Klingons in Beta Canon ripped down the Orion Empire. And in STO timeline, Klingons basically "subjugate" the Gorn. Though the way the Klingons did it. The Klingons wiped out the Gorn leadership that would not surrender and the rest of the Gorn fell in line with the Klingon Empire. Though subjugated is a strong word. Gorn are equal members within the Empire and honored warriors.
I find that till the events of praxis they were near the top. But they suffered from hyper militaristic focus. By the 24th century they have lost their ship qualitative advantage. Take it they have more ships than the Romulans. I do believe by the Gowron era Klingons and Romulans are equal in strength. I still remember the star trek next generation episode defector when it was the Klingon ships who saved the enterprise from the Romulans so they are not to weak in the later eras.
The Kamarag is probably one of the best Klingon ships designs from STO. It's a very fitting intermediate between the K'tinga & Vor'cha. I find comparison with the French Clemenceau-class carrier. The first of its type from domestic production in decades but still far behind its peer powers. Though still able to fulfill some needed purposes. I wonder how well a Kamarag would do against a Cardassian Galor (Pre-Dominion War)?
To think about it after you brought up the Klingon Cardassian war I don't understand why Klingons wasn't using them but was using older models of war ships. With the K'tinga and Bird of Pray holding their own the Kamarag would have held i's own since it was more top of the line. Even in the Dominion war it didn't look like any was used.
@@neganrex5693 probably because the Vor'cha was being built in sufficient numbers and had the same kind of battlefield role. The Klingon Empire could build enough Vor'cha's to shore up their lines.
@@neganrex5693 Yeah and they're meant for the same reason, to replace the previous generation. The Kamarag largely replaced the K'tinga as flagship, and then the Vorcha did that to the Kamarag and then the Negh'var did that to the Vorcha. Over time the Vorcha became more used than the Kamarag due to Decommission of the Kamarag, destructions of the Kamarag vessels and the fact they weren't being built anymore.
I just was working on a Lost Era Klingon ship this morning, inspired by a Trekyards video on the D-10 The Khitomer Treaty meant no L-24s to counter the growing Excelsiors and Novas. So, my concept was the D-10I Refit. Take the D-10s intended for Mothballs, and the engines intended for those L-24 Battleships. Mount the bigger warp engines, and add *two* of the bigger Impulse Engines on the Aft Dorsal Hull (that flat area). Upgrade all the Disruptors to the KD-13, and move them around to add two more forward Torpedo Tubes. Then mothball the non-refit D-10s. The result is 133% heavier, Class XII instead of X - equal to the V-30, and the new Constellation, and not much lighter than the battleships.
The Kamarag is a product of its environment. For starters it didn't need to be as big as an Ambassador because it wasn't loaded down with scientific equipment and anthropologist...it was a pure warship. As I've said before the Romulans went big for the intimidation factor. As for their tech it would make sense that it would be a step behind everybody else. The German navy was building ships with design features from the 1920's that everybody else had moved on from because they were able to still build ships.
yeah looking at it Kamarag and Vmelak have a lot in common although the Vmelak has way more firepower. but equally i wouldn't say Kamarag is a pure warship like the Ktinga. its more genralised.
I would respecfully make a small correction here. The German were not behind technologically speaking, but conceptually. They could not test new concepts or experiment the way the British, Americans and Japanese coule for a decade and a half. So, when the time came to design and build new capital ships (Sharnhorst and Bismarck classes) they had no choice but to base their designs on the previous Mackensen and Bayern classes, respectively.
Sounds like exactly the kind of ship the Klingons needed. It was within their technological/industrial limits for large scale construction, advanced the state of the art in terms of design, and was significantly more capable than its predecessors. The lessons from both its successes and failures would be highly influential in the next few decades. Unfortunately, several design decisions proved problematic and the Romulans proved aggressive before the issues could be fully worked through. Yes, even at its size the Kamarag would be quite useful considering that the Excelsior Class was still in service many years later. It is a good looking ship though, especially considering its place in the design lineage. Hopefully someone designs a fully size adjusted version of the Giant BOPs (the K'Vort class) from TNG. I would suggest that the (in universe) reason we don't see any in TNG is that they are off at more active borders of the Empire, the Klingons aren't planning on fighting the Federation after all whereas they have the Romulans on one border, the Cardassians on another and who knows what powers on the opposite side of the Empire from the Federation.
yeah as i said it had a decent matchup against excelsior a ship that was already 40 years old. and yeah there's plenty of places a Kamarag could be especially considering that in TNG and DS9 we are often seeing the best of the klingon fleet.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That was partially for those who comment before watching the video. Also, even if we are seeing elite portions of the fleet from a training and efficiency standard that doesn't mean that in early TNG (the period this ship would be one of the most modern in the fleet as we haven't seen the brand new Vor'cha yet) we are seeing the most powerful formations. The Federation isn't exactly an immediate threat to the Empire after all, they have other fights to win glory in. I wouldn't entirely mind a remastered version of "The Defector" where these replace the K'Vort though, they actually look about the right size unlike the BoP model actually used. By DS9/Late TNG the quite new Vor'cha would have replaced it in the Heavy Cruiser/Battlecruiser role and its a bit too big for the Destroyer role (the K'tinga takes that spot, being as it is volumetrically only a little bit larger than Sabre) while being underpowered for a Light Cruiser (not a good match against an Intrepid equivalent in any way shape or form) and it probably hasn't had the chance to be fully modernized yet (unlike the BoP/K'tinga) so it is sitting on the same far borders as these are now the quiet areas. It basically gets the same treatment USS Ranger and various old and slow battleships did in WWII, useful, but not for fighting enemy fleets in the main arenas of the war. Mid TNG is when the Klingon shipbuilding industry is just hitting its stride again with the new Vor'cha and the Negh'var classes.
