I had an abortion... Or maybe I didn't: Leslie Cannold at TEDxCanberra 2012
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2012
- NOTE: The topic of abortion is sensitive to many and we understand audience views may be divided. Please keep comments on topic and use appropriate language or they could be blocked or removed.
"I had an abortion... Or maybe I didn't. What does it matter?"
In opening with that question, ethicist, Leslie Cannold, challenges us to reshape our thinking on abortion.
In the West, one in three women will have an abortion in their lifetime. Yet, society still places a stigma on this most mundane of medical procedures, and in doing so, perpetuates a cycle of shame that keeps abortion hidden and places unreasonable pressures on those needing or wanting one.
Leslie Cannold argues we must stop the cycle of shame, that it "doesn't matter if I've had an abortion... or have I?"
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Who is the real victim here? I thought it would be the baby that lost its life and was never given a chance.
If men could get pregnant. Abortion clinics. would be everywhere. For something so personal it is absolutely not my call to judge or tell a woman what to do with her body.
So you are saying if you got your wife or girlfriend pregnant, but you wanted the baby and she didn't, you wouldn't have a say? You wouldn't have a say if your child got to live or die, that is simply her decision and she could do whatever she wants, with your baby, loikle she conceived the child on her own?
What ion you didn't want the baby and she did?
I am pro life.
Do not put gender equality into this subject! This is about morals, not about how you think women are "oppressed." Of course, throw in a comment about how women are oppressed, then you can't get criticized right? Sorry, but that's not how the world works
Yes, we are not here to condemn the world. That's God's place. But Christians have a moral obligation to reprimand other Christians...not the world that isn't saved... but to teach those who are doing wrong. Murder is murder. The word of God is plain. If a pregnant woman is murdered than there have been two murders committed. This is for Christians to follow. Christians. We don't have a right to judge the world... only other Christians. If a Christian does not correct another Christian then they are also guilty and should feel shame. Shame is the natural response when one has done something wrong. We need to not only shame the women but also the men who have put them in that condition and even more so.
And the baby's body? And if you are the father?
this video does not have nearly enough views.
The best way to end a conversation is to stop replying, rather than trying to control what others do.
@carolina hernandez you don't have to get an abortion if you don't want to. However with pro-lifers you actually are being controlled and don't get a say in your own future but okay.
Extremely powerful and brave talk. We need to raise the curtain of shame for the millions of women who had or will have an abortion, and we need legislation to protect abortion.
Arnie M
It's pathetic that a science undergrad cannot tell the difference between total physical dependency and biological independence. I'll spell it out for you so hopefully you'll understand: a fetus needs to be PHYSICALLY ATTACHED TO THE WOMAN'S BLOODSTREAM TO SURVIVE. An infant does NOT. An infant is able to survive being physically separated from the mother. An infant can survive being taken care of by a person who is not the biological mother.
This is a pretty important difference.
I really appreciate both of these comments
It's not the same, because of two points. First, in conception a cell us created, also the DNA and the chromosomes. The cell itself is living because it autonomous, and we are multicellular, because that single cell, divided to form wbo we are now. But the chromosomes and DNA explains why we weren't a part of women's body. The chromosomes tells if we are gonna be a girl or a boy or if we are gonna have some types o diseases or disability. And DNA, which is inside the chromosomes, tells us how we are gone look like, but that's not important, the thing is that there's no other DNA as the one anybody has, it's unique, because of the combinations that forms it. That is, the DNA from that baby is diferent from his mother's, his father's or any other living person
Also, the baby is attached to the woman to survive, because it can not be form otherwise, but that doesn't tell me it's not alive, it tells me that it hasn't been developed completely yet. Five minutes o a month before it is born, is also connected to the woman, and doesn't tell me it's not alive. By what you are saying all the people who are connected to something in the hospital to live, is dead, even though it can move or think by themselves, think of what you put in every aspect, because it doesn't make sense, more if you are misinformed and only think by your opinion
Wrong.
Without help
No one can survive.
There are many issues I have with her statements and presentation. However I'll just leave my question here. Why isn't she fighting for both the mother and the unborn child?
You mean the fetus? She's fighting for women rights to their own bodies, stay pressed.
@@anaalves3869 Keep telling yourself what ever lies you need to, to get through your day for your cause to kill.
@@mtoohill keep being obsessed with women bodies creep
@@anaalves3869 typical extremist. Disagree with someone so you have to call names. Comeback when you grow up and can have dialogue with adults.
Abortion raises ethical questions because it makes us consider when life begins and whether we should prioritize the life of the mother, or the life of the fetus. Utilitarianism is a consequentialist ethical theory that views ethical arguments through the principle of utility, which promotes the maximization of welfare in society. Utilitarianism can be useful when discussing abortion because of the idea that there is no absolute value placed on human life, meaning it avoids moral questions about when human life begins. Act Utilitarianism is most useful, as it prefers to judge each individual case on its own standards, meaning that the decision to pursue an abortion would solely be up to the mother, and what the consequences would be for her life. However, when viewing abortion through the lens of Act Utilitarianism, it is difficult to establish the full consequences of an abortion, and other deontological theories may need to be taken into consideration.
