It had been sword/shield of Imperium in index and became sword/shield of chapter in codex. Like now you are protecting only chapter, not Imperium as whole
A few weeks back, John reviewed a BA list that had 2 x 6 BGV. One with a Chaplain, one with A Judiciar - both in Impulsor. I keep thinking about that list... it seems VERY strong. (and a 3rd Impulsor with a Fister Captain + Assault Intercessors with the sustain 3 enhancement)
Hi John, great video! They’re both well balanced units in the end. I play terminators because their shooting is better than you give credit for because you don’t include it in any of your maths past the first bit and it’s particularly useful against chaff, so against t3 enemies you can damage them without moving which means the terminators can contribute even if you want them to stand on a point. Also, I think they can also be viable without a character, doubling down on the points efficiency. Yes jmpulsors are useful but almost any squad allows you to take one. Lastly I think the deep strike marker plays with your opponents mind and they often overreact to it which is useful.
Hey John! Great video as always, I really like termies, so I’m happy you got the time to talk about them. I was wondering if you’ll talk about the world championship list that did well, there’s a surprising amount of fire support in those lists that I’d think is really interesting to touch upon.
New Blood Angel player here (I started the hobby last year with Deathwatch, guess what happened). I've been using the judiciar with blade guard transported by an impulsor, I valued the built -in fights first and precision rather highly as I think their heroic intervention threat is really strong. You've made me reconsider this, I now realise there is huge value in the regular chaplains +1 to wound, so I'm going to try a 5 man terminator squad.
Great video thanks John, very interesting stats. I run a LRR and the BGV either get out and screen it to become an unchargeable brick against a melee army or they sit nice and cosy before diving out T2 onward and wrecking something. There's also a rage captain in there with 5 assault intercessors for properly tough targets.
Great video, thanks for putting it together 👍 For me it shows they are situation specific- if I want a unit to sit on central objective and be a significant defensive threat, it's terminators. If I want a solid all round damage unit (with an action monkey transport) then it's bladeguard Or ofc course take both 😂
Hi John, thanks for this great video. I'm also using both of them actually 10 terminators in a foot blob mostly close to the middle. Thats a statement where the enemy has to take care of. The bladeguard are on foot with a chaplain. The mobility is coming from the jumppacks and advance and charge
Excellent video John. I’ve been questioning my use of JPDC with Astorath or Lemartes due to them hitting like a train but then vaporising and I can’t justify the expense for such a 1 turn glass hammer. I love my Termies with Speed of the Primarch Chaplain and strategic use of Rapid Ingress and I’ve been running my Smash Captain and AIs in an impulser to great effect. I think it’s time to switch out my DC for a second Impulsor and BGV with Chaplain and probably give this unit the Speed of the Primarch enhancement. Love your comparison Termies and BGV and bottom line I think is take both as they compliment extremely well.
Bladeguard are one of my favourite units but they do feel like a only useful once per game unit, people can get around fights first sometimes and if your apponent can get hold of them in shooting they just fall over, most importantly ap 2 feels like it's very common especially in combat where armour of contempt comes in huge for the terminators and does nothing for bladeguardthe. 4+ fnp vs dev wounds can come up a fair bit also. Plus going aggressive into large targets the shooting from the terminators can really help chip wounds with the missile launcher or clear screens with mass bolter fire and frag grenade launcher. Bladeguard feel like a solid staging unit if they have the fights first where as terminators feel like they can be more aggressive especially with rapid ingress and can will survive a lot more of the slap back. Personally though I'm loving using assault terminators currently. Great video man really love just how in depth you went with it :)
Great Video this week! I've been toying with the idea of using BGV, a lieutenant with Power fist and Blade Guard Ancient with the fights first enhancement. Lieutenant with fallback and charge and Leathals, Ancient with the once per game +1 attack. Ancient Provides extra OC as well so If you battleshock them through a strat (Like +1 str and hit) the unit will still have OC (except this is while Ancient is alive as opposed to once per game from the Chaplain). All 7 fit in an Impulsor as well.
I think it’s about matching up with your “main” damage. I.e. terminators match up with sang guard and BGV match with DCwJP. You need a mix of s10 and s7
That BGV damage vs high toughness was surprising to me. I think I lean towards BGV for the simple reason that you’re putting the pressure on your opponent to make sure their positioning is perfect to avoid being within charge distance turn 2 - compared to terms where the pressure is on you to make that teleport position right.
Interesting video. Does it have to be one or the other? My thought is if you have the jump units as the hammer, I'd like a blob of Terminators as the anvil. I'm not sure if what I want to do is possible yet as it's only loose in my mind. I have 2 Ballistus Dreads - it will be 3 at some point - and I have the FOMO box. I'm subscribed to Combat Patrol and I have the Leviathan Set. So I have 5 Terminators and another 5 coming at some point. I'll probably get the BA Combat Patrol as well and that would probably include Dante because once you have the Sanguinary Guard, why not. I'm thinking of going 3 Ballistus Dreads plus Terminators - 5 or 10 I don't know yet - plus whatever jump units and maybe Infiltrators - if I feel I need to protect my home objective - to full out the rest of the points.
