THE IDOL is a Dumpster Fire | Explained
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
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Our expectations were low but... that finale is worse than I could have imagined
Remember that I chose to go watch The Weeknd hock a loogie instead of swimming in the Mediterranean Sea
Wonder what Sam Levinson will get up to with Euphoria Season 3...
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Seems like the director who took over just wanted to say a “what if Me Too was just lies, and the abusers were the real victims?”, which is…incredibly gross, and makes me worry about what he might be doing
for real, someone needs to be checking Sam Levinson's browser history 🤢
Didn’t one of the actresses on Euphoria speak out against him for the way she was treated after asking to do less topless scenes?
@@oeurydice I didn’t hear about that…but I guess that makes sense, all things considered
@@oeurydice yeah it was the blonde one i think whos a model. shes apparently topless like every other episode.
@@oeurydice if you’re talking about Sydney Sweeney, she asked to do less nudity scenes and Levinson did back down. But there’s still a lot of nudity in the show, so it’s like he’s testing the redline and see how far he can push the actors. I don’t know what would be filmed if the actors don’t push back…
If The Weeknd actually thinks Tedros was the victim, I just know he has some other opinions on abuse we probably don't want to hear.
Fr
But when was tedros the victim? It just showed that jocelyn was a bad person too ?
@@foxxy111 Jocelyn took over his cult and controlled him like a puppet. The "plot twist" showed that she lied and was in control the whole time. It's not even a "both sides" situation, just manipulative Jocelyn vs. played Tedros.
@@mhawang8204how is tedros the victim when he grooms, kidnaps and abuses people. Everything he did to Jocelyn was abusive in his eyes. He thought he was exploiting someones trauma, it doesn't matter if that was true or not because his intention was the hurt and control
His music has similar themes that have never rubbed me the right way... D'angelo Wallace has a great video about his album 'After Hours' and while I love the album the themes and story are genuinely messed up.
Even if Jocelyn did manipulate Tedros it doesn't change the fact that he was still abusive towards her...abuse victims can act manipulative as a survival tactic, but I doubt that the show can understand or handle any kind of nuance like that.
exactly
Say it louder!!
That part! She lied but that doesn’t excuse his behavior!
That is how abusers justify things to themselves, their partner isn't perfect so they are allowed to be abusive.
I wouldn’t trust rolling stone on anything Depp. They have a weird vendetta
The fact that they revealed that Chloe was underage, RIGHT after they showed her naked, just made me sick to my stomach. And even worse, her being a minor didn't even have any bearing on the story, she easily could have been in her early 20s.
It definitely ads to the type of person Tedros is, the level of shitty - but no reason to have her be as clotheless as she usually is on the show if they wanna say she's 17 (obviously the actress is of age)
It's Sam Levinson guys, I was surprised we didn't had more of it, when she tells her age I was like: of fu*ing course Sam!
When is Sam Levinson going to get cancelled?
no no god please no 🤮
it really is the whole "edgy for the sake of being edgy" thing and its the EXACT same problem as with Euphoria. Both characters are around 16/17 when theres no reason not to be 18+...its Levinson wants it to be close enough to legal but just far enough away for it to clearly still be a minor and not ok. him and Able told on themselves with this and on the one hand, glad we can start disregarding their work, on the other, wish i didnt know any of it
Here's to hoping Sam Levinson isn't allowed full reign over a show ever again because his fixation with underage nudity is massively gross. Truly bless you, Amanda, for forcing yourself to watch this for our pleasure
I have no evidence that Levinson has committed some kind of abuse against women but I would wager everything I have that he has.
@@jkfeckealso the actresses keep saying that they're comfortable and ok with it, but like if majority of your talent has to clarify statements about you on top of the fact that they will likely get blacklisted if they don't is just sketchy
@@jkfecke Judging from how his actresses like Barbie Ferreira talk about how uncomfortable they are around him, I would also bet he has.
In 10 years they're going to find child p*rnography on sam levinson's computer and everybody is going to be soooo shocked
@@hashtagmate I hate how true this is lmfao like he is so stereotypical in his gross behavior and projections
“Yeah, there are bad guys like Tedros who hurt women, but maybe, like, the women actually like it and are the truly manipulative ones.” Sam and the Weekend, probably.
We will never escape the fallout of the Depp-Heard trial
I really think that's the thing because how are they saying he's the victim? It has to be they really think women who are abused are just into it.
They never said he is the victim. The director said Abel’a character ended up being the victim after Jocelyn realizes his manipulation and plays his own game against him.
@@ishtisikder539 this still fits with what I said about the text of the narrative.
@@ishtisikder539 those are the exact words they use - “he ends up a victim.” They don’t even frame Jocelyn’s actions as her fighting against Tedros’ abuse, but as evidence of her being the master abuser the whole time. Which is the same old excuse that gets broken out every time a woman comes forward with allegations.
The fact that Sam and The Weeknd thought that the original was leaning "too much into female perspective" so they decided to turn the woman into the manipulating villain and the creepy, cult leader freak into a victim is all we need to know. God forbid they would show men actually being abusive for women in the show business.
amen. i wont be watching anything he is even tangentially involved with. he very clearly doesnt respect women as human beings
Also the line "He's so rapey." "I kinda like that about him"... like... wow r/menwritingwomen...
@@sarah-louisedominique24502 out of the 5 writers were women. Cry harder.
@@ToxicHAL you actually gonna provide details or just gonna sit and be keyboard prick?
@@ToxicHAL*hugs* You is smart, you is kind, you is important. *pats back* It's ok!
jfc. Set Jocelyn aside for a second... Tedros still has a history of violence, kidnapping, manipulating vulnerable people, and grooming minors. Also from Tedros point of view he was absolutely trying to abuse and manipulate Jocelyn. He did stuff with full intention of triggering her trauma as a form of control. Just because he's pathetic scum doesn't mean his actions are not abusive. On what delusional planet would he ever be the victim? Also what price did he pay? He ends up as Jocelyn's sugar baby... wow. The horror. That poor guy. This seems like the fantasy of an abusive man who wants to treat women like trash while framing themselves as the real victim. Literally wanna puke. This really tells you what kind of people Sam Levinson and the Weeknd are, huh.
