Diet culture and Fatphobia in Kpop
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ม.ค. 2022
- TRIGGER WARNING: Fatphobia, diet culture, graphic descriptions of disordered eating, mentions of eating disorders
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @redvelvetsus
Check out my Patreon! - / redvelvetsus
BUSINESS INQUIRES ONLY: redvelvetsus2@gmail.com
my spotify playlist: open.spotify.com/playlist/153...
my wishlist: www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls...
FAQ:
how old are you?: 20
which groups do you stan?: my ult groups are bts and red velvet. i casually stan and listen to several other groups.
what editing software do you use?: imovie
do you have any other social media? -
instagram: / conversehlgh
twitter: / renemeowmeow
tumblr: / gaay
tellonym: tellonym.me/namjoonsmaid - บันเทิง
people will come on here and preach about “body positivity” but then turn around and bully idols who aren’t as skinny as they’d want them to be. i’ll NEVER forget how kpop twt treated jeongyeon when she gained weight, ESPECIALLY since they KNEW she was on hiatus. they knew she had just had surgery, that she was taking medication, that her mental health was bad and they still ruthlessly bullied her and called her offensive names simply because she had a rounder face. kpop stans are hypocrites and i take nothing they say, especially abt this topic, seriously
This. People will complain about kpops/Asia's strict beauty standards, but then only stan groups that meet those standards. There's a reason why even internationally, visual members are always among the most popular.
Dude some kpop fans are hypocritical and have double morals if an idol gains weight they’re bashed if they lose they get bashed if they stay the same throughout the years they get bashed . There’s no winning especially within the female idols. I do think there needs to be more conversation about this but there need to be a certain understanding that there’re still ppl who look like idols without going to extremes bc I’ve noticed the last few years that skinny shaming has becoming very normalized but it needs to change. Body shaming is wrong no matter in which extreme side ppl do it. Since 2014 I don’t think that I’ve ever seen ppl body shaming an idol more than Lisa and now Jongyeon as well it’s crazy.
Or they’ll complain about an idol’s mental health and that we have to mindful of it and then they go and bully idols like Jeongyeon or making fun of their mental health like Mina and Jeongyeon
@@suzyocean7392 yup, you’re absolutely correct, especially the part abt the visuals. people say they don’t care abt visual positions but they clearly do!
@@neb.9489 seriously and it’s something I was guilty of ,I used to not really write hate comments but definitely had hateful thoughts towards Jennie during 2018 hate train. Needless to say I learned from that and yes I was wrong about Jimin (no comments either) but I never had those thoughts again bc I don’t know these ppl.
I still feel guilty for that and if I ever get to meet Blackpink I will apologize to her.
Being skinny has nothing to do with creating music or being in a band, nor should it demean the worth of someone. But apparently it does and apparently being skinny is crucial to debut. It's sickening.
Because kpop is not only about music, looking pretty is important, being fat make u more ugly and that's science
@@mylovechoerry2233 what
@@mylovechoerry2233 I know you didn't watch this video and say something this stupid lol
@@aestheticclown2200 Did I lie?
How about we don't feed the troll? Stop replying to mylove choerry.
i grew up hearing "you'd look so pretty if you lost some weight" from my peers AND from adults. now i often read comments like that directed at """"bigger"""" idols and i truly wish that people could just think about what they're implying by that, like for a second at least
I also think a lot of kpop fans don't really realize that they're contributing to this issue and maybe even body shaming certain idols. It doesn't take many minutes of scrolling on kpop tik tok to find people talking about how "healthy" idols like Jeongyeon or Seeun look, when in reality most of the time you can't even tell a person's heath based solely on their weight/body. Same goes for videos commenting on idols that recently seemed to lose weight (saw this with Ryujin and Hitomi among others). I think a lot of kpop stans need to learn to just let idols gain or lose weight without commenting on it, because a lot of the time those kinds of comments (doesn't matter if they're positive or negative) can still effect a person a lot, especially since a lot of kpop idols (and fans) already have eating disorders
the amount of insanely backhanded comments kpop fans make..
I am a kpop fan, I know what's happening in the industry, Eds, assault, over working, mistreatment, mental heath problems within both boy and girl kpop idols. I just cannot stop listening to it, if I stopped listening to their music, I have no other music to fall back on and listen to. Ik I'm being selfish, but even if I quit listening, kpop industry is still giant without me
i agree on the opinion "the outfit isnt good the person is just skinny" and i am a skinny person myself. people call these idols fashion icons when they are just skinny and thats why the outfit looks good. they could just be wearing jeans or a simple t shirt and people would call that a great outfit when the person is just skinny. if the person had a bigger body type people wouldn't call that a good outfit. i dont know if im elaborating enough but this is what i think.
Maybe the outfits compliment their body type more than a fat person?
Thank you for being so honest
I agree and this isn’t just a Korean or k pop issue models like Kendall Jenner and Bella hadid are also included. There’s videos discussing whether they are dressed well or are they just skinny. Although when it’s not a k pop idol there seems to be more willingness to have a discussion around it but when it’s a k pop idol people get so defensive and close minded.
I agree to some extent. I think being conventionally beautiful, thin and famous makes any outfit “iconic”. An obese regular person wearing jeans and a hoodie seems way less iconic then Bella Hadid wearing jeans and a hoodie, right?
Hearing momo talk about her dieting honestly made me cry. It’s absolutely disgusting that these grown ass adults are forcing children LITERAL children to go on diets. I can only imagine the trauma of having to go through that at such a young age. I do really hope that this changes quick cuz no person should ever have to go through that (obviously I know that this will take a long time to change because of how ingrained fat phobia is in korean society).
Fatphobia is everywhere and not just Korea. Stop trying to normalize obesity. It's not healthy.