@@sludgedisciple Total Shooting Damage per Turn: 12.16 (with Sustained Hits) • Total Melee Damage per Turn: 30.57 (with Sustained Hits and Liberator Assault Group rule) this is in a vacume without addin in any stratagems or oath
Against Angron's high toughness and invulnerable save, the unit is capable of dealing around 4.33 damage per turn in the shooting phase and around 19.88 damage per turn in the melee phase. Keep in mind, the invulnerable save may reduce this further.
I played it a couple of times in a 10 man where I think the unit really shines with the libby. With the Libby depending on the situation you have access to whatever you need. With speed of the primarch added this is a serious rapid ingeress into heroic intervention threat against your enemy big hitter. Tried it with both assault termi LC and normal termies
I prefer bladeguard because I get a dopamine hit whenever I scout-move a transport, then unload it, then load it with shock troops turn 1 and move it into position
Slap an incursor into the Impulsor, the impulsor scout moves 6 inch Turn 1, offload incursors, onload BGV, moves wherever it needs to Turn 2, offload and charge Is it practical? No, not at all But it makes me feel like I have at least 1 wrinkle in my brain lol
A very good breakdown. The only question that remains is does the 33% Impulsor tax get written off by Oath being free for other units. As the Bladeguard are very self-sufficient, and freeing up Oath to allow it to boost other units for an 2-4 turns (as neither bladeguard or terms are using it turn 1) has the potential to write-off the Impulsor and then some, if it enables multiple turns of 10%+ extra efficiency from a different unit
If you divide by the points cost of the unit (possibly including transports) you automatically get a more apples to apples comparison. If you don't like the small numbers you will get, you can just multiply all of them by 100. This is basically what Auspex does.
I have both in my list . I put the Terminator Chaplain with Terminators and Captain with Relic shield. I also put the Relic Shield on Terminator Chaplain. Both are very good,but I do think the Blade Guard in the Impulsor may have a slight lead.
Hey so I watched your old video about chaplain and librarian in termie armour and decided to buy the librarian for my termie squad. Is he still viable even after the changes do you think?
It depends on what you are going for/prefer. The Term Libby will give you more overall damage on an Oath target. But when you are being charged you may not have Oath on that target, so you get less benefit when you are on defense. The Term Chappy's +1 to wound is useful for both defense and offense. You can pop the +1 to wound strat on the lIbby Term unit if you have the CP, but in the same situation the Term Chappy Unit can pop the +1 attack strat instead. The added fnp against mortals generally makes the chaplain the overall winner for myself personally, but they are both just really good. The new balance patch is coming out soon, so a few things may change.
Taking both to a Super GT this weekend, will see how they go in 5 rounds of sweaty fun! 😀 The two units are: 6 BGV with a Judiciar to bully the midboard and heroic for scary counter punches. 5 Terminators with a Term Chaplain for +1 to wound and 4+++ vs devs and mortals, to help them bring down tougher targets (saving Red Rampage CP for other units) and make them resilient against nasty mortals.
Something i think is interesting, The stormbolters from the terminators and chaplain far exceed the BGV in taking out chaff and clearing t3 units. And theres potential to bait the enemy to try and block the teleport homer if its in a tricky spot
I use one squad of each, TBH. The Blade guard go on a relatively fixed trajectory, and the terminators typically rapid ingress on a weak flank and hold it themselves.
Credit due to GW for really balancing these units. I’m currently running the Termie squad and I am really happy with it. I am really considering running a BGV squad over the DC Brick and moving the FF to that Chaplain.
So, let's say we put the usual Dante+SG and Lem+DC in deep strike. Then we have our Captain in Impulsor, our regular jump packs/outriders to go forwards quickly. Would a foot slogging BGV unit be a bad idea? Thus removing the need for an Impulsor?
I think both are viable, the biggest factor is play style. When I build my list, every unit has a role. If I’m taking terminators, I take assault with the shield for the additional wound because I want a brick of a unit. To me, Blade guard aren’t much different than DC in that they’re fairly glass cannnony. Yes they are a little more survivable, but they aren’t the hardest thing to kill, do they’re a trading unit.
Enjoyed the video! Did have a quick question. Was considering an alt build, where BGV is being led by Judiciar and the 6 man Sanguinary Guard is being led by Captain w/ Jump Pack w/ Speed of the Primarch. What is your take on this? It feels far more threatening to the opponent in regards to charge risks, but am curious how the numbers stack up.
In the survivability section, what did the numbers actually represent?? For example, the Chaplain has 4 Toughness, 3+ save, 4++ invuln, and 4 wounds, but what about the rest of the row? Is that percent chance to survive?? Wounds taken?? Clearly the higher number means it’s more survivable, I’m just a little confused on that. Otherwise great video as ever John
I think you could run either or, I've built lists with either as sometimes I need that 80pts impulsor elsewhere. Haven't ran the terms yet but will give them a try, as you found out the other day getting a squad of BGV doom bolted sucks so a 4+++ would be useful. I really like the BGV as I find they are abit more flexible but depending on the rest of the list that 20 S10 PF can replace alot of the vehicle hitting melee we lost from DC and they are alot more survivable.
