How Simple Is Wiring a Solar Off-Grid RV/Cabin? And Why 48VDC? WARNING: This WILL Upset YOU!!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- LOOK, I know there is a lot of math and numbers and boring stuff and I was wrong about everything. The owner wanted to be able to run the entire RV off the inverter and batteries and not just a few circuits like most RV manufactures currently do. Often, other channels will gloss over this stuff and just skip to the more fun and enjoyable stuff but I thought showing the logic and thoughts and design and logistics will be useful for other installers, DIY and individuals. There are always a number of different ways to solve many problems but this is the solution I used. The Rosie may have worked but I don't really like the user interface of Midnite solar or making a mixed and matched system. I assume Victron will likely have the better inverter shortly as this becomes more common, and yes there is a little of an issue when plugged into 30amp but overall the system works.
I hope viewers can power through the theories enough and those with more knowledge can be kind to someone just trying to explain the most basic concepts of electricity. RV electrical code is not residential code and while choices were made and probably bother some viewers, my goal was to make a reliable and safe system.
I hope there was some useful information in this video.
Thanks for watching!!
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The title should read “Power Companies Will Hate This Video”
I’m an electrician and I love this stuff.
Thank you. Ive done my best to listen and grow when electricians...ahem correct me.
As a computer 🖥 tech and electrician. It's always a pleasure listening 2 your videos. U speak with confidence from knowledge and experience. Keep them coming and coming. 👌Thanks again Steven Cote
Editing James out there crushing hopes and dreams...😂
I'm an electrician and apprenticeship instructor and think you did just fine explaining it to newbies. It's like making two marks on a front bicycle wheel, one at the top and one at the bottom. Only one mark can be at the top by the forks at a time and the axle remain still - that is the two phases of the 50A service.
I'll give you one for power factor in AC circuits... a can of unopened beer is 100% beer. Open the can and pour it into a glass and you get beer and foam. The percent of beer to foam is power factor and you want as little foam as possible - more beer to drink. Keep up the good work and looking forward to part two.
I just want to know who the heathen is that rolls the toilet paper “under.” 🤣🤣
When you were explaining the hertz's and the amps's and the neutrals.... i was looking at my phone just like my dog was looking at me while i was repeating your explanation to her....
But then i rewatched it and understood.... she is still looking at me like im crazy or sumthin ... 😂❤😂
Your channel is fantastic. I've learned a lot from watching your work. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight.
Glad to hear it!
Hi James, I bought a 1976 Beachcomber B-15, I'm currently camping in it off grid, no battery power except my EB70 for lights at night (plus some plain jane solar lights!), and have the fridge,stove & furnace all on propane(have a 7000btu oldie furnace, LUV IT!!!) I charge my EB70 with a PV200(Bluetti)solar panel that I won, and I'm shocked how simple and good life is! I keep thinking I want to get a couple of solar panels on the roof but then I need to figure out all the wonky wiring - there is no inverter?! But for resale, I should get it all working right. These old school pilot lights are a pain but...I added a new regulator and fuel gages, BOOM!! I feel like a genius!!! Anyhoo, hope you read this and remember me, a subscriber b4 you even had 1000!😂🎉 I remember that little trailer you did and it makes me wish I could get you to do my trailer!!❤ Still glad you use ur daughters thing of you riding your dog😂❤
Thank you for sharing. I am not sure how vital it would be for re-sale but as long as the solar doesn't look awful on such a awesome trailer I'm for it!
The neutral will have zero current if you have only 240V loads or if you have equal loads on both legs. Unlikely you will ever have equal load on both legs so the neutral will carry the unequal portion of the current.
Thanks for videoing this James. You’re on the way to a sweet system 🙂 I’m Evan Arnett with AMP Solar RV out of the Phoenix area.
