If this report is true, that Deep Silver wanted Volition to make a Saints Row game with more of a focus on friendship when the devs initially wanted to make a game focused on gang-warfare inspired by Saints Row 2, man, talk about being absolutely clueless about your own IPs. PATREON: www.patreon.com/yongyea TWITTER: twitter.com/yongyea INSTAGRAM: instagram.com/yong_yea TIKTOK: www.tiktok.com/@yongyea TOP PATRONS [CIPHER] - Waning Zane [BIG BOSS] - Devon B - Jonathan Ball [BOSS] - Gerardo Andrade - Michael Redmond - Peter Vrba [LEGENDARY] - BattleBladeWar
The worst part about this is that the publisher will take this as "Yep see, Saints Row doesn't sell." Instead of the lesson that should be learned which is don't mess up a franchises identity.
It’s so funny because I feel like fans have voiced this opinion enough, where we don’t like the direction and the publishers take it as we don’t like the series… but they just don’t listen and stop series regardless💀💀like bro listen to us
@@phantomreaver85 Because in reality games are art and art is connected to their makers. And now we have either some politics obsessed officers or money-hungry execs making decisions. That's why. It's not that they are not listening it's just that they don't care.
That's because the suits are fucking buffoons who only care about money. This is why the world will become so much better when the younger Gen Z/Millennial crowd who actually grew up loving and playing these games take over these C-suite and investor-level positions of influence.
A lot of higher ups and rich people have too much ego and thinking they know it all anyway. Happens to every industries/offices most of these people is the reason of downfall of their products yet many dont see it until it fall down anyway.
Not really cause it is happening all over the place in the corporate world. Every sector has some bean counter or whatever position thinking s/he knows best when said person has absolutely zero clue of what's going on due to delusion and/or being separated by 20 levels of bureaucratic bs from the workers and consumers.
@@skyuruI mean they can't really attack the actual numbskulls being their boss. Sometimes the higher ups are a bunch of absolute idiots and you're forced to defend a crap product because ultimately it's your paycheck on the line
Yep, They claimed their old games are made for terrorists, yet Flippy is trying to convince us that the devs also intended on making the reboot essentially "Terrorist-Game.2.5"? Something's not adding up with that bullshit!
F1ppy was in the volition creator program. He had to sign an NDA Multiple times over the years. He was offered another one just a couple weeks ago and declined to sign it. That is the reason he is able to even talk about this stuff in the first place.
Reminds me of a Frank Zappa interview where he says the 60s produced such good music bc the record label heads didn't pretend to like or understand the music, they just knew it sold and that the kids liked it. Once the suits pretended that they had the finger on the pulse of pop culture, and believed they could judge what people would like, it was all over for popular art
Even that is better than what we have now. It is one thing having an executive meddle because they think it will sell better and be wrong, but a much worse one is when they meddle for cultural reasons knowing the fans explicitly do not want that and to change the fanbase.
Difference here is that artists and bands still have direct control most of the time for their music since they are the only ones making the product - in this case the music. Most of the time execs and suits typically try to push an annual album release; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Kind of hard to go that in gaming when the suits and execs are the ones funding the budget for games and demanding a good product before it even completes the alpha.
Pop music is pretty lame now but music overall is in a way better place. The amount of variety we have because of music availability is incredible. We can listen to more than ever before!
I have to wonder... Volition could probably not be at fault here, at least directly. Probably Volition's HR staff got replaced by Deep Silver to a more "open and welcome" personnel, which led to the infamous tweets that attack the fans, or it was actually done by Deep Silver themselves. I mean, Volition had a consistent tone in their tweets that was for the fans up until that point.
@@MrHocotateFreight Venture Brothers had the best version of that. "If I through this pen at your head, you gonna be angry with me or have it out with the pen."
I think the great problem with ESG developers is that is becoming clear they are more worried with the ficticious "modern audiences" scores than the quality of the product. Customers are associating ESG/DEI to poor products.
as they should be associated. more often than not, the product is being made for the esg funding instead of selling it on its own merit. i'd go further and say that if you believed enough in your product to sell well, you wouldn't associate with esg for its free money at all. and i use the track record as my supporting evidence.
The thing is, there was an undercurrent of friendship, or at least comradery in most of the saints row. Friendship with Gat, shaundi, pierce and to a lesser part the rest of the gang. But it wasn't beating you over the head with it, because it was a supporting element to the gang warfare, which was the focus of 2 and 3. It was a little more obvious in 4 with some of the loyalty missions, as you helped people through their issues or just did something that made them happy, but again it wasn't the forefront.
It's not like changing the tone would have made things any better. There's still the fact the gameplay is a complete downgrade compared to any of the previous games.
@@akirajkrI'm sure it would have changed the gameplay. After Deep Silver's power grab, it's very likely that the only developers left giving a shit about developing a functioning game were the "political commissar" type.
100%. I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for them. If they got pressured into the cringe, fine, but then they viciously and repeatedly attacked anybody that pointed out that it was cringe and a poor game. They made their bed, hope they enjoy it.
You know, in quite a few ways, SR2 was about friendship. The gas in the burning pile of Brotherhood bodies was Carlos' brutal death. The Samdei got personal, kidnapping Shaundie. The Ronin killing Ayesha and incapacitating Gat made killing their leaders a personal goal instead of a chore to check off. Hell, the Boss literally tells Akuji: "Your son should have never have f*cked with my friends."
@@thehousealwayswins8398They have followers, not friends, annoying people like losers on Twitter hate each other. They always walk around with knives looking for which one of their fake friends they can stab in the back.
@@rangerv1 i see. so why did the company not denounce these statements later down the line. is that community manager still there? (or was still there i guess.)
This is so surreal for me. I live in the city where Volition is located, I had friends and mentors who worked there and they let me use Volition's studio space to shoot my Kickstarter video. This was during the Saints Row IV days. Now it's all gone. Most of the people I know left before the reboot, but I'm still ashamed of the newest game Volition released... what an absolute disgrace.
ESG scores most likely. If they have it in their practices, they will keep pushing values people dislike in order to raise their score so as to continue receiving their funding. Thinking that with the funding, they can afford to piss off their customers with messages people don't agree with while neglecting and lowering quality of their overall product, while believing they can stomach the losses. Once you lose your main customer base for good, it's effectively the end for them like what happened here.
What we often don't realize is that the activists are just one prong of the attack, people often forget the other avenue where the attack is being launched, which is Blackrock money.
@@KaosDeathLord Highly doubt the publishers are saying "OK guys, we want to push modern political narratives, make sure we do it in such a hamfisted way that everyone dislikes it!"
@@Nick-ue7iw I mean the reboot was a pretty clear cut example of "Screw you guys, we know whats best and you're nobody compared to us". So its kinda the hamfisted moral highground mentality while being COMPLETELY tonedeaf to what fans and target demographics actually want. It may not be intent to create a bad game, but it is intent to shaft and dismiss anyone who's expressed love for the OG IP. Bottomline: know your target audience, be receptive to input, don't assume you know better than the people you're banking on buying your product
If so why did the developers act so snarky and throw out the standard twitter-esque insults to people? Strong doubt the publisher is entirely to blame.
I wish this would become a trend for all games. You lie to us, you shut down. That way we'd go back to that era where games were finished and polished at launch.
@@300IQProwerWhat did they lied about in your opinion? Or are you talking about the unpolished game at launch part? It's Bethesda, it's to be expected from them lol, but they gives us pretty good games, and Starfield isn't the exception.
As long as the one shutting down is the publisher. They really are the one to blame for releasing and selling a broken product instead of just cancelling it or not sabotaging the developers.
Considering Deep Silver’s reputation is as a publisher “who will publish a game when no one else would” I’m not surprised they made this decision, this is the same publisher who released Ride to Hell: Retribution & Mighty Number 9
I am happy that they published some titles that were only on PC over to consoles. Yes, they are the European version of what Atlus Games does for Japanese imports.
@@EJ_Red Ride to Hell: Retribution is reknown for being one of worst games ever made though, it's worth looking at some of the reviews on YT because it's so hilariously bad. Mighty Number 9 was supposed to be a spiritual successor to Mega Man. "Supposed to be" as it ended up completely missing the mark in almost every single way.
Honestly, even if this is 100% true and it was Deep Silver that was responsible for the game's tone, that only excuses the cringe writing. It doesn't excuse the broken game at launch (though I wouldn't be surprised if DS rushed the release date), the boring gameplay where enemies are bullet sponges, or most importantly: the way Devs at Volition mocked and disrespected fans when we were upset over the game. I don't care if the higher ups were responsible for the initial backlash as a result of their decisions, the instant you decide to take your frustrations out on the people you're hoping will buy your product, any sympathy I have for you evaporates.
You say they are bullet sponges, but aside from the specialists (Who were ALWAYS bullet sponges) the enemies took 2 bullets from the revolver (one when fully upgraded and when you get a headshot) or 3 from the Kobra for their health bar. The "Tough" bar only added a couple more. 5 shots isn't a lot. And if you use the Stagecoach, fully upgraded, that gun killed most enemies in one shot, even with Tough bars. Again, excluding the specialists.
Never understand why these big youtubers and people with an audience just refuse to put any blame on devs ever. THEY MAKE THE GAMES. Their silence is bought with money. They see first hand these games blow but keep selling out then wanna turn around and blame the system.
Their silence is bought with contracts and non disclosure agreements they literally can't speak out they have no choice. Steph was also an employee of Deep Silver not Volition. If Mike was still alive this would of never happened.
It grinds my gears that even now, these sort of people are the type who think that they've done nothing wrong, and instead it was just because nobody wanted to play saints row. They can just do no wrong.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Volition employees the ones doubling/tripling down with horrible takes on social media lashing out against the fans? If so, still don't care about this info, because that means they still cosigned the bs.
