Can Turbo Blankets Be Proven To Increase Performance?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- How Turbo Blankets Work, With Proof Of Faster Spooling & Less Lag
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Do turbo blankets actually work? What is the purpose of a turbo blanket? What are the advantages of using a turbo blanket?
This video involves two tests, one completed by myself and Humble Mechanic, the other as a thesis for a masters at UT Austin. For our tests, we seek to see if there are any major temperature differences between using a turbo blanket, versus not. This can mean different cabin temperatures, lower hood temperatures, lower engine bay temperatures, and even lower intake air temperatures.
The idea of a turbo blanket is that it keeps all the exhaust heat contained within the turbocharger, rather than radiating out from it. This means more heat is contained as useful pressure, and that pressure spins the turbochargers. With more pressure, you create more power. Does it actually work? Let's watch and find out!
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You have to wrap your turbo up in a nice blanky so it stays happy!
Aways fun working with ya Jason :)
HumbleMechanic you know the old adage: always keep it wrapped!!!!
Kristopher Klassen ;)
Yeah I don't have a blanket on mine. I think about installing one. But my compressor, exhaust housing, 02 housing and log manifold is all ceramic coated. Good idea to still get a blanket?
I don't know. I wonder what gain/loss you may see with it being coated already
HumbleMechanic Finally found the exact same study source and consumed it, before an introduction was made by either one of you two, or EricTheCarGuy, from a released video's content. I will have to make an extraordinary effort to spend more time reconnecting with a shade tree so it won't happen again. I enjoy the anonymity afforded by the snap judgments to avoid my kind made by strangers. It was hard to not have my soul saved 10+ times a day while out in public.
There is nothing like a good collaboration between two auto enthusiasts
Thank you
HumbleMechanic just subscribed
I'm gonna put a blanket on my Hyundai Accent's alternator to pretend I have a turbo blanket
Everyone knows the hotter your alternator, the better! Electronics just want the heat.
Yeah, yeah, brake it BREAK IT!
Squidward's House lmao!
@@EngineeringExplained I think the intent is to convert it to a fusion type power generator, REALLY fusing those hydrogen atoms in the air together! The wires and copper are engineered to handle these temps/pressures, derp.
Who says you have to have something inside of it? Just use a wire hanger to keep a turbo blanket looking like it's full and in place.
I was sold at the temperature data
Then you talked about improved torque curve now im stoked
Cédric Coulombe
This is for petrol(Gasoline) engines. If it’s a Diesel then they run cooler. As diesel exhaust run much cooler.
I suggested this to a friend of mine once (before I knew turbo blankets were a thing) and he laughed at me. TOTALLY VINDICATED! 😃
Validated would be the better word for youre not to blame for anything but instead have given your friend good advice
Who's laughing now.
I'm glad you guys talked about the oil temperature. That's the one thing I was thinking in my head that might end up damaging the turbo or degrading its life.
I'm gonna consider a blanket or some of that heat wrap. Sounds like a fun project.
You guys are a good combo. More vids like this!!!!!
Please keep collaborating guys. This was awesome!
Try to at least once a year!
I second this! Great stuff!
Very informative. Surprised to see the oil temperature in the turbo barely changed. No worries for added wear and tear then as the temperatures around the turbo are cooler also with the blanket.
The oil out temps were from the lab experiment done on the cummins diesel
where the conditions were lab controlled and precise.
I wrapped my stock wrx's TD04 in an ebay blanket yesterday because the old heat shield was missing. Came here in search of answers as to why it's spooling much sooner and doesn't lag. Most unintended power mod ever, I'm surprised.
The FLIR camera is baller.
It’s pretty sick!
the baller FLIR is camera
Justin's Pit Lane you can get a less capable one for like 500 dollars. Do 99 percent of what you would ever want to do
FLIR is mostly military contracts, so its has to be high end
One of my favourite duos on TH-cam! Keep up the good work
:)
Please do this test with exhaust manifold (header) heat wrap. I always wondered if wrapping header(s) made a difference
This header is not really built for a wrap. I think a wrap would just be super awkward on the header. It would however be great for a ceramic coat. But that introduces a lot of variables as the coating takes more time to do than the blanket.
Why not take off the manifold and get it ceramic coated and retest after that part has been coated to see performance gains.