But some things are worthy of shame
I've had 3 abortions. I regret them all. Please if you are reading this dont have one. Save yourself pain in your heart.
So sorry to hear that. IRMA in Mexico helps psychologically. Also confession, sacraments and rosary. The 3 will look after you.
I have as well and I don't regret them in the slightest. If I took your advice then my life would've derailed so badly. My abortion was the best decision I ever made in my life.
i was born and i regret being born don't have a baby.
Thank you for you regret, God will forgive you and heal you're heart and emotions, Jesus.
You would also regret not having the 3 abortions. I think regret is just in your nature.
Abortion is not regretted by many women. That's also a fact
There are many places where women can get help. I know of many of them in my community.
To any women out there struggling with hidden pain, know that you are not alone and there is help for you, people who won't judge you and you will have total anonymity.
I've BEEN a woman who was pregnant when I didn't want to be. I fail to see how that would've excused the act of having my daughter killed just because I didn't want to be pregnant right then. Her father was a rapist & abuser, and he wanted me to have her killed, too. I'm not "devoid of empathy for [my] fellow women". I just begin that empathy earlier in a woman's life than you do.
Thank you for your testimony. You are very strong. Can I ask how are you doing? Would you wish a different outcome? Did you ever find justice?
Can you share the good experiences and growth that you had as a result of your brave decision? I hope the best for you.
@@FilosParaSofia thanks. I'm remarried for 10 years and my daughter is in her early 20's now and happy to be alive and we're happy she's with us.
@@xalisae Life is good. I'm glad!
Thank You so very much for this wonderful talk! 💜💜💜
Shame = Silence = Ignorance. Shame hurts women. Shame does not stop women having abortions. Women who had abortions should speak out and share our stories.
Empathy = Connection = Empowerment
I had an abortion... Or maybe I didn't but it doesn’t matter because We won’t be silent anymore.
GREAT TEDx TALK!
+Lorena Flores Agüero People think abortion is shameful because you are destroying a human life. Go ahead, speak out about it, but people do judge your actions.
JT Faisa actually is not "human life". It's human cells. Just like hair and nails. But yeah, people will judge no matter what. Even if you post something on your own personal social media page.
*****
you think a fetus is just another part of the woman's body? have you failed biology?
JT Faisa maybe you should try to take some classes on women issues and biology too.
***** the characteristics all individual biological organisms have is genetic coding (dna), reproduction (cellular division), growth and development, and metabolism. A fetus and an embryo has these characteristics. A fetus can be male. A fetus can be mixed race, while the mother is just one race. They are their own human life and we were all once fetuses.
You can agree or disagree with abortion, but saying that a fetus isn't an individual human life is factually incorrect.
Man, this comment section gave me cancer.
You and me both.
X2
Who said I was apathetic to survivors of sexual assault? Being sexually assaulted is a terrible thing. I say that as a survivor myself. But refusing to recognize the humanity and dignity of our children at every stage of life is worse. I can heal from being sexually assaulted. Children can't heal from abortion. Defending abortion is disgusting.
I want every child to be left to live. We are resilient. We'll be able to take care of ourselves. No "force" about it.
I'm not going ANYWHERE. EVER.
Not if you give it up for adoption. If you can't feed a child, you kill it? An ultrasound cannot predict how happy someone's life will be. Give them a chance. Peace
look up the adoption figures in your country and then ask yourself that question again.
A person always has the right to put her own health above the health of another.
If I don't want to donate a lung because my future plans feature me with both lungs, you have no right to FORCE me to give a lung, even if another person is dying without one.
Call me selfish if you want, it's still MY body, MY lung.
Don't try to pass a law that says I HAVE TO donate my healthy lung to a dying person, because that implies the health of the dying person is more important than my rights to my body.
Again, apparently you don't understand the difference between a zygote and an actual person who has been born. It's actually scary that you don't.
You comparing disabled people to fetuses is insulting to disabled people
Maybe you should stop comparing fetuses to people and accept what they are: non-independent living organisms that are occupying the organs of a person
An abortion IS a woman deciding she doesn't want to be pregnant. You getting in her way is you telling what to do with her body
My ex-husband, my child's father, was also my rapist. Killing either one of my children wouldn't un-rape me. Killing either one of them wouldn't heal me from that experience in any way, and would certainly only make it WORSE.
A woman's future is equally important to her child's future. A woman can carry to term and give birth while still having a future, contrary to what you think for some reason. Killing a child robs that child of their entire future.
Not the case for everyone so
This is a beautiful way to silence the stigma of murder (r@pé or really any behavior) and make people feel okay with their choices.
Thank you! So empowering.
