What They Don't Tell You About a Herniated or Bulging Disc.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ธ.ค. 2016
- "Famous" Physical Therapists Bob Schrupp & Brad Heineck discuss information you should know if you have a herniated disc or even a bulging disc.
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I had a herniated disc L3L4 and never took pain medication. I endured the pain for 3 months with spasms on and off. Exactly 3 months and I'm feeling good. Eat well, exercise every morning and Chiropractic treatments. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I had herniated discs between L4 and L5, and L5 and S1. One doctor wanted to do surgery, but thankfully, I found another who sent me to physical therapy. I now love physical therapists because they saved me from having back surgery!! Keep up the great work!!
Its only temporary once your core muscles weaken and you gain weight it will all come back to bite you 😢 at least thats what happend to me lol
@@johnnyrodriguez276 yup im 27 and the back pain was bearly manageble after my mri then my stupid ass lifted a 20lb dish washer and now im suffering from severe sciatica and am using a walker 😅
How big was your disc
@@Finestizpro omg
@@Finestizpro My lower back hurts like and these PT say I don't need surgery I can barely live with this pain, how many mm big was the herniated disc in mri
I have become so much efficient in spinal anatomy by regularly watching your informative videos :-)
Bulging & herniated is differant.
(MRI done here..) Been in pain for a very long time. Pain is pain..And NO, Drs do not explain!
Tks for sharing ~ 🙏
Thank you as always you two and Happy New Year to you both, may you both be blessed with excellent health, love and happiness in all you do!
I always learn something with each of your videos. Thank you for the information.
This was informative for people who do not have a clue. But for people that know what's going on we want to know how to rid of herniated disc permanently
This is so helpful thanks for all this information
Great information, thank you!!
You two are amazing!! You do such a great job explaining how a disk bulge works !! 👍🙂
Have had pain for years started looking up stuff to try and to get some relief. Have people making fun of me all the time. Thanks to you and finally finding a physical therapy place that would help me I can move better. I was having to wear a brace alot now I don't. I have another problem I'm dealing with now I have hurt my shoulder and it is really giving me problems. Been watching your videos on that too. It's getting better thanks for trying to help people who just can't maybe get the right help. Thanks
very good info. thank you very much!
Fantastic vid guys. Many of my clients come to me with their back pain. often tight QL, Often live in a pelvic tilt, but this explanation of bulging seems to be the missing link to dealing with their pain. I focus a lot of Pelvic mobility, Posture setting and scapula recraction/Thoracic extension with clients. when i send them this video, they will now understand why.
Thanks guys, keep up the great work.
Derek A. Knight
Excellent. I thought I knew all about my back problem but this video explained it in more detail how exactly the disc bulge slowly develops through the layers. Thank you!
Happy new year!
Good informative video's thanks guys.
great and very informative video
So thankful for you guys.
Thanks so much for your information
Bob and Brad, thank you so much for teaching us what a bulging and herniated disk is . Also how to care if you have a bulging dis or herniated disk. Your video on staying healthy and fit are great to watch !! 🙂
This was a great video! Thanks!
Excellent!! Thanks guys that was very informative, love watching all your videos...
That was very helpful. My L5 has been screaming for months
Thank you for your videos
Thanks for helping us learn, I have always had chronic lower back pain...I'm 64 and have already shrunk, but I'm experiencing what your teaching.
Absolute informative video! Many thanks and greetings from Germany.
***** Oh great. I hope you have interest for history and archtecture. There is a ton of those subjects in this old country. Especially the south part, you would see castles as you drive around. There is so much to see, feel, read and enjoy...i.e many different tbrews of traditional beers. bye bye for now.
you guys are the best!
A herniated disc and a bulging disc are two different things, its very confusing that the medical profession use them interchangeably. They should stop that.
Well I thought this was the best video / information session Ive had. Ive just had the MRI and tick the box for all of the above . Ive had pain for many years which has intensified recently!!!!
Ive been a bus driver for 10 years and end a 10 hour shift walking around like John Wayne!
Terrific explanation.
Keep up the good work.
Hey Bob and Brad! Could you guys do a video on Back Mice or Episacroilliac Lipoma? Thank you so much for all the videos!
