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what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
For someone who has been extensively trained on the proper use of a USGI Lensatic, calculating magnetic declination with every bearing and willing to carry a clinometer and protractor with them, then I might agree with you. However, for the person who has not, then their actual "survival" might hinge on having a base plate with a mirrored lid for more accurate sighting(and signaling for help), adjustable declination so they can get to where they are aiming on the map, etc etc. Personally, you have the right idea, by owning both and being trained, but too many people buy something like a Cammenga for the cool factor and "trusted by military", so hopefully they never get in trouble and don't really need it to stay alive.
@@greenman5255 hi, what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately the direction of magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there any quality accurate ones that will stay accurate for a life time or at least a few decades?
I found out about the store after I purchased a grid tool from Amazon. But I still need to get the 🧭 from your store. Seems like your price on the map tools are much better than others. Thanks!
As a member of an Oregon SAR unit, it is absolutely amazing the number of “outdoorsman” we run into that state they “never use a compass.....know this area like the back of my hand.” We usually meet them twice.
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
@@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32 I read a lot of reviews that they develop bubbles after days, weeks, months, or even come with a bubble... this is why I am asking around for a quality compass...
Great video brother! I had 20 years in Special Forces. If my pockets were not deep or I was not navigating all the time, I would buy a cheap base plate compass. I can navigate just as well with it. I also can drop and toss a baseplate and may get a scratch on it. However, I LOVE the mil spec lensetic because of the tritium (radiactive) glow in the dark. However, all too often, less experienced people make the gear selection above the skill set. Better a guy who can navigate than one with the best compass. When you learn to navigate well, the choice of compass will be minutia. Of course, the topic was which is better. Thanks for your great content!
I carry both, I'll use the base plate compass for map work then use the lenstatic for actual navigation. That uses the strongest features of each and almost removes the negatives. It also gives some redundancy so long as you don't keep both in the same pocket or pack.
Nice! I've used the Cammenga Lensatic for years turkey hunting in Oregon. Find a nice spot in a far clearing, write down the bearing, do a pace count and hang out in the brush, and go as far as you want, etc. Ive seen some TH-camrs talk down this compass for various reasons while I've been in hail, sleet, snow, altitude, desert, dust storms, open water and heavy bush and it has been spot on every time! Some folks say its hard to use on a map because of declination issues. Nope. Orient your map then turn map with compass on top, (easterly, western US or westerly, eastern US) to the required declination number. Your map is good to go as long as you don't move it. you've changed it from Magnetic north to True north. Remember, declination numbers change so you need to get current numbers for your area. Like your vids!
" ...north-seeking end of the needle". Thanks for using the correct terminology! Many nav students assume that this end of the needle is the north pole of a magnet.
Just reaching out to let you know that your compass and nav videos are some of the best on TH-cam. Recently been teaching a few friends who grew up on GPS how to work with a compass and I’ve been pointing them to your stuff to fill in the gaps. My take is that I carry both but prefer the lensatic for navigating and working on the move but the baseplate is great for planning at home or camp. Here in the highlands of Appalachia you don’t get a lot of long, straight, shots so the lensatic is great for traveling using a ton of waypoints with minimal deviation, or boxing around the occasional sheer mountain side. I’d be stoked if Cammenga made a version with a 1:24k scale to work just a little better with the USGS topo maps, but that’s a pipe dream since the volume would never match government sales.
Wow - I appreciate that! I think that would be awesome if they did too. I need to contact them again on some stuff, will see if I get any feedback or not.
great video and your presentation is outstanding. I had my dad's prismatic compass from WWII that he used in the Pacific. it came in a leather case; with markings all around the sides of the brass base; don't know much about who made it and I gave it to my son who had 22 years in the army. He has my dad's map case & his maps of the different islands and Tokyo. His maps have penciled notes for his artillery batteries. Thank you and take care. The Woodlands, Texas
Sounds like the British made Francis Barker MK111 see a nice restoration here jpmoeller.com/2017/07/22/francis-barker-mkiii-prismatic-compass/ you may wish to tell your son to be careful as they are quite radioactive due to the old radium paints used for night illumination. They still make them and are still used by the British today - I have one they are called Francis Barker MK73 now - pretty much the same except they use safer tritium for the illumination. Probably the best handheld compass available anywhere.
Just last Spring I replaced the Cammenga lensatic compass that I’ve had since 1978 (with a new Cammenga). I have a compass in every bag, but my Cammenga is the one I use on every trip into the bush. Of course, Cammenga makes a fine baseplate compass too.
Great video. I prefer the lensatic because it's pretty much a point and shoot kinda deal. If you hunt from a tree stand and you shoot a deer that disappears into a treeline it's easy just to shoot an azimuth,then climb down and know just where to start looking.Especially in Florida where it's usually pretty short visibility when you're on the ground.
That's perfectly true. I used to use it for the same reason as a boy digging ginseng. But, if you use it with a map, it's very easy to make a mistake over several miles if you don't adjust for declination properly. In your case a short distance isn't an issue.
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
As I was sitting on my motorcycle looking at a map, a car stopped & asked if I was lost. I replied "Sure am, but if I wasn't lost I wouldn't be having any fun!"
Iam subbing just for how good you are at talking, and the culture in the video really shows to a Canadian like me. Wanted to get a personal compass for my future career in the Infantry
Good video. With modern Topo maps I’ve seen they have an enlarged declination scale at the bottom. You can lay the Lensatic along the declination angle and orient the map by turning the map and the compass until North is lined up on the compass. Then you can just take your bearing as you’ve adjusted for declination.
I've always owned a Lensatic compass but only knew how to find north. Ha After watching several of your videos, heck I'm full of compass knowledge. I'm also the proud owner of an H3. Wow. I am enjoying your videos.
Sorry my last comment turned to gibberish. For me, and I have never been in the military. But I grew up using a Silva Baseplate compass and used it in the BSA. However, On the CDT hiking for many months I only took and will take again when I return here in a few months my Camenga Lensatic compass. It is reliable, true and trustworthly and most importantly will hold up to the daily abuse. Thank you for the fine training videos.
Good video. I own both and use them both. Lensatic for my precise movement and spotting. My baseplate is always out for quick glances to keep me in the shed
Who in the hell could give any of this guy's videos a 'thumbs down'?? I don't get it. Anyway...I have both types. The baseplate is ideal for the map working, but the Cammenga is gonna' be more accurate in the field. Way, way tougher too. These Cammenga's are built like tanks. I basically treat mine as baseplate compass for the map and the lensatic compass for the field work. Works well for me.
I began using a Silva Ranger in 1975 when I started cruising timber, and it’s the one I know and trust. I think that’s the way we are with a compass. The one we know becomes the one we trust.
As already said below, the transparent baseplate makes it *much* easier to orientate a map when planning, but the Cammenga is great for taking a bearing when navigating. I suppose if you want the best of both worlds in a single compass the Suunto mirror is a good option.
Binge watching. Great refresher and learning things I didn't know. Thanks Bill. I love my Cammenga. I carry one of each type, my Cammenga 27 and a mirrored baseplate compass.
Great video. It definitely helped me make up my mind for the baseplate compass. As awesome as the Cammanga is, what sold me on the baseplate is being able to set the magnetic declination and not needing a protractor. I'm a little mathematically challenged - and am not doing land nav in a combat environment. So, the simpler one is gonna be better for me.
I'd recommend a Suunto MC-2 mirrored baseplate compass then. It allows for shooting accurate azimuths and having the baseplate scales. I'd still recommend getting some of the small "pocket slot" protractors that fit in your field pocket notebook....just make sure to have the ones that match your preferred map scale.
Even how cool the Cammenga looks and feels, a baseplate compass with sighting mirror is superior in terms of easiness to use and the multiuse of the mirror where you can check yourself (face, teeth etc) and use it for signaling with the help of the sun. As you mention, the built in protractor is a great advantge. The built in scale for declination is just perfect. But it’s just my opinion. Just make sure you have a compass that you know how to use.
I have both types. I used the Silva Ranger primarily in my work as a field archaeologists as it has base plate with a 1:24,000 scale on it which most USGS maps are scaled to. So this made it easier to measure distances, and with also to use for making field maps. I like the lensatic for basic navigation and its durability.
I specifically have a Cammenga compass in my kit/belt. Also a Silva baseplate fluid filled type of compass in my pack. So, in essence I have both. My military training has been with the Cammenga and it is held near and dear. I find it ironic that in my profile picture, you will find that same Cammenga compass somewhere on my LBE. Airborne!
True Lensatic Compass does not have declination adjustments. Baseboard compass are far better suited for recreational activities. But I still prefer Lensatic Compass bcoz I'm trained and have used it. Long story short, doesn't what compass you got but it's the usage knowledge that matters. Good Vid 😎👍
Cammenga 3H cost me 105.00 i just ordered one. Now i need a military protractor and 1:25,000 1:50,000 scale map hehe. Ive been watching and learning alot with your series and the more i see the Cammenga in action the more iam convinced its bombproof. It takes time getting used to the declination sayings depending where grid and magnetic north are and if you have east or west declination.. but i guess it comes in time and with alot of practice. Thanks for your series and experiences. It sure has helped even a 52 year old starting out.
