The 350 Legend
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ธ.ค. 2021
- Subscribe to my channel: bit.ly/RonSpomerOutdoorsSubscribe
For an extended cut of this video, visit www.rsotv.com.
Affiliate Links:
Hell West and Crooked Hardcover - January 1, 1994
amzn.to/3pTcMSZ
Ron's Hat
Outback Trading 1472 Kodiak
amzn.to/3I3bwoC
Links:
Website: ronspomeroutdoors.com/
Facebook: / ronspomeroutdoors
Instagram: / ronspomer
Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
They're selling surprisingly well here in southern Michigan for such a new cartridge. I think it's because people want to hunt with their AR's
And it's inexpensive and readily available in most outdoor stores. Solid cartridge for anyone shooting within 300 yards.
Exactly. My cousin in Ohio just did an AR build with this caliber for hunting deer. He loves it.
I'm from SE MI as well, i have a savage 110 in this cartridge and i love it.
@@chopperdeath I did a ar build also. It's because I wanted to use me giessle trigger.
Plenty of other cartridges for an AR to choose from
I like the .350 Legend in an AR, and the .450 Bushmaster in a bolt gun. However, the 1895 in 45-70 is my favorite.
The 450 Bushmaster in an AR platform really surprised me. I never expected it to have such manageable recoil. A friend at hunting camp had me help him sight his in, and it was the first I ever shot 450. I think I would still rather have one in the form of a Ruger Gun sight scout though. That buffer spring is terribly noisy in my cheek weld.
@@hammerheadms you can get an AR to have no sproinging sound. I’ve owned two that I was able to get to stop that, which are the only two I’ve owned.
@@noahhorinek Really? Is there a silent buffer out there? Every AR I've shot, including my own has been pretty noisy. Usually it doesn't bother me, but I think in the context of hunting every shot I have ever taken had always "surprised" me during the silence that led up to it. Something about that spring in my ear drives me nuts when you go from complete silence to a sudden clatter.
Nothing like the 45-70 in those big leverguns! Love mine down here in Australia.
You can try putting a little grease on your buffer spring, it’s amazing how much of a difference it makes
The 44 rem mag. Defies ballistic charts out of a rifle. Something about 240gr. hollow points. Cheaper ammo lots of practice equals deer on ground.
Agree, i've killed several with the 44 mag ...
Thats all i hunt with. Single shot scout 44mag, i wish i would have sprung for the henry instead of cva after buying a 357mag henry for my daughter.
Furthest shot so far has been 141 yards on a 187lb hog… ran 40 yards and tipped over.
I agree. I'm kicking myself for selling my Browning Model 92, although a 4 pound Howa Mini Action carbon fibre in 350 Legend may make me feel a little bit better.
Been using my 44 mag rifle this year and it knocks the snot outta deer inside 100 yards! I have an AR in 350 and it does have the edge in range due to the higher bc but inside a 100 yards I’ll take a 240 grain bullet moving 1700 fps any day, especially in thick brush! Tracking ain’t a problem when there’s a .429 hole going in and a .750 hole coming out!
Hunting here in Eastern Kentucky I had to learn the hard way that cartridges like the 270 Winchester didn't do so well in brush so following the advice of a friend I purchased a Marlin model 95 in 44 rem mag . Well to make a long story short it is a great round to get though the thick stuff a little better than the 30 30 Winchester !
My state doesn't have the limits that make 350 legend so attractive to some. I just like having an AR that's bigger bore than 223.
Check out the 25-45 Sharps. .250 Savage ballistics (.250-3000); 87gr, .257 boolits. All you need is a barrel and set of dies and you're in business. I like these bigger bores in AR platforms. Kinda like a centerfire revolver on a rimfire frame, like the Single Seven in .327 (carries like a .22, choots like a .38, hits like a .357. Finally, after all these years, The Ideal Trail gun), or a Uberti .38 Target single action on a .22 frame. Always thought a Mini14 in .243 would be tits. I hear Ruger did try it years ago, but it didn't pan out beyond prototypes.
Oh, yeah, I did make a .350 upper, too. Why not.
A ballistic comparison between the Renmington 357 Maximum versus the 350 Legend would be nice
🤔 .357 Maximum 🤷🏻♂️
350 legend is a great deer round. I’ve taken 3 deer with mine and it’s done great on all 3.
ME TOO!! Great round
Essentially a new straight wall 35 Remmy. Think there is less recoil with the 350L vs the 35 Remington. My daughter chose the 350 over the 243, for her first deer rifle.
Took a deer with a 180 grain softpoint one of these last week. Punched through ribs on both sides. Third one since ive adapted the cartridge.
Great video. I have hunted and loaded the .350 legend for 3 years. I live in Brown County, Ohio, so the .350 is my go to caliber. Slug gun and 45.70 were my prefered cartridges for many years. Kills on one end and cripples on the other! .350 no kick, little bark, and superb performance. Ballistics; internal, external, and terminal are always considered when discussing the suitability of a cartridge. .350 legend punches well above its weight (terminal ballistics). I have never tracked a deer struck by the .350.
Hey neighbor.... Clermont here. Would love to pick your brain on your 350 knowledge.
Yeah, I'm in Ohio. I was told to go with the .450 Bushmaster for my first straight wall rifle hunt but the .350 seems like it would be adequate if you were careful with shots.
What peaked my interest was a new cartridge that fell in between the 30/30 Winchester and the 35 Remington.
You get a modern design for a low recoiling accurate lightweight points fast and inexpensive hunting round. The very first time I squeezed the trigger.. I fell in love with the Legend!
I actually got to use it for whitetail in 2020.. and also witnessed it's effect on two big bodied pennsylvania bucks. My deer was a eight point and the bullet completely passed through while leaving 50 cent piece sized holes through the lungs. My brother's nephew downed a huge 10 point with his.. that clipped the heart and destroyed the lungs.. yet didn't exit.