Wrapping the whole exhaust is theoretically good but then you have to contend with the metal degrading quickly because of the super high temps
There are exotic metals like they use in F1 ( Inconel...$$$$) but the cost vs gain is probably better spent in a bigger intercooler etc. A coating is probably better as it still restricts the heat and protects the surfaces but allows a bit more cooling
@@HumbleMechanic Could you instead have a manifold blanket made? wrapping manifolds is a pain, but custom manifold blankets are not so bad to install. jsut clips on like a turbo blanket
Great video! Really interesting to actually see a thing I've been thinking about for years be tested and proven like this
It was great to see the how the blanket helps. I wonder what the comparison of no insulation Vs ceramic coating Vs a turbo blanket Vs the combination of a ceramic coating and a turbo blanket would look like. I would actually like to see how they compare after being tuned for each setup.
Came for the Turbo stayed for the beard. GLORIOUS
:)
Nice collaboration and research. I was skeptical about the pros and cons of a turbo blanket but now i'm glad i bought one.
Happy to hear it, it was great to have the thesis data from UT Austin!
The next thing i'm curious about is the performance/general benefits of a vented or raised hood!
How's that turbo doing now 🤔
Its doing great. lasted for years with no issue. It died recently when i tuned by car with ignition cut instead of fuel cut to get the pops and bangs LOL :)@@mad-meh2719
I make these at work, although our designs are a little more heavy duty, 2 layers of mesh, then a basalt mat, then ceramic wool insulation 25mm thick, and the outer cold face is a stainless steel woven silicone matting. Good stuff I really liked this vid :)
Which brand you working for
$50,000 FOR THAT CAMERA ?!?!?! With 50k I can buy the car i want twice :(
Hence just loaning it haha, yeah it's insane!
Are you going to do a Linex tech tips type thing?
Engineering Explained Does it get cable and scratch your buttocks with a laser beam from space for that price or did they diamond and gold encrust all components inside? Lol.
Definitely don't look at RED prices then lol
Price fixing cartel or monopoly. Don't you just love endless corporate greed?
I’m glad that you use Celsius like a good engineer. Fahrenheit is wonky illogical and I don’t understand it 😉
It is always good to see these two working together
I've got the Seek Thermal Camera for my iphone, super grainy image, but the price cant be beat (around $200). Pretty useful little tool to have around.
50-60 degrees F° on both the coolant and oil lines seems pretty huge to me. On something like a racecar/driftcar, this seems like it could help quite a bit with oil temps and overheating issues. On top of the added spool shown in the second tests, every turbski needs a blanky!
"stay fun, have safe, be dirty" -- Jason 2018
Snooze ya looze Eric. ;)
I see what you did there. ;)
Wow, this was such a nice video! The way you guys are able to translate all the scientific data to real world results and explaining everything in depth without it getting too complicatied is just fascinating! Nice work!
Hey Jason, does that heat kept in from the turbo blanket affect the turbo negatively, like wear and longevity etc? Also, can you make a video about the gold heat reflective tape? I’ve seen a couple videos but they used direct heat to test it not radiant heat. I’m kind of skeptical but no good experiment has been done to prove it reflect radiant heat.
Keep up the content!!
I just learned about this stuff, I'd be curious to test it as well.
@@EngineeringExplained please Jason? Go further on this! There’s so much to learn and discover on turbo heat management
GREAT Video!
All the questions I have asked and pondered answered.
And so, the answer to the 3 year old question I have had is yes. Yes I will get a turbo blanket.
Thank You.
Some of the most informative vids on all of You tube.
Now I have to ask... what if we continued to wrap the down pipe till it was out/fully under the engine compartment. Press that heat farther down the line and away from everything else.... hmm. I think I may wrap my down pipe also. Something for me to read on.
PTP recommends wrapping the DP. I emailed them and asked before I bought the blanket. There should be gains to be had too. Maybe a job for next time
I've heard some bad things about wrapping the exhaust (cracking, water getting trapped), wouldn't a blanket/shield be a better option? Might not be as effective though.
As always amazing video. You should do a video on engine decarbonization with water next. Also why coolant leaves your engine clean when your head gasket fails.
Any thoughts on how the increase in temperature of the turbo housing might affect the metallurgy long term? You're getting to high enough temperatures with the increase to potentially have an effect and I wonder if that's a legitimate concern or not?
I also wonder how it affects the oil >
Love the Oil Line directly over the hot Turbo :D
Yeah I spotted that. Mod 1: reroute that line!!!
Great turbo exploration with supporting data and informative comments.
Yes, you have to cool down your turbo. We have a tow airplane for towing our gliders into the air. We had a blown turbo due to improper cooling. Definitely cooldown afterwards for a minute (especially for aircraft since they run at a significantly higher average power setting).
This is a very good video
Thank you!!