Yep. Tedros is a victim because he doesn't have complete control over other people anymore... that's it.
Them claiming he was the victim is exactly how abusers justify their abuse, if their partner isn't perfect then they weren't wrong to be abusive. They revealed a page from their playbook.
It's the catch-22 of victimization: if a women didn't fight back against abuse, it's used as proof that she was never abused. If she did fight back, it's used as proof that she was the abuser all along
@@failedrevolutionary9497 exactly
yesssss exactly. Such a fucked up narrative to put out
They never claimed anything as such. Abel’s character ended up being a “victim” cause the lead actress (Jocelyn) understands his manipulation and plays his own game against him. What are you people on ?
@@ishtisikder539 that is not what being victim means. what weeknd's characters got is comeuppance, not victimhood. do you think rapists who go to jail are also "victims" bc they got incarcerated? do you think cult leaders who get sued are "victims" too? you are so weird all over this comment thread. why are you so adamant on defending this shit show? what are *you* on?
The worst part is that you can see where the original director’s vision comes through, like when Jocelyn breaks down and calls out for her mom. But nope, Sam Levinson and The Weeknd had to ruin it.
I feel like this show could have been so good and could have been a dark exploration of mental health, abuse and stardom and instead we got… whatever the hell we got.
My personal theory is that the whole video shoot sequence is from the first version of the show.
I thought that too... It genuinely could have been super good, with the music video sequence and the very first sequence where they're hiding the leaked photo. Those genuinely had potential and I found myself genuinely intrigued, but the moment the Weeknd and his stupid fucking rat tail came on screen the unique, dark vibes were ruined.
That’s literally the only decent scene in the show.
@@harnessmadeofhopes right??? There’s nothing I love more than a slightly manipulative, traumatised and interesting female character with a bunch of insecurities that she tries and fails to hide and when they showed her doing all those expressions I was both like “okay Lily Rose, I see some ACTING” and also ooh where is this going? The team hiding the photo news scene was intriguing because I was curious about why they weren’t telling her and thought it could be an interesting insight into celeb teams (similar to Unreal having the absolute worst people working in reality TV) and the way Jocelyn reacted to the violation was also interesting and I was so damn intrigued.
Then instead of all that potential we end up with Jocelyn’s every move being so creepily sexualised I can’t imagine her even being able to have young fans (and didn’t they say she did?) and The Weekend shows up and I’m somehow both bored and creeped out and I just gave up when she started trying to ch*ke herself because it was the most gratuitous thing I’ve seen since all the Sydney Sweeney scenes in Euphoria. I want the psychological intrigue of a celebrity breaking down and falling into an abusive relationship. I’m not even mad about the twist- it’s entirely my sort of vibe- for me Levinson’s misogyny just permeates the whole thing and makes it feel unrealistic and gross. It just reminds me of how Woody Allen makes every film he does about age gap relationships and creepy men. Rant over, sorry!
Oh also the intimacy coordinator stuff that pisses me off that they’re ignoring is that THE CREW doesn’t need to be subjected to ppl’s exploration of their sexuality in front of us without us KNOWINGLY CONSENTING first. Crews normally don’t mind but it’s fucking ridiculous and weird of artists to think they have the absolute right to flash ppl at work whenever they feel like it. It’s just deep disrespect and lack of courtesy to the fact that this is our normal day job and workplace where basic consideration should exist.
Levinson has never appeared to understand that crew members are humans.
Levinson’s shows come off as nonconsenually voyeuristic because of this, in my opinion. It feels like we’re being exposed to somebody’s creepy fetish.
So much this. The artist and the Director, are not the only people in the room. It really feels like they either forgot that the crew are real people who need to consent as well, or they just don’t care
Yes exactly. It’s not just Joslyne. It’s everyone there. I bet not everyone is comfortable taking pictures or being part of a photoshoot with nudity in it. Not just that, but a single day is what it would have taken to rewrite the contract. Thereby abiding by rules that is supposed to keep every single person there safe (or safer exploitation doesn’t magically disappear unfortunately). That’s not long to wait for something so important.
THIS!!!
Flashback to the one Euphoria line where Maddie had her first sexual experience with an older dude at 14 years old, but "she was in control the whole time". At the time, I interpreted the line as Rue's unreliable narration as a traumatized teenager who doesn't really understand the nuance that a child can never give consent to an adult and can never be in control of sex with an adult.
Yea, I gave Samson way too much credit. After struggling through this mess of a show, he 100% comes across as thinking a 14 yo being provocative and adultified is "tricking" older men and somehow empowering.
riiiight i thought "oh of course because Rue is narrating and narration isn't always reliable. these are supposed to be kids" but now im a bit freaked out and i won't be surprised if some alligations against Sam come out in the future
Whenever i see how Jocelyn is potrayed as the one manipulating, i always think of this line. Whenever i think of Jocelyn wanting to get more and more naked to be free, i remember that maddy scene
Yeahhhhh he seems a little…. Creepy
I don’t want to speak for women, but even as a straight dude, seeing female actresses hyper-sexualized for weirdos like Sam Levinson always makes me uncomfortable. That was my main problem with Euphoria, especially since the characters in that show were supposed to be minors.
amen brother
as an ace woman who knows many other women, it bothers us just the same but we're all alos concerned with the underage bit. thats honestly the more disturbing part because it really does seem like he does want a female character to be sexy unless theyre traumatized and underage.....ugh
I remember Sydney doing an interview and talking about how Sam is respectful of what she asks for on Euphoria. But she also mentioned that there were scenes where Cassie's supposed to be topless and she'd tell him that she didn't think that was necessary for the scene, and he'd be okay with it. But that's still wild because Cassie's topless a lot throughout Euphoria. She tried to walk that statement back and say that she'd never asked him that and she was just trying to show how respectful he's, but it was her own words rather than people twisting them.
