about Connor, starting with us knowing he committed suicide and seeing his family's and other people's reactions, then slowly piecing his life together. It would show his flaws, his triumphs, how he affected people, and even if in the end it circles back to his death, it could show an important message about mental health. Even though Connor hated himself and life, he was worth saving, and his life was worth living.
That's definitely the main problem with the movie, the musical doesn't let you forget that Evan while not a bad person, is definitely the bad guy in this situation. The movie tries to soften it so he doesn't look that bad by making sure we don't really see what everyone else is thinks about the situation.
The book actually goes a bit deeper into Connor himself!
youre describing 13 reasons why
@@ghostmemeboi It's a similar concept, but I don't think Connor would have left any explanation behind, nor would he show up again in scenes where he isn't alive in what I imagined. But I haven't really watched 13 Reasons Why because I've heard less then stellar things, so idk
I know this is really not the point, but I love your Anna von Kleve profile photo.
People with depression: Yeah, you can adapt this for film. Just don't make it exploitative.
Hollywood: *It's free real estate.*
IT’S A FEEL GOOD MOVIE THAT’LL WIN ALL THE OSCARS!!!!
@Branden Mclendon this is sarcasm, right...
@@hicsuntdracones9065 Yeah, it is.
@@brandonmclendon5368 good good i just wanted make sure so I knew all hope wasn't lost in humanity
epicdragon girl 😂
Amanda, I'd suggest releasing the entire "trailer recut as a thriller" as a solo piece, the hits will be astronomical. It's going to happen anyway, might as well get ahead of it!
I just wish it wasn't playing off of the same content other channels do as there's already multiple channels that switch trailer genres like this. If Amanda is going to be playing around with new ideas like this I'd love to see her do something more original!
Yes pleeease
Dear Evan Hansen: The Jedicut
@nicanonymous9023 which TH-camrs change movie trailers to different genres?
I disagree with people saying Evan is a just a flawed character. Standing on a dead body to raise yourself up is more than flaws.
I have pretty bad social anxiety, but I couldn’t comprehend doing something like this. That’s Evan’s own thing 🥴
Fucking THANK YOU
@@raindropsonroses3919 I'm pretty sure nobody with social anxiety would "whoops I'm an internet star"
@@raindropsonroses3919 I have social anxiety as well and I just hate how it is portrayed in this musical. The only thing I related to was Waving Through a Window. But it seems like they missed the mark on a lot of other stuff.
Evan is a villain in the story. Good for you laid that out very clearly
as an avid of enjoyer of the musical, I have no problems with them sticking in a man into a highschool, whatever, but taking out a lot of the songs that show how what Evan is doing isn't okay, and how he shouldn't be praised for it, really puts you as the viewer on his side, which you shouldn't be. they also took out a ton of the best songs :/
Haven't seen the movie yet but I was lucky enough to see the musical live right before Covid hit and to hear that any of the songs were cut makes me question if this is worth the price of admission. What songs got cut if you don't mind me asking because you're right, Evan is NOT supposed to be a praiseworthy character. Pitiable at best, maybe sympathetic, but definitely not praiseworthy.
@@jeremygilbert7989 Good For You, Does Anybody Have A Map, To Break In A Glove
@@DoveCalderwood they took out Good For You!? That is arguably the best song on the soundtrack and shows how his lies have started affecting everyone else and how he's struggling with how far it's gone, what dimwit took that out
@@jennalove and it also really showed how even though he was "putting himself before others" he didn't care how it hurt or effected the others in that situation, especially his mom. then he just expects forgiveness form her.
@@DoveCalderwood Jesus. All important songs, especially Good For You. Of all songs to cut that one especially should never have been an option.
Here's how I saw Connors meltdown:
He didn't actually think he was being set up. He was lashing out hoping someone would see he wasn't well, and help him.
I sincerely think it was a cry for help.
@Bardenbella120 would you mind expanding on this a little more? Like, why Evan?
I didn’t think about like that but it makes soooooo much sense
@@WaitinInAmber he didn't go to Evan to help. He lashed out in the hope that someone would stop him or do something, he then bought drugs and overdosed. But before this, he texted his best friend/boyfriend (they had a complicated relationship) Miguel who he hadn't contacted in a few months due to an argument Connor had with Miguel. He wrote "I miss you" and Miguel didn't respond as he was at work. When he got back from work, he tried to call but Connor had already passed and he only found out that he passed via facebook and the Connor project. Miguel caught onto what Evan was doing, lying, but didn't say anything as he was glad that Connor was getting the recognition he deserved. "Connor, he just... I've never met someone like that. That innocent. That pure. Sometimes I think maybe he was too pure... for all this."
@@greysonholtz oh wow that is heartbreaking. Thank you for sharing!!!
Oh absolutely!! I really like this take, makes more sense!!
In the book he literally had a boyfriend and what brought him to suicide was his boyfriend not picking up in time. His bf literally finds Evan at the end of the book too and tells him that he knew e was lying because Connor was nothing like the emails. Honestly I wish they would’ve added that to the movie.
I love the book way more than the musical and movie. Honestly after the book it makes the musical look kinda bad.... at least in my opinion. Like getting Connor's perspective as well made me love the book so much more. I wish they kept more things in the musical then they took even more out of the movie. It fucking sucks honestly....
It's because the order was Musical -> Book -> Movie, the book is based on the musical, not the other way around. The people involved in the movie also were different to the ones writing the book, so it makes sense they didn't include Miguel (the boyfriend op mentioned). I'd also argue that having a secret person that has known Connor kind of defeats the point. No one knew Connor and no one will get to know him because he died and it's supposed to be sad, it's supposed to be a tragedy that he died so young
I'm gonna cry over this oh my god whyy😭
It's gonna be weeks before I get 'Sincerely, Me' out of my head - but also watch to the end for a lil fake trailer treat
EDIT OCT 26 - Just donated $2654 to The Kids Help Phone with the ad revenue from this video, thanks for watching
My sisters hot
What the hell
Did you post this before? Istg I've seen this vid before
Likewise, Sincerely Me is the best song in the musical, and they did it justice here!
Re! In! Vent! Ion!
that fake trailer gave me the chills ☠️
There was a song called 'Part of Me' that was cut from the musical where everyone talks about how, in losing someone, they lost a part of themselves. It showcases how the line between genuine grief and making someone's death about yourself can be so thin that it's at times invisible. At that point in the show's development, Connor was more like an actual ghost, watching everyone use his death for their own ends. It's eerie when he chimes in at the end to sing _"a part of me..."_ Ultimately, they changed tack, cut the darker stuff, and, when "Connor" appears in the musical, he's a manifestation of the devil on Evan's shoulder and not actually Connor Murphy. I think they should've leaned into the original approach.
I knew it wasnt gonna be "interesting" when they got rid of anybody have a map and good for you
Haven’t seen the movie yet but WHAT!?