Suunto mc2 for me, adjustable declination simplifies navigation so much it's hard to imagine living without it and map work is easier with a clear base plate. The Cammenega is a thing of exquisite beauty though and very functional too.
Totally agree - I love being able to adjust for my declination 1 time. Now...if I could only get a compass manufacturer to hear me on something, I could design the perfect compass, lol
On a cross country Bicycle ride in 2004, weight was a paramount issue. I knew I would need a compass for confirming highway choices and the peace-of-mind the right direction gives. I included my grandfather's WWII Lensatic and ended up using it three times over the 2462 miles trip. I am not a purest on many things, but despite the fact that it has sentimental value, I choose the trusty Military Lensatic every time.
This vid answers my question from another vid. Thanks, I may never have to use a map because the tough military unit will keep me in a straight line. If I do use a map I'll be buying a baseplate tool.🤯👍
@@STOKERMATIC actually bro... I got the backplate because I AM gonna learn maps... With your help. I'm not military, the military unit is a military issue compass... I don't wanna use a protractor.🤣 But I see you keep a straight path with a military compass, so now I can do it too! This map learning will be fun. And... The TruArk 10 don't need a protractor. (I hope) Thanks my brother
I have an like both types. The advantage of the Camenga Lensatic, imo, is it can never develop a bubble. But can only be read to about 2.5˚. That being said, I have some Silva-Sweden compasses for 30+ years that have never developed a bubble. I've not found the same reliability in other base plate compasses. I find you kind of need to think in reverse when switching between using a lensatic to baseplate type compass when thinking about how to adjust for magnetic declination. Because of how the the degree / mils scale rotates with the magnetic north seeking pointer on the compass card on the lensatic, but the magnetic north pointing needle moves separately and independent from the degree scale ring on the base plate compasses. To keep from possibly becoming confused, I always account for it mentally, never using the built in mag declination adjustment even on compasses that have that feature. For magnetic declination I use an acronym of my own creation. Since I thought it up I probably remember it better. -- -- WAvES (West Add v East Subtract. [v represents an "angle"] Or more fully a phrase. "The Map WAvES to the Compass, and the Compass WAvES back to the Map". iow - Map to land WAvES. For 9˚ west declination, add 9˚ to the azimuth measured on the map to be set on the compass. But when taking a compass measured azimuth back to the map use WAvES back(wards) - the west 9˚ magnetic declination becomes subtracted from the compass measured azimuth, rather than added. To be the correct azimuth on the map to be measured with the protractor. Anyway, I've enjoyed many of you nav videos. And I like seeing how different manufacturers think about compass design features. Why let a GPS do your thinking for you? Which some research shows atrophies your mental mapping abilities.
Man, that’s such a great contribution to the conversation! I hope lots of people read it. A really good acronym in waVes as well! Stoked to hear from you and hope to continue the journey. Stoker
@@STOKERMATIC Thanks. I came up with WAvES because I think of electro-magnetic waves. And West Add & East Subtract , seemed a natural fit to the way I think. And I just found it a bit easier to remember than [ LARS, Left Add Right Subtract. Left being West and Right being East.] because I could fit WAvES in the phrase of the map and compass waving to and back to each other. To help remember the correct adjustment going from map to compass or compass to map, dependent on local magnetic declination east or west. However, one only needs to account for magnetic declination when using a compass & map together. If walking about without a map and only keeping track of how far you walked and the direction walked, it doesn't matter. I would add that my favorite base plate compass is the Silva 55-6400/360. An easy to use prismatic sighting compass with a prism inside the compass housing, 0.5˚ accuracy, with a handy base plate length of ~ 5 inches (126mm). Close the to length of the sides a protractor. I read somewhere NATO troops use the mills version. But they have become difficult to find at a reasonable price. I might add two handy thumb rules I try to keep in mind: A] 5km = ~ 3 miles (3.11 miles) Kind of handy to know if you use 5 bead pace counter. And know your pace count for 1 km & for 1 mile or 1/10th of those distances. I am comfortable converting between metric and imperial on paper, but I still think in imperial distances when walking about. Hey, I spent six years in the Navy, not the Army or Marines. B] An azimuth error of 1˚ = ~100 ft error off course at 1 mile. [ actually the error is about 92 feet, but "1˚/100 ft/ 1 mile" I find is easier to remember] People can calculate that for themselves to understand the thumb rule B , by one of at least two methods: 1] Tan = opposite/ adjacent (t=o/a, o = distance off course , a = 1 mile = 5280 ft. ) Rearranging the formula - > tan(1˚) * 5280 ft = 0.017455 * 5280 = 92.16 ft. 2] Think of a circle with radius of 1 mile (5280 ft) . The circumference, C = 2 * r * pi = 10560 ft * pi = 33,175.22 ft. And C/360˚ = 92.15 ft/ 1˚. Thus the thumb rule can be used to make a quick estimate that if you're off course by say 5˚ (due to sum of sighting errors + difficulty accurately walking the azimuth) at 1 mile you will miss the target by about 500 ft. ~ 167 yards, 1.67 football fields. That, I think, illustrates a few things: a compass with ~ 2.5˚ accuracy is ok, but sight as accurately as possible, walk to your destination as accurately as possible, use check points and handrails, as much as possible, keep check point distances short. However, if you are walking about in an area near the agonic line (where magnetic declination = 0) ignoring accounting for magnetic declination isn't a big deal if magnetic declination is less than about 4˚ east or west. The agonic line runs basically from north Michigan to western tip of Florida in contention USA. You will be a little off target, but not to far. Unless you really need extreme accuracy. [ of course if you think in metric, instead of miles and feet, the formulas 1 & 2 can be done with Km or meters. But the 1˚ / 100ft / 1 mile no longer works. But 1˚ error at 1 km works out to 1˚ / 1.75m / 1 km. A 5km walk with 5˚ error = ~ 44meters. Pretty close. < half the length of a football field. Keep doing the fun uploads.
Great overview comment!! Yet another way to remember declination and make the map speak compass language is "WEST" is best and "EAST" is least. So "WEST" declination on the Topo you would ADD degrees to the "TRUE" north to navigate in the field.
In the UK military to account for magnetic deviation we used "Mag to Grid = get rid" and "Grid to Mag = Add". The western part of the UK currently has (practically) zero deviation, so it's simple! At least for a year or two (until it moves East). We were always taught using Silva baseplate compasses.
Does this make sense? I heard something similar. Not sure who. Westerly declination: Grid to Mag (GI to Major) add Mag to Grid (Major to GI) subtract Easterly declination: Grid to Mag (General to Major) subtract Mag to Grid (Major to General) add
My Man! Another great video! I did a quick 'look see' but didn't see any comments on my preferred compass, the Suunto MC-2G. This essentially is a hybrid of the two, base plate and lensatic, and it has the best qualities of them both, well, except for the military grade of the Cammenga. You can set the declination and forget about LARS and remembering going fm map to compass and back again, you can shoot an azimuth like a lensatic, it is actually just as accurate as the lensatic, I tested it because I was concerned about the movement of the compass housing in the plate. You can place the compass on the map to get a bearing, it is a snap. Also, you can use the different scales on the baseplate portion to get a distance as well. Just my thoughts, this is one of the things I have 'geeked out' about fm time to time...
Good stuff Brian! I wouldn’t mind checking out a Suunto like that. Actually, I’d LOVE to be able to design my own - it would be the bomb shizzle! I’d make a hybrid as well, but would use the face and arrow from a Cammenga and put it in a baseplate. They make a “baseplate” compass, but you can’t see through it. So it kind of defeats the purpose.
Well I have both. And I think the suunto is much better for map work put it on the map in the direction you want to travel then line up the meridian lines on the map with the lines on the compass dial. Read bearing. Done. But for out in the field the cammenga shines for reading and shooting an azimuth. Point compass read bearing. done. On the suunto you have to put red in the shed while maintaining your sighing. I love them both. And they compliment each other wonderfully.
@@ronvonbargen8411 I totally agree. I was just goofing yesterday as a matter of fact and came up with a bearing discrepancy of 4 degrees on the Suunto. Carry both, great idea!
in my youth i had a old WWII compass that was rough but still workable. dad would drop me off at the front gate of most of the state parks here in OK. the only instructions given was " i'll see you at a place he'd point to on the map. dead reckoning was he taught me , steak &potato would be waiting for me to finish my trek. now i've got a lensatic made by " stocker&yale " inc. out of beverly , mass., dated aug. 30 '78 . i've had it since the early '80s, the tritium has long since died. i've revisited most of the state parks on my own. i've been catching your's ( and others )video on actually using the features of the lensatic compass.