@@incognitoparty trying to dismantle fatphobia is not the same as promoting obesity. you clearly missed the point
@@incognitoparty have you heard mono talking about her diet? have you EVEN? if you did you wouldn't be commenting what you are
Not only trauma, but their physical health. Imagine being 16 and not fully developed and being forced to eat one thing a day or not being able to eat over a certain amount of calories. Add that with the amount of dancing and exercise they do
@@bbypinkcherry fat acceptance culture has taken over body positivity. Y'all just are lazy and not want to put in effort to lose weight, so you're just wanting society to change where fat people are also regarded as beautiful.
Former trainees Gina Maeng (from JYP) and Coco said that most of these “healthy” idols are not healthy at all and most probably developed an ED. I mean Taemin has always has this “feminine-like” body (small, thin waist) he was constantly praised for. But the moment he entered the military and started eating like a normal person would, he instantly gained 10kg. He debuted at such young age he’s probably on such horrific diet his entire life.
I am incredibly worried about Taemin to be honest.
Oh man… I just want him to be ok
lived in Korea for 3 1/2 years, and diet culture absolutely dominates so much of life. people will look at/comment on your eating habits, even coworkers that you've barely spoken to.
(TW, I'm about to talk diets/disordered eating habits.)
I saw so many female coworkers skipping lunch or eating only a mini serving of rice and veggies, after skipping breakfast or replacing breakfast with an iced americano. at the first school I worked at, every single Korean teacher was on a diet except one. like one coworker who I was pretty close to at the time told me she wanted to lose about 5kg for her wedding; that doesn't seem wild, until you factor in that she was already barely 150cm (5') tall and notably thin. seeing her not eating at school & shrink even more was terrifying. I get people are defensive over their idols but I truly don't think they understand how normalized diet culture and blatant critiques of your body are in Korea in every day life. now there's a trend to book photo sessions at fitness or 'bodyline' studios a few months in advance, so you can diet and exercise as much as possible to have proof of how thin/fit you are. like.... this sh*t runs deep.
This needs to be pinned tbh
Thank you for talking about this! I find it very interesting and educating! I didn't know it was this bad
I believe it is a thing that managed to carry its way out of South Korea. I have Koreans relatives (due to marriage) and friends. Some of them struggle with this too and we're American and are currently living in the States.
@@antonfriberg881 I think it's hard to realize unless you live there a while tbh, like it's such a casual thing to shame/commentate on people's bodies, especially among the people you're close to.
@@mimiandy1683 unfortunately that doesn't surprise me, I know Koreans living in America who will put off visiting family because of the body-shaming they experience.
the worst part about the "body positivity" is when kpop stans DELIBERATELY draw attention to a kpop idol gaining weight, but instead of fatshaming them they're like "look how much healthier they look!". it's no one's place, EVER, to start talking about what your body looks like and how much "better" or "fatter" you are. trying to draw attention on an idol's weight gain throws bait to the edgy, awful ed kpop stans who then rip them apart in the comment section. it has to stop
Plus that calling someone healthier because they gained weight is pretty much skinny shaming them.
@@raynatumbeva780 that i disagree with, sometimes people suffer from eating disorders and gaining weight is actually healthy
@@maimerochuu I disagree, too. When someone used to go to extremes to be skinny and is just recovering any comment on their weight can worsen things.
@@raynatumbeva780 skinny shaming doesnt exist
@@lunali7209 Yes it does
ive always been pretty skinny for most of my life but ill see idols, especially my hight (5'6) or taller, post their weight and they're 30-40 pounds lighter than me and it honestly makes me sick to my stomach sometimes when you realize how unhealthy it is
Thank you for talking on this topic. The story about Momo is so sad bc she said every night she’d cry when she went to sleep bc she didn’t know if she’d wake up. Jeongyeon has also been criticized for what I think is nonsense since she took a hiatus to get away from the industry, what do you expect her to do work out?
kpop stans also need to stop labeling the "thickest" member of the group as "healthy". it's so tiring to see how people have been praising idols like ryujin (for example) since debut for having a "healthy" body when in reality she confirmed herself that she and chaeryeong had to secretly eat in the bathroom. or how they sometimes felt like passing out cause they just drank but didn't eat anything for several days. almost all idols diet and some just look different because of their body type + idols like ryujin are still obviously skinny?? just saying, you can't solely base someone's health on how their body looks from the outside.
i feel like a lot of kpop stans only think that this topic only revolves around female kpop idols, but in reality, there are a lot of male adols who go through this stage as well. an example that some of you might know is shindong. when he debuted, he was critized heavily for his weight and was ignored of his skills. every comeback he goes on a diet, but even so, he is called well... a pig. in the same group, it was said that yesung starved his dinner for a month for his solo album. it seems that the standards are set high for men as well. you NEED to have a six pack ab and muscular arms, or else you dont have an attractive body, but you cant be too burly, or else you you look too big. people need to realize that there are multiple people going through this, not only females, but males as well.
I can be wrong, but Shindong isn't the guy who said that "girls must be skinny to be called 'girls' and in his case it was ok because he is a man"?
I asking because maybe I didn't hear the whole story (and I DON'T agree with any of fatshamming he suffered).
You made me think of Taemin. Before the military, he was around 43kg (he is 5 feet 9 inches tall). In an interview, he said that he had gain 20kg since he joined the military.
Its a scary thought that this man will have to drop that weigh before he makes a comeback.
@@pessoinhacansada6900 he did say that but he issued out an apology. It was ok written LOL just google "shindong fat shaming apology" and u can judge whether its a good apology or not.
Men face it too, but you’d be lying if you said they had it worse. Women are shamed more when it comes to looks and weight.