You hit the nail on the head with the 24V vs 48V setup. 24V enables using 2 of the Victron 24/3000 2x120 inverters. The major drawback of the dual 120V (3 wire instead of 4) Victron inverter setup on 50A RV’s like what your customer is going with here is that when the RV gets connected to a single phase power source like a 30A hookup or 99% of RV and portable generators, 1 unit passes the AC and charges the battery bank, and the other unit rejects AC input due to it not being 180 out of phase and will invert. It can be problematic for customers that want to run both air conditioners and other loads at the same time, as there are inefficiencies in each step of the charging/inverting process. The biggest thing I’ve found with these setups, is it’s important to make sure that the AC loads that are most commonly used are connected and programmed on the primary inverter, so the losses from the other line that is rejected on single phase input are kept to a minimum. I always strive to put the main living air conditioner, and the outlet strings on the same load line as the primary inverter as those are the most common loads. Feel free to reach out to me here or on my Facebook page AMP Solar RV. I have a travel trailer that needs a roof, I’m happy to exchange solar installations for a roof replacement :)
-Evan Arnett
Thank you for the kind help and support. Yes, when hooked up to 30amp only one inverter passes through and charges, while the other is setup to invert. It's silly as one is charging as the other is discharging, but with the sun, it still manages to charge fairly quickly. I just could not get behind the other inverters on the market. It also seems like something Victron could update with programming only rather than hardware. Even if it were to just pass power through and turn the second charger off.
@@AZExpert I don't disagree with you on that :) It could easily be addressed by Victron with a new VE bus configurator programming option specific to this scenario. Unfortunately I don't think that update will ever come, as the dual 2x120 models configured in parallel now cover that scenario. Just don't have a 48V option for that, at least at this time.
I definitely wouldn't pass on that advice of programming the inverters so the "most important" air conditioner and the outlet circuits are on the primary inverter that will pass through. It will help a lot in those single phase scenarios, especially when using a generator to boost up the batteries on cloudy days or overnight. I've had folks with these systems up and running for a while who come to me for that service, with complaints that their single phase generator takes a long time to charge up the batteries when the air conditioner is on. Quick reprogram and /or move a couple circuits around in the breaker box, problem is solved :) Just make sure to keep the loads in the breaker box relatively balanced across the two legs if you do move them around.
@@AMPSolarRV-vc6ri I really could have used your help and knowledge during this installation :)
Thank you for going to all the trouble putting this system together for your friend, the filming and editing, the lead-in written description of this project and especially for putting yourself out there for potential rebuffs. You are far better educated and experienced than you verbalize and you certainly are not lazy nor a corner cutting operator. I don't think you have an unethical essence in you, but if so, it's definitely not functional. We're all so fortunate to have you and your shared wisdom as to why you, as a hands-on technical professional, choose what methods you do whether it's an upgrade or a repair and how to improve over factory engineering/practices or a mis-step on their assembler's part.
That is a very kind comment. Thank you!
I used those same black goo filled blocks for a couple of DC sides places when I did my big power system install. They are actually outside under the camper and have held up great for quite a while now. Definitely good stuff
That's great to hear, being UL listed or tested must be why they are so $$$$
I have been using them in marine environments for years and never had a failure.
@@AZExpert Yeah they definitely aren't cheap but I thinking certain situations the extra cost is warranted.
Started watching the videos for RV knowledge now I'm getting solar and other electrical vids.. Just hit jackpot in this channel.
I’m glad this is recorded because it’s gonna take me awhile to digest all this rich content. Crazy great!
Your explanations are close enough for practical purposes, and nothing major was wrong. But it's clear to me that you're smart enough to understand 240V split phase better than you do, if someone who understands it thoroughly and knows how to explain/teach things clearly, had taught it to you. As a retired engineer, I think an hour with an engineer would help you a lot. Of course, a retired electrician probably thinks an hour with an electrician would help you a lot.
Should we ever meet, I will bring an envelope to write on the back of, a pen, and enough money to buy you a beer or two. An hour later you would understand it almost as well as Edison himself, except that the connections between equations, graphs, physical reality, and worded explanations of all those things were second nature to him, and rarely become second nature to anyone in an hour. I'm sure Edison could also quickly solve problems for weird phasing angles, that you'd still struggle with, but you'd still understand how it would have to be solved in principle, even if you couldn't just write out the jargon of the equations, or tap the right buttons on a calculator for a specific weird problem.
Luckily 120V and 240V in the USA are not weird problems at all, mathematically or conceptually.
That's why you can say you don't really understand it, aren't a math guy, aren't an electrician, but still get things done fine.