Two things to look at: BGV compared to (1) A terminator squad led by a librarian. Exploding 6s in booth shooting and melee against oath targets is no joke and (2) twin-lightning claw terminators led by a chaplain: against an oath of moment target is re-roll all hits and wounds. Tasty, very tasty. Max damage is less, but way, way more reliable due to re-rolls to wound.
@@ba_commander 6 attacks on the charge... probably needs to be 7, but 30 attacks will full re-rolls to hit and wounds against an oath target is very reliable. On another note, Captain + Ancient is also tasty - as you point out, terminators are more survivable, so on the swing-back they lose a few then fight harder and harder after that :)
@ sure but your comparing 35 damage to 72 damage. Even with rerolls I don’t think it compares? Thinking about this more maybe it’s worth taking a look at.
@@ba_commander The max damage is definitely lower, and you'd have to be very careful about what you charge them into, but full re-rolls to hit and wound is fairly rare for melee units, so the reliability in terms of the difference between max/min damage is very likely going to be less. Also, thanks for all your videos, they are super informative :D
I might be the only one doing it but I play a squad of 10 assault terminators with claws and chaplain and fight first. It tears everything apart - everything! A very very sharp swiss knife..
@@ba_commander true. But it helps me a lot against all the damage reduction, aeldari, custodes,.. Anyway love your vids, know how much effort doing youtube is. Highly appreciated! 🎉🎉🎉
I have played both in multiple games against World Eaters. And honestly, the Bladeguard typically kill whatever they hit if they get the charge off. Unfortunately I made a bad choice with the terminators and ended up in combat with a mauler fiend. The termies are tanky, for sure. But the second round of combat I failed a lot of my invuls so the mauler fiend chewed them up. Honestly, Impulsor or not I am contemplating a second unit of Bladeguard maybe with a Judiciar.
I did a video in the librarian in a few weeks ago, he’ll do more damage offensively especially if used red rampage. Search blood angels commander terminators you’ll probably find the video.
New to blood angels but from what I can gather there should be another unit for comparison against the blade guard in particular. The amount of points a Captain w/rage + Lieutenant w/speed + 5 assault intercessors + impulsor is LESS than bladeguard + chaplain w/speed + impulsor and has an insane amount of potential damage. Maybe something to think about?
I don’t think fight first with S4 or 1ap is particularly exciting. The rage captain with a unit is another choice for sure. I have a video made for that on the tactics playlist.
In true primaris fashon, the shoot only terminators have a completely op Melee profile. They are the Stop gap model untill Assault Terminators get upscaled then they will nerf chain fists
Bgv are great in melee and bring a lot of their own power buffs. Termies should be led by a librarian(lethals in shooting matters). And should be the target for oath and for RR.
@ :)). I eventually landed on this list for 1000 pts games. Commander Dante (130pts): Warlord 5x Intercessor Squad (80pts) 5x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (90pts) 5x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (90pts) 5x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (90pts) 6x Sanguinary Guard (260pts) 3x Sanguinary Guard (130pts) Ballistus Dreadnought (130pts) The Chaplain version would swap out the Intercessors and one JPI for the Chaplain + 3x BG.
I advanced and charged Dante and 6 sang guard into BG vets with fights first Chappie. I took two wounds, then left the squad with 1 model and the character. I like Flame aggressors and fights first on a Captain with them.
I think the chaplain may not always be worth it on the terminators, S10 is fine on the charge against a lot of targets. It's a bigger deal for the bladeguard. You can get 10 terminators (probably 2x5) for 5 fewer points than the Bladeguard, chaplain, impulsor combo.
You pretty much have to attach an Ancient, and pray one of your terminators die so you can get the +1 to hit buff before they are good. Imagine getting hit by a suppressor unit, well now they hit on 5+. A 75 point unit basically turns your Assault terms into a punching bag. With the Ancient you will at least hit on 4's again eventually. While regular Terms hit on a 2+ into an oath Target for both melee and shooting, and has a choice of multiple Leader units. What they need to do is make it so their hit roll is un-modifiable so they always hit on a 4+, never less. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take them in a for fun game, but I'd have an Ancient and a Captain attached to make some crazy 12 man blob.
You're getting rather popular, lets get a high quality mic?... is it time yet? Lol it would be much more pleasent to listen to, for whatever thats worth.
I do have a good mic I guess I probably just need to figure out how to use it in OBS properly. I’ll see if I can get some better settings for my pre-recorded videos appreciate the feedback.