Might have got lost on lack of direction hell. The money is spent on paying people's salaries, and if you can't organize them and have everybody working towards a goal, you'll end up having people doing nothing or just doing something that won't make it to the final version. Cutting content is fine, it's part of the process but lack of direction is on another level of wasting people's times, which to a corporation is literally money.
And half of it was recycled from the previously canceled project "Agents of Mayhem". I believe only newly installed idiots steared the ship, after the elite probably jumped it, after seeing the "course correction" by the publisher.
Exactly volition isn’t innocent either. They participate in the attack on fans. It seems like they are both trying to blame each other when in reality they are both at fault. For coming up with a stupid idea and going with it
I've always had this inexplicable "bad feeling" about Deep Silver. Like something wasn't quite right with that company. They're no EA or Activision, but they're certainly not playing with a full deck. This is a great encapsulation of that feeling. While it sucks that Deep Silver besmirched Saints Row, Volition's attitude during the whole ordeal didn't earn them much sympathy.
Do you perchance remember the "like an anime fan on prom night" trailer for Mighty No. 9? That was Deep Silver's fault. Not that Mighty No 9 itself was all that great either, but the point is I don't think your bad feeling about DS is all that inexplicable.
If you’re on about the “haters gonna hate” tweet the saints row community manager was taken up by a deep silver manager due to Idol Ninja the old mananger and guy behind the pc patch died
What makes you think Deep Silver had any impact on this game? Do you need reminding of Volitions mistake after mistake with the SR franchise? Starting off with killing Gat? If Flippy's claims of the reboot being more reminiscent of SR2 was true, it would be evident in the mechanics. Changing a developing story midway, would NOT affect it's developing gameplay too much. Problem here, is that SR2022 doesn't even compare to SR3 or 4. There's absolutely fuck all here that's even close to SR2, it doesn't have the variety of environments, NPC liveliness and interaction, almost completely void of transport, mediocre melee combat, worse ranged combat... oh wait, sorry, there is one single fucking thing that might be close to SR2 - the character creator. That's it, just that one thing, and nothing else. But hey, somehow Deep Silver came in told them to dump all the SR2-like mechanics and go with an even worse version of SR3's mechanics instead??? Suuuuuuuuure.... Overall, I fully believe Flippy is full of shite. Or maybe he is telling the truth and all the devs are just much more incompetent at their jobs than I already think they are.
Just curious though, I wonder if it was Deep Silver's actions that insulted the fan base through Volition. Probably through restructuring and replacing the PR of Volition to their more "open and accepting" personnel, which allowed them to bash on the fans in a similar yet opposite tone. I mean, the publisher is tone deaf and just thought that they're in the right to do that.
They don't actually cost that much to make. They keep saying that, but, in reality, most of that money "disappears" into the bank accounts of higher ups.
@@MrJinglejanglejingle A lot of people like to push the narrative that technology has gotten just as expensive as it is powerful but they refuse to believe it's also gotten more EFFICENT. There's like an army of free worker losers lurking everywhere just waiting to tell you "You can't criticize them! Do you know how hard it is to make games?" and then they go spend 60$ on Candycrush.
That certainly explains things. The entire game I was wondering why the dialogue and characters where written to gloss over or justify why we were criminals. Every time we did something morally dubious in a mission, it was because we where doing it to other “bad” people. The entire time I was like “We’re all gang members though?” Some of the city building aspects even allow you to objectively make the world worse by putting radioactive dumping facilities in populated areas.
Yeah, owning the bad behavior of the characters in previous games made a lot of the stuff players actually do (muggings, randomly assaulting civilians, running missions naked) feel wrong because they tried too hard to justify things.
Felt very YA novel. I remember reading The Hunger Games on a plane to see what the fuss was about and halfway through I'm just like "Oh, no good characters are ever going to kill each other or do anything reprehensible."
Yup it’s funny how it’s always the higher ups being blamed and not the new crop of untalented hacks that have polluted the industry now that it’s “cool to be a game dev”.
the reason why its now is that volition is gone so some NDAs have expired and none of the employees are worrying about loosing their job now that they don't have one.
If you want to see what’s really going on in the western industry just look at the behind the scenes footage of old bungie and compare it to the stuff they post today 😂. Bunch of people with the most useless waste of money occupations known to man that almost sound made up.
and due to that and logic saying otherwise I don;t trust the situation, I'll cling to what we knew as they got shuttered until clearer better info comes out, if more people confirm this then that's enough to shift blame IMO, right now this is a case of he said she said....
Similar thing happened to Agni Philosophy which turns out to be Forspoken , Agni had a very promising concept that grabbed a lot of people's attention back in the day .. that concept that we saw on the trailer and all of its assets was used to create Project Athia which is known today as Forspoken , you can tell Square Enix execs interfered with the idea and the creative concept that luminous productions originally had for Agni and everything was shifted to fit today's modern standards from character design to writing to the whole concept of the game .. all that led to Forspoken being a major flop which led to luminous productions being closed
I checked it out. Wow. They replaced THAT cool modern military vs magic idea with cool characters concepts and dragon for Forspoken aka THE MOST GENERIC game ever? Really?
Square Enix are legendary for their ability to f*ck games up via upper management interference. They never ever learn. They are a garbage publisher and have been for ages. Its pure luck whenever a studio manages to release a decent game without it being sabotaged by this publisher.
To think that there is a timeline where we could have gotten a Saints Row game that acted as worthy successor to Saint's Row 2, saddens me to no end. I just pray that R* is paying attention. We don't want a watered-down experience, that "Doesn't punch down" on people.
yea when the longtime lead writer left and said he didnt feel like he fits the studio anymore you know the situation is hopeless. gta 6 will also be a chant for the friendship, and not the kind that gta5 or 4 or sa had, but one where the 2 protagonists will have a serious 10 minute chat about the immorality of coffee bean business
@@kallemetsahalme5701 We have seen where GTA is going, just looking at 5 shows that clearly. They don't give a damn about 5, almost no real new stuff has been added for ages, on the contrary, things have been removed! But not in the Online version, where you HAVE to pay real money if you want to get anywhere really. They have seen the money that they got through GTA5 online and said bugger it to the offline campaign. Same happened with Red Dead Online, although it bombed, they were still pushing the same dirty schemes there.
Realistically, Saints Row, outside of Saints Row 2, has always been kind of "meh". Saints Row 1 was a bland, okay game with some glaring issues, like if you're so proud of your character customization, why can't I make my character a girl for example? I wasn't even going to, it's just glaring that they don't let you do it. Saints Row 2 was a diamond in the rough, a glorious self-aware yet not so much it beats you over the head with it game in which instead of crumpling of your car miserably pedestrians you hit will fly into orbit, go around the world and land on the nearby street lamp as you show the city's most hardened residents and rich upper classes the TRUE meaning of horror with a stolen sewage truck with character customization so good you can play as anyone from a thug so muscular they make Kratos look like Astolfo, to a femboy so feminine they make Astolfo look like Kratos, to a man so fat they simply have to be within a proximity to wherever they're robbing and any money and goods will simply head to the massive center of gravity nearby. Saints Row 3 in spite of it's technical improvements was a worse game, and in spite of it's emphasis on how WACKY it is was rather boring. GONE is the colourful and varied and just plain bigger Stillwater, in it's place is Steelport, a city consisting of boring copy-pasted apartments with the occasional boring industrial area. GONE is spraying sewage on boomers, now you have a game show where you... Do the exact same thing as in normal gameplay and kill people, but now you do it IN A WACKY COSTUME. GONE is the amazing character creation, now you have sets of clothes and it's hard to even make a generic gangsta but hey, GRAPHICS. Oh and to compensate you can buy the new costume DLCs with wacky costumes, 17 of them in fact. The new enemy types that came with each gang made the gangs more distinct but they honestly weren't enough. Also the new characters aren't really all that memorable except for Matt, the emo teen who you can recruit after defeating him in virtual reality. Even the opening sucks, before sacrificing himself to save the rest of the Saints leadership Johnny Gat says "we sold out!". Sold out? SOLD OUT?! SORRY COMRADE. I MUST BE COLOURBLIND BECAUSE ALL THIS TIME I THOUGHT OUR GANG COLOUR WAS ROYAL PURPLE WHEN IT WAS CLEARLY COMMUNIST GUERILLA RED. Oh and IT WAS BUGGIER THAN A FUCKING BRAZILIAN RAINFOREST ON RELEASE. THAT'S RIGHT, SAINTS ROW 3 RELEASED A BROKEN GAME AND PATCHED IT YEARS LATER BEFORE IT WAS COOL. Saints Row 4 was okay, it was a massive upgrade over Saints Row 3 and a decent ending for the series that even let you give Johnny Gat closure. But many of Saints Row 3's problems are still there, the customization is still dogshit, Steelport is boring, but the powers are still fun and hey, Matt's there, fittingly about the only character to debut in SR3 who makes a return as he's the only one worth remembering. In truth, Saints Row as a franchise is kind of shit. There's only one really GREAT game, Saints Row 2 and even then the PC port is an infamously buggy piece of shit to this day. The Saints Row reboot never really stood a chance and even then the reboot at least brought the character customization back to the standards of Saints Row 2 and had a better setting than FUCKING STEELPORT. A sequel on the other hand would fail because there's nowhere else to go, we've fought Matrix aliens, we've invaded and taken over Hell itself to get Gat into Heaven. Time travel? Not only has Assassin's Creed already done historical settings but we've already met historical figures in Gat Out of Hell. Nothing they do is going to be an escalation. Most great game franchises don't get a chance to end, let alone end on a good note. Saints Row at least did (well at least BEFORE the reboot) and the only thing a sequel could ever accomplish is ruining even that.