I watched the broadway show after seeing the movie and I understand why they switched up the songs for the progression the movie takes with the story
@@AmandaTheJedi But was it a good choice to take the movie in another direction?
To me, the musical always made clear that Evan isnt a good guy, and acted out of his own suffering and resulting dellusion.
Basicly all critics i heard until now make him out t be a creepy guy who manipulates a families grief to f*** their daughter.
I love Good For You 😭 its so gorgeous and powerful!!
The first time I dive into Dear Evan Hansen I did it because TH-cam recommended “Sincerely me” and it caught my attention, I went totally blinded into the musical, butI had the idea that it might be about Evan involved in this situation with Connor’s parents and make all of the fake emails BECAUSE somehow Evan was able to see and talk with Connor’s ghost and he was helping him with unsolved issues or something like that.
Needless to say I was very wrong
That would be such a cool story........your mind.......
When I first saw songs from it, i also assumed Evan was a medium talking to Connor's ghost. The actual story took me by surprise
Yup, I saw a fan animation of the song and thought that too!
i find this hilarious as i was thinking just recently how Sincerely Me could work for a character who's a medium
also i just love this interpretation of the plot. like can someone make this a real thing 👀 (along w the horror idea, that's great too)
Same 😭
You see Good for You was the emotional consequences that Evan had to face but they cut that song huh-
I don’t know what they did to his face, but it looks like he’s wearing a crazy mask. He looked fine in pitch perfect and the most recent stuff he’s done. They could’ve just kept him like that. I’d rather an old looking Ben Platt than some creepy prosthetics.
YES YES it’s like he’s wearing prosthetics 😂😂😂 Right?
@@passiveagressive4983 it’s like they added baby fat to his face or something. The scene at the end where he’s crying and about to climb the tree…I’m like “omg why is his head sooo big and his body is so small”
@@xotennisxgirlox 👍🏾
he looks like dennis reynolds 💀
The musical also sucks at framing Evan as a bad person because all the songs and moments showing it place the emphasis of the tragedy on Evan, not the family he manipulated.
I’m so happy someone else pointed this out, I felt like I was going slightly crazy. I really wished that Conner was addressed more because I feel like he’s the type of person that people don’t paint as a victim of s*. Conner doesn’t fit the normal profile and as such his death seems less tragic for those around him.
It hurts my heart to think about.
I don’t think so. I thought that it was pretty clear that the musical showed us how he used other people for his own gain, was in the wrong and hurt them.
I think ‘Good For You’ captured that and the scenes, where he treats his Mom, Alana and his friend badly, also the one were he understood that he is wrong (his last talk with “Connor” I think ). Even though, when he realised, he thought everyone would understand and forgive him, because he wasn’t able to take the truth.
I thought that the musical wanted to show us his deep rooted pain and struggles, in order for us to be able to sympathise with him, but additionally it’s still showing us, how wrong he was. I also don’t think that it was the goal to deem him as just a bad person, since he is a teenager he has still room to grow and better himself.
In my opinion, it was about his growth and how he learned his lesson from the start, not Connors family.
Nevertheless, I do think that more emphasis on Connor as a character could have been interesting.
I agree with everything but the Conner point. The thing with Conner is, is that we're not supposed to know him. It's essentially put us in the real world situation of "This kid seems interesting and fun, doesn't he? Well too bad you'll never get to know him now, he's gone" it kinda adds more tragedy imo.
Im gonna say this (havent seen the movie yet):
Just about every character in the musical is like,,,,bad and sucks
Literally the only character who didnt actively push the lies and bullshit about connor was heidi.
Evan started the lie due to his anxiety and continued it
The murphy family becomes obsessed with the fake connor
Jared antagonized evan into continuing the lie and actively helped him in making shit up
ALANA ESSENTIALLY TOOK OWNERSHIP OVER THE CONNOR PROJECT AND POSTED WHAT SHE THOUGHT WAS SOMEONES SUICIDE NOTE BECAUSE IT STOPPED GETTING ATTENTION. EVERYONE FORGETS THAT.
I haven’t seen the movie too, just the stage version, but actually liked that almost all the characters are flawed. They are scared, hurt, scarred and try to seek and ease the pain they are feeling, but in unhealthy ways, just like people in the real world sometimes do when they are desperate. Sometimes they take drastic measures, without thinking about everyone else and only their gain. It’s scary, uncomfortable, but in my opinion realistic. I liked that they also all do have qualities that can make them good or sympathetic, contrasting their inexcusable actions and flaws.
Thank you so much for talking about Alana
I feel like no one ever talks about how shitty and selfish she is
@@DasTretminchen Completely agree!
that’s why i love the musical so much. every character is fucked up in their own way. not every piece of media has to be a morality piece. it’s not about who’s doing the ‘right’ thing. they’re just all amoral little shits trying to claw their way through this shitty situation. and like what’s more human than that?
@@DasTretminchen see this part i loved about the musical and i wish the focus it got from fans was this and not the whole thing about it being this super uplifting take on mental health or whatever (not to shit on anyone the musical did help, i just feel like it Should Not be getting praise for how it treated mental illness)
So in other words he’s the male version of Netflix’s “Sierra Burgess”. Got it 👍🏽
Except that he never actually assaulted anyone. And except for the fact that he doesn't get what he wanted in the end. And except for the fact that he admitted the truth in order to save this family's reputation, not because he was caught, and had no other way out. But other than that, I can see the comparison, as both protagonists lie a lot in order to be closer to their love interests, and feel invisible otherwise.
So the actor is 27, that's not old. How did they make this guy look like he's pushing 40 with a high stress job?
I'm guessing bad close-up shots, a wig, and lots of film makeup, none of which were really necessary to make him look "younger".
I’ve always had a soft (?) spot for Connor and what you said about his suicide is something I’ve never thought of before. I hate how much sense it makes because it makes it even more sad
Huge same. My sister brought the idea up to me after she watched the show for the first time and I was like..hold up...brb crying all over again....
RIGHT
A big thing I've learned lately is that apparently, a lot of casual fans of dear even hansen did not come away with the right idea about evan's actions and it's so wild to me. This is just my experience but in the dedicated fandom spaces I was in (deh was a hyperfixation of mine for,, too long) everyone was very clear about the whole like, evan is a sympathetic villain thing. People did mostly disregard that for fan content, as they do, but when talking about the actual show we were all on the same page about the way it kinda does the "frog in boiling water" thing where you just watch everything getting worse and worse under this uncomfortable veneer of like, oh look at this great thing we're doing! Like dramatic irony used to an uncomfortable degree, since evan also knows what the audience knows.