💯 agree
As a man you need to talk about this because they will only listen to other men 😂 so thanks for talking about that! It's so weird why is he so obsessed with underage girls 😭😭😭
The thing I don’t understand is how the brush reveal was supposed to work narratively.
1) why didn’t tedros notice it was new when he beat her w it earlier?
2) if the brush still looked new after he beat her with it, who’s to say the abuse w her mom didn’t happen? All we really learned from the ‘twist’ is that her hair brush is sturdy and well made.
I took it to mean that she bought a new one for him to use on her and she got rid of the one her mom used
There is a therapist that did reaction videos to this and I believe that this is what she said about the ending. That she saw it as Jocelyn's way to say that she's choosing to continue the relationship with Tedros, which had a lot of commons with her relationship to her mother
I feel seen
@@minajones8341 exactly, because almost no one is going to have that exact same brush still, why would it be sitting around.....you would get something similar AFTER deciding to use it.
That is exactly what i was thinking. He used the brush on her once, why didnt he notice it then? This part reeks of sam levinson changing the initial story to fit his narrative. And good God did the weeknd's credibility and reputation tank after this shit that he pulled
I'm imagining Levison being so proud and thinking he's so smart and revolutionary for using the old "crazy manipulative woman" trope.
Like Amenda said, it thinks it’s Gone Girl but it’s just subpar Basic Instinct with more cringe.
Other characters besides Jocelyn pointed out that her mother wasn't a good person, but we still got that "she lied about the abuse" 'twist'
Yeah, that's bad writing.
This show reads like an abuser writing fan-fic justifying their abusive behaviors
This is going to sound kinda silly but it reminds me of gossip girl. The writers were so desperate for the final twist to be a surprise that, when fans figured it out, they changed it even though it’s literally impossible.
@@8teezy I think there was even an interview where the actor that was "Gossip Girl" pointed out how little sense it made
@@8teezyI remember that the true gossip girl wasn’t suppose to be the one we got. The real gossip girl could have been two other characters, but they were inconvenienced.
I think a different ending would've made the show a loss but the whole victim-is-the-manipulator twist is what tanks it beyond bottom tier.
It was definitely a vanity project for the weeknd and I’m glad he got humbled real quick, the most egregious thing to me is that he legitimately thought he had the personality and charisma to lead a show when the best parts about the show that have a sliver of something interesting is when he’s not in it, and he had the nerve to act like he was dunking on rolling stone for that exposé only AGAIN to get humbled, and Sam levinson is just a hack, he thought he had another hit bc of euphoria and got HUMBLED, thank fvcking god no one watched this pos
And really Euphoria is only good b/c of Zendaya and her effort to the role and others within it
Unfortunately I believe that both of those guys are so high on their own farts that neither of them got humbled
@@novacanneI wouldn't exactly classify that as being humbled. If anything, quite the opposite.
Didn't he even supposedly meet with Britney Spears to talk about the show? Imagine meeting an actual pop icon who survived abuse , talking to her and then coming up with whatever The Idol is.
I’m mad at how much potential this show had
i'm mad you thought it had potential.
@@druid4835the original version definitely had potential
It definitely did and I feel even this version has glimmers of it in the trash but... holy shit they dive bomb it
Mfw the series wasn't able to spread that tiny little potential
I want to see the original director’s cut.
The show could have been like the HBO version of Perfect Blue with an artist and her mental struggles, but Sam Levinson took over and we know what that means
Perfect Blue is a masterpiece, that would’ve been so cool
Exactly!! I thought they would lean into something like that.
What's so frustrating is that it could have really worked. But oh well, we got this in the end lmao
Yeah. I could picture Jocelyn being in a mental struggle but slowly losing herself to the cult & being a siren luring all her fans in too. It could've been dramatic, emotional, & scary.
Oshi No Ko has been doing interesting things with that this spring, I have heard it compared to Perfect Blue actually
I guess, but why not Just... watch Perfect Blue? It makes sense to talk about the sexual abuse and abuse in the industry. But make it your own thing makes more sense. Perfect Blue is more about the idol level of innocence and one of her staff members obsession around it, rather than multiple staff members being unhinged and thinking they know best how to produce a star.
The way male anxiety about being manipulated by white Blonde women creates such boring art >.< You are so brave for this one Amanda.
At first I really thought it was just a poor attempt to jump on the ‘good for her’ movement of media where the take away really shouldn’t be ‘good for her’ for whatever reason (gone girl, midsommar..) - but then Levinson tosses out all that victim bullshit and it makes the framing all sssooooo much worse
@@AmandaTheJedi I think the problem is that the interpretation of much of this film was warped by what the director said about Tedros "ending up as the victim". I think that is a gross mischaracterization of what actually happens. I understand that this would put many people off, but it is unfair to judge the whole show based on this.
The way black male anxiety about being manipulated by white blonde women creates such boring art.
I was at one of the Weeknd's shows they used as a budget prop haha.
...okay two, I was at two of them.
Was the audience aware that this was happening? I wonder how they got away with it lol
Hopefully they were good one’s, apparently he had to cut one short after they shot the scene because he couldn’t sing properly as The Weeknd after playing Tedros who can’t sing.
I would have loved to hit up a Weeknd concert but now I think I need at least 6 months before looking at him doesn’t make me physically recoil.
@@AmandaTheJedi You lost, his show is euphoric
@@AmandaTheJedi I've only watched reactions and I need at least 6 months, I swear that man flashes in front of my eyes sometimes and I get such an ick
@@VioletVolchok it happened RIGHT before he went on stage (both shows), and lasted no more than 15 seconds. It was obvious what was happening but it was way too quick for anyone to react let alone object.
I love that the "real victim" is the guy whose abuse was revealed to the world. Like somehow if your life is ruined when people learn about your own actions it makes you the victim?