@@rotisserie8444 oh, yes. i totally agree. i just wanted to put out that men in the world face it as well. (if that makes sense)
A huge concern of mine is when people obsess over how small an idols waist is. I've seen this a lot with male idols especially and it's so concerning because when the idol sees posts like these they will continue to do all that they can to maintain such a small waist which can easily be unhealthy. Also for all the young fans that see those types of posts, it's really damaging to their body image and can easily lead people to eating disorders and harmful dieting.
It's terrifying how most of trainees are growing teenagers who need to eat in order to develop. This can cause serious health issues.
We have to also acknowledge that talking about idols' weight in any sense is harmful. When one member gains some weight, fans 'try' to be supportive and the most common comment is 'she looks so healthy'. This is kind of back handed comment and we need to realize that it comes from iternalized fatphobia. We might not realize that and we might think we're having only good intentions but once one idol is visibly less skinny that the others, the comments change from 'she's so beautiful' to 'she looks so happy' or 'she is so healthy'.
last thing, most of the horror stories about extreme dieting comes from female idols but we need to accept that everyone in the industry can suffer from eating disorders. Let's not forget how a male idol gained some weight after his hiatus last year and he got so much hate for it. And all those 'fake feminist' gg stans were the ones who were shaming him for that and after being called out, all they had to say was 'he's a man so he can't be bodyshamed. only women can be victims of bodyshaming'
i agree so much with all of this- and along with being growing teens, these are people who are practicing choreographies and possibly even doing some form of cross-training (i know many idols do strength training or pilates) for up to 5-8 hours a DAY. dance is a sport, and with the amount of exercise these idols are doing daily on top of being a growing human, they need WAY more fuel than most of them are getting. i pray that we can accept and love idols based on performance and not looks someday. athletic performance, recovery, and quality of life matters more than a body type ever will.
i disagree with the term "looks healthy" being fatphobic. being praised for gaining weight is not fatphobic, it's the opposite of that? if anything, it's against people being what others perceive as unhealthily skinny. so many idols are being forced to be stick thin in inhumane ways, and fans have knowledge of that so, when they see an idol gain weight, they genuinely think she is healthier than before. but sometimes it isn't the case. an actual example of that term being negative and harmful is sunmi. she was told she looked "sickly" for being extremely skinny, and then praised for gaining weight after unhealthily binging herself to that weight.
@@dogdog1913 the thing is: this comment itself is not fatphobic but the idea that the comments 'you're beautiful' don't show up anymore is. some fans admitted that they don't feel like saying 'you're beautiful' because deep inside they actually consider less skinny idols less attractive. that's when internalized fatphobia kicks in - they want to support their idol but they don't consider them beautiful anymore - even if they're still very slim, just less skinny that their bandmates.
I agree with you that tthere's nothing wrong with telling someone they look healthy per se. But in this context those comments can really show how fans don't really feel like praising their idol for their beauty
Yeah I’m no not sure how I feel about beign told one looks healthy or commenting on their weight so I guess it is better never to comment it in case they too take it the wrong way but I still can’t say for sure it’s fatphobic per say so I’m a way I do agree with most of what you said
As someone who struggled to recover from anorexia, there was nothing more devastating than people telling me "oh you are gaining weight" "you look more chubby now, good job" "you look healthier" "im happy you are gaining weight"....it doesn't matter if the comments are positive or negative, I was already away to obsessed with my weight and for recover I needed to stop thinking about it for a second...but it was literally impossible with people always commenting on it
If there is an idol who changed their weight, stop commenting...it literally doesn't matter, it is just another proof that weight is seen as an fashionable accessory
i developed an ed 3 years ago as soon i get really into kpop, unfortanely i did most diets that exist in the kpop industry including somi's one. i'm in recovery at the moment and watching this w/o trigger myself as bad as before encourage me that i'm in the right way
Edit: 4:17 it's just crazy how before treating myself my disordered brain used to believe 800 calories its *WAAY* too many, but in reality eating that low will literally make your body break it down, you get so many consequences like low heart beats, osteoporosis, muscles and ligaments tearing...
" I don't ever feel the need to defend skinny people's honor because society already does that for them". Couldn't agree more.
this!!!!
To people who wrote articles about Jeongyeon gaining weight, LEAVE HER ALONE
I am currently majoring for dance in uni and i can't tell you how messed up the weight thing gets. I and some of my peers are "plus size" for dancing standards even though we are not fat at all but I must say the comments end up getting to you. "You are too fat, you are too skinny, get more muscle, get less muscle" some classmates have been even told that to get more flexibility they need to lose some weight when they were young... Thank you for giving this topic visibility, you can't tell nothing about someone's weight, if someone is plus size or really really skinny doesn't mean anything and i hope people start realizing this more
Depends. For the average person it indeed doesn't matter as long as you're healthy. But in some dance genres as well as some sports, rhythmic gymnastics for example, lower weight is more beneficial. Otherwise you simply can't jump as easily. In RG you're also in higher risk of injuries when you're heavier, idk about dance but I assume ballet would be a hell for your feet if you're heavy.
Lol. The stans who keep saying they look more "healthy" because they gained a pound of weight on their hips / thighs. Boils my blood.
female idols are only ever praised for gaining weight if the weight goes to the "right places" (hips, chest or thighs) and makes them look curvier and more feminine but if it goes to literally any other place of her body she will get called fat. it's maddening
I hate those people that think they’re trying to “help” fat people by bullying/insulting them, they use the fact that they’re unhealthy to justify the lack of respect. Like since when was being healthy a prerequisite for respect?
Yes, unless you care about someone's general health (not including weight, you can be healthy but weigh more), it's dumb to point out someone's weight and insult them to make them consider losing weight to be justified by society. I don't think I EVER recall weight factually being the one thing that justifies your health.
They still look ugly. Don't lie you would choose a skinny/average person rather than a fat/obese one.
@@crossroads_y What does someone’s attractiveness have anything to do with my comment? My comment was about people masking there insults as advice/help. What you’re saying is unrelated.