Badass video I wrapped my exhaust intake and added a turbo blanket definite difference in heat resistance and throttle/spool response on a Mk7 gti
I didn’t think that they would be as useful as they are, very interesting and great colab guys!💪🏻💪🏻
Haha, please keep low expectations coming into my videos, and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised each time (hopefully). Thanks for watching!
Engineering Explained Haha, the videos are great man keep up the hard work! Always learn something new on your channel
IMO its a must for any performance BMW for example where everything is plastic in the engine bay and gets heat damaged all the time. Less damage is always great. The added performance benefit and is just superb.
This is fascinating, particularly the oil temp tests done at UT. I would be worried about wearing out the turbo prematurely, but it seems that if the oil is OK then as long as you let the oil do its job things will be OK.
Thank you for finally testing this. I’ve always believed keeping the heat in the hot side and cooling the cold side on the turbos were beneficial.
Awesome, can you do a series about racing physics? Trail braking, racing line, weight transfer, grip
Have done a good number of related videos, have a search on my channel if you're interested in specific topics! :)
Weight Transfer: th-cam.com/video/PHbw6dOev2I/w-d-xo.html
Racing Line: th-cam.com/video/4m94jpEp3Go/w-d-xo.html
FWD Weight Transfer: th-cam.com/video/dM5_rOKpnBw/w-d-xo.html
RWD Weight Transfer: th-cam.com/video/TjQIH_M5R3w/w-d-xo.html
Does the large beard ever pose a problem with belts/gears
this has to be the best comment on this video...
Car doesn’t make enough horsepower for it to matter 🤷🏻♂️
Defiantly if your near sighted
ya just tuck it into your shirt for work like that. lol
Very cool topic! But a turbo that wasn't designed to have a blanket on there wouldn't it be more prone to cracking and leaking oil via the turbine shaft or seals through to the higher temperature differences?
Keep up the vids! You guys working together is always fun and interesting to watch!
No it won't have an issue, if it was true then over couple months without the turbo blanker just the way "they designed it" then turbos will go to sht quick lol. But it's not true. It shooed to be very hot there.
Thanks guys, very informative from a practical view. Having seen a 350 C.I V8 ( 6.0 liter here in OZ) twin turbo fitted with blankets, I think it is a no brainer for the waste heat in the compartment alone. On popping the bonnet, I did not get face scorched and all the wiring and hoses etc would not be scorched and brittle. Then you have the performance/reliability benefits of not heating intakes, coolant and oil lines etc. To be thermodynamically pure, you should wrap or coat the whole exhaust system pre turbo but then you have metallurgical problems with the metal burning because of the high temps unless you go exotic. It looks like a blanket might even be useful on more humble cars like my TDi Sportage although I have no complaints about response but it would aid response and help the heat issue in summer ( 45 deg.C ambients) as long as there weren't bad effects on the DPF because of the extra heat passed along.
Chin blanket > turbo blanket.👍😆
Great video, Jason! It's always very entertaining when you and Charles are in the same room. After seeing you two on your Instagram clip yesterday, I hope you decide to post a blooper reel.😂 Have a great day.
Haha, there's always a mess of clips when we're together. Here's a blooper real that I have posted: th-cam.com/video/07kBbD93MFg/w-d-xo.html
Engineering Explained That's what I'm talkin' about. Funny stuff! I missed that one the first time around. Thanks for the link, sir.🙌
That was an excellent explanation - not *more* power, per se, but the same power earlier in the rev-range. So it might *feel* like more power, because you’re accelerating harder at the lower-end of the rev-range.
How long does it take to cool off with the turbo blanket and without the turbo blanket and can the turbo melt with the turbo blanket because it keeps the heat in and if the heat stayes in same will happen with cold air it will stay out
can you answer this please?
like if you want to hear the answer 🙂🙂🙂
I used to work in a truck shop and in 2 years only saw one melted turbo....the reason for that was a clogged and bent exhaust system and it was dumping oil into the turbo
This is a good question, how much materials suffer from added heat to turbo, exhaust pipes. Downsides need to be well tested before putting this on.
Oil needs to be tested as well for breakdown around the turbo
Turbo and exhaust lagging has been used in maritime industry for a while now, as we are trying to get the post out of the fuel we are burning and keep the efficiency of the engine/turbo high.
So now I am ordering two turbo blankets...thanks for the real info on this. (Going to be using on a '97 Nissan 240SX w/KA24DET (T3/T4) and a Dodge Dart with the 1.4 turbo engine)
The turbo I am running is a t3/t4, it fit really nice. And as it got hot and cooled, it fit even better.