Drop lemartes. Might as well take a regular chaplain for the plus 1 to wound, unless you like wounding with 6s on your chainswords. Also his def waive buff is pointless. -1 damage. Big deal if you’re facing D6+1 damage. Drop the Ballistus X2,BG and termies as well all chaff units
@@Chasemcloud5745 mate..... Who's shooting d6+1 damage into 2 wound marines? An absolute waste of fire power, and anything 1d6+1 is going to have few shots, so youll take minimum loses. And if that's being shot at your marines, you've already lost. And why drop the dreads and chaff? BAC has clearly sang their praise as great back line anti tank and support that forces your opponent to close, and their S9 feet on a charge supports nearby infiltrators holding rear objective. And marines need chaff. You need things to hold objectives and move around. Outriders and scouts are both mandatory for scoring. Have you actually even played a game before?? Doesn't sound like it
@ I play two times a week. Your first point I was referring to lemartes and how his damage reduction buff is pointless. Dreads are chaff as full melee is best for LAG
It had been sword/shield of Imperium in index and became sword/shield of chapter in codex. Like now you are protecting only chapter, not Imperium as whole
Thank you I thought it was going insane!
I will say the maths surprised me and it makes me rethink the whole “ full squad of fists” thought. I’m now wondering about BGV vs JPDC
A few weeks back, John reviewed a BA list that had 2 x 6 BGV. One with a Chaplain, one with A Judiciar - both in Impulsor. I keep thinking about that list... it seems VERY strong. (and a 3rd Impulsor with a Fister Captain + Assault Intercessors with the sustain 3 enhancement)
Hi John, great video! They’re both well balanced units in the end. I play terminators because their shooting is better than you give credit for because you don’t include it in any of your maths past the first bit and it’s particularly useful against chaff, so against t3 enemies you can damage them without moving which means the terminators can contribute even if you want them to stand on a point. Also, I think they can also be viable without a character, doubling down on the points efficiency. Yes jmpulsors are useful but almost any squad allows you to take one. Lastly I think the deep strike marker plays with your opponents mind and they often overreact to it which is useful.
Great video, John! Usually I'd go for the rule of cool but both units are stunning so that's no help 😂
Thank you for crunching these numbers and going through it so coherently- loved it! 🍻
You're so welcome!
Deep strike Terminator bricks for move blocking wins games. Use them the way guard uses infantry blobs.
Hey John! Great video as always, I really like termies, so I’m happy you got the time to talk about them. I was wondering if you’ll talk about the world championship list that did well, there’s a surprising amount of fire support in those lists that I’d think is really interesting to touch upon.
Great suggestion!
New Blood Angel player here (I started the hobby last year with Deathwatch, guess what happened). I've been using the judiciar with blade guard transported by an impulsor, I valued the built -in fights first and precision rather highly as I think their heroic intervention threat is really strong. You've made me reconsider this, I now realise there is huge value in the regular chaplains +1 to wound, so I'm going to try a 5 man terminator squad.
Great video thanks John, very interesting stats. I run a LRR and the BGV either get out and screen it to become an unchargeable brick against a melee army or they sit nice and cosy before diving out T2 onward and wrecking something. There's also a rage captain in there with 5 assault intercessors for properly tough targets.
Great video, thanks for putting it together 👍
For me it shows they are situation specific- if I want a unit to sit on central objective and be a significant defensive threat, it's terminators.
If I want a solid all round damage unit (with an action monkey transport) then it's bladeguard
Or ofc course take both 😂
Hi John, thanks for this great video. I'm also using both of them actually 10 terminators in a foot blob mostly close to the middle. Thats a statement where the enemy has to take care of. The bladeguard are on foot with a chaplain. The mobility is coming from the jumppacks and advance and charge
Excellent video John. I’ve been questioning my use of JPDC with Astorath or Lemartes due to them hitting like a train but then vaporising and I can’t justify the expense for such a 1 turn glass hammer. I love my Termies with Speed of the Primarch Chaplain and strategic use of Rapid Ingress and I’ve been running my Smash Captain and AIs in an impulser to great effect. I think it’s time to switch out my DC for a second Impulsor and BGV with Chaplain and probably give this unit the Speed of the Primarch enhancement. Love your comparison Termies and BGV and bottom line I think is take both as they compliment extremely well.
Thanks @BAC much appreciated.
Bladeguard are one of my favourite units but they do feel like a only useful once per game unit, people can get around fights first sometimes and if your apponent can get hold of them in shooting they just fall over, most importantly ap 2 feels like it's very common especially in combat where armour of contempt comes in huge for the terminators and does nothing for bladeguardthe. 4+ fnp vs dev wounds can come up a fair bit also. Plus going aggressive into large targets the shooting from the terminators can really help chip wounds with the missile launcher or clear screens with mass bolter fire and frag grenade launcher. Bladeguard feel like a solid staging unit if they have the fights first where as terminators feel like they can be more aggressive especially with rapid ingress and can will survive a lot more of the slap back. Personally though I'm loving using assault terminators currently. Great video man really love just how in depth you went with it :)
Fantastic breakdown video!
Glad you liked it!
Great Video this week! I've been toying with the idea of using BGV, a lieutenant with Power fist and Blade Guard Ancient with the fights first enhancement.