I read somewhere that that's how abusers talk. "I'm doing this for your own good". "You're making me say these things". It's abuse disguised as help. And imagine people do and say these things to their own kids.
@@crossroads_y the efff u on so u would justify attacks and bullying people who are not attractive to you? What people are only meant to be datable for u to treat them like human? I hope you stay single for the rest of your life if you think that way
I feel like kpop fans should just stop commenting about idols' body at all. Like the tiktoks or yt shorts saying "kpop idols with healthy body" and stuff like that no one knows if someone's healthy, and esp when the idol is literally from a very toxic industry that expects them to have the perfect body. And literally everyone needs to know that being fat is not equal to being unhealthy. Health doesn't depend on your waist size or anything. This is so sickening and yes, this is just rooted in almost every society and I really hope people get their mind right and finally we'll forget about the so-called beauty standards
having coming back xmas where my own mother constantly committed about how i'm "too big'" and need to lose weight cause "no man would want a fat wife" it pisses me off how tone-deaf some 'body positive' people are. all these "idol with x if that's your insecurity" videos, they act as if they they're celebrating bodies but what it's is picking apart an idol already heavy judged body and a flaw you deem acceptable in order to make yourself feel better.
it's gross.
That's brutal, I'm sorry. Maybe you should tell your mom that your highest aspiration in life isn't to catch a husband?
That’s even worse, the fact it’s so normalize for our own mothers grandmas and ect to shame us too. It’s no wonder ED is getting worse
First of all, thank you for making this video.
I want to bring up how often I see hit tweets saying an idol has perfect body proportions or freaking out over their tiny waist. That’s literally just edtwt the remix. If you really love your idols, praise them for things other than their bodies.
The fact that even some of the idols y'all call thicc are underweight like i saw somewhere that 82% of female idols are underweight according to their official height and weight
The Momo story breaks my heart - she was afraid to go to sleep during that week because she worried she may not wake up.
theres so many myths ingrained in society to justify fatphobia, its depressing as fuck
I agree completely. There's never going to be an end where someone is satisfied with themselves with standards like these and it's so upsetting to see how people are ridiculed due to the stigma and lack of understanding around body types and weights.
my bf has this "friend" who went on a rant about how the girls from his high school gained weight and he always makes comments about peoples bodies literally the first thing he said when i met him was "so lets see what she looks like, she better look like a girls generation member" (he said it because he knew i was korean) he said it jokingly but it made me realize that korean beauty standards have affected people everywhere. hes not korean, hes lao, and he told my bf that he wants to marry a korean girl and my guess as to why is that he thinks korean girls all look like kpop idols or kdrama actresses. thats how toxic these standards are, these unachievable, unrealistic standards are being normalized and young girls are looking at the methods they used to get that thin and not thinking twice about it. our patriarchical society has a lot to do with it, as men not only play into womens body insecurities, but their validation becomes a significant aspect of beauty consciousness over health. plus the double standards. female idols are pressured to be so perfect, so much more so than male ones, even my favorite male idols like b1a4 sandeul never get comments about how much they eat, its more like a "cute quirky thing" they do. but jeongyeon comes back from mental health hiatus and people go on the attack....
Uhhh yikes I hope he doesn’t influence ur bf. We can’t tell ur man to stop being his friend but I think you should opt out being around him as much as possible and that ur bf eventually does the same if he keeps making such disgusting comments like that again :/
The way somi was called fat and hated until somi lost weight
its really unfortunate how much skinniness matters in korean culture. im half korean and a bit overweight, and my mom is constantly telling me that when i visit, people WILL comment on my body if i dont lose weight. i dont think she says it to be mean, but to prepare me for if it happens. unfortunately its just very normal in korea for people to openly talk about others bodies. my korean sixe of the family does it all the time over here with backhanded "you look really healthy" comments (what they mean is "you look like you eat a lot"). people often talk about american obesity as a bad thing, but in countries where most people are skinny it is also due to harmful attitudes towards food and weight :( i hope smn can change
I often had people tell me that I look better when I lose weight, but when I’m the opposite of what they idolize, they never give me that energy. It’s truly sad. Appreciate people regardless of weight. Momo’s story still gives me chills to this day.
i wish kpop fans (or people in general really) knew that two people that are the same weight can look totally different. if i'm not mistaken, fat distribution, height, and genetics play a big part in this too. not to mention surgeries, non-permanent cosmetic work, makeup, angles, clothes, and padding in clothes also changes what you look like as well.
I remember while I was in high school, a peer's mother told me a way to figure out my ideal weight would be:
1) your height (in cm)
2) minus 100
3) change cm to kg
4) give or take 5kgs
For example, if you were 165cm tall and female, your ideal weight - according to this way - should be around 60-70kgs. However, in the South Korean culture, if you are a woman it does matter how tall you are; you are considered "overweight" if you are above 50kgs. Are there people whose bodys' are ectomorphs who will naturally be around that weight? Yes. But does "under 50kgs no matter what" account for endomorohs, mesomorphs or people who are just a bit tall? Absolutely not. I sincerely hope in the future that the "50kg rule" is abolished. There was even a Korean beauty pageant winner a while back who ended up getting d**th threats as she was over 50kgs. It's heartbreaking.
i remember watching that guys video and finding the comments extremely distasteful. It felt completly invaldiating to say that an entire industry didnt believe that skinny was the right way when thats the reality of how kpop is built and its always disregarded. Not to mention all the comments felt extremely rude towards you when u were only stating a fact
I agree. As someone in recovery from severe anorexia nervosa, I always feel concerned for these idols as you can tell they're struggling. It's so toxic and upsetting. A lot of K-pop fans are so dismissive of all this and I feel like unless you've struggled yourself, you'll be pretty superficial about it.