Bob and Brad thank you so much for this. I'm on a 9 week journey so far and was just informed my bulge was a herniated disc L5 S1 I was crushed by this news today. I have a follow up appointment and I'm going to push for physical therapy to get me back to the gym and hopefully a normal life. It's when these events happen out of nowhere that I question every previous movement as "the one" but have no luck finding such. Thanks for the prep talk it was much needed after the news today. Thank you both John
CJ how are you doing today? I was just given this news today L4-S1 herniated with excrusion
@Ferris Bueller was a nerd back to normal for the most part, took a good 6 months to slowly heal, I still have some usual stiffness that an advil will take care of. I just try to manage my movements and try to not expose my lower back to anything stupid, having said that I just moved and was carrying boxes and other items and came away with no concerns. What helped me was walking and staying active using the press ups was a life saver on those bad days, stay positive and don'y quit on yourself it will take time but each day is better than the previous!
I have the same thing, it’s been almost 5 months and I still can’t get rid of the pain, how are u now and can u give me any tips please
@@mohamedanouar9363 work on press ups which B&B show on the channel they saved me. Motion is lotion, I run everyday and I try to even grab a high bar and just decompress my spine. There are still things I do not do, I do not bend over that has not changed. Keep your head up be positive!
@@LooknJB interesting, I thought that running is not good for us but I will try it, did it help u to get better? and does the pain go away eventually? thank you
Just exactly as I suspected was the case. 26 years trucking, 15 of those years as a tank hauler, (heavy lifting from the ground and up over the shoulder. I was in chiropractic care monthly for 20 years. And now this. Thank you for affirming what I believed to be true.
U guys r great.thank u
The human body is designed for 35 years. The disc probably for 25-30. The lever action of a force acting at a distance is distance x load. So bending exerts huge forces on the disc.
Thanks for the information on the herniated (protruding) discs. I have three of them with constant pain down my left leg and numbness on my left foot. My neurologist insists that I see a neurosurgeon for surgery on my back. The more I see your videos, I will first try to correct my problem with watching what you post instead of going the surgery route. This is great information. I only wish that my neurologist would have demonstrated my protruding discs like the two of you did. Great job! Looking forward to watching more of your videos!!
How is it now
What did you do
Any updates?
Thanks for this one. I have two squashed discs between L3 and L5. Had an MRI to confirm. I find that yoga, good posture, and stretching helps to alleviate low back pain when it flares up. I also go for osteopathy and massage semi-regularly to help keep things limber and aligned. I also have a worn disk in my thoracic upper back, at the bend, from all the slouching. Also alleviated by yoga and posture correction and using the basic Alexander Technique of lying on the floor with knees bent and head supported. Just lying in a neutral position for 10 or 20 minutes can help decompress the discs a wee bit and give some relief.
I find that sitting down alleviates my low back because I have a sway back. Trying to correct that with strengthening the core and stretching the low back and hip flexors (soas) to get more balance between the muscles front and back.
Hi guys....your videos are so useful. Do chiropractors really help to push the discs back in place?
Love you guys
Getting old sucks… but it beats the heck out of the alternative!
Thank you for this video. I have a disc herniation. It pressed against the nerve and this caused so much pain i was not able to get out of bed. The doctors are treating it with strong painkillers and physio. I love your videos they help me understand what i have.
ice
Best intro ever! 😂👏👏
As always best of the best guys !!! Glad to discover your Chanel! I have a herniated disc at that is popingto the right side and when I go running or playing soccer makes my right leg muscle rectus femoris and thigh very tight! If I push for too long I feel it gonna cause me a pulled muscle. I'm 33 and I pay the price from weightlifting for years and from some overuse due to deadlifts. :( is there any solution? I do a lot of stretching but my right leg muscles feel stiff all time, especially when I do some sports. Can a chiropractor help?
Great info guys. A lot of help for my sciatica and lower back pain. Question... I feel great when I use invertion tables. Do you think they really are good for your back? Or could they cause problems?
any updates?
Gentlemen I love your videos
I have a protruding L4/5 , spinal stenosis and degenerative disc disease
Any videos on correct exercises and what to do when in pain would be much appreciated... haven’t found anyone like you in Cayman or London and am in pain with sciatica on laying flat
Best
Dr Sonia K
Just Google Bob and Brad Spinal stenosis. I wish you well
Great info ! But what if the herniation is actually the culprit or causing the pain ? ! !