But then when the movie started being advertised I started seeing so many people talking about how they thought evan's actions were condoned or endorsed in the text, and that a lot of people straight up came away thinking his actions were justified, and I honestly don't get it. Like, at the very least by the time If I Could Tell Her rolls around, you should be extremely extremely uncomfortable imo, I can't imagine being on evan's side at that point and I do think that is due to the musical's writing. But idk, I feel like there is validity to the argument that if so many people didn't see evan as the bad guy, maybe they could have made it clearer somehow. Although to me it feels like they did a good job at that, I can't deny that obviously wasn't the case for everyone.
Yeah, I was a casual listener of the songs of the musical for a while and totally didn't get that the situation was so messed up. Only after some time that I was like: ok, but what Evan ir actually really bad and cannot be justified or waved away,, right? The little that I witnessed regarding fan discourse showed me that, though some view Evan as a sympathetic villain, there are still people who think that what he did was reasonable. (I also see some parallels between Evan messing up and the classic moment in teenage movies where the protagonist messes up somehow but makes up for it apologizing or something in the end. We are so used to this story format that maybe we assume that's what happens on the musical too)
@@srtatropicalia yeah, that's so fair- and after finishing the video, I do agree with Amanda that they wrote Zoe in the musical to be a little too forgiving at the end, I can understand how that could totally give the feeling like we're supposed to forgive Evan at the end. I think they could have handled some things better to make it clearer that Evan's actions are really reprehensible while still humanizing him, since it didn't come across to everyone very well
I wouldn't be too sure anyone actually *did* see him as in the right. This backlash seems like people who'd never heard of the show read the synopsis and flipped out under the *assumption* that everyone who was a fan took it at face value. Maybe because they assume all musicals are 1 dimensional. Or maybe because you're obviously going to have a different and much more reactionary response to reading a synopsis than to actually consuming a story the way you're *supposed* to.
Either way, if I were you I would trust your experience in the fandom over someone who saw a picture of Old Platt and wanted to get in on the Hot Take Train.
It's just like when everyone decided Hamilton was problematic because "obviously" the show wanted you to think slaveowners were heroic pinnacles of enlightenment 🙄
@@pseudonymous9153 the thing is, there's a lot of value to criticizing media we like. I love Hamilton, I genuinely still know every word of it, but I think it's extremely ironic in ways that are not often good or intentional. (I think Hamilton's issues are more about a not-so-great concept which was executed so well that we almost didn't realize it was about rapping slave owners, and DEH's problem is more like having a great, messed up concept that just could have been more fleshed out and thoughtful in some aspects.) They're both really enjoyable media that's still flawed in some ways, and reasoned criticism of them is totally valid. I'll be honest, it would be really silly of me to just trust my 15 year old self's opinion and experience with it, especially since I projected so hard onto it and probably had rose-colored glasses in a way. My takeaway from watching the video and the other reply here, was that it was probably easy for me and my circle of theater kids to see Evan as being in the wrong precisely because we sympathized with him, but were familiar enough with how toxic those behaviors were to know without the show having to tell us. But for other people just taking the show at face value, especially younger teens, I can see how certain aspects came across as condoning or justifying Evan's actions. Again, still love the show! But it's healthy to be able to realize, like, this media meant a lot to me, but it didn't work for everyone and that doesn't mean that the other people are wrong, just that it maybe didn't do the best job at coming across the right way. Hope that makes sense!
Jared and Alana are both awful friends for obvious reasons. Evan never wanted to lie to the Murphys - Jared convinced him to. Evan only really digs into the lie about Connor after the Murphys start fighting. Evan comes from a broken home. He knows the signs of a family falling apart, and he doesn't want that to happen to the Murphys. Do you know when Evan comes clean about the whole thing? When the Murphys start fighting again. Evan willingly throws himself under the bus to keep the family from falling apart again. Do you know why the Murphys were fighting? Because despite *begging her for the Murphy's sake* not to, Alana decides to share the suicide note with absolutely no regard for anything else but her precious "engagement". She is literally the reason everything falls apart. How are she and Jared not the antagonists of the story?
After Evan lies about Connor and the orchard, Zoe is so angry about it that she launches into Requiem. In the middle of "If I Could Tell Her", she asks if there was anything else Connor said about her, but is then incredibly bashful about asking. That didn't feel like an, "I don't want you to know that I secretly wanted praise from my brother," kind of embarrassment to me. That sounded like an, "I don't want you to know that I want /you/ to keep saying nice things about me", kind of embarrassment to me. She doesn't believe Connor said anything about her being awesome at the start of the song, why would she start believing him halfway through? They had good chemistry before Connor even took his own life. When she apologizes to Evan about Connor's behavior, she's genuinely endeared with him already. She knew Evan was full of shit and telling her what he felt in his own way. Weird? Definitely. But look at their first conversation and tell me she would think that's out of character for him. At the end of the second half, Zoe says, "You gave me my brother back." This does not mean that she suddenly believes he's a saint. But seeing the good that Connor's memory is doing for other people, along with Evan's insistence that there was good in him, helps her confront her own grief over his death. He may have been abusive, but he was still her brother, and a part of her still loved him. Evan helped her realize that she didn't have to totally accept or reject him. She could remember the good things about him without forgiving him for the bad. She could grieve for her brother without accepting the monster that he was. It's notable that after this, they sing "Only Us". She's processed her feelings for Connor, and is ready to move on. Her relationship with Evan had very little to do with Connor's memory.
Evan's mother is incredibly toxic. When she discovers he's been hiding things like the Connor project from her, she immediately starts guilt tripping him over not telling her, despite the fact that what he was hiding were all signs of him becoming a more successful, confident person. He's the co-founder of a charity foundation, and she's so concerned with him hiding it from her, she forgets to... you know, be happy that he's being more outgoing? This is a pattern with her. When she's hurt, she doesn't care enough to have a conversation about it, she just immediately starts lashing out, and then she wonders why Evan won't tell her anything. And the worst example of this is the conversation just before Good For You. She starts out alright, talking about how mortifying it is to find out about his relationship with the Murphys in the way that she did, but then she starts insulting the Murphys, who are perfectly well-meaning. "These... these these these PEOPLE!". And when Evan tries to defend them, she then doubles down, and starts mocking them and going back to guilt tripping him, and that's when Evan really start pushing back. I get being upset, but the way she talks to Evan is incredibly immature at best and antagonistic at worst. And turning down the college money is her ego at its finest. She's perfectly willing to sacrifice Evan's emotional needs so that they can get by, but when she has to swallow her pride and accept help from people who ADORE her son - "It would be such a gift for us to do this for Evan..." - she practically implodes from the sheer indignity of it all. She then goes on to mock the people who have been giving her son the emotional support he needed because she feels insignificant and is scared of Evan leaving her the way his dad did, not realizing that lashing out in the way she does is literally what is pushing him away.