Funny thing, since the 2022 is free on Playstation Plus this month. Not that I care, I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3, since I like games made by companies that actually care about making good games.
@@starkiller007 Volition had two sets of fans, fans of 1+2 and fans of 3+4, if what you say is true those two fanbases wouldn't have united in disgust for the reboot. Try again.
Publisher or not, they still treated gamers and fans very poorly. It was on them for their actions. Blame who you want, they still have to be held accountable for how they acted.
Everything but the "stop having fun" post was all done by DeepSilver. The haters gonna hate post, accusing the fanbase of being terrorists over one bad actor messaging them, the many times they said "We're not backing down on it. You want this reboot, you just don't know it yet!" was all done not only by DeepSilver, but specifically their community managed known as DeadlySteph. She has proven herself to be a detriment to this game and should not be trusted with any position of power whatsoever. With how the game came out and how so many things in it seem tailored specifically to her interests _cough_ KEVIN _cough_ I'm hedging bets on her having a way more influential role in this game's development. This game is absolute poison. It's an abomination, and a tumor that killed it's host. Rest In Peace Volition. I don't believe they're completely free of blame since they went right along with Deep Sliver's terrible plan and didn't give enough pushback, but from what I've seen playing out this entire time, Volition was merely a pawn.
@@WASTOIDSUPREMEI am so happy someone has a thinking brain, everyone is pointing & laughing at Volition when it was Deep Silver, i salute the devs & hope they get better places to work after all this.
@@spiderman265555The devs made the terrible game. Doesn't matter if the illumaniti deep silver were really behind the tweets, Volition happily took the money and made the worst possible game.
@@JDoe-gf5oz The fuck were they supposed to do? Literally quit their jobs and look for somewhere else to work instead of trying to save a game they had already worked on?
Okay but let's not forget volitions "haters gonna hate" mentality when the game was revealed and we were trying to tell them this is not what we wanted.
The problem with the reboot was never really the friendship aspect, it was the implementation of that friendship that made the game garbage. Look at the past games, all of them had heavy friendship tones throughout. The difference is that they felt meaningful, not forced or awkward like the reboot. The writing of the reboot was the primary issue, it felt like we walked into a party where everyone already knew everyone else but we were the stranger trying to keep up. This, in addition to the glaring issues with combat (Honestly the modernization attempts they implemented made things worse, I'd rather have the same old combat system than what we got) completely killed my enjoyment of the game. The frustrating thing about the game is that it felt like wasted potential, written by a team that didn't want to be there and I will never forgive Deep Silver or Volition for that.
Maybe its a lesson to media creators that the audience this tone was meant to apeal to are in fact a very small percentage of consumers, they are just very loud.
Volition still insulted its core fanbase despite not even being the old devs but independent hires. They had NO reputation to speak on things and they didn't have to prowl Twitter and attack people like they did while also going on the main official account insulting their customers. Well deserved.
@@knowledgeacquirer2931 i heard it was programmers from deep silver that snuck into volition and programmed the whole game while they away. Jokes aside, the game was a fucking terrible mess. could deep silver have had a hand in it? absolutely. until we get a deep dive or something similar from a reputable source, I'm going to take everything with a grain of salt.
@@knowledgeacquirer2931 There was one Volition developer who reposted a meme of a 2012-esque fedora wearing neckbeard telling some Saints Row 2022 players (mythical creatures) to "STOP HAVING FUN!". But other than that one guy, the rest of the damage was the Deep Silver community manager. I would not hire her for a community-driven role unless I felt like watching my company go up in flames.
@johnlabuda4315 I just played the reboot today, and it sucks ass. There's so many glitches, cringe dialog and the boss acts like their mentally challenged during the whole game.
I'm going to have to agree with a lot of other people in the comments. I really doubt that the publisher made them go on twitter and attack their own fans, hard to feel bad for a dev after that no matter how great they might at one point have been.
I disagree. Usually it's one person running the social media account, and they don't need to interact with the dev team to do it. Just look at the Sonic twitter, I doubt some of the shade that one tosses occasionally is viewed favorably by the team and SEGA themselves. Hell, for all we know, Deep Silver told the individual to stop this narrative that the game was cringe, and this was the least offending response they can make. Unless Deep Silver allows it, only one person can say shit about the game thanks to NDA, and it's the dude that ran the twitter account. Doesn't mean that it reflects the entire studio. I just don't see the entire studio being *that* out of touch that they can assume that the new cast would be looked at favorably. Suits, on the other hand...
@@kyotanaka920 There has to be some level of responsibility on the devs, though. They had a streamer mode that would just mute the audio but didn't catch an early DJ scene where the music there is claimed, the visuals were horribly dated, the only good mission I could think of is where you go around LARPing. It kind of felt like how Postal 4 ended up being but I'm almost 100% positive Saints Row 4 had x10 the budget.
I have how publishers cant just simply stay in their lanes and just publish games. let Volition do their thing. what type of brainrot did they have when they thought of turning gang war-centered games to broke as college kids and friendship?
You're correct there Yong, the cringe was too much in the reboot, i wondered why Volition went in that direction, yeah Saint Row has always been a giant parody of itself but that was too much
The public, in general, is getting pretty fed up with how out of touch studios are these days and being told to shut it when they inevitably lash out. It's active hostility towards your fans, and you can't pick and choose your fans.
Given it was the early videos with the devs that put most of us off, talking about toning it down for modern audiences, I think Volition was complicit with this new tone.
Bull. It wasn't Deep Silver employees that attacked the fans. It wasn't Deep Silver developers with the cringe interviews. The Deep Silver people may have had a hand in it but they are in no way completely or even mainly at fault.
"Might be"? Bro they literally threatened to Dox me when I joined the official saints row server and asked why the new characters had zero drip. The community managers are horrible petty people.
Just be patient. Flippy already has stated that he was under NDA from Volition and actually has inside knowledge that he will be disclosing soon. His NDA will soon expire and I’m more than positive he will make a video. Flippy is 100% credible.
Be patient about what? Are they claiming Volition is just a scapegoat and Deep Silver secretly reprogrammed the game from the ground up to be a terrible mess suitable only for redditors?
@@chainsaw8507 Is that what happened here? Have the developers put out a statement claiming they were forced to do this against their will and really wanted to make a game that wasn't pure garbage?
Nah, Volition were carrying on about how fans "didnt know what they wanted" and all that. If it wasnt their idea to change the tone, they certainly jumped on board as if it was the right idea. Blame for Volitions actions still stands.
In the Marine Corp there was a saying that applied to platoon commanders and company commanders. If you take care of the troops the mission will take care of itself.
Even if deep silver had a hand in the very bad direction the reboot took volition still acted like complete jerks to their fans so they are not really off the hook.
I don't honestly care too much why they shut down... I am just glad they shut down. I think it's hilarious. We don't often get to see such glorious pie-in-the-face moments like a studio laughing at and ridiculing their fanbase for not accepting garbage getting buried like this. I want to see this happen more. Punish the hubris.
Everyone's trying to promote this "one bad game" narrative surrounding Saint's Row failing, but Volition's last two games before that, "Gat Out Of Hell" and "Agents of Mayhem", had roughly the same metascore as Saint's Row. From the look of things, the Saint's Row formula stopped working years ago and they just couldn't stop trying to squeeze more blood from the stone, where they probably should have looked into making a different kind of game that WASN'T a zany 3D open-world action game.
Saints Row formula isn't the problem. The problem is that Volition adamantly refused to go back to the formula after 4. Which are... Surprise, Gat out of Hell and Agents of Mayham. If this nonsense is true, then that means they WAS going back to the original formula, only to be told that it wouldn't be a commercial success???
I'd somewhat disagree with that at least for Agents of Mayhem since they wanted to go a different root with that game. While there would still be some aspects of that "zany world" in there the idea was different, it's only when the suits got involved trying to force in that saints row formula/brand did it begin to fail. As for Gat out of hell I think that was more the suits wanting more Saint's Row from Volition which is why it flopped hard. Though I will admit with the reboot there no ignoring the fact that it looks like they fucked up on purpose.
I don't care what anybody says: _Gat Out of Hell_ was alright. It also wasn't a game; it was an expansion to another game that was dressed up as a standalone game.
Deep Silver may be the cause of the failure but Volition does share the blame for doing a very dumb move of mocking fans that really bit them in the butt.
Hmm, thing is.. friendship and, in some ways, family were always one of the core elements of Saint’s Row 2’s story. So if anything, it looks more like they just morphed it into the primary core of the story, rather than one if it’s tenants. An analogy to saint’s row progression through the games honestly is a lot like the Fast & Furious franchise. You had elements of family in the earlier movies, but was always about the cars. Then it became about family and now it’s a shell of it’s former self.
I don't buy it is 100% on Deep Silver. It for sure was Volition that was responsible for their own demise. Whether it was 100% or less is just technicality. They pissed on their fanbase and made a bad game. They deserved what they got.
"Might be" or that was the main reason? Devs should start to call out Publishers and investors for real if they want to bring consumers back on their side otherwise nothing will change and dev. teams will still get 💩on for a failed product.
I find this hard to believe given the attitude that Volition had when responding to the community. Not to mention the timing of this 'reveal' is a bit suspicious. Certainly doesn't make it seem like the decision was made by Deep Silver.
If this is true, it calls a lot into question with regards to the behavior of Volition staff during the period of bad PR leading up to the game. The developer seemed quite prideful and not as if they were under publisher pressure, but maybe there was a lot more going on than it seemed
Deep Sliver is known to be creatively manipulative in the past before. For starters: Dead Island 2 was supposed to be made by Techland, but due to creative differences. They left and instead created Dying Light, because they wanted their original game to be more serious and fun. When Yaeger had Dead Island 2. They also left the project back in 2015 citing that they couldn't do it due to creative differences. I remember an article saying that Deep Silver has been hard to work with in general. Known about the Flipster's Channel for years and that man is not telling any lies. I believe that Deep Sliver made these changes to have a more wider demographic. Volition had to comply or else.
