What about the Achilles as it was written into the Full Circle novels? By the description I suspect it looks a lot like the starcruisers in STO, maybe even like the STO Achilles, but its length was in the 900 meter range, and it was designed to be a mobile repair facility and logistics base for the Full Circle fleet.
The Achilles: what if we proportionally increase the defiant's firepower, recycle Sovereign and Intrepid class parts, and give it spinal weapons designed to bust space stations but due to the added power and Starfleet know how small enough to use on other ships. To give credit to Starfleet it wasn't designed initially for the hexa guns to be used in ship combat that's the torpedo arrays job.
@@sim.frischh9781 It did nearly kill someone's dog mind you, when one of the rockets broke off and went careening across the beach, just missing someone's dog, who then started chasing after it
As said on the short Someone saw the Defiant and said " but what if bigger ?". Though one thing you missed is in the long term it'd have been great a dealing with romulans as most of their fleet was just big battleships. So even if it missed it's calling in the Domion war it'd have scared the romulans quite a bit. Might have even been why starfleet let them get so far, just as something to 'let' some info on it get leak to give them pause.
Im currently rocking an Achilles in STO and love how it most definitely flies like a much upgunned defiant class. the hexa-phaser cannons, backed up by another 3 dual cannon and 2 dual beam banks dont half make for absolutely devastating strafing runs, lol, esp if you tie in a repulsor beam to get 2 strafes for the price of one, then drop off some temporal MIRVs and micro torpedoes as you swing around for another pass.
Absolutely my headcanon was that starfleet, having revisited and remade many other older designs after the whole mars incident, looked back at the Achilles design and saw that with the tech of the 25th century, they could make it work effectively and so was able to finally produce them
"The Sovereign class is a useless expensive piece of junk!" - Admiral Sprey, the "Designer" of the Excelsior class in an interview with Cardassia Today
6:05 This is actually an important step in ship design for the universe. The weapons in that universe do not work by sheer amount of energy on target. They work by disrupting or phasing out the strong and weak nuclear forces binding physical matter together. That's the reason they disintegrate so easily as a directed energy weapon. Instead of explode such as would normally happen, if you place enough energy on target to disintegrate the target. It is also the reason there is actually an out-gassing from the disintegration caused by phasers and disruptors in the setting of the universe. While most people don't notice it if you pay close attention. You can actually see mist, smoke, or wispy gas released after each disintegration. This is described in the lore as the physical matter being converted into hydrogen or helium as the strong and weak nuclear bonds are disrupted for a moment before reinstating, essentially recombining the physical matter into a lighter element. Though it's described as not being a 100%, which is why you will often have smudges dust or scorch marks composed of carbon, iron, or calcium left behind. The only parts of the ships which are in fact critical to the operation of the ships as a combat unit is those huge warp pontoons, engineering, the computer core, and at least one of the bridges. Most of the ships in the setting usually have 2 bridges. Most ships in the setting use plasma relay power conduits to transfer power from the warp core around the ships. This actually is designed to make it easier to divert power around damaged sections. The ships in that Universe are actually designed to take large scale damage by having huge Sections of the ships disintegrated. So, it would make sense if they develop something like ablative armor for these types of directed energy weapons and it was a little more expensive or difficult to manufacture that they would just slap it on the sections of the ships. They can't really do without.
I personally believe that the Achilles, like you suggested, was at most a one off prototype that never really saw combat/not completed and was scrapped. By STO’s time however technology advanced enough and with plenty of new battleship designs starfleet was facing off with, and many older designs being revived due to the whole mars thing, the Achilles was actually possible to produce in a way that wouldn’t make it useless.
So the achillies is you know the Defiant class is good but what if we made it a bigger! Say the size of a battleship and stuck a bunch of micro quantum torpedo's on it....Yep its kinda crazy.
the rear engines on the back of the Achilles are actually redundant warp engines in case the nacelles were severely damaged or destroyed, also as someone that was part of the design process of Argonaut its also meant to have these on the inner area of its engineering hull, although they would not be as powerful as the Achilles ones and those are pulse phaser arrays forward not a siege torpedo system
@@Knight121198 it's just a forward deck at the bow akin to the Sabre Class. The one on the spine is a through bay. The updated version of the Argonaut that WileyCotote built has a Flight control tower now inbeded it's featured in the Ships of the line Calendar
The majority of mass being at the back of Klingon ships and their downward nacelles is also because the Klingons mostly have forward-facing weapons. They need to be constantly facing their target to do ANYTHING. Therefore they have to orbit their target, constantly moving the rear to get the front to face.
The designers name was probably Patroclus. It would be strange to name the ship you work on for several years, after a guy who killed your namesake. Sry not trying to be a nerd.
@nealsterling8151 the vid is crapping all over the Achilles class " you won't have eyes tonight or a tongue and you'll wonder the underworld blind ,deaf and dumb and all will know this is Hector the fool who thought he killed Achilles" the joke was Hector made a crap ship and named it Achilles on purpose
I am definitely interested in what you think the 25th century Starfleet would look like. STO has a ton of ships, and the shouldn't-be-canon shows added more, so I'd be interested in what ships you think would be made, why, and what the resulting 25th Century fleet doctrine looks like.