The one Klingon Battlecruiser that has been a punching bag for too long, but a good contender to the old Excelsior. The Klingons did what they can do with what they have available to build the class.
The design certainly does look like an intermediate between the K'Tinga and the Vor'cha, so I like it from that perspective. It is funny how, after the Kamarag gets outclassed by the Ambassador and Vemelek, that history repeats itself with the Vor'cha. Not long after the Vor'cha comes out, the Federation comes out with the Galaxy, and the Romulans come out with the D'Deridex, and the Klingons on are on the back foot again.
i play STO and is planing to use the Kamarang as a hero Ship in my YT vids sometime in the future. I love the ship its Among my favorite Klingon Ships so WHATS with the Hate man........cant wait to take a look.
Could have sworn there was a ship like it in Klingon Academy. EDIT: Here we go, Warrior's Anger or SuvwI'Qeh-class. I thought it was supposed to be a call back to this thing.
I don't play STO but I did come across this design a few years ago and love the design. I think it's a great K'tinga successor ship and think it fits better in the STVI+ era moreso than the "lost era".
STO is a pretty good melting pot. It did have a very rough start and it had growing pains. Though they pressed on and it is a good game. Some game play elements are still rough but ship-to-ship combat is pretty good.
@@Qardo Frankly the combat it's still bad, a click fest like most MMO-s, i would have loved the more restrained approach of Bridge Commander. Alas STO is the best we got at the moment and it will have to do.
i see you are a sto player. i dabble in it myself. another great video. especially the artwork. it is clear to me that the kamarag is the prime example of just how badly the praxis moon's destruction hurt the klingons. economically forced to sign a treaty that literally cut their balls of for 20 years of non-development of their favorite weapons. then when they are finally able to do so, they find themselves 20 years behind in experience to build their favorite weapons. and finding out their most powerful ship doesn't match up to their biggest rivals. and dealing with political turmoil. it's amazing that the empire held together, considering we're talking about a period between about 2290 to 2371, all the way up to the dominion war. and honestly past that
not myself though a lot of my friends are. i just watch it for the ships. well from 2344 Kmpec was in charge and held things together. but otherwise yeah things were pretty unstable.
My old wrestling coach used to say that "If all you can say about someone is that; They "did their best", then really, all you are saying is that their "best" still wasn't good enough". He actually used to tell us to never insult someone by saying that "they did their best"... I think that Coach G's sentiment applies here.
In universe story makes sense, the Klingons have lost a large percentage of their energy production and wealth, this has mentally hurt their cultural mentality ( think of the Germany in-between the world wars and the Russians in the 1990s and early 2000s), I know that has been said before. That said when someone is developing new technology or designs not everything will work out perfectly. And that is how they learn to improve them. But at this point in their history they need new ship designs to protect their borders so they were rushed to the front lines, similar to the American M3 tank during World War II. It along with the K'Vort class bird of prey are stop gap measures. And in practice, it is like a real world battle cruiser, it seems designed to not fight peer opponents but to hunt and kill lesser ships.
I think the Kamarag would fare better if it weren't constantly being compared to the Excelsior and Ambassador. On its own it is a fairly formidable ship but the problem is that the ships it would be expected to face up against were better. A better move would have been to invest the time and resources into a B'Rel II instead of a next generation battlecruiser when Starfleet heavy cruisers were so overwhelmingly dominant in that period.
Klingons have the issue of being depicted as the "Bad Guys" of Star Trek. And getting the troupe of not being allowed to have cool powerful stuff. Though they do get a great clothing design and the best in fashion. But, tech, no. Though TNG and DS9 did try hard to help flesh out the Klingons within Alpha Canon. Beta Canon has done a far better job at making Klingons very respectable and more honorable than Romulans. Green-knife-eared petaQ.
My question is why doesn't any Star Trek cavillation have a fighter carrier like Galactica. It would seem a swarm of fighters and space bombers would be highly successful in planetary combat.
These are all the downsides of building catch-up machines. 20 years is a BIG gap when it comes to ship design and R&D, at bare minimum it's an entire generation behind as we saw. But they actually got that time back with the Romulan receding and the IFP's golden age as we see in late TNG and DS9.
I hope it's decent as a fleet variant since i almost prefer it to the K'tinga in terms of looks. Looks like a K'tinga modernization in line with the Lakota refit for the Excelsior.
You can use the Kamarag skin on any Vor'cha variant provided you have one unboxed from the mission 'Temporal Ambassador' - while there is a fleet Kamarag, it is only a tier 5 while the Vor'cha has a tier 6 variant.
04:30 ish - You could say the Klingons were out of practice, OR.... were they simply out of praxis... Sorry, not sorry *EDIT* I know this is a dumb joke, but rewatching this video (I had completely forgotten I ever made this joke) I immediately thought of this joke, went to type it out.... realized I already typed it 6 months ago..........." Well, at least my humor is consistent.