Great if you dont mind a shorter turbo lifespan
Great video. I've been running a PTP turbo blanket on my car ever since I started modding it. Easily one of the best investments I've ever made.
Heat = energy. You want as much of that energy to remain in the hot side of the turbo as possible. If you really wanna see a huge difference in engine bay temps, wrap your exhaust components too. Heat management is your friend.
Wraps can make metal brittle. I picked up a ptp turbo blanket for my Cadillac ATS 2.0t but I didn’t wrap my high flow aftermarket carted DP. I instead used DEI silicon heat sealant spray (white) it actually looks pretty cool and works very well.
guys... just use a standarized measuring system. thank god you use celcius for the "engine measurements", but dont have much sense if you use fareheit for the ambient temperature. Use celcius for all!!
I grew up with Fahrenheit. When you talk about the weather in the US, you do so in Fahrenheit. For my viewers, all measurements were in Celsius. If it doesn't make sense, conversions are super simple. :)
yeah, it´s simple to convert, but it would be nice for consistency to say it on celcius (and include it on fahreheit on screen for all your american viewers). So you dont have to pause the video, go to google and convery fahrenheit to celcius.
Thats the only thing i critics i have of the video. The rest is very good.
Sry for my english btw, greetings from Argentina!
the part load implications in the study was amazing..............because when cruising, the part load throttle develops better boost which should be very positive for fuel economy.............the blanket prevents energy being wasted, when at part load there is not the same abundance of exhaust energy to get the turbine fully spooled.
All positives and no negatives. Makes you wonder why manufacturers don’t do this in production
my guess is cost.
HumbleMechanic na. It would be a fraction of a penny to include this on a car. Hell, Porsche charges like 9 g’s for red seatbelts!!!
As an Engineer at a worldwide OE I can tell you why - - COST
It increases vehicle weight raises the center of gravity up and moves it forwards. lol
Kristopher Klassen why would a manufacturer put something on a car that would make it run longer or better?
Something I’ve been considering, I live in Vegas, during 9 months it’s normal feels great, but when it goes above the 90’s it starts losing power. I don’t want a front mount intercooler, I mean let’s be real the hood scoop is fun. :D I’ll install a bigger better tmic eventually, but a turbo blanket seems like it might be able to help my issues.
does a turbo blanket reduce reliability/increase wear on the exhaust side of the turbo?
Nelayo Isso
Good question
Nelayo Isso Yes because of physics. No one seems to know to what degree.
That's a good question, and it would be dependent on if the turbo manufacturer was somehow depending on cooling of the turbo through radiation, which is covered up by a blanket, and whether or not the turbo can withstand the higher temperatures. Ultimately, the exhaust gases going in are the same temperature, but you're just keeping that heat in the turbo, creating useful work from it, rather than letting it escape.
but it could still increase wear on the exhaust side, if its not clear wether the turbo needs tha area to actually cool itseld right?
Definitely wondering about this. There has to be a negative to trapping that heat right next to the turbo.
Now I'm curious on how it will affect a turbo that is positioned in front where it gets air from the radiator like on my 2004 Saab 9-5 ARC. And to go a step further how much of a difference will exhaust wrap do as well as it looks to be there name of the game to keep the gases as hot as possible.
Would also be cool to see throttle response in the test under different RPMs and loads at those RPMs.
I also noticed there's a limit to the help extra heat would help with turbo pressure at peak pressure, but I'm curious to know if that was a fuel delivery issue or simply the turbo hitting it's volumetric design wall dispute how much hotter the gases where.
Very cool, well done video. I'm curious, besides oil temp concerns possibly effecting wear, might there by any other downsides with respect to turbo wear, by keeping it hotter than designed from the factory? I understand turbos are intended to run hot by design, but I'm curious if raising the turbo temp (by 149.4 *C in this case) could wear anything out faster? I know the bearings are located around the middle of the impeller/compressor assembly, further away from the turbo top, but I'm guessing they would be getting hotter as well. Over time, the turbo will be experiencing greater temperature swings between cold/hot/cold cycles, and maybe that could accelerate fatigue of the turbo housing, compared to stock? Then again, the difference could be negligible. Thanks again for another great video, science be praised!
I guess portions of the turbo are hotter than they would have been, but as they mentioned in the video, the exhaust gases entering the turbo are the exact same. If anything this is making the turbo temperature more uniform throughout...which is elevated in some spots and roughly unchanged in other spots.
It's interested to think about though, since certain portions of the turbo are seeing a heavier thermal cycling load.