Here is the course content/schedule to truly understand it.
I mean the math and physics of it, not electrical codes, rules of thumb, materials/equipment, etc.
10 minutes assessing math skills and electrical subject knowledge
10 minutes correcting any misconceptions about those
10 minutes explaining math functions in general, and when/why/how to use them
They can help to make a problem visual, where you can spot the answer by looking at a graph.
Staring at a graph helps most people more than staring at an equation.
Even when they are the exact same thing.
10 minutes explaining specific trigonometric functions and which ones apply to this
You don't need to be able to do solve trigonometry problems, or do any calculus
But being taught to visualize/draw the trig functions involved, is easy, and extremely valuable.
It is really tempting to skip this step for 120V single phase or 240V split phase
They are so simple that hand waving works, but getting deeper understanding is easy.
Anyone skipping this step will have REAL trouble understanding 208V 3-phase, etc.
Then they have to rely upon words and known results rather than really knowing what's going on.
Most 120V/240V explanations are like handing someone the fish, rather than teaching them to fish.
Maybe more like handing them a fish anytime they want, so they don't need to learn to fish.
10 minutes Q/A
5 minutes Final Exam lol
5 minutes Fixing any weaknesses
Then for 3-phase, you might already get it by then, or it might take another 30 minutes.
Probably there's a TH-cam video or twenty along those lines, but I'd still rather buy you a beer than trust a random TH-camr.
I've watched enough videos and get lost with the neutral coil tap on a step down transformer. Electron shells and the concept of the flow of electrons to do work by moving almost nothing from an atom that is both a partical and a wave along a path of conductors which at their core is mostly nothing too using the propeties of one of the fundamental forces to heat a wire and burn bread and make toast, is best described as magic to me, luckily smarter people have figured out the rules to it long ago. My electrical engineer friend tried to explain hole current to me once and I asked him to stop.
As usual you explain fine. If the guy that watches this doesn't understand, He should not attempt this mod. Nicely done sir!
Thank you very much!
Entertaining, honest and educational! Truly an inspirational work ethic James!
You explained everything very well. Best advantage with 48vdc is the better efficiency of inverting to 120vac.
You're doing a great job with this project as well as explaining everything to us. You're not confusing at all. I installed a large 48 volt solar system at my off-grid-cabin and now will be doing this type of install on our 2019 Tiffin 45 OPP. I am learning a lot from your install and taking plenty of notes along the way. THANK YOU!!
Awesome, thank you!
I just did a similar upgrade to my 2006 CC Intrigue. Removed the old Xantrex and replaced it with dual 24v Victron MP2(2x120) and 920ah 24v lithium batteries[. I had to repurpose a lot of the existing AC cable and split the incoming service and wiring to the 120v panels.
You do good work!
U did a good job explaining thing's. T keep it simple each multiplus takes a L1 and neatrul each at 25 amps together running both units, creating the 50 amp 240V the rv needs. Yes trying t explain it can b harder then doing it. I like ur videos keep them coming
Should be a neat setup. I suspect Victron will develop more options for split 120v ac inverter/chargers. If rigs are routinely coming with inverters it would be nice if the furnace, lights, water pump, jacks and what not could be 110. The only 12v battery you’d have to have would be for the break away.
Man, I wish I were out there to help you with this. I absolutely love this type of thing, and working with solar, charge controllers, and inverters is one of my favorite things. Also I've been doing a lot of research lately on doing something very similar to this for both our Monaco and our travel trailer. I wish I had room for the server rack batteries in my trailer, a 2016 Coachmen 293RLDS, but the front "basement" bay is too small to accept them, unlike this Jayco. A revelation I had recently: Move to a 12v Lifepo4 battery for the 12v systems. They last a lot longer than the lead acids, and their current capability is amazing. My slideouts, jack, and stabilizers now run out faster and stronger than they ever did with the lead acid battery. It's really a game-changer, as strange as it sounds. And you're absolutely right, the 12v battery is acting just like a big capacitor for the high amperage 12v systems, so you don't need a huge DC/DC converter - it just needs to be able to keep the LFP battery topped off while running a few low-wattage lights. Personally I'm going to go with 48v systems as well, but I understand the reasoning to stay with lower voltages too. But "go big or go home" is always my motto. Please also cover the repair of the rear cap, I'd be super interested to see that! Thanks for sharing, I love all the details!