Lieutenant with fallback and charge and Leathals, Ancient with the once per game +1 attack. Ancient Provides extra OC as well so If you battleshock them through a strat (Like +1 str and hit) the unit will still have OC (except this is while Ancient is alive as opposed to once per game from the Chaplain).
All 7 fit in an Impulsor as well.
If you run both characters in a full BGV unit, that’s 8 models though?
I think it’s about matching up with your “main” damage. I.e. terminators match up with sang guard and BGV match with DCwJP. You need a mix of s10 and s7
That BGV damage vs high toughness was surprising to me. I think I lean towards BGV for the simple reason that you’re putting the pressure on your opponent to make sure their positioning is perfect to avoid being within charge distance turn 2 - compared to terms where the pressure is on you to make that teleport position right.
Interesting video. Does it have to be one or the other? My thought is if you have the jump units as the hammer, I'd like a blob of Terminators as the anvil. I'm not sure if what I want to do is possible yet as it's only loose in my mind. I have 2 Ballistus Dreads - it will be 3 at some point - and I have the FOMO box. I'm subscribed to Combat Patrol and I have the Leviathan Set. So I have 5 Terminators and another 5 coming at some point. I'll probably get the BA Combat Patrol as well and that would probably include Dante because once you have the Sanguinary Guard, why not. I'm thinking of going 3 Ballistus Dreads plus Terminators - 5 or 10 I don't know yet - plus whatever jump units and maybe Infiltrators - if I feel I need to protect my home objective - to full out the rest of the points.
I prefer my terminators with a librarian boy makes them hit hard af
I have yet to try this.
@@sludgedisciple Total Shooting Damage per Turn:
12.16 (with Sustained Hits)
• Total Melee Damage per Turn:
30.57 (with Sustained Hits and
Liberator Assault Group rule) this is in a vacume without addin in any stratagems or oath
Against Angron's high toughness and invulnerable save, the unit is capable of dealing around 4.33 damage per turn in the shooting phase and around 19.88 damage per turn in the melee phase.
Keep in mind, the invulnerable save may reduce this further.
I played it a couple of times in a 10 man where I think the unit really shines with the libby. With the Libby depending on the situation you have access to whatever you need. With speed of the primarch added this is a serious rapid ingeress into heroic intervention threat against your enemy big hitter. Tried it with both assault termi LC and normal termies
Lance actually can be useful if opponent's unit has -1 to wound (bodyguard ability)
I prefer bladeguard because I get a dopamine hit whenever I scout-move a transport, then unload it, then load it with shock troops turn 1 and move it into position
How are you moving the transport sorry?
Slap an incursor into the Impulsor, the impulsor scout moves 6 inch
Turn 1, offload incursors, onload BGV, moves wherever it needs to
Turn 2, offload and charge
Is it practical? No, not at all
But it makes me feel like I have at least 1 wrinkle in my brain lol
@@CComrade for the impulsor to gain scout you need ALL model inside ton have scout (it's explicitely said in the rules), so sadly it's not legal
@@Basmhor The bladeguard aren't in at the start, only the scoutmoving incursors
@@CComrade Ow my bad then, I didn't understand it well ;)
A very good breakdown. The only question that remains is does the 33% Impulsor tax get written off by Oath being free for other units. As the Bladeguard are very self-sufficient, and freeing up Oath to allow it to boost other units for an 2-4 turns (as neither bladeguard or terms are using it turn 1) has the potential to write-off the Impulsor and then some, if it enables multiple turns of 10%+ extra efficiency from a different unit
If you divide by the points cost of the unit (possibly including transports) you automatically get a more apples to apples comparison. If you don't like the small numbers you will get, you can just multiply all of them by 100. This is basically what Auspex does.
I prefer real game examples to be fair.
I have both in my list . I put the Terminator Chaplain with Terminators and Captain with Relic shield. I also put the Relic Shield on Terminator Chaplain. Both are very good,but I do think the Blade Guard in the Impulsor may have a slight lead.
Hey so I watched your old video about chaplain and librarian in termie armour and decided to buy the librarian for my termie squad. Is he still viable even after the changes do you think?
It’s still a great pick offensively. Just for fight first the chaplain edges it!
It depends on what you are going for/prefer. The Term Libby will give you more overall damage on an Oath target. But when you are being charged you may not have Oath on that target, so you get less benefit when you are on defense. The Term Chappy's +1 to wound is useful for both defense and offense. You can pop the +1 to wound strat on the lIbby Term unit if you have the CP, but in the same situation the Term Chappy Unit can pop the +1 attack strat instead.
The added fnp against mortals generally makes the chaplain the overall winner for myself personally, but they are both just really good. The new balance patch is coming out soon, so a few things may change.
I am really excited to see which is better
Taking both to a Super GT this weekend, will see how they go in 5 rounds of sweaty fun! 😀
The two units are:
6 BGV with a Judiciar to bully the midboard and heroic for scary counter punches.
5 Terminators with a Term Chaplain for +1 to wound and 4+++ vs devs and mortals, to help them bring down tougher targets (saving Red Rampage CP for other units) and make them resilient against nasty mortals.
