Why dual extrusion matters - First look at the Prometheus System!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- The time is now! Dual- and Multiextrusion have always been around, but never really caught on. This year, we're going to see a whole lot more of it and more sophisticated solutions, too!
Prometheus System Kickstarter www.kickstarter.com/projects/...
Models shown:
Pet monster Valentine by Andreas Böhler www.thingiverse.com/thing:17204
Two Color World by m6mafia www.thingiverse.com/thing:11660
Dice with coloured dots (Dual Extrusion) by PolygonPusher www.thingiverse.com/thing:21842
2-color standing cat by nervoussystem www.thingiverse.com/thing:62536
SIMPLE PROPELLERS by davidbec08 www.thingiverse.com/thing:94003
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Tom, I really appreciate your videos, as a 66 year old retired engineer interested in 3D printing and drones you have been a primary influence in my life. I do many things to keep my mind active and engaged as it was when I was truly working. 3D printing and all the processes behind and in it fascinate me. From manipulating firmware, hardware, and software and actually creating 3D models I have found myself fully engaged. You being a native German speaker but firmly established in the English language have done a wonderful job communicating the subject to English speakers and I truly appreciate that. I know it takes a boatload of work to do what you do and feel like you deserve more appreciation. Though I was disappointed in the end of your live show on the Scienci mill I do understand your frustration and why you abruptly ended it. I hope you do produce a full review on that product because I am interested. Good luck in your future endeavors! John
delanjp It’s awesome is in it? What a good hobby. And keeps you thinking to solve problems, thinking about efficiency and so on.
I know I'm replying to an old comment but I have to say that I love how even when you are retired, you continue engineering as a hobby. I love people who have a passion for their craft. It's inspiring.
6 years later dual extrusion is still not a big thing. Crazy that time flies so fast.
Interesting re-watching this six years later.
I love how thorough you are with the questions we should be asking for the various applications.
This looks like a VERY interesting system and I cannot wait to see you put it to use. Very curious about the stringing you showed and if it can get past that.
An excellent description of these issues, you even brought up some stuff I hadn't heard of. Thanks Tom!
Wow this is really cool, such a simple concept compared to existing dual extrusion systems. Great idea I think.
It is hilarious that you posted this... Last week I was contemplating sending you a message asking about "Is dual worth it"....
You are the man!
This does look like a very interesting solution Tom, I'll be keeping my eye on it for sure.
Id love to see you do a review when it's complete.
BTW My Prusa i3 MK2 is an awesome machine, it continues to impress.
Great review and in depth explanation of this product :)
Hey Thomas, I've just discovered your channel, and I'm really learning a lot from your videos. I have previously 3D printed several times, but I never really got into the nitty gritty of it. I just ordered my first 3D printer - the Creality CR-10S, and I'm super excited for it to come. Excited to see more videos from you :) keep up the great work!
Prometheus: *exists
Chinese manufacturers: Its free real estate
Coronavirus: hold on I'm talking brother
Great video. The problem with the disolvable supports,. or any case where different materials are used for supports, is finding two materials that will adhere while printing. This is proven to be the bane of making these things happen because one formulation will stick to one base material, but not another. There's, it seems, no one-size-fits-all solution as yet.
Awesome. Best video so far. Thanks for sharing.
good info on the dual extruder , and helping to understand some of the issues. thanks
man that was so informative. you are a pro. cheers
As always info I can trust. Thanks brother! Cheers!
this was 2-3 years ago but I love dual extrusion so much! I never had one but the possibilities are endless! I'm MOSTLY Intrested in TPU and PLA or PETG pla etc combinations and even more awesome water soluble filaments! I hope this catches on more in the future :) I already have bought an anycubic anyway ;3
can you shoot a video of this system working? doesn't have to be in a printer; just the filament switching
Doing multicolor printing doesn't really interest me at this time but, the ability to accurately print support interface layers with PVA does. Could you please do a segment using this kind of setup and the procedure for PVA interface structures?
I love how as you said it was illegal you looked to the side as if checking with some secret agent that you were in the clear!
Looks like a winner. Will be watching in the coming year. Ohh . been 4yr. :8
Will there be a review of this system... would be nice to see it work on your i3 (included the needed steps to make it work).
The workflow with the slicer would also be interessting to see.