Thanks Stoker! Love your videos brother. You make it fun to learn about this stuff. And your experience and opinions are super valuable. I can't believe you threw your compass... lol! Awesome. :D
Every filled baseplate compass ive ever had all developed a bubble. Glad the day came i switched to Lensatic (Cammenga) compass. And ive learned to do map work without a protracter.
very much enjoy your vids. In 1962, while in the scouts, we purchased used Korean war era lensatic compasses that we were asked to buy at the local army navy surplus store (when they were REALLY SURPLUS stores.) They looked and acted exactly like Cammenga but they were not; don't remember the manufacturer. Our scout master (former marine) had us break them down to see how they worked, compass out of housing, etc. Then, we sanded, primed and painted each one in day-glow California road crew orange! In those days, lanyards were either cotton or jute, no nylon, polyester, etc. So the jute itched and scratched and the boys tossed them. (I used leather boot laces) Anyway, with day glow, a dropped compass was almost always found. Oddly, I have not seen the bright colors on compasses on the shelves. Sure saved us more than a few times. Keep up the good work!
@@STOKERMATIC Well, your channel rocks, it really does. So, in 1964, when I was 16, my buddy and i were kinda cocky orienteering Popular Mechanics Nerdy dudes who had won a few medium sized orienteering prizes. We studied our topo maps well before (as we always did) adjusted for declination (gotta do the math with a lensatic, compass as you know, better than me),. took our fly rods, packs, day glow lensatics etc, etc, and decided to find what was allegedly a gem of a well hidden (well marked on the map, four miles from any road) trout lake in the Sierras a ways away from Fallen Leaf Lake in the Tahoe basin. About 2 miles and some bush whacking into the hike we ran across 2 very dehydrated, disoriented, utterly exhausted bow hunters! Yes, they had followed a wounded buck (classic) and got turned around and around. Easily, we located the year around creek found on the map less than 100 yards (60 steps for me) from where they were wilting away!! We walked them back the way we had come (basic move) and they hitched a ride to Camp Richardson, just a few miles away. IMHO compass and map reading along with an outdoor class should be REQUIRED (card carrying) for anyone using, for recreation, public lands, parks, etc..city, county, state (province) and federal. Besides the heartbreak of loss, tax payer $$$ is spent needlessly if just a small amount of understanding is required. A hunting license is required, why not a "recreational" license to save us all grief? Sorry for the rant..Good work on this channel, sir.
Great video! Kinda wish you would have talked a little more about the specific features of both, like determining azimuth for a specific object you're looking at and such
I use the Brunton Lensatic Compass "Military-Style Compass". Yes, it doesn't have either the phosphorus nor tritium, but it's tough and gets the job done. I had to buy it many years ago when I didn't have $80 to spend. Nonetheless, it serves the same purpose as many others. Plus, it's made in the U.S.A.
I've tried at least three "cammenga-style" lensatics over the last years, in the range of 8-to-15$, they are all trash compared to the original, I would'nt trust them in the outdoor. However, since last year I am using the "Geonaute C400" from Decathlon. For circa 20$, I found it to be impressive. It's solid, well built and actually very precise. I have never had the opportunity to use an LC-2 but if you will have the opportunity to make a comparison between the two it would be really interesting. Greetings from Italy, R Ps: I owe to you a lot in terms of personal evolution and landnav skills, I follow all of your videos and you are really an inspirational figure! Keep up the good work ;)
Very interesting! Lost of compasses out there. I’ll pick up a cheapo one to do a review because I agree - most are garbage. Appreciate your generous words too brother! Been a while since I’ve been in Italy. 🍷
@@stevemulholland1532 I agree with your statement, even if I have never had' particolar problems during on-field use. Moreover, I would say I quite reconfirm what already said: it's cheap and slow, but reliable. In these months I've stressed the compass in every condition (hot/cold, rainy/sunny, day or night etc.) and altitude (Sea level up to 2500m) and I've always reached safely my destination. You can trust your new compass, you'll have fun with it. R Ps: Double check is Always recommended: magnetic anomalies or reading errors are not immediatly recognizable due to the needle moving smooth and slow.
Great content. A protractor is not necessary to calculate grid azimuth on a Commenga compass. If you line up the white bezel line with the grid lines then calculate the numbers of clicks to meet the declination you are ready to rotate your body to put "red in the shed" and march on a magnetic course. Re: declination Rotate the bezel in the direction of the GM angle. Click left for westerly (negative), click right for Easterly (positive). 3 degrees per click. I am 16 West. 5 clicks to the left. I will be off 1 degree. No big deal for most of us. Heading back I aim off more than a degree. Usually 5. An orienteering compass is great to use due to the built in protractor and declination adjustment. They just do not last long. Having an "army" compass as back up is smart. I have a maptools protractor and also a super pliable half protractor in my nav kit. Thanks for the great content.
Great channel. I use a K&R Merridian pro and the Cammenga (for dark movement). The Cammenga is good but the K&R is more accurate. Both are excellent. There will never be a bubble in the K&R because of the thermoplastic they use for the capsule. So niether will bubble up. This is just my opinion but not having a sight on the compass is like a rifle without sights; especially for non-trail "bushwacking".
Love the navigation tutorials, far better than any instruction I’ve received on active duty! Any videos coming soon on rucking tips? (Pack recommendation, setup, etc?)
I bought a Commenga compass. Very nice! I have a cheap baseplate compass, but it seems the commenga with its metallic housing, not effected as much from outside metallic objects like the plastic baseplate compass. Commenga far as I know, don't use fluid to stabilize the pointer in side as most compasses have. Still, very solid in its movement. The Commenga, big thumbs up from me!
It's all heavily forested at my latitude, no need for the for the sight wire of a lensmatic since it's always trees in you sight line, and of course, there is no straight path. I also rely heavily on quad maps, so a baseplate it is for me. As for durability, my Boy Scout orienteering "baseplate" compass was given to me in 1969, since then, it has gone thousands of hours and at least a thousand hiking, snowshoeing, and hunting miles through the deep woods with me with never a problem (although it will start to slush up at about minus 30F below if not kept close to your body).
This video really helped me out! I need a compass that has a fast bearing acquisition and nighttime capable without a flashlight to "charge" it. The only downsides to the Cammenga seem to be that is has less bells a whistles, like a mirror, magnifying glass, a clinometer, and not being able to adjust declination. However, It seems to shine with fast acquisition, compact, rugged design, and the tritium illumination. Having to buy a protractor with it, for map reading, is just par for the course and might actually be better in practice.
I like you have both a Cammenga lensatic and a baseplate compass. The Cammenga I have two because I believe that two is one and one is none. Btw, just found and subscribed to your channel.
Bravo........how many compasses........three.......for safety.........if they point in different direction ......u have a safety check with back up....cheers
I tend to go military as well, there a reason they have been used for years, also have the sunto mc2 also but pretty mych use the cammenga 3h thank for video
I always thought that the bubble in the base plate compass helped to quickly get the compass level. My preference is the lensatic. Thank you for a great video.
Lensatic compass. I have a base plate. Its only a ride along because 1 is none. And as far as which is better. I truly don't know. But I am more used to my lensatic. As far as using them in different hemispheres I have never had any issues except for the heading being reversed. ( i am joking). Keep up the good work and make more vids bro.
Thanks for your kind words! At the end, both point north, so I’m not sure ones better, but what are we used to using - I’m a lensatic guy too, though I love some of the features of a baseplate. I too carry both!
@@STOKERMATICI have watched your videos about land nav, as well as the grid cordenances video. I think that you should do a video on topography maps reading and plotting. Since terrain / mission can dictate that a person may not continue in a straight line. I saw a hikes gone wrong were a guy and I assume (b/c it was not stated) his gf. They lack anything close to situational awareness and end up in a group of trees all of which had at or above shoulder lvl scratches. I mean deep scratches. Every tree for 40 ft in east west trail they took ( guessing to ford easier but they did not exactly explain why.) My only idea is they did not know how to find a BETTER place to cross at from not reading the contures or the obvious signs even I could see on my smartphone screen. So it came as no surprise at all when they meet a 5 ft tall black bear. If they had read the map topo correctly the first time then they would have known that the ground went up on 3 sides and the only quick exit (well quicker) following the steam down and guess where Mr bear came from? So a long Story shortened. I believe a lot of ppl would benefit from a 2 part video on how to read the topo and plan accodingly. Combined with a reading your A.O. /O.E. for general situational awareness. Those would be awesome vids. Btw really liked the home made fire starters how to vid. Keep the great vids stocked brother. Have a good rest of your day.
Wow! Thanks for such a great contribution to the conversation! If you check out my playlists, you I’ll find some I did in 2019 - I do plan on some more this year as well because I agree that that if we know our area, and know how to read a map it can save a ton of time - energy, and increase security.
@@STOKERMATIC Thank you for the reply. I did just find your reading topo maps video. I guess I should have looked through the playlists more thoroughly prior to recommending you make a video. Sorry about that, I do think you could Do land nav vid for new butter bars, because land nav does not mean call the platoon Sergeant when the Lt gets lost. 😎
Hey, no worries! I actually want to continue to refine some of the ones I’ve already done and expand in some new areas. I’ve been toying with developing a LandNav Master Class - a series of 10-15 vids, include map, protractor, compass and pace beads... Still in development mode, but I think it may have a market.