Both deer fell within thirty yards of being shot. We both were using Federal 180 grain loads.
This being said.. it's not the only choice you have for hunting in central PA. I've personally used several calibers throughout my lifetime. The 303 British the 30-06 Springfield the 350 Remington Mag the 7mm-08 Remington and the 350 Legend.. out of these fine cartridges my favorite is the 7mm-08. Which just happens to fall between the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 308 Winchester. And to me that's not a bad place to be :)
PS.. did I mention that the deer did NOT know the difference between any of the said cartridges!
Thanks for sharing Ron.. definitely enjoy your input!
The only thing I'd add is that the 7mm-08 does not fall behind the 308 Win. When shooting same weight bullets, it very slightly outperforms the 308. Not, as you note, that any deer would notice! You might look form my old video comparing 7mm-08, 260 Rem., and 308 Win.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors definitely agree with Ron.. it only falls between them due to it's caliber.
It definitely outclasses the 308 Winchester down range. Heck.. inside 800 yards it even outclasses the Creedmoor. Now.. for a non reloader like myself the two of them are more versatile. Yet.. I still choose to stick with the 7mm-08 Remington :)
After all.. it's my favorite cartridge!
Great video Ron. Thanks for explaining the .350 well. So many people think it’s a short range deer gun. But, if you use premium ammo and understand the cartridge, it will do just fine and out beyond 200yds. My custom .350 has a 12” drop at 300yds. I killed a cow elk with it yesterday and dropped it in its tracks at about 80yds. Recovered the bullet from the hide on the opposite side after it broke the shoulder on the near side.
Good shooting, Full Quiver. Congrats on all the fine elk venison.
12 at 300 is totally doable, but it's literally 3 times as much drop as a 168 grain .308.
I really enjoy shooting my .350 Ruger American, but for me it's just not the rifle to grab for long range work.
@@forrest225, we cannot used necked cartridges in southern Michigan. We are also limited on what straight walled cartridges we can use. That’s why in the Midwest the .450 and .350 are best sellers. They are two of the best options within our constricting rules.
What size bullet did you use?
@@edwardhoward4708 I used a 160gr custom high velocity load from Bear Creek Ballistics.
I shoot 240 gr xtp out of 44 mag at 1800 fps from my marlin 1894. Its a devastating load and within 150 yards is the best deer cartridge in could imagine.
I had good luck with the 200 gr. Barnes XPB out of a Ruger 77/44 carbine. The bullets are expensive and hard to find, though.
I load 240gr hp to 1400ish for my model 29, and out of my Marlin they are over 1900
240gr XTP pushed by 14grain of BlueDot out 1 4" TC Contender, but recoil is horrible in the light frame with only rifle sights, BUT I never had one deer survive 🦌
I would love to see the mini 14 offered in 350, I think it'd be an awesome modern day version of the 30 carbine! Light, short, handy and low recoiling with fairly cheap plentiful ammo... I'd buy it!
This is a modern version of the 351 Winchester Self Loader. 180Grains at about 1800 fps.
I really wish someone would do this as lever action caliber.
It begs to be in a lever gun.
357 Maximum for the win
Putting together an AR for the kids. I was thinking the 300, but one might eventually move to a place that needs a straight wall, and 350L is the better hunting round as well. It is giving me something to think about.
Finicky to handload sometimes given it headspaces on the case mouth.
Great video explaining the 350, I like how you compared it to the 30-30, I love my 30-30. However, you forgot to include the trusty .44 mag in a rifle, my family have used the .44 to drop many deer for decades.
Yes, how was that omitted?
Ron, Interesting but a little dated info now. Many of these formerly "shotgun only" , "shotgun only in certain zones" or "straight wall only" rifle cartridges are changing. Doing a quick search I could only find Illinois still with the straight wall not over 1.4" in length. Iowa, where I did some of my growing up when it was shotgun only with slugs, now allows bottle neck cases with bullet diameter of at least 0.350" but not over 0.50" and published factory data of at least 500 ft lbs muzzle energy. The following is a list (not even a complete list) of legal cartridges for rifle or handgun with a minimum 4" barrel length. The list is directly from the Iowa DNR website; 35 Whelen, 350 Legend, 358 Winchester, 375 Winchester, 40 S&W, 44 Magnum, 444 Marlin, 45 Long Colt, 45 Raptor (I never heard of it) 450 Bushmaster, 450 Marlin, 45-70 Gov't, 460 S&W, 500 S&W. 35 Remington is not mentioned but should meet the requirements.
In those "old days" the reasoning was that rifle bullets went too far in populated areas where there could be four or more farmsteads per square mile. There were plenty of guys hunting foxes with .222, .222 Remington Magnum or larger cartridges. I guess they didn't count. There are plenty of opportunities for shots of 300 yards or even more across soybean or corn stubble fields. Of course there are the hardwood creek and river bottoms where the 350 Legend's relatively short effective range would be just fine, but I think most of the cartridges on this list are much more versatile. Regarding the safety aspect, it is true that due to the changes in agricultural production, technology and economics, there are now maybe only one farmstead or residence in a square mile or even less, BUT, I guess no one told the regulators how far you can bounce a 400 grain 45-70 round. Legislation is pending in Minnesota, Michigan and other states regarding this subject.
My favorite whitetail caliber! Try it you might like it. Eastern coast thick cover!
Great book , a classic, I have a copy and I bought a lot of coppies and gave them away as presents. A larger than life character.Great show Ron,Cheers from freindly Australia.
As may have been earlier, people have been taking a 223 case, trim it to 1.60 ( the case length of a 357 Maximum) . It was referred to as a 357Maximum Rimless. This just before the 350 Legend came out.
