Martin Great video 2 years ago, I bought a 25-year-old Florida boat with a substantial new 4.2 Yamaha (250 SHO) EVERYTHING, except the engine was replaced Electrical was a major concern Fortunately, I was able to persuade a recently retired marine electrician to do a complete rewire.. He used over size battery cables for better current flow and because battery cables degrade over time I installed 4 Oddessy AGM batteries (2×27 2×31) and a 100-watt solar panel Along with the main battery switch, I have a sub panel switch that shuts down most of the systems (easy to use when I'm leaving the boat) Over time, I've decided I don't need shore power and leave the main battery switch always on both ( I keep a little battery pack in case I needed a jump start). As far as battery monitoring, I am simply viewing the alternator output voltage and battery bank voltage via Simrad I have the same electronic accessories as your boat, with the exception of a water heater (we have a little portable propane) I do wish I'd known about the Firefly AGM's when I rework everything Final Note: I'm shipping my boat from Newport Beach to Bellingham the 2nd week of July The plan is to a month cruise to Glacier Bay and back Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated
When I re-wired my boat earlier this season, I did similar by upsizing all wire to the max size the device could handle. That's good practice. I always recommend an actual battery monitor such as Victron's BMV712. Voltage readings aren't nearly as accurate for knowing how much capacity remains. Some bad news about Firefly's... In the past several months it's been nearly impossible to find Oasis Firefly Carbon Foam (AGM) batteries for sale. Fishery Supplies in Seattle, Pacific Yacht Systems, Ocean Planet Energy... all no longer carry them. Rod Collins, who founded and owns marinehowto dot com posted this on FB in the "Boat Electrical Systems" group that he also runs. "The US distributor for Firefly batteries (the only carbon foam battery made) is no longer importing them due to quality control issues. At this point in time I would not spend your money on Firefly until they can get their QC issues sorted. They were amazing lead acid batteries when they were made in the USA. It all went down hill when the current owner moved production to India". - Rod Collins, March 15, 2022, Facebook Boat Electrical Systems private group.
We’re in the process of doing the same thing. In the end we decided to go with Victron Agm’s similar to the firefly’s. We also decided to add a wake speed external regulator for our alternator. Hopefully the install goes well as we have an upgraded solar array and charge controller already. Thanks for the video!
I've been looking at little at voltage regulators. Right now, I'm waiting on a Yamaha Auxiliary charging cable (backordered until mid December). To replace my house to engine ACR. The Yamaha F300 can output to two separate battery banks. It currently only outputs to the engine bank which uses an ACR to then charge the house bank. Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching!
Great overview Martin. I’m doing a 400 watt solar upgrade and monitor currently. Plan to keep my original agms for now. Hope we get a fishing season this coming summer but I’m not optimistic.
You're gonna love that 400 watt array. :) Last years shrimp season was a bit 'different'. I actually got more days shrimp'n than I ever had before in a single season. But I'm hoping they go back to the more traditional season for Puget Sound Spot Prawns in the San Juans this year.
Thanks Martin, great to see we are all in the same boat (pun intended). Our bank is fine, Trojan FLA, we installed a monitor last year to get a better understanding of our needs. Inverter this year and we should have the whole picture to size solar and the replacement back that will inevitably happen. Like you we have been looking at Firefly for the exact same reasons. Thanks again.
I’m glad you found this video useful. Note, firefly batteries are hard to find in the USA. I was told by Rod Collin’s who runs marine how to dot com that they outsourced their manufacturing to India and quality control declined. As a result, the USA distributor for them stopped importing them into the US. My 3 firefly’s failed this past January. I upgraded to Lithionics lithium iron phosphate as a result. We’ll have a video published all about this shortly. Thanks for watching!!
It's kinda weird to see a 36V setup (3x 12V). Most standard equipments mostly used 12, 24 or 48V. I need to check how costly they are now comparing with LifePo4 battery systems. The 80-100% DOD is terrific! Beside that, I don't see so much better difference... weight/size/cost vs Lithium since you can now get 12V 280 Ah pack at around 600$US
Thanks for watching! The three Firefly batteries were hooked up in parallel, not series. The entire boat is setup for 12volts, not 24 or 36 volts. The 3 batteires just increased capacity. Since this video was published, I have since upgraded from 3 Firefly battieres to LiFePo4 (320ah). If you haven’t already, check out this video. th-cam.com/video/M7Z1lVW-t-Q/w-d-xo.html
With an outboard, there is no engine heat. It’s raw water cooled. The only way I can make hot water is via 120volt ac power via shore power or the 2000 watt inverter.