I like to have both, one is for taking more accurate longer range bearings (lenstatic), but for short range bearings when traveling, especially in thick stuff, or when being within 3-5deg is sufficient I'm more than happy with a base plate. My Silva baseplate I inherited from my father is 45-50years old (he brought it for tramping about the time I was born)
Now I've read a bit about compases over the last few weeks, just received my Camenga Tritium just the other day, Brunton is an excellent compass and some Brunton fetch nearly a $1,000 bones but I feel the Brunton is set towards the Surveying profession, as for the Camenga is designed for more of a brutal environment, Battle, Hiking, Climbing environment's etc...Only my opinion though. Thanks for the Compass throwdown Stoker, Good show.🇺🇸👍✌️
@@ericdee6802 what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
@@incorectulpolitic I'd stick with the Camenga. finding the "Utmost" accurate you probably couldn't carry it, that would be a Maritime compass, which will run $THOUSANDS.... As for durability and price, if its tough enough to guide our troops to safety in battle, Camenga is the one.
Used a Lensatic when in the army, nowt wrong with it. But I've been using my same Silva Expedition 4 regularly for FIFTY years -still no bubble; don't bother taking into account grid magnetic angle in the UK because the declination is minimal (
AND if Ii am not mistaken, in your video AND ON EVERY LIQUID FILLED COMPASS I OWN (5) there is a bubble in the liquid filled but never ever have I had a bubble in my Cammenga. It is actually not possible due to its engineering. 🙂 Stoker, you have to admit once you get use to the Cammenga its easy to use.
Great Comparison of the 2. I was thinking the magnetic compass would be more accurate. I have a cheap made in Taiwan "Open Trails" brand Compass/thermometer/whistle. Today I took it outback to test it & everything read pretty close Except North. It acted like it didn't know which way to point North & it wasn't pointing in the exact opposite direction it had of south. After your review I believe the Brunton TruArc10 would better suite my mapping needs. Thanks Again!
Thanks ! What about a surveyors transit / Arty compass ? I used one calibrated in Mils long ago to augment My nav pak and USGI Comenga . Found it very useful .
Lensatic, hands down. How about a video on how to get accurate map directionals using the straight edge, like yours, and how to use a compass without a straight edge, like my cheaper plastic version.( Campco).
I bought a Cammenga compass, back when I could see. Now I can't see the wire when I hold it up to my eye. How do old guys deal with this? I'm guessing with a baseplate compass.
Great vid and love the channel. Have you made any vids showing how to set multiple azimuth points (destinations), and then doing the reverse to find one's way back to starting position?
That’s actually a great question! I may have to find one to do a short video of it usage. That line is called a “Lubber Line” and is used when sailing to account for the wind.
I think it's historical. It gave 8 instead of 4 cardinal directions to set the bezel on older models, by lack of cardinal directions on modern models it also allows to do "boxing" at 90° AND 45°
Just a small point on terminology. The north on a map is grid north ie north along the vertical grid lines. Therefore when switching between compass and map you are applying a grid north variation - not a true north variation
Azimuth and bearing are not interchangeable words. Azimuth denotes the angle of a line made with the north end of the meridian (meridian is a straight line running from polar north to south), from 0 degree to 360 degree, clockwise. Bearing is the angle of made by a line and either north end of the meridian or south end of meridian and the angle cannot be greater than 90, either clockwise or counter clockwise. For example, bearing of North 60 degree East is the same with azimuth 60 degree; however, bearing of South 60 degree East is equal to azimuth 120 degree.
Appreciate you adding in to the conversation! I think when I use the words, I may say something like “check your bearing” or “check your azimuth” in which case they may be interchangeable. Like many similar words they also have differences as noted.
The IRONY is that i keep the 3H on my person most of the time; however, keep the baseplate one in my bag for whenever I'm about "on foot " with a map [in the car]....so I basically have both with me in a way.. most if the time
For most of my applications the baseplate is the better choice. I have a Recta with gobal needle and adjustment for decination a couple of Silva Field and a Silva Ranger with mirror. I might get a Cammenga just because it´s cool. The surplus shop in my neck of the woods only carry cheap knock offs that appear to be really flimsy and tend have a sticky needle. The direction they indicate as north depends on the starting position. The watch method is more accurate than that.
there actually is methods to adjust for magnetic-grid deviation on lensatic compasses by using the ring, its less straight forward than with baseplate models, but still possible.
I would like to go with the Cammenga but you lose the mirror compared to the Suunto MC 2. I try to go with multi use items. The tritium in the cammenga is awaome.
I have found a base plate to be more useful. Lensmatic was what I grew up with but the base plate style seems easier to work with a map. Using it with a trekking pole gives me a steady base and I haven’t found loss of accuracy compared to the Lens.
Damn. That was great information. Thanks. I’d like a compass for aligning an equatorial mount during the day. It must lie flat on a platform and true north vs magnetic north is important. But the difference between the two depends on latitude, longitude and elevation, so it varies from place to place. I don’t see how the flat compass can show you true north without that info. Basically I’m still confused as to what to get. Paul
Magnetic compass will only point to magnetic pole. A baseplate can be preset - so you could also use it for grid/true. Magnetic declination is far more complex than lat/long/elevation - but it does differ from place to place for sure. And over time. A good Silva, Suunto, or Brunton compass would do you well. I’ve got plenty of videos about the different compasses and declination of your interested.
Thanks. I’m looking at the Suunto MC-2. I should know this stuff being an Eagle Scout. It’s interesting to learn. I loved your enthusiasm and video. Thanks. Paul
I have a lensatic compass that I got while I was in Vietnam. This thing is still like brand new except the tritium is dead. I don’t use it at night so it’s not an issue. I have to say that I can’t see the dial when I’m trying to shoot an azimuth. On a sunny day it reflects light so I can’t read the bearing. I want to like it but I prefer my Sunto MC2. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Thanks for watching friends! Make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to stay up to date on future content. You can find gear on my Amazon Influencer Page Check out this page from www.amazon.com/shop/stokermatic
what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
For someone who has been extensively trained on the proper use of a USGI Lensatic, calculating magnetic declination with every bearing and willing to carry a clinometer and protractor with them, then I might agree with you. However, for the person who has not, then their actual "survival" might hinge on having a base plate with a mirrored lid for more accurate sighting(and signaling for help), adjustable declination so they can get to where they are aiming on the map, etc etc. Personally, you have the right idea, by owning both and being trained, but too many people buy something like a Cammenga for the cool factor and "trusted by military", so hopefully they never get in trouble and don't really need it to stay alive.
@@greenman5255 hi, what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately the direction of magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there any quality accurate ones that will stay accurate for a life time or at least a few decades?
I found out about the store after I purchased a grid tool from Amazon. But I still need to get the 🧭 from your store. Seems like your price on the map tools are much better than others. Thanks!
As a member of an Oregon SAR unit, it is absolutely amazing the number of “outdoorsman” we run into that state they “never use a compass.....know this area like the back of my hand.”
We usually meet them twice.
I bet you all have some interesting stories!
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
@@incorectulpolitic Most suunto compasses are global but not liquid free.
@@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32 I read a lot of reviews that they develop bubbles after days, weeks, months, or even come with a bubble... this is why I am asking around for a quality compass...
@@incorectulpolitic if a compass is pointing to Magnetic North it's pointing to the magnetic poll, all compasses should do this right out of the box.
Great video brother! I had 20 years in Special Forces. If my pockets were not deep or I was not navigating all the time, I would buy a cheap base plate compass. I can navigate just as well with it. I also can drop and toss a baseplate and may get a scratch on it. However, I LOVE the mil spec lensetic because of the tritium (radiactive) glow in the dark. However, all too often, less experienced people make the gear selection above the skill set. Better a guy who can navigate than one with the best compass. When you learn to navigate well, the choice of compass will be minutia. Of course, the topic was which is better. Thanks for your great content!
I carry both, I'll use the base plate compass for map work then use the lenstatic for actual navigation. That uses the strongest features of each and almost removes the negatives.
It also gives some redundancy so long as you don't keep both in the same pocket or pack.
Nice! I've used the Cammenga Lensatic for years turkey hunting in Oregon. Find a nice spot in a far clearing, write down the bearing, do a pace count and hang out in the brush, and go as far as you want, etc. Ive seen some TH-camrs talk down this compass for various reasons while I've been in hail, sleet, snow, altitude, desert, dust storms, open water and heavy bush and it has been spot on every time! Some folks say its hard to use on a map because of declination issues. Nope. Orient your map then turn map with compass on top, (easterly, western US or westerly, eastern US) to the required declination number. Your map is good to go as long as you don't move it. you've changed it from Magnetic north to True north. Remember, declination numbers change so you need to get current numbers for your area. Like your vids!
You got this!
" ...north-seeking end of the needle". Thanks for using the correct terminology! Many nav students assume that this end of the needle is the north pole of a magnet.
I do what I can Ed! Hope all is well with ya!
@@STOKERMATIC Doing well here, my friend. Stay safe and keep on trekking.