Lastly, I think people undervalue what exactly it was that Evan did for the Murphys. The question that keeps coming up is "Why did Connor kill himself?" That's literally what the Murphys are always fighting about. What Evan's lie did, even if it was a lie, was show the Murphys that they didn't need to search for a reason. It was enough to remember him and be at peace with his memory. For depression and suicide, that is an INCREDIBLY important lesson for grieving families because sometimes there isn't a good reason, and you can hurt yourself more in the search for answers. Plenty of parents blame themselves, and that's exactly what we see Mrs. Murphy doing when everything blows up. She starts asking if it was their fault, if they're bad parents, because that's what the internet is telling them. All of Evan's efforts to keep them from searching for that answer were falling apart, and he knew that the only way to keep them from imploding again was to come clean.
Evan himself admits in Words Fail that what he did was partially selfish. But he also says this:
This was just a sad invention
It wasn't real, I know
But we were happy
I guess I couldn't let that go
I guess I couldn't give that up
Not I was happy. /We/ were happy. I don't see evan as a sympathetic villain. I see him as a tragic hero. He was trying to make the best of a really bad situation. Do you tell the family the truth and watch them fall apart before your eyes? Or do you lie to keep them together and maybe make them, and maybe even yourself, feel better in the process? It's a no-win situation, really. And the reason they couldn't be happy in the end wasn't because of Evan's lie. It was because Alana told too much of the truth. It was because Jared wanted to use Evan. It was because Evan's mom couldn't let go of her own pride and her own pain and just be happy for what Evan had. She tells him they aren't your family, but family isn't always the people related to us by blood. They're the people who nurture us and are there for us when we need them. The Murphys were that for Evan in a way that his mother couldn't be, even if she was trying. But rather than being happy that he was getting the love and attention he needed, she chose to be bitter and self-righteous, and there's really no excuse for that. Trying or not, that's really shitty behavior from a parent.
Also, Evan was officially dating Zoe at the time, so they very likely would have become his in-laws.
As an avid fan myself, I always saw the major flaws of Evan (and the other characters) as the strongest points of the musical's mental health advocacy.
None of the characters are perfect--and some are more harmful than others (Connor and his abusive tendencies, Evan and his lies, Alana and her post of Connor's suicide note, etc)--but in the end, they're all capable of self-improvement. Rather than treating any of them as either perfect victims or complete monsters, as other media tend to do with characters who struggle with mental illnesses, the musical can paint each characters' awful actions as awful while always leaving room for nuance.
No character is beyond redemption or change except--arguably--Connor. Not because he's done one too many misdeeds to be forgiven, but simply because he's dead. His opportunities were cut short and now he can only develop retroactively the minds of others.
And in that lies the message that helped me through junior high and high school: No matter what you've done in the past, you'll always have a future. As long as you stay alive, you'll always be capable of becoming a better person.
That's why I'm attached to DEH (the musical, at least). Nobody's perfect, nobody's evil, and nobody's unworthy of sympathy or love.
I agree, Chloe. I think that the massive backlash DEH film received is a sign of a bigger picture - Today's audiences running away from anything remotely ''problematic'', unless it's about ''killing bad guys'', or something so far removed from reality that it becomes escapism. Basically every film recently released featuring characters verbally fighting, manipulating, lying or being aggressive in any form has been panned by many. Of course, the way it handles those things is crucial, but even in cases like DEH, where the protagonist learns from his mistakes, and doesn't end-up with his love interest, the criticism is the same. It's like modern audiences cannot grasp any shade of grey between being infallable and being irredeemable. Frankly, life doesn't work that way, and being on a high horse isn't exactly a good personality trait either. Sure, we all criticize Evan's behavior, as we are supposed to. That shouldn't take way from the fact that he has good traits as well, nor that he by his own volition, admitted to the lies, and tried to do better. I am a bit disappointed how black and white things have to be presented in order for people to sympathize with the characters.
Read Umineko
@@wrigglenight93 The visual novel? I looked it up. Seems intriguing, maybe I will...
@@chloe._. It takes a very different, altogether stranger path. But if you want that sort of message done not just well, but pretty much fucking perfectly, I can't recommend it enough.
@@wrigglenight93 Strange is good
The worst part is that the book is a retelling of the musical as well, and it does it so much better. Obviously books can go much more in depth that musicals or movies, but the changes they made in the book were much better than the ones in the movie..
I recommend the book to anyone who was disappointed by the movie or even the original musical. While it still isn't perfect, it explains everything a bit more and shows more of Connors side of the story
Who’s the author of the book? I’m thinking of buying it
@@phoenixreaper2283 Benj Pasek, Val Emmich, and Steven Levenson!
@@hydnumm9219 ty
i have only read the book and i really enjoyed it
My god, I was hoping for someone to comment that. I liked the book much much more than the musical (even though I'm a total fan of the songs). The feeling of Evan being completely wrong accompanies us throughout the whole story. And Connor's pov finally makes the narrative itself just... more fair? It always bugged me that in the musical we never even knew the real Connor.
I'm a musical theatre kid. I was in college for musical theatre when DEH came out and, despite being extremely excited for a new Pasek and Paul show, I listened to it and have despised it ever since.
My brother died when I was 17, and it's something just awful and unimaginable. There isn't a lot of media that takes the perspective of the sibling of someone who dies, so it sometimes feels like people forget that it's also the worst thing in the world for you. While grieving my brother, I had people come up to me to make sure I was "taking care of my parents" and "being strong for them" at such a horrible time. You get the message that your pain comes second. So for this show to make the death of a character about someone who's actively using the situation to get close to the sister makes me sick. If someone had done that to me, it would have absolutely destroyed me. The relationships and little bright spots you find after a tragedy can feel like the only things keeping you going, so to learn that any of them are false... I don't know, I couldn't handle it.
Anyway, I can understand how other young people can see this story (moreso the stage show than the movie) as helpful and relatable with their own struggles with mental health, but for someone with a closer connection to the story, it’s more harmful than anything else.
One really interesting thing about DEH is that it seems like Canadian audiences (specifically those in Toronto) didn’t find the same magic as American audience. There was a production of DEH at Mirvish in 2019 that had to close early because they weren’t selling enough tickets. In fact, Mirvish had to rush out the announcement of Harry Potter and the Cursed Child more than (I believe) a month before they were supposed to, since DEH bombed so hard. Of course, that meant the Toronto production of Come From Away was then able to retake their original home, thankfully. Honestly, I’m still so salty that DEH beat CFA at the Tony’s.
Sorry for the long comment, I just had to get some of that off of my chest.
as a quote unquote theater kid im still bitter that this musical got all the clout that Fun Home deserved
Can I ask why you didn't just write; "theater kid"? Seems like it would be less writing, no?
@@tazhienunurbusinezz1703 got diagnosed theater kid, doesnt mean i claim it yet :(
Fun Home and Natasha, Pierre and The Great Comet of 1812 were ROBBED
@@robotsocks-504 you don't have to & that's all fine but, when writing, probably just use the actual quotation marks ("quotes") to say what you did. It's just easier & more universally understood for people who aren't reading comments with English being their first/only language.