Well said.
you are my hero
At what point does fertilization occur? Is it when the plasma membranes of the sperm and egg fuse? Is it when the plasma membrane of the egg hardens? Or maybe it's when the chromosome packet from the sperm fuses with the nucleus of the egg? Or is it when the genes of the father begin to express themselves? But how do you measure when that happens? is it when the DNA is transcribed into RNA? or when protein synthesis occurs? Or when the completed protein folds? Even fertilization is a grey area.
My mother had me just a few days after she turned 20. I have thought a number of times through my life -Did she consider the posibility of aborting me? And immediately after that I'm so happy she didn't, because I exist and I love to live and I love her.
We aren't asked if we want to live, the names we'll have along with a lot more, but to think so many lifes have been interrupted like mine could have makes me so incredibly sad. I was just one cell, we all were, and we are all here fighting every day. I just fucking love to be living, even with al the problems, I just am, and nobody could have known that when I was unicelular.
I think it's sad we live in a world where many people will wonder if their parents at one point wanted to murder them.
@@anarchisttutor7423 sure it is, but that isn't an argument against abortions, believe it or not many living children's parents want them dead, often ones whose parents were denied abortions
I'm sorry to hear about your sibling. I'll include your sibling, your mom, the rest of your family and anyone else who has been affected by abortion in my prayers.
Please pray for me too im totally destroyed from having had one 20 years ago
"And I couldn't care less how old you are or aren't." It happens to be directly relevant to what you are saying- you said you weren't saying anything personal to me, but it is because it concerns women my age.
I didn't realize that there were any children involved in an abortion.
I agree with your dynamic and needed talk & especially the core desire for people to stayed connected. I loved your description of the cycle of silence creating shame, then the inability to learn or think clearly Without clarity of mind ,a body of accurate knowledge in a situation cannot be learned. You make your family so proud with the work you are doing.
From an embryology textbook used my medical students in UBC confirms:
"Human development begins at fertilization [emphasis in original], the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoon) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell, the zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell is the beginning of embryonic development." (Moore & Persaud)
We become human beings at fertilization, when the sperm meets the egg and creates a zygote. Sperm or egg on their own are human parts but zygotes are human wholes (human beings). The sperm is composed of 23 chromosomes, the egg is composed of 23 chromosomes and the zygote is composed of both (46). So the answer is no, a woman isn't committing murder when menstruating since she sheds unfertilized eggs. Hope this clears up any confusion.
that's an opinion, not a fact. You don't even have a brain at fertilization, I would argue you're less sentient than a plant
Anya Tindall I’m stating a scientific fact. Perhaps your opinion is that a human being is not a person unless he/she is able to think or function properly. In that case then how about someone who is in a coma but still alive? How about persons with disabilities?
So glad I found this. Both my daughters have had abortions, both made this decision based on their own reasons. I also have a grandchild from one of my daughters. I'm proud that they both were able to stand up and say "Im not ready to have children yet" or "I have a child and couldn't cope with another one". It should be a womans choice.... without being judged.
Congrats, your daughters murdered their children because it was "inconvenient" to have them...
Wow..As a human I’m disgusted! How does that feel good to say!? “I KILLED MY BABY” No, your daughters had no rights to choose for another human body, just like we couldn’t choose for their body.
Who cares if we're judged or not; if you want an abortion, just do it. And when people try to shame/convince/convert you into believing it was wrong, invalidate and mock their trying to force emotional intimacy with you.
Imagine those beautiful children god intended for them to be in this world, imagine them calling u grandma 🤍
Your daughters have blood on their hands. I pity them...and you.
Shame spirals, parochialism, oppression of women etc. etc. Abortion is the killing of another human being. It's rather curious that we're never reminded of that by pro-choice.
I care equally for both, because they are both human beings. "Hopes and dreams and plans for the future" is not a license for one party to kill the other. I had hopes and dreams and plans for the future before I got pregnant with my daughter, too. The answer was changing my hopes/dreams/plans, NOT killing her. The fact her father raped me wasn't a license to kill her, either.
What was good for you isn't desired by others
@@thunderpooch not being killed is optimal for anyone.
@@xalisae not true, no one would commit suicide if you were right
@@alyssarosa1398 people who commit suicide are not exactly in their right mind to know that that’s not the right thing for them. Most people who survive that regret that they ever attempted it.
@@daniellenm395 you don't know who is in their right mind or not. Yes, in some cases mental illness or a psychotic episode can cause a temporary loss of discernment but not in every case. A lot of people commit suicide to end their pain and suffering because it has simply become unbearable. While they may not want to die, they just want the pain to end which is why they end up doing it
Having a mental illness isn't an excuse to kill a child, either. Hearing voices, unreasonable fears, etc.-those things need psychiatric treatment, not child-killing. Killing is not a legitimate course of action to take in order to try and alleviate one's problems. Being FORCED to die is just a bit more unreasonable than being FORCED not to kill your child (not just "your rapist's child", YOUR child, too) for a few months.