"most of them are skinny, they're not just skinny than most of their peers"
Spilled
When I was 15, I got into kpop and for around 2 or 3 years tried to self train to audition for a company. I weighed 120 at the time and had kept that weight for most of my growing years. Seeing all the idols being 110 and under, and even watching a video where AOA's CEO told them that if they were over 110 they were useless, made me terrified and want to lose weight. I thought I wouldn't get past audition let alone debut weighing 120. I mostly did BTS Jimin's one meal a day diet, and three times in a year I did Secrets diet, which was roughly 500 calories a day for a week. I lost 3 lbs, 4 pants sizes, and worked out for an hour every single night, excluding my 3+ hour dance practices I did. Every time I did the Secret diet I would break into a cold sweat and start shaking roughly 3 hours after eating. By day 3 of the diet every time I tried it, I would almost pass out in my 3rd period class and tell myself "It's okay,. This feeling goes away after an hour. Just suffer through this class and you'll feel fine." Looking back at old pictures, you could see my cheekbones poking out, and I remember going to bed every night happy that I was finally able to feel my hip bones and see the abs I had been working for. If I wasn't working out or dancing, I was sleeping. I didn't care about school, my future, nothing except losing weight to eventually send in that audition clip. I lied to my mom about having eaten dinner already, I had friends in a culinary class I was taking scolding me to eat the food I just cooked for 2 hours, and even when I did eat anything offered to me, I never finished it. At 18, I did a last minute audition for the Voice and failed it horribly (sang the song too slow, wrong tones, voice cracked, wrong key). After that, I gave up on singing, deciding that auditioning was not my forte (I've always been fine during a performance, but too nervous during auditions). I met my current bf and slowly started eating again because I was embarrassed to starve myself in front of him and all new couples seem to do is go out for food. I lost 3 lbs in a year doing diets, and gained 30 in 6 months because my body was starved for that nutrition. Now, I'm more confident than before but weigh 145 instead of 117, and even tho I still listen to and watch kpop, I don't tell myself I need to look like them to be beautiful anymore. The dirt culture is truly a toxic part of the community and desperately needs to be changed.
I think most people assume, just because people like big butts being skinny is not the beauty standard anymore which is wholly FALSE skinny is still the standard even in the west.
These idols are not average or fit, they are VERY skinny and I dont think people truly realise how skinny they are.
As somebody who has worked in the entertainment industry as a child and is a competitive dancer I can confidently say i know more about this than the majority of you. Cameras make you look larger than you truly are. When you're told to go on a diet you have to look skinny on camera, your real life body is a SECOND thought.
Your idols debuted for their talent yes (partly), however if they were ugly and fat that shit would not matter. Let's stop with this sugar coating, IF YOUR IDOLS WERE NOT SKINNY OR PRETTY (ENHANCED OR NOT) THEY WOULD NOT BE AS FAMOUS AS THEY ARE LET ALONE FAMOUS AT ALL!
Thank you for saying this.
Maybe its due to my ass being a bit older, but I feel like I can see past the "big butt... Kim Kardashian..." facade that has been going on. Thin, even skinny, will always be the supreme beauty standard for the U.S.A.
Not even "slim-thicc" will be accepted in all societies.
Then there's skin color. Kim and her sisters were given praise by major publications for their figures while others like Blacc Chyna and Megan Thee Stallion weren't given as much praise.
Skinny people only get shamed really depending on their community beauty standards but with the type of people in American that get glorified the “Eurocentric style” skinny is the go to for most models and actors and actresses (not as skinny as in eat Asian but skinnier then the Average American women) the whole slim thick was more of a fad anyways
I think one of the saddest things is a lot of these trainees join these agencies when they are preteens or young teens and that’s literally when they are growing from CHILDREN to YOUNG ADULTS like not just mentally like their bodies are actually growing. It’s not something they can control and when your body grows more body mass comes with that. It’s not something they can choose and to force them to maintain the same weight as they were when they were 12 and 5 foot to when they are 16 and 5’3” (or any particular height) is so cruel and enforces the mindset that this was their choice. It makes me so sad for these kids
i have been dealing with an ED for almost 10 years now. i'm doing much better but from time to time it still comes up when i feel bad in general. thank you for this video
The fact that JYP or any kpop company banned any human from eating is fucking disgusting.
Also people who defend unhealthy diets in kpop because it's "for achieving the korean beauty standard" usually tend to criticize the other practices for achieving this standard, like whitening their skin or getting lip fillers/nose job. Like they realize these standards are harmful in these cases, but when it comes to diets/starving they still defend it by saying "its for the beauty standard", so hypocritical
a lot of the fault is on kpop fans, but we also need to remember kpop is from KOREA and alot of these issues are cultural issues. Lookism, colorism, and fat phobia are all issues that korea as a society needs to address but as as international fans have no control over.
Which is why I side-eye some "Korea fans," who constantly talk about wanting to live there and "immerse" themselves in the culture. I know several of those people. I also know they wouldn't live in Korea for not long because of these issues.
What's wrong with encouraging people to look healthy and not be fat? Koreans aren't colorists, and y'all are obsessed with skin color, waaaaaaay more than Koreans
@@incognitoparty lol Korean culture is colourist. Why you lying??
@@rotisserie8444 it's a PREFERENCE
@@incognitoparty Do you even know what colorism means?
Because it seems that you don't understand.
Colorism refers to the SHAMING and RIDICULING of people who have a natural dark skin color in favor of people who have a fair skin color. People born with a dark skin color are often told to try out different kinds of products that are meant to make their skin lighter or are constantly bombarded with unprovoked remarks such as "You're so dark!" or "You're too dark!"
The overall idea behind of colorism is that fair skin color is beautiful while dark skin color isn't.