Thank you for all this info!!! I sure do appreciate it. I have 3 herniated discs & sacraliliitis. I dont want pain pills. I use lots of Bio-freeze. Can you do a talk on Sacroiliitis? thank you.
CBD
McKenzie extension or flexion exercises are great for anyone trying to self treat themselves.
Hello guys. Thanks for the knowlegde but may I please ask you guys a question.
How do I know if my herniated disc injury is getting better or its on the right path of recovery? Would be great if you guys could respond to this comment or perhaps make a video about it :)
I second that request! Haven't found any vids out there addressing a burning question for many of us I'm sure. Would make a great follow up to this excellent session, thanks docs!
You can use crutches to still get upper body workout. Use heat during sleep and then use ice if you feel a spasm coming on.
Move to a recliner if you feel spasms.
I am doing great! Foam block with pillows on top,edge of bed,lay over,let legs hang down. Exercise band,hooked to wall,about 4 feet high. Get in and position band to lower waist,lean forward. Cocked vertebrae? Turn in band to one side,lean out.
Thank you Bob & Brad.. I just find out i have bulging disc.. C5-C6-C7 doctor told me i should have surgery, but am scared... Discover this video make me change my mind, i will continue doing therapy cause now i believe i can treat myself. 2 months ago the pain on my shoulder was very bad now still feeling pain but not much. I heard after the surgery death/handicaps/lose lots of bloods gonna happen.. 😨
Birth my grown kids had to have the cervical surgery within 2 yrs of each other and one of my nieces the same surgery. My daughter interview 2 surgeons and the one she chose had done over 2000 if the cervical surgeries, so my other child used the same dr. All 3 of them had instant relief.
My Dr. Told me this right away. Good info but I thought you were actually going to talk about a very efficient treatment to ease the pain or something.
Are there any precautions I should take, being I have spurs on my low to mid back?
I have gone to PT in the past as well as a Chiropractor, but now that I know I have spurs could those spurs
break off with an adjustment from the Chiropractor, or any type of exercise I would be doing. Thanks so much for your
info., you are very informative. Also Brad, your daughter is really a beautiful girl, you kept up with her quite well, when you had her on video with you and Bob.
Bob and braaad, boopity boop. Love the song
Haha that quote is going to All my contacts !!
What to do with when the bulge...migration through the layers? "and it doesn't go and make a big bulge right away" - Having done all the wrong things over the years, and the above happens. Please do a video on what/why the pain eventually goes away. Also would the bulging disc cause further problems in the future? Thank you for all this information - wish it was taught in schools - this is so important for pain free daily living!
this video was sent to me from heaven !!! I couldn't sleep this night thinking about my disc issue, Thank you so much, my condition at the earliest stage with little buldge and no symptoms, how often should I do the reversing exercises and are aerobic exercises such as jump rope are OK to do ? Best wishes :)
camus585 g
Question: Would a pose like the one I saw on yoga, both legs up against the wall, would that make things worse for a bulging disc condition? Thank you in advance.
one of the best videos you have made....if thats a case..then why some people have no pain when their images show problems? is there any assumption
It's my understanding that there isn't any pain unless the nerves of the spine are actually being touched by, or pressure applied by, the bulging disc or disc fluid in the case of a herniation. The discs themselves aren't wired-up with nerves inside them, so disc injury alone doesn't necessarily produce pain.
physicaltherapyvideo My facet joints enlarged and impinged the spinal nerve roots. The most excruciating pain I ever had. Had several levels facetectomies to release the nerve roots. Aah relief.
Do you have video about ces? “Horse tail” thing?
Could you address herniated disc in the neck. We were in a head on collision and my husband is suffering with this. I just searched and found one.
I commented on one of your other videos. but I got diagnosed with. bulging disc. or disc protrusion on l4 l5 and was wondering if with physical therapy and proper stretches, does it heal and how long will it take before I can play basketball and run actively without worry.
What is your status bro
Hey bob and brad. I'm not sure if you answer comments but if you could that would be very helpful. I am 15 and have pretty bad posture. I recently came off an injury and as I have started deadlifting again, I am starting to get that bulging feeling. Every coach and physical therapist I have had has said my form was perfect so I was wondering if it is possible that even with good form, just the little extra weight that my lower back has had to deal with while deadlifting aggravated years of slouching?