According to data from National Center for Health Statistics, legalization of abortion wasn't responsible for reducing abortion deaths. The discovery of antibiotics in the 1940's actually reduced deaths by providing treatment for infections. National Center for Heath Statistics shows before 1941, there were 1,400+ abortion deaths. After Penicillin, deaths were reduced in the '50's to approx 250 per yr. By 1966, w/ abortion still illegal in all states, the # of deaths dropped steadily to 120.
With abortion discussions you cant use comparisons. Nothing compares to the topics being discussed. Doing so leads to problems...
Love it!
Although I don't think we should expect that every issue is resolvable, it doesn't help in the case of abortion that we've made it an issue of sociology, gender equality, choice, etc., when in fact the issue is philosophical: what exactly is the status of the fetus, and what kind of ethical consideration, if any, do we owe to the fetus? This is the entire question, with the other questions entering only secondarily. So, for example, if it turned out that the fetus were fully human rather than non-human or an intermediate species; were genetically distinct and a whole unto itself rather than a part of some other organism(s); were developing actively according to its own internal instructions, though at present underdeveloped and dependent; were only ever becoming a fully-formed human being like you and me, and the only thing from which fully-formed human beings like you and me have ever come; and were distinguishable from fully-formed human beings like you and me only in virtue of factors that are ethically irrelevant, such as size, location (within the body of another), specific functionality of individual systems, and so on; then it would seem that a woman's choice is totally irrelevant, in the same way that no where else does the right of choice trump the fundamental right of another. If it turned out that the status were highly ambiguous or indeterminate, yet without recommending (above all) caution or the Hippocratic principle, then choice might enter as a sort of tiebreaker or to tip the scales. The idea is that it is always secondary, following upon the question of fetal status.
Here I've made a shortened version of the argument that a fetus deserves at least some ethical consideration, though not necessarily to the same degree as you and me; but that wasn't the main point. The main point is that the status of the fetus is all that matters when the action in question involves cutting the thing to pieces, and to talk about choice before settling the question of status is a nonsensical non-sequitur. Both sides of the argument would be better off if we kept the focus squarely on the question of fetal rights -- again, whether or not they have any. If ever we could hope to rationally resolve the issue of abortion it would be in this way.
Let's just say I'm not optimistic.
I will not shame women for crushing their own children’s sculls and having their baby’s limbs ripped off one by one so they can then be assembled on a small metal tray to be sure they got all of the parts. Who on earth would actually think an act like that is anything to be ashamed about...
Please explain how I'm sticking up for child abusers by trying to guarantee that all women have full reproductive rights without dumbshits trying to decide for them. This should be amusing. Let me get my popcorn.
What is "zaikast" I am Polish, don't understand it.I am ashamed for being Polish.
My friends father had an abortion clinic. He was an alcoholic and hang himself, his wife had a car accident and his daughter killed herself. I am ashamed.
To solve this problem sign for adoption of the child.
I'm glad I'm out of that relationship, too. However, I didn't "choose" to not to kill my child. It was what I had to do b/c it's wrong for mothers to have their children killed, & should be illegal. I do love my child, but what if I didn't? Should that be a license to kill her? My friend's mother hated him&abused him. Should she have had a license to kill him? He doesn't think so. I don't, either. Realize that circumstances are irrelevant, being female is not a license to kill your child.
This is beautiful. Hopefully I can muster up courage to break the silence.
Your continued belief that the fetus is not a separate human being, that it is simply another body part of the woman amuses me. Are you saying that you are not actually a unique person, but that you are actually your mother?
Shame is a natural reaction when you realized that you did something wrong.
Sarah Griffin shame is also a natural reaction when you think you are at fault for not living up to society standards.
I do not believe that just because you’re opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don’t? Because you don’t want any tax money to go there. That’s not pro-life. That’s pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is.
Happy Mother's day
If it's considered murder to kill a child then abortion is also murder because the preborn is also alive and human.
If infants were separated from an adult caregiver for a given length of time, you'd find them to not be very independent organisms, either. Separate a kidney patient's blood supply from their dialysis machine, & THEY wouldn't be very independent, either. The gestating child is not attached to their mother's blood supply. They have their own blood supply. "We also know biochemically that it is an independent organism distinct from the mother."-Dr. Bernard Nathanson, co-founder of NARAL
Good thing that's not the case any longer. Rape is illegal, programs exist to help mothers as they finish their education, and employer discrimination based on pregnancy is also illegal. Mothers have so much more open to them than "barefoot and pregnant". Also, adoption exists, so even if a woman doesn't want to be "saddled" with her child, she doesn't have to kill them.
A woman in a disadvantaged position is usually due to a COMBINATION of factors-not just having children.
FYI mental illnesses go WAY BEYOND "hearing voices" and having phobias.
Treatment for them can take years of therapy and/or the consumption of mood changing drugs.