@@tazhienunurbusinezz1703 ah sorry I thought u was just being a pedant lol. I mostly did it because, imo, reading "quote, unquote" is funnier than just straight up quotation marks?? I'll keep it in mind tho ^^
THANK YOU for saying all this. Living in Manhatten when this show came out, I had way too many people judge me for thinking I was a sociopath for not loving the way this plot happened. I'm all for mental health awareness and feeling social anxiety. But what Evan did was messed up.
Dear Evan Hansen was dead to me ever since it got Best Musical over Great Comet of 1812 at the Tonys lol. Plus Ben Platt kinda rubs me the wrong way a bit, I wish they’d casted Andrew Barth-Feldman
Omg, I didn’t realize that was the same year. Great Comet deserved it 1000% more than this fake mental illness rep bullshit 😒
Great Comet was incredible and I'm still mad it lost out and also closed in that awful way. I think Ben deserved the Tony but the show as a whole? Naaah. I still don't know what I'm supposed to take away from Dear Evan Hansen.
That year tonys were a mess there are falsettos fans still bitter about them
@@shortinsomniac76 yes lmao, me!!!
I'm so conflicted because I loved this musical as a teenager who was struggling but this movie is a whole mess. 😅
I think it's fine to like something and still acknowledge that it has issues! If it helped you as a teen, you don't have to feel bad about that
Likewise, the music was always my favourite part of this musical, but it's not without its flaws, naturally. Evan himself is just out for his own personal gain, and only confesses after the family starts getting heckled online.
@@trinaq But when Evan meets the Murphys you can see how they are pushing him for anything about their son and he’s too afraid to tell them the truth. It’s not the right thing to do but at the beginning at least I think Evan wanted to give them something good about their son after seeing the family fight over Conner.
@@ofthewilderwoods yeah but every other lie would have worked better, just saying Connor was nice at him and thats all
I never thought the musical tried to redeem him. It jumped a few years ahead of where everyone has distanced themselves from the pain a little which is still obviously present. I never got the impression that Zoey forgave him, just that she understood why and just accepted that yeah that's a shitty thing that happened and I'm not going to waste any more energy being mad about it. It showed that Evan, who did a horrible horrible thing that hurt so many people, was able to keep going, reflecting his mother's advice in the song Does anyone have a map. Something along the lines can't we just fuck up enough to see that the world won't fall apart. It's an encouraging story, that no matter what we do there is a tomorrow and we just need to keep going.
0:38 Amanda: "But Evan has a secret--"
Me: "oh he's just *pretending* to be a high schooler! Phew"
Amanda: "he didn't really know Connor and he's secretly in love with their daughter"
Me: "... because he's only pretending to be a high schooler???"
He doesn't look like a high school student AT ALL, but to be fair, neither do other people in this film, or 90% of other films. Not only that Hollywood doesn't really cast minors (which I get, because of the labor laws), but it also refuses to cast people who are 18-21, and look visibly younger than their actual age. Most of these ''high schoolers'' look exactly their actual age rather than even attempting looking younger. So, while I get the criticism towards Ben Platt playing 17, I don't know why so many people are outraged in way like it's the first time that happened.
@@AlirioAguero2 It's because he LOOKS so jarringly old compared to the other actors around him. Jared and Zoe and Alana's actors are all about the same age as Ben Platt, yet they look like the type of high schoolers you normally see in movies, whereas Ben looks _just_ too-old enough for it to be a little uncanny valley.
The Prom had a meaningful storyline that was completely erased in the movie so they could shove big time celebs down our throats, and DEH does the same by making sure the main character has a happy ending regardless of whether or not he deserves it.
This is what happens when Hollywood takes charge of projects. Just please stop adapting musicals into Hollywood movies.
You know what was a great musical movie this year that involved the original cast in a lot of the decisions, stayed true to it's origins, and DIDN'T cast the original actor in the lead role? In The Heights.
You know what this movie is? Not In The Heights.
Tell daddy Platt he can't buy Benny a tony
Just stop adapting them badly.
I don’t think i can give a fair evaluation of this movie at this point, i’m just EXTREMELY SALTY that they basically cut 90% of Jared’s everything: screentime, role in the story, personality… Which is TWISE as insulting cause he’s this show gay rep - like, yeah, lets make this important character gay, but turn him from one of the major figures in secondary cast to basically a background character, are you serviced LGBT??????? =/
I really think they did it so they could have a character make all the gay jokes without getting shit on
@@AmandaTheJedi i could only manage to watch about 40-50 minutes of the movie and yeh... Yeh i got that vibe as well
@@AmandaTheJedi probably and it pisses me off even more :C
They did my boy dirty
wait, they turned a straight character gay, but removed the actual, real mlm characters/moments (connor and miguel) because??
@@joseanurkkalainen2832 this was only touched on in the book. i don't think Miguel was mentioned at all in the musical?
In the words of the legendary Jenny Nicholson,
"Maybe Evan isn't a nice boy. Maybe Evan is just a quiet boy..."
Mental health: *Exists*
Hollywood: “It’s free real estate”
As a response to evan saying he did the worst thing anyone could, yes, however, let's not forget in the musical jared made merch with conors face on it and made a profit from his suicide.
a lot of parents liked this bc it showed the real struggle of not knowing what to do to help your kids, and taking out “does anybody have a map” and “good for you” does evan’s mom SO dirty :( and connor’s mom too. a huge part of the story involved the dynamics w the parents and so it appealed to a much wider audience, not just middle school girls or ppl w/ anxiety & depression. the movie took those out and i feel like it takes away from another layer of the story.
I can't believe they removed "Good for You", a huge point of the musical is how Evan, even though the viewer feels some sympathy or empathy for him, is 100% in the wrong.
A giant theme is how we selfishly use others as characters in our own story: Evan obviously does this, Alana too, Zoe goes off on her parents for using Connor more to confirm their own biases than ever actually caring for them, and then ofc everyone on social media. We actually see a lot of this in the musical, as Evan has these mental conversations with "Connor" that the musical at the end makes clear is just his mental voice wearing Connor's face. I like that they spent more time with the moral of legitimately listening to each other and making an effort to see someone for who they are, but I think that moral is a lot weaker if Evan faces less punishment.
As a response to evan saying he did the worst thing anyone could, yes, however, let's not forget in the musical jared made merch with conors face on it and made a profit from his suicide.
"comedy"
I really hate the musical. Like don't get me wrong, I love the music part of it all because it's fun. But the second I think of the background and the story I deal with psychic damage too big to endure
Same, like I listen to and enjoy a few of the songs. But overall, it's a no from me.
I remember back when I was first discovering this musical and asking why he said the whole thing about the emails.
"Well he just panicked and made up a lie cos they weren't listening to the truth"
"But he already told them about the apple orchard thing, right? Why didn't he just, like, stop there?"