I didn't realise that the Achillles was that big. I always thought it was smaller. The auxiliary impulse engines are supposed to be below the plasma vents and the aft glowing grills are supposed to be auxillary warp engines. I used to think that the aft section could separate as it had the battle bridge but the separation lines aren't as obvious. I have since come to the conclusion that iyt doesn't make sense for it to separate
Seems like just doing the Galaxy Class Dreadnought variant would be easier to do. Big enough to have extra torpedo tubes in all directions, huge power source for enhanced shields and weapons. Then if you strip out all family amenities you have even more space. Damn near a limitless supply of torpedoes of all kinds. Remove as many windows as necessary, add ablative armor, the spinal lance, pulse phaser cannons... It would be a terrifying ship to show up with all weapons aimed at you.
@@Meritaniawhat planets? They didn’t get anything- They just helped occupy Cardassia for maybe a year at most then buggered off- Since dividing cardassia into a bunch of long term occupation zones would probably be the worst possibly decision the allies could have possibly made
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly wonderfully well done and executed and informatively explained in every detail way shape and format provided on the Argonaut Class Battle Ship, A job very nicely fabulously well done indeed Sir!👌.
The only version of Achilles I'm familiar with is in the Borg Incursion mod for Armada 1. In that it is less a battle ship and more a frigate. A missile frigate to be specific. I like it.
Looking at these alligator head designs in Starfleet classes and the flat, and flatter, angle of the nacelles and seeing ,more and more, the Jupiter class Battlestar influence. Might we see more human Borg models in Star Treks future?
The drive system seems to be an admittance that despite the protection, the Achilles couldn’t handle a slugging match between peer players and needed to close the distance quite rapidly.
Just because you can fire 10 round volleys of torpedoes does not mean you have to. I have little doubt that they could easily fire one torpedo at a time so that each torpedo launcher fired can be reloaded while it cycled through the other 9 torpedoes.
putting all the ablative armor on vital areas is actually the most efficient way. the "all or nothing" armor scheme is how most us battleships after the uss nevada were defended.
Week late (second) reply, i know, but I wonder if the Typhoon would be the Close-Range brawler Battleship? Especially if we go with the current Canon for the Odyssey class being rushed and having problems (well, some of them; we do see the USS Hikaru Sulu in operation during Frontier Day), the Typhoon could be a stop-gap until the issues with the Odyssey are fixed.
21:11 Shouldn't a Galaxy-class be considered a long-range outboxer? The Akira-class can fire a lot of torpedoes but it would quickly burn through its magazines. A Galaxy-class can carry more torpedoes. Fire 10 forward, turn. Fire 10 aft, turn. Rinse and repeat.
I strongly suspect that a larger ship also would have larger plasma vents, thus having a lower number than a smaller ship wouldn´t be an issue. There´s also the point that torpedo launchers do not require large amounts of energy to fire since the projectiles already exist and merely need to be accellerated enough until their own propulsion system takes over, if they aren´t entirely self-propelled. But since i don´t play STO, i have no horse in this race, merely pointing out what seems logic to me.
Anyone else had the urge to quote Emperor Palpatine during Venoms description of the Achilles. "Let the hate flow through you. I can feel you anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant. It is inevitable. You are now MINE. (Evil laughter) Good. Your hate has made you powerful." Ehh? Ehh? Just me? Okay. Edit: But yeah I can see the Achilles being the rough equivalent of ships like the Montana class or the Japanese battleship that were expected to mount 20 inch guns or the various German Super heavy tanks like the Maus or the E100 i.e. a super prototype that was thought up but never actually built or built in incredibly limited numbers.
My headcanon is that while it was only a prototype during the dominion war, during the 25th century when starfleet was at war again and was revisiting many old ship designs, they realized with model tech they could fix the Achilles and bring it to its full glory and managed to finally make it a proper (albeit limited) production ship
I want to see a large, carrier-type, deep exploration Federation ship that has 4 to 6 "built in" Defiant-class ships that dock like captain's yachts, or aero shuttles, with 3 or more squadrons of Delta-class attack shuttles crewed by Red Squad memebers.
It is absolutely beautiful and I personally think that it Atleast got to the prototype stage before being canned in favor of the argonaut but thanks to STO, we could say the design was revisited alongside many older designs and the new technologies of the 25th century allowed it to finally be made into a proper ship
5:08 Listening to the description of the micro-torpedoes I have a vision of the designers pulling the idea from watching clips of the anti-attack ship missiles from "Space Battleship Yamato".
I like the Argonaut class because it’s restrained. I can see it cruising through a system doing a scan or vomiting torpedoes. In my heart all the torpedo launchers are burst fire. So the fore slash is 26 torpedoes with the sides giving 12 and the back end 9
@@madrabbit9007 okay in achillies i can kinda see it though again. compare it to the Dominion battleship and Hutet. Tonnage wise it doesn't come close.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Agreed...sorta. If you stripped all the science stuff out of a Galaxy-class it would be a much smaller ship. If the Achilles was a super sized Defiant then you would expect super efficient Federation tech to take up less space and wouldn't need to be as big. The Dominion ships likely doubled as troop transports thus the need to be so big.
@@madrabbit9007 Not just the science stuff. I tend to think of the Sovereign as a Galaxy with the empty volume largely stripped away. I wonder how the main mass of the Sovereign (or now that I think of it, Nebula) compares to the Argonaut's main mass in size. You might not need to strip out too much science to get it Argonaut sized.
Wait, so the waste product of the Impulse/Fusion Engine fuels the Warp Engine - and then the waste product of the Warp engine fuels the secondary Impulse Engine? Is this the Human Centipede of propulsion systems?