Puzzle me this: a woman is taking a drug to keep her mentally healthy, but this drug is known to cause severe birth defects. If she becomes pregnant, should she stop taking the drug even though this action is GUARANTEED to make her life instantly unbearable?
This is far from an established fact, the real answer is that /we don't know/ at what precise moment we become separate entities. What is your evidence? How do you know what you think you know?
understanding, not condemnation and constant shaming from others who don't understand their circumstances. Thank you for your most insightful speach on drawing awareness as to what post-abortion women really have to go through.
I'm aware of the tribulations of mental illness. Some people who are very close to me have struggled with it for years. I still don't see "kill the child" as a valid treatment strategy for a mother going through such a thing.
I'm not a doctor, but if you're having trouble wrapping your brain around the treatment of a pregnant mother with mental illness, you can find resources at rethink(dot)org. :)
See, that's where you're not getting it. Your emphasis is on "SOME WOMEN CHOOSE..." when it should be on "THEIR...CHILD". One decision IS more morally right than the other, because it doesn't result in the taking of a very young child's life. But I agree-let's not tell other ppl what to do w/their bodies & their lives. Namely, let's not tell them to die and their bodies to be destroyed. It's not our place.
Great to see this online!
Yes, you did. You chose not to have an abortion. You chose to continue the pregnancy because that's what you wanted, that's what your moral values told you is right
The option to have an abortion existed, but you didn't take it, THAT'S WHAT HAVING A CHOICE IS
If you didn't love your child you should not be a mother. People who are not capable of being parents should not have children
If a person realizes she is not fit to be a mother and she decided to terminate a pregnancy, respect her choice
By your "logic" killing a born child needs to be legal if the parent decides they are not capable of caring for their children anymore... Oh I mean they should be able to make a CHOICE lol... Some choices should not be legal - like the choice to kill a child and the choice to kill an unborn child.
yes, that is correct. However, it isn't a separate entity yet. It's still just part of the mother.
"It is, in fact, not surprising to find that those who are both victims and apologist for the use of violence and severity against children are often those who most passionately proclaim their love of the unborn child, i.e., the kernel of life. Abortion can, indeed, be seen as the most powerful symbol of the psychic annihilation and mutilation practiced since time immemorial on children." Alice Miller
The women know that they wronged their child, he she and is forever hurt, adoption not abortion. This speaker is morally bad, no moral core, no compassion for the unborn.....final answer.
This video is a good example of linguistic relativity. I always see the same dull tactic used by pro-choice, religion and politics, in that they try to maneuver the semantics of words and try to weave that into a "logical" argument. It is their way in which to alter perceptions without any real basis.
Why don't you give an example from the video of one or two of these "maneuvers?"
Science is the basis. We now know that at implantation the baby has a brain and consciousness. I am an abortion survivor in the 8th week of my mothers pregnancy. I had traumatic undescribable night terrors until I found out this truth. 8 weeks into the pregnancy I had consciousness and memory of the murder of my twin. Science proves heart beat is established by a circulatory system that can only be established by a brain. So now that we know it's a baby and murder of one, we need alternatives. 1 easier and less costly adoptions. 2 programs to house and care for pregnant girls where their parents have exiled them. 3 abstinence and the why's behind it. 4 all employers must provide free child care. 5 The men must be held accountable by forcing them to take on employment to support their unwanted children. ..... Get the point?
@@TINAROSE8888 your cobtribution is brilliant. No way to argue
@@catalinaguzmancantante212 there is. Mima hasn't shown any ways in which we could implement these measures or any understanding of the complexity of these situations. Yes, in a perfect world no one would have abortions, but our world is far from perfect and sometimes abortions are the way to reduce the most amount of suffering possible.
Excellent presentation on ethical-compassionate vs. shame-based societal motivations...and why it should matter to everyone.
Shame-based societies hurt everyone, directly or indirectly, for generations on-going. Isn't it about time to change this massively dysfunctional, ingrained habit?
Shame is a useful tool for curbing destructive behaviors, especially as an alternative to violence when given the choice. My comment will make more sense for people familiar with voluntar(y)ism.
Sorry. I missed the ethic. One can be compasionate to someone sho aborted, despite her action was unethical.
By the yr before Roe v. Wade allowing legal abortion on demand in all 50 states, the death rate for illegal abortions had fallen to 24 in '72 (w/25 additn'l deaths as a result of legal abortions). In '73, there should've been a drop in abortion-related deaths w/abortion legal in all 50 states & "back-alley abortions" eliminated w/ their alleged total of maternal deaths. Yet abortion-related deaths increased again w/ 25 deaths resulting from legal abortion in '73, 26 in '74 and 29 in '75.
A gestating human being is not MORE important than their pregnant mother. I never said they were. They are, however, EQUALLY IMPORTANT, since they are both human beings entitled to basic human rights, starting with the right to live. Someone's abilities are not what entitle them to basic human rights-their humanity is. I think you don't care for human beings at all, if you're more enamored with what someone can do rather than who and what they are.