I’m a little confused. 6 months ago you did the Firefly install. Then last month you posted a lithium conversion. What are you running on Channel Surfing, Firefly or Lithium?
We upgraded to Firefly batteries initially in the fall of 2020. We upgraded to LFP in March 2022. There's an upcoming video that'll talk about why the switch and what happened, as well as what it takes to upgrade from AGM to LFP. Channel Surfing today is running 320ah of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. We have published some preliminary information on this upgrade at our web page. This was a TON of work, way more than I expected and pretty much took up all of my time, for a couple of months, to make the conversion. -Martin www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/lithium
Great question!!! Space is very limited. I'm not aware of an inverter or inverter/charger that is ignition proof. Anything installed in the cockpit lazarette need to be ignition proof since there's a 150 gallon gasoline tank located there. Our 2,000 watt pure sine wave inverter is located inside the cabin, while the battery chargers are located in the cockpit. The spot the inverter is located is behind the AC electrical panel in the cave, inside the cabin. It is cramped, no space to spare. Heck, when I have to replace that inverter, it's probably a good 4 hours of work to tear the back bulkhead off the boat to get access to it. I would have much rather had an inverter/charger instead. They're less expensive than an inverter and two battery chargers. Thanks for watching!!
I haven’t spent enough time thinking about hot water. I watched your ib/ob comparison and now I’m concerned. An outboard is a must but now I need to figure out how to best generate hot water at anchor. Did you at any point consider propane tankless water generation or do you know anything about marine application?
In the past several months it's been nearly impossible to find Oasis Firefly Carbon Foam (AGM) batteries for sale. Fishery Supplies in Seattle, Pacific Yacht Systems, Ocean Planet Energy... all no longer carry them. Rod Collins, who founded and owns marinehowto.com posted this on FB in the "Boat Electrical Systems" group that he also runs. "The US distributor for Firefly batteries (the only carbon foam battery made) is no longer importing them due to quality control issues. At this point in time I would not spend your money on Firefly until they can get their QC issues sorted. They were amazing lead acid batteries when they were made in the USA. It all went down hill when the current owner moved production to India". - Rod Collins, March 15, 2022, Facebook Boat Electrical Systems private group.
I have a lot of pain, time and money invested in my house bank. I always knew I'd eventually end up with LFP. But I figured those Firefly batteries would have lasted longer than a year. All the analysis about LFP vs AGM on boats show overall cost of ownership, that LFP is less expensive per kilowatt-hour. The catch is, LFP is expensive up front where as with AGM, it's less expensive, but the costs repeat every 3-5 years (or 3-5 months in my case, Lol). LFP batteries are supposed to last 10+ years. I do look back at my videos and sometimes shake my head at myself. Haha.
Size and weight. They're still AGM. I initially went with Firefly batteries because they were different. Better than conventional AGM, yet still are considered an AGM battery. However, I've since upgraded to Lithium Iron Phosphate. Check out this video if you haven't already. th-cam.com/video/M7Z1lVW-t-Q/w-d-xo.html
The batteries are sized for a single overnight away from shorepower. That's fine for most people. I will admit our usage is above-average. I had to decide to learn to live without, or add capacity. I opted for the latter. Thanks for watching!! Since this video was published, I've upgraded to LiFEPO4. If you haven't seen this video yet, you may find it of interest. "We upgraded to Lithium Batteries. What it took to get there and how they work for us". th-cam.com/video/M7Z1lVW-t-Q/w-d-xo.html
Our 400 watt solar array is our generator. During boating season I can see 15-25amps from solar. For when that's not enough, I pair that with the Yamaha F300 that'll output between 20 and 45amps to augment solar. A generator is one more thing to carry around. It's a carbon monoxide poisoning risk on the boat. It's noisy in a quiet anchorage. It's an additional cost. It'll also probably rust on me as I'm in saltwater.
Martin
Great video
2 years ago, I bought a 25-year-old Florida boat with a substantial new 4.2 Yamaha (250 SHO)
EVERYTHING, except the engine was replaced
Electrical was a major concern
Fortunately, I was able to persuade a recently retired marine electrician to do a complete rewire..