I've actually been designing a kamarag Mrk 2 that actually makes up for the original short comings as well as turns it in to a perfect standoff ranged destroyer and in close range makes it a disruptor battle cruiser but you have to use ether one tactic or the other as in close range the torpedoes would probably harm itself as well as the enemy.
I would have loved to see this ship on the older Star Trek shows but now they got to far out and crazy and I don't watch the newer shows much at all. Discovery really sucks and Picard is about as bad. I wished they gave him back to the Borg or get one shot by the Klingons or something.
The kamarang was introduced into STO as a bone thrown to KDF players when the ambassador class was added to the game, had the same BOFF seating and what not, in game a much better ship, could mount duel cannons and had a better turn rate. Something common at that time in the game, klingon cruisers just being better fighting ships in wile FED ships could like, tank better. Of course take it out of the game and put it into 'canon', and its the complete opposite. While the federation and romulans were building next gen battleships, the depleted klingons were just trying to get a next gen heavy cruiser built. Was likely plenty competitive at that weight class at the time, but a total miss match against the other great powers new largest designs. The excelsior, not ambassador, was likely the benchmark it was designed to compete with, a class that in the 2330s would be recently downgraded in status from a 'dreadnought' to say a 'large cruiser'. I think it would do better against it than you described, it should be more agile and just as fast being of much smaller displacement and combat focused, and this was a time when there was a revolution taking place in phaser tech and the excelsior's outdated ball turrets were just a lot of light secondary guns compared to any new class with phaser arrays. Then between 2350-2360, relations between the federation and empire could be described as friendly, and the klingons where in an even stronger position than they were in the 2290s. This time the vorcha was the the new design, and like the kamarang it too was likely bench-marked against the last generation dreadnoughts like the ambassador, they now has at least that industrial capacity. The vorcha and excelsior actually have almost the same tonnage/displacement, its not that large of a ship, but its not a general purpose explorer, its a warship so it doesn't need to be as large. Then only a decade or so later they could build the negvar, a ship to the scale of the other great power's finest. An interesting video topic could be a Venom-verse history of the klingon empire from praxis to the dominion war, the ups and down, squaring movie 6 against the status quo in tng and the impact of the enterprise C in relations, all of which always seemed a bit contradictory to me.
Ships like this always prove the comparison between Klingon building methods and the old Soviet style of war machine building. Great video as always VGM 👍
I really like the design, feels like the Klingon equivalent to the Ambassador-Class. I imagine the Enterprise C fought alongside a few of these during its final voyage
I always like seeing stuff filling in the 'Lost Era'. The take that the Kamarag was perhaps meant to be an enforcer against other Klingons as much or more than against foreign powers makes sense. Other than the Romulans, there weren't too many bullies out there to pick on the weakened Klingon Empire worse than they do to themselves. This indicative of Khitomer and the Klingons now seemingly doomed to be like a generation (and a half) behind the other two great powers in the local galactic neighborhood.
I found a huge Armada 1 mod, 149 mb. Borg Incursion Aftermath. It's amazing, so far hasn't crashed. Anyway, it has many ships in it. I'd bet that at least one of them is equivalent to or may even be Kamarag. This mod appears to be made around 2011ish. Oh, and I love Klingons like some love Romulans. Space Viking Bikers.
I sort of figured that with the treaty of alliance between the UFP and Klingons that there would be a technology trade. With the appearance of bussard collectors that could of been a tech the UFP could of given them, also new warp drives. So, this leads me to wonder; did the UFP have any sort of influence on Klingon ship designs? Also, on a different subject; what happened to all the cloaking devices the UFP used before the Tomed Incident? This might be a risky idea but; what if they were handed over to the Klingons? Hear me out, if the UFP are forbidden from using cloaks then why not give it to someone who would use them (Klingons, Cardassians, Breen)? It would definitely be something S31 would do to keep the regional powers fighting eachother than the UFP.
The Treaty of alliance wasn't signed until after 2344. so after the tomed incident in 2311 the klingons and federation weren't really close enough to warrent an exchange. not to say it didn't happen... (Officially)
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That's a fair point it was just a thought that perhaps the UFP would of in good faith given some tech to bolster the Klingons. I will say in faith that the UFP would of aided with terraforming Qu'nos after the Praxis incident. Spock did say that the Klingon homeworld was devastated by the explosion and had 50 years of life left to them.
Great video I always believe is better to have beam weapons that torpedoes you could have a 360 degree firing ark but with torpedoes a ship depending the race is limited of space inside of the ship also having torpedoes inside is a possible disaster a good well shoot could damage or blow the hell of a ship that's why i think Romulan and Cardassians ships are better of with out torpedoes or if they have to use them in limited quantities
The talent gap is mirrored by the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russia, immediately in the aftermath, could not maintain the ships they had, much less fund new vessels. They lost a generation of naval architects and shipbuilders. Also, the shipyards themselves seriously deteriorated, which is expected next to corrosive salt water and icy winters. When teh Russians restarted ship construction, they started with patrol boats and corvettes, retraining their engineers nad shipbuilders as well as rehabilitating their shipyards. Next they designed and built the next larger and more complex class, frigates. They had plans for a new destroyer and some conceptual designs for an aircraft carrier. However, Russia annexed the Crimea in 2014 and then got hit with international sanctions. Technically, they still have plans for the Lider-class destroyer and a new aircraft carrier, but it is repeated put off to the next planning cycle like clockwork. Personally, I do not see even new corvettes being produced anytime soon due to sanctions associated with the invasion of Ukraine.