This is the gaming industry in a nutshell. The people with money force creatives to make whatever they happened to think up while on one of their coke binges
You can cross out the “might” with a definitely. They wanted to change the branding color to teal instead of purple, and wanted it about friendship, not gangs.
Which is funny because friendship was a theme in all of the Saints Row games, but it was a minor theme. It was about the friendship of the gang members with the main character and each other. It enhanced the gang theme, not overrode it.
I never want to hang out with hipsters that always talk about student loans, waffles, larping, etc. I want to hang out with REAL GANGSTERS that have a burning desire of taking over the whole city that they live in.
This is just blatant copium and damage control. The game wasn't bad because of the change in tone or style. The game was bad because it was a bad game. The previous games were ultimately about a group of friends anyway, so that's not even really a change.
Something is very wrong in the game industry, when the publisher company is an investor corporation. Embracer Groups motto is buy, sell and trade. They only understand profit and have little care of what gamers want.
Deep Silver might be to blame for the game itself but that doesn't change how Volition treated its fans. Deep SIlver didn't make them do that, and now Volition has lost more than just their jobs.
It's interesting to see how Deep Silver affects their different studios. It very much seems they were up Volition's ass, even with SR 4 and AoM. Yet in the case of, say, Payday 3, it seems that they've basically just let Starbreeze get on with their vision. Actually, Payday 3's tone seems more in line with the classic Saints Row, a somewhat dark crime drama with a decent helping of comedy. Doesn't hurt that, for all their screw ups, Starbreeze clearly love their fans and haven't been insulting the fairly vocal critics if PD 3's trailers.
That's a rose tinted view. Remember how BADLY Sarbreeze screwed up with payday 2, nearly destroying the company? DS had to get involved to straighten out that mess. It sounds to me that volition was hell bent of self imploding and DS had to keep medlling to keep the lights on. Unlike starbreeze, volition couldnt figure it out.
@@Nick-ue7iw Yes, I gave Starbreeze way too much credit here in retrospect, but my point was that DS didn't seem to meddle in their affairs like they did Volition's.
They cannot simply point fingers solely at one party, because they initially blamed and attacked people who are not responsible for the quality of the game: the audience and the gamers. Whether it is Deep Silver or Volition, they are both at fault.
Imagine living in a world where a publisher can destroy an IP but it's the studio who gets shut down. Bring Volition back and deep six the publisher. Volition deserves the shot to make more great games.
Basically they wanted to do edgy humor but also safe for the “modern audience”, and that never works, safe and edge don’t mix, it’s like a child trying to show attitude but being careful because his mommy is watching.
I guess the real Saint's Row was the friends we made along the way...just kidding. It was comic gang warfare, Gat, Shaundi and Genki-madness and sometimes aliens and rockets smothered in bling.
It sounds to me that the developers were disgruntled and intentionally torpedoed the gameplay. The publisher realized this and waited to see how the game did before committing to an action. This is why they canned the developer damned near instantly. It doesn’t seem far fetched if corporate comes in and starts turning your child into a freak and bastardizing it. Most people would spite their nose
'It'S the SUiTs FaUlt' I know your fan-fiction style of reporting is basically an NPC. But laying blame almost entirely on speculative, unconfirmed involvement from the publisher is embarrassing. Did the pub also demand dated combat? Lazy quest and story design? What about the cringe dialog, did the publisher demand that too? I would say I expect more, but you're the guy that recommended Cyberpunk2077 and defended CDPR as they deceived millions from thier customers...so shut takes is kinda your thing.
If this report is true, that Deep Silver wanted Volition to make a Saints Row game with more of a focus on friendship when the devs initially wanted to make a game focused on gang-warfare inspired by Saints Row 2, man, talk about being absolutely clueless about your own IPs.
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Deep silver messed up mighty number 9 now they mess up this
This is a shame
The worst part about this is that the publisher will take this as "Yep see, Saints Row doesn't sell." Instead of the lesson that should be learned which is don't mess up a franchises identity.
It’s so funny because I feel like fans have voiced this opinion enough, where we don’t like the direction and the publishers take it as we don’t like the series… but they just don’t listen and stop series regardless💀💀like bro listen to us
@@phantomreaver85 Because in reality games are art and art is connected to their makers. And now we have either some politics obsessed officers or money-hungry execs making decisions. That's why. It's not that they are not listening it's just that they don't care.
@@Diegoshadow85Exactly
@@phantomreaver85 Either that, or they copy/paste the same game over and over...
That's because the suits are fucking buffoons who only care about money. This is why the world will become so much better when the younger Gen Z/Millennial crowd who actually grew up loving and playing these games take over these C-suite and investor-level positions of influence.
It’s crazy to think, somewhere, someone is sitting in an office, defending his Decision because he legit thought he knew better 😂
Or her. Let's not forget women can be complete fuck ups too.
These people always fail upward. I’m sure they’re working on the next established IP to ruin in the name of DEI
Crazyy lmao! He def getting fired.
A lot of higher ups and rich people have too much ego and thinking they know it all anyway. Happens to every industries/offices most of these people is the reason of downfall of their products yet many dont see it until it fall down anyway.
Not really cause it is happening all over the place in the corporate world. Every sector has some bean counter or whatever position thinking s/he knows best when said person has absolutely zero clue of what's going on due to delusion and/or being separated by 20 levels of bureaucratic bs from the workers and consumers.
Doesn't really change how Volition acted towards their fans regardless of who they wanna blame.
That's what I'm saying. So how much of this can be true when they were talking so much shit themselves?
@@Troll_vs.I mean they still had to sell copies. Once the decision is made they can’t speak against it even if they know it’s a bad idea.
And they blame fans for the failure lol
Yep. They literally called us terrorists for criticizing the turd they crapped out in front of us like they expected us to be happy with it.
@@skyuruI mean they can't really attack the actual numbskulls being their boss. Sometimes the higher ups are a bunch of absolute idiots and you're forced to defend a crap product because ultimately it's your paycheck on the line
Considering their community manager outright said "People who like our old games are terrorists", I have no sympathy for this company.
Reverse running with scissors (the game developers)
Exactly.
Because of one dickweed?
Yep, They claimed their old games are made for terrorists, yet Flippy is trying to convince us that the devs also intended on making the reboot essentially "Terrorist-Game.2.5"?
Something's not adding up with that bullshit!
Exactly. I think they made the game they wanted to make.
F1ppy was in the volition creator program. He had to sign an NDA Multiple times over the years. He was offered another one just a couple weeks ago and declined to sign it. That is the reason he is able to even talk about this stuff in the first place.
Hopefully this is a warning to all developers to not interact with Deep Silver.
They also had a hand on mighty no 9
@@valletasand also ride to hell retribution as well.
If only they learn...but this is not the first time that happens in these years...
@@valletas Keiji Inafune already killed Might No.9 out of the gate.
Deep Silver just desecrated the corpse.
I’ve always had a “do not buy” attitude towards Deep Silver. They’re games have always been garbage
Reminds me of a Frank Zappa interview where he says the 60s produced such good music bc the record label heads didn't pretend to like or understand the music, they just knew it sold and that the kids liked it. Once the suits pretended that they had the finger on the pulse of pop culture, and believed they could judge what people would like, it was all over for popular art
Even that is better than what we have now. It is one thing having an executive meddle because they think it will sell better and be wrong, but a much worse one is when they meddle for cultural reasons knowing the fans explicitly do not want that and to change the fanbase.
Difference here is that artists and bands still have direct control most of the time for their music since they are the only ones making the product - in this case the music. Most of the time execs and suits typically try to push an annual album release; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Kind of hard to go that in gaming when the suits and execs are the ones funding the budget for games and demanding a good product before it even completes the alpha.
Pop music is pretty lame now but music overall is in a way better place. The amount of variety we have because of music availability is incredible. We can listen to more than ever before!
The lesson being that execs are lizard people and don't understand people because they're psychopaths.
Aka when marketing gets involved. Imo that's when shit starts to go south they hire marketing teams or consultants that redirect the heads.
It's kinda hard to feel bad for them especially how they were disrespecting fans like that.
I have to wonder... Volition could probably not be at fault here, at least directly. Probably Volition's HR staff got replaced by Deep Silver to a more "open and welcome" personnel, which led to the infamous tweets that attack the fans, or it was actually done by Deep Silver themselves. I mean, Volition had a consistent tone in their tweets that was for the fans up until that point.
No emotion that's what business is.
The entirety of Volition shouldn't be put in the hot seat for the words of just a few of their developers. That's unfair to the rest of the team.
@elijaheumags5060 Well when you call you're audience terrorists you are definitely at fault.
@@MrHocotateFreight Venture Brothers had the best version of that. "If I through this pen at your head, you gonna be angry with me or have it out with the pen."
I think the great problem with ESG developers is that is becoming clear they are more worried with the ficticious "modern audiences" scores than the quality of the product.
Customers are associating ESG/DEI to poor products.
ESG is an anti humanity and anti consumer entity anyway.
It's all the creation of stinky demonic people with god complex and unlimited money.
Because they ARE poor products. They're propaganda wrapped in the facade of 'the thing you like!'
as they should be associated. more often than not, the product is being made for the esg funding instead of selling it on its own merit. i'd go further and say that if you believed enough in your product to sell well, you wouldn't associate with esg for its free money at all. and i use the track record as my supporting evidence.