Yeah, I just think the same. They could have gone further and talked about heat transfer through contact of those parts you mentioned. It is said OEM housings wear out and and can crack for such temp increase...
I listen to Gene Banks, concerning turbos, etc, and you are absolutely right.
Great video and technical details, thanks! So since oil temp is about the same, any negative effects on turbo reliability / longevity?
I suppose the exhaust turbine will be exposed to more energy, but I'm not sure if it wouldn't be able to handle this or not. As demonstrated, exhaust temps going in are relatively the same, outlet is slightly warmer with the blanket.
Your nearby rubber parts (hoses) will probably last longer because they are being shielded from the IR radiation coming off the turbo.
225 C isnt a small number, that is enough to scare me out of using one. i dont know how strong the outside of a turbo needs to be, maybe the metal being softened a little is fine but im not risking it.
yeah, I would think thermal expansion of parts would start becoming a factor at 225 C above "normal" operating temperature. I'd love to see follow-up studies examining how turbos designed without blankets in mind hold up under the significantly higher operating temps.
+raiden derp Especially if it's 225 C on the outside, who knows what the internal temperature is going to be like. For all we know it could be increasing the blade lengths to the point of catastrophic failure down the line. The increase in turbo rpm doesn't help either, especially when the peak rpm wasn't measured above 2500 rpm on the engine.
A lot of people are asking why OEMs don't put these on their cars.
Some said cost, which seems reasonable at first, but falls off when thinking of the enormous costs that manufacturers spend on small increments in other areas. My best guess would be that a turbo blanket would require proper cooling systems for the turbo after the engine is off, and that these systems don't overcome the perceived benefits. What the turbo blanket would do is keep the heat in the turbo. This is fine while the car is running because the turbo is cooled by circulating oil. But when the engine is turned off, that oil sits in the turbo and and has no way to cool down. There is a device called a turbo timer that alleviates this problem, but it also means leaving the engine running for a short time after the car is shut off. With a turbo blanket, that 15 seconds might become 2-3 minutes. That is fine for the aftermarket, but would be weird for an OEM car that needs to meet regulations in several countries and meet delicate branding in order to be sold.
But what does this do to the longevity of the turbo? Could be a quick road to needing a new turbo!
Yes, definitely true. Overheat of a turbo and overheat of oil inside the turbo.
C.A.T.S. have you atleast watched the vid? The oil temp remains the same
Oil temp, though important, is obviously not the only thing that affects how durable a turbo is.
Watched, but no one mentioned how was the oil temp measure.
I would imagine the exhaust housing would suffer increased wear from the higher temperature cycling. Probably would lead to a crack down the line.
High pressure steam distribution systems insulate all of the pipes, but they also go to great lengths to insulate the valves and fittings. They buy very expensive blanket set ups to button everything up. It would just seem to make sense.
Jason, the turbo surface temperature increase of 150 C concerns me a little. Would this decrease the longevity of the turbo considering the temperatures are drastically higher?
Concerns me too, i don´t use blanket in my turbo, i have installed an air conduct direct to the turbo which gets all the cold air.
Tip for all:
high temp 2000°f ceramic paint under wrap/blanket to prevent rust. And over to help seal in fibers, and keep things like oil spills/drips from soaking in ruining the wrap /blanket.
And don't just throw blanket on it wrap that sucker all the way to the Head. There's more low-hanging fruit in improving the effectiveness of a turbo.
Awesome video...”where they used lab coats and glasses” lmao
This really helps me with my choice of blanket on or no blanket definitely seems worth it in a A4 B7 2.0T
I wonder why auto manufacturers don’t install turbo blankets at the factory. It feels like there is more to the story, like possibly decreased service life.
Dan Alwood stock turbo car have smaller turbo.. it has more space for air ventilation..
Cheap, thats it
I also wonder if a turbo blanket would reduce reliability of the turbo...possibly temps are too high?
@@iu2 Turbos experience some of the hottest temps a vehicle sees, and they are engineered to withstand that.. as long as you didn't buy it off ebay
@@SupraSav Yes, I don't think temps are an issue with turbos (as far as blankets are concerned). I'd probably say it's most likely due to cost since that would almost certainly require a manual labor component to what is probably the usual automation aspect of manufacturing a car. Also, a service mechanic having to wrestle with it would be another cost consideration (although it would be a customer focused cost) for something that is essentially a performance luxury value added item versus the requirements for a stable operation component being added.