yeah naval design and technology is extremely compettive. unlike ground capabilities which can be quickly upgraded or augmented to a modern. or near modern standard. its very hard to catch up with naval tech once you miss a step
I'm totally on your side VenomGeekMedia. When you have the Ktinga and the Vorcha what's the point of this ship. It's like creating a ship just to do it and not because it serves a purpose.
its worth saying that in the dominion war the K'tinga found a new niche and the klingons played into it. when this was built there was a need because the Ktinga just couldn't cut it any more
Well I kind of like the Kamarag class and it's new re-scale to match with the Vor'cha class as its predecessor and gives the Klingons some larger ships from the TMP Era and still use in active service with the B'rel class and the K't'inga class. With new re-scale of the Kamarag class, now it is in the same size or length range and a match with the Starfleet Excelsior class and Romulan Nova class. But very one has the right to give their opinion of whether they like the ship or not.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 The Vorcha looks more high tech anyway. I noticed the Feds are down sizing from the old Galaxy class. If anything I thought the Dominion war would have teach them a lesson in ships they need but I guess not. That's space hippies for you and if Riker, Janeway and Sisko have the biggest set in Starfleet it don't look good for the Feds and I won't even talk about Picard. Where is real captions like Archer and Kirk when you need them.
I like the look of the Kamarag it's like a sportier version of the Vor'cha. What I can't quire understand is the failure of the heavy disrupters are they very short range? Or too slow to fire?. Was this issue addressed in some way? Can you go a bit deeper into this in a later video as heavy disruptors continue to feature on Klingon ships into the 24th century.
of course as with all klingon designs they seem to be able refit the things with ease so they probably could give them upgrades to be able to be decent effectively what would be in the TNG era be a mid weight cruiser
You mentioned the Klingon's used Ship Guilds to build their ships and they had their specialized space frames and types for each one? Why does this sound like there should have been a cruiser or BoP guild named after Artem Mikoyan and Mikhail Gurevich. "This cruiser you're berthed on was made by the honorable guild of MiG." "Oh, so That's why I heard singing on the way over here!"
Got the Fleet version... And it's not the ship its the build! For instance I'm running a dirty Pax build putting out just shy of 200K Hull at 199.458K Hull Points Most T6 Fed can't get that high. Average dps is around 80-96k 123K crit! I play a Romulan Klingon and i have a lot of the old style Retro Klingon Fleet Retrofits.. Fleet Negh'Tev Fleet Somraw Fleet Qin Etc etc.... been playing the same toon since 2016 to put that into perspective... I've seen Lobi ships getting popped in advanced Borg TFO because its the build that's shit not the ship.
the kaiserflotte was basically just to protect Merchants but the brits got very very salty about it that anyone would try to Challenge them on the sea and it was so bad they allied with their mortal enemy the french
i'd disagree. in TOS i'd actually say they had an advantage in some areas like torpedoes and warp acceleration. they kept parity in the 70s and 80s enough to pose a very real military threat to the federation.
After watching the video I admit I kind of like a few things about it like the torpedo upgrade. I am a bit of a nut when it comes to torpedoes. I think it's in part because my father in law was carrier US Navy and fired the first naval surface to air and surface to surface Talos missiles in naval history and shot down two Mig Jet fighters in Vietnam and is in the history books so after years of his stories I think it rubbed off enough that I love naval missiles and torpedoes.
Poor Klingons, they always seem to be a step behind everyone else. Mind you, when they DO have cutting edge stuff they are SCARY.
Klingons in Beta Canon ripped down the Orion Empire. And in STO timeline, Klingons basically "subjugate" the Gorn. Though the way the Klingons did it. The Klingons wiped out the Gorn leadership that would not surrender and the rest of the Gorn fell in line with the Klingon Empire. Though subjugated is a strong word. Gorn are equal members within the Empire and honored warriors.
I find that till the events of praxis they were near the top. But they suffered from hyper militaristic focus. By the 24th century they have lost their ship qualitative advantage. Take it they have more ships than the Romulans. I do believe by the Gowron era Klingons and Romulans are equal in strength. I still remember the star trek next generation episode defector when it was the Klingon ships who saved the enterprise from the Romulans so they are not to weak in the later eras.
The Kamarag is probably one of the best Klingon ships designs from STO. It's a very fitting intermediate between the K'tinga & Vor'cha.
I find comparison with the French Clemenceau-class carrier. The first of its type from domestic production in decades but still far behind its peer powers. Though still able to fulfill some needed purposes.
I wonder how well a Kamarag would do against a Cardassian Galor (Pre-Dominion War)?
Early galors... you could but it would be a close fight ideally you'd use a vorcha or boreth
To think about it after you brought up the Klingon Cardassian war I don't understand why Klingons wasn't using them but was using older models of war ships. With the K'tinga and Bird of Pray holding their own the Kamarag would have held i's own since it was more top of the line. Even in the Dominion war it didn't look like any was used.
@@neganrex5693 probably because the Vor'cha was being built in sufficient numbers and had the same kind of battlefield role. The Klingon Empire could build enough Vor'cha's to shore up their lines.
@@Ragnarok3435-x5w That would make sense since the Vor'cha is a newer model of ship.