So, no, colorism is an issue that happens not only in East Asian countries such as South Korea, but everywhere around the world. And it needs to be combatted. NOT all East Asians are born with a fair skin color, so even naturally dark-skinned East Asians have to deal with colorism in their lives too. K-pop idols who have the darkest skin color among their groupmates sometimes receive colorist remarks even from their fellow members.
And it's not a good thing.
Colorism is never a good thing.
Tbh I idolize their bodies too. I've heard some of the dieting horror stories and watched some videos talking about it but I guess I just felt sad for them and went right back to idolizing. After watching this video I think I do have the "the end justifies the means" mindset when it comes to kpop idols and dieting.
Not really sure what I should do honestly because the visuals are a big part of kpop to me, so while I understand that feeding into this culture is wrong, a part of me doesn't want it to change because I like the way they look. It's selfish and pretty fucking stupid but I can't really help it.
The less you can do is keep this idolizing to yourself, don't create this type of content
Hey it's good to identify this. I understand you , the same had happened to me. I think that when we start thinking "we shouldn't think..." " I know it's stupid..." Maybe, that sometimes puts us in a spiral of guilt. If that is your case, I would like to recommend phrases like "I think this way,and this other way of thinking is better and will make me feel better/healthier/happier" or "The fact is that I know this is not something I want to keep on doing, so I will choose to do ___ instead" it places agency and positive outcomes/results that we can achieve. On the other side, when I limited the visual kpop content, saw less musical videos and or diversified music from other artists that are not kpop or from other countries, that also helped me put the beauty standards in perspective
I used to also want to say I used to think this way too and alot of Koreans are pretty slim antiralky. I live near where Korean Americans come around and to me they are just about as skinny as Jennie from Blackpink. So I think as long as they stay healthy and eat well it’s possible but I thjnk the camera trick also messing it up bc apparently it adds 5-10 kg but yeah it worries me when I see idols even skinned then an average Korean girl. I just think having a fit figure is better and that stylist should dress them that compliment their shape and features
thank you so much for speaking on this topic bc it needs to be talked about more this industry is toxic and even though i partake in being in the fandom i've thought about this too and it's so important to be critical of things you enjoy just thank you is all
Great video! This had to be said and i'm glad you're using your platform to open this conversation. I hope people understand your points and use their heads to think before typing comments and that you dont have to deal with bs on here.
Also i'd like to point out that the problem is not only with the industry and the korean culture but also comes from kpop stans themselves who like to throw around the word "fat" as an insult at any given chance. If someone was to say "i feel bad for xyz idol because they went trough an unhealthy diet in order to lose weight" at least 5 people will respond with "you're just jealous cause you're fat" which makes it impossible to have any productive conversations about body image and dieting in kpop and any other idustry in general. We all need to do better as people and as fans of those idols.
The person who commented that tasteless remark at 1:12 needs to understand that an "average"/"fit" build really *IS* unattainable (if you're trying to achieve it healthily) for some people because of metabolism, which is genetic and most of the time out of your control. You can have the healthiest lifestyle (exercise everyday, eat healthy, etc.) and still not have the ideal body. Skinny/fit/average ≠ healthy in many cases. And if, somehow, that person who commented that is reading this (or anyone who holds similar beliefs), I just want them to know that people like them are the reason so many young girls (and guys) have eating disorders and face serious health issues (mental, physical, and emotional) for the rest of their life. Follow your own advice and stop hating "on other" because you feel invalidated by your own poor lifestyle choices.
I'm delighted that someone talked about metabolism, it has such a big role in deciding your general health. What was that person's point in making the comment though? I genuinely didn't understand what their main point was, and if you or someone could explain, that'd be great, because I'm really curious. Their comment got me kind of confused 😅
@@raefblox2138 their point was that kpop idols aren't skinny we are too fat which is what I gathered
Not trying to hate and I also did not like the comment at 1:12, but the metabolism argument actually is not scientifically true because it goes against the law of thermodynamics. It is definitely true that some people have it more difficult to lose weight, but a simple fact is that anyone can achieve a really good body (I'm not talking unhealthily skinny here) if you are in a calorie deficit. That is just how humans work scientifically speaking. It might be more difficult for some, but everyone can lose fat. The calorie deficit should, however, not be so big that it harms you physically or mentally. That is how you achieve a good body in a healthy way. KPop diets are not it.
@@antonfriberg881 they only said metabolism can prevent people from obtaining "ideal bodies" not necessarily healthy ones and yeah losing weight is still possible even if you have PCOS or hyperthyroidism but it'll be extremely difficult
The outfit of Sana in scientist is reaaaally short omggg
unfortunately it's not just kpop, diet culture is Deeply rooted in south korean culture and it just automatically spills into kpop:////
im actually malnourished and in recovery and the number of people whove complimented me on my body is absolutely insane. even before i realized how bad my condition was i used to respond to compliments about my body by telling them "thanks im dangerously underweight" and they would just laugh it off
i have an ed. i havent lost that much weight yet (im trying to recover :c ) but ive heard stories from other people with EDs or had EDs telling them that everyone was praising them and telling them how good they looked when they had lost weight and were malnourished. people asking them “how did you do it?” and treating it as a success story even when they learn the truth. this is why i think ppl just shouldnt comment on others bodies unless they bring it up themselves
i also think the main issue is people just assuming skinny = healthy
@@davestridrIn which it isn’t. You want to have a decent amount of muscle and look toned.
I begun counting calories in September, i went to the extreme lengths to "lose weight" (300cals a day) and i was obsessing with not taking in any sugar. I lost 10kg in less than 6 weeks. Now i suffer body dysmorphia and fear of food, i hate the thought of me eating...and its now reflecting on my physical health. Now i have severe cases of anemia and hypoglycemia. Moral of my story, please if you're reading this DONT STARVE YOURSELF. YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE HAPPIER! PLEASE LOOK OUT FOR UR HEALTH! YOU'RE PRETTY JUST THE WAY YOU ARE!