Catering to the 1% and alienating the rest...
BlackRock has been disaster for the gaming & movie industry
The thing is, there was an undercurrent of friendship, or at least comradery in most of the saints row. Friendship with Gat, shaundi, pierce and to a lesser part the rest of the gang. But it wasn't beating you over the head with it, because it was a supporting element to the gang warfare, which was the focus of 2 and 3. It was a little more obvious in 4 with some of the loyalty missions, as you helped people through their issues or just did something that made them happy, but again it wasn't the forefront.
Deep Silver might have been the cause, but Volition made it worse by being combative with its own fanbase in an attempt to build a new one.
That’s why I don’t buy this excuse. If they were against it, volition would of handled it smarter.
gotta agree with the public sentiment here. Regardless of who set the tone, they kinda dug their own grave with the PR campaign around the game.
It's not like changing the tone would have made things any better. There's still the fact the gameplay is a complete downgrade compared to any of the previous games.
@@akirajkrI'm sure it would have changed the gameplay. After Deep Silver's power grab, it's very likely that the only developers left giving a shit about developing a functioning game were the "political commissar" type.
100%. I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for them. If they got pressured into the cringe, fine, but then they viciously and repeatedly attacked anybody that pointed out that it was cringe and a poor game.
They made their bed, hope they enjoy it.
@@akirajkrit wouldn't have made it better, but pissing in the fans face was volition idea
@@Olinser After looking at what they said, you guys are such wusses if that's viscous to you. Gamers are such babies now days.
You know, in quite a few ways, SR2 was about friendship. The gas in the burning pile of Brotherhood bodies was Carlos' brutal death. The Samdei got personal, kidnapping Shaundie. The Ronin killing Ayesha and incapacitating Gat made killing their leaders a personal goal instead of a chore to check off. Hell, the Boss literally tells Akuji: "Your son should have never have f*cked with my friends."
Yep. Whoever thinks stories about friendship have to be all wholesome and pg-rated have never had real friends.
@@thehousealwayswins8398Real friends also got eachother's in the face of extreme opposition
@@thehousealwayswins8398They have followers, not friends, annoying people like losers on Twitter hate each other. They always walk around with knives looking for which one of their fake friends they can stab in the back.
@@thehousealwayswins8398 I like to say...the power of friendship is a great theme, *if* and only *if* you never say the phrase "power of friendship."
Classic
Even if true, Deep Silver aren't the ones that called fans "haters" and "terrorists" for not supporting the game. The devs did.
That was a community manager who was a temp sent by deep silver
@@rangerv1 and how do we know that?
@@BigHailFan the community manager was bought in after the old ones death who was also doing the pc patch
@@rangerv1 i see. so why did the company not denounce these statements later down the line. is that community manager still there? (or was still there i guess.)
@@BigHailFan Because denouncing your parent company is a really good way to get fired.
you know the worst part? they’ll keep trying crap like this cause many of them legitimately will still feel like they are in the right
This is so surreal for me. I live in the city where Volition is located, I had friends and mentors who worked there and they let me use Volition's studio space to shoot my Kickstarter video. This was during the Saints Row IV days. Now it's all gone. Most of the people I know left before the reboot, but I'm still ashamed of the newest game Volition released... what an absolute disgrace.
I don't understand why every corporation and celebrity decided to adopt the Ghostbusters 2016 strategy of insulting your customers.
ESG scores most likely. If they have it in their practices, they will keep pushing values people dislike in order to raise their score so as to continue receiving their funding. Thinking that with the funding, they can afford to piss off their customers with messages people don't agree with while neglecting and lowering quality of their overall product, while believing they can stomach the losses. Once you lose your main customer base for good, it's effectively the end for them like what happened here.
What we often don't realize is that the activists are just one prong of the attack, people often forget the other avenue where the attack is being launched, which is Blackrock money.
Have you considered the possibility that they actually hate you?
I actually enjoyed the 2016 Ghostbusters. Thought it was truly funny. The Charlie angels remake was horrific though. Felt insulted watching it lmao.
@@josefinarivia Everybody is wrong sometimes.
They keep acting like it's such a mystery. Just write a good story and create a fun game. That's all you have to do
exactly they act like its soo difficult
It wouldn’t be a modern game if they didn’t CURRENT DAY us at every opportunity!
It is when your publishers tell you to do otherwise now isn't it.
@@KaosDeathLord Highly doubt the publishers are saying "OK guys, we want to push modern political narratives, make sure we do it in such a hamfisted way that everyone dislikes it!"
@@Nick-ue7iw I mean the reboot was a pretty clear cut example of "Screw you guys, we know whats best and you're nobody compared to us".
So its kinda the hamfisted moral highground mentality while being COMPLETELY tonedeaf to what fans and target demographics actually want. It may not be intent to create a bad game, but it is intent to shaft and dismiss anyone who's expressed love for the OG IP.
Bottomline: know your target audience, be receptive to input, don't assume you know better than the people you're banking on buying your product
If so why did the developers act so snarky and throw out the standard twitter-esque insults to people? Strong doubt the publisher is entirely to blame.
Agreed. There may be a variable amount of truth to the Deep Silver claim but that doesn't diminish the adverse hostility from the team themselves.
Because Steph is a DS employee.
That was Deep Silver
I wish this would become a trend for all games. You lie to us, you shut down. That way we'd go back to that era where games were finished and polished at launch.
The most affected will be the person on the devs team if thats the case. While publisher that direct the devs decision wont learnt a lesson
Activision
meanwhile in reality though, Starfield is doing elden ring numbers day 1. So yeah I doubt it'll happen.
@@300IQProwerWhat did they lied about in your opinion? Or are you talking about the unpolished game at launch part? It's Bethesda, it's to be expected from them lol, but they gives us pretty good games, and Starfield isn't the exception.
As long as the one shutting down is the publisher. They really are the one to blame for releasing and selling a broken product instead of just cancelling it or not sabotaging the developers.
Considering Deep Silver’s reputation is as a publisher “who will publish a game when no one else would” I’m not surprised they made this decision, this is the same publisher who released Ride to Hell: Retribution & Mighty Number 9
They keep wanting fans to "cry like an anime fan on prom night".
I am happy that they published some titles that were only on PC over to consoles. Yes, they are the European version of what Atlus Games does for Japanese imports.
I won't lie, I never heard of that game before. I am just going to assume it was that panned.
@@EJ_Red Ride to Hell: Retribution is reknown for being one of worst games ever made though, it's worth looking at some of the reviews on YT because it's so hilariously bad.
Mighty Number 9 was supposed to be a spiritual successor to Mega Man. "Supposed to be" as it ended up completely missing the mark in almost every single way.
@@josephpurdy8390I don’t see the correlation between Deep Silver & Atlas
Honestly, even if this is 100% true and it was Deep Silver that was responsible for the game's tone, that only excuses the cringe writing. It doesn't excuse the broken game at launch (though I wouldn't be surprised if DS rushed the release date), the boring gameplay where enemies are bullet sponges, or most importantly: the way Devs at Volition mocked and disrespected fans when we were upset over the game. I don't care if the higher ups were responsible for the initial backlash as a result of their decisions, the instant you decide to take your frustrations out on the people you're hoping will buy your product, any sympathy I have for you evaporates.
You say they are bullet sponges, but aside from the specialists (Who were ALWAYS bullet sponges) the enemies took 2 bullets from the revolver (one when fully upgraded and when you get a headshot) or 3 from the Kobra for their health bar. The "Tough" bar only added a couple more. 5 shots isn't a lot. And if you use the Stagecoach, fully upgraded, that gun killed most enemies in one shot, even with Tough bars. Again, excluding the specialists.
@@Dillon-117how longs it take to get a fully upgraded gun
Were they actual fans or just a twitter mob who can't tolerate any change for the 2006 game?
Yeah the game would still be bad. Simple stuff like buying cloths, shooting, progressing the story became a headache
@@p0werfu11 Actual fans, not the snowflakes that get triggered by anything.
Never understand why these big youtubers and people with an audience just refuse to put any blame on devs ever. THEY MAKE THE GAMES. Their silence is bought with money. They see first hand these games blow but keep selling out then wanna turn around and blame the system.
Not to mention volition actively attacked their fans too . They are not innocent are just as much to blame as deep silver. They still went with it
I guess people like to eat and have somewhere to live, but maybe I'm just weird like that...
Their silence is bought with contracts and non disclosure agreements they literally can't speak out they have no choice. Steph was also an employee of Deep Silver not Volition. If Mike was still alive this would of never happened.
It grinds my gears that even now, these sort of people are the type who think that they've done nothing wrong, and instead it was just because nobody wanted to play saints row. They can just do no wrong.
Welcome to modern day entitlement mentality and victimhood culture.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't Volition employees the ones doubling/tripling down with horrible takes on social media lashing out against the fans? If so, still don't care about this info, because that means they still cosigned the bs.
Community manager literally compared fans to terrorists. Clown world.
all this info has told me is that SR was fucked from the get go
@@kingofthezinger9777
Okay you right. Based.
Yes. This excuse is complete cope.
"Anime fan on prom night" tells you everything you need to know about their marketing skills
What I'm left wondering is how in the world did it cost $100M to make?! Where did all that money go because every aspect of the game is terrible
Same place the Ukraine money went. In someones pocket
@@jeremym8748 When we say we spend money it doesn't actually get spent. It just changes pockets.
Might have got lost on lack of direction hell. The money is spent on paying people's salaries, and if you can't organize them and have everybody working towards a goal, you'll end up having people doing nothing or just doing something that won't make it to the final version. Cutting content is fine, it's part of the process but lack of direction is on another level of wasting people's times, which to a corporation is literally money.