50A in RVs is basically the same concept as running two regular 110v extension cords to your RV and running half the RV on one extension cord and half on the other. Theoretically the two line wires in a 50a service will make 220v, but for RV purposes it is completely irrelevant. It is confusing when you first learn that nothing is actually running at 220v in your big new RV. But it is an important concept to understand when you start modifying them and installing RV plug pedestals.
I really enjoy your video found it funny at times. You know with the batteries near the inverters even if you used 12vdc the distance would not have been very far so cost would still not be a factor is the way I see it. What is nice if your Charge Controller will go 400vdc input or higher.
So cool James! Always enjoy your vast knowledge.
I appreciate that!
Informative Video , i have found using multi volt golf cart converters to 12 volt works well on 12 volt wired rv;s have used more than 1 easy . Thanks Bill
I enjoyed watching this particularly because i did an almost identical system in my 2013 JAYCO 20E TRAVEL TRAILER. I did go with 24 volt, also a rack battery and i did exactly ehat you did in splicing into and using existing wiring crom the breaker panel to a junction box where i then also connectted the inverter in / out and shore power in ..I also used a 24 to 12 transformer, 24 volt 200 watt panels ( x4) o n a track system that I addedd the ability to incline the panels as needed. Used a 24 volt 2000 watt inverter/ solor controller. Pretty much half your system with not quite half the work I guessing. Working like a champ.
Love your videos! I do this for a living and have become a huge 48 volt fan as well. There was one product that made the switch easier for me. There is one company I have found that makes a 48 volt to 13.8 volt step down converter in amperages that make it possible to eliminate having to keep the existing battery/s. Daygreen is their name. I don't work for nor have an affiliation with this company.
Make sure you don't buy the 48v to 12v units; the 12 volt version will have issues with a lot of hydraulic systems; they will often stall due to them reading low voltage power. Best of luck!
I feel your pain on running wires. I just installed a new backup camera on my Marquis and it was a pain to hide that wire and fish it through everywhere. Next upgrade is upgrading the remote door lock control and a key pad.
P=IE and E=IR.
I can understand using 48v for smaller gauge wire But always wondered why not 12v on an RV or boat. Your system makes sense using those 48v batteries only for AC power.
My issue would be the Orion. The 12v to 12v I charge 1200Ah lithium from an acid battery gets really hot. I assume the 48v to 12v also gets hot. When I am charging from solar, I do not want to waste so much energy heating the DC to DC device. My two 30 amp Orion get so hot I can hold my hand on them. I wonder how many watt-hours are wasted there.
If Victron page is correct is 87% efficient I am using 93.6 watts just in heat, One system I have uses four Renogy 100 watt panels. Just the heat would easily waste one panel.
I heard Victron was improving the efficiency on the newer Orions. You might look into the one you bought.
I also do not like making heat. There is compromise in every venture though. :)
With that solar setup on top, the RV kinda looks like a caboose! Love your videos!
It does!
When in Ohm, one must follow Ohm’s laws. 😳
James, great video and very truthful. Thanks. Can I clarify one comment. You stated having 24 VDC was easier and if you needed 12 VDC you simply drew it off of the one battery in n the series circuit. Having done many of these systems in the past you NEVER center tap a series ESS (energy storage system) It off balances the circuit and one battery will dies quickly. Otherwise great content.
I understand your concerns but I do not share them. Bus conversions have been doing this for decades.
@@AZExpert thanks for the reply. Just because it’s been done for years does not make it right. We have learned so much about ESS failures and many come from out of balance series circuits. Best practice, put in a 24 to 12 convertor. Keep up the great work!
@@daleconstantine5635 I would be interested in knowing how out of balance a bank could be with a tap in a bank. The batteries should still balance and charge voltage should not be affected. I'm still very unconvinced by merely stating best practices. Is it a 0.05% or 5% reduction of battery bank life or 45% in 3 or 10 years? I would argue that if it has worked for decades it works.