@@neganrex5693 Yeah and they're meant for the same reason, to replace the previous generation. The Kamarag largely replaced the K'tinga as flagship, and then the Vorcha did that to the Kamarag and then the Negh'var did that to the Vorcha. Over time the Vorcha became more used than the Kamarag due to Decommission of the Kamarag, destructions of the Kamarag vessels and the fact they weren't being built anymore.
I just was working on a Lost Era Klingon ship this morning, inspired by a Trekyards video on the D-10
The Khitomer Treaty meant no L-24s to counter the growing Excelsiors and Novas. So, my concept was the D-10I Refit.
Take the D-10s intended for Mothballs, and the engines intended for those L-24 Battleships. Mount the bigger warp engines, and add *two* of the bigger Impulse Engines on the Aft Dorsal Hull (that flat area). Upgrade all the Disruptors to the KD-13, and move them around to add two more forward Torpedo Tubes. Then mothball the non-refit D-10s.
The result is 133% heavier, Class XII instead of X - equal to the V-30, and the new Constellation, and not much lighter than the battleships.
Sweet lynn . Best of luck with it
@@shanenolan8252 Thanks. I just wish i had the photoshop skills to make it visually.
intresting idea you should check this out www.deviantart.com/syckoson/art/Klingon-D-10j-Kanjis-Battleship-832394082
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Interesting. They basically Vorcha'd it.
The Kamarag is a product of its environment. For starters it didn't need to be as big as an Ambassador because it wasn't loaded down with scientific equipment and anthropologist...it was a pure warship. As I've said before the Romulans went big for the intimidation factor. As for their tech it would make sense that it would be a step behind everybody else. The German navy was building ships with design features from the 1920's that everybody else had moved on from because they were able to still build ships.
yeah looking at it Kamarag and Vmelak have a lot in common although the Vmelak has way more firepower. but equally i wouldn't say Kamarag is a pure warship like the Ktinga. its more genralised.
I would respecfully make a small correction here. The German were not behind technologically speaking, but conceptually. They could not test new concepts or experiment the way the British, Americans and Japanese coule for a decade and a half. So, when the time came to design and build new capital ships (Sharnhorst and Bismarck classes) they had no choice but to base their designs on the previous Mackensen and Bayern classes, respectively.
@@jeancrepin7960 that was the basic idea I was trying to convey without getting too deep.
Sounds like exactly the kind of ship the Klingons needed. It was within their technological/industrial limits for large scale construction, advanced the state of the art in terms of design, and was significantly more capable than its predecessors. The lessons from both its successes and failures would be highly influential in the next few decades. Unfortunately, several design decisions proved problematic and the Romulans proved aggressive before the issues could be fully worked through. Yes, even at its size the Kamarag would be quite useful considering that the Excelsior Class was still in service many years later. It is a good looking ship though, especially considering its place in the design lineage. Hopefully someone designs a fully size adjusted version of the Giant BOPs (the K'Vort class) from TNG.
I would suggest that the (in universe) reason we don't see any in TNG is that they are off at more active borders of the Empire, the Klingons aren't planning on fighting the Federation after all whereas they have the Romulans on one border, the Cardassians on another and who knows what powers on the opposite side of the Empire from the Federation.
yeah as i said it had a decent matchup against excelsior a ship that was already 40 years old. and yeah there's plenty of places a Kamarag could be especially considering that in TNG and DS9 we are often seeing the best of the klingon fleet.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That was partially for those who comment before watching the video. Also, even if we are seeing elite portions of the fleet from a training and efficiency standard that doesn't mean that in early TNG (the period this ship would be one of the most modern in the fleet as we haven't seen the brand new Vor'cha yet) we are seeing the most powerful formations. The Federation isn't exactly an immediate threat to the Empire after all, they have other fights to win glory in. I wouldn't entirely mind a remastered version of "The Defector" where these replace the K'Vort though, they actually look about the right size unlike the BoP model actually used.
By DS9/Late TNG the quite new Vor'cha would have replaced it in the Heavy Cruiser/Battlecruiser role and its a bit too big for the Destroyer role (the K'tinga takes that spot, being as it is volumetrically only a little bit larger than Sabre) while being underpowered for a Light Cruiser (not a good match against an Intrepid equivalent in any way shape or form) and it probably hasn't had the chance to be fully modernized yet (unlike the BoP/K'tinga) so it is sitting on the same far borders as these are now the quiet areas. It basically gets the same treatment USS Ranger and various old and slow battleships did in WWII, useful, but not for fighting enemy fleets in the main arenas of the war.
Mid TNG is when the Klingon shipbuilding industry is just hitting its stride again with the new Vor'cha and the Negh'var classes.
The one Klingon Battlecruiser that has been a punching bag for too long, but a good contender to the old Excelsior. The Klingons did what they can do with what they have available to build the class.
The design certainly does look like an intermediate between the K'Tinga and the Vor'cha, so I like it from that perspective. It is funny how, after the Kamarag gets outclassed by the Ambassador and Vemelek, that history repeats itself with the Vor'cha. Not long after the Vor'cha comes out, the Federation comes out with the Galaxy, and the Romulans come out with the D'Deridex, and the Klingons on are on the back foot again.
i play STO and is planing to use the Kamarang as a hero Ship in my YT vids sometime in the future. I love the ship its Among my favorite Klingon Ships so WHATS with the Hate man........cant wait to take a look.
Could have sworn there was a ship like it in Klingon Academy.