I have a custom large prusa with that type of bowden extruder, but only one of itit has MANY torque and it will grind a filament if you are going to fast. After this video, i'll buy a second one, probably buy or replicate this desing and hope it works!
Great info Thomas! Thanks!
welll 4 years on.. You Guessed Wrong :-)
Tom I find this very interesting, could we get a video of you installing and printing with this system? Possibly next Sunday's live stream? ;)
your a ledge man keep it up. love your advice
You can tell by the ambient noise/music, this was a serious video!
Great video as always, this is a really interesting system. How much print time do you have on the Prometheus system? Did you see anything that would potentially cause problems?
Hey Tom,
when using e3d cyclops, can't you retrieve some mm of idle filament, so there is no ozzing of that during printing the other? using g-code commands in between
Thank you so much for this video. I need to ask how can I add the second extruder for the control board. I am working in anet a8. Thank you
Hey Tom,
I have been following you for a while and love your channel.
I know this is an old video but I'm hoping you can provide some help. You mention in the video that the strings can be handled with some g-code in the slicer. What does the code do? I'm trying to set up dual extrusion on my hypercube and have the exact problem of the strings jamming in the entrance of an all metal heat break. Help from anyone what be great. Thanks in advance.
I printed that cat model on my dual extruder printer before I calibrated it. I turned out with about a 2mm gap on the x axis between the colours. It did look cool but was a nightmare to tune in. This hotend looks like it could be a better solution altogether.
Very interesting! I've been looking at dual extrusion for a while now and was thinking about getting the GEEETECH A10M but if I can order this and stick it on my Creality Cr-10s, why should I get a new printer? How easy would setup to the Cr-10s board be?
Quick question, do you store your filiment on those wall racks? I usually keep mine in the bags with silica packs to avoid water absorbstion
Can't wait to get mine. Even if its experimental and not recommended according to their page, I have large format printer with an e3d volcano thats just begging for a 2 in 1 out upgrade. I'm right there with you on the water soluble support. Shipping should be any week now...
I have a diamond extruder clone on the shelf, do you Hehe any tutorial video on how to set up slic3r/cura for multiple extruders? How to set the waste to tower, more specifically.
Keeping that studio mighty chilly! How about some pasties for the next one? :) Cheers!
Hey, please make a video with 2 filaments and 1 extruder- cant find it and dont know how to do it... tried a few things but it didnt work... :(
can you do a review/tutorial of the diamond hotend?
As I was watching I was thinking to comment that this has been done before by a few people (my self included). But after reading the comments I see that there are a ton of similar designs of this concept already out there. I have only been able to do this on the lite 6 because there's no re-entry problem but now I see the I can constrain the filament as it cools and use it on a v6. I'll need to try it and as always great video.
is this the sametechnology used in the prusa i3 mk2? I assume it uses a similar idea since there seems to be a motor as well
Hey Thomas, Enjoy your videos and using it to get up to speed with the 3d printing system. I am late to the game! Very curious, this video was from almost 5 years ago. How is the dual extruder doing? Thanks!
We print some parts from Polyflex/PLA or Ninjaflex/PLA we use Cartesio W printer. The original extruders didn't print ninjaflex at all, after lots of trials and errors we ended up with two bondtech extruders. Because we use flexible filaments we can't use bowden type extruders. We have ordered Lulzbot TAZ 6 with dual nozzle but haven't received it yet...It probably took half a year fiddling to get the prints high enough quality so we could use them.
+Thomas Sanladerer Fuck ya man!!! Your my hero when it comes to 3d printing!!! I plan on setting up dual extrusion once I can get my pain in the ass (hictop prusa i3) printer working. Do you think the multi-material-upgrade will work fine with dissolvable support material?
If you wanted to use two materials that have different printing temperatures, you'd have to wait for the hotend to cool down or heat up while it switches though.
I have a similar setup with my SeeMeCNC Rostock Max V3. It is currently still in beta, but the Y-connector works the same way. My main problem is that because the tool change retraction is around 110mm that I find the filament can fall off the spool after a tool change. As this happens more and more, the filament eventually gets tangled and hung which causes the extruder to grind away as the print fails. I am getting some ideas on solving this, but this is a real pain since it can take many hours before this problem arises and it also varies depending on how much filament is in the spool.
is that extra power from the stepper motors enough to push flexible filaments?