I think the Argonaut is the perfect vessel for defending key starfleet locations and installations if you need heavy firepower or just to intimidate your opponent. Also Venom one thing you didn't mention much which already indicates it may be a negative in some cases is the interior. It isn't noted for having impressive quarters or facilitates, nothing is mentioned about its science and medical facilities and it doesn't seem particularly good as a command center or for transporting and hosting diplomats and delegates which leads me to believe the interior much like the Defiant must be pretty spartan. Especially when you compare it to say a Sovereign, Yes the Sovereign's facilities are smaller but from what I remember they were still considered good and certainly good enough facilities to host events and important diplomatic events as we see this at beginning of Insurrection.
With locked-forward weapons emplacements, shouldn't these ships have lateral engines/super-thrusters that could help them strafe sideways so these guns are always aimed at their opponent the whole time the Star Fleet ship passes by? They are still designing the ships for fixed-wing aircraft forward-motion diving maneuvers but giving them helicopter weaponry that needs to face and track the enemy target.
Well Venom was quite harsh on the Achilles. IMPO, I think both are okay. The Argonaut indeed is mildly better in function & aesthetics, but the brick side profile of the Achiles looks nicer than the anorexic humpback side profile of the Argonaut. From the video, I think both are better as complements to each other than either being alone. Given the anti-Borg doctrine, the Achiles is the short-range brawler battleship, & the Argonaut is the long-range outboxer battleship (& the Sovereign being the mid-range general purpose fast battleship). Also, I wonder if you took the possible size of the plasma cooling vents into account. 15:26 ; It seems you jumbled up the two there.
I'm listening to this video and I've never heard such tactical/engineering twaddle in my life. First of all any sensible design bureau is going to design defiant sized ships rather than Sovereign sized because this has a variety of distinct advantages, such as their smaller size makes them harder to hit, they can operate independently against smaller ships (especially in the Dominion war) but can come together and operate as a battlefleet of wasps stinging the larger ship to death, and the loss of one has minimal impact on the operation, is cheaper to absorb, and results in less death. As for the "it has to wait for ten shots to be loaded", have you never heard of a speed loader? You mount ten shots in a rack and the ten shots are loaded at the same time.
A couple of thoughts. First, the Enterprise E depleted its phasers on impulse power - recall that the Scimitar's opening move disabled the warp core. I don't think it follows that rapid fire depletes phasers on a fully operational capital ship. Second, I like the idea of torpedo ships but sadly they don't seem to work on screen. I personally chalk it up to budget constraints but if we take the shows literally then fleets collectively capable of launching thousands of torpedoes before the range closes for some reason choose not to. See every fleet engagement in the Dominion war. In universe perhaps signal jamming prevents target lock at range, for torpedoes specifically, or both but as I recall this is not mentioned.
I'm going to be blunt, the Achilles just sounds like HMS Dreadnought, also known as the single most revolutionary battleship in the last 120 years. The design goal is killing enemy battleships, the methodology is a "all big gun" main armament with a minimal secondary armament and a few torpedoes, and an armor scheme that emphasizes protection of critical areas. It all matches. Admittedly, it sounds like they seriously fucked up the engines and cooling systems, but the underlying concept seems sound. Also, on the subject of the cooling systems, do we know that the plasma vents are the same as the ones on the Defiant? Because if they're a larger and more capable model then the cooling systems might be fine.
Argonaut is basically the federations version of a missile boat battleship. Comparable to the Klingon negvaha of the dominion war era. Giving them the ability to stand off and pummel enemy ships, fortifications and stations at Will from long range.
@@venomgeekmedia9886I’ve thought about it, as long as it’s set in a parallel universe caused by time-travel shenanigans and promptly destroyed when it’s done, it’s doable.
both ships work I think that the Achilles was a high cost prototype designed for the anti borg fleet like the Prometheus as sphere/cube killers Promethus si the ulitimate counter puncher dancing around the cube and then splitting into three ships to maximise the swarm attack while the Achilles take the idea of a brawler and a counter puncher and roles it in to one but the ship proved too complicated and the anti borg fleet did its job and destroyed the second cube so the project was shelved then in the dominion Starfleet is losing ground and so they begin looking for a war winning weapon and then Hutet shows up and Star Fleet becomes concerned that is took three Galaxy class and Nebula class ship to defeat one Hutet and knowing that the Dominion are are going to start pumping out ships then the dominion battleship comes in and Starfleet wants a proper battle ship killer and so built Achilles but in the post war and while Prometheus would find use as a patrol and exploratory vessel the ship literally being reconfigured on the fly while Achilles was just a massive sledge hammer wit problems that does no work in peace time even as Achilles is being designed the idea is in insane so starfleet wants something more sensible and so Argonaut comes in to to make this monster work as a starship and it does work.
I was under the impression that the Defiant had overheating problems because there was too much firepower in too small of craft. Wouldn't the Achilles, being much larger be able to handle the overheating more efficiently?
The difference between say an assault battleship, and the dominion battleship in my opinion is the same concept in Stargate sg-1 that the system lords employed their main attack vessels were in most of their weaponry was designed around, intimidation to scare your opponent, or to scare the populist of some poor backwater planet, whereas the earth and the other allies that they had developed actual weapons of war things to actually go up and take outvery big impressive things with overpowered weapons that can’t hurt smaller maneuverable things that have more devastating firepower
"What if we made those hedgehogs micro-torpedoes?" "What if we made those micro-torpedoes QUANTUM micro-torpedoes!?" That is called a warcrime! Congrats, you guys are creating miniaturized warcrimes! xD
With having impulse engines burning warp plasma for high velocity impulse they better keep an eye on picking up the time dilation effect doing high sublight.