EDIT:
Here we go, Warrior's Anger or SuvwI'Qeh-class. I thought it was supposed to be a call back to this thing.
I love the ship. It looks nice but it's definitely a ship of an era.
If Drachinifel made Star Trek content, it would sound like this.
I don't play STO but I did come across this design a few years ago and love the design. I think it's a great K'tinga successor ship and think it fits better in the STVI+ era moreso than the "lost era".
STO is a pretty good melting pot. It did have a very rough start and it had growing pains. Though they pressed on and it is a good game. Some game play elements are still rough but ship-to-ship combat is pretty good.
@@Qardo Frankly the combat it's still bad, a click fest like most MMO-s, i would have loved the more restrained approach of Bridge Commander. Alas STO is the best we got at the moment and it will have to do.
The game will be even better when Gearbox engine is implemented if they do it🖖
i see you are a sto player. i dabble in it myself.
another great video. especially the artwork.
it is clear to me that the kamarag is the prime example of just how badly the praxis moon's destruction hurt the klingons. economically forced to sign a treaty that literally cut their balls of for 20 years of non-development of their favorite weapons. then when they are finally able to do so, they find themselves 20 years behind in experience to build their favorite weapons. and finding out their most powerful ship doesn't match up to their biggest rivals. and dealing with political turmoil. it's amazing that the empire held together, considering we're talking about a period between about 2290 to 2371, all the way up to the dominion war. and honestly past that
not myself though a lot of my friends are. i just watch it for the ships. well from 2344 Kmpec was in charge and held things together. but otherwise yeah things were pretty unstable.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 killed by durass, with poison. Just like a p'taq!
My old wrestling coach used to say that "If all you can say about someone is that; They "did their best", then really, all you are saying is that their "best" still wasn't good enough". He actually used to tell us to never insult someone by saying that "they did their best"... I think that Coach G's sentiment applies here.
The Klingons have to play catch up with all of the other powers in the quadrants
In universe story makes sense, the Klingons have lost a large percentage of their energy production and wealth, this has mentally hurt their cultural mentality ( think of the Germany in-between the world wars and the Russians in the 1990s and early 2000s), I know that has been said before. That said when someone is developing new technology or designs not everything will work out perfectly. And that is how they learn to improve them. But at this point in their history they need new ship designs to protect their borders so they were rushed to the front lines, similar to the American M3 tank during World War II. It along with the K'Vort class bird of prey are stop gap measures. And in practice, it is like a real world battle cruiser, it seems designed to not fight peer opponents but to hunt and kill lesser ships.
I think the Kamarag would fare better if it weren't constantly being compared to the Excelsior and Ambassador. On its own it is a fairly formidable ship but the problem is that the ships it would be expected to face up against were better. A better move would have been to invest the time and resources into a B'Rel II instead of a next generation battlecruiser when Starfleet heavy cruisers were so overwhelmingly dominant in that period.
Klingons have the issue of being depicted as the "Bad Guys" of Star Trek. And getting the troupe of not being allowed to have cool powerful stuff. Though they do get a great clothing design and the best in fashion. But, tech, no.
Though TNG and DS9 did try hard to help flesh out the Klingons within Alpha Canon. Beta Canon has done a far better job at making Klingons very respectable and more honorable than Romulans. Green-knife-eared petaQ.
well i'd argue they actually had a tech advantage back in TOS. but yeah as time went on the gap widened... until you get to the dominion war.
My question is why doesn't any Star Trek cavillation have a fighter carrier like Galactica. It would seem a swarm of fighters and space bombers would be highly successful in planetary combat.
These are all the downsides of building catch-up machines. 20 years is a BIG gap when it comes to ship design and R&D, at bare minimum it's an entire generation behind as we saw. But they actually got that time back with the Romulan receding and the IFP's golden age as we see in late TNG and DS9.
I hope it's decent as a fleet variant since i almost prefer it to the K'tinga in terms of looks. Looks like a K'tinga modernization in line with the Lakota refit for the Excelsior.
You can use the Kamarag skin on any Vor'cha variant provided you have one unboxed from the mission 'Temporal Ambassador' - while there is a fleet Kamarag, it is only a tier 5 while the Vor'cha has a tier 6 variant.
@@HarperStl Hmm, didn't know that. Thanks i'll look out for it then :)).
04:30 ish - You could say the Klingons were out of practice, OR.... were they simply out of praxis...
Sorry, not sorry
*EDIT* I know this is a dumb joke, but rewatching this video (I had completely forgotten I ever made this joke) I immediately thought of this joke, went to type it out.... realized I already typed it 6 months ago..........." Well, at least my humor is consistent.
I've actually been designing a kamarag Mrk 2 that actually makes up for the original short comings as well as turns it in to a perfect standoff ranged destroyer and in close range makes it a disruptor battle cruiser but you have to use ether one tactic or the other as in close range the torpedoes would probably harm itself as well as the enemy.
Its a nice cross breed between vorcha and k'ting . Would love to see this canonnized .
I would have loved to see this ship on the older Star Trek shows but now they got to far out and crazy and I don't watch the newer shows much at all. Discovery really sucks and Picard is about as bad. I wished they gave him back to the Borg or get one shot by the Klingons or something.