The director is setting this narrative for when his turn comes I bet
There are actually horrible ppl who believe this to be the case. Especially in r*** and inc**t cases
Well… Deciding to depict undressed underage girls, victims lying about parental abuse for personal gain, false sexual assault allegations in Hollywood, a pimp/trafficker/cult leader/ torturer/abuser as a victim, and the narrative that abuse/pain does in fact make artist better at their craft is definitely a choice…this show makes me feel gross.
huh its almost like hollywood wants us to believe they arent pedos. maybe thats why they are trying to silence the movie tthe sound of freedom so badly
this is show business
@alanscytowski2964 Not entirely true. Not everyone is an a-hole when it comes to this type of industry.. just over 50% of it which makes it so terrible and scary.
@@Asmax120 Exactly! The show is supposed to be a raw and unvarnished look at the music industry and how it commodifies and exploits young talented people. It is supposed to be jarring and unsettling. That is art. I thought this show was a masterpiece and one of the best I have seen in years.
anyone who knowingly inflicts psychological or physical harm on a person they assume is unknowing/unconsenting is an abuser period. no twist can change that and nothing that happened to tedros, even out of context, comes anywhere close to any kind of abuse he inflicted
THIS!!! You put into words what I’ve been feeling about the “twist.” It literally doesn’t matter that Jocelyn knew he was manipulating her ‘cause he was still knowingly, intentionally being abusive toward her and actively attempting to manipulate her, without her consent. That makes him abusive and manipulative. And why does Levinson just act like him having gone to prison for kidnapping and abusing another woman is just something “in his past” and he’s actually a victim when he gets his due for the crimes he’s done??? What?????
@@thylionheart i saw a comment on reddit saying they felt sorry for tedros for losing control of his cult and spiraling for one day, i truly don't understand how some people's minds work
@@emokuja “I feel sorry for this abusive liar who groomed an underage girl and manipulated vulnerable people into giving up their autonomy and allowing themselves to be subjected to torture and humiliation and sexual coercion in the name of ‘art’” I hope I never meet that redditor irl because goodness gracious
in the age of fanfiction, a/b/o, monster romance, dark romance in general, and *virus-come-to-life* romance, “weird sex shit” isn’t as subversive as Sam thinks it is. Audiences are getting more and more exposed to this kind of stuff and as such they’re more vocal about what they find cringe and disturbing and what they find actually plot necessary even if it’s not their personal taste.
Exactly. The issue isn't that this show had sex in it, the issue is its story.
Fifty Shades of Gray was literally a hugely popular book and movie franchise. Say what you want about the quality and worrying undertones to the franchise, it still made a lot of this stuff depicted almost mainstream. Weird sex shit is normal at this point, and dull. You need a good story m, or you might well just commit to watching full on porn.
@@MissCaraMintNope. 50 shades and other dark romance books have nothing to do with porn. They are basic love stories, written by women for women, that contain erotic content, because that's how women fantasize. Porn is by men for men, just blatant objectification without any plot (and many times actual abuse of women) and nothing like erotic fanfiction/dark romance.
Ah yes. Yet another "Man explains womens trials and tribulations, whilst simultaneously justifying and satisfying their own k!nks and explaining that really, women are liars actually and even the worst of men are victims too!" The old classics stay so true to themselves 🙃
Right? 😵💫🥴
Ikr!
Like yes women are capable of being abusive but like come ONNN
at least write that story right
@@Gaburierairuze Exactly, to me he should have just sticked to unveiling the exploitation of fame, the whole fake victim arc sounds half baked specially when the guy IS ABUSIVE and the script likes to act like he isn't.
They never really implied that Jocelyn is lying. What am i not getting here ?
@@ishtisikder539 I think its implied through the brush. As in; she claimed the brush was used to beat her since she was a child, but at the end, it is shown that the brush is NEW, therefore it could not be used against her. Meaning she fabricated the whole thing, which in turn casts doubt on literally everything else she said and did, as well as her motivations
I do wonder how the actual on set intimacy coordinator felt about the coordinator scene. Like what the actual hell Sam?
they probably didn’t have one 🫣
@@thehalfblackprincessthey had multiple actually! Idk if that makes it better or worse
I mean... its clearly framed in the show that the coordinator is in the "right".
@@a.d.e.l.s Depends whether they were all locked in the same bathroom or each given their own, I guess?
Fr I wouldn’t be surprised if the scene was just Sam Levinson wish-fulfillment/venting
If you have a female protagonist and think that your show has “too much from the female perspective”, you have a problem.
This could’ve work if we focused completely in Jocelyn and her struggle. She just had an emotional breakdown after her mom passed, she was trying to have a comeback and was losing her chance to Dyanne, her backup dancer.
That was enough to make an amazing show, Tedros wasn’t even necessary to the story.
I would 100% watch that drama, it sounds like a great story!
The Idol is hilarious in the sense that the entire production is basically people in Hollywood and show business being terrible, abusive, wasting a lot of money, and misusing potential talent in an attempt to tell an obvious story showing that Hollywood and show business are terrible, abusive, wastes a lot of money, and misuses potential talent.
And they couldn't even get that right.
This wins as best comment. Lmfao soooo incredibly accurate 💯😂
The fact the Weeknd had to tweet about how people just didn't get it and explain every episode when they dropped, told me everything I need to know about this show
I feel like a petition needs to be started so we can get the original version of the show because it has so much potential to be a good show.
Release the saimetz cut!!!
Amy Saimetz also shot without a finished script, so my guess is the original wouldn’t be great, either. But at least she tried to make something better than this torture p*rn fantasy crap with shoddy logic.
Maybe... but it seems no one is asking the question of why HBO was willing to dump $60M+ down the drain to scrap and restart a nearly completed project.
@@jordancharles8598 bc the weeknd asked for it. you are underestimating the faith execs have in big hit a-listers if you think there are any other reasons. they thought they could sell the show through the weeknd. so many disasters have happened in movie history bc the big star actor asked for it. so many stars get their directorial debuts handed to them despite lack of experience when ppl who devote their whole lives to it get sidelined. the answer is "capitalism". they thought weeknd would sell. he thought he would sell bc he has a huge ego - always had. he did not sell.