He used over size battery cables for better current flow and because battery cables degrade over time
I installed 4 Oddessy AGM batteries (2×27 2×31) and a 100-watt solar panel
Along with the main battery switch, I have a sub panel switch that shuts down most of the systems (easy to use when I'm leaving the boat)
Over time, I've decided I don't need shore power and leave the main battery switch always on both ( I keep a little battery pack in case I needed a jump start).
As far as battery monitoring, I am simply viewing the alternator output voltage and battery bank voltage via Simrad
I have the same electronic accessories as your boat, with the exception of a water heater (we have a little portable propane)
I do wish I'd known about the Firefly AGM's when I rework everything
Final Note:
I'm shipping my boat from Newport Beach to Bellingham the 2nd week of July
The plan is to a month cruise to Glacier Bay and back
Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated
When I re-wired my boat earlier this season, I did similar by upsizing all wire to the max size the device could handle. That's good practice. I always recommend an actual battery monitor such as Victron's BMV712. Voltage readings aren't nearly as accurate for knowing how much capacity remains.
Some bad news about Firefly's...
In the past several months it's been nearly impossible to find Oasis Firefly Carbon Foam (AGM) batteries for sale.
Fishery Supplies in Seattle, Pacific Yacht Systems, Ocean Planet Energy... all no longer carry them.
Rod Collins, who founded and owns marinehowto dot com posted this on FB in the "Boat Electrical Systems" group that he also runs.
"The US distributor for Firefly batteries (the only carbon foam battery made) is no longer importing them due to quality control issues. At this point in time I would not spend your money on Firefly until they can get their QC issues sorted. They were amazing lead acid batteries when they were made in the USA. It all went down hill when the current owner moved production to India". - Rod Collins, March 15, 2022, Facebook Boat Electrical Systems private group.
We’re in the process of doing the same thing. In the end we decided to go with Victron Agm’s similar to the firefly’s. We also decided to add a wake speed external regulator for our alternator. Hopefully the install goes well as we have an upgraded solar array and charge controller already. Thanks for the video!
I've been looking at little at voltage regulators. Right now, I'm waiting on a Yamaha Auxiliary charging cable (backordered until mid December). To replace my house to engine ACR. The Yamaha F300 can output to two separate battery banks. It currently only outputs to the engine bank which uses an ACR to then charge the house bank.
Thanks for the feedback and thanks for watching!
Great overview Martin. I’m doing a 400 watt solar upgrade and monitor currently. Plan to keep my original agms for now. Hope we get a fishing season this coming summer but I’m not optimistic.
You're gonna love that 400 watt array. :) Last years shrimp season was a bit 'different'. I actually got more days shrimp'n than I ever had before in a single season. But I'm hoping they go back to the more traditional season for Puget Sound Spot Prawns in the San Juans this year.
Thanks Martin, great to see we are all in the same boat (pun intended). Our bank is fine, Trojan FLA, we installed a monitor last year to get a better understanding of our needs. Inverter this year and we should have the whole picture to size solar and the replacement back that will inevitably happen. Like you we have been looking at Firefly for the exact same reasons. Thanks again.
I’m glad you found this video useful. Note, firefly batteries are hard to find in the USA. I was told by Rod Collin’s who runs marine how to dot com that they outsourced their manufacturing to India and quality control declined. As a result, the USA distributor for them stopped importing them into the US. My 3 firefly’s failed this past January. I upgraded to Lithionics lithium iron phosphate as a result. We’ll have a video published all about this shortly. Thanks for watching!!
It's kinda weird to see a 36V setup (3x 12V). Most standard equipments mostly used 12, 24 or 48V. I need to check how costly they are now comparing with LifePo4 battery systems. The 80-100% DOD is terrific! Beside that, I don't see so much better difference... weight/size/cost vs Lithium since you can now get 12V 280 Ah pack at around 600$US
Thanks for watching! The three Firefly batteries were hooked up in parallel, not series. The entire boat is setup for 12volts, not 24 or 36 volts. The 3 batteires just increased capacity.
Since this video was published, I have since upgraded from 3 Firefly battieres to LiFePo4 (320ah). If you haven’t already, check out this video. th-cam.com/video/M7Z1lVW-t-Q/w-d-xo.html
@@Letsgochannelsurfing i forgot about parallel haha, my bad!
aren't you using your engine heat exchanger o heat-up your hot water tank??
Cheers.
With an outboard, there is no engine heat. It’s raw water cooled. The only way I can make hot water is via 120volt ac power via shore power or the 2000 watt inverter.
I’m a little confused. 6 months ago you did the Firefly install. Then last month you posted a lithium conversion. What are you running on Channel Surfing, Firefly or Lithium?