@@AZExpert good research material is Wiring Unlimited Rev 06 white paper from Victron available from their website. See chapter 3.4 Battery Bank Balancing. I have had many incidences I have had to investigate as part of my job of reliability. With battery failures this balancing issue was paramount to rectifying the repair and eliminating designed induced failures. Enjoy the read.
@@daleconstantine5635 There was one sentence and it was hardly compelling reasoning.
Wow, what a job. Your a good friend. Thanks Don
I hope you have an idea of where the next wire will go. I’m just watching. I have a cord and will just plug it in. It’s simple. 😊
Yeah, about a year ago I made a video about all in one systems being the way to go because they are so much easier, but there is still a lot of push back as being prone to failure or high price. But I still feel they are likely going to be more popular over time.
@@AZExpert I think you are right on that.
A quick FYI....a lot of campgrounds will not give you 240 volts between the 2 line lines. They are splitting and connecting both legs to the same phase.
I hope that campground carries good liability. You potentially have 100 amps on a neutral meant for 50 amps. I always verify that it is true 50 amp out of phase.
👍 When you're not actually doing electrical but listening to someone explain it... ouch! Looking damn good though.
Unless you enjoy white noise for sleeping, do not put these near the bed, unless that's the only place they could possibly go. Those multipluses are pretty noisy. They have a pretty loud hum when a lot of current is going through them either inverting or charging. I put one in a washer/dryer cabinet in the hallway near the bed. I didn't realize how loud these things can be. Luckily I sleep with a white noise generator or I don't think I'd be able to sleep with it 10 feet from my bed.
It's my experience they are much quieter than xantrex or magnum and produce much less heat
@@AZExpert Don't get me wrong. I think Victron is the best, and they may be quieter, but they are definitely not quiet. I just wish any of the content creators had mentioned that these things are NOT silent. I'm not even talking about the fan, but the electric hum of transformed electricity.
James I didn’t understand anything you said about electricity but I enjoyed the video nonetheless! ✌🏽
I watched it and felt the same way too ;)
@@AZExpert I meant that with all the respect for you and what you do. Electricity is just not my thing. ✌🏽
James you mentioned bonding neutral and ground. That can only be done at the main. Campers are not bonded. The neutral and ground are separated.
correct, the neutral is not bonded to chassis or earth on a RV, but the concept of neutral is still wild when it comes to the windings on the step down transformers anyway and really get into the weeds more than a RV electrical video should venture.
When the generating source resides from the RV itself, neutral and ground are bonded. This takes place in the generator or inverter.
Whoa, alot work James, Thanks for the video.
Keep this content coming
thank you!
James wire nuts are fine!
❤Awesome 😎. Thank you so much!
The neutral carry's the unbalanced current.
If you had a perfectly balanced load of let's say for example: 40 amps on the black (L1) and 40 amps on the red (L2); then you should have zero on the white (N).
If you turned 20 amps worth of load OFF on L1, you are now unbalanced; you now have 20 amps on L1 and 40 amps still on L2. The unbalanced portion of 40 - 20 = 20 amps will now be carried by the neutral (N).
I think the reason for 48v is that all of the components are not only cheaper but more accessible. 24 volts requires series connecting 12 volt batteries and is problematic because each battery has a bms and a failure with that disables your entire system. Where a 48 volt battery has only one bms and is paralleled for more capacity. If one cell goes down the rest of the system keeps going just turn off the effected battery and you still have lights and cooking. 4 -12v batteries from battle born is $4000. But one 48 volt same capacity battery from EG4 is $1200. One quarter the price, same 10 year warrentee and are waterproof and ul listed, and takes up WAY LESS SPACE. CHEERS AND SAFE TRAVELS Steve h
all your points are correct. So far the best thing I see about the "GameChanger" is that it can be mounted very easily and made into larger voltages easily too. I am not sure the price is worth that, but even 12vdc LiFePO batteries get complicated to mount in large numbers.
I chose a 24v system because it was easier to get 24v down to 12v (victron orion) and also use my alternator 12v system to charge the batteries while towing. I built 2 24v 280ah batteries (overkill solar bms eve cells) feel that this allows for redundant batteries.