Where did all the money went ? Easy. Paying up people in PR department to insult Saints Row fans on Twitter all day. That's where all the money went.
And half of it was recycled from the previously canceled project "Agents of Mayhem". I believe only newly installed idiots steared the ship, after the elite probably jumped it, after seeing the "course correction" by the publisher.
If this is true than why did the developers go after the fans so hard when the backlash hit?
Exactly volition isn’t innocent either. They participate in the attack on fans. It seems like they are both trying to blame each other when in reality they are both at fault. For coming up with a stupid idea and going with it
Because the extremist progressive mentality makes everyone think less and you end up becoming stupid. That's basically why nothing makes sense.
@@Yoshixandir Steph was a Deep Silver employee
Executives should be held accountable. Massive failures like this shouldn’t only be on the Devs, but the big bosses behind these terrible games.
I've always had this inexplicable "bad feeling" about Deep Silver. Like something wasn't quite right with that company. They're no EA or Activision, but they're certainly not playing with a full deck. This is a great encapsulation of that feeling. While it sucks that Deep Silver besmirched Saints Row, Volition's attitude during the whole ordeal didn't earn them much sympathy.
Do you perchance remember the "like an anime fan on prom night" trailer for Mighty No. 9? That was Deep Silver's fault. Not that Mighty No 9 itself was all that great either, but the point is I don't think your bad feeling about DS is all that inexplicable.
@@KyuubiDragon4 Ayo, word?? That was Deep's fault??? I genuinely never knew that. Puts a lot of things into perspective.
If you’re on about the “haters gonna hate” tweet the saints row community manager was taken up by a deep silver manager due to Idol Ninja the old mananger and guy behind the pc patch died
EA I'd the big-name car mechanic that always overcharges and breaks your car. Deep Silver is a shady used car dealer. Not the worst. Still shady
What makes you think Deep Silver had any impact on this game? Do you need reminding of Volitions mistake after mistake with the SR franchise? Starting off with killing Gat?
If Flippy's claims of the reboot being more reminiscent of SR2 was true, it would be evident in the mechanics. Changing a developing story midway, would NOT affect it's developing gameplay too much. Problem here, is that SR2022 doesn't even compare to SR3 or 4. There's absolutely fuck all here that's even close to SR2, it doesn't have the variety of environments, NPC liveliness and interaction, almost completely void of transport, mediocre melee combat, worse ranged combat... oh wait, sorry, there is one single fucking thing that might be close to SR2 - the character creator. That's it, just that one thing, and nothing else.
But hey, somehow Deep Silver came in told them to dump all the SR2-like mechanics and go with an even worse version of SR3's mechanics instead??? Suuuuuuuuure....
Overall, I fully believe Flippy is full of shite. Or maybe he is telling the truth and all the devs are just much more incompetent at their jobs than I already think they are.
I doubt it was publishers. Publishers didn't go on Twitter mocking fans and talking crap about them. Volition did that.
Just curious though, I wonder if it was Deep Silver's actions that insulted the fan base through Volition. Probably through restructuring and replacing the PR of Volition to their more "open and accepting" personnel, which allowed them to bash on the fans in a similar yet opposite tone. I mean, the publisher is tone deaf and just thought that they're in the right to do that.
@@elijaheumags5060It was a community manager.
The Saints Row twitter account was ran by a Deep Silver community manager.
were they actual devs or communities manager? just cause someone is on twitter doesn't mean they are actually developing the game
@@nicolasgonzalez629thats true but it still gives a bad reputation for the game regardless
Its wild how the game cost $100m to develop, games used to be cheaper to make and could still make a great bank
They don't actually cost that much to make. They keep saying that, but, in reality, most of that money "disappears" into the bank accounts of higher ups.
@@MrJinglejanglejingle is there any evidence for this?
@@Darkrezta Saying so is Bobby Kotick's entire career
@@MrJinglejanglejingle A lot of people like to push the narrative that technology has gotten just as expensive as it is powerful but they refuse to believe it's also gotten more EFFICENT.
There's like an army of free worker losers lurking everywhere just waiting to tell you "You can't criticize them! Do you know how hard it is to make games?" and then they go spend 60$ on Candycrush.
Like with movies, most of that probably goes into marketing. The rest goes into CO bonuses.
Its also pretty common for game studios to blame the publisher after the fact if they fail.
So the truth is, its probably in the middle 50/50.
That certainly explains things. The entire game I was wondering why the dialogue and characters where written to gloss over or justify why we were criminals. Every time we did something morally dubious in a mission, it was because we where doing it to other “bad” people. The entire time I was like “We’re all gang members though?” Some of the city building aspects even allow you to objectively make the world worse by putting radioactive dumping facilities in populated areas.
Yeah, owning the bad behavior of the characters in previous games made a lot of the stuff players actually do (muggings, randomly assaulting civilians, running missions naked) feel wrong because they tried too hard to justify things.
Felt very YA novel. I remember reading The Hunger Games on a plane to see what the fuss was about and halfway through I'm just like "Oh, no good characters are ever going to kill each other or do anything reprehensible."
Smells suspicious that this report that deflects the blame only comes out when it was made clear that no one felt bad for the dev studio closing down
Fr
Yup it’s funny how it’s always the higher ups being blamed and not the new crop of untalented hacks that have polluted the industry now that it’s “cool to be a game dev”.
the reason why its now is that volition is gone so some NDAs have expired and none of the employees are worrying about loosing their job now that they don't have one.
If you want to see what’s really going on in the western industry just look at the behind the scenes footage of old bungie and compare it to the stuff they post today 😂. Bunch of people with the most useless waste of money occupations known to man that almost sound made up.
and due to that and logic saying otherwise I don;t trust the situation, I'll cling to what we knew as they got shuttered until clearer better info comes out, if more people confirm this then that's enough to shift blame IMO, right now this is a case of he said she said....
Similar thing happened to Agni Philosophy which turns out to be Forspoken , Agni had a very promising concept that grabbed a lot of people's attention back in the day .. that concept that we saw on the trailer and all of its assets was used to create Project Athia which is known today as Forspoken , you can tell Square Enix execs interfered with the idea and the creative concept that luminous productions originally had for Agni and everything was shifted to fit today's modern standards from character design to writing to the whole concept of the game .. all that led to Forspoken being a major flop which led to luminous productions being closed
No way, they got rid of that concept to replace it with an inferior character one?
I checked it out. Wow. They replaced THAT cool modern military vs magic idea with cool characters concepts and dragon for Forspoken aka THE MOST GENERIC game ever? Really?
For a Japanese company, Squeenix has shit taste. They fucked up Deus Ex too.
So we could have gotten a gate Isekai game essentially for what we got wow
Square Enix are legendary for their ability to f*ck games up via upper management interference. They never ever learn. They are a garbage publisher and have been for ages. Its pure luck whenever a studio manages to release a decent game without it being sabotaged by this publisher.
I wouldn’t download that game for free even if you paid me 😂
Perfect timing. The game is free to download on PS Plus for the month XD
@@mikeyua7LMFAO 🤣
I have a bot set up on my Steam account configured to drop a cluster bomb on anyone who gifts me that game
@@stoneymahoney9106bro imagine if someone gifted you the game in the middle of a crowd
To think that there is a timeline where we could have gotten a Saints Row game that acted as worthy successor to Saint's Row 2, saddens me to no end. I just pray that R* is paying attention. We don't want a watered-down experience, that "Doesn't punch down" on people.
Rockstar is MUCH worse!
Since the obscene sucess of GTA4 online that made them so much money, that's all they care about
yea when the longtime lead writer left and said he didnt feel like he fits the studio anymore you know the situation is hopeless. gta 6 will also be a chant for the friendship, and not the kind that gta5 or 4 or sa had, but one where the 2 protagonists will have a serious 10 minute chat about the immorality of coffee bean business
@@kallemetsahalme5701 We have seen where GTA is going, just looking at 5 shows that clearly.
They don't give a damn about 5, almost no real new stuff has been added for ages, on the contrary, things have been removed!
But not in the Online version, where you HAVE to pay real money if you want to get anywhere really.
They have seen the money that they got through GTA5 online and said bugger it to the offline campaign.
Same happened with Red Dead Online, although it bombed, they were still pushing the same dirty schemes there.
Well guess what, those leaks we saw have all been scrapped and redesigned for "modern audiences."
Realistically, Saints Row, outside of Saints Row 2, has always been kind of "meh".
Saints Row 1 was a bland, okay game with some glaring issues, like if you're so proud of your character customization, why can't I make my character a girl for example? I wasn't even going to, it's just glaring that they don't let you do it.
Saints Row 2 was a diamond in the rough, a glorious self-aware yet not so much it beats you over the head with it game in which instead of crumpling of your car miserably pedestrians you hit will fly into orbit, go around the world and land on the nearby street lamp as you show the city's most hardened residents and rich upper classes the TRUE meaning of horror with a stolen sewage truck with character customization so good you can play as anyone from a thug so muscular they make Kratos look like Astolfo, to a femboy so feminine they make Astolfo look like Kratos, to a man so fat they simply have to be within a proximity to wherever they're robbing and any money and goods will simply head to the massive center of gravity nearby.
Saints Row 3 in spite of it's technical improvements was a worse game, and in spite of it's emphasis on how WACKY it is was rather boring. GONE is the colourful and varied and just plain bigger Stillwater, in it's place is Steelport, a city consisting of boring copy-pasted apartments with the occasional boring industrial area. GONE is spraying sewage on boomers, now you have a game show where you... Do the exact same thing as in normal gameplay and kill people, but now you do it IN A WACKY COSTUME. GONE is the amazing character creation, now you have sets of clothes and it's hard to even make a generic gangsta but hey, GRAPHICS. Oh and to compensate you can buy the new costume DLCs with wacky costumes, 17 of them in fact. The new enemy types that came with each gang made the gangs more distinct but they honestly weren't enough. Also the new characters aren't really all that memorable except for Matt, the emo teen who you can recruit after defeating him in virtual reality.