"Idk, he panicked and kept lying I guess"
"Yeah but isn't he bad at talking to people? How is he so good at lying on the spot?"
Oh I can answer the why! Like you said, he was panicking, but there's also a big part of him that feels bad for Cynthia and wants so desperately for her to be happy.
It's also been established that he's a good writer (his mom says that in regards to college scholarships), so he has to be some degree of creative, plus he's basically repurposing his own memories and desires. Hope this helps!
Zoe just looks WAY too young next to Ben Platt. Like she looks 15 and he looks 24+. Just makes me feel gross lol
Is THAT what Dear Evan Hansen’s been about this whole time??
Sadly, yes. It's not the paragon of mental health rep people seem to _think_ it is. Lmao. As someone who's pretty mentally ill, I kinda hate the musical. The songs are fine and catchy and sound great but the plot is disgusting. I hate it.
That's how I felt when I finally watched a bootleg of it. I was honestly so confused, it just didn't fit at all with how people talked about it. All it really did for me was upset me. The music on it's own was definitely more impactful, then come to learn half of it isn't about what it sounds like it's about because it's all based on a lie. Blegh
Lol. I had the same reaction when I finally read the plot after the trailer dropped. Definitely looking at folks differently. Why were yall stanning this play to begin with? The movie is getting the reaction the play should have gotten from the jump. I was disgusted.
@@birdiewolf3497 believe it or not the musical is slightly more tolerable because it doesn't try to pull the bs redemption arc like the movie does.
Literally my reaction right now.
I never really dived into the musicals story although I legitimately liked the few songs of the soundtrack I listened to (no particular reason for why I didn't took more interest in it, I just simply didn't look further into it) and based on the way people talk so highly about the musical I always assumed that the story has a MUCH more positive ending for Evan and everyone involved.
Sure I knew that the lie he tangled himself up in got out of hand and that a seriously messed up situation was created out of it but I kinda just trusted the story (and the general publics reaction) that things get solved in the end. Today is the first time I hear about Evan ending up basically loosing everything at the end of the show because of his lies, that's *buckle ass wild.* People NEVER talked about how legitimately messed up the actual story is, painting it as one of hope and overcoming the darkest times of your life while facing serious mental health problems and your own mortality.
I am... kinda overwhelmed right now ngl. How has DEH become THIS BIG of a hit and THIS talked-about and yet it seems to get pretty misrepresented concerning its actual context? Did the musical actually life THIS MUCH from its percentage of fans who had no way of watching the show themselves and therefore kinda just... didn't know and sheared their wrong assumptions about the shows plot??
I don't know what to do with all of this right now, I honestly didn't expect any of this at all. How THE *FUCK* is this even possible??
The white lie that escalates and spirals out of control is one of my favourite tropes, but it definitely has to be done right. It works for both comedies and dramas.
I feel like everyone was pressuring him in the movie. Like Connors mom was trying so hard to get something out of Evan about Connor.
yeah but like... he coulda say there weren't emails.. or just.. not make fake ones. There's way too much active over the top fabrication to give him a pass there. Her pushing is where I'd give him a pass at letting them believe the letter was from him and that they had talked a bit and that was it
@@AmandaTheJedi Yeah that’s completely understandable
@@AmandaTheJedi I think that bit was fine... as long as they showed what he was doing was wrong, which the movie seem to ignore
I said this on twitter, but i´ll say it here. If you want to see a coming of age film about anxiety, depression, grief and suicide...i recommend Ordinary People (1980)
I liked the musical a lot when I was younger, but looking back it's kind of... sinister? Apparently it was always meant to show that Evan wasn't the greatest person and that just flew right over my head I guess
Don’t blame yourself- I don’t think the show does a great job of framing/showing that what Evan does is wrong. (Part of this has to do with the music too but a lot of people seem to like the music so I won’t go into that)
There is a novelization of the play that I'm reading and it goes into a lot more of Evan's thought process and why he came to do the things that he did. I don't think anyone is a monster, just misunderstood people doing what they thought was best at the time or unable to do the right thing for whatever reason. People make bad decisions and sometimes those bad decisions have major consequences. This is the review that got me intrigued enough to buy the novel when I saw it and I appreciate your candidness and your bombastic speaking style!
Adding: The book also shares the Connor story :)
i went and saw Dear Evan Hansen a couple years ago and i cried, like a lot, but at the same time i was aware that if you think about the plot for more than like 5 seconds it’s…yikes
Can we kind of kill the "secretly in love with X person in highschool" trope? Like, most of the time the person pining hasn't even talked to the love interest which to me means you don't actually know them and thus cannot be in love with them.
Word
Realistic outcome: Said person never gets with high school crush in the end, instead moves on to find someone else.
Just a suggestion.
The original show had a song called "Obvious" that was cut in favor of "If I could Tell Her".
I can't find a reason why, but the lyrics for Obvious just describe Evan's attraction as that vague infatuation most YA and Romances push as "love".
If I Could Tell Her on the other hand's lyrics are all about Evan specifically listing various actual things about Zoe that Evan likes,
showing that he's actually gotten to know her already if only to a degree.
(Though yes, Evan is lying that these were what Connor liked about Zoe in a dual effort to hide his true feelings out of fear of rejection,
and to try and comfort Zoe's mixed feelings about Connor...with disastrous results.)
Plus they did briefly talk right before Waving Through a Window, though again, Evan withheld his true feelings for Zoe.
Also I just wanna say I love how they just had them get together mid-way rather then resort to that "Will They Won't They" bullshit.
Also the whole scene with "Only Us" in the stage show is a win.
I hate this argument. There’s more than one type of love. Obviously conflating your first high school love with the love of, say, a long term partner is disingenuous, but saying something is or isn’t love because it doesn’t meet a set of arbitrary requirements is ludicrous.
@@sydneydunaway5618 I don't think my standards of actually knowing a person and talking to them once is arbitrary when it comes to romantic love. Sure a universal "I love all mankind" doesn't require actual contact but that's not usually the type of love explored in high school romance movies. But you might think differently and that's alright by me.
Every time I see a bad DEH review it feels like compensation for the 2017 Tony awards.
PS: if you want a good musical about mental health, I think Bandstand covers the topic a lot better and deserves the hype DEH has. Great Comet also handles depression in a better way imo
I've heard really good things about Great Comet I'll have to check it out!
@@AmandaTheJedi It can be…a lot on the first listen but I really like it!
Next to Normal is also a VERY good musical about mental health. And I think it covers it a lot more carefully. (I would read the plot first because it does cover topics that can be triggering.)
I have social anxiety. Waving Through a Window is a song I resonated with.... But as for the plot? I think the writers (for stage and screen) stumbled with the message they were trying to say.
@@nerdoftheatre I’ve been meaning to listen to Next to Normal!