I think you invoked your inner railfan with that solar install as the profile of the RV looks like an old school caboose. 😅
It looks like a trolley roof to me too.
As an electrician of 40+ years the Polaris setscrew
connectors your using are far superior to using wire nuts
Much easier on my hands too and in tight spaces
This is exactly what I want on my 1998 Newell!!! Do you have a diagram for the component install please???
Great video James.
Not sure the Victron will do a good job of maintaining charge in the 12 volt lead acid battery. It has a fixed output voltage (adjustable via a potentiometer, but not automatically managing charging voltage) where a "smart charger" would vary charging voltage over the charge cycle.
I'm not an electrician but an EE. Maybe that's close enough to shudder. I don't know of a cheap better solution.
Seems like the lower the volts the faster current needs to flow that’s why you need the heavier gauge wire to get the watts you need to power things and vise versa with higher volts? And amps is the flow of current pressure that’s why the higher volts creates more pressure uses less amps and less heat is created? Is that even close to being right? And that’s why 240v appliances uses half the amps and are more efficient?
Another great video. 👍
Any issues putting all the added electronics in front near the tongue?
The 460 ah 12 Volt Vader is the same price as the 100 ah 48V. Must REALLY wanted to go 48V because going 12 Volt you don't need the DC to DC converter and the extra 12 V battery and would have more capacity. I was anxious the entire video when you said you were using a 48 volt battery how you were going to run the 12 volt systems. Are you turning off the built in 12 volt charger or using it for the front 12 volt battery? I guess the DC to DC isolates the 48 V lithium from the 12V charger so that is kind of a cool plus.
Yes, the 48vdc battery is the real house battery it just has a tap to keep the 12vdc systems working and the 12vdc battery just is there for a little extra ompf when needed and electric trailer brakes.
It is fairly typical in 24V and 48V systems to have a 12V "down-buffer" battery for legacy 12V stuff. Its just a DC-DC charger (48-to-12 charger) and a single 12.8V battery with enough amperage to run the equipment (such as jacks and brakes). The charger doesn't have to be powerful... it can usually be small since the physical battery handles all the surges and heavy loads. 4-8A is pretty typical (thus also fanless). And the battery can just be a typical group-24 sized 12.8V LiFePO4 battery.
There are numerous advantages to doing this, not the least of which being that the isolation from the home battery system means that voltage sag and other issues caused by large 12V surges / loads (such as jacks) have no effect whatsoever on the home system.
Alternator charging of the home system is another issue that comes up. 12-to-24 DC-DCs are fairly common but 12-to-48 is not. One solution is to just hang a 12V inverter off the regular alternator / starter battery bus that is enabled when the engine is running, and run the AC into one of the AC inputs of the multiplus (or something similar).
Interesting that Jayco placed the power distribution box under the sink area. Hmmm.
funny story, that was the location the owner wanted the batteries and inverters....the sink fell out and overflowed a few days after he picked up so I am glad I didn't put them there.
I would have used PVC conduit an connectors to make all the wires protected from impact....also a neater look when finished
The inverters do not have the ability to accept glands or simple conduit connectors easily. Conduit can be great in exposed wiring but very uncommon on RVs and has to be sized correctly making neat installations more difficult. There can be a balance between functional and neatness and cost, but this installation is far from done, and serviceability is very important too.
48v system will have 4x Less current draw at any given load vs 12v system. Advantage is 4x less amps so can use smaller wiring.
My brain still short circuits with the new math, even though everyone up to Elon musk uses it. Back when I went to school 4x (4 times) something was MORE, NOT Less. I would have said 48v system will have 1/4th the current draw...
(1/4th an apple being LESS than an apple, while 4x an apple is 4 apples which is MORE than one. 4 apples is Never LESS than one apple.)
Do you offer consulting? I have a Class C, 1987, and I deleted the generator, and want to go solar. Nothing crazy, It's just me. RV has no sliders, leveling jacks...
I was thinking 24 volt solar, to solar controller, to batteries, to inverter, then to 12v RV fuse panel.
I'm so stressed!!!
The telephony infrastructure in this country has been using -48 volts for many decades. It seems the rest of the industries are finally catching up.