Thanks.
So would you recommend a cushioned back arch support as a precaution for everyone who drives or sits at a desk for most of the day? Or is that only necessary once symptoms appear?
Hi!! these are standard standards for painful herniated discs. Great ones. I don't have pain anymore (I went through the acute painful phase, which lasted for 8 weeks: my L5 DISC has actually burst, it is now very thin). I do these exercises and others at home every day :I don't have pain now, these are great and standard exercises. However, on the internet I never find videos about exercises that will help you improve your lower back strength: something specific for people who have bulging or broken discs. As far as I know one has to improve the muscles to protect those vertebrae that don't have anymore a functioning disc. The exercises you are showing here are good in the first phase (feeling less pain), I WOULD LOVE TO SEE SOME strength exercises specific for lumbar herniated discs. Thank you!
Where was your pain? Are you just coming out of the acute phase?
well, I began with having pain (like a very sharp pain in my lower back) when walking for more than 25 minutes around 13 months ago..then that became a sciatica pain (less pain in the back but tinkling of the right leg and moderate pain of the right foot at night) then around 2 months ago I had a very acute phase with mild pain during the day (still tinkling leg) but lots of pain at night that would wake me up and prevent me from sleeping... that lasted for a week, then some painkillers improved the situation. I did xrays and then they saw something wrong and I did MRI : L5 disc burst and very flat. NOW THE PAIN is mostly gone but it may also be because I limit my range of movement a lot and do very religiously some exercises that a therapist gave me (some are exactly like yours). I will see a spinal surgeon soon. Unfortunately my lower back lacks lordosis (it is a problem that runs in the family) and so gravity is worse for me than for most other people. So basically, at the moment a rarely experience pain and after I see the surgeon , if he says to go for a conservative therapy, I will probably have to invest quite a lot of money to see a good physiotherapist. However, L5 disc is really flattened and the liquid from the nucleus broke at the back of the disc.
Yes
Any help with tarlov cyst pain relief? Horrible pain, can`t sit the proper way. On pain medicine, but I don`t want to take medicine forever.
Hi and Happy New Year!
I was diagnosed with a herniated disc. Thr back pain went away due to treatment and exercise but the sciatica is a killer in the morning. It dissapears durring the day if I walk.
My question is why is the sciatica so damn bad in the morning that wakes me up?
Have a great year!
ICE!! keep at bedside
I healed by following ur techniques from a L5S1 8mm herniation... By doing Mckenzie and icing and heat etc.... It took 4 mos but now I have a upper Chest Cold and I was coughing a lot and now my leg hurts alittle with sciatic pain.... Can u do a Show on proper technique of coughing and or sneezing.. Because I have also pulled a upper back muscle... Thank YOU
Thank you! Now we have a recovery time stated: It took four months of specific, dedicated exercises and care to improve. Myself, I'm at 9 months of PT care for my C3, C4, C5, L3, L4, & L5 discs, with more time ahead on my own.
Please answer me
I have 2 mainor bulgh lower back.my pt told me that bulgarian squat.only body its safe for me.
Your opinion please
So... I asked for anything you had on collapsed disc. Are they the same thing? Should I do these exercises?
I heard that herniated or bulging disk can lead to a stroke or infection entering the spinal canal and the meninges. Is this true? Can it affect intracranial blood pressure in anyway?
I have a diffuse bulging disk & when i do backextenson exercise it become more tight&pen so what i do please answer me
I could'nt agree more. There was a study done: they took pictures of the columna vertebrae of 100 healthy people without any backpain. And alot of the pictures showed different patology like herniated discs, degenerate changes etc. The important knowledge acquired tells us exactly what you guys are saying. Findings in MRI's etc dont have to represent the issue of LBP.
but what do you do with that information ?