The kamarang was introduced into STO as a bone thrown to KDF players when the ambassador class was added to the game, had the same BOFF seating and what not, in game a much better ship, could mount duel cannons and had a better turn rate. Something common at that time in the game, klingon cruisers just being better fighting ships in wile FED ships could like, tank better. Of course take it out of the game and put it into 'canon', and its the complete opposite.
While the federation and romulans were building next gen battleships, the depleted klingons were just trying to get a next gen heavy cruiser built. Was likely plenty competitive at that weight class at the time, but a total miss match against the other great powers new largest designs. The excelsior, not ambassador, was likely the benchmark it was designed to compete with, a class that in the 2330s would be recently downgraded in status from a 'dreadnought' to say a 'large cruiser'. I think it would do better against it than you described, it should be more agile and just as fast being of much smaller displacement and combat focused, and this was a time when there was a revolution taking place in phaser tech and the excelsior's outdated ball turrets were just a lot of light secondary guns compared to any new class with phaser arrays.
Then between 2350-2360, relations between the federation and empire could be described as friendly, and the klingons where in an even stronger position than they were in the 2290s. This time the vorcha was the the new design, and like the kamarang it too was likely bench-marked against the last generation dreadnoughts like the ambassador, they now has at least that industrial capacity. The vorcha and excelsior actually have almost the same tonnage/displacement, its not that large of a ship, but its not a general purpose explorer, its a warship so it doesn't need to be as large. Then only a decade or so later they could build the negvar, a ship to the scale of the other great power's finest. An interesting video topic could be a Venom-verse history of the klingon empire from praxis to the dominion war, the ups and down, squaring movie 6 against the status quo in tng and the impact of the enterprise C in relations, all of which always seemed a bit contradictory to me.
I've got a video on that next week
Ships like this always prove the comparison between Klingon building methods and the old Soviet style of war machine building. Great video as always VGM 👍
Unlike the Feds the Klingons believe if it works don't over fix it to much. With later models show they stick to their guns.
I really like the design, feels like the Klingon equivalent to the Ambassador-Class. I imagine the Enterprise C fought alongside a few of these during its final voyage
How come the kligons didn't use buzzard collectors in the 23rd century, what was the logic behind it?
Burst fire torpedo launchers...hmm.
I always like seeing stuff filling in the 'Lost Era'. The take that the Kamarag was perhaps meant to be an enforcer against other Klingons as much or more than against foreign powers makes sense. Other than the Romulans, there weren't too many bullies out there to pick on the weakened Klingon Empire worse than they do to themselves. This indicative of Khitomer and the Klingons now seemingly doomed to be like a generation (and a half) behind the other two great powers in the local galactic neighborhood.
I found a huge Armada 1 mod, 149 mb. Borg Incursion Aftermath. It's amazing, so far hasn't crashed. Anyway, it has many ships in it. I'd bet that at least one of them is equivalent to or may even be Kamarag. This mod appears to be made around 2011ish. Oh, and I love Klingons like some love Romulans. Space Viking Bikers.
That is a jerk move bro. Kamarag should get some love, it should have been the Ambasador counterpoint.
I sort of figured that with the treaty of alliance between the UFP and Klingons that there would be a technology trade. With the appearance of bussard collectors that could of been a tech the UFP could of given them, also new warp drives. So, this leads me to wonder; did the UFP have any sort of influence on Klingon ship designs? Also, on a different subject; what happened to all the cloaking devices the UFP used before the Tomed Incident? This might be a risky idea but; what if they were handed over to the Klingons? Hear me out, if the UFP are forbidden from using cloaks then why not give it to someone who would use them (Klingons, Cardassians, Breen)? It would definitely be something S31 would do to keep the regional powers fighting eachother than the UFP.
The Treaty of alliance wasn't signed until after 2344. so after the tomed incident in 2311 the klingons and federation weren't really close enough to warrent an exchange. not to say it didn't happen... (Officially)
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That's a fair point it was just a thought that perhaps the UFP would of in good faith given some tech to bolster the Klingons. I will say in faith that the UFP would of aided with terraforming Qu'nos after the Praxis incident. Spock did say that the Klingon homeworld was devastated by the explosion and had 50 years of life left to them.
Only civillian technology would be transfered. Obviously it can translate to military tech, but it needs time
Great video, always like stuff in the Klingons. I agree with you about this ship.
The Kamarag looks like a stepping stone between the K’Tinga and the Vor’Cha.
Great video I always believe is better to have beam weapons that torpedoes you could have a 360 degree firing ark but with torpedoes a ship depending the race is limited of space inside of the ship also having torpedoes inside is a possible disaster a good well shoot could damage or blow the hell of a ship that's why i think Romulan and Cardassians ships are better of with out torpedoes or if they have to use them in limited quantities
look closely at the torpedo launcher in STMP there are 6 torpedoes in that hole
Bear in mind it's sharing space with the deflector dish, so that's probably the deflector. Only the hole in the middle is torpedo tube.