Id like to see a comparison of the turbo outlet pipes to the intercooler wrapped vs unwrapped in addition to the turbo blanket . I have a 88 7mgte supra where the intercooler inlet and outlet are very close to the turbo(I believe that the benifits of insulation on the ic piping will be huge for this particular intercooler design)
Do 1/4 tests with this
Could you please do a video explaining how gold insulation on intake manifolds works? I have seen it used in f1 cars but I don't understand how it helps street cars or is it just a placebo mod?
Hey, did you warm down once you finished the video? Also loved the permutation of ETCG's signoff!
ian connell I like how he didn't answer your question
There was the Blown Heads thing for just a few videos, and there's always the possibility they'll bring that back.
I feel †here would be downsides to the longevity of the turbo, and issues with vehicles that have EGR systems.. and possibly ones with DPF filters too? Love to see some further study of vehicles with these and the turbo blanket!
Do modern cars with after shutoff cooling pumps for the turbo require idle engine cool down? Fiat 500 abarth has a pump that runs if the turbo is still hot after shutoff
My GTI has that pump from the factory. This car was also not turbocharged from the factory. I still let it run for a minute or so before shutting it down, then let the coolant pump run until it shuts down.
how long you should let turbo to cool-down with that heatshield on it ? ... is 2 minutes still enough ?
Excellent,guys-keep up good work!
Thank you
This is the video that made me decide for putting a turbo blanket on my BWS K03 turbo.
Jason, very interesting video, thanks for investigating! So I assume a ceramic coating on the turbo would have the same effect? But that wouldn't be such a bargain 😅 Also, great chemistry between the two of you!
Yeah I don't have a blanket on mine. I think about installing one. But my compressor, exhaust housing, 02 housing and log manifold is all ceramic coated.
Maybe I'm wrong but having a "ceramic coated" turbo myself, I think the effects of ceramic coating are way exaggerated. It's not a magical material.
Ceramic coating isn't exactly insulating... I would think the advantage would just be protection from oxidation at the high temps a turbo operates at
The blanket mostly protects against radiative heat transfer, the blanket essentials catches this radiating heat. Once the ceramic coating is up to the same temperature as the turbo it will still radiate heat in the same way as if there was no blanket or coating. maybe slightly less but nowhere near the same amount a turbo blanket would.
Tom Higgins well, that does sound logical indeed. Thanks for answering. Have a nice day, guys!
Great info. Most manufacturers have a factory heat shield instead of a turbo blanket. I'd be interested in seeing a difference between a factory heat shield and aftermarket turbo blanket.
Even though I understand the thermodynamics here, I've nevertheless been umming and ahing about a blanket. Thanks for the brilliant explanation.
Q: would insulating the compressor side (even without a turbine blanket) help the IAT?
You'd be better off putting exhaust wrap on the headers
The turbo blankets do make a difference. I used one when I had a 99 Eclipse GSX running a HTA3076 being only 3” away from the radiator. I was having a lot of heating issues...even with the larger mishimoto radiator. I used the lava turbo blanket from PTP and it made a very noticeable difference.
Wow, nice camera (the one filming, not sitting on the bench). Is it new? Also, I love it when you two collaborate. Great stuff guys.
That's Charles camera. You're noticing 60 fps vs what I shoot in (4k 30 FPS).
Interesting. I usually watch in 720p60, but I wonder if the 60 fps just survives the YT compression better. I was 'seeing' better detail and pixel clarity as opposed to thinking it was an fps thing. With two talking heads, one would question how the fps would change anything. It's not like you're moving much. Hmmm. Anyway, thanks for the reply. Charles adds a lot to your vids, you two work really well together. And as stated earlier, the vid quality was excellent for whatever the reason. Those FLIR shots owned.
I think it has more to do with Charles using a lower resolution camera (to achieve higher framerates) and the downscaling isnt as significant, so you keep that quality
Compression also does have a lot to do with it though, so thats definitely a factor
Would keeping the heat wrapped up around the turbo and stopping it from escaping have any durability/long term effects on the turbo, such as shortening the life span?
It would be interesting to know the temp inside the blanket.
The blanket and exhaust wraps make metal brittle and prone to breaking. But it takes years and years and many many heat/cool cycles.
When I was in school, I was taught that turbos work from heat. More heat in the turbo= more better !
Try again, it's all wasted heat and compressing takes way more energy if you keep the heat in. It's the hole concept of an intercooler, or multistage compression.
He's correct. The turbo works from heat. This blanket keeps the heat in on the hot side of the turbo. Also the cool side from being impacted from this heat. It's a win, win. That said. Yes, you want cool dense air on the cool/intake side.
Frank. Turbo intake side vs Turbo exhaust side... We're talking the exhaust side. Watch the video.