@@evies.1018 I was lucky enough to see the show when my university did a production of it. It's a HEAVY show, but it is written very well. It is absolutely one of my favorite shows.
I saw the ads and I was like "Does this creep lie about being friends with a dead kid? There's no way they can play this off as him not being a psycho" And I read the summary and was like Oh dear lord he just starts taking his life basically! People find this inspirational!?
Like the plot is an ending knife fight away from being a Lifetime movie
I remember when I was watching the play the song “You will be found” really filled me with dread. It was framed as an uplifting song but had a double meaning to me.
This song was truly where the lie grew far beyond the point it could be taken back. It felt less like you will be found ❤️ and more like YOU will be found. I find it incredibly interesting.
Whenever it is used without the context I always feel like a kid who lied and had it get away from them. Loosing the reigns. That’s good writing to me ☺️
The funniest part to me about this movie is when Evan and his mother go into a hug at the end of that song it STRAIGHT UP looks like they're about to kiss but move last minute 😂😂😂 my buddy and I both looked at each other when we saw it in theaters and started busting out laughing LOL
Omg i thought i was the only one who thought they were about to kiss😭
Dear Evan Hansen holds a special spot for me. After hearing 'Waving through a window' I bawled my eyes out and realised I needed therapy. In a way, this music saved me. I do like the music and hope to see the musical in the future. But the book is a much better media how this story is told. The book has a storyline for Conner and deepens in his struggles.
Amanda I’m STILL waiting on that Alice and Bella video but this ones so good so far! I loved the musical and have been seeing a lot of hate for this movie so I’m curious to see your final opinion on this.
Evan with social anxiety: Tells lie after lie
Me with Autism, OCD, and tendencies of social anxiety: Telling too much of the truth to the point where others would rather not hear it😂
*cries in stage show supremacy*
Ok wait after hearing what they did with the ending I’m pleasantly surprised. I mean I’m still salty that they cut so many important songs, but having evan really own up to what he did online and then actually give something to the parents is a nice change.
As someone who is very mental ill and has dealt with suicidal thoughts, the entire casts life getting “better” after Connor dies, it’s horrible.
Honestly the original musical meant so much to me because of how they talked about anxiety and how Evan couldn't really make friends. It was very important to me and when I heard the original evan would be in moive I got really excited. Seeing them cut out some of my favorite songs actaully made me sad. At least they tried
I originally found this musical through an animation of "Sincerely, Me," and it was back when I was going through a really tough depression. I remember liking Connor the best, in spite of him being constantly portrayed as a bad guy, because mentally ill people are often seen that way. I mean, mental illness can make people act in shitty ways, and while it isn't an excuse, it is an explanation of sorts, and I related a lot to him because of that. God knows I did and said things I wouldn't now, but at least I get the chance to be better. Connor didn't, because on the day he made the smallest effort to get better, he thought he was being played and committed suicide.
And, personally, I like that the story doesn't have a perfect ending or perfect characters. It shows that the characters are people and I do think they did a good job at portraying what happens after someone takes their own lives: the guilt, blaming each other, the people who swear up and down that they were close to the deceased but weren't.
Evan is absolutely a shitty person, but he was also sick. I think that, on top of everything, he was a bit of a pathological liar. I read the novels that the original screen writers of the musical published and I think that it's the best version of the story: we get more of Evan's internal monologues, we see that he does see how wrong he is to be doing things and yet he can't stop out of fear of the consequences, and there's even a bit where we find out Connor was gay and had an ex boyfriend. I thought that was a nice touch because it added to Connor's character instead of just making him a blank canvas for Evan to paint as he saw fit.
I agree, I always had issues with the musical and ever since I first heard the premise I thought, well that can’t end well!
It does start on a rollercoaster where he was basically pushed into agreeing that they must have been friends. However, I feel that the reason he kept going at first, when he’s singing about their best day together, was because Evan took what had been his worst day (when he broke his arm), and turned it into his best day, even if it was fake. In a way, he did what his therapist wanted him to do through the letters. Fake it till you make it. He went way overboard with it for sure, but by erasing that day and turning it into something (fake) good, he basically erased all of his weakness and jumped into this “new him”. Ofc it all comes crashing down, but he comes out stronger.
I’m not saying what he did was right, nor that it should be emulated or even praised.
I mean, to be honest, Evan does face consequences... He loses the murphies, he loses zoe, he doesn't get into college, he actually loses everything... He was already at his bottom through the entire musical... What more could he face? Suicide?
He loses everything and has to rebuild himself again from scratch... I think that's a pretty big consequence (not that I'm excusing his behaviour, merely explaining...
Thank you!! And I bet you the whole time he was lying it was just killing him inside. I have been in a situation like that before. Not lying about being friends with a dead kid, but I have lied because I was so uncomfortable and it just got worse and worse and it was killing me inside. Evan loses everything! And I hate when people say "he never had any consequences for his actions" well I have done something horrible multiple times and I didn't face "consequences" and it actually was better for me than being punished. I felt the mercy I had been given and it changed me.
Dear Evan Hansen is literally a classic tragedy. It shouldn't have been THAT difficult to adapt.
This is why I love the musical. Because it is a classic tragedy.
It’s just sad that Connor is the most interesting character and we barely get to see him or learn about him. I’m with you, I want the Connor story.
Read the book. You learn more about him and his relationships. The audiobook is actually on TH-cam
My experience with this musical is loving the songs and reading the book. Which I loved and like… kind of had a lot of things that you wanted, like a lot more Conner and we get to learn so much more about him. It’s great and very depressing.
I mean it's not even slightly different framing that makes it messed up, just the idea of "guy who uses the fact family thinks he's their dead son's only friend and uses this opportunity to get closer to their daughter he wants to date" is just straight messed up. It got championed as a story that pushes to talk about mental health and end the stigma because of the sons suicide, Evans own depression, and songs like waving through a window and you will be found, but the core story is "boy exploits a greiving family to shag their daughter."
That's one, unnuanced oversimplified way to look at it.
I imagine your Cinderella review is: "Spineless bimbo has to be rescued by hot rich prince".
@@generalhorse493 Cinderella rescued herself, she snuck out to go to the ball
@@generalhorse493 that's a terrible comparison. Cinderella left to the ball herself because she wanted to. The prince happened to fall in love with her and getting married was a saving point
@@IncorrectHB Phew, for a second I thought The Take were the only ones who recognized that.
@𝘿!𝙘𝙠 Riding ǤƗяℓ Isabella 1. Anxiety does not equal sucking at lying
2. Evan doesn't create an intricate lie, he starts a small lie and then improv builds on it with each prying question, building it bigger and bigger.
3. He uses an element of truth in each part of the lie whether it's using what little he's learned about Connor or directly inserting his own experiences and wants.
4. The Murphys believe it because they wanted to believe it. They were after all the ones who created the lie in the first place and pushed it onto Evan.