I understand you don’t like the Achilles class but her inclusion in STO is perfect and well deserved. She’s and the other ships in the legacy bundle are all great ships well worth the cost.
Why do you see the Achilles class as a battleship? I always saw the Achilles as a Defineit class on steroids, or a slightly upscaled and much more aggressive Intrepid class. Say somewhere in one of the cruiser categories. Like the Federation was attempt to copy the Klingon Vorcha class Attack Cruiser, and only built a handful of the Achilles class during the war but then decommissioned them a few years later, both for them bing too aggressive even for peace time and they couldn't get the bug worked out. Good video.
Looks like someone sat on Galaxy Class and moved themselves forward and backward. Those on back of engineering section are not impulse engines but warp coils. In fact this ship has 6 sets of warp coils: 2 in each nacelle and 2 inside engineering hull. At least accoring to STO.
The Argonaut is starfleet future concept design that was the meant to show the future as a show piece but then voyager come home and Then Argonaut worked so well that starfleet menat all in one this ship and when Star began project Odyssey the Argonautn technoloy is bought into a new era and maximised as star fleet begins new fleet upgrade program to replace the whole fleet
Battleships specialized in torpedoes don't make much sense in general, especially when this armament is primarily installed at the bow and on the sides. The side-mounted devices are still quite usable, as is the case with the Akira class. However, a forward-facing primary torpedo phalanx is only useful on smaller ships designed for quick, hard-hitting attacks. Anything larger than a medium cruiser requires a well-balanced armament for both offense and defense. The Emissary class, the Sovereign class, and the Akira class are the best examples of a very balanced armament for warships. Additionally, the Akira class has its function as a light carrier. Its 360° armament of torpedoes and phaser phalanxes makes it an extremely effective warship. The Argonaut class follows this principle in every respect. In contrast, the Achilles is anything but a well-thought-out concept. Its size, combined with the forward-facing main armament, significantly compromises its own defense, mobility, and usability in a large battle.
Special thanks to everyone who helped in the making of this videoyou know who you are
www.deviantart.com/admiral-horton
Fusion Reactors also generate plasma. The only difference is in quantity.
What about the Achilles as it was written into the Full Circle novels? By the description I suspect it looks a lot like the starcruisers in STO, maybe even like the STO Achilles, but its length was in the 900 meter range, and it was designed to be a mobile repair facility and logistics base for the Full Circle fleet.
The Achilles: what if we proportionally increase the defiant's firepower, recycle Sovereign and Intrepid class parts, and give it spinal weapons designed to bust space stations but due to the added power and Starfleet know how small enough to use on other ships. To give credit to Starfleet it wasn't designed initially for the hexa guns to be used in ship combat that's the torpedo arrays job.
I nearly died laughing at that rocket propelled death wheel
its wheely bad... i'll see myself out
It was supposed to clear beaches of mines and barbed wire. But it didn't really work and was never deployed
What's so funny about my Great Panjandrum?
He has a wife, you know...
Prototype of a mine clearing device, never put into service as far as i know, it had a bad habit of getting off course in tests.
@@sim.frischh9781 It did nearly kill someone's dog mind you, when one of the rockets broke off and went careening across the beach, just missing someone's dog, who then started chasing after it
Love the "Pentagon Wars" music.
As said on the short
Someone saw the Defiant and said " but what if bigger ?". Though one thing you missed is in the long term it'd have been great a dealing with romulans as most of their fleet was just big battleships. So even if it missed it's calling in the Domion war it'd have scared the romulans quite a bit. Might have even been why starfleet let them get so far, just as something to 'let' some info on it get leak to give them pause.
Im currently rocking an Achilles in STO and love how it most definitely flies like a much upgunned defiant class. the hexa-phaser cannons, backed up by another 3 dual cannon and 2 dual beam banks dont half make for absolutely devastating strafing runs, lol, esp if you tie in a repulsor beam to get 2 strafes for the price of one, then drop off some temporal MIRVs and micro torpedoes as you swing around for another pass.
Absolutely my headcanon was that starfleet, having revisited and remade many other older designs after the whole mars incident, looked back at the Achilles design and saw that with the tech of the 25th century, they could make it work effectively and so was able to finally produce them
The section about the Achilles felt like it came straight out of a Lazerpig video XD
I was fully ready to hear Pierre Spray come up
Needs a little more drunken rambling, though
"The Sovereign class is a useless expensive piece of junk!" - Admiral Sprey, the "Designer" of the Excelsior class in an interview with Cardassia Today
@@weldonwin The Excelsior Mafia and their rugged and reliable
@@weldonwinthen the sovereign class launches and he claims to be the lead designer of the ship.
PhazerTarg
6:05 This is actually an important step in ship design for the universe.
The weapons in that universe do not work by sheer amount of energy on target. They work by disrupting or phasing out the strong and weak nuclear forces binding physical matter together.
That's the reason they disintegrate so easily as a directed energy weapon. Instead of explode such as would normally happen, if you place enough energy on target to disintegrate the target.
It is also the reason there is actually an out-gassing from the disintegration caused by phasers and disruptors in the setting of the universe. While most people don't notice it if you pay close attention. You can actually see mist, smoke, or wispy gas released after each disintegration.
This is described in the lore as the physical matter being converted into hydrogen or helium as the strong and weak nuclear bonds are disrupted for a moment before reinstating, essentially recombining the physical matter into a lighter element.
Though it's described as not being a 100%, which is why you will often have smudges dust or scorch marks composed of carbon, iron, or calcium left behind.