@@JJ-vp3bd hmm, well it's an important factor to take into account. An example could be a person without any pain that gets imagery of their back taken that shows a herniated disc. Depending on that person, fear-avoidance could occur. The person might be scared because there is something "abnormal" with their body which could lead to them avoiding physical activities or any other daily life activity(because they are scared of hurting their back). So the outcome could easily be reduced quality of life. That's why it's important for the health professional to inform the patient about the findings & its meanings. The human body needs a variety of physical activities to stay healthy (those with pain/illnesses as well(of course depending on the issue)). And if you are someone having pain, then you and your health professional should find a solution together. And as Bob & Brad says: the herniated disc on the MRI might not be related to your pain in the first place. That's why a good patient-therapist alliance is important; informing, educating, and working together towards a common goal.
What if L-4 and L-5 are gone from osteoarthritis?
Hey guys I noticed you answer your viewers questions and that's great most ppl don't, so I have bone on bone at the L 4-5 and three bulged disc in the neck and arthritis, I have horrible headaches, what can I do for pain relief in my lower back and in my neck and to stop the headaches, I have seen Chiropractors because they are cheaper than a DR. but they are no longer able to help with my pain, Thanks
Hey guys I appreciate the links, and that you took the time to answer my Post, Thank You very much.
im only 16, ive had a herniated disc for 5 months. What do you recommend? I've done extensions for so long and it doesn't seem to get substantially better
How are you now ?
Hi
I want to know how long a L4 & L5 disc bluge takes to heal. I am having a disc bluge problem from past three months.
@Brian K.R. did you get a MRI
Thumbs up !
Sitting disease is a big problem now because of technology. This is one of the results of it so we have to remember to add fitness to our lives more than ever, especially these days!
"I bought a new bike not too long ago that had me pedaling around sitting down, everywhere I go. My lower back started bothering me and I knew it was the sitting around but attributed it to the lifting of my dumbbell. But, little did I know that I should've started immediately using my inversion table to reverse the potential culprit of the really mild discomfort, and that I also should've somehow learned to prone-out whenever possible. I spoke to my PCP and other doctors about it, the lower back discomfort, but they didn't say or recommend anything, let alone get down to business and figure out what was going on. So, I ended up learning the hard way, and just bulged my L4/L5 disc, seriously, (after I was encroached on, by my stalkers, with someone to lift into a wheelchair). Now I'm inverting twice daily on a table, supplementing, and am not expecting to be able to sit on my ass for at least another 8 months or ever again..."
any updates?
@@JJ-vp3bd "yes, it's not my L4/L5 and turned out to be my L3/L4, as it's the top of my left thigh where the 'radiculopathy' radiates to..."
@@codymiller510 what you do now?
Jesus. I had a huge bulge on my left side. The emergency room doc just x rayed me and said it was a muscle spasm. I've had this ongoing lower back pain for 4 months. With recurring spasms that lasted 4 weeks at a time
If I have tingling on my thighs after sciatica. Is it herniated disk?
I am 31 and I have a protrusion in my L5 and S1
Hi Bob & Brad.....went to have a procedure where they attempt to stop nerve pain in back. However when they attempted to put side needle in, I experienced severe pain. They had tried to go thru muscle & tissue to reach the spine. PROBLEM was a muscle was super tight & atrophied due to long term problems. QUESTION IS?....are there some exercises we can do to relax the muscles on either side of the lumbar spine?? They gave me Valium in hopes of relaxing that muscle that day of treatment. IS there something I can do in the meantime? Hot compresses? Cold compresses? Some kind of stretching? Tried to have someone massage it but it made it stiffer. HELP! Any ideas for loosening this darn thing up?? Thanks! Luv your vids!
You can use crutches to still get upper body workout. Use heat during sleep and then use ice if you feel a spasm coming on.
Move to a recliner if you feel spasms.
I have a 3mm bulge disc between c6 and 7 and suffer from lots of pain on my shoulder blade . I had epidural shots and didn't work. should I consider surgery . I've ask my Dr he says I'm too young for that kind of surgery:(
Thank you for taking the,time to answer my question 😊
did the ecercises help you?
How r u know?
Veronica i have the same problem, C5-C6-C7 my shoulder and arms is killing me, used to have muscle spasms on my back.. Now am feeling a little bit better. Doctor told me to have Surgery am so scared cause i don't wanna become and handicap or die from surgery, don't wanna loose lots of bloods. Therefore am continuing Therapy and believe I Myself can cure myself.
How it go Veronica?
Guys!! I got L4-L5 and L5-S1 bulged discs, I feel well currently but the pain appears when I skate on my skateboard, what I can do for skate again?