@@Ed-hz2um if that was the north end of a magnet it would repel magnetic north… lollll
@@Ed-hz2um "The north pole of a magnet is the pole that - as long as the magnet can spin freely - points towards the north"
Just reaching out to let you know that your compass and nav videos are some of the best on TH-cam. Recently been teaching a few friends who grew up on GPS how to work with a compass and I’ve been pointing them to your stuff to fill in the gaps. My take is that I carry both but prefer the lensatic for navigating and working on the move but the baseplate is great for planning at home or camp. Here in the highlands of Appalachia you don’t get a lot of long, straight, shots so the lensatic is great for traveling using a ton of waypoints with minimal deviation, or boxing around the occasional sheer mountain side. I’d be stoked if Cammenga made a version with a 1:24k scale to work just a little better with the USGS topo maps, but that’s a pipe dream since the volume would never match government sales.
Wow - I appreciate that! I think that would be awesome if they did too. I need to contact them again on some stuff, will see if I get any feedback or not.
As always, straight and to the point! No gibberish like I've seen with other compass vids! 💪
Apart from the unnecessary intro video
great video and your presentation is outstanding. I had my dad's prismatic compass from WWII that he used in the Pacific. it came in a leather case; with markings all around the sides of the brass base; don't know much about who made it and I gave it to my son who had 22 years in the army. He has my dad's map case & his maps of the different islands and Tokyo. His maps have penciled notes for his artillery batteries. Thank you and take care. The Woodlands, Texas
What an awesome and amazing story! Truly incredible. Thank you for sharing!
Sounds like the British made Francis Barker MK111 see a nice restoration here jpmoeller.com/2017/07/22/francis-barker-mkiii-prismatic-compass/ you may wish to tell your son to be careful as they are quite radioactive due to the old radium paints used for night illumination. They still make them and are still used by the British today - I have one they are called Francis Barker MK73 now - pretty much the same except they use safer tritium for the illumination. Probably the best handheld compass available anywhere.
Just last Spring I replaced the Cammenga lensatic compass that I’ve had since 1978 (with a new Cammenga).
I have a compass in every bag, but my Cammenga is the one I use on every trip into the bush.
Of course, Cammenga makes a fine baseplate compass too.
Right on! It's a great instrument to have! I wish Cammenga's baseplate compass had more standard baseplate features.
Great video. I prefer the lensatic because it's pretty much a point and shoot kinda deal. If you hunt from a tree stand and you shoot a deer that disappears into a treeline it's easy just to shoot an azimuth,then climb down and know just where to start looking.Especially in Florida where it's usually pretty short visibility when you're on the ground.
Right on James!
That's perfectly true. I used to use it for the same reason as a boy digging ginseng. But, if you use it with a map, it's very easy to make a mistake over several miles if you don't adjust for declination properly. In your case a short distance isn't an issue.
I have used a lensatic since 1982 and I love it.
I love it too!
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
True story, my dad never used a compass, he always said "wherever you go there you are"....
It isn’t wrong! Lol
Woah... thats deep man
I have a feeling he may have also said "I think I have been here before?"
@DesertRat45 dead reckoning requires a compass, maybe you mean another technique?
As I was sitting on my motorcycle looking at a map, a car stopped & asked if I was lost.
I replied "Sure am, but if I wasn't lost I wouldn't be having any fun!"
Iam subbing just for how good you are at talking, and the culture in the video really shows to a Canadian like me. Wanted to get a personal compass for my future career in the Infantry
Glad you enjoyed it friend - best to you in the infantry!
Good video. With modern Topo maps I’ve seen they have an enlarged declination scale at the bottom. You can lay the Lensatic along the declination angle and orient the map by turning the map and the compass until North is lined up on the compass. Then you can just take your bearing as you’ve adjusted for declination.
I've always owned a Lensatic compass but only knew how to find north. Ha After watching several of your videos, heck I'm full of compass knowledge. I'm also the proud owner of an H3. Wow. I am enjoying your videos.
That stoked me up!
After 10 years most H3 is gone. Just like my father's radium compass is completely burned out (but the radium is still there).
Sorry my last comment turned to gibberish. For me, and I have never been in the military. But I grew up using a Silva Baseplate compass and used it in the BSA. However, On the CDT hiking for many months I only took and will take again when I return here in a few months my Camenga Lensatic compass. It is reliable, true and trustworthly and most importantly will hold up to the daily abuse. Thank you for the fine training videos.
No worries Dave! Thanks for sharing that!
Good video. I own both and use them both. Lensatic for my precise movement and spotting. My baseplate is always out for quick glances to keep me in the shed
Right on amigo!
Who in the hell could give any of this guy's videos a 'thumbs down'?? I don't get it. Anyway...I have both types. The baseplate is ideal for the map working, but the Cammenga is gonna' be more accurate in the field. Way, way tougher too. These Cammenga's are built like tanks. I basically treat mine as baseplate compass for the map and the lensatic compass for the field work. Works well for me.
Great thoughts on both types my man. And thank you very much for your kind words!
I began using a Silva Ranger in 1975 when I started cruising timber, and it’s the one I know and trust. I think that’s the way we are with a compass. The one we know becomes the one we trust.
Indeed Tom! Great music by the way!!
As already said below, the transparent baseplate makes it *much* easier to orientate a map when planning, but the Cammenga is great for taking a bearing when navigating. I suppose if you want the best of both worlds in a single compass the Suunto mirror is a good option.
Binge watching. Great refresher and learning things I didn't know. Thanks Bill. I love my Cammenga. I carry one of each type, my Cammenga 27 and a mirrored baseplate compass.
I have 2 compasses I never knew how to work them until I saw your video thanks very much
Right on!
Great video. It definitely helped me make up my mind for the baseplate compass. As awesome as the Cammanga is, what sold me on the baseplate is being able to set the magnetic declination and not needing a protractor. I'm a little mathematically challenged - and am not doing land nav in a combat environment. So, the simpler one is gonna be better for me.
That’s a great function of it!
I'd recommend a Suunto MC-2 mirrored baseplate compass then. It allows for shooting accurate azimuths and having the baseplate scales. I'd still recommend getting some of the small "pocket slot" protractors that fit in your field pocket notebook....just make sure to have the ones that match your preferred map scale.
@@toddgibson9861, that's what I got. It's great.
Great review. You covered all of the points. I thank you you did change my mind have used a lensatic compass for all these years.
Appreciate that Martin!
Even how cool the Cammenga looks and feels, a baseplate compass with sighting mirror is superior in terms of easiness to use and the multiuse of the mirror where you can check yourself (face, teeth etc) and use it for signaling with the help of the sun. As you mention, the built in protractor is a great advantge.
The built in scale for declination is just perfect. But it’s just my opinion. Just make sure you have a compass that you know how to use.
I have both types. I used the Silva Ranger primarily in my work as a field archaeologists as it has base plate with a 1:24,000 scale on it which most USGS maps are scaled to. So this made it easier to measure distances, and with also to use for making field maps. I like the lensatic for basic navigation and its durability.
The one you know how to use and the one you have is better than none...
@@davidlee9299 Agree
I specifically have a Cammenga compass in my kit/belt. Also a Silva baseplate fluid filled type of compass in my pack. So, in essence I have both.
My military training has been with the Cammenga and it is held near and dear. I find it ironic that in my profile picture, you will find that same Cammenga compass somewhere on my LBE.
Airborne!
True Lensatic Compass does not have declination adjustments. Baseboard compass are far better suited for recreational activities. But I still prefer Lensatic Compass bcoz I'm trained and have used it. Long story short, doesn't what compass you got but it's the usage knowledge that matters. Good Vid 😎👍
Right on!!
Cammenga 3H cost me 105.00 i just ordered one. Now i need a military protractor and 1:25,000 1:50,000 scale map hehe.
Ive been watching and learning alot with your series and the more i see the Cammenga in action the more iam convinced its bombproof. It takes time getting used to the declination sayings depending where grid and magnetic north are and if you have east or west declination.. but i guess it comes in time and with alot of practice. Thanks for your series and experiences. It sure has helped even a 52 year old starting out.
You got this! Glad the content resonates with ya!
Suunto mc2 for me, adjustable declination simplifies navigation so much it's hard to imagine living without it and map work is easier with a clear base plate.
The Cammenega is a thing of exquisite beauty though and very functional too.
Totally agree - I love being able to adjust for my declination 1 time. Now...if I could only get a compass manufacturer to hear me on something, I could design the perfect compass, lol
On a cross country Bicycle ride in 2004, weight was a paramount issue. I knew I would need a compass for confirming highway choices and the peace-of-mind the right direction gives. I included my grandfather's WWII Lensatic and ended up using it three times over the 2462 miles trip. I am not a purest on many things, but despite the fact that it has sentimental value, I choose the trusty Military Lensatic every time.
This vid answers my question from another vid. Thanks, I may never have to use a map because the tough military unit will keep me in a straight line. If I do use a map I'll be buying a baseplate tool.🤯👍
If your in the military, I hope you DO have to use a map. Master your analog methods
@@STOKERMATIC actually bro... I got the backplate because I AM gonna learn maps...