The only parts of the ships which are in fact critical to the operation of the ships as a combat unit is those huge warp pontoons, engineering, the computer core, and at least one of the bridges. Most of the ships in the setting usually have 2 bridges.
Most ships in the setting use plasma relay power conduits to transfer power from the warp core around the ships. This actually is designed to make it easier to divert power around damaged sections. The ships in that Universe are actually designed to take large scale damage by having huge Sections of the ships disintegrated.
So, it would make sense if they develop something like ablative armor for these types of directed energy weapons and it was a little more expensive or difficult to manufacture that they would just slap it on the sections of the ships. They can't really do without.
I personally believe that the Achilles, like you suggested, was at most a one off prototype that never really saw combat/not completed and was scrapped. By STO’s time however technology advanced enough and with plenty of new battleship designs starfleet was facing off with, and many older designs being revived due to the whole mars thing, the Achilles was actually possible to produce in a way that wouldn’t make it useless.
So the achillies is you know the Defiant class is good but what if we made it a bigger! Say the size of a battleship and stuck a bunch of micro quantum torpedo's on it....Yep its kinda crazy.
@@hmsverdun but I like it!
"Hey man, pass me another hit of that stuff the Ferengi sold us..." - The designers of the Achilles Class, probably
the rear engines on the back of the Achilles are actually redundant warp engines in case the nacelles were severely damaged or destroyed, also as someone that was part of the design process of Argonaut its also meant to have these on the inner area of its engineering hull, although they would not be as powerful as the Achilles ones and those are pulse phaser arrays forward not a siege torpedo system
Was looking to see if anyone else had commented on this 😅
Are there Hexacannons as well?
@@Knight121198 indeed they are still
@@meteorafallen is that a through deck or just a second hanger at the front?
@@Knight121198 it's just a forward deck at the bow akin to the Sabre Class. The one on the spine is a through bay. The updated version of the Argonaut that WileyCotote built has a Flight control tower now inbeded it's featured in the Ships of the line Calendar
FYI the hedgehog was a contact-only ahead throwing depth charge. It was on a spigot mortar arrangement. Torpedos in general were moble.
The majority of mass being at the back of Klingon ships and their downward nacelles is also because the Klingons mostly have forward-facing weapons. They need to be constantly facing their target to do ANYTHING. Therefore they have to orbit their target, constantly moving the rear to get the front to face.
I bet the guy whom designed the Achilles was named Hector (Troy reference) 😂😂
The designers name was probably Patroclus.
It would be strange to name the ship you work on for several years, after a guy who killed your namesake.
Sry not trying to be a nerd.
@nealsterling8151 the vid is crapping all over the Achilles class " you won't have eyes tonight or a tongue and you'll wonder the underworld blind ,deaf and dumb and all will know this is Hector the fool who thought he killed Achilles" the joke was Hector made a crap ship and named it Achilles on purpose
@@thestanleys3657 Ah, i get it. TY
I am definitely interested in what you think the 25th century Starfleet would look like. STO has a ton of ships, and the shouldn't-be-canon shows added more, so I'd be interested in what ships you think would be made, why, and what the resulting 25th Century fleet doctrine looks like.
i can't believe i've been watching tons of your videos and forgot to subscribe . Well I finally subscibed.
Man, it always floors me how small Federation ships are, given the context of wider sci-fi.
More that wider sci fi is ludicrous large. Especially given how much of a ships interior well actually ever see in the course of a TV show
Some sci-fi franchises overcompensate...
would love, love, love, to see a close-range brawler battleship design (my vote goes to the Insignia class) to complete the picture :D
The Akira had the right idea. Equip all these ships with upgraded quantum torpedoes, and lots of "boom boom boom" follows 😂
I didn't realise that the Achillles was that big. I always thought it was smaller. The auxiliary impulse engines are supposed to be below the plasma vents and the aft glowing grills are supposed to be auxillary warp engines. I used to think that the aft section could separate as it had the battle bridge but the separation lines aren't as obvious. I have since come to the conclusion that iyt doesn't make sense for it to separate
Seems like just doing the Galaxy Class Dreadnought variant would be easier to do. Big enough to have extra torpedo tubes in all directions, huge power source for enhanced shields and weapons.
Then if you strip out all family amenities you have even more space. Damn near a limitless supply of torpedoes of all kinds. Remove as many windows as necessary, add ablative armor, the spinal lance, pulse phaser cannons...
It would be a terrifying ship to show up with all weapons aimed at you.
Okay now I really really badly want more content about the 2380s Romulan - Federation Cold War cuz this is awesome
I can imagine the Romulans creating a ‘Warsaw Pact’ out of the liberated planets they acquired during the Dominion War.
@@Meritaniawhat planets? They didn’t get anything-
They just helped occupy Cardassia for maybe a year at most then buggered off-
Since dividing cardassia into a bunch of long term occupation zones would probably be the worst possibly decision the allies could have possibly made
The torpedoes and triangle hull remind me of the Victory 1 Star Destroyer from Star Wars and it's assault concussion missile launchers.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very nicely greatly wonderfully well done and executed and informatively explained in every detail way shape and format provided on the Argonaut Class Battle Ship, A job very nicely fabulously well done indeed Sir!👌.
The only version of Achilles I'm familiar with is in the Borg Incursion mod for Armada 1. In that it is less a battle ship and more a frigate. A missile frigate to be specific. I like it.
My God this was an entertaining and funny episode! Well done brotha!
Do you have any video plan for the typhon class
It you want a powerful ship, it needs to be big! That allows for larger cooling systems to be installed, which solves the overheating issue.