@@mhawang8204 They could just use some creative editing to wrap it up.
"I must go now. My record label needs me."
[Note: Jocelyn died on the way to her next show]
Knowing how Levinson likes to complain about (valid) criticisms against him in his works, I genuinely think the ending was from his point of view where women are the causes of all his shortcomings...you know, just incel behavior. Update further into the video: OF COURSE Levinson is friends with Eli Roth 🤢🤮
I know Eli Roth does violent horror movies but is there a scandal about him?
Commenting because I want to know too
@@minajones8341 it's the same reasons why he is big in Bro Horror/ Torture Porn: misogyny through violence, sexulization, and horribly written women characters. He's been deemed xenophobic and sadistic as well for his films- truly, hostel and the green inferno speak for themselves. Pretty sure the Faculty of Horror explain how ick Roth is far better than I can, if you like podcasts!
Faculty of Horror episode 101: Death Trap: Saw (2004) and Hostel (2015) is the episode!! If you like your Horror podcasts to have a hint of queerness and a whole lot of comedy, Gaylords of Darkness Epidose 87: Cannibal Beat Centerfold covers the green inferno
@@caithenry8429 His movies have been too violent for me so I haven’t seen them lol. I see what you mean though
Sam thought he was making Basic Instinct; Abel thought he was making Purple Rain. They agreed to tackle themes of cult behavior, trauma, mental health, abuse, bdsm and the music industry WITHOUT so much as a Google search or nuanced approach; in the end it says so much about what they ended up with.
Sam thought he was doing Basic Instinct and was making Showgirls
Which is infuriating, Verhoeven's work is no doubt flawed, but Basic Instinct has a more feminist/gender equality instance, Michael Douglas's character ain't better than Sharon Stone's, the movie clearly points out how both men and women can be murderous and psychopathic, it ain't a sexist fest like Fatal Attraction, it actually has a lot of points about how men and women are in society.
"Sam thought he was making Basic Instinct; Abel thought he was making Purple Rain." Holy shit. SERVED!!
Some mentioned they thought that him saying Carte Blanche incorrectly was to show he was pretending to be smart. For me, I'm still baffled and confused about the ending. Because Xander said she was abused and he saw it but then he was lying? I don't. . that's a plot hole.
It can also be a callback to ShowGirls which this was supposed to be modelled after. The exploitation of women included (not in a good way, scummy director away). They HD a scene with the lead saying Versace wrong inront of snobs in an attempt to sound smart (but it was flipped to the man and apparently it was okay, but in ShowGirls she was mocked behind her back for it)
@pixiestxNyomouf Kennie JD mentioned that but I don't feel that they did it in mind of Showgirls.
@@VeronicAM313 yeah, I found it a but if a stretch too (I HATED that movie no matter how her opinion changed). Considering Sam stolen Eurphoria and rippedit off, he might mightve copiedtrash too 🤷🏿♀️ I guess it's just history repeating itself with men of power in Hollywood
As someone who has lived through abuse and is now out, I cannot fathom the idea of recreating it to make myself "more creative". Like, I know not everyone functions the same, but omg I struggled the most with my creativity and creative expression during the abuse. It's only AFTER, in the healing and knowing I'm safe, that I've been able to actually BE creative. Like goddamn
hey, but I bet you're not as edgy and cool as them! You know "mental illness is sexy", wtf.
Exactly. It's almost like they themselves are secretly trying to justify their abusive behaviors.
It's been almost a year since my abuse and I haven't been able to do anything
It's the same as the lie that writers need drugs to create; it sounds "romantic" but it's actually just a self-serving excuse.
@@ihaveanaceupmysleeveandits1611 I'm so sorry you went through that, but I hope you're out and safe! And that's totally understandable. It takes time to heal and recover, I needed a lot of time before I felt able to start creating again. I wish you well ♥️
i saw someone say this elsewhere but i want to repeat it. it's disgusting that after Jennette McCurdy bravely exposed the abuse and manipulation she suffered at the hands of her mother, Sam Levinson would create a show where a woman being abused and manipulated by her mother is shown to be lying.
This is so very true! I didn't think about that!
Yeah, the way the relationship to the mother was described reminded me of Jenette`s story immediately and I think it is gross that they twisted her story like this.
"It thinks it's doing way more than it actually is." You just described Euphoria perfectly.
And oh God poor Hank Azaria and Dan Levy. They deserves soooooo much better than this.
I actually theorize that Dan Levy used some Hollywood veto power to have his scenes cut out of the show 😂
Poor Hank Azaria, isnt he all the Simpsons who are not Dan Castellaneta?
@@alejandrocervantes3624 Pretty much.
I’m kind of glad we never see Dan Levy in the later episodes. He’s the lucky one who dipped out.
To say nothing of Divine Joy.
The whole “trauma makes your art better” thing really worries me, because that was my thought process in my late teens and early twenties. Back then, I thought if I was to write about something I had to experience it first. I had to get drunk so I could properly write a drunk character. I had to have sex with strangers to understand hookup scenes.
But as time went on, my brain only focused on understanding the trauma I didn’t have, under the guise of writing about it respectfully. It got to the point where self-harm was involved and I was genuinely thinking about subjecting myself to some of the worst things a person could go through just so I could write about it effectively.
Suffice to say, I’m on better meds now and I now realize my “method writing” was melding with my self-harming habits in a really nasty way. I understand that I’m probably a very fringe case, given my struggles with mental health, but it’s kinda scary seeing my past thought processes be echoed on screen.
I genuinely think that twist only happened bc Sam and Abel realised too late that they were the monsters their show was trying to criticise and had to try and paint Tedros and simultaneously themselves as victims.
I feel like this show went to deep into the "I'm a whore, but I'm in control because evil, even though I'm totally being exploited here" fantasy. There is no actual critical thought behind the fetishism.