With your help. I'm not military, the military unit is a military issue compass... I don't wanna use a protractor.🤣 But I see you keep a straight path with a military compass, so now I can do it too! This map learning will be fun. And... The TruArk 10 don't need a protractor. (I hope)
Thanks my brother
I have an like both types. The advantage of the Camenga Lensatic, imo, is it can never develop a bubble. But can only be read to about 2.5˚. That being said, I have some Silva-Sweden compasses for 30+ years that have never developed a bubble. I've not found the same reliability in other base plate compasses.
I find you kind of need to think in reverse when switching between using a lensatic to baseplate type compass when thinking about how to adjust for magnetic declination. Because of how the the degree / mils scale rotates with the magnetic north seeking pointer on the compass card on the lensatic, but the magnetic north pointing needle moves separately and independent from the degree scale ring on the base plate compasses. To keep from possibly becoming confused, I always account for it mentally, never using the built in mag declination adjustment even on compasses that have that feature.
For magnetic declination I use an acronym of my own creation. Since I thought it up I probably remember it better. -- -- WAvES (West Add v East Subtract. [v represents an "angle"] Or more fully a phrase. "The Map WAvES to the Compass, and the Compass WAvES back to the Map". iow - Map to land WAvES. For 9˚ west declination, add 9˚ to the azimuth measured on the map to be set on the compass. But when taking a compass measured azimuth back to the map use WAvES back(wards) - the west 9˚ magnetic declination becomes subtracted from the compass measured azimuth, rather than added. To be the correct azimuth on the map to be measured with the protractor.
Anyway, I've enjoyed many of you nav videos. And I like seeing how different manufacturers think about compass design features. Why let a GPS do your thinking for you? Which some research shows atrophies your mental mapping abilities.
Man, that’s such a great contribution to the conversation! I hope lots of people read it. A really good acronym in waVes as well! Stoked to hear from you and hope to continue the journey.
Stoker
@@STOKERMATIC Thanks. I came up with WAvES because I think of electro-magnetic waves. And West Add & East Subtract , seemed a natural fit to the way I think. And I just found it a bit easier to remember than [ LARS, Left Add Right Subtract. Left being West and Right being East.] because I could fit WAvES in the phrase of the map and compass waving to and back to each other. To help remember the correct adjustment going from map to compass or compass to map, dependent on local magnetic declination east or west.
However, one only needs to account for magnetic declination when using a compass & map together. If walking about without a map and only keeping track of how far you walked and the direction walked, it doesn't matter.
I would add that my favorite base plate compass is the Silva 55-6400/360. An easy to use prismatic sighting compass with a prism inside the compass housing, 0.5˚ accuracy, with a handy base plate length of ~ 5 inches (126mm). Close the to length of the sides a protractor. I read somewhere NATO troops use the mills version. But they have become difficult to find at a reasonable price.
I might add two handy thumb rules I try to keep in mind:
A] 5km = ~ 3 miles (3.11 miles) Kind of handy to know if you use 5 bead pace counter. And know your pace count for 1 km & for 1 mile or 1/10th of those distances. I am comfortable converting between metric and imperial on paper, but I still think in imperial distances when walking about. Hey, I spent six years in the Navy, not the Army or Marines.
B] An azimuth error of 1˚ = ~100 ft error off course at 1 mile. [ actually the error is about 92 feet, but "1˚/100 ft/ 1 mile" I find is easier to remember]
People can calculate that for themselves to understand the thumb rule B , by one of at least two methods:
1] Tan = opposite/ adjacent (t=o/a, o = distance off course , a = 1 mile = 5280 ft. ) Rearranging the formula - > tan(1˚) * 5280 ft = 0.017455 * 5280 = 92.16 ft.
2] Think of a circle with radius of 1 mile (5280 ft) . The circumference, C = 2 * r * pi = 10560 ft * pi = 33,175.22 ft. And C/360˚ = 92.15 ft/ 1˚.
Thus the thumb rule can be used to make a quick estimate that if you're off course by say 5˚ (due to sum of sighting errors + difficulty accurately walking the azimuth) at 1 mile you will miss the target by about 500 ft. ~ 167 yards, 1.67 football fields. That, I think, illustrates a few things:
a compass with ~ 2.5˚ accuracy is ok, but sight as accurately as possible, walk to your destination as accurately as possible, use check points and handrails, as much as possible, keep check point distances short.
However, if you are walking about in an area near the agonic line (where magnetic declination = 0) ignoring accounting for magnetic declination isn't a big deal if magnetic declination is less than about 4˚ east or west. The agonic line runs basically from north Michigan to western tip of Florida in contention USA. You will be a little off target, but not to far. Unless you really need extreme accuracy.
[ of course if you think in metric, instead of miles and feet, the formulas 1 & 2 can be done with Km or meters. But the 1˚ / 100ft / 1 mile no longer works. But 1˚ error at 1 km works out to 1˚ / 1.75m / 1 km. A 5km walk with 5˚ error = ~ 44meters. Pretty close. < half the length of a football field.
Keep doing the fun uploads.
Great overview comment!! Yet another way to remember declination and make the map speak compass language is "WEST" is best and "EAST" is least. So "WEST" declination on the Topo you would ADD degrees to the "TRUE" north to navigate in the field.
In the UK military to account for magnetic deviation we used "Mag to Grid = get rid" and "Grid to Mag = Add". The western part of the UK currently has (practically) zero deviation, so it's simple! At least for a year or two (until it moves East). We were always taught using Silva baseplate compasses.
Does this make sense? I heard something similar. Not sure who.
Westerly declination:
Grid to Mag (GI to Major) add
Mag to Grid (Major to GI) subtract
Easterly declination:
Grid to Mag (General to Major) subtract
Mag to Grid (Major to General) add
My Man! Another great video! I did a quick 'look see' but didn't see any comments on my preferred compass, the Suunto MC-2G. This essentially is a hybrid of the two, base plate and lensatic, and it has the best qualities of them both, well, except for the military grade of the Cammenga. You can set the declination and forget about LARS and remembering going fm map to compass and back again, you can shoot an azimuth like a lensatic, it is actually just as accurate as the lensatic, I tested it because I was concerned about the movement of the compass housing in the plate. You can place the compass on the map to get a bearing, it is a snap. Also, you can use the different scales on the baseplate portion to get a distance as well. Just my thoughts, this is one of the things I have 'geeked out' about fm time to time...
Good stuff Brian! I wouldn’t mind checking out a Suunto like that. Actually, I’d LOVE to be able to design my own - it would be the bomb shizzle! I’d make a hybrid as well, but would use the face and arrow from a Cammenga and put it in a baseplate.
They make a “baseplate” compass, but you can’t see through it. So it kind of defeats the purpose.
My favorite is the Suunto M3 Global System. Accurate in both the Northern and Southern hemisphere.
@@George-vf7ss which is the M3? I have the MC-2 global.
Well I have both. And I think the suunto is much better for map work put it on the map in the direction you want to travel then line up the meridian lines on the map with the lines on the compass dial. Read bearing. Done. But for out in the field the cammenga shines for reading and shooting an azimuth. Point compass read bearing. done. On the suunto you have to put red in the shed while maintaining your sighing. I love them both. And they compliment each other wonderfully.
@@ronvonbargen8411 I totally agree. I was just goofing yesterday as a matter of fact and came up with a bearing discrepancy of 4 degrees on the Suunto. Carry both, great idea!
in my youth i had a old WWII compass that was rough but still workable. dad would drop me off at the front gate of most of the state parks here in OK. the only instructions given was " i'll see you at a place he'd point to on the map. dead reckoning was he taught me , steak &potato would be waiting for me to finish my trek.
now i've got a lensatic made by " stocker&yale " inc. out of beverly , mass., dated aug. 30 '78 .
i've had it since the early '80s, the tritium has long since died. i've revisited most of the state parks on my own. i've been catching your's ( and others )video on actually using the features of the lensatic compass.
Awesome story! Thanks for sharing!!
I'm not sure the Brand of mine, but it is a lensatic compass and I got it from my brother when he got back his tour in Iraq.
Awesome!
Thanks Stoker! Love your videos brother. You make it fun to learn about this stuff. And your experience and opinions are super valuable. I can't believe you threw your compass... lol! Awesome. :D
I appreciate that! And, hey, it's pretty tough! LOL
What a beautiful tree!
Great info here lad! Huge thanks man.
Great video. I'm only familiar with the common military lensatic compass. The other one merits a look. Thank you.
Every filled baseplate compass ive ever had all developed a bubble. Glad the day came i switched to Lensatic (Cammenga) compass. And ive learned to do map work without a protracter.
I have a decent baseplate - but I LOVE my lensatic!
Your channel really needs a lot more subs considering the value of the content. Happy to provide my thumbs up and subscription!
