Me and my rifle are so amazing that I shoot negative MOA groups. I am so accurate that the bullets seal up the holes in the paper as they go through. I can do this all day, every day, and all night, every night. So when you see me at the range and it appears as if I am just totally missing the target, know that it is the exact opposite that is happening. So just sit back and admire my i^2 inch groups. Great vid as always. You guys are a font of wisdom and knowledge.
Binge watched the "King of Two Miles" videos a few weeks ago. Seeing the difficulties world class shooters had using world class equipment makes your video just common sense.
SPOT ON! I constantly badger my friends to go shoot on the 115+ days here in Arizona. The heat does some crazy things along with the mirage and add some hideous winds... Yet I get the same answers. "Too windy, too hot, I wont hit anything" etc, etc. That's the point of going and learning! So I show the Mark & Sam crew with hideous wind noise behind them while they shoot...... " Oh well they shoot all the time" Your killing me Smalls!
I love how f**king honest you are !!! Dear EVERYONE at the range !!! Take a hint from Mark - your rifle and load may be a laser at 50 yards ... you however, are not !
i love it.....lol how about this one? ATTENTION EVERYONE AT THE RANGE......You may not care about mirage or temperature or elevation or environment or dare i say YOU'RE human but the bullet does.
Thanks Mark! Well said. I have found there are those few whose proclivity to sling bovine scat on conversation better than they can sling lead on target need only to be asked to show proof. That is when one will smell the dung of their tongue. Cheers to you and Sam!
I started reloading recently seeking for that perfect load, seating depth, looking for the rifle node, and driving myself crazy. THANK YOU for this video, I snapped out of it. 2 days later had my 1st time at 1000yds and everything I already had work perfectly. Thanks again for all the wisdom you shared with us.
I appreciate the honesty and transparency in your guys videos! I got a Ruger American Predator chambered in .223. Its a $450 rifle with a very budget friendly optic on it. I bought/built it to be a long range trainer and varmint rifle. It works great for those applications. Ive taken it out and printed clover leafs at 100yds. I’ve also taken it out and wanted to put it right back after a few strings of fire. Yes, ammo, conditions and the like all played into it. But when i look back at my notes and results the biggest inconsistency was the loose nut behind the trigger. God bless and I appreciate the content.
You’re bang on! Thanks for shedding some light on the reality of shooting well and what’s involved. We all need to be focused on our own consistency, not other peoples “good day’s”.
Very nice information. Thank you. I've been playing with reloading and target shooting for just a few years. Consider myself very new compared to most. I learn a lot from you and a few others and really appreciate your willing to share information. Love watching you and Sam. Both of you are quite talented. And wow what a spotter Sam is, incredible. Keep on keeping on. 😁
I think every firearm I've ever fired is actually more accurate & consistent than I am. Think that's the only precise claim I can make about accuracy :-)
Anybody else binge watching MarkandSam and still not even close to their skill level when going out to the range? Lol Love you channel please keep up the great work!!!!
I'm guessing you are probably familiar with Bryan Litz study on rifle precision? Basically from memory if you shoot 1000 yards at a 10 inch plate the difference between a 1 MOA rifle/ammo set up vs a 1/2 MOA set up with all other things equal amounts to less than 5% better hit probability. On paper at least, but the take home message is the same as yours. You have great info for all experience levels on your channel and I'm genuinely surprised you don't have alot more subscribers. Boring old factual information and knowledge gained from experience isn't for everyone I guess.
I always say if a guy spent as much time studying wind as he does at the bench he’d be very well off. Great video as usual sir. And the honesty is greatly appreciated.
Absolutely agree. The elements may conspire against you and you'll get flyers, or just as often it works for you. I found that a lot shooting muzzleloaders off hand. You have a great way of presenting and keeping it real.
Good information as always. Very common sense approach. We all get hung up on going down the rabbit hole into extreme measures thinking that the most minute details in reloading or equipment is what's missing when allot of it doesn't matter. Thanks Mark for the common sense video.
Mark, I can never understand why some give your very informative videos a 'thumbs down'. Don't people want to learn from someone who knows what they're on about?
So true, I set up my budget LR 6.5x55 rifle and went to my friends property there was no wind it was a mild day I managed 3 centirmetre group at 600m everything fell into place, I have not managed to to repeat it yet
Yes! Sometimes our small mistakes can decrease group size when we pull the bullet the right way. This is far more rare than our mistakes increasing group size, but it can (and does) happen. Nobody else has ever talked about this as far as I've seen.
I agree with you 100%! Some people get really upset over a bad group and to me they have lost sight of what, In my opinion, shooting should be about. Do the best you can but always have fun. That is one of the reasons I love your videos. Watching you or Sam shoot and seeing the fun you two have.