SORRY for the delay on this one, so many issues getting it made but hope you enjoy! I was also absolutely shadowboxing myself with arguments and thoughts in this one so sorry if it's a bit all over the place
Yo, no need to feel bad on scheduling issues, please take your time.
Never clicked so fast tho... thank you for covering this, always adore your thoughts on media
Glad you released this video! I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this dumpster fire...
Been anticipating you dropping a review on this show. Didn't disappoint.
@@ToxicHAL It's wild that all you do is going around in other people videos, in other people comments, leaving stupid pointless arguments just for the sake of being "edgy" "TOXIC" and getting attention. Proud of you.
"Went into production before the final script had been written" as a crew member this frustrates the shit out of me. It makes everyone who works in the prep areas of film/TV job a million times harder, and we end up working ridiculous hours because the director hasn't got their "vision right" and makes crazy last minute requests and changes.
The same thing happened during Euphoria S2. Lots of waiting around and scrapped ideas + restart. The “brilliant auteur” wasting everyone’s time attitude in the industry needs to change.
"went into production before the final script had been written" same thing happened with alien 3.
@mhawang4238 they get away with it because everyone around them bends over backwards to deal/fix their incompetence and they never find out how much work and money has gone into changing everything for them (actors whims are included in this) they don't live in the real world. 100% argee with you, HODs need to have more power across the board to push back, and need to stand up for their departments.
I was literally hearing about this show, how it had a lot of unmotivated nude and sex scenes, and some really bad commentary on mental illness I was like “jeez, that sounds like Euphoria”. Usually a bad sign when your faults as an artist are so distinct and pronounced that you can call something like that. Sam Levinson sounds like a real piece of work.
I believe she was physically abused by her mom, but would actually keep and rebuy the same brush as a sadistic way to punish/motivate herself, like the scenes where she's brushing her hair. I can see why explaining something like this to tedfart would be unproductive and why she just smiled because the idea that she could be lying shows that she's just as capable of deceit and manipulation as he is.
Euphoria had that horrible scene that said something like "Maddie was 14 and had sex with a 40 year old but she was under control"
...
Now this creep writes "He is kinda rapey. Yeah i kinda like that"
(WHAT...IS...WRONG...WITH...YOU?!
the message here was : women bad, women manipulate, man who committed many crimes against people and done awful things victim 😔
literally 💀💀
And also, gross and awkward r4pey men are found hot by powerful women because reasons.
Generous of you to think this show was smart enough to even have a message
I don't think I've ever seen Amanda as frustrated with a show as she is in this video and that itself speakes volumes.
Because it had potential, but the end product turned out bad. Not even fun bad, just messy, illogically bad.
Considering they literally mention little red riding hood, they could have used that to make whatever bones they have so much better. Have Jocelyn get pulled into this because she's emotional after losing her mom with him taking her place emotionally like the wolf playing the grandmother, only for her to eventually realize what's going on and trick him "filling his stomach with stones" with the idea of the haircomb causing him to be exposed for the creep he is in the end.
I'd watch that movie
I hope this tanks Abels "acting career" and Sam settles for being a camera man instead of publishing his r*pe fantasies for his mother
2 things:
1. I’m really mad about this show just because of how much potential it had.
2. I genuinely believe Sam Levinson deserves JAIL for exploiting actresses to vicariously portray his weird porno fantasies. Either he need’s extensive therapy or some time in jail. (I prefer jail)
KennieJD tweeted that the series makes it look like Sam thinks that he’s Paul Verhoeven when ‘Showgirls’ came out and she’s so right. Sam and Abel made a series that wanted to give off the same vibes and controversy as Showgirls but their shitty writing and constant objectification of their female characters led to an absolute shit show.
It’s like they wanted to make showgirls without the over the top campy nature of it which is why it works and why most people I know like it. Instead they wanted to nudity and sex but make it terribly serious. I’ve noticed Sam tends to take situations that could be reality (drug abuse and creepy older men) but add so many layers and other plots that it becomes so out there it no longer feels realistic. Which is why it should have been campy and not serious
Sam Levinson talking about how Tedros is the real victim and that Jocelyn was in control all along with absolute sincerity just makes me think about that scene in Euphoria where Rue talks about when Maddy lost her virginity at 14 to a grown man but Rue assures the audience “She was completely in control.”
That’s not a fucking coincidence
i’m so glad someone else said this
Fun fact: people in Ethiopia don't use surnames, instead using their father's name as a surname that however goes in front of their actual name. So Tedros Tedros basically means "Tedros, son of Tedros" and is a legit name. It could even be a neat sort of metatextual subversion, wherein Tedros' fake identity is basically The Weeknd, up to and including being Ethiopian... But somehow I don't think the show is that smart.
The first half of Episode 2 really showed us how much potential this series had. How Jocelyn gets pushed close to another mental breakdown and just how much her mother's death affected her, while also showing how much trauma her body goes through was really upsetting in the best way possible.
It's particularly sad because Lily Rose Depp was phenomenal in those scenes and it could have really helped her gain respect as an actress, now her debut will be remembered as this clusterfuck
I mean this is hardly her debut
@@dysmissme7343yeah but her other roles were either small, or in projects that aren't widely known
Sam Levinson’s next movie is going to have a scene where a character rants about how their show is misunderstood ala Malcom and Marie.
originally i thought her only lie was the hairbursh, and they are saying she consciously recreated her own abuse… but i havent hears levinson saying tedros is a victim, that’s just… wow.
I think every HBO show suffers from the Game of Thrones Syndrome they want every show to be like thrones with the “Shock” factor but they seem to be forgetting that it’s been 10 years and we’re pretty much done with that as an audience and what we all crave is Comprehensive writing
Comprehensive writing 😭 that sounds like a really low bar. Good writing will be harder to come by considering the conditions driving the writers to strike.
Also the only reason we like game of thrones shock moments was BECAUSE the rest was comprehensive. And enjoyable. And had nice characters mixed in the with the bad guys
I don’t know why everyone is so surprised. I kinda saw it coming after how much of a mess was the writing of Euphoria season 2
I expected it to be bad, just surprised HBO is willing to sink in so much money for THIS.