357Maximum rimless would be a lot more versital with .357 hand gun and rifle bullets and still shoot in handgun and rifle.
I really wish someone would build a lever action chambered in 350 legend!!!
Great video, thanks for the content!
Primitive weapons season down in Louisiana I've used a single shot in 444 Marlin for several years but it's getting to be a little much for my pops and he started looking for something new and I picked him up a 350 legend for his birthday this year... then I bought one for myself. Very little recoil, extremely hard hitting and you can get a single shot hammer fired rifle that's very small and handy... not to mention if you have suppressors it suppresses very well. I was shocked at how well it performed I shot a doe at 140 yards with the 180gr winchester power point and it sounded like I hit that deer with a baseball bat and it left a blood trail a blind man could follow!!!
I first bought my trusty H&R Handy Rifle in .444 Marlin when the 45-70 was all the rage at least 15 years ago. Aside from ammo being a shit-load harder to find now, I'll take the .444 over the 45-70 any day. Bought my .444 specifically for primitive firearms season in Louisiana the year just prior to "muzzle-loader" season changing to "primitive firearms", much like they had done in MS. It IS a cannon and ain't fun to plink or anything, but it has absolutely been bad news for every deer I've taken with it....never had one even move from the spot. Dropped like a huge bag of rocks.
Another great video. Thanks for your efforts in making this. It was almost like a PSA, what you can and cannot load in your 350 Legend. Hopefully it will keep someone out of hot water.
Keep up the good work my friend.
Thanks Randy.
just found your channel, instant liked and subbed. you rock, thanks man.
My comment was in a chain of others and I thought it was worth repeating (imagine that right 😝)
We live in a shotgun/straight walled state. My folks have always had long guns… a shotgun for deer and a .22 for varmint. My dad has no problem still shooting his 12 gauge. My mom can shoot it if she has to but cycling the gun and making follow ups isn’t easy. She pays for the (dis)pleasure of shooting the 12g.
When I learned about the 350 in the AR platform, I immediately saw the potential to fill two roles. A great deer rifle extending the range and providing better accuracy…as Ron mentions it effective brings the 30/30 to these straight walled states and areas. It also lets my mom have a gun she can shoot and follow up if his forbid she ever has to defend the home herself. She can load a 20 round magazine effortlessly, charge the gun and then it’s a matter of marksmanship with a light recoiling gun in a proven platform.
It made me feel better for both of them… it filled two roles. It extends the one gun household as the family inside ages.
It was interesting to see you mention the .356 and .375 Winchester’s. You don’t hear much said about those cartridges, but they are some of my main go to rifles for deer.
Only the southern half of Michigan is (was) called "shotgun only zone" which also includes using muzzle loaders. Since the 350 and 450 have come out, they are by far the most popular gun for deer in Michigan, at least the southern lower. I own 2 and think they are pretty darn good at what they do. Ron, you do some great vids. Always learning.
@@wicked650s I agree with you on that and 125 would be an even safer max distance.
Thats what is nice about being up in northern Michigan you can use anything you want. My 2nd cousin hunted with a 300 win mag sometimes. I was like you think that might be a little over kill.
This is simply not true. The energy carried by the .350 is perfectly acceptable for ranges beyond 200yds. In fact, I have about 10 hunts on my channel showing just that. One was 215yds and had a pass through shot with a cheap, 150gr Winchester XP. Deer ran about 75yds with a fantastic blood trail. Couldn’t ask for better performance. We’ve taken about 15 deer with it so far and have excellent success
@@wicked650s, we can shoot 10 does a year and 2 bucks. Plus, I’m a video producer. I’m taping other people’s hunts all the time. I videotaped 22 hunts last year. So, I get a chance to get new cartridges and test them out. And have friends help me.
@@wicked650s I’m pretty sure in his comment he said “we’ve taken about 15 deer”
Love the videos. Love seeing people that show interest in cartridge details
Thank you, Travis! I appreciate your support.
Great Video Great Info As Usual My Thanks 👍🤠
Good choice for Ohio deer hunting.
Glad you are going over this cartridge. I've had my eye on a rifle in this cartridge.
I am so glad you did this. I hunt Ohio where I was using the 444 marlin and suffering thru the recoil. I now shoot the legend in my AR rifle with a vortex 1x4x20. What a great shooting gun, little recoil, it has taken a load of deer. Great video Ron. This cartridge is great also for hog hunting here in Florida where I live. When Ohio went to straight wall I was hunting with a 45 cal smokeless MZ and just fine. Never was a slug gun shooter. Bought the 444 Marling in a beautiful Marlin rifle. It was a shoulder beater. When the 350 came out I built an AR gun for it, last deer rifle I'll use in Ohio. It is a joy to shoot for plinking and for hunting. Merry Christmas Ron and to ur family. Was waiting on you to do this cartridge.
My first deer rifle was a 444 Marlin. I still have it. It is a shoulder thumper for sure!
I had been trying to find a lever gun in 444. However they are not legal in lower Michigan, which surprised me. A buddy of mine at work has his Grandpa's old Winchester in 444. He has since retired it, and is working on making a display case for it along with some of his Grand dad's old hunting tags too.
Thanks Mike. Merry Christmas to you and yours!
I'll take the 444 off your hands ;)
@@OldSchoolParatrooper send me your email
What a great video series.
G'day Mr spomer big fan of your channel from down under in oz. And the book hell west and crooked is sure a good read still available here for 20$ .keep up the great work
I have had a 350 Legend for just over 2 years now . I hunt whitetails in Michigan with it. And just love the way it performs . 6 deer in 2 years an not 1 has made it past 60 yards after the shot , an shot at ranges from 40 yards out to 180 yards. To me this is one of the best deer guns on the market. Prefect for anyone , youth , woman just a great round.