I never quite understood they hype for the musical tbh, or honestly how it was some sort of advocation for mental illness awareness. Evan just was kind of a terrible person the entire show, and then his song when he gets caught is like “but I was so happy when I was lying to this grieving family to get their attention! I’m sad now! My life sucks!” Some of the songs were catchy but overall I was never into it the way so many people seemed to be.
I think that’s the point. Almost every person in it is not great and makes a lot of really bad choices
I’m in the small group where I love the songs but the story and the character of Evan Hansen are the absolute worst part about it. I know what people are talking about when it comes with the topics of Suicide and Social Anxiety BUT THAT 👏🏻 DOESN’T👏🏻 WORK 👏🏻 when Evan goes along with this. Once it turned romantic with Zoe, it’s just like...dude even if you can’t let the lie go, DON”T GET ROMANTICALLY INVOLVED WITH HER based on that lie, just say you’re not into her! Like Asshole, That’s disgusting and sociopathic. If i was Evan I would just say to Zoe that “Hey I want to be honest with you. I really didn’t know your brother, it was all in the moment and i wanted to come clean. If you hate me, hate me I just want to be up front.” Or even just lie that he’s not into her, SOMETHING other than what amounts to getting someone to have sex with you under false pretenses.
I was really conflicted watching the movie too. The musical really helped me when I was going through a rough time and I still cried at several of the songs in the movie, but there are so many issues with the plot that make Evan hard to sympathize with. I felt I could relate to him in how he was feeling and his struggles with his mental health, but so many of his actions as the movie went on were borderline sociopathic. I don’t feel like it’s a good representation of people with severe anxiety and depression. In my opinion, the fact that he barely insisted to Connor’s parents that the note was not written by Connor just felt unrealistic.
I do feel like his false story and lies brought some peace to both him and the Murphy family, but I feel like their reaction to finding out it was all a lie was also not realistic.
I enjoyed watching the movie and I loved many of the songs (I agree with you about Sincerely, Me) but I still walked out of the theater conflicted.
If something brought you peace when you were struggling you absolutely do not have to feel bad about liking it even if you realize it has faults
@@AmandaTheJedi thank you for this
I will tell you a lil something that made me connect with the story so deeply that... Yeah I feel Empathy with Evan (I watched the musical btw). When I was really young something horrible happened to me that scarred me for life, it still does. Since it happened when I was 12, it basically fucked me up for my complete teen years, absolutely destroyed, unable to make meaningful connections, afraid, alone and feeling miserable each and every day of my life. I thought of ending myself, I did hurt myself a little but I also envied people that were "hurting" and still made friends. I distinctly remember wishing, praying every night to have some kind of freakish accident, especially breaking my arm, just so I could fish out sympathy and make friends.
It was a horrible moment, the true feelings of loneliness and how mentally, emotionally and morally broken you can end up being to wish, to try and relay in lies and pity just to feel... Human. But I understood this story coming from that, years later I watched the musical and I cried, in the middle of the show, because I was that person, I was willing to lie, to hurt myself, to create a bubble of expectations JUST to fill myself of... something. I have came out of that idea little by little, It has taken years, therapy and great friends who kept looking at me even when I was ready to finish it off.
This story, for many might be a terror plot ready to happen.
For me, it was reality at a point in my life. And I hope more people watch it, and get the other half of the message from it "You DON'T need to dwell in your misery to create pity" "You DON'T need to fish for sympathy or recognition" "You CAN reject these wrong choices and be okay, because you will be, because you will be found, first, by yourself and then by others" "You can be happy and your happiness will attract the people that wish to share it and increase it" "You can allow yourself to be alone until you are ready to move".
I wish for anyone that has and had those secret wishes and wrong choices to be forgiven, to step up, learn, like Evan, like I did, to own up the mistake and give one step foward. Things will get amazing later, just hang in there, a bit longer.
I really want the thriller version of Dear Evan hansen now
I’ve only heard the original cast album, so I’ve never been 100% about what this was about. All I know is that the songs and music are top notch. Thanks to this synopsis, I think I’ll stick to the album, thanks.
Too much “Idiot Plot”, for my taste.
Most of the songs are way worse in context. I listened to the OBC album and then saw the show and cringed my way through a bunch of my favourite songs.
Honestly the only other actor I would've been ok with playing Evan for the movie is Ben Levi Ross. His voice gave a similar feel that Ben Platt's had and he could easily pull off a 17-18 year old
Andrew Barth Feldman played Evan on Broadway, and he’s only 19. He would have been an excellent choice, as well.
What really balloons this entire progression of the story for me is it’s own myopic obsession in trying to have its cake, eat it too and sell it in both ways. The entire selling point of this story was Evan’s lie inspiring a lot of people to speak up against the issues of suicide but how that very lie within itself plays at the epicenter of how this was wrong to start with; I mean, yeah I get it: it’s a hopeful lie surrounding a serious situation…..but it’s still a decision that cost thousands of people their dignity, livelihoods or worse and makes Evan out to be really creepy and far from sympathetic; the bloody Cheetah Girls end up looking more sympathetic after this and they were ACTIVELY TRYING to get on your nerves!
If this musical wanted to be as hopeful as it claims it is, it should’ve used its darker story to dissect that false sense of cheery optimism that plagues the rest of the plot and you know, commit to its promise. But by playing it safe, the story proceeds to gloss over the pathological choices Evan makes and refuses to get to the actual root of the problem, thus exercising more blatant emotional manipulation and taking the audiences affection for granted.
P.S: BUT…..I will admit I’m having difficulty unhearing Sincerely, Me as well.
they removed "Good For You"! would have been so cathartic for the audience to see Evan be actually blamed and face some consequences!
The Broadway show is kinda problemaic already so I'm not surprise this flop. And I totally agree that the problem with Ben Platt casting is the styling, I mean even the parents look younger than they are suposed to
Even with the efforts the movie made to improve the story. I still think overall it's problematic.
It's still a movie about a guy who lies to a family who lost their son and creates a fake relationship with the dead boy.
It's still a story about a guy who uses the lie to get close to that family, especially the sister, who's now forever confused about her feelings about her abusive brother that apparently she knew nothing about.
It's still a story about a guy who inspires and helps other outcasts to not hide away from the world and to not give up...but off of a lie.
A lie which reinvented a teenage boy who constantly was misunderstood and was never given a chance to tell his own story.
Frankly it adds onto this new wave of teen media that promotes this completely unacceptable message of doing anything for your mental illness,, but seek professional advice and guidance on your mental state to improve it in a healthy setting...no matter how bat shit crazy and damaging it is.
Can we just talk about the music though? Pasek and Paul are amazing. Even in the midst of the incredibly awkward narrative with a lead you don’t really feel like rooting for, the songs do what they’re supposed to do and more. The emotional ones, which is the majority of them, hit HARD. Every single one could make you break down and cry