I mean lily acted her ass out tbh , her case was like twilight robert pattinsons' case.
I don't think I specifically mention Lily's performance outside of the music shoot, but I'm genuinely upset they didn't let her have a better script to work
@@AmandaTheJedishe’s so good when Jocelyn is overwhelmed at the video shoot and calling for her mom.
agree, I think she could have done better if they gave her better material to work with but oh well :)
sorry for my english btw.
Nah, she was proud of this mess. She was a lot of an apologist for some messed up stuff
Not quite. Lily defended Levinson and The Weekend. She's proud of this work. In sharp contrast, Pattinson made no bones about how much he hated Edward Cullen.
I never gonna watch this show, but im a 100% sure that seeing Amanda describing it is a way better and funnier experience than any episode on it.
Same.
It’s so irritating because characters such as Leia and Destiny are amazing and some scenes like the music vid shoot are incredible but there’s so much which is just pointless. I really think that even this version could’ve been amazing if some really bad choices weren’t made
The key question I had walking away from this is, is it sexual liberation or is a woman's open sexuality being exploited? Lily, Sam and Abel can't answer this question
Werido torture porn with a budget
I blame the Safdie brothers for convincing The Weeknd that he can act 😤
I'm imagining the good version of the Idol, where the flip is Tedros wasn't her MUSICAL muse, but her MANIPULATION muse. That her obsessive side latched onto his tactics and she realized the quality of the music barely matters but the HYPE around the music can make you a legend. The STORY around the music can get you platinum. Do it like a "Bad End" Cruel Intentions type story.
But instead they did something closer to I Spit on Your Grave-style exploitation/abuse starring Dr. Luke.
To the point that "idk why she would be attracted to tedros" I will say that sometimes thats what happens in abuse. The person matched whatever imprint youve got in your body and you want it, even if theres no apparent reason to be attracted. People from my life used to say "Idk what you see in him" when I was in an abusive relationship and now that im out of it and see it for what it was I agree with those folks, but there was a time that I was absolutely obsessed with someone icky 🤷🏽♀️. They could of done something there with that angle of abuse in this show, and you know maybe that would be a meaninful message that came out of the story...but seems like it was not the case.
I haven't watched the show but I'm struggling to see exactly what Jocelyn got out of any this? She was "manipulating" Tedros into... what? He was ultimately the victim of... what? She got what she wanted which was WHAT???
Really says something about The Weekend and Sam Levinson when they try to portray a fricking _intimacy coordinator_ as the bad guy in a scene regarding the safety and comfort of a client. All the unnecessary nude scenes in the film really concern me because now I'm wondering if there even _was_ an intimacy coordinator on set for this show.
It's kind of amazing to me when creeps tell on themselves so openly
YES ROAST THIS DUMPSTER FIRE!
The behind-the-scenes drama/bs really seems to show Levinson’s (& HBO’s) true colours.
One of my parents broke the handle on a wooden hairbrush when I was a child. In a fit of rage and frustration they hit me in the head with part of it as hard as they could. It's been more than 20 years, to this day a cannot allow anyone near my head with a brush, not even a hair dresser.
That this show tried to take something similar and say 'let me do it to you again but use it as ✨️inspiration✨️' makes me feel physically ill.
Bonus points: as I said there in hysterical tears because I had *just been hit in the head with a solid chunk of wood by an adult while I hadn't even reached my 10th birthday*, I was told it was my fault for having thick hair and that's what caused the brush to break.
Edit: grammar
I hate the "mental illness is sexy" line so much. There's scientific proof that there's a link between creativity and mental illnesses, but glamorizing it is dangerous. Depression, ADHD, and OCD have become styles. People living with them aren't taken seriously because of all the people claiming to have them for clout.
I wish Amanda didn't have to watch this but also need to see her reaction to how Not Okay these straights are.
I would pay money to see all the unreleased content the got scraped after Levinson took over
So there is definitely a point being made about the similarities between pornography and idol culture either with how plastic it is or how exploitive it is which also explains a lot of the sexual elements in the show..... But my god is it so male-gazy, sexualizing all the wrong parts and with the twist ending and especially with the director comments its just comes off as sexist and honestly kinda rape-y rather then provocative and thoughtful
I love how he totally framed her ex boyfriend with false allegations and she shows emotion and seems totally done with him. Then she does Nothing to help, and gets back with him at the end anyway lol
how exactly is she supposed to help him, she wasn't a witness. I don't understand why he even asked her to go on the record (what is she supposed to say), he should be trying to contact Xander who was the one who took the photo and knows for a fact that he is innocent. Jocelyn doesn't know 100% that he is, she just believe he is.
i thought that the point was that she wanted tedros to do this, she wanted her ex boyfriends career destroyed because he cheated on her? she acted upset because she wanted to show tedros that she's in charge and can easily get rid of him. idk if she's dark Jocelyn, this manipulator who's in control the whole time that's the only thing that makes sense.
@@aurablue368 I thought Xander set it up and then lied to Leia and tried to blame Jocelyn. The way he said, "oh no" when he knows for a fact that the guy was innocent, he was acting like he believed he did r*pe that girl and that he was just hiding his true nature. Xander is the main person to blame for that in my opinion.
@tagz12345 hmm yeah perhaps..i just thought jocelyn invited over for that reason, like to spite tedros and because she knew he'd try to ruin him.. idk the show is nonsensical anyway
I will say this show did show Lily-Rose Depp has some serious talent, like she knocked it out of the park in that music video scene, I hope she gets more cool opportunities in the future
I hoping that the scripts of the original vision get released. Even if it would've been a story of how a pop star was exploited, I'm curious as to why they didn't go with it & how it compared to what was released.
The original director was working with an unfinished script, though. But those now redacted bts photos at least look fun, not this pretentious crap.