I feel bad for these idols. I would personally love for the standard to change. Being on the curvier side, i have been very happy with the body positivity movement and seeing women like me who are models. I really would like to see this for idols. I dont like these girls cause they are skinny, but because they work hard to perform and the make music for us to enjoy.
if i see one more backhanded compliment on an idol that recently gained weight as 'aww shes so cute / she looks so healthy' with a pitying undertone i'll lose my shit. STOP COMMENTING ON PEOPLE'S BODIES!.
when i dieted and was skinny, i lost my period, was nutrient deficient, i was 24/7 cold and the skin between my thumb and pointer finger cracked open and wouldnt heal for 6+months. but i got treated the best i have ever been treated in my entire life by friends, family, even strangers. they talked about past fat me so full of disgust as though they werent aware i was in front of them, still the same person inside. it tells me exactly what kind of person (read:trash) you are if you speak of fat people like they're lesser human beings.
Literally! Unless they ask, their bodies are not ur business. Kpop fans have to stop doing this shit it's so harmful
My ex-friend was in love w kpop and bts to be exact. She wanted to be skinny like kpop girls and followed jungkooks path of not eating for 10 days (even tho she knew he fainted while performing after that 'diet') she struggled to walk cos she was so weak and I was so scared for her I pleaded w here to eat my other friends lunch, j half a sandwich.
People denying that kpop body standards are a problem are delusional.
Kpop idols eating on camera and starving themselves off camera is too PROBLEMATIC
Please, make more videos about this topic! I really need to be addressed more directly and clearly, especially the fandom role on that. Look at what happened to Somi who used to be fat shamed a lot (and she DEFINITELY wasn't fat AT ALL) and then she gone through diets (some ok, and some really restricted) a lot of exercise and now is really veeery skinny, and 1- She IS receiving a lot of compliments and people asking how she did it, but also 2- Some people are complaining she gotten too skinny, as if her body is a public commodity to everyone just drop their opinions and change it, like... People never get satisfied until make someone miserable and then, after crushing their mental health, people will judge them AGAIN. (Ps.: I not implying she have mental health issues or anything, just using what was done to her as an example. She must be really strong too endure all of this bullshit and come out of this ok )
So true. I love kpop but this somehow annoys the living shit out of me. The current twice situation where they dont let the "fatter" member wear croptops is scary
dude momo's story is the most heartbreaking thing ever, especially as a once. like she really thought she wasnt gonna wake up when she went to sleep that week... and yeah also it's cool(?) that her and other members can laugh it off as a joke but it's really sad that's the reaction😭
I’ve also had an Ed for many years and I’m hope you’re getting the help and encouragement you need, it’s hard to get away from that stuff.
I remember two years back when i took a break from kpop due to the fact that kpop had made my eating disorder worse. I still keep my distance from kpop especially girl groups due to the comparesing i make with my own body. I'm currently not getting any professional help nor have i ever for my Ed so I'm just going on due to my own will of going forward. Tbh somi loosing weight was very hard for me i was just thinking what if i just started watching my weight again and i could look like her.
Fyi if you're gonna comment i use he/they pronouns and one desire of my Ed is to get a flat chest
I will never forget when I heard someone ask their fave to lose weight… the audacity 🤢
This video made me kind of emotional as someone who also struggled with an ED. It might be controversial but I also want to add that we should be critical even of the words of idols who say they have not had to diet unhealthily. This is not to say that you should body shame them at all and do not flood their messages with stuff about this, but just because someone says that you shouldn’t be concerned about how underweight they are in an industry where everything they say is monitored and they risk losing their job if they start a controversy doesn’t mean you should believe that and move on. I’m not going to say any names but just. Try to stay critical of the industry and check up on your faves even if they say there isn’t any problem. These could be the moments that you later think back on as ‘why didn’t I see it then?’. Fatphobia affects everyone.
I can’t help but remember when Wendy and Seulgi went out for ice cream with Taeyeon and she had to defend them to their manager cause they were on a diet. I also remember how people reacted when Wendy had a dramatic weight lose during Red Summer era or Sunmi too. Like y’all want skinny but you don’t want them too skinny
Excellent video, thanks for sharing your thoughts. We need more converations like this, not just in the kpop world but in general. Id say this was a tough one to make. You've got yourself a new subscriber.
i always hate to admit it, but k-pop has fueled my ed :/
Same:(
Yep same 😭
Same
I love watching videos on kpop diet culture because it’s so fascinating how the kpop idol’s bodies can function whilst starving
Then they have to wear hip pads after ordered to lose weight?
like they want them to have protuding collarbones, small waists and thin arms and legs but also want them to have curves in the "right places" (wide hips and larger chests)? what the fuck.
this! pls consider making a longer in depth video abt this topic
now THIS was an insta-like
i will never forgive how kpop stans on twt absolutely bullied jeongyeon for gaining weight even tho they KNEW she had just had surgery and how the whole point of her hiatus was to get mentally and physically healthier.
Also I PITY those internet users who would post about the “perfect bodies” of their idols like why ?? I mean I know that you want to appreciate your idols,body type but from my experience every time you would post something about your idol there will be one human that would start comparing themselves from the unrealistic beauty standards that can only be achieved by torturous methods !!
so by ur logic if someone worked hard for a body they like, they can’t show it on sns bc apparently it’s their fault for looking pretty and they’re responsible for others insecurities. that’s absolute bullshit. they’ll still be insecure if their idols’ “perfect” bodies (in their opinion) aren’t shown, they would just shift to other people like models or even their friends. stop making up random problems
I particularly hate Jeongyeon's situation because I slightly relate to it. I've been naturally skinny my whole life but at some point I changed some medication I was taking and gained 10 kg thoughout the span of a few months. The amount of comments I got from people about the fact I gained weight was ridiculously annoying. Even tho I gained weight, as you said about some idols, I was still considered "skinny" just not as much as before, and that was enough for some people to be shitty. I went back to my old medication and lost the weight again and people started congratulating me lmao wtf. I could only feel bitterness from that praise especially from people who haven't seen me in a while and who didn't know the reason behind my fluctuating weight had nothing to do with exercise/diet. At the end of the day I have this just as an excruciatingly annoying memory and the people who made comments about my body were family members, friends and classmates, I can't imagine someone like Jeongyeon or anyone else in the industry getting these type of comments being 10x more rude and nasty and from thousands of people, it must be hell.