The neutral wire only carries the “difference” in amps between the 2 lines. If you’re running 15 amps on each line the neutral has 0 amps. 15 amps on one line and 0 amps on the other and neutral has 15 amps etc..
yes, I said balance when I should have said difference.
James, I noticed your friends trailer storage, was framed in aluminum. Is aluminum an indicator of better overall trailer quality versus wood? Thanks
yes, better quality and lighter weight and more expensive, quality maybe not the best indicator.
Lighter mostly
Quality is objective and mostly related to manufacturers integrity.
Since, while traveling, RVs are constantly moving around..and the tensile strength of the aluminum ,if too ridged, can Crack. Wood suffers flexing better...without cracking
Time Stamp 05:16. Curious. Is it possible to Use the existing shore plug, and add a 2nd shore plug to do what you are doing?
I don't see how without adding a transfer switch or manual disconnect.
I would have used Victron 48V MultiPlus-II 5kVA. they are only $1,712 each or a EG4 6000XP Off-Grid All-in-One Inverter/Charger for $1,400
how does that help? it still only has one line input so I would need 2 and while more power is better, when spending other people's money, I try to balance need and cost.
One thing to note is that the Victron Multiplus-II's have very low idle current in normal operating (NON-eco) mode. Its like 12W for the 3KVA and 15W for the 5KVA. The 6000XP and, in fact, nearly all other all-in-one solar inverter-chargers have far higher idle consumption on the inverter output.
The 6000XP is quite nice, but it isn't as nice as a Multiplus-II. Also the solar input is also of very limited usefulness on most inverter-chargers... they usually can't charge from solar AND the AC input at the same time, for example.
So it is far better to have something like a Multiplus-II and one or more external charge controllers. More expensive, but better.
-Matt
OMG!! I'm sooo.. confused. 🧐
me too, and I said it, did it, edited it, and watched it. Sorry, I just tried to cover too much but also it was information I think people need too.
You should change your channel to solar James
Right? I am so sick of solar right now! :)
So where is the problem? You've done a dual monophase system.. I don't think there is a problem
Posting wiring videos always has the risk of being "corrected" . I'm happy there hasn't been any unkindness and little corrections :)
You named 20 pros of 48 and u still seem skeptical lol.
its a lot work :)
🤛👍🙏😎🦅🇺🇸
Again, higher voltage, lower amperage (V=IR) in order to for this equation to be maintained. Lower amperage, lower resistance, less heat dissipation and more efficiency (less wasted heat in the form of energy). By no means James are you lazy. Not by any stretch of the imagination.
Thanks, I fogot that was also a benefit of higher voltage. I still can't make Ohm's law makes practical sense as increase in resistance should mean higher amps and less resistance is less amps, but a direct short is no resistance and maxium current, while a open is maximum resistance but no current flow.
@@AZExpert Yup. Electrical Engineers try to make it confusing while Electronics Engineers really know how to break it down. I'm neither, but spent many years around them. That is how I learned respect for Electricity.
From a practical standpoint you can think about it like a hose. If you reduce the hole size of a hose you reduce the flow of water through that hose. You're increasing the resistance so decreasing the flow. It's kind of the same thing with electricity. The higher the resistance the harder is for electricity to move through the component and if the component is in line with everything else it bottlenecks The whole circuit.@@AZExpert
Its actually even better than that. Lets calculate the cabling losses.
V = I * R
P = I * V
now substitute for (V):
P = I * (I * R)
P = I * I * R
The power (P) lost through the cabling (and equipment) as heat is a function of the SQUARE of the current, which means that at 48V all of your cabling losses are 1/16th what they would be if you were running 12V and using the same cable sizes.
Of course, when wiring for 48V there is no need to use ultra-thick cables. After all, 100A @ 51.2V nominal (LiFePO4) = 5000W+ with only 2 AWG cabling. So when one takes into account the thinner cables, the losses actually do become more linear... but you can still count on 48V having 1/4th the losses of 12V.
This, by the way, is also why the electric grid pumps the voltage up for longer-distance transmission. Doubling the voltage results in 1/4th the losses. Pump it up massively and losses go down massively. Hence why the grid is so efficient at moving electricity long distances.