At 42 minutes … “write better” your delivery had me literally spitting out my coffee! Such a great review. There is no excuse for lazy writing! It’s unforgivable that this stuff gets green-lit all the way to our screens. Like. How?!
saw a tweet saying this show made them think of the weekend a different person to the point they cant listen to his songs anymore and i relate so muchT^T i kept being reminded of his cringe ass scenes i just cant
Thank you for summarizing all this for those of us who don’t want to watch this but are still curious. We owe you one
The message that "female abuse victims were actually the abusers the whole time" is really disgusting considering the times we live in. That’s one hell of an awful morale, especially since Lily-Rose is the daughter of one of the latest abuser who benefited from those beliefs.
yes, I hate how Tedros is a confirmed abuser, served 6yr in prison for assaulting women, kidnapped and beat his ex for 3 days and then Destiny just dismisses it by saying everyone has a "past." It just highlights how people have such a forgiving attitude to men who have committed abuse. Chris Brown and Amber Heard's psycho ex-husband are living proof of that.
And also how Jocelyn is somehow being held responsible for her ex being falsely accused of r*pe even though we know that two men (Xander and Tedros) were the ones orchestrating it. This show just loved to try to blame women for things that weren't their fault, andI found it absolutely ridiculous that Jocelyn was presented as the master manipulator despite us seeing the truth. People just love to paint women as villains it seems.
I do agree with your first statement but.. Amber Heard was indeed the abuser all along. Did you not see all the evidence presented in court? That doesn't mean that Depp was 100% innocent but Heard was AN ABUSER
I was agreeing with you in the first half. Lol
@@MarkelleRayneeSheree what do you mean?
It reminds me of how Cassie ended up being portrayed as the villain of Euphoria S2, with absolutely no-one in-universe being concerned for her, despite the fact that she was a teenage girl in a relationship with a known abuser. No-one is worried that Nate will physically hurt or kill her. They're just all shaming her for being ~insane~ and a bad friend.
I could get on board with a storyline of a popstar being willing to do anything for her career/fame, including manipulating the people around her and burning bridges. Like, Jocelyn being aware of how bad of a person Tedros is but pretending to be in love with him and excusing his actions to get his connections and talented team before kicking him to the curb could have been a really interesting story. But if Jocelyn is this master manipulator that lined up all the pieces to get herself back on top, why would she publicly announce to the world that she's in love with a man that was just exposed as being a pimp, abuser, criminal, etc. etc. etc.? The ending wants us to think she was this evil genius that was one step ahead of everything, but then has her do something that would immediately ruin her career again. Even if she had die hard fans that would defend her, the general public would turn on her so fast after that. It makes no sense in the story they're trying to tell, but it makes us feel bad for the abuser and that was obviously their goal. They wanted to show that the girl was actually the evil one and the guy who abused her and others is just her innocent victim that we should feel sorry for. Are you kidding me.
7:20 WAIT WAIT WAIT SO THIS IS JUST HOW IT WAS WRITTEN???? Oh now I’m heated
APPARENTLY!
I literally thought I was stupid because I didn’t understand the ending. Turns out Abel was just being silly x
I absolutely loved laughing at how bad it was every week , my sister was unwell the week of the 4th episode so I advised her to watch people recapping the show (these were soo entertaining) she was laughing so hard it laughed a kidney infection away 😂
The parallel with Basic Instinct works only as far as the fact that Sharon Stone states thats she was lied to about how much would be exposed in the famous leg crossing scene, down to being literally talked out of her underwear because it would show up poorly for a different angle. So yeah, you get the exploitation of a woman's body by those in charge of a project.
Everything I know about The Idol I learned against my will. Except for this video.
They did it really poorly but I think what the idol was going for was a story about a gross toxic guy that thinks he’s in control of this vulnerable pop star but then by the end it’s supposed to be a flip moment realizing the story was actually always about a pop star in control of this toxic guy and her ability to manipulate him into not realizing he was being manipulated but like you said done horribly
Or they wanted to do the Amber heard case but instead of actors with The music industry.
Done well this idea of the manipulative pop star could have worked.
But needed to made by a likable director and have a likable actor.
Sorry feminists i belive JD is innocent.
I dont know the behind the scenes dramas with Sam Levinson and the weekend but now i know did something awful.
I never watched euphoria or listened much of the weekend
's music so dont investigate much about them.
Anyway too bad something with great potential went totally wrong
Euphoria met 365 Days and Show Girls, except they didn't get along and got into a fight,
and thus, The Idol 2023 was born.
Honestly, this seems like Abel/The Weeknd and Sam Levinson accidently exposing themselves. I just feel bad for Rachel Sennott. She deserves so much better than this trash
I just read a report that they wanted to include way more torture porn scenes but they cut it/ didn't shoot it
The Weekend has always creeped me out and I get the vibes that if ppl didnt think he was a good singer he would be like this character in real life haha
At no point could I predict where this show was going, but not in like a good, smart, fun way... more in like a "how does this keep getting worse" way
I couldn’t even finish the first episode but I do think Lily Rose Depp is a good actress. I just felt the male gaze and writing to the point where it creeped me out.
"I'm mostly okay" feels like it really sums it up
Anyone else wonder if they rewrote the story to make Jocelyn the villain based on the fact that Lily Rose Depp's father had a similar situation play out in court about a year ago and they were hoping to capitalise on it? No? Just me? 🤔
Well now that I think about it.. shit😅
omg, hearing how there was BUBBLEGUM ASTHETICS in the earlier version, the satire would have come across much clearer! the script and lines in the first episode would have made much more sense!
If any of you are interested in the Idol story done right, watch Perfect Blue. It’s an incredible movie about how idols are dehumanized by their fans and exploited by their superiors
it must’ve been awkward watching those eps at the cannes festival 😭 or maybe it was better bc at least there’s solidarity in the audience
My favorite thing about this show ending was knowing I would get your commentary on the show so I wouldnt have to dare to watch it at all! Thank you!!!!
I just don't understand how implying that the victim was actually manipulating their abuser changes anything, like the abuser was still abusive?? Why did they think it was some edgy big gotcha moment?