Much appreciated!
very much enjoy your vids. In 1962, while in the scouts, we purchased used Korean war era lensatic compasses that we were asked to buy at the local army navy surplus store (when they were REALLY SURPLUS stores.) They looked and acted exactly like Cammenga but they were not; don't remember the manufacturer. Our scout master (former marine) had us break them down to see how they worked, compass out of housing, etc. Then, we sanded, primed and painted each one in day-glow California road crew orange! In those days, lanyards were either cotton or jute, no nylon, polyester, etc. So the jute itched and scratched and the boys tossed them. (I used leather boot laces) Anyway, with day glow, a dropped compass was almost always found. Oddly, I have not seen the bright colors on compasses on the shelves. Sure saved us more than a few times. Keep up the good work!
Man I appreciate that story!! Thanks friend!
@@STOKERMATIC Well, your channel rocks, it really does. So, in 1964, when I was 16, my buddy and i were kinda cocky orienteering Popular Mechanics Nerdy dudes who had won a few medium sized orienteering prizes. We studied our topo maps well before (as we always did) adjusted for declination (gotta do the math with a lensatic, compass as you know, better than me),. took our fly rods, packs, day glow lensatics etc, etc, and decided to find what was allegedly a gem of a well hidden (well marked on the map, four miles from any road) trout lake in the Sierras a ways away from Fallen Leaf Lake in the Tahoe basin. About 2 miles and some bush whacking into the hike we ran across 2 very dehydrated, disoriented, utterly exhausted bow hunters! Yes, they had followed a wounded buck (classic) and got turned around and around. Easily, we located the year around creek found on the map less than 100 yards (60 steps for me) from where they were wilting away!! We walked them back the way we had come (basic move) and they hitched a ride to Camp Richardson, just a few miles away. IMHO compass and map reading along with an outdoor class should be REQUIRED (card carrying) for anyone using, for recreation, public lands, parks, etc..city, county, state (province) and federal. Besides the heartbreak of loss, tax payer $$$ is spent needlessly if just a small amount of understanding is required. A hunting license is required, why not a "recreational" license to save us all grief? Sorry for the rant..Good work on this channel, sir.
Great video! Kinda wish you would have talked a little more about the specific features of both, like determining azimuth for a specific object you're looking at and such
I use the Brunton Lensatic Compass "Military-Style Compass". Yes, it doesn't have either the phosphorus nor tritium, but it's tough and gets the job done. I had to buy it many years ago when I didn't have $80 to spend. Nonetheless, it serves the same purpose as many others. Plus, it's made in the U.S.A.
I've tried at least three "cammenga-style" lensatics over the last years, in the range of 8-to-15$, they are all trash compared to the original, I would'nt trust them in the outdoor.
However, since last year I am using the "Geonaute C400" from Decathlon. For circa 20$, I found it to be impressive. It's solid, well built and actually very precise. I have never had the opportunity to use an LC-2 but if you will have the opportunity to make a comparison between the two it would be really interesting.
Greetings from Italy,
R
Ps: I owe to you a lot in terms of personal evolution and landnav skills, I follow all of your videos and you are really an inspirational figure! Keep up the good work ;)
Very interesting! Lost of compasses out there. I’ll pick up a cheapo one to do a review because I agree - most are garbage.
Appreciate your generous words too brother! Been a while since I’ve been in Italy. 🍷
@@STOKERMATIC I hope one day I ll have the opportunity to come and visit the US' beauties!!! Thank you for your kind reply, have a nice day! R
I just bought this compass from Decathalon. I am abroad and look forward to using it. I wanted a bigger bezel for winter use and larger numbers.
@@stevemulholland1532 I agree with your statement, even if I have never had' particolar problems during on-field use. Moreover, I would say I quite reconfirm what already said: it's cheap and slow, but reliable. In these months I've stressed the compass in every condition (hot/cold, rainy/sunny, day or night etc.) and altitude (Sea level up to 2500m) and I've always reached safely my destination. You can trust your new compass, you'll have fun with it. R
Ps: Double check is Always recommended: magnetic anomalies or reading errors are not immediatly recognizable due to the needle moving smooth and slow.
Great content.
A protractor is not necessary to calculate grid azimuth on a Commenga compass. If you line up the white bezel line with the grid lines then calculate the numbers of clicks to meet the declination you are ready to rotate your body to put "red in the shed" and march on a magnetic course.
Re: declination
Rotate the bezel in the direction of the GM angle. Click left for westerly (negative), click right for Easterly (positive). 3 degrees per click. I am 16 West. 5 clicks to the left. I will be off 1 degree. No big deal for most of us. Heading back I aim off more than a degree. Usually 5.
An orienteering compass is great to use due to the built in protractor and declination adjustment. They just do not last long. Having an "army" compass as back up is smart.
I have a maptools protractor and also a super pliable half protractor in my nav kit.
Thanks for the great content.
The war model had many more references, you were only eight clicks away from any position , where by now it's sixty
Thanks for the quick no nonsense explanation. Great video. 👍
Thanks Marty! Which one do you prefer?
Straight and to the point!!! Great Job!!!!
👊
In the 80, and 90's ( armoured recce)I used the 16dcl Silva. I used and still use now
Great channel. I use a K&R Merridian pro and the Cammenga (for dark movement). The Cammenga is good but the K&R is more accurate. Both are excellent. There will never be a bubble in the K&R because of the thermoplastic they use for the capsule. So niether will bubble up. This is just my opinion but not having a sight on the compass is like a rifle without sights; especially for non-trail "bushwacking".
I agree with the choice. Cammenga is a "buy once, cry once" product that will serve you well and will outlive many baseplate compasses.
So true!
Love the navigation tutorials, far better than any instruction I’ve received on active duty! Any videos coming soon on rucking tips? (Pack recommendation, setup, etc?)
Glad you’ve enjoyed them! I do have a couple vids on packs up - survival kit, tools and gear review playlist.
I’m sure I’ll do more!
I Always Have a needle Compass it doesn't have anything, indeed it's classic to know which direction you are facing and great in travelling
I bought a Commenga compass.
Very nice!
I have a cheap baseplate compass, but it seems the commenga with its metallic housing, not effected as much from outside metallic objects like the plastic baseplate compass.
Commenga far as I know, don't use fluid to stabilize the pointer in side as most compasses have.
Still, very solid in its movement.
The Commenga, big thumbs up from me!
It's all heavily forested at my latitude, no need for the for the sight wire of a lensmatic since it's always trees in you sight line, and of course, there is no straight path. I also rely heavily on quad maps, so a baseplate it is for me. As for durability, my Boy Scout orienteering "baseplate" compass was given to me in 1969, since then, it has gone thousands of hours and at least a thousand hiking, snowshoeing, and hunting miles through the deep woods with me with never a problem (although it will start to slush up at about minus 30F below if not kept close to your body).
This video really helped me out! I need a compass that has a fast bearing acquisition and nighttime capable without a flashlight to "charge" it. The only downsides to the Cammenga seem to be that is has less bells a whistles, like a mirror, magnifying glass, a clinometer, and not being able to adjust declination. However, It seems to shine with fast acquisition, compact, rugged design, and the tritium illumination. Having to buy a protractor with it, for map reading, is just par for the course and might actually be better in practice.
I like you have both a Cammenga lensatic and a baseplate compass. The Cammenga I have two because I believe that two is one and one is none.
Btw, just found and subscribed to your channel.
Glad you found me Jim!! And couldn’t agree more about how to do real math!
Bravo........how many compasses........three.......for safety.........if they point in different direction ......u have a safety check with back up....cheers
I have both types. Compasses are pretty cheap nowadays if you're willing to settle for an off brand model just for casual use.
Two is 1! And no need to break the bank if you don't have to!
I tend to go military as well, there a reason they have been used for years, also have the sunto mc2 also but pretty mych use the cammenga 3h thank for video
I always thought that the bubble in the base plate compass helped to quickly get the compass level. My preference is the lensatic. Thank you for a great video.
🍺🇺🇸
Thanks.
Never in military, base plate has
Always worked for me, going back
to 1970.
Lensatic compass. I have a base plate. Its only a ride along because 1 is none. And as far as which is better. I truly don't know. But I am more used to my lensatic. As far as using them in different hemispheres I have never had any issues except for the heading being reversed. ( i am joking).
Keep up the good work and make more vids bro.
Thanks for your kind words! At the end, both point north, so I’m not sure ones better, but what are we used to using - I’m a lensatic guy too, though I love some of the features of a baseplate.
I too carry both!
@@STOKERMATICI have watched your videos about land nav, as well as the grid cordenances video. I think that you should do a video on topography maps reading and plotting. Since terrain / mission can dictate that a person may not continue in a straight line. I saw a hikes gone wrong were a guy and I assume (b/c it was not stated) his gf. They lack anything close to situational awareness and end up in a group of trees all of which had at or above shoulder lvl scratches. I mean deep scratches. Every tree for 40 ft in east west trail they took ( guessing to ford easier but they did not exactly explain why.) My only idea is they did not know how to find a BETTER place to cross at from not reading the contures or the obvious signs even I could see on my smartphone screen. So it came as no surprise at all when they meet a 5 ft tall black bear. If they had read the map topo correctly the first time then they would have known that the ground went up on 3 sides and the only quick exit (well quicker) following the steam down and guess where Mr bear came from? So a long Story shortened. I believe a lot of ppl would benefit from a 2 part video on how to read the topo and plan accodingly. Combined with a reading your A.O. /O.E. for general situational awareness. Those would be awesome vids. Btw really liked the home made fire starters how to vid. Keep the great vids stocked brother.