The talent gap is mirrored by the collapse of the Soviet Union. Russia, immediately in the aftermath, could not maintain the ships they had, much less fund new vessels. They lost a generation of naval architects and shipbuilders. Also, the shipyards themselves seriously deteriorated, which is expected next to corrosive salt water and icy winters. When teh Russians restarted ship construction, they started with patrol boats and corvettes, retraining their engineers nad shipbuilders as well as rehabilitating their shipyards. Next they designed and built the next larger and more complex class, frigates. They had plans for a new destroyer and some conceptual designs for an aircraft carrier. However, Russia annexed the Crimea in 2014 and then got hit with international sanctions. Technically, they still have plans for the Lider-class destroyer and a new aircraft carrier, but it is repeated put off to the next planning cycle like clockwork. Personally, I do not see even new corvettes being produced anytime soon due to sanctions associated with the invasion of Ukraine.
yeah naval design and technology is extremely compettive. unlike ground capabilities which can be quickly upgraded or augmented to a modern. or near modern standard. its very hard to catch up with naval tech once you miss a step
It’s an analog of the Vorcha. You can kitbash vorcha parts with it. This is the reasoning for the rescale
right. its a shame STOs vorcha kit doesn't come with alternative head modules like were designed.
Can tell this guys a sci builder,best hull tank in the game
I'm totally on your side VenomGeekMedia. When you have the Ktinga and the Vorcha what's the point of this ship. It's like creating a ship just to do it and not because it serves a purpose.
its worth saying that in the dominion war the K'tinga found a new niche and the klingons played into it. when this was built there was a need because the Ktinga just couldn't cut it any more
Feels like the in-betweener explanation
Well I kind of like the Kamarag class and it's new re-scale to match with the Vor'cha class as its predecessor and gives the Klingons some larger ships from the TMP Era and still use in active service with the B'rel class and the K't'inga class.
With new re-scale of the Kamarag class, now it is in the same size or length range and a match with the Starfleet Excelsior class and Romulan Nova class.
But very one has the right to give their opinion of whether they like the ship or not.
Yeah but it also makes it too big next to the vorcha, so I prefer the smaller size as it gives a sense of progression between the ktinga and vorcha
@@venomgeekmedia9886 The Vorcha looks more high tech anyway. I noticed the Feds are down sizing from the old Galaxy class. If anything I thought the Dominion war would have teach them a lesson in ships they need but I guess not. That's space hippies for you and if Riker, Janeway and Sisko have the biggest set in Starfleet it don't look good for the Feds and I won't even talk about Picard. Where is real captions like Archer and Kirk when you need them.
It's all analysis made from, Love! :)
I like the look of the Kamarag it's like a sportier version of the Vor'cha. What I can't quire understand is the failure of the heavy disrupters are they very short range? Or too slow to fire?. Was this issue addressed in some way? Can you go a bit deeper into this in a later video as heavy disruptors continue to feature on Klingon ships into the 24th century.
Shorter range. So they had a very limited striking window to do damage.
of course as with all klingon designs they seem to be able refit the things with ease so they probably could give them upgrades to be able to be decent effectively what would be in the TNG era be a mid weight cruiser
I'm really curious about your sources, because everything you talk about appears to be stuff you made up in your own head-canon.
You mentioned the Klingon's used Ship Guilds to build their ships and they had their specialized space frames and types for each one?
Why does this sound like there should have been a cruiser or BoP guild named after Artem Mikoyan and Mikhail Gurevich. "This cruiser you're berthed on was made by the honorable guild of MiG." "Oh, so That's why I heard singing on the way over here!"
There is no way the Nova class has twelve torpedo bays it has four at the most
I mean it does. We modeled them.
MY FAVORITE SHIP NOW!
Im fav ship as well.
Got the Fleet version... And it's not the ship its the build! For instance I'm running a dirty Pax build putting out just shy of 200K Hull at 199.458K Hull Points Most T6 Fed can't get that high. Average dps is around 80-96k 123K crit! I play a Romulan Klingon and i have a lot of the old style Retro Klingon Fleet Retrofits.. Fleet Negh'Tev Fleet Somraw Fleet Qin Etc etc.... been playing the same toon since 2016 to put that into perspective... I've seen Lobi ships getting popped in advanced Borg TFO because its the build that's shit not the ship.
I love how these guilds map neatly as analogues for Soviet-era design bureaus.
More comparative to the different soviet tank plants.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 the 20 year break reminds me of the interwar german navy which had similar problems
@@sovietdominion which is why the Kreigsmarine was basically forgotten about by german leadership. WW1 was their chance and they blew it.
the kaiserflotte was basically just to protect Merchants but the brits got very very salty about it that anyone would try to Challenge them on the sea and it was so bad they allied with their mortal enemy the french
Seems like Klingon technology is always behind the times since the times of TOS.
i'd disagree. in TOS i'd actually say they had an advantage in some areas like torpedoes and warp acceleration. they kept parity in the 70s and 80s enough to pose a very real military threat to the federation.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 That's why I said "since the times of TOS". I meant that Klingon technology seemed to lag behind after that series ended.
Cheers
I think it looks great. It looks like the perfect design to go between the K'Tinga and the Vor'Cha.
HUSNOCK WARSHIP .
After watching the video I admit I kind of like a few things about it like the torpedo upgrade. I am a bit of a nut when it comes to torpedoes. I think it's in part because my father in law was carrier US Navy and fired the first naval surface to air and surface to surface Talos missiles in naval history and shot down two Mig Jet fighters in Vietnam and is in the history books so after years of his stories I think it rubbed off enough that I love naval missiles and torpedoes.
looks like like FASA's D 4
decent design
Kvort class would be better. Fast agile pocket battleship as oposed to a enlarged ktinga.
"Cool ship................never heard of it 😕"
I'm glad it didn't exist in canon.
This ship, It's so boring. What does the name mean?
its the klingon ambassador from ST3