The Achilles class looks like the product of an illicit liaison between an Intrepid class starship and a Jupiter class battlestar...
Looking at these alligator head designs in Starfleet classes and the flat, and flatter, angle of the nacelles and seeing ,more and more, the Jupiter class Battlestar influence. Might we see more human Borg models in Star Treks future?
The drive system seems to be an admittance that despite the protection, the Achilles couldn’t handle a slugging match between peer players and needed to close the distance quite rapidly.
Torpedoes seem to be the right idea post Dominion War, Feds have the Argonaught, Romulans their Kerchan, and the Klingons had the Vor'kang
Just because you can fire 10 round volleys of torpedoes does not mean you have to. I have little doubt that they could easily fire one torpedo at a time so that each torpedo launcher fired can be reloaded while it cycled through the other 9 torpedoes.
A video on the Federation 23 th century fleet doctrine and include how its battleships would be used as well.
it's nice that it doesn't have the absurdly excessive numbers and locations of windows that too many models do have imho
Pizza is ordered and I find a new Venom Geek vid. Life is good. Enough.
putting all the ablative armor on vital areas is actually the most efficient way. the "all or nothing" armor scheme is how most us battleships after the uss nevada were defended.
Week late (second) reply, i know, but I wonder if the Typhoon would be the Close-Range brawler Battleship? Especially if we go with the current Canon for the Odyssey class being rushed and having problems (well, some of them; we do see the USS Hikaru Sulu in operation during Frontier Day), the Typhoon could be a stop-gap until the issues with the Odyssey are fixed.
21:11 Shouldn't a Galaxy-class be considered a long-range outboxer?
The Akira-class can fire a lot of torpedoes but it would quickly burn through its magazines. A Galaxy-class can carry more torpedoes. Fire 10 forward, turn. Fire 10 aft, turn. Rinse and repeat.
I strongly suspect that a larger ship also would have larger plasma vents, thus having a lower number than a smaller ship wouldn´t be an issue.
There´s also the point that torpedo launchers do not require large amounts of energy to fire since the projectiles already exist and merely need to be accellerated enough until their own propulsion system takes over, if they aren´t entirely self-propelled.
But since i don´t play STO, i have no horse in this race, merely pointing out what seems logic to me.
“…Graceful and extremely advanced Emissary…”
_and there was a ship named Scheherazade..._
Honest to god until I saw the description I thought you were talking about ships from Battlestar Gallactica Reimagined
Anyone else had the urge to quote Emperor Palpatine during Venoms description of the Achilles. "Let the hate flow through you. I can feel you anger. With each passing moment you make yourself more my servant. It is inevitable. You are now MINE. (Evil laughter) Good. Your hate has made you powerful." Ehh? Ehh? Just me? Okay.
Edit: But yeah I can see the Achilles being the rough equivalent of ships like the Montana class or the Japanese battleship that were expected to mount 20 inch guns or the various German Super heavy tanks like the Maus or the E100 i.e. a super prototype that was thought up but never actually built or built in incredibly limited numbers.
Sorry, I'll keep my Achilles thank you very much. My favorite STO starship
ya that Argonaught is just an upscaled Akira, replaceing the Achilles with it is a bad move, it should work alongside the Achilles as a team.
I like it myself, I thought it was an interesting design
to each his own Mr Stokes
@jonathanstrong4812 absolutely
My headcanon is that while it was only a prototype during the dominion war, during the 25th century when starfleet was at war again and was revisiting many old ship designs, they realized with model tech they could fix the Achilles and bring it to its full glory and managed to finally make it a proper (albeit limited) production ship
I want to see a large, carrier-type, deep exploration Federation ship that has 4 to 6 "built in" Defiant-class ships that dock like captain's yachts, or aero shuttles, with 3 or more squadrons of Delta-class attack shuttles crewed by Red Squad memebers.
you are thinking huge Mr Ortega maybe they would do so
That's kinda the role STO's Jupiter class would serve in peacetime, I would assume
What in tarnation?! I say sir! The Achilles is a beautiful ship I do declare!
It is absolutely beautiful and I personally think that it Atleast got to the prototype stage before being canned in favor of the argonaut but thanks to STO, we could say the design was revisited alongside many older designs and the new technologies of the 25th century allowed it to finally be made into a proper ship
5:08 Listening to the description of the micro-torpedoes I have a vision of the designers pulling the idea from watching clips of the anti-attack ship missiles from "Space Battleship Yamato".
i had watch the series when i was a young-fella in the late | early 1970s and 1980s it was very much a pretty good - cartoon
I like the Argonaut class because it’s restrained. I can see it cruising through a system doing a scan or vomiting torpedoes.
In my heart all the torpedo launchers are burst fire. So the fore slash is 26 torpedoes with the sides giving 12 and the back end 9
Sounds like they built a Yamato-class battleship. It was intended to be above and beyond anything America was and were projected to build.
funnily enough i had a conversation along these lines with Drach... i don't think the Argonaut is big enough to be compared to the treaty breakers...
@@venomgeekmedia9886 The Argonaut wouldn't fit the bill but the Achilles would. Talk about OP.
@@madrabbit9007 okay in achillies i can kinda see it though again. compare it to the Dominion battleship and Hutet. Tonnage wise it doesn't come close.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Agreed...sorta. If you stripped all the science stuff out of a Galaxy-class it would be a much smaller ship. If the Achilles was a super sized Defiant then you would expect super efficient Federation tech to take up less space and wouldn't need to be as big. The Dominion ships likely doubled as troop transports thus the need to be so big.