That fucking sucks I’m so sorryyy ;0
THANK YOU FOR THIS!
‘Skinny privilege isn’t real’ people actually said that?!?!?
I started getting body dysmorphia bc of kpop without realizing it. It all started with me wanting to look slim like them and I got into counting calories and boy did it mess me up I ended up losing so much weight a bit too fast and of course most came back. Then I just stopped counting and stopped looking in the mirror at my body as much (sometimes i catch myself at times but I’m doing much better) and just decided it’s not worth it. I try to at least eat more balance diet but I can’t give up sweets lol. I’m much better now and I’m leaner after working out with weights but it took many years of trying to find the best way to properly diet and such. Instead now I drink tons of water and incorporate lots of veggies and good carbs. I occasionally eat junk food but way less sweets and I maintained my figure for a while now. I’m also a body type that is easy to look obsesw if I gain even a few pounds so I stopped comparing. Taller people with longer torsos give the illusion to look slim but people like me could never get that slim even if we tried what Mono did before her debut.. Body acceptance is hard and comparing ur body to others isn’t good either bc how we re build us totally different. Plus kpop idols get their pics photoshopped anyways so it might not always be real.
I can't believe the comments you got. I'm in ED recovery and I just wanna say recovery is so worth it to anyone who is struggling. And it is okay to take time off of Kpop of that is something that triggers you. We have to put ourselves first, and thank you for making this a topic to discuss. I love your channel and appreciate you a lot
Love it!! Spitting facts right there 👍🏾
Ps. Also a fan on they are just skinny video it really made me think and open my eyes to many things,I needed that video,please keep blasing us with your contents.
Thank you for speaking up. On this and everything else
let’s be real-the standard isn’t “skinny”, it’s “underweight” but we’re so desensitized to it we see it as normal :/
This isn’t even fat phobia at this point it’s just normal body looking phobia and madly obsession with being very skinny
THIS!!! SKINNY PRIVILEGE IS REAL. Ex.1: Kyla from Pristine!!
I really like your videos bc i try to train my english, and your argumentation is always interesting (moreover on subject that I like!)
I personally think that idols look the prettier when they are healthy...i hope that 'standards of beauty' will disappear or may be more inclusive
Thanks from France 🇫🇷❤
THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO!
How can I like this video a million times?!!?
One of the best TH-cam videos I’ve seen in my life
every point made was 100% correct, ty for this video
Twice girls went through so much shit , its kind of a miracoe they are all still there and all together.
you're absolutely right and you should say it. thank you
i'm so happy for jihyo not because she got thin, no. because jihyo worked slowly and healthily for the body she wants. she still has energy now and she looks happy and healthy. and i'm very jealous because everytime i want to lose weight i turn to disordered eating because in my fucked up brain only depriving myself is the only thing that works.
This is going to be a little controversial, but I think some of these idols also play a major role in this connversation. I don't completely blame idols, since I'm aware that they're victims of the industry and toxic standars too. But I find it very triggering whenever I'm ejoying some of my faves content and every 5 minnutes there's a mention about dietinng, weightloss, weightgain, etc. Or whenever some of these idols openly (and with lots of detail) talk about their unhealthy diets, are they not aware that lots of young people look up to them? Or that some of their fans would do anything to look like them?
I don't completely blame them, but they should be more careful and responsable with their words.
you talking about people with addictions being preached for being skinny made me recall a story from a woman who was praised for looking so healthy when she was addicted to heroin, just because she was so skinny. it is exactly the kind of mentality kpop stans have towards their faves.
also, for all the people who say stuff like "everyone should dress up for their body" when saying not all idols are fashionable, they're just skinny, would these people ever consider saying this to a skinny person. no. because everything looks 'good' on a skinny person. only fat people need to dress up for their body. and this goes even for everyday clothes like t-shirt and jeans. only on a fat person would those clothes be considered lazy and unflattering.
I will be honest last year I tried to lose weight by using horrible methods like I would starve myself or I would feel guilty when I ate something… it was all because there was this mindset for me that people will only like you if you’re skinnier !! I used to do exersice everyday and when I noticed that nothing good is coming out from my “eating methods” I stopped and thought to myself that who am I trying to please by doing all of this? Nobody cares!! And I’m just going against my heart by doing this !! So I stopped !! My first new year resolution was that I’d lose weight but not by starving myself but by giving my body enough nutrients so that it doesn’t suffer because at the end of the day only you are there for you not someone you idolise !!
Thank you for covering this topic! more people should actually listen.
Sometimes I have to give up kpop stuff cuz they are too skinny and it makes me feel insecure :(
thank you for the tw
He video of momo and dahyun made me tear up, they were literally abused
It really feels like it's a badge of honor or something to Korean netizens. Like because their fave idols dieted it's like it legitimizes their work ethic to them. NO! These companies are terrible!!
I have to say, yes i also wanted to look like these idols. But then i realized that EVEN if i would reach this body type i wouldn‘t look healthy. I can‘t reach this body type because my height is 1.71cm, also i‘m european. Ngl im happy about understanding that it‘s stupid to compare myself to them. At the moment i‘m losing weight healthy and i‘m feeling good about it. (i‘m really fat so that‘s why i‘m losing weight,, for my health )