Why choose take both
Terminators with Chaplin & BGV with a Judicar (needs Red Rampage but it still Fights First) and you get both great options
Something i think is interesting,
The stormbolters from the terminators and chaplain far exceed the BGV in taking out chaff and clearing t3 units.
And theres potential to bait the enemy to try and block the teleport homer if its in a tricky spot
I use one squad of each, TBH. The Blade guard go on a relatively fixed trajectory, and the terminators typically rapid ingress on a weak flank and hold it themselves.
Credit due to GW for really balancing these units. I’m currently running the Termie squad and I am really happy with it. I am really considering running a BGV squad over the DC Brick and moving the FF to that Chaplain.
So, let's say we put the usual Dante+SG and Lem+DC in deep strike. Then we have our Captain in Impulsor, our regular jump packs/outriders to go forwards quickly.
Would a foot slogging BGV unit be a bad idea? Thus removing the need for an Impulsor?
Good vid, but I think you got some of your terminology wrong. Is the Impulsor really a tax, or are the BG an opportunity to take the Impulsor?
I mean, it’s potentially both right?
@ba_commander half full, half empty?😁
I think both are viable, the biggest factor is play style. When I build my list, every unit has a role. If I’m taking terminators, I take assault with the shield for the additional wound because I want a brick of a unit.
To me, Blade guard aren’t much different than DC in that they’re fairly glass cannnony. Yes they are a little more survivable, but they aren’t the hardest thing to kill, do they’re a trading unit.
Enjoyed the video! Did have a quick question. Was considering an alt build, where BGV is being led by Judiciar and the 6 man Sanguinary Guard is being led by Captain w/ Jump Pack w/ Speed of the Primarch. What is your take on this? It feels far more threatening to the opponent in regards to charge risks, but am curious how the numbers stack up.
I think the + 1 to wound when charged is game changing I think. I could figure this out in a future video!
I'm thinking of running both, using oath for termies and playing bgv a bit oath agnostic
In the survivability section, what did the numbers actually represent?? For example, the Chaplain has 4 Toughness, 3+ save, 4++ invuln, and 4 wounds, but what about the rest of the row? Is that percent chance to survive?? Wounds taken?? Clearly the higher number means it’s more survivable, I’m just a little confused on that. Otherwise great video as ever John
It's how many successful wound rolls are needed to kill the unit. I factor out BS of the attacker cause it's inconsistent.
@@ba_commanderbrilliant, thanks
i wan't to thank you for these instruction for a newby ( just 2 months in starting) just played 3 games to learn the basics
It is a post Thanksgiving Miracle!! 😅😅
I think you could run either or, I've built lists with either as sometimes I need that 80pts impulsor elsewhere. Haven't ran the terms yet but will give them a try, as you found out the other day getting a squad of BGV doom bolted sucks so a 4+++ would be useful. I really like the BGV as I find they are abit more flexible but depending on the rest of the list that 20 S10 PF can replace alot of the vehicle hitting melee we lost from DC and they are alot more survivable.
Although I’m running the blade guard consistently this video has made me want to try the chaplain led terminators more :)
@ba_commander now if only assualt terms got the deathwatch TH profile
What's your opinion if they ever fix Apothecary Units and Bladeguard Veterans?
I doubt they’ll change anything till next edition.
In a previous video you showed that the librarian was the best leader for terminators because of the sustained hits. (Which applies to fists aswell)
Yes offensively. The chaplain is likely better if you are charged though and you fight first.
Posting my updated list in last weeks army list show, spoiler alert, it pertains to this video 😂😂 and its been putting the hurt on ppl.
Two things to look at: BGV compared to (1) A terminator squad led by a librarian. Exploding 6s in booth shooting and melee against oath targets is no joke and (2) twin-lightning claw terminators led by a chaplain: against an oath of moment target is re-roll all hits and wounds. Tasty, very tasty. Max damage is less, but way, way more reliable due to re-rolls to wound.
@@jaanoseesti I just don’t think lightning claws have enough attacks to be meaningful these days.
@@ba_commander 6 attacks on the charge... probably needs to be 7, but 30 attacks will full re-rolls to hit and wounds against an oath target is very reliable. On another note, Captain + Ancient is also tasty - as you point out, terminators are more survivable, so on the swing-back they lose a few then fight harder and harder after that :)
@ sure but your comparing 35 damage to 72 damage. Even with rerolls I don’t think it compares? Thinking about this more maybe it’s worth taking a look at.
@@ba_commander The max damage is definitely lower, and you'd have to be very careful about what you charge them into, but full re-rolls to hit and wound is fairly rare for melee units, so the reliability in terms of the difference between max/min damage is very likely going to be less. Also, thanks for all your videos, they are super informative :D
I might be the only one doing it but I play a squad of 10 assault terminators with claws and chaplain and fight first. It tears everything apart - everything! A very very sharp swiss knife..
You might be, I kinda dislike the 1 damage.
@@ba_commander true. But it helps me a lot against all the damage reduction, aeldari, custodes,..