@@madrabbit9007 Not just the science stuff. I tend to think of the Sovereign as a Galaxy with the empty volume largely stripped away. I wonder how the main mass of the Sovereign (or now that I think of it, Nebula) compares to the Argonaut's main mass in size. You might not need to strip out too much science to get it Argonaut sized.
One man's genius is another's insanity... but that torpedo spam!
But phaser hexa-cannon go pew pew 😢
Can you do a review on the Excalibur class the federations answer to the dominion battleship?
Wait, so the waste product of the Impulse/Fusion Engine fuels the Warp Engine - and then the waste product of the Warp engine fuels the secondary Impulse Engine? Is this the Human Centipede of propulsion systems?
well with machines its atleast efficent use of energy if its done right.
It's very simple you have a large multi shot torpedo launcher like the Galaxy and also standard sustained fire launchers earlier ships.
If overkill had a physical body it would be that ship.
I think the Argonaut is the perfect vessel for defending key starfleet locations and installations if you need heavy firepower or just to intimidate your opponent. Also Venom one thing you didn't mention much which already indicates it may be a negative in some cases is the interior. It isn't noted for having impressive quarters or facilitates, nothing is mentioned about its science and medical facilities and it doesn't seem particularly good as a command center or for transporting and hosting diplomats and delegates which leads me to believe the interior much like the Defiant must be pretty spartan. Especially when you compare it to say a Sovereign, Yes the Sovereign's facilities are smaller but from what I remember they were still considered good and certainly good enough facilities to host events and important diplomatic events as we see this at beginning of Insurrection.
I LOVE the Argonaut, such a beautiful design
"A concession to sanity" Now that's a T-Shirt.
Well done ,Lol👍😂
“ ARROGANT CLASS ❓🥃🔥🤣 “
I always heard the Achilles class was Starfleet's response to the Hutet.
With locked-forward weapons emplacements, shouldn't these ships have lateral engines/super-thrusters that could help them strafe sideways so these guns are always aimed at their opponent the whole time the Star Fleet ship passes by? They are still designing the ships for fixed-wing aircraft forward-motion diving maneuvers but giving them helicopter weaponry that needs to face and track the enemy target.
Does the"saucer section" separate ?
Achilles Class is so epic. I don't like the Argonaut. Those nacelles look like they could just snap off.
it's called "Elegance" you barbarian, anyone might think you were a Jem'hadar...oh
almost any nacelle looks like it could come off
@@venomgeekmedia9886 Victory is life!
@@yelwinmoisesacostaduarte8915 True.
Well Venom was quite harsh on the Achilles. IMPO, I think both are okay. The Argonaut indeed is mildly better in function & aesthetics, but the brick side profile of the Achiles looks nicer than the anorexic humpback side profile of the Argonaut. From the video, I think both are better as complements to each other than either being alone. Given the anti-Borg doctrine, the Achiles is the short-range brawler battleship, & the Argonaut is the long-range outboxer battleship (& the Sovereign being the mid-range general purpose fast battleship).
Also, I wonder if you took the possible size of the plasma cooling vents into account.
15:26 ; It seems you jumbled up the two there.
Could you do one on D Curtis' Orion class?
intresting... not sure i'd have much to say...
I'm listening to this video and I've never heard such tactical/engineering twaddle in my life. First of all any sensible design bureau is going to design defiant sized ships rather than Sovereign sized because this has a variety of distinct advantages, such as their smaller size makes them harder to hit, they can operate independently against smaller ships (especially in the Dominion war) but can come together and operate as a battlefleet of wasps stinging the larger ship to death, and the loss of one has minimal impact on the operation, is cheaper to absorb, and results in less death. As for the "it has to wait for ten shots to be loaded", have you never heard of a speed loader? You mount ten shots in a rack and the ten shots are loaded at the same time.
i actually like the achilles, when i got it in sto, i thought it was a warship voyager, i thought it was only like 300 meters, but its actually big
Looks like a trench shovel. Or a streamlined alligator head of a Battlestar. It be interesting if only the Achilles herself was built.
Is there an upgraded Miranda ?
A couple of thoughts. First, the Enterprise E depleted its phasers on impulse power - recall that the Scimitar's opening move disabled the warp core. I don't think it follows that rapid fire depletes phasers on a fully operational capital ship. Second, I like the idea of torpedo ships but sadly they don't seem to work on screen. I personally chalk it up to budget constraints but if we take the shows literally then fleets collectively capable of launching thousands of torpedoes before the range closes for some reason choose not to. See every fleet engagement in the Dominion war. In universe perhaps signal jamming prevents target lock at range, for torpedoes specifically, or both but as I recall this is not mentioned.
How many defiants could you build for one achillies?
Imagine if Captain Sicko had the Argonaut Class has his ship.
The only thing I can see the Achilles being good for is if it was scaled down in size and then used as a defensive escort
so you mean a defiant ;)
That Pentagon Wars music when talking about the Achilles lol
I'm going to be blunt, the Achilles just sounds like HMS Dreadnought, also known as the single most revolutionary battleship in the last 120 years. The design goal is killing enemy battleships, the methodology is a "all big gun" main armament with a minimal secondary armament and a few torpedoes, and an armor scheme that emphasizes protection of critical areas. It all matches.
Admittedly, it sounds like they seriously fucked up the engines and cooling systems, but the underlying concept seems sound.