Guy Curwick Damn right! More heat in the exhaust side means more expansion of gases, more gases means more choochoo
Turbos work on pressure differential. Heat is proportional to pressure in this case. The higher the pressure difference the faster the velocity, the hotter the gas the more it will want to expand through the turbine.
quite true with the temp... my boost temp went down to around 88 which is really cool compared to the usual 96 deg so about 10% less... did this today
Other than quicker spool wouldn’t the waste gate keep the boost the same?
The wastegate can control peak boost, yes. But how fast you get up to peak boost is not controlled.
Right that's what I figured. When you guys were talking about peak boost it sounded like you were implying that peak boost would be changed. Thanks for the reply keep up the great videos please.
Hmm, so basically similar to ceramic coating headers to keep the heat in and keeping the engine bay temperatures down. Great video!
the turbo radiating heat into the engine compartment makes my engine heat up faster. i like that! especially in winter :)
We proved that with in cab temps too. Not fun in the winter for staying warm
Jason
it heats up faster in summer too! :D
it’s a transportation vehicle (golf vi 1.4l 118kw (turbo+compressor)), not a sports car, so the engine cooling takes care of that without any problems.
Not at all. If you're running your engine hard enough to get your turbo really hot before the engine has reached normal operating temp, then you're asking for trouble.
Kamil turbo doesnt heat up untill it spools up under boost. So your theory is wrong.
That's not right. The turbo heats as the engine heats, with the exhaust flushing through. Sure, it doesnt hit peak heat till you're in high spool, but it would hit average heat without hitting the boost threshold.
My 9-3 Aero had to have basically a blanket or basically additional thermals for the turbo because it was melting other parts of the engine on at least the 2.8l V6 versions. So this makes perfect sense for me.
This is awesome
Thanks for the videos! What you didn't report was whether the turbo bearings were much hotter or closer to the oil temp. If the oil was not capable of extracting the heat due to a short time in the turbo before moving out and getting cooled again before returning the results do support that though they don't monitor it. Since the housing is much hotter and the oil isn't cooling it fast enough, the bearings are probably at a temperature beyond what they would normally operate. It is plausible that in hotter ambient temps, you might exceed the designed bearing temperature and prematurely wear them out.
But may this blanket increase turbo wear ?
I like when these two guys get together. Great team.
Can you make a video about that oil shield, between the hot side and the cold side of the turbo. Or at lease provide me with some type of literature.
I included a link to the original study in the video description, if you'd like to look into it a bit more. :)
If the turbine housing is 200C hotter, it will be likely to warp more, and more likely for the turbine wheel to rub the housing, causing blade damage and bearing failure. The blade clearance is typically < 0.020". I took measurements once that showed a turbine housing expanded by over a millimeter from thermal expansion. All housings heat unevenly and this causes transient warping and thermal fatigue causing cracks. Be careful.
One other point to make about messing with turbos, is when they are developed they are rated for certain maximum conditions, not to be exceeded, and it's important that you don't. An average turbine wheel at maximum rated speed contains more than 25kJ of rotational energy; 2x the energy of a 50cal bullet. The maximum speed of the blade tips is > 2000 ft/second (1400mph), faster than the muzzle velocity of most handguns. If you run the turbine housing beyond its qualified temperature, it may be weakened and may not contain a turbine wheel burst. Turbine wheels can literally split in half if oversped or the temperature too high and is cycled too many times. The turbine wheel can also separate from the shaft, and be ejected from the turbine housing outlet, which happens to be pointed back at you, and roll around at the remaining speed of the wheel, potentially hundreds of mph. Just so you know. Be careful, these are powerful machines.
As an engine engineer at an OEM, the only reason why we use the turbo and exhaust blankets is to reduce the temperature of engine components due to radiated heat during "pump tests" to qualify the engines for emergency and military vehicle ratings. The pump test is a btch. Imagine an engine at full load for HOURS with no airflow, other than the cooling fan. Also, imagine the fires that happen when something goes wrong. Holy carp. The scary thing is that with the heat blankets the risk of a catastrophic fire due to oil (or power steering fluid) leans goes UP. The Coast Guard requirements require lower surface temperatures to prevent those fires, There aren't any performance benefits to turbo wraps.