Anyway love your vids, know how much effort doing youtube is. Highly appreciated! 🎉🎉🎉
I have played both in multiple games against World Eaters. And honestly, the Bladeguard typically kill whatever they hit if they get the charge off. Unfortunately I made a bad choice with the terminators and ended up in combat with a mauler fiend. The termies are tanky, for sure. But the second round of combat I failed a lot of my invuls so the mauler fiend chewed them up. Honestly, Impulsor or not I am contemplating a second unit of Bladeguard maybe with a Judiciar.
Same Mathe but Instant the Termi chap with Termi lib pls? :)
I did a video in the librarian in a few weeks ago, he’ll do more damage offensively especially if used red rampage. Search blood angels commander terminators you’ll probably find the video.
@@ba_commander Thank you
New to blood angels but from what I can gather there should be another unit for comparison against the blade guard in particular. The amount of points a Captain w/rage + Lieutenant w/speed + 5 assault intercessors + impulsor is LESS than bladeguard + chaplain w/speed + impulsor and has an insane amount of potential damage. Maybe something to think about?
I don’t think fight first with S4 or 1ap is particularly exciting. The rage captain with a unit is another choice for sure. I have a video made for that on the tactics playlist.
I wonder what the math is on a 6man bgv with a LT + bg ancient. You get lethals and the once pergame +1 attacks 🤔
I think it’s likely worst than the chaplain against those high toughness enemies!
In true primaris fashon, the shoot only terminators have a completely op Melee profile.
They are the Stop gap model untill Assault Terminators get upscaled then they will nerf chain fists
Bgv are great in melee and bring a lot of their own power buffs. Termies should be led by a librarian(lethals in shooting matters). And should be the target for oath and for RR.
They tend to be my SG that get RR! But for sure it’s good!
@@ba_commander also a good target! I just often feel when I'm constructing that I'm focusing too hard on "this one won't need RR"
Would you take a Chaplain + 3 BG in a 1000 pts list?
Yeah why not :)
@ :)). I eventually landed on this list for 1000 pts games.
Commander Dante (130pts): Warlord
5x Intercessor Squad (80pts)
5x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (90pts)
5x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (90pts)
5x Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs (90pts)
6x Sanguinary Guard (260pts)
3x Sanguinary Guard (130pts)
Ballistus Dreadnought (130pts)
The Chaplain version would swap out the Intercessors and one JPI for the Chaplain + 3x BG.
Terminator Librarian ftw ;P
Sustained Hits 1 on every weapon just feels fun ^^
He's great for offense!
I see termin as a other side of the coin
If you need more killy stuff -BG
If you lack survivability- Termis
I advanced and charged Dante and 6 sang guard into BG vets with fights first Chappie. I took two wounds, then left the squad with 1 model and the character. I like Flame aggressors and fights first on a Captain with them.
Im convinced str 7 is the perfect str when you have +1 to wound.
Haven’t seen the video yet but I hope to god BGV are the better option. I just finished painting a squad.
I think the chaplain may not always be worth it on the terminators, S10 is fine on the charge against a lot of targets. It's a bigger deal for the bladeguard. You can get 10 terminators (probably 2x5) for 5 fewer points than the Bladeguard, chaplain, impulsor combo.
Why normal Terminators and not Assault Terminators?
Assault terminators aren’t that great imo.
You pretty much have to attach an Ancient, and pray one of your terminators die so you can get the +1 to hit buff before they are good. Imagine getting hit by a suppressor unit, well now they hit on 5+. A 75 point unit basically turns your Assault terms into a punching bag. With the Ancient you will at least hit on 4's again eventually. While regular Terms hit on a 2+ into an oath Target for both melee and shooting, and has a choice of multiple Leader units.
What they need to do is make it so their hit roll is un-modifiable so they always hit on a 4+, never less. Doesn't mean I wouldn't take them in a for fun game, but I'd have an Ancient and a Captain attached to make some crazy 12 man blob.
Terminators have the Rule "Fury of the First". I think you have forgotton this. Terminators get +1 to hit on the oath target, shooting and melee.
@@thomasmuller5113 no I included it.
@@ba_commanderOh ok, sorry
BG+CAPTAIN with RWG+ LIET with SoTP
Assault Terminators deep strike. Three have hammers two have claws. Thats all.
I don’t think the hammers are very reliable this edition. No weight of attacks and medium strength.
10 man terminator squad for me 😅😅
After the day of getting charged or charging T9 10 12, Terminators all the way
Plot twist: take neither of them and have a better list for it
I like the Bladeguard, have a 83% win rate with them since the codex released.
@ I used them all the time in index but have not so far in the codex.
I got like number 69. Awesome lol
Why five Terminators and not ten?
I personally like MSU but if you like 10 terms go for it!
@ I figured they go good with my Vanguard Vets, JPI and my Assault interceptor’s.
i know the chaplain is definitely better but judiciar with gift of foresight is too fun
My personal favorite as well!