Sounds like exactly what I need for hunting in Iowa!
Just picked up a savage axis in 350 legend for my 13yr old daughter. She's been using my 44 magnum lever gun but I hated to put a scope on it so now she's got her own hunting rifle.
P
60 yards is a long way. How about a 3006? They drop in their tracks. So the 450 BM is close to the 3006 in a straight wall only state
@@chadwhite7290 Chad my location in southern Michigan we can not use rifles for deer. We are limited to shotguns, muzzleloaders or straight walled cartridges.
Great video. I can use all the normal calibers here in New York but I bought a .350 legend right away. Cheap savage rifle shoots sub Moa at 100 yards. My wife loves it. Easy for her to shoot
Best Christmas gift ever. I've been waiting all year for you to cover this, thank you Ron and Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas 0008mj
As an Ohio hunter, I have been very curious about the .350 legend but the rifles are a bit limited (both in variety and availability). I have settled on a Ruger 77/44 because of its light weight (about 4 1/2 pounds) with a Leupold 6x scope (also light and now discontinued). Using Underwood ammo, it’s very deer capable.
Local shop had a distributor going out of business. Which landed them a stainless 77/44 in the synthetic camo stock. Paid a pretty price for her. But I love a 44 magnum rifle. And I suspect there is a grandchild in my future that will be learning to hunt with it.
Great light weight walking stick, what's not to like.
.350 Legend is also an excellent subsonic round.
Built a 300 blk ar for my kids to use for deer hunting. My daughter was apprehensive when she saw me shoot it at first, but ended up loving it after she shot it the first time. Just glad I don't live in a highly restrictive state.
Always a pleasure Ron , Great work.
Ron, great vid. I have put 2 in the freezer as has my oldest son already this season with the .350L.
Both he and I have other deer rifles but where we normally hunt ya don't get shots much further than 150 yds or so. So we spent a few hundred bucks and bought uppers for our AR's and we have new deer rifles. No need to bring out the 30-06's.
How you described it as a modern 30-30 is exactly how I have described it. It's very accurate and we haven't had one run further than 25 yds. So for our purposes it's perfect.
Interesting cartridge indeed. At one point thought about getting one as I live/deer hunt in Ohio. Went the other way and went 357 magnum. Plenty of power and reach for woods hunting you regularly encounter here. Enjoyed the video Ron!
I picked up a .357 single shot Henry this year. It's a beauty to shoot, quiet and deadly to 125 yards!
@@Jml5447
An old friend of mine, now already passed on, had a H&R single shot, I think, chambered in .357 Magnum and had it rechambered in .357 Maximum. He told me before he passed that it was his most favored deer hunting rifle.
I've heard that there are some
.357 Maximum still around, one is the Dan Wesson .357 Maximum revolver but they are few and far between.
I'm constantly amazed as to how many different cartridges exist! Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching!
I bought one last year...ruger american ranch model. Im recoil sensitive due to several shoulder and neck surgeries....(dont tell my Dr i still shoot my big bores) I was shocked on how accurate it was....The ammo was cheap...before ammogeddon/covid. I had an AR type scope but it had very little zoom power....so I put a caliber specific scope on it....350 Leupold. WOW WOW WOW. My son loves to shoot it...he took a doe this year with it. I may get an AR rifle in the caliber....but it does need specific mags for that....the mags look like AR but are slightly different. Btw the recoil seems lighter then the 30-30 in my opinion. Glad you did this video.
What was the cost? 350 in Michigan wasn't that common in my area. Cost was the same or a bit more than the 450.
About 1.50-1.75 a pop .
Nice thing about my 450 was I could hand load cheap 45 cal bullets (well back when you could buy stuff)
@@travisrolison9646 i was paying $15 for a box of 145 grn FMJ and $19-21 for assorted hunting rounds. But NOW…..if i can find it….$30-35 a box
@@bradbo3 a little cheaper then but not crazy .
I got the 450 bushmaster as it came out first and in the ruger cuz at the time that's all who had it.
Now id probably get one of the cheap CVA single shots or something.
Probably still get the 450 as it seems a bit more versatile and if I can ever get a 45 they can share bullets for reloading plinking rounds.
I would love if they made a lever action in 350 legend or 450 bushmaster.
The AR Pistol build I'm making is a .350 Legend with a 10-1/2" barrel. Should be good for some flame out shooting sessions in the evenings! I think it'll be great to carry on the farm for wacking pesky raccoons, coyotes and ground hogs mainly. We'll see how she works soon!
They will be some very dead raccoons for sure!!
That thing will take a raccoon apart!
@@murphyspell7125 I am a reloader, so I would be doing some lower velocity loads with fast burning powdered for the short barrel. They would be more like .357 maximum loads using high end .357 Magnum loads. They have worked very well with my .357 maximum H&R Handirifle. Just nice compact and semi-automatic. ;)
Thanks Ron another good video.Happy with what I have but you never know.Wife says I'm a legend in my own mind anyway.haha.
I live in Texas and I have the ruger ranch rifle in 350. Great truck gun and drops hogs in their tracks.
Interesting to read all the comments on the 44 mag. as well as some others on better options. I have lived and hunted in a restricted area for 45 years. Slugs are not better than the 350 legend for deer hunting in my personal experience. I have shot, loaded and hunted with 357 and 44 mag. for over 40 years. I was hunting with handguns for a long time and had rifles just for fun before those were legal. We started hunting with the rifles as soon as the regulations changed. 44 mag rifles are not highly accurate. Often less accurate than a scoped handgun. Bullets don't do too well holding together at rifle velocities. We jumped on the 450 bushmaster when it came out. Significantly more accurate, harder hitting and flatter shooting than the mag. Now we have changed over to the 350 for the last two years. Sub MOA flattest shooting option we have. Has killed every deer we hit and none has gone over 30 yards. It is a fun fun to shoot, and we have been able to find ammo this year at a reasonable price. Kids love it. I haven't seen a box of 44, 357, 243.... In a long time. I like the 355 bullets. There are good ones in factory ammo and more options for reloaders. 9mm bullets make great plinking ammo.