Also purchased a pallet+. It did work, but if you printed a small print, the purge block was huge and wasteful. Mosaics reply was print it much larger or print many of the same thing. The problem was that it fused the same length of filament regardless of the amount required. If you only needed a tiny amount on the print, you wasted two feet of filament on the purge block!
As a suggestion you should take a look at the Felix Pro1 3D printer. This machine has also dual extrusion. What makes this printer special is that the two hotends are moving away from the model back and fort. Not seen this kind of technique before in other brands. When a hot end has nothing to do is swaps away and cools down a little bit, so no leaking or bouncing problems.
will you be testing it on a E3D v6 hot end? With so many of them out there we want to know how it works on the extruder system
I got a Flyingbear P902 and i saw a few people in the FB group having dual extrusion already. it's a topic I want to write and talk about but I don't think I will try it myself.
is the priming tower solid? couldn't it be used for high density infill?
Tom, what do you think about the dual x carriage approach, like the BCN3D Sigma?
As someone just entering 3d printing, in regards to the leaking hotends... That is only because the hole is on the bottom. With all the control systems on these, it would seem to be trivial to just rotate the hotend to be pointing up slightly when not in use. This would also help with detaching from the print to move to a new location, as less sideways motion would be required to perform that separation, thus avoiding any potential issues (which I've seen discussed in other videos) from the sideways force generated there.
As I haven't had a chance to actually work with a printer extensively, there are things I might be missing that make this less of a sensical assertion and I would appreciate being filled in, were that the case.
Hello friend, I am activating 2 extruders, when I move the E0 + 10mm extruder from the screen when I move the E1 I see those 10mm that moved the E0, is it normal? I want them to move independently or is there any command for that ?, thank you very much for your response.
Interesting ideas, has multi material progressed any by now 2018?
Tom I know this is an older video, finally 2 years into 3D printing I am starting to do more multi color prints and I am wondering if this system is still available or if there is an updated system like this out there. I would like to stick with a single hotend system
I'm getting a Monoprice Mini soon, would this be able to be attached to it easily as well? I heard that it's extruder replacement was easy, but I am a novice so this is uncharted territory for me.
any thoughts on the raise3d N series printers?
i dont know a whole lot about dual extrusion but with that Y adapter that brings two to one could you technically print a 3-1 or 4-1 and use 2 more steppers with those extruders and have a tri-extrusion, or quad-extrusion?
Tommy can you make an experiment video on an idea about making a printer controller with the WeMos D1 esp32 (since Marlin 2.0 supports esp32) and ramps uno shield (since it's compatible with the WeMos D1 board)
Thank you for the video Tom! Like dark alchemist already mentioned there's heavy ringing on the parts... have you actually printed anything with the Prometheus?
just now getting into 3d printing, one major draw back to this system is that you can't use different nozzles for example .4 for the outside then 1.0 for the infill, I'm not sure why this doesn't get more attention since it is sort of supported by cura through some fiddling.
Just an idea about leveling dual extruders on Z axis. For everyone who is struggling. It is really near impossible to level them properly, so I just used a high grit sandpaper between bed and lower nozzle to make it right. i used 1000-2000 grit, which is really thin. Works beautifully ever since then and is perfectly even now. Not sure why no one came out with that, this was the first I thought and did it immediately :)
Wait, so can I just replace the extruder on my 3d printer (Tronxy x5s)?
Seems cool.
Do you plan on doing a test video in the near future ?
I take your reviews as very informative especially when you test things !
Sure but as the funders should receive their product in November, i was thinking that the prototype should be very close to the first batch of products. And the claim of it being a revolutionary system should be put to the test, dont you think? To detect any major flows. The goal would be to help people deciding whether they should support the project or not, by "estimating" the level of possible deception...
This video surely let me a good feeling about this system but I WANT MORE :p
To deal with infill for priming nozzles:
Calculate amount of priming needed on each layer
Compare that to amount of infill that is possible to put in model
If too much priming needed: build column with appropriate diameter to put the filament in (also varying infill for that column, but tbh it shouldn't have to be nearly as big as the amount of wastefulness that is used now)
Hello you explain with a double ejector wn one Prusa i3 or marlin to implement in my printer I have all the material but I thank complicated programming.
Man, do you got the project of this acrílic extruder?