Terminators are the better option
Bladeguard Veterans are just not Blood angel worthy, one of them have a shield! hehe
Hey do have shields! Have you tried painting them gold?
@@ba_commander That is a decent idea!.
20 minutes or so?
Sometimes videos run over I try to keep them short
You're getting rather popular, lets get a high quality mic?... is it time yet? Lol it would be much more pleasent to listen to, for whatever thats worth.
I do have a good mic I guess I probably just need to figure out how to use it in OBS properly. I’ll see if I can get some better settings for my pre-recorded videos appreciate the feedback.
The answer is: 10 terminators 😂
Quick army list based on this and other videos, see what you think- tearers big hitters (1990 points)
Space Marines
Blood Angels
Strike Force (2000 points)
Liberator Assault Group
CHARACTERS
Blood Angels Captain (90 points)
• 1x Inferno pistol
1x Power fist
• Enhancement: Rage-fuelled Warrior
Chaplain (85 points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x Crozius arcanum
• Enhancement: Speed of the Primarch
Chaplain in Terminator Armour (75 points)
• 1x Crozius arcanum
1x Storm bolter
Commander Dante (130 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Perdition Pistol
1x The Axe Mortalis
Lemartes (110 points)
• 1x Absolvor bolt pistol
1x The Blood Crozius
BATTLELINE
Assault Intercessor Squad (75 points)
• 1x Assault Intercessor Sergeant
• 1x Plasma pistol
1x Power fist
• 4x Assault Intercessor
• 4x Astartes chainsword
4x Heavy bolt pistol
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Impulsor (80 points)
• 1x Armoured hull
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Shield Dome
2x Storm bolter
Impulsor (80 points)
• 1x Armoured hull
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Shield Dome
2x Storm bolter
OTHER DATASHEETS
Ballistus Dreadnought (130 points)
• 1x Armoured feet
1x Ballistus lascannon
1x Ballistus missile launcher
1x Twin storm bolter
Ballistus Dreadnought (130 points)
• 1x Armoured feet
1x Ballistus lascannon
1x Ballistus missile launcher
1x Twin storm bolter
Bladeguard Veteran Squad (180 points)
• 1x Bladeguard Veteran Sergeant
• 1x Master-crafted power weapon
1x Plasma pistol
• 5x Bladeguard Veteran
• 5x Heavy bolt pistol
5x Master-crafted power weapon
Death Company Marines with Jump Packs (240 points)
• 10x Death Company Marine with Jump Packs
• 5x Astartes chainsword
2x Eviscerator
6x Heavy bolt pistol
2x Inferno pistol
2x Plasma pistol
3x Power fist
Outrider Squad (80 points)
• 1x Outrider Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Heavy bolt pistol
1x Twin bolt rifle
• 2x Outrider
• 2x Astartes chainsword
2x Heavy bolt pistol
2x Twin bolt rifle
Sanguinary Guard (270 points)
• 6x Sanguinary Guard
• 4x Angelus boltgun
6x Encarmine blade
2x Inferno pistol
1x Sanguinary Banner
Scout Squad (65 points)
• 1x Scout Sergeant
• 1x Astartes chainsword
1x Bolt pistol
1x Close combat weapon
• 4x Scout
• 4x Bolt pistol
4x Close combat weapon
3x Combat knife
1x Heavy bolter
Terminator Squad (170 points)
• 1x Terminator Sergeant
• 1x Power fist
1x Storm bolter
• 4x Terminator
• 1x Cyclone missile launcher
4x Power fist
4x Storm bolter
Not as much fire support as I may like, just the 2 ballistus, sacrificed one for the action monkeys (outriders and scouts) . Capt with assault intercessors in an impulsor, bladeguard with fight first chaplain in the other. Termies to ingress near the center objective with chaplain, armour of contempt as needed. Death company and sanguinary guard to do their thing. Can have death company, assault intercessors, sang guard and bladeguard act freely without oath of moment, ballistus and termies to take out oathed target each turn
Drop lemartes. Might as well take a regular chaplain for the plus 1 to wound, unless you like wounding with 6s on your chainswords. Also his def waive buff is pointless. -1 damage. Big deal if you’re facing D6+1 damage.
Drop the Ballistus X2,BG and termies as well all chaff units
@@Chasemcloud5745 mate.....
Who's shooting d6+1 damage into 2 wound marines? An absolute waste of fire power, and anything 1d6+1 is going to have few shots, so youll take minimum loses. And if that's being shot at your marines, you've already lost.
And why drop the dreads and chaff? BAC has clearly sang their praise as great back line anti tank and support that forces your opponent to close, and their S9 feet on a charge supports nearby infiltrators holding rear objective.
And marines need chaff. You need things to hold objectives and move around. Outriders and scouts are both mandatory for scoring.
Have you actually even played a game before?? Doesn't sound like it
@ I play two times a week. Your first point I was referring to lemartes and how his damage reduction buff is pointless. Dreads are chaff as full melee is best for LAG
On the show tonight!
Awesome video as alwayz brother you rock ty 🩸🤘🏻hope all is well my man !