Even the opening sucks, before sacrificing himself to save the rest of the Saints leadership Johnny Gat says "we sold out!".
Sold out? SOLD OUT?! SORRY COMRADE. I MUST BE COLOURBLIND BECAUSE ALL THIS TIME I THOUGHT OUR GANG COLOUR WAS ROYAL PURPLE WHEN IT WAS CLEARLY COMMUNIST GUERILLA RED.
Oh and IT WAS BUGGIER THAN A FUCKING BRAZILIAN RAINFOREST ON RELEASE.
THAT'S RIGHT, SAINTS ROW 3 RELEASED A BROKEN GAME AND PATCHED IT YEARS LATER BEFORE IT WAS COOL.
Saints Row 4 was okay, it was a massive upgrade over Saints Row 3 and a decent ending for the series that even let you give Johnny Gat closure. But many of Saints Row 3's problems are still there, the customization is still dogshit, Steelport is boring, but the powers are still fun and hey, Matt's there, fittingly about the only character to debut in SR3 who makes a return as he's the only one worth remembering.
In truth, Saints Row as a franchise is kind of shit. There's only one really GREAT game, Saints Row 2 and even then the PC port is an infamously buggy piece of shit to this day. The Saints Row reboot never really stood a chance and even then the reboot at least brought the character customization back to the standards of Saints Row 2 and had a better setting than FUCKING STEELPORT. A sequel on the other hand would fail because there's nowhere else to go, we've fought Matrix aliens, we've invaded and taken over Hell itself to get Gat into Heaven. Time travel? Not only has Assassin's Creed already done historical settings but we've already met historical figures in Gat Out of Hell. Nothing they do is going to be an escalation.
Most great game franchises don't get a chance to end, let alone end on a good note. Saints Row at least did (well at least BEFORE the reboot) and the only thing a sequel could ever accomplish is ruining even that.
5:20 love to see Flippy getting some spotlight, he always advocated for the best parts of the series and the community
I'd rather pay full price for the first four Saints Row games than play the 2022 game for free.
Funny thing, since the 2022 is free on Playstation Plus this month. Not that I care, I'm playing Baldur's Gate 3, since I like games made by companies that actually care about making good games.
they would have to pay me to play saints row 2022
We got SR: Reboot because you guys who have low standards liked the 3rd and 4th.
@@starkiller007 I liked SR4 h a h a
@@starkiller007 Volition had two sets of fans, fans of 1+2 and fans of 3+4, if what you say is true those two fanbases wouldn't have united in disgust for the reboot.
Try again.
Publisher or not, they still treated gamers and fans very poorly. It was on them for their actions. Blame who you want, they still have to be held accountable for how they acted.
Everything but the "stop having fun" post was all done by DeepSilver. The haters gonna hate post, accusing the fanbase of being terrorists over one bad actor messaging them, the many times they said "We're not backing down on it. You want this reboot, you just don't know it yet!" was all done not only by DeepSilver, but specifically their community managed known as DeadlySteph. She has proven herself to be a detriment to this game and should not be trusted with any position of power whatsoever. With how the game came out and how so many things in it seem tailored specifically to her interests _cough_ KEVIN _cough_ I'm hedging bets on her having a way more influential role in this game's development.
This game is absolute poison. It's an abomination, and a tumor that killed it's host. Rest In Peace Volition. I don't believe they're completely free of blame since they went right along with Deep Sliver's terrible plan and didn't give enough pushback, but from what I've seen playing out this entire time, Volition was merely a pawn.
@@WASTOIDSUPREMEI am so happy someone has a thinking brain, everyone is pointing & laughing at Volition when it was Deep Silver, i salute the devs & hope they get better places to work after all this.
@@spiderman265555The devs made the terrible game. Doesn't matter if the illumaniti deep silver were really behind the tweets, Volition happily took the money and made the worst possible game.
Just googled that Deadlysteph and... I guess she looks like what I imagined she would@@WASTOIDSUPREME
@@JDoe-gf5oz The fuck were they supposed to do? Literally quit their jobs and look for somewhere else to work instead of trying to save a game they had already worked on?
Okay but let's not forget volitions "haters gonna hate" mentality when the game was revealed and we were trying to tell them this is not what we wanted.
Yeah that was actually Deep Silver who was running the sr twitter account
@@rangerv1Sure it was.
The problem with the reboot was never really the friendship aspect, it was the implementation of that friendship that made the game garbage. Look at the past games, all of them had heavy friendship tones throughout. The difference is that they felt meaningful, not forced or awkward like the reboot. The writing of the reboot was the primary issue, it felt like we walked into a party where everyone already knew everyone else but we were the stranger trying to keep up. This, in addition to the glaring issues with combat (Honestly the modernization attempts they implemented made things worse, I'd rather have the same old combat system than what we got) completely killed my enjoyment of the game. The frustrating thing about the game is that it felt like wasted potential, written by a team that didn't want to be there and I will never forgive Deep Silver or Volition for that.
Maybe its a lesson to media creators that the audience this tone was meant to apeal to are in fact a very small percentage of consumers, they are just very loud.
Volition still insulted its core fanbase despite not even being the old devs but independent hires. They had NO reputation to speak on things and they didn't have to prowl Twitter and attack people like they did while also going on the main official account insulting their customers. Well deserved.
I've been hearing that it was a community manager from Deep Silver that ran the account
@@knowledgeacquirer2931 i heard it was programmers from deep silver that snuck into volition and programmed the whole game while they away. Jokes aside, the game was a fucking terrible mess. could deep silver have had a hand in it? absolutely. until we get a deep dive or something similar from a reputable source, I'm going to take everything with a grain of salt.
@@knowledgeacquirer2931 There was one Volition developer who reposted a meme of a 2012-esque fedora wearing neckbeard telling some Saints Row 2022 players (mythical creatures) to "STOP HAVING FUN!". But other than that one guy, the rest of the damage was the Deep Silver community manager. I would not hire her for a community-driven role unless I felt like watching my company go up in flames.
@johnlabuda4315 I just played the reboot today, and it sucks ass. There's so many glitches, cringe dialog and the boss acts like their mentally challenged during the whole game.
@@SlimSamari This cold I'm trudging through right now is a more fun experience than the reboot.
I'm going to have to agree with a lot of other people in the comments.
I really doubt that the publisher made them go on twitter and attack their own fans, hard to feel bad for a dev after that no matter how great they might at one point have been.
I disagree. Usually it's one person running the social media account, and they don't need to interact with the dev team to do it. Just look at the Sonic twitter, I doubt some of the shade that one tosses occasionally is viewed favorably by the team and SEGA themselves.
Hell, for all we know, Deep Silver told the individual to stop this narrative that the game was cringe, and this was the least offending response they can make. Unless Deep Silver allows it, only one person can say shit about the game thanks to NDA, and it's the dude that ran the twitter account. Doesn't mean that it reflects the entire studio.
I just don't see the entire studio being *that* out of touch that they can assume that the new cast would be looked at favorably. Suits, on the other hand...
Deadlysteph is a deep silver employee who was awful at their job being a community manager for saints row
@@kyotanaka920 There has to be some level of responsibility on the devs, though. They had a streamer mode that would just mute the audio but didn't catch an early DJ scene where the music there is claimed, the visuals were horribly dated, the only good mission I could think of is where you go around LARPing. It kind of felt like how Postal 4 ended up being but I'm almost 100% positive Saints Row 4 had x10 the budget.
You are mistaking devs for a community manager. It is quite possible the Community manager was a Deep Silver plant.
@@Darkeus1 they were look up deadlysteph
easy to blame someone else then take responsibility for screwing up even if it is just once
I have how publishers cant just simply stay in their lanes and just publish games.
let Volition do their thing. what type of brainrot did they have when they thought of turning gang war-centered games to broke as college kids and friendship?
With how the developers outed themselves on Twitter and such, I seriously doubt the publisher is to blame here.
I was out on the reboot after 1 minute into the first trailer I saw. It was obvious what had happened.
You're correct there Yong, the cringe was too much in the reboot, i wondered why Volition went in that direction, yeah Saint Row has always been a giant parody of itself but that was too much
Because this style of humour is all the people behind it had. The people who had the Saints Row edge left years ago.
The public, in general, is getting pretty fed up with how out of touch studios are these days and being told to shut it when they inevitably lash out. It's active hostility towards your fans, and you can't pick and choose your fans.
Given it was the early videos with the devs that put most of us off, talking about toning it down for modern audiences, I think Volition was complicit with this new tone.
Bull. It wasn't Deep Silver employees that attacked the fans. It wasn't Deep Silver developers with the cringe interviews. The Deep Silver people may have had a hand in it but they are in no way completely or even mainly at fault.
"Might be"? Bro they literally threatened to Dox me when I joined the official saints row server and asked why the new characters had zero drip.
The community managers are horrible petty people.
Just be patient. Flippy already has stated that he was under NDA from Volition and actually has inside knowledge that he will be disclosing soon. His NDA will soon expire and I’m more than positive he will make a video. Flippy is 100% credible.
Be patient about what? Are they claiming Volition is just a scapegoat and Deep Silver secretly reprogrammed the game from the ground up to be a terrible mess suitable only for redditors?
@@JDoe-gf5oz If a developer is forced to make a game they don't want, it'll be shit. That should be common knowledge. Same thing happened with Redfall
@@chainsaw8507 Is that what happened here? Have the developers put out a statement claiming they were forced to do this against their will and really wanted to make a game that wasn't pure garbage?