We upgraded to Firefly batteries initially in the fall of 2020. We upgraded to LFP in March 2022. There's an upcoming video that'll talk about why the switch and what happened, as well as what it takes to upgrade from AGM to LFP.
Channel Surfing today is running 320ah of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries. We have published some preliminary information on this upgrade at our web page. This was a TON of work, way more than I expected and pretty much took up all of my time, for a couple of months, to make the conversion. -Martin
www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/lithium
Why not go with inverter charger, Victron or Magnum or something else. Seems close to same cost as the Charger that you installed. Space?
Great question!!!
Space is very limited. I'm not aware of an inverter or inverter/charger that is ignition proof. Anything installed in the cockpit lazarette need to be ignition proof since there's a 150 gallon gasoline tank located there. Our 2,000 watt pure sine wave inverter is located inside the cabin, while the battery chargers are located in the cockpit. The spot the inverter is located is behind the AC electrical panel in the cave, inside the cabin. It is cramped, no space to spare. Heck, when I have to replace that inverter, it's probably a good 4 hours of work to tear the back bulkhead off the boat to get access to it. I would have much rather had an inverter/charger instead. They're less expensive than an inverter and two battery chargers.
Thanks for watching!!
I haven’t spent enough time thinking about hot water. I watched your ib/ob comparison and now I’m concerned. An outboard is a must but now I need to figure out how to best generate hot water at anchor. Did you at any point consider propane tankless water generation or do you know anything about marine application?
I considered it. The only place I could fit a hot water heater is in the cockpit, near a 150 gallon gasoline tank.
Where can you buy these? Seems like stock is non-existent?
In the past several months it's been nearly impossible to find Oasis Firefly Carbon Foam (AGM) batteries for sale.
Fishery Supplies in Seattle, Pacific Yacht Systems, Ocean Planet Energy... all no longer carry them.
Rod Collins, who founded and owns marinehowto.com posted this on FB in the "Boat Electrical Systems" group that he also runs.
"The US distributor for Firefly batteries (the only carbon foam battery made) is no longer importing them due to quality control issues. At this point in time I would not spend your money on Firefly until they can get their QC issues sorted. They were amazing lead acid batteries when they were made in the USA. It all went down hill when the current owner moved production to India". - Rod Collins, March 15, 2022, Facebook Boat Electrical Systems private group.
what model number batteries did you get?
Thanks for watching! All the components of what I installed are published on our website.
www.letsgochannelsurfing.com/battery-upgrade-techtalk
Where do I install the quantum flux capacitor?
They are on back order everywhere.
Fast fwd two years later and $12k later. And wow, lithium is the best!!! Haha
I have a lot of pain, time and money invested in my house bank. I always knew I'd eventually end up with LFP. But I figured those Firefly batteries would have lasted longer than a year. All the analysis about LFP vs AGM on boats show overall cost of ownership, that LFP is less expensive per kilowatt-hour. The catch is, LFP is expensive up front where as with AGM, it's less expensive, but the costs repeat every 3-5 years (or 3-5 months in my case, Lol). LFP batteries are supposed to last 10+ years. I do look back at my videos and sometimes shake my head at myself. Haha.
Why not six volt batteries
Size and weight. They're still AGM. I initially went with Firefly batteries because they were different. Better than conventional AGM, yet still are considered an AGM battery.
However, I've since upgraded to Lithium Iron Phosphate. Check out this video if you haven't already.
th-cam.com/video/M7Z1lVW-t-Q/w-d-xo.html
They should put better batteries in the boats
The batteries are sized for a single overnight away from shorepower. That's fine for most people. I will admit our usage is above-average. I had to decide to learn to live without, or add capacity. I opted for the latter. Thanks for watching!!
Since this video was published, I've upgraded to LiFEPO4. If you haven't seen this video yet, you may find it of interest.
"We upgraded to Lithium Batteries. What it took to get there and how they work for us".
th-cam.com/video/M7Z1lVW-t-Q/w-d-xo.html
Genset wouldn't be better?
Our 400 watt solar array is our generator. During boating season I can see 15-25amps from solar. For when that's not enough, I pair that with the Yamaha F300 that'll output between 20 and 45amps to augment solar.
A generator is one more thing to carry around. It's a carbon monoxide poisoning risk on the boat. It's noisy in a quiet anchorage. It's an additional cost. It'll also probably rust on me as I'm in saltwater.