I agree with you about the lack of accuracy in 44mag rifles, especially Marlins. I mean shooting soda cans at 100yd and 1gal jugs at 200yd with open sights just don't cut it. And really why use a 240gr soft point at rifle velocity when you can have a hollow point handgun bullet fragment and give inferior performance doing what it's not designed to do.
450 is superior to the 350 in everything but recoil. The data supports this.
The 44 Remington Magnum might give the 350 Legend a run for its money, especially inside of 150yds.
I agree. Paul Harrell has a great video comparing the 44 MAG with the 30-30...check it out: th-cam.com/video/PNiDwprzoo4/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=PaulHarrell
That's highly doubtful 😂😂
@@brianwilliams2719 there's only a difference of 100 ft/lbs to 150 ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards for factory loads. Those differences might be mitigated by handloading. It's not like the 350 is light years more powerful than 44 mag. The 44mag also handles much heavier projectiles than the 350, so in thick woods I'd prefer heavier pills. The 350 came out yesterday, so don't dismiss the 44 Remington Magnum like it's incapable.
@@406MountainMan
yes and no. Depends on the gun being used and if using factory loads or hand loads. It also depends on why it is one may look at the two for options to begin with, such as if they already have a lever action in 44 or maybe they already own an AR and just want to assemble a new upper. For the cost and what you get, the 350L is hard to beat, especially when an AR upper can be built for less than $300 and the ammo is plentiful and not over priced.
I think strictly from a performance stand point, within a 100 yards, if a good shot is made, both will drop a deer in it's tracks. In thick brush or heavily wooded area's, that 200+ grain bullet from a 44 mag is pretty hard to beat. I can see the 350 deflecting much easier due to lighter weight and it's shape. Imo, both are great for putting meat in the freezer hands down.
Definitely!! Past 8 years I've used my marlin in 44 magnum and have been impressed. Trying out the legend this year
I love this round.
Another winner, Ron!!! As usual, you covered the subject very well and supported your statements with facts and figures. I'm a high velocity "Jack O'Conner" kind of guy at heart (when my friends followed Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris, I was reading O'Conner!). But I had no idea that some states were so restrictive on rifle cartridges. That being the case, you make a great point re: straight walled cartridges. Thanks for another very informative analysis! - GeezerWheels (in SW Colorado)
Thanks for this post on the 350 Legend. I have one. It's a joy to fire. This was a very informative post.
I first saw 223 cartridges being made in wildcat versions in the early eighties. They were developed and introduced by J.D. Jones for long range pistol metallic silhouette matches. Being able to use them in AR rifles is the big thing now. However; there is nothing new about the Legend except the name.🎄🎅🎁
Another awesome video Mr. Ron. I’d like to see you do a hunting video with the 350 Legend.
I just got a .350 legend upper for my AR15 and love the cartridge so far,got it for an upcoming Hog hunt in Texas.I like the versatility of weight available you can go light and fast or heavy also like can load 9mm pistol lead I already have for my pistol.
Thank you, Mr Spomer! I bought a Ruger American in 350 just after you reviewed that rifle, and it has become both my and my daughter's favorite rifle because it does not kick much at all, and it is very effective on our South Texas hogs. In fact this has become a very popular round for hunters and farmers around here out of AR 15s for hog culling work. The Midwest has competition from us over here in Texas in our love for this cartridge. It is also easily available where other ammunition is scarce and Academy and other stores have good quantities of it though you are restricted to three boxes a day.
Merry Christmas, Sir, and God Bless!
I run the .357 bullets through a Sizing die. Also the hornady 165gr ftx works really well
@@saulgood6190 yes they are, with some load development I was able to get consistent 1/2 groups at 100 yards. I've been using lil gun powder but it's really easy to run into pressure signs. So I've been trying h110 with good results.
@@saulgood6190 I'm getting well over 2400 with 165gr ftx bullets was up to 2570 but started piercing primers. With 147gr bullets I'm just about 2500. But I'll tell you the little gun powder seems to be very temperature sensitive. I'm loading 25.5 grains with a winchester primer. I've used cci primers and had no pressure signs but less accuracy. Was thinking of using the cci 450 primers
@@saulgood6190 h110 works well, my friend has been using cfe black with good results but I haven't had any personal experience with it
@@afireinside33110 Ramshot Enforcer, Accurate 11FS & Reloader No 9 also work great in the 350. Those are my go to powders for my 2 Legends.
@@mattthrasher3674 good to know, where can I find load data for them?
A couple of things to mention. There are rifles chambered for 357mag. Which greatly improves performance. To me one of the biggest thing 350 legend does is it improves the argument for the AR-15 as a hunting rifle. This is a true hunting caliber which helps improve the argument. It helps show the public that the industry sees the AR as a hunting rifles and not just a "assault weapon".
I love this cartridge. I want a mini 14 (mini 350)
Very good video, Ron. Your understanding of rifle cartridges is on a different level than most people. I suspect that is because of the handloading you have done during your lifetime. When I look at the 350 Legend, I see a cartridge borne out of desperation. It lacks a rim, a shoulder and a belt, which means it has no way of ensuring proper headspace. It is one of just a handful of high-pressure cartridges with this limitation, and it means case length is truly critical, since this round must headspace on the case mouth. Having reloaded another such case, the 30 Carbine, for many years I can tell you that they are a pain in the neck! Too short and you might get a FTF, due to a light primer strike. Too long and the action might jam up on you because it can't close all the way. You must measure case length every single time you resize them, with trimming an absolute requirement, even if they are just a few thousandths too long. Just like the 30 Carbine, 350 Legend cases cannot be made from any other case. They are unique, due to the compromises Winchester made to get them to still feed and extract from an AR/MSR platform.