Hello friend. I like your videos and i learning alot from them i even make my own 3d printer but now i want to use more than one exrtuders but i can not site it up in cura. Allways some problem with parking and cooling place. Can u show us how to site it up and start printing with it. Best regards
the real advantage i can see in a dual printer is to print with water solve support material; because basics 3d prints have a terrible finishing comparing to injected plastic industries can make. To make a professional 3d printed piece you will need to prime, sand and paint it. But for the ones who uses a dual printer for any reason, thats a really good improvement.
Can you combine multiples of the Y chambers together to get more than two materials?
Tom did you tried e3d cyclop?
I'm new to the world of 3D printing, is this somthing I could incorperate into my Rostock max v2?
Flux capacitor came with this idea first and it is from 2014. www.thingiverse.com/thing:301982
+Cláudio Sampaio That is true that the idea is not new, but our implementation of this idea with The Prometheus System is the real innovation that allows it to actually work reliably and produce great results.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it! ;)
Quick on the trigger... Nice to see you here Patola.
I see that your design is open, I only complained about it because I feared it could be patented and thus blocked for others to use. I apologize for that and I also wish good luck on it.
I have a 2-in-1 hotend that works like the Prometheus that you show (Aibecy 2 in 1 Out Dual Color Metal Hotend Extruder Kit, from Amazon). My problem is the slicer program ( Cura) does not feed the material back in the same every time. It doesn't matter what I put in the Gcode, it still does the same thing. Any advice?
Can you install it on a ender 3?
Can I hook this up to the predator Anycube. I really want a fail extruder single nozzle system. And I need the large printing base. To make the parts I want to make.
Thumbs up and thank you.
I guess you could do 4 materials and more
With that guide for the filament.
having trouble setting up my Cyclops extruder thinking of installing 2 thermometers and jumpering E1 to E0 this way they will both still run without pissing around with Marlin 2.0.0
nice... could this system even be expanded to more than just dual filaments? like 3 or 4? :-)
one of the downsides not mentioned in this video was the water of material into the prime tower every time there is a filament switch. on small parts you could be wasting more material than on your prints.
Does the peek guide inserted in the hotend, limit hotend's temperatures similar to E3D Lite6 where you can't go over 240-250C without creating dangerous fumes?
According to Google, Peek's glass transition temp is only 143C.
*****
Oh cool, thanks for the reply! :)
Will you be doing a review of it in it's current form ?
Well.... possibly more a pre-review :p
when you are covering dualextusion, i'm really curious what u think about the palette ( www.mosaicmanufacturing.com ). Maybe even a review?:P
compare this to the pallet ? It is cheaper that is obvious but what is more precise ?
I found the music hugely distracting from a really neat commentary. One of the reasons I like your channel so much is for your comments...please can the funeral music (and where should i send flowers?) =)
Awesome commentary! Background music choice was excellent also. Fits well.
This is actually pretty awesome and it sounds super legit.
I'm less worried about the hot end or extruder setup and more about soluble support materials, particularly ones that are compatible with PLA or PET-G. It seems like folks don't have much luck trying to stick PLA to PVA or HIPS, and there's very little info on whether PET-G (my current fav material) fares any better. I've heard some people are experimenting with using PLA itself as a soluble support and washing it away with lye, but that has some pretty obvious downsides like washing away your skin along with it.
Will the A8 printer controller support a Dual extruder? If it can not, can I update the controller? Thanks!
I don't think the board it comes with has a second connection for another extruder, so no. You'd have to replace your board with one that has two.
So it looks like i can make it at home. Just need that peek barrel instead of my ptfe in lite 6
+Karan Chaphekar It is a little more complicated than that. I would recommend reading through all of the details on the campaign page to understand the difficulties involved :) Thanks!
Will this be compatible with an e3d v6 hotend?
any news on the dual extruder market ?
Hm. I believe when I see it. Right now I find the BCN3D SIGMA system much more convincing. Would love to see a review of it btw.
Nice Video. But would be even nicer, if it was stated, that the prometheus system is "only" the feeding nozzle / extruder part FOR a printer, and not a complete printing system. :)
(I really hope I did not miss you saying this! :) )
Cheers
Do you think it would be possible to run dual Prometheus systems, allowing 4 different materials to be used? Say to be crazy, a pva, fibre, pla and abs?
Booker DeWitt i think e3d kraken
I think you just described the Prusa multimateriial upgrade..
Of you program it right you probably could. That's a cool idea.
You think this system is light enough to work well on a delta?
Can you use this on the ender three