I have a slip and herniated disc do u recommend surgery, I have had sciatica a few times
Try some basic exercises they show and see if it helps. Surgery should be the last thing you ever do. The steroid injections in the back is risky and can cause paralysis if they hit a nerve. Everything has risks. Search their videos and see if anything helps after a few weeks or months. Exercises depending on which way it is herniated and where.
I have disc bulge/herniated/on S1...L5...L4...L3...L2...L1 + Foraminal Stenosis/ mm ...Is Therapy possible for me ?
My herniated disc L3L4 was herniated.the pain was unbelievable, couldn't toilet, couldn't lay on my back without the literal stabbing pain down my leg.seen 3 different doctors who treated me like I was med seeking,may God have mercy on their souls,the final straw was the numbness in my left leg finally leading to me falling and 95% strength loss. Woke up after surgery with zero pain, didn't need to take anything for pain until 3 days after surgery as swelling has brought some numbness back. I know what being penetrated by steel feels like as I have shrapnel in my shoulder. If it feels like your literally being stabbed by a knife in your leg, get surgery immediately
What are you supposed to do once the back pain gets centralized?
They have videos on that too or just search Mckenzie method
I hv L4-5 Bulge and L5-S1 Protrusion with excrutiating pain from buttock down to legs, numb legs and 2-5 fingers leg, 3 weeks now. drugs didn't help.
I have 2 disc bulges at thoracic area and 1 at low back. I try every day to seat properly to avoid pain.. So after years im gonna get worst ? :(
No u not gonna get worse if u start seating the right way... Ur body will need time to heal, believe on urself and don't give up on urself.
How does an MRI compare with a Myelogram in regards to most effectively identifying disc issues?
DannoCrutch. I would like to know tht answer to this also by them
Makes sense to me. Thanks!
physicaltherapyvideo. Thanks. yes makes sense. well can a buldging disk can turn into a fracture tht easy if you got osterporis? and usually when the L4 is involved and s1. How long can it take it to heal please? ive been like this 9 months and do PT but seems like than other things go wrong, which my pc doc has took again ober 2 months getting me to neurosurgeon but i thinks my best bet is getting now to a chiropractor. Thank you. god bless n happy new year you 2
Sir, so this causes human body height shorter?
I was recently diagnosed with a bulging disc in c3 area and a herniated disk in my c4-5 area. The herniated disk is 2.5 mm and touching my spine. Somedays I wake up with a headache that persists until I go to bed. By the end of the day I am nauseous from being in pain for so long. Any recommendations as to what I should avoid or things That I should do? Also, what is the best pain reliever? No one prescribes pain medication anymore, I’m having a tough time here! Thank you.
No pain meds anymore is right.I'm in excruciating pain now
Neck brace and ice
Neck traction
Kameramann Lynie didnt got the red dot sharp and he didnt got the close up
what is your opinion on spinal decompression / traction? my MRI showed to have 2 bulging discs in the lumbar. my chiropractor recommended spinal decompression. I am much worse now after the fourth session I developed tingling in my feet and pain in my buttocks to where I can't sit for long. I don't think the pain I was having prior to the decompression was related to my bulging discs as you mention in the video. I am now doing physical therapy. do you think decompression or traction can be dangerous or cause permanent problems? I recommend anyone out there that reads this to do your research on spinal decompression before considering it and especially try physical therapy first. thanks for the videos you guys make!
What about decompressing by hanging from something? Does that work to reduce stress?
Love Smacks Death i have bulging discs L4 L5 S1 . i purchased a dds 300 spinal decompression belt and yes it hurt for a few days wearing it but in between wearing it i drink lots of water . i dunno for me its helped . i still have some numbness in the back of my thigh and some numbness under my foot heal but im almost pain free . i was in screaming pain before i did all this .
What the hell is wrong with the cameraman when you ask him to zoom in and he has no effing clue what you’re talking about..... hello cameraman wake up !
Are you sure you can add up 38% + 37%? There may be a significant overlap between the two groups. P(A or B) != P(A) + P(B) Any links to the referenced study?