I will also mention that Indiana has REALLY weird regulations on deer hunting rifle cartridges. They base their regulations entirely on the case dimensions, which must be no longer than 1.800" (as you mention) and the bullet diameter which must be .357" (now amended to include .355"). However, in Indiana the case does not have to be straight-walled! What I've been doing for many years now is simply trimming a 35 Remington down to 1.800" and then loading with normal data. (I actually rework 303 British brass down to 35 Remington dimensions and run the pressures up around 50,000psi, out of a strong, single-shot action, but that's a different story.)
The 30-30 Winchester LeverEvolution loads are much more powerful than anything the 350 Legend puts out. The 350 only compares well with the 30-30 if you use the old, flat-nosed loads and if you're going to compare a brand new cartridge to the 30-30, you might as well compare it to the newest load technology available for it! :)
In the world of marketing calling it a legend is brilliant because it brings to mind the straight-walled cartridges of old which there were many and some certainly became Legends. You and I both know that is a long list.
That's exactly what it is, marketing. There is a lot of BS in these comments.
@@hardball107 lol okay buddy
Fun shooting round!
I had to re-watch this post because after seeing what this short little cartridge does to good sized Ohio deer I became an instant fan. If I am going to be able to hunt deer in Ohio with my grandsons I can't legally use my favorite rifle and round, a .35 Rem in Marlin 336 platform. My 12 year-old grandsons put the hurt on two nicely sized bucks last year, both taken at 80 yards and 138 yards measured, one shot kills with the .350. So, I bought one. I was tired of using the .45-70. It is way too much firepower for 150 lb. deer. I bought a Savage 110 in left hand bolt. It is a very accurate rifle and it punches way above it's weight. You can hunt Florida hogs and bear as well as the deer. It's a pretty nice all around platform for this kind of hunting. I was hoping someone would build a lever action for the round but looking at the pressure indices a traditional lever action will not be able to handle the pressures. However, a Browning BLR or Henry Long Ranger could be safely chambered for the .350 Legend.
Thanks for showing the difference between the 350 and other rounds like the 450. I don't think I'm ready to switch from my 357 lever gun just yet. The 350 legend single shot rifles are still pricey
What distances do you take deer with your 357 mag lever gun?
@@johnfontenot7861 less than 100 or so yards up here in Ohio. The woods are pretty dense in the NE part, unlike southern OH
Ahh yes local legislation brings about weird stuff sometimes. In a part of switzerland the minimal legal caliber for most game is 10.2mm. The traditional one that has been around for ages is the 10.3x60r and a few years back RWS released the 10.3x68mag.
Had to come back and watch this again, getting my kid his first deer rifle, this look’s perfect
Well this is the first time hearing some states restrict certain calibers to hunt.
Good thing I still got my archery and Atl Atl to use.
Great video as always, never heard of the 350 Legend until I saw this.
I cant wrap my head around the logic of bottlenecked cartridge laws... why would the shape of the cartridge matter? I can see min and max bullet diameters and limits on bullet energy but why attack the shape? It's just nonsense to me.
The laws are still silly but there is logic to it. Straight wall cartridges cannot develop high velocities therefore limiting their range by default. All modern cartridges are bottle necked for a reason, high velocity. As far as i know this is the first NEW straight walled rifle round mass produced in nearly a century.
@@lincolnharris3191 well its still silly. I was thinking about energy but not velocity alone. You can still have a very powerful rifle without velocity. But I guess in states with a high population density it couldn't hurt o reduce the effective range of hunting rifles.
It's weird here in Indiana , Public land hunting is all .35 straight wall cartridge calibers and up . On the other hand you can hunt deer on private property with anything above a 243 , but you can also use any caliber for coyotes on Public land 🤨
@@lincolnharris3191 A straight walled 45/90 can reach 3000 fps with 300 grain bullets. The laws don't have any logic today.
@@russellkeeling9712 LOW RECOIL
The 450 Bushmaster is an artillery piece!! Way too much recoil, and tears up too much meat. 350 Legend is amazing for it’s small size. My 14 year old hunted this year with an AR-15 I built in this caliber.
It really depends on how you set up the gun. It needs a heavy buffer system and a adjustable gas block /muzzle brake and I have no problems going through 100 rounds at the range. It does leave a bigger would Chanel but only by 1/4 inch and it’s amazing in heavy brush it just trains wrecks right through brush.
Rumor has it, Illinois will allow straight- walled cartridges for the 2023 firearms deer season! The 350 Legend sounds like my choice.
Excellent video. Was really considering buying the S&W M350 handgun already.
In my handloading for 350 legend, I've found that anything from .355 to .357 works fine. Just gotta be a little cautious with starting powder load on the .357 bullets.
"Just gotta be a little cautious with starting powder load on the .357 bullets."
That begs the question; why didn't they just go for .357/.358 to prevent this problem?
@@phillycheesetake Probably to keep us handloaders from shooting 125gr XTPs @18,000fps at deer lol
I have been experimenting with using the .35 Remington bullets, sized down to .357. This is a painstakingly slow process but I believe I can get the 200 gr bullet to work. I have had a couple case failures with a round nose bullet and Lil Gun powder, and had to drop my initial starting load a lot when I started to try the 200 gr FTX bullet (that bulet is much longer than the round nose) due to diminished case capacity. The experimenting continues.