Some women choose to carry their abusive partner's child. Kudos to them. Some women decide they cannot psychologically handle that. Kudos to them too. Neither decision is more morally right than the other.
Point is: let's NOT tell people what to do with their bodies and with their lives, because it's not our place.
Like toddler & adolescent, the terms "fetus” doesn't refer to non-humans but to humans at particular stages of development. Human beings inside the womb are smaller, less developed, & more dependent than human beings outside the womb. These are differences of degree, not differences of kind. We can point to other people who are bigger, stronger, smarter, or less dependent than we are, but that doesn't make our lives any less valuable or any less deserving of protection.
Indeed, when you have nothing just claim that the other person is liable to start being terribly offensive-never minding, of course, that you've been pretty insulting yourself.
Im more for reducing suffering in the world, suffering is suffering regardless of species or type of mammal human or non-human. I don't have a big issue with fully aware dogs being put down in shelters, because they hopefully don't suffer much or for very long. Of course I adopt them. Now if these potential people are just going to exploit all other species someday, why should I care for them? I never had a abortion tho. Rather than my words, others should consider their actions to all life
I think, in my opinion, she was not giving a debate about having an abortion or not. She said that any woman who have had an abortion needs, Like every other person the right to open Up about their decision and ends the stigma. A lot of young girls starting to commit suicide because of the huge regret they feel and cant find redemption or help.
its a strong personal opinion. But for good or for bad, the abortion in this situacion had already take place. we need to support woman who feel in pain and in need to share their expirience.
I think everybody lives with their own demons & problems. And that's enough. Let's talk about our opinions and problems without censure.
What does it matter? Well, if you are a relativist, then nothing, I guess. But then, why stop at pre-natal abortion? Once the fetus is outside the womb, or post-natal (to use cozy innocuous Latin terms) it is much easier to determine whether there are any previously undiscovered defects, and, after all, the criteria by which personhood are defined and determined are extremely elastic, and of course, different in the case of each post-natal fetus, so you may find yourself deciding in the fifth or sixth post-natal trimester that this fetus cannot reasonably be considered viable in terms of taking on the attributes of personhood (Latinate words really do make things nice and cozy, and safe - well, unless you have thoroughly studied Latin). Some people might baulk at this, having arbitrarily decided to call this thing a baby merely because it is outside the womb and are therefore uncomfortable at the idea of terminating at such a late stage, but what does it matter? Well I guess that just depends on who you ask. It is all just relative, right?
Denby Evans That's so sweet. I hope you're vegan and believe in sparing ALL suffering.
I'm not asking or arguing anything, and yes I am vegan. I'm also pro choice. Have a beautiful day.
Maybe you should read the definition of veganism. here it is straight from the vegan society:"A philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude-as far as is possible and practicable-all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals." Sure you can take it further to reinforce a belief you may or may not have held in the first place, but to deviate from the actual definition isn't acceptable. You deserve nothing more from me. You have google obviously...punch in some words if you're ever unclear about anything else.
I too believe that it is wrong for an individual to control someone else's body. That's why I'm against abortion. Abortion involves someone (the woman) controlling another person's body (the unborn). The mother's body and the child's body are separate therefore the woman can only control her body to the extent that she doesn't hurt the child's body. Maintaining pregnancy is simply doing for the unborn what parents must do for the born, which is to provide shelter and nourishment.
"Maybe I killed a baby.... or maybe I didn't. It doesn't matter, because we won't be silent anymore." Never be ashamed of anything you do kids, that's bad for your self esteem, and Americans need more self esteem.
I believe you missed the point in which she said that most abortions happen right after women find out that they are pregnant, that is, what you call "a baby" is just a bunch of cells, sometimes with no heart or no nervous system, therefore not a person, and not a life. Why do you stand up for a bunch of cells and not for women who, of denied assistence and proper medical care, will probably have a desperate abortion anyway, but this time probably with no assistence and no sanitary conditions?
Early abortions are NOT killing babies.
They are killing embryos that, if not terminated, will become babies.
I am 18 years old and a few days ago I was told I was 6 weeks pregnant. I quit school due to severe mental illness and for similar reasons have no job. I used an IUD, the most effective contraception we have come up with, but it failed - I'm the 0.1%. My mother is poor, and the father has no interest in the child.
If I go through with this pregnancy there is a significant chance I have a stress-induced psychotic episode and throw myself out a window, especially as I will not be able to take my medication.
Is this enough reason to let me have an abortion? What about if I was raped, and thus took no sexual risk at all? What if the unborn baby was literally killing me - should I keep it for the sake of the 5% (for example) chance we both survive?
Are the rights to life of a lentil-sized brainless embryo more valid than my rights to better life chances? Or a life at all?