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Other advantages of going 48V:
* Smaller charge controllers. A 40A charge controller in a 12V system can handle around 512W worth of solar. That same 40A charge controller in a 48V system, however, can handle 2048W worth of solar.
* Much thinner cabling means reduced cost and weight. By a lot.
* Easier to parallel higher-voltage batteries without needing insanely thick cabling to do it.
* Simpler, smaller breakers because the amperages are lower.
* Ability to use a larger percentage of the battery's amperage capabilities to actually take in power from external sources and deliver power to appliances.
* Devices (your inverters, chargers, solar charge controllers, etc...) are all smaller, produce far less heat, and can handle a lot more power. So the equipment can operate in harsher environments without imploding.
-Matt
Great description of the additional advantages, to include the ability to use smaller capacity devices and higher gauge wiring. This really helps with overall upfront hardware costs in addition to the efficiency benefits. I thought about that, but my knowledge is limited at best and I am glad you took the time to educate us all!
It's 60k times a sec, just saying...lol
It's 60 cycles per second not 60 thousand times per second
60Hz is 60 cycles per second…NOT 60,000 (60k) as you incorrectly stated.
I always feel disappointed whenever I eat at Jimmy John’s or Carl’s junior like I just got ripped off a little bit and thing could have been better. Is it just me.
it was soooooo dry and very disappointing :)
The REAL reason to go with 48v vs 12 or 24 is voltage ripple, which will murder capacitors in inverters.
48v will have half the DC ripple for a given load than a 24v one.
You can add smoothing capacitors to bandaid ripple, but that is an added expense and quite a bit of calculations to get the right size. Too large can be just as harmful as too small.
16:40 You state that you have 35a AC on each inverter. That is incorrect. The 35a is the battery charge, not the input. Those 3kva inverters output 2400w, or 20a each at 120v continuous. So you have 40a total out of the 100a available from shore power.
You also could have done a 5k inverter with a 30a shore power, unless you need that extra 800w of power.
yeah, victrons ratings are weird
@@AZExpert I love victron, but I'm going with EG4 in my current build. Victron is just too cost prohibitive to get what I need.
NEVER draw 12v from a 24v system as you suggest in the video!!! You will kill the 24v system. The same goes for any other voltage as well. You should ALWAYS use a DC-DC converter and a proper voltage battery.
Im speaking specifically about tapping off one of the two series batteries in a 24v system just as you suggest in the video. You wouldn't be able to easily do a midpoint tap from a 24v battery.
I understand what you are saying, but also I know most motorcoaches use 12vdc batteries for 24vdc and still have 12vdc systems and tap off of them for that purpose too, and they've been doing it for decades.
@@AZExpert any RV manufacturer that does such a thing should not be in business. I have worked on many motorhomes and never saw a combined bank. There has always been a separate coach and engine battery, and even a separate generator battery in many cases. Note that I haven't worked on every brand or model, and generally have worked on newer ones, so I'll admit there are probably some shady practices being utilized in some brands.
Newmar has done it for years with 6 volt batteries for dimming the ceiling lights, Liberty Coach and Marathon and other converters have done it for decades build luxury motor coaches, neither is shady and has nothing to do with the chassis batteries or generator battery being a combined bank. On buses, generally the chassis is 24vdc so it charges the house batteries with 24vdc and many house circuits are 24 vdc like the inverters, but the rest of the house systems are 12vdc and require tapping into the 24vdc house battery bank for 12vdc. It really is not the big issue you are saying it is.
@@AZExpert it absolutely IS an issue, especially when you move into lithium batteries. That is a bad business practice, and very hard on batteries. I have worked on both Marathon and Liberty, and I have never seen a combined 12/24 volt system on any of them.
@@charlieodom9107 I do not know what to tell you if you have worked on the buses and have not seen 24/12 vdc on the house batteries, even on golf carts, often reverse is tapped into 36 volt on 48 volt or 24 on 36 so it drives slower in reverse, im still not sold that its hard on batteries to be discharged no matter the configuration, while I could see drawing one battery down substaintially in a series bank could be a liability to the bank if taken to the extreme, LED lights and control circuits or small draws would not stress any lead acid let alone a lithium setup.