@@Halfmilesniper I really like Lil Gun. I use it for some of my Ruger Only 45Colt loads. There’s an old TH-cam video out there where a guy reverse engineered the 180gr. Buffalo Bore .357 round and turns out, it’s a big charge of Lil Gun. I like that it gives more of a load range than H110/W296.
The ballistics are real close to a .357 Maximum, if you were to fire the Maximum from a carbine.
Concerning the 38-55, I've been seeing a good number of Winchester '94 on Gunbroker (new manufactured) chambered in it. It's come back due to CAS and other black powder sports.
Winchester is just trying to keep up with Henry, who offers the 38.55 in their side gate lever action rifles, and can't seem to build them fast enough. The 38.55 loading from Buffalo Bore ammunition is accurate and hard hitting for hunting.
In my opinion, Winchester didn't "develop" the 350 Legend but commercialized wildcatters 357 Max AR like 300 blk from 300 Whisper. And claiming the "same ballistics as a 30-30" has been shown to be a bit of a stretch.
But..... they saved me from becoming a wildcatter and I really like the little thumper. Now if I can figure out how to load 350gr subsonic...
Also these ridiculous hunting laws arbitrarily restricting calibers has resurrected the .357 max in my area, its just under the maximum allowed (by the king) case length.
@@fruitfarmfords8243 I know. Leave it to non-gunner politicians to do things better than thousands of self-made ballistic geeks.
You beat me to that same comment . Looks like a jazzed up 357 max to me too .
I read that book twentyfive years ago. He has a whole series. That is on bad man. Horse back one hand shooting buffs at a run.
Good job, your always very thorough. Greatly appreciated.👏👏👏
I love this cartridge. Have several rifles in it including an AR platform functions perfectly and does an amazing job on large mule deer out to 300yds
2 things you could've added 1. For the most part the 350 legend is a rimless 357 max 2. For handloading it shoots a 9mm so reloading plinking ammunition can be done pretty in expensively (I don't own one, I am just a bullet head)
A 35 Legend in the Ruger AR platform is really tempting me to spend money that I shouldn't. If any of y'all have first hand experience (good or bad) could you please share it? God Bless, Merry Christmas, Shoot Straight! - Hedge
Great video Ron!
I am shooting the 350 out of an AR platform and loving it!! It is a pig killer!!
I had a Ruger AR 556. At somewhere around 750 rounds the gas block came loose and I had a cool looking single shot after that. Sent it back to Ruger and they fixed it. Still was aggravating. I got rid of the Ruger and bought an AAC 350 Legend upper for my Bushmaster. Haven't shot it much. Just enough to zero it.
I have a 350 in a ar-15. I love it more than the .223
I have been using my ruger ar 556 chambered in .350 legend for the last 3 years for gun season in Iowa, absolutely love it. With browning bxr 155gr, I can easily shoot 1.5” 3 shot groups at 200yrds. 4x12 leupold on top, this gun never disappoints.
@@sjs1828 Nice! I haven't tried mine yet.
I used a 350 Legend this year for deer hunting and it works. I shot a big buck and a 150lb doe with it. They were both within 75 yards and ran less than 75 yards after shot. I shoot AR's a lot and just wanted to use one this year. If you are shooting inside 100 yards like most of us are in Wisconsin, its a winner. Thanks for the great videos!
Love the 350 legend been loading 147gr xtp on mine
Though there aren’t a lot of “hunting” rifles chambered in it, I’m curious how the 30 carbine would fair for a hand loader against whitetail?
Not good.
Terrible. In mn before we had stricter legal arms for deer our only two laws were minimum of 22cal centerfire, and NOT 30carbine.
I mesured all my Winchester 180 grain and is .355. The specs on SAAMI for this is .357 - .002. Think about this. The real reason I feel the design is mostly marketing and the selling point is deer cartridge. There is no magic that this will kill a deer any better than a 243. It serves a niche that it will do for deer in straight wall States. Main point, it fits in AR platform, many all ready out there and a 9mm barrel. Much more opportunity for ammo usage in an AR. A friend of mine shot a monster buck at 40 yards and he ran. Put 2 more shots. Never had a buck run when hit with a 12 guage 1 oz slug. Not to be negative about it but will see if it is really a legend like a pre 64 mod 94 32 Winchester Special or a 405 Winchester of The Legend Teddy Roosevelt. Ha.
As with any cartridge shot placement is king. But I wouldn't judge it by that. My son and I have put 4 in the freezer this year.
From 70yds to 180 yds. None ran further than 25yds. It works well when used properly, about like any other caliber. 👍
I've used a 12 gauge a lot and I can tell you that every deer I shot with a 1 ounce slug has ran at least 30 yards or more. I had one run over 75 yards, luckily it was towards the truck so that worked out. However, I've dropped every deer I shot with buck shot. I've have not had one make it more than 5 yards and they fall over or nose dive into the ground. These are all shoulder or behind the shoulder shots. The plus side to using a 12 gauge slug, the hole is so big there's no way anyone will miss that blood trail.
Great round, I've taken three deer with it. Longest was 110 yards and this year I took a six pointer at 35 yards. Great round.
I like your analysis comparing the rounds from a deer hunting perspective. I am in Iowa and for the past couple years I have been using a .450 Bushmaster with a Savage 110 and taken a couple deer with it. The included muzzle break makes recoil less than my slug gun, but it is LOUD. I am going to get .350 upper for my AR and try that this year due to your analysis.
Super interesting, I never really knew why this round existed but I have seen it around as I am an AR guy and you see some rifles chambered for it out in the world. My question (and I promise, it's an earnest one) is why do states care if the cartridge wall is straight or bottlenecked? What would be the rationale, it can't be effectiveness as Ron mentioned several others in or around that caliber that had shoulders that would be effective. Is it a power/velocity thing? Larger projectile in a narrower case would slow it down to keep misguided shots from going upteen miles before petering out?