Did he say when it would expire?
Nah, Volition were carrying on about how fans "didnt know what they wanted" and all that. If it wasnt their idea to change the tone, they certainly jumped on board as if it was the right idea. Blame for Volitions actions still stands.
That's why this doesn't ultimately shift blame, only spreads it to also include Deep Silver.
In the Marine Corp there was a saying that applied to platoon commanders and company commanders. If you take care of the troops the mission will take care of itself.
Everything they did was for the fans. Until they hired activists who care more about 'modern politics' than good story and game design.
Valuable lesson here: DONT fight the customer. You start following that rule and there wont be any fuss. Shame volition didn't learn earlier
ESG score. It was done for that.
Even if deep silver had a hand in the very bad direction the reboot took volition still acted like complete jerks to their fans so they are not really off the hook.
I don't honestly care too much why they shut down... I am just glad they shut down. I think it's hilarious. We don't often get to see such glorious pie-in-the-face moments like a studio laughing at and ridiculing their fanbase for not accepting garbage getting buried like this. I want to see this happen more. Punish the hubris.
The more time goes on, the more the line “if it’s not fun, why bother?” Seems to become more and more powerful
You are much to kind to them for giving them any benefits of the doubt, they don't deserve your kindness and reaped what they sowed.
Everyone's trying to promote this "one bad game" narrative surrounding Saint's Row failing, but Volition's last two games before that, "Gat Out Of Hell" and "Agents of Mayhem", had roughly the same metascore as Saint's Row. From the look of things, the Saint's Row formula stopped working years ago and they just couldn't stop trying to squeeze more blood from the stone, where they probably should have looked into making a different kind of game that WASN'T a zany 3D open-world action game.
The thing is though that the last 3 games didn't fail because of the Saints Row Formula, they failed because they DIDN'T follow the Saints Row formula
The Saints Row formula could of worked. But they didn't want to do that. They wanted to abandon their audience amd bring in a new one.
Saints Row formula isn't the problem. The problem is that Volition adamantly refused to go back to the formula after 4. Which are... Surprise, Gat out of Hell and Agents of Mayham.
If this nonsense is true, then that means they WAS going back to the original formula, only to be told that it wouldn't be a commercial success???
I'd somewhat disagree with that at least for Agents of Mayhem since they wanted to go a different root with that game. While there would still be some aspects of that "zany world" in there the idea was different, it's only when the suits got involved trying to force in that saints row formula/brand did it begin to fail. As for Gat out of hell I think that was more the suits wanting more Saint's Row from Volition which is why it flopped hard. Though I will admit with the reboot there no ignoring the fact that it looks like they fucked up on purpose.
I don't care what anybody says: _Gat Out of Hell_ was alright.
It also wasn't a game; it was an expansion to another game that was dressed up as a standalone game.
Deep Silver may be the cause of the failure but Volition does share the blame for doing a very dumb move of mocking fans that really bit them in the butt.
But was it the actual dev team or a community manager?
I somehow doubt it. Not with the way the devs were towards fans.
Hmm, thing is.. friendship and, in some ways, family were always one of the core elements of Saint’s Row 2’s story. So if anything, it looks more like they just morphed it into the primary core of the story, rather than one if it’s tenants.
An analogy to saint’s row progression through the games honestly is a lot like the Fast & Furious franchise. You had elements of family in the earlier movies, but was always about the cars. Then it became about family and now it’s a shell of it’s former self.
"Made for modern audiences" is always a 🚩
i feel bad, until i remember they charged money for this
Already knew it was going to be DOA. But nooo. Some people thought different lmao
I don't buy it is 100% on Deep Silver.
It for sure was Volition that was responsible for their own demise.
Whether it was 100% or less is just technicality.
They pissed on their fanbase and made a bad game.
They deserved what they got.
Agreeable but still something is fishy about the 100 mil budget where it seem like only 1/5 was put into the game like the quality is crap
@@harinchetan4701That's a good point
Hopefully this is a warning to all developers to interact with Deep Silver.
"Might be" or that was the main reason?
Devs should start to call out Publishers and investors for real if they want to bring consumers back on their side otherwise nothing will change and dev. teams will still get 💩on for a failed product.
gets shut down blames publisher pretty sure the publisher didnt force the devs to attack fans
Deep Silver are the guys who made that Mighty N°9 trailer... their cringe is at a level that kills studios indeed.
I find this hard to believe given the attitude that Volition had when responding to the community. Not to mention the timing of this 'reveal' is a bit suspicious.
Certainly doesn't make it seem like the decision was made by Deep Silver.
If this is true, it calls a lot into question with regards to the behavior of Volition staff during the period of bad PR leading up to the game. The developer seemed quite prideful and not as if they were under publisher pressure, but maybe there was a lot more going on than it seemed
Steph was Deep Silver. She was the one saying that shit
@@wadewilson1312 Damn that's an important bit of clarification, DS got off way too easy with this one
Deep Sliver is known to be creatively manipulative in the past before. For starters: Dead Island 2 was supposed to be made by Techland, but due to creative differences. They left and instead created Dying Light, because they wanted their original game to be more serious and fun. When Yaeger had Dead Island 2. They also left the project back in 2015 citing that they couldn't do it due to creative differences. I remember an article saying that Deep Silver has been hard to work with in general.
Known about the Flipster's Channel for years and that man is not telling any lies. I believe that Deep Sliver made these changes to have a more wider demographic. Volition had to comply or else.
This is the gaming industry in a nutshell. The people with money force creatives to make whatever they happened to think up while on one of their coke binges
You can cross out the “might” with a definitely. They wanted to change the branding color to teal instead of purple, and wanted it about friendship, not gangs.
Which is funny because friendship was a theme in all of the Saints Row games, but it was a minor theme. It was about the friendship of the gang members with the main character and each other. It enhanced the gang theme, not overrode it.
I never want to hang out with hipsters that always talk about student loans, waffles, larping, etc. I want to hang out with REAL GANGSTERS that have a burning desire of taking over the whole city that they live in.
Takes a strong man to deny what’s right in front of him
This is just blatant copium and damage control. The game wasn't bad because of the change in tone or style. The game was bad because it was a bad game. The previous games were ultimately about a group of friends anyway, so that's not even really a change.
Something is very wrong in the game industry, when the publisher company is an investor corporation. Embracer Groups motto is buy, sell and trade. They only understand profit and have little care of what gamers want.
No way the devs were all over twitter defending the bs they made. This is copeium
Deep Silver might be to blame for the game itself but that doesn't change how Volition treated its fans. Deep SIlver didn't make them do that, and now Volition has lost more than just their jobs.
Red Faction was a masterpiece that I will always be grateful to them for making. Same with Saints Row 2 and 3
Before: "Here's our game! We couldn't care less what you say!"
Now: "Dear fans..."
It's interesting to see how Deep Silver affects their different studios. It very much seems they were up Volition's ass, even with SR 4 and AoM. Yet in the case of, say, Payday 3, it seems that they've basically just let Starbreeze get on with their vision. Actually, Payday 3's tone seems more in line with the classic Saints Row, a somewhat dark crime drama with a decent helping of comedy.
Doesn't hurt that, for all their screw ups, Starbreeze clearly love their fans and haven't been insulting the fairly vocal critics if PD 3's trailers.
Starbreeze ain't exactly angels mind, they've been ripping off their fans for years with tiny dlcs that they charge way over the odds for
That's a rose tinted view. Remember how BADLY Sarbreeze screwed up with payday 2, nearly destroying the company? DS had to get involved to straighten out that mess. It sounds to me that volition was hell bent of self imploding and DS had to keep medlling to keep the lights on. Unlike starbreeze, volition couldnt figure it out.
@@Nick-ue7iw Yes, I gave Starbreeze way too much credit here in retrospect, but my point was that DS didn't seem to meddle in their affairs like they did Volition's.
More like Saints No.
They cannot simply point fingers solely at one party, because they initially blamed and attacked people who are not responsible for the quality of the game: the audience and the gamers. Whether it is Deep Silver or Volition, they are both at fault.
Considering the shit they pulled with Metro Exodus last minute, I would not be surprised.
"Diverse and Progressive content makes money!"
Meanwhile...
Imagine living in a world where a publisher can destroy an IP but it's the studio who gets shut down. Bring Volition back and deep six the publisher. Volition deserves the shot to make more great games.
Basically they wanted to do edgy humor but also safe for the “modern audience”, and that never works, safe and edge don’t mix, it’s like a child trying to show attitude but being careful because his mommy is watching.
I guess the real Saint's Row was the friends we made along the way...just kidding. It was comic gang warfare, Gat, Shaundi and Genki-madness and sometimes aliens and rockets smothered in bling.
Yep, you know Saints Row 5 would've been more of that.
It sounds to me that the developers were disgruntled and intentionally torpedoed the gameplay. The publisher realized this and waited to see how the game did before committing to an action. This is why they canned the developer damned near instantly. It doesn’t seem far fetched if corporate comes in and starts turning your child into a freak and bastardizing it. Most people would spite their nose
'It'S the SUiTs FaUlt' I know your fan-fiction style of reporting is basically an NPC. But laying blame almost entirely on speculative, unconfirmed involvement from the publisher is embarrassing. Did the pub also demand dated combat? Lazy quest and story design? What about the cringe dialog, did the publisher demand that too?
I would say I expect more, but you're the guy that recommended Cyberpunk2077 and defended CDPR as they deceived millions from thier customers...so shut takes is kinda your thing.
I mean... what do you expect from the publisher of the worst game of all time: RTH retribution.
The game had you being sexest to one dimensional women
LMAO I didn’t even realize that was the same publisher. The game was doomed before it ever released.
PUBLISHER not MAKER, they put the game out not make them