***** Even if your addition was correct (which you have not shown), your argument would still employ another fallacy: inversion of implication. The (assumed) fact that most painless people have degenerate discs does not mean that most people with degenerate discs are painless. So should you worry if diagnosed with protrusion/hernia? I say yes, until solidly proven otherwise. Although the presentation of your argument is fallacious at several points (also: appeal to authority when asked for reference), your conclusion may still be correct by chance. Let's hope this is the case and no one was mislead. Sorry for being so critical, but advising people in health matters is a great vocation and a great responsibility. Sometimes this becomes only apparent when one is personally affected - as in this case I am.
+physicaltherapyvideo Thanks for the link, I may read the book in the future, but I think I'm getting the gist of it and I do completely agree that conflicts of interest easily lead to the proliferation of biased and unethical diagnostic practices, protocols and guidelines. This loss of trust is the exact reason why many people like me get down and dirty with researching stuff that ideally should be the medical community's responsibility.
I actually agree with the statement in your comment. In the video however, you convey a slightly different message, stating herniation is part of the aging process and advising not to panic. Some people may take this as encouragement to not have their protrusions and hernias monitored and treated. Now I know this sounds as a strawman, but if I 'misunderstood' your video, others did too. I certainly am alarmed by my own protrusion: I have taken a glance at a few papers (cited below), and based only on those I do not see enough evidence to dismiss possible correlation or even causation between disc degeneration and back pain. Since it seems rather straightforward to set up a study to show the existence (or the lack of) correlation and the degree of determination (R2), I suppose such studies exist out there, I just coudn't find any (maybe there is some confirmation bias or publishing bias involved). I would appreciate if you could help out with this. Now the ones I did find are very similar to the one you mention in the video: they only raise a strong suspicion that pain might not be caused by or correlated with disc degeneration (or may be less correlated than thought before). There seems to be a whole industry thriving off this suspicion (which is not a bad thing in itself; it is a bit weird however that no one asks the straightforward question and no one does the straightforward study).
References:
1. Jensen MC, Brant-Zawadzki MN, Obuchowski N, Modic MT, Malkasian D, et al: Magnetic resonance imaging of the lumbar spine in people without back pain. N Engl J Med. 1994;331(2):69-73.
2. Hitselberger WE, Witten RM. Abnormal myelograms in asymptomatic patients. J Neurosurg 1968;28:204-206.
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This video is currently trending on a grappling news site and fb group called 'BJJ Eastern Europe', this is how I got here. Judging by the comments some guys out there are using it as support for a reckless 'no excuses' approach - which was clearly not your intention. After speaking to you and watching several other videos it is clear you are not downplaying the possible negative impact of disc degeneration - all you are promoting is less paranoia, less unnecessary surgeries, less diagnostic revenue scam, and much more PT. Which is perfectly in line with both scientific evidence (as known to me) and ethical standards. Notwithstanding your imperfect argumentation (which can and does lead to misunderstandings you never intended), your intentions are good and your overall conclusions are valid, I applaud you for your work. I loved the jelly doughnut video :) Bottom line: thanks for the clarification, liked and subscribed.
Thanks! Now I actually found a 2010 study that supports my common sense suspicion: although painless ppl have an astonishingly high incidence of disc degeneration, people with back pain have an even higher (!) incidence of degen. This suggests there *is* some correlation as expected. Of course, the methodology of the new study should be consistent with previous studies in order to compare them and draw conclusions. Also more studies would be needed...
So in layman's terms: it seems you shouldn't throw the scans completely out the window, but you also shouldn't rely on them too much. Not all protrusions are evil.
It would be possible to exactly quantify the terms 'completely', 'too much' and 'not all'; but that's not my job, that would be too deep an involvement :) Wow, one really has to go to great lengths to protect their health in this world. Keep up the good work and I wish you a lot of success with your patients!
Reference:
7. Gilbert JW, Martin JC, Wheeler GR, Storey BB, Mick GE, et al: Lumbar disk protrusion rates of symptomatic patients using magnetic resonance imaging. J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 2010 Oct;33(8):626-9.
Oh this is a recurrent disc
Sad part is I’m not that old.. my 70 year old mum has no problems
I guess I am confused about your statistics. Why in the world were there that many people who had absolutely no pain/symptoms in their backs but had a lower back mri ? That makes no sense to me at all.
Its part of an experiment. They had 2 groups. People who had pain and people who didn't.