+Zoe Adams ....thats fake but if you were 18 and having sex...you knew the birth control could fail so you chose to take this risk. if you choose sex you choose to make a baby if your method fails. stop having sex! in the case of rape or health abortion is questionable but the baby of rape didn't ask to be torn apart and there is something called adoption. six week old plus two days the embryo has its own brainwaves plus it has a beating heart. seven weeks it has hiccups. yes reasons for abortions count but most of them are for stupid reasons......
really? so childfree people like me should remain celibate our whole lives because we might experience a contraceptive failure?
@@isabellaoliveira4945 it may not be a “baby” as in the stage of development, but it is your child as in your offspring. You are still killing your child
You're right, no man has a right to make choices about a woman's body. Although, "kill" is a bit of a strong word for an abortion.
it isn't too strong if that's what people tell you that having an abortion is...in fact i was accosted by a "pro life" protester who told me i was committing murder.
Furthermore, the claim that thousands of maternal deaths occurred due to illegal abortion doesn't measure up when compared with other statistics. About 50,000 women of child-bearing age die each year - from all causes combined. To suggest that 10,000 of these deaths were from illegal abortion would make that the cause of one out of every five deaths, or twenty percent. This would have made illegal abortion the leading cause of death among women in that age group.
@3:00 "Shame" is an emotion inherently part of natural mentality of people. The mind cannot feel or generate emotions that are not innate mental capacities or dispositions. Thus it is illogical to say society causes people to feel shame. Society cannot elicit emotions that do not innately exist. This is why the speaker is in denial and obviously repressing her natural remorse with her publicly expressed delusions. Rather than society causing shame, this speaker is using society to repress her shame. It this lady was alone, in isolation, she would feel the remorse & regret for her actions.
I have plenty of compassion. I don't think women have a "duty" to reproduce. The problem is, once a woman is pregnant, she HAS. ALREADY. REPRODUCED!, and a child is alive in existence. What I can't stand is the thought of that child being killed and robbed of their entire lifespan so early in it. You support the execution of an innocent party just because their father happens to be a rapist. You're the one with blood on your hands. That's pretty stomach-turning.
Shame is a huge issue in abortion obviously. However what she didn't mention is what is most troubling - the reason why. If this is simply a misguided feeling then simply say so, however the issue of life should be handled with care. So there should be emotional weight attached to the issue and simply try to whisk shame away without dealing with the underlying cause is weak. That is simply denial and not something that should be striven for. We can deal with the issue of abortion but let's not pretend that there isn't a life in the middle of it. (Read a textbook sperm + egg = conception ---> the beginning of life) People who don't are always going to leave themselves open because anyone could point out that this is a cowardly way to deal with such a serious issue.
Nope. Not really. I actually have quite a few activist friends in the Pro-Life movement who are post-abortive themselves. They say that the suicidal feelings, depression, shame, and guilt were all coming from inside themselves, even back when they surrounded themselves with other "pro-choicers" patting them on the ass for their "brave decisions" & inflating their confidence-deep down they knew what they did, and it hurt them profoundly. (Silent No More/Rachel's Vineyard)
"But to combat this evil merely at the symbolic level deflects us from the reality we should not evade for a moment longer: the reality of the abused and humiliated child, which, as a result of its disavowed and unresolved injuries, will insidiously become, either openly or aided by hypocrisy, a danger to society." Alice Miller
Okay I am done talking to robots. Goodbye.
Sylvie Shene so just kill the person instead? Assume the person will have no positive contributions to society for an entire life and therefore kill the person in infancy before they have a chance to prove otherwise.
actually it is a 'mundane medical procedure', max 20min to complete. day surgery. even having your tonsils out you gotta stay overnight
No, killing a child is murder. A fetus is a potential person. By your argument, it's murder to have sex with a condom.
is she really saying if i have a abortion and YOU a evil to say i'm bad. really . on what planet do we live on
Wrong. Parents have obligations to use their bodies to provide for offspring as long as they have default custody. Whether that means using your body to work a job to get money to provide for that child, or in the case of a preg mother, gestating that child. Bodily autonomy rights are not absolute always.
I'm not raising my daughter to hate other women. I'm raising her to understand that the fact she was conceived under bad circumstances doesn't mean I should've had a right to have her killed.
? Did I say they weren't? Oh-I thought I had personally insulted you, if you aren't offended, what's the issue? "I also never said that "their wishes over their own pregnancies are irrelevant effectivley"."If you believe they shouldn't have the optionof abortion then yes, that is what you believe. "to make sure they are considering more than themselves." Firstly grown women do not need you to 'make sure' they are properly considering things, 2nd- why on earth should they?
Why not just adopt baby out? Because you are afraid of stretch marks? “Hey baby I’m going to keep you from existing and having a family because of my convenience and my image , it’s better to act like nothing happened”
Oh yes, I called you a brick wall- therefore you must have the moral high ground and the fact you made no real effort whatsoever to actually refute most of my points is meaningless. Do look upon us all kindly from your lofty heights.