"There aren't any performance benefits to turbo wraps." It would appear that maybe you didn't watch the entire video... Check this link - Turbo Blanket Thesis Source: repositories.lib.utexas.edu/bitstream/handle/2152/43718/BICKLE-MASTERSREPORT-2016.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
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I did watch the entire video. I don't believe the source. They used a SF-901 dyno, a piece of junk that cannot be used for reliable measurements. The test setup is a bunch of crap. A low-inertia (and inertially compensated) AC synchronous dyno is needed to run those turbo tests. How do I know? I have run those tests, and it is a lot of work to do that type of turbo analysis. The dyno alone costs $400k, and the control room costs 10 times that amount. Some college kids at UT-Austin don't have a fraction of those capabilities. How can a SF-901 perform an inertially-compensated 500 rpm/second turbo test? The little college children don't have the equipment to run turbo tests, and they are so ignorant of turbo testing that they don't even know that they don't know what they are doing. Slapping a water brake dyno on an old Cummins engine means nothing. I didn't see anything in the test setup to accurately measure M-dot. No self-respecting turbo engineer believes that garbage in the UT-Austin test.
When I ran the turbo tests and qualifications the CAC was a HUGE influence in the tests, not only was the heat transfer rate extremely difficult to control, but the volume of the CAC system was critically important. No respectful engineer would use that K&N filter crap in a dyno cell. The combustion air intake had to be precisely controlled to temperature, barometric pressure, intake restriction, and humidity. A sloppy K&N air filter ingesting "dyno cell air" does none of that. I had to control exhaust scavenge blowers to control for turbine out pressure (curves). Only an ignorant professor would approve such garbage of a test.
I was looking, and looking, and looking some more for basic information that is necessary to process the data in the turbo tests. Where is Epm_nEng in any of the data? If they had access to the Bosch EDC, where is that information? The CAN data is way too slow for n.
Humble Mechanic + wayfarer sunglasses = ZZ Top! :-D
I feel like I should apologize for following you for years and not subbing to the channel.. very inconsiderate lol
Haha it’s all good, I appreciate you watching!
its funny that this just popped up, i was recently reading a thread on some Mazdaspeed 3 forum about ceramic coating , porting and polishing the stock K04 turbo(found on a bunch of cars from Colbalt SS/TC,GTI,TT,MS3/MS6 ect) what was he found was that the car wasnt making much more power(as he did before pnp/ceramic coating, after pnp/coating but no tune then post tune)but it was making almost the same power (i think he was up 5hp-10hp which could be attributed to environmental factors) just about 500-600rpm sooner, also the car was starting to run lean, post tune results were promising, the norm top out with that motor /turbo combo is around 320whp (ive heard more and less and im kinda sitting at the middle there)were with the port/polish and coating he hit 350whp now i should also point out that the down pipe and the exhaust manifold were also coated and that both the hot and cold sides were coated inside and out....its really cool what some heat management can do for a forced induction engine
So why don't the OEMs use Turbo blankets???
It's a great question - it could be cost, it could be designing the turbos for specific locations, could be from using relatively low boost. I'm not 100% sure.
I have to suspect cost as the culprit - a small price per car, but it adds up with volume (rather like that airline that saved millions by using one less olive in each salad.)
OEM turbos are running up to 18 psi of boost, sans blanket - considerably higher than the 12 psi on this car. However, it seems they're mounting them low on the back of the engine, up against the firewall...so presumably the airflow is removing the heat as it flows under the car before it can heat the engine bay too much. That's obviously a guess, but it has to be better than squeezing it in between the radiator and engine in the classic manner, where the heat can flow over the entire engine (including the intake manifold) before it can exit the bay.
Also turbo blankets are porous and could easily become dirty, or worse oil soaked in case of oil leaks. Of to gets oily, it could be a fire hazard. Car guys would hopefully keep it clean, but grandma would never notice until she had a fire.
Well that blanket is $140 on amazon. While economy of scale would definitely apply a part anywhere near that expensive is ridiculous when you can get a serious chunk of that using your standard metal heat shields. Another thing that I saw mentioned is the increased temperature on the exhaust piping leading out of the turbo (to the tune of more than 100C). So you would essentially be trading high temperature parts upstream for downstream. Depending on your layout that may be beneficial, but it's certainly not an always better scenario.
aussiebloke609 Makes sense
Thanks A Mill Bros, This Is Info I Craved. Now I'll Need A TPT Turbo Blanket .... When I Do A Turbo Build
Where the hell are you guys to be wearing jackets hats and gloves?
My shop. It was SUPER cold that day.
That TB wraps the exhaust side, but on many cars (FCA, Mini, etc) the blanket replaces the factory metal heat shield. It transmits less heat than the tin factory unit, but I wonder if it is effective in providing earlier power. It would be interesting to see a test of a gas engine vs a diesel.