In midwest states that were shotgun only the rules for deer hunting changed to allow straight wall cartridges. Im guessing the thought being they won't go as far, so as you said velocity more or less.
MJA, My understanding is the latter. Concern over hypervelocity projectiles over traveling and striking unintended targets.
The thought is they don't want a high velocity projectile traveling long distances and becoming a danger. Here in PA there are special regulation areas, such as Allegheny County where Pittsburgh is, around Philly, part of Washington County etc where deer are plentiful, grow large, and population densities are very high, both humans and deer. Allegheny County produces some incredibly nice bucks most years. I've seen some very nice bucks bedding in people's front yards in neighborhoods around Pittsburgh. In these areas Shooting something like a .300 mag or .270 in such a densely populated area could prove dangerous theoretically. For years hunters could only tote shotguns firing slugs into the woods because of that risk. I believe at one time buckshot was also approved for use. The 350 legend gives hunters a lighter option that recoils much less and still falls out quickly at more than intermediate distances while still offering plenty of power to kill a whitetail.
I am happy this round came about and is legal, along with some others, to hunt deer with in the traditionally "shotgun only" states and areas. Hope that helps.
@brob 3030 thanks for the 411 to you and all the people who answered. I live out west (Utah) so we don't have such restrictions, although I do remember hearing about shotgun only hunting in the northeast.
the rationale is about stray projectiles hurting someone. here in SE Michigan, in the shotgun zone, that's the logic behind it, topography and population density issues, most of our shots are well within 150 yards. most of the time, they're 80 yards or less. the logic is that with rounds that have a ballistic trajectory similar to a shotgun slug, that it's safer for bystanders should a hunter miss their intended target.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Your vote carries a lot of weight with me. So many mixed reviews on this 350 legend! This cartridge came out after I bought myself a 300blk.
I had looked at 30-30 but the "new" Marlin was not up to par. After the lever kept jamming at the dealer i said "no way".
I have said this is a modern cowboy cartridge. NOW WHEN IS SOMEONE GOING TO MAKE THIS INTO A LEVER-ACTION!?
A good rimmed version for cowboy lever guns would be the 357 Maximum revolver cartridge, but SAAMI specs are just 40,000 psi.
Yes. But I'm finding 350 legend in Walmart and sometimes 308 and nothing else! I've never seen 357 maximum anywhere. I've been buying 350 legend even though I don't have the rifle. Come on level action! I will probably get a bolt action.
Good stuff thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Few deer over the years with the 350 legend. Used the 180Grain soft point by winchester this year just as good as the 150 grain power point. Also, soft point feeds better in the AR compared to the power point.
I'm a southern MI hunter as well, and for the life of me, I can't understand why this stupid state imposed the length restrictions on the straight walled rounds that are legal for deer here in the southern lower penn. It is supposedly based on velocity etc generated by rounds under a certain length in straight walled rounds, but the 38-55 and 375 would fit right in, only they are too long. SMH. Even the 444 and 45-70 would fall within those speed parameters and thus limited distance capabilities. I own a beautiful 1979 BB 94 and it would be the gun I used for deer down here if it were legal.I know other states allow it that were previously shotgun or ML only, so I hope MI pulls their head out of their bum and change the current law to include such rounds before too long.
Yes, various F&G regs. are weird, sometimes contradictory. Gives us something to think about, complain about, and develop new cartridges to get around!
We have to keep on the DNR's tail and our legislators so hopefully we can have a vote to change these laws. Luckily I'm up north close enough to the limited deer zone boundary I can use whatever I want where I hunt, usually the Flat River Game area, but the laws are rediculous. I can't hunt deer with my 30-30 in Berry county state game lands, but I can hunt a coyote with a 223 if I wanted or even a 50BMG. Makes no sense, lol.
If I lived in a state that didn't allow a 30-30 made before my grandpa was born I would not live there more than the time it took to get out
How's that logical.
Why wasn’t it allowed
@@susannschmidt6915 i think it's because of population.
@@susannschmidt6915 The irrational fear that the bullet will travel too far and hit someone. Which is absurd when you consider most people hunt many miles away from any humans.
Generally speaking, bottlenecked cartridges have the bottleneck because the casing is wider than the projectile, allowing for more powder, and this higher bullet velocities, and further potential range.
In Michigan it’s half the state pretty much just where it’s more populated
Thanks
Great video Ron and superb analysis! Some of my Ohio buddies love this new 350 LEGEND! For, me while hunting in shotgun only states (CT, NJ, & MD), I'm sticking with either my SAVAGE 220 or my trusty old JC HIGGINS Model 20 in 12 GA with standard or hand loaded slugs! The SAVAGE with the right Remington shells will shoot with rifle accuracy for sure out to 200 yards and beyond!
It’s so Awsome nobody buys it 😂
I will stick with my 444 Marlin Super Legend. 😎
The 350 Legend is also a S&W revolver cartridge. Just bought one.
My grandfather had buck racks hanging all over his barn just outside Appomattox Virginia, had a black bear skin rug he got hunting as a teenager in black Mt NC. The man man never owned a rifle in his life, just a 12g single shot shot gun. The man could sneak up on a Bob cat and if something was off on his 450 acres he could tell immediately. Turns out he just very cautious. He was a better moonshinner than hunter , never caught by any government law tax enforcement agencies. Hardly ever made sugar shine mostly always malted corn he grew on his farm. My rambling point is I think there was a law way back then on high powered rifles in certain counties and if you own a 450 acre farm you're going to get big bucks every year with a shotgun
I bought my first deer rifle 3 years ago and it was the CVA Cascade 350 Legend I love it and it's a rifle me my wife and kids can all use very versatile rifle