There is no legal precedent for a person to be FORCED to nourish another person WITH THEIR BLOOD and there never will be.
Even if a person is dying and desperately needs a blood transfusion, it's completely illegal to take someone's blood without permission.
So why should fetuses be an exception to this?
What 'a shame' that your talk is all about you. How you feel about yourself. Its all about you! I didn't hear one word that talked about the LIFE that was being aborted. Especially as you made a comparison to blowing your nose; as if the unborn child is as unimportant as some nasal snot. At the end of the day, the shame you experience when you take a life is not because other people make you feel it, its because we were born with a conscience, to know right from wrong. And it is inherently wrong to take a life in the womb because its inconvenient to your life style. That's why you feel shame. its really very simple. Don't complicate it by trying to blame other people for your own personal decisions. And the statement by Martin Niemoller should be applied to the unborn child. If no one stands up for them, who will?
The speaker is saying the opposite of what is true. What is true is she has a natural personal shame (regardless of society) and she is using society, in her public speaking, to repress or deny her shame.
You're just shoe-horning YOUR definition of a child.
Ask any doctor. A fetus is a fetus and will remain a fetus until birth.
Fetus is Latin for baby
Then maybe you should inform yourself. A human embryo/fetus is the offspring of his/her parents. "Offspring" is synonymous with "child". That stands regardless of how old that offspring is.
"I don't think a fetus is a child." That's your lack of comprehension-not my problem. "By medical and legal definition, a fetus is not a baby." I never said they were. One can be a child of one's parents without being a baby. I'm about the right to body autonomy, too. That's why I'm against abortion. Bodily autonomy begins in utero with uncompromised bodily integrity.
Why do anti-choicers say that an abortion is a punishment on the fetus? The fetus has no conscience or self-awareness. You cannot "punish" something that cannot tell the difference between right and wrong. Makes about as much sense as "punishing" a plant.
Rape victims are not exacting a revenge fantasy when they get an abortion. They are simply solving a situation that they don't want, which is being pregnant. They don't want their rapist's baby, which I think is understandable.
Not that I'm a fan of the whole abortion issue or anything as if given the option I'd rather choose pro-life than abortion, but in saying that as a woman who's been through an abortion myself in the form of a medical termination at 14 weeks for medical reasons I've found it very difficult at times to relate to people who call themselves pro-life when you find people within these categories so quick to judge and condemn women who are victims of abortion when all they want is compassion and...
The father can make any promise or commitment he wants. In a committed relationship, the fathers opinions are obviously taken into account as well. But NOONE has the right to force someone to be pregnant against their will. NOONE has the right to force someone to have an abortion against their will. There is no promise that makes trying to do that okay. The only person who gets to make that decision is the pregnant person. Other people get a say only as far as the pregnant person wants input.
Most women hope their fathers will accept the fact that their "little girl" is pregnant, even though she's all grown up, but still hope their father will understand that, this is an Aquard time, yet need his approval, to have her baby 🍼 like Madonna sang, "papa don't preach I'm in so deep and I made up my mind I'm keeping my baby."
Great talk!
"A gestating human being is not MORE important than their pregnant mother. I never said they were." But you do say this. You say this in every. damn. argument.
A fetus is more important than a woman's right to use her own body. A fetus is more important than a woman's physical and mental health. A fetus is more important than a rape victim's need to heal. A fetus is more important than a woman's entire future.
That's what you've been saying all this time. And you have the gall to deny it?
I think she was using it as an example of a woman wanting an abortion being forced to do something against her will, only if they do not consent, if you consent and are okay with it it is not "rape" like. The issue is consent and shaming on the women who want abortion but do not want the ultrasound. These would be women who know 100% that they are pregnant.
My boyfriend , who i ve been with only for one and a half month, wanted to have a baby, so one day he came inside me, he only confess after some days , it only happened once.... i guess, i got pregnant, i don't love him, i have no job or money to support a baby, his ego flying high, he doesn't care about me, he wants to manipulate me..... do you think is fair to keep the baby ? ..... If abortion is a murder then all guverments should financialy support women to keep their babies .....is it fair ? Where is the justice?.....who will support me now? How will i work and grow a child by myself? .... or should i live with a selfish man that i don't love, just to support the baby.... and will this be fair for the baby? To have parents that they don't love each other? IS IT FAIR people? Speak Up !!!!! cause i m loosing my mind, fear is all i see..... where is the LOVE ? And if God gave me this task , and if i fell small and scared right now.... then God will understand, God will accept me and understand that if i don't keep the baby it was fear that got place into me ... support those women ... we suffer more than anyone else that just talks about abortion without understanding
MusicAndOtherColors abortion is the murder of an innocent baby
No, I'm not. I'll ask a doctor if a fetus is offspring, and if offspring is a child of its parents. I think I know what they'll say! A fetus is a fetus and will remain a fetus until birth. However, "fetus" and "child" are not mutually exclusive, & as a matter of fact, they imply each other.