Also, on the subject of the cooling systems, do we know that the plasma vents are the same as the ones on the Defiant? Because if they're a larger and more capable model then the cooling systems might be fine.
Do you have a date for when the Argonaut was launched?
Probably 2385/86
@venomgeekmedia9886 thanks.
Seems a missed opportunity to mount a BSMFPH-Class Captain's Yacht.
The Achilles: if Kel-Tec built a starship.
I love your videos. I don't always agree with you, but I still love your videos.
Argonaut is basically the federations version of a missile boat battleship. Comparable to the Klingon negvaha of the dominion war era.
Giving them the ability to stand off and pummel enemy ships, fortifications and stations at Will from long range.
I just want a 25th century Star Trek series ran by Terry metallis. Let's get on that
are you sure about that? really think about it...
@@venomgeekmedia9886I’ve thought about it, as long as it’s set in a parallel universe caused by time-travel shenanigans and promptly destroyed when it’s done, it’s doable.
No thanks.
When are you going to start doing 25th century battles????? 🖖
If the Achilles class could talk, it looks like it would sound like that electric car from the Simpsons
I miss the days when Federation Starships didn't look like melted plastic being stretched out in a wind tunnel...
The guy who designed the Achilles class obvious took inspiration from his granny's slipper
he was gonna hit the dominion with that EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!!!
both ships work I think that the Achilles was a high cost prototype designed for the anti borg fleet like the Prometheus as sphere/cube killers Promethus si the ulitimate counter puncher dancing around the cube and then splitting into three ships to maximise the swarm attack while the Achilles take the idea of a brawler and a counter puncher and roles it in to one but the ship proved too complicated and the anti borg fleet did its job and destroyed the second cube so the project was shelved then in the dominion Starfleet is losing ground and so they begin looking for a war winning weapon and then Hutet shows up and Star Fleet becomes concerned that is took three Galaxy class and Nebula class ship to defeat one Hutet and knowing that the Dominion are are going to start pumping out ships then the dominion battleship comes in and Starfleet wants a proper battle ship killer and so built Achilles but in the post war and while Prometheus would find use as a patrol and exploratory vessel the ship literally being reconfigured on the fly while Achilles was just a massive sledge hammer wit problems that does no work in peace time even as Achilles is being designed the idea is in insane so starfleet wants something more sensible and so Argonaut comes in to to make this monster work as a starship and it does work.
I was under the impression that the Defiant had overheating problems because there was too much firepower in too small of craft. Wouldn't the Achilles, being much larger be able to handle the overheating more efficiently?
The difference between say an assault battleship, and the dominion battleship in my opinion is the same concept in Stargate sg-1 that the system lords employed their main attack vessels were in most of their weaponry was designed around, intimidation to scare your opponent, or to scare the populist of some poor backwater planet, whereas the earth and the other allies that they had developed actual weapons of war things to actually go up and take outvery big impressive things with overpowered weapons that can’t hurt smaller maneuverable things that have more devastating firepower
"What if we made those hedgehogs micro-torpedoes?"
"What if we made those micro-torpedoes QUANTUM micro-torpedoes!?"
That is called a warcrime! Congrats, you guys are creating miniaturized warcrimes! xD
With having impulse engines burning warp plasma for high velocity impulse they better keep an eye on picking up the time dilation effect doing high sublight.
I mean, Dominion Battleships, but also Borg could be a vialble target. And a bit of a deterrent against Romulans of the era)
I understand you don’t like the Achilles class but her inclusion in STO is perfect and well deserved. She’s and the other ships in the legacy bundle are all great ships well worth the cost.
If the were in the Dominion War game some Achilles class ships got built. I rarely used them when I played but I used them some.
Love the Achilles class
Good stuff!
Thanks mate.
😎👍
Why do you see the Achilles class as a battleship? I always saw the Achilles as a Defineit class on steroids, or a slightly upscaled and much more aggressive Intrepid class. Say somewhere in one of the cruiser categories.
Like the Federation was attempt to copy the Klingon Vorcha class Attack Cruiser, and only built a handful of the Achilles class during the war but then decommissioned them a few years later, both for them bing too aggressive even for peace time and they couldn't get the bug worked out.
Good video.
I would love to captain them both! ❤
Looks like someone sat on Galaxy Class and moved themselves forward and backward.
Those on back of engineering section are not impulse engines but warp coils. In fact this ship has 6 sets of warp coils: 2 in each nacelle and 2 inside engineering hull. At least accoring to STO.
The Argonaut is starfleet future concept design that was the meant to show the future as a show piece but then voyager come home and Then Argonaut worked so well that starfleet menat all in one this ship and when Star began project Odyssey the Argonautn technoloy is bought into a new era and maximised as star fleet begins new fleet upgrade program to replace the whole fleet
Battleships specialized in torpedoes don't make much sense in general,
especially when this armament is primarily installed at the bow and on the sides.
The side-mounted devices are still quite usable, as is the case with the Akira class.
However, a forward-facing primary torpedo phalanx is only useful on smaller ships
designed for quick, hard-hitting attacks.
Anything larger than a medium cruiser requires a well-balanced armament
for both offense and defense.
The Emissary class, the Sovereign class, and the Akira class
are the best examples of a very balanced armament for warships.
Additionally, the Akira class has its function as a light carrier.
Its 360° armament of torpedoes and phaser phalanxes
makes it an extremely effective warship.
The Argonaut class follows this principle in every respect.
In contrast, the Achilles is anything but a well-thought-out concept.
Its size, combined with the forward-facing main armament,
significantly compromises its own defense, mobility, and usability in a large battle.