Have a good rest of your day.
Wow! Thanks for such a great contribution to the conversation! If you check out my playlists, you I’ll find some I did in 2019 - I do plan on some more this year as well because I agree that that if we know our area, and know how to read a map it can save a ton of time - energy, and increase security.
@@STOKERMATIC Thank you for the reply. I did just find your reading topo maps video. I guess I should have looked through the playlists more thoroughly prior to recommending you make a video. Sorry about that, I do think you could Do land nav vid for new butter bars, because land nav does not mean call the platoon Sergeant when the Lt gets lost. 😎
Hey, no worries! I actually want to continue to refine some of the ones I’ve already done and expand in some new areas.
I’ve been toying with developing a LandNav Master Class - a series of 10-15 vids, include map, protractor, compass and pace beads...
Still in development mode, but I think it may have a market.
I like to have both, one is for taking more accurate longer range bearings (lenstatic), but for short range bearings when traveling, especially in thick stuff, or when being within 3-5deg is sufficient I'm more than happy with a base plate. My Silva baseplate I inherited from my father is 45-50years old (he brought it for tramping about the time I was born)
Now I've read a bit about compases over the last few weeks, just received my Camenga Tritium just the other day, Brunton is an excellent compass and some Brunton fetch nearly a $1,000 bones but I feel the Brunton is set towards the Surveying profession, as for the Camenga is designed for more of a brutal environment, Battle, Hiking, Climbing environment's etc...Only my opinion though.
Thanks for the Compass throwdown Stoker, Good show.🇺🇸👍✌️
I have busted a Cammenga - but for the most part they are king in the field!
@@STOKERMATIC Well, still have to keep in mind, it is a precision instrument and should be treated as such within reason.👍
@@ericdee6802 what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
@@incorectulpolitic I'd stick with the Camenga. finding the "Utmost" accurate you probably couldn't carry it, that would be a Maritime compass, which will run $THOUSANDS.... As for durability and price, if its tough enough to guide our troops to safety in battle, Camenga is the one.
@@ericdee6802 isn't tritium in the Cammenga radioactive? Are you not concerned?
Used a Lensatic when in the army, nowt wrong with it. But I've been using my same Silva Expedition 4 regularly for FIFTY years -still no bubble; don't bother taking into account grid magnetic angle in the UK because the declination is minimal (
I've always preferred the mirrored base plate compasses.
AND if Ii am not mistaken, in your video AND ON EVERY LIQUID FILLED COMPASS I OWN (5) there is a bubble in the liquid filled but never ever have I had a bubble in my Cammenga. It is actually not possible due to its engineering. 🙂 Stoker, you have to admit once you get use to the Cammenga its easy to use.
Awesome review video! :D
Great Comparison of the 2. I was thinking the magnetic compass would be more accurate. I have a cheap made in Taiwan "Open Trails" brand Compass/thermometer/whistle. Today I took it outback to test it & everything read pretty close Except North. It acted like it didn't know which way to point North & it wasn't pointing in the exact opposite direction it had of south.
After your review I believe the Brunton TruArc10 would better suite my mapping needs. Thanks Again!
Much gooder than the Taiwanese one!
Thanks ! What about a surveyors transit / Arty compass ? I used one calibrated in Mils long ago to augment My nav pak and USGI Comenga . Found it very useful .
I dig em but they aren’t very useful for land nav in the move, IMO.
I still use the compass I got in the army 25 years ago. It's a baseplate compass with a mirror.
lensatic cammenga got it in the coast guard in 1977 .still works but not in the dark anymore.
Awesome!
You should send it into cammenga they'll re put the tritium on it
Semper Paratus !
Lensatic, hands down. How about a video on how to get accurate map directionals using the straight edge, like yours, and how to use a compass without a straight edge, like my cheaper plastic version.( Campco).
I dig it Darlene! Sounds like a good idea to do a comparison!
Thanks for sharing the info
I bought a Cammenga compass, back when I could see. Now I can't see the wire when I hold it up to my eye. How do old guys deal with this? I'm guessing with a baseplate compass.
Use the centerhold technique.
Silva lensatic compass is very good. A lensatic makes it easier to get bearings with by aligning with topographical features. 😊
With the lensatic, would the $40 cheaper phosphorus be better for the long term?? No worries about tritium decay?? I see both on Amazon.
Great vid and love the channel. Have you made any vids showing how to set multiple azimuth points (destinations), and then doing the reverse to find one's way back to starting position?
Check out my landnav playlist
Great video. Thanks for sharing. GBU
Very nice comparison top. Loved the throwing of the lensatic. Also what jacket are you wearing. Very cool
Ah! Thanks! Had fun with this vid. Jacket is a Kuhl - can’t remember which one. It’s waxed so it’s nice up here in wet weather.
Does your cammenga say made in usa on it
Have you ever had to change out the tritium on your compass?
No - by the time I would get close I’d have a new one. But Cammenga will do it.
On a classic lensatic compass, why is there a second shorter line at 45 degrees from the first?
That’s actually a great question! I may have to find one to do a short video of it usage. That line is called a “Lubber Line” and is used when sailing to account for the wind.
I think it's historical. It gave 8 instead of 4 cardinal directions to set the bezel on older models, by lack of cardinal directions on modern models it also allows to do "boxing" at 90° AND 45°
i have the cammenga 3h lensatic compass and im learning to do a reverse azimuth.
Though I didn’t use a 3H this one walks through that
th-cam.com/video/uXEuIAcUPJQ/w-d-xo.html
Just a small point on terminology. The north on a map is grid north ie north along the vertical grid lines. Therefore when switching between compass and map you are applying a grid north variation - not a true north variation
Azimuth and bearing are not interchangeable words. Azimuth denotes the angle of a line made with the north end of the meridian (meridian is a straight line running from polar north to south), from 0 degree to 360 degree, clockwise. Bearing is the angle of made by a line and either north end of the meridian or south end of meridian and the angle cannot be greater than 90, either clockwise or counter clockwise. For example, bearing of North 60 degree East is the same with azimuth 60 degree; however, bearing of South 60 degree East is equal to azimuth 120 degree.
Appreciate you adding in to the conversation! I think when I use the words, I may say something like “check your bearing” or “check your azimuth” in which case they may be interchangeable.
Like many similar words they also have differences as noted.
@@STOKERMATIC Word. Thanks for doing the videos. They're very helpful!
The IRONY is that i keep the 3H on my person most of the time; however, keep the baseplate one in my bag for whenever I'm about "on foot " with a map [in the car]....so I basically have both with me in a way.. most if the time
Right on!
What about a Suunto base plate compass?
For most of my applications the baseplate is the better choice. I have a Recta with gobal needle and adjustment for decination a couple of Silva Field and a Silva Ranger with mirror. I might get a Cammenga just because it´s cool. The surplus shop in my neck of the woods only carry cheap knock offs that appear to be really flimsy and tend have a sticky needle. The direction they indicate as north depends on the starting position. The watch method is more accurate than that.
there actually is methods to adjust for magnetic-grid deviation on lensatic compasses by using the ring, its less straight forward than with baseplate models, but still possible.
Hi demonstrate a video about using button compass in proper way
Sounds good!
Keep both! One is none 2 is one!
I would like to go with the Cammenga but you lose the mirror compared to the Suunto MC 2. I try to go with multi use items. The tritium in the cammenga is awaome.
Good points!
I have found a base plate to be more useful. Lensmatic was what I grew up with but the base plate style seems easier to work with a map. Using it with a trekking pole gives me a steady base and I haven’t found loss of accuracy compared to the Lens.
I like being able to relate the compass directly to the map. #TeamBaseplate
Hard to argue with that!
Damn. That was great information. Thanks.
I’d like a compass for aligning an equatorial mount during the day. It must lie flat on a platform and true north vs magnetic north is important. But the difference between the two depends on latitude, longitude and elevation, so it varies from place to place. I don’t see how the flat compass can show you true north without that info.
Basically I’m still confused as to what to get.
Paul
Magnetic compass will only point to magnetic pole. A baseplate can be preset - so you could also use it for grid/true.
Magnetic declination is far more complex than lat/long/elevation - but it does differ from place to place for sure. And over time.
A good Silva, Suunto, or Brunton compass would do you well.
I’ve got plenty of videos about the different compasses and declination of your interested.
Thanks. I’m looking at the Suunto MC-2. I should know this stuff being an Eagle Scout. It’s interesting to learn. I loved your enthusiasm and video.
Thanks.
Paul
I have a lensatic compass that I got while I was in Vietnam. This thing is still like brand new except the tritium is dead. I don’t use it at night so it’s not an issue. I have to say that I can’t see the dial when I’m trying to shoot an azimuth. On a sunny day it reflects light so I can’t read the bearing. I want to like it but I prefer my Sunto MC2. Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
Don’t know if it can refurbished. But Cammenga may. Appreciate your service!!