For those who gave a thumbs down, either go away or tell Mark and Sam what is it you disagree with! Thanks Mark and Sam, after 52 years of reloading and hunting, i dont waste powder and bullets to prove some dumb point! I love hunting... that is my calling!
I find it fun to chase the itty bitty groups, but I won't likely do it again after burning thru a barrel in 10 months back when supplies were available. I am happy with the way my .8moa load shots in my 6gt with only 1 competition on it so far. Doubled my average points but learned I need to really learn wind MUCH better. Thanks again for your bountiful knowledge.
That was excellent Mark. My friend and I consistently shoot sub MOA at 600 yards (except for flyers :-) and we feel like we must do better before we shoot out at 1000+ yards. After watching this video, I am satisfied with my occasional 1/2 MOA group at 600 yards and it is time to move out. I shoot factory loads and a Tikka precision rifle. My scope is modest. Achieving perfection as 600 yards is no longer my "aim". I want to go the distance. Hearing this from you has so much meaning.Thank you for that candid video.
Thanks Mark. I have been a little "tense" with my new 6.5 creedmoor Lithgow LA102. Thank you for reminding me that conditions are not perfect. What you had to say I have experienced with my Lithgow LA101 in .22lr. I have shot 250 out of a possible 250 with 5 centres at 50 yards. On other occasions, I have only achieved 236 out of 250 with only 1 centre. It is all about the conditions and I have a lot to learn.
That was something discussed in the LE/Mil arena a lot. They get an issue rifle that's 3/4 minute on a GOODw day. Issue ammo. ALL of the fiddly bits are stripped away. Look at some of the record shots and long-shot stories. It will blow your mind. It is ALL about the conditions. A first-round hit is one of the hardest things to do. Most accomplished shooters say the same thing you just said. An accurate rifle can help. Good ammo can help (good bullet MORE so than perfect load.) But the person that can assess the conditions the best os the one making hits. Its 80% Wind, 20% Everything else. Beautiful episode brother. Cheers!!
Thank you so much for what you guys do and for the information you put out. I. I find the information that you put out to be very it's a very understandable and helpful.
Dang, I love how you wade into the fray when you sense too much BS being spread around. Excellent points. You have freed me from spending all day at my loading bench trying to craft the perfect round for 10 minutes worth of shooting trying for a 1/4" group while my Kestrel Elite with AB lies in a drawer unused.
Great video again. I love the honesty. Everyone on the net is a 1/2 moa shooter. I see it all the time. Funny thing is when I shoot comp and the targets are small, there are only a few that can really prove it. Its the same way at every range and club I visit. Hmmm, those guys need to spend more time on the computer I guess. ha ha... I also like your ideas on the guys that focus too much on SD ES's. I see a lot of that crap too. I do, however, shoot a lot of groups to confirm my rifle is doing its part. The more downrange in that group is also more telling of rifle, shooter and load combination and how they are working together. That especially comes in to play when developing loads. Shoot a minimum of 5 shots per group, because I've seen some fluke 3 shot groups. Then to confirm your load, shoot some 10 shot groups. Never discount fliers if you are getting them. Watch the dispersion of your groups. Are you getting double grouping? You won't see that with 3 shots, it becomes more noticeable with 5 shots on paper. That's an indication you need to play with OAL. Let your rifle and load tell you what you need to do to improve it. I've developed loads this way and later checked sd and es, just for shits and giggles and you guessed it, the numbers were low, but I didn't intentionally focus on SD and ES. Checking velocities was my main concern for input into ballistic calculators for dope and then realize that those calculators are like hand grenades and horse shoes. They only get you in close, you'll have to confirm with real life shooting at those distances... As always, great video. I always appreciate your approach and mechanical minded views.
Really enjoy your "rants" on this stuff....it's always refreshing and without BS ..👍👍👍 If you ever want to do a 10 min video on how you stay so consistent 😉 With me I don't feel like I'm consistent enough with my shoulder or other body placement
Could be wrong ( probably are ) but I've always thought that every rifle ( badly built excepted) is capable of shooting 0 moa. The barrel and action is the only constant ( wear included ) everything else is the variable. Also many thanks for your talks, helping to understand and reduce those variables is much appreciated.
Great summary. So many people don't understand that. My 338 Edge, shooting 300gr bullets at 2995fps has a 1.5 mrad wind bracket at 2900yds with a 5 to 8 mph full value wind. There is no sub-moa group in this conditions. (At least not intentionally) Thanks for calling BS. Haha.
I’m new to shooting beyond 300 yards. My local 300-yard range is very well (too well) protected from wind; environmental effects are pretty minor & learning anything there about accounting for conditions is problematic. My skill in reading conditions at longer ranges (I’ve gone out to 1100) is nonexistent. So, as a newbie, when I shoot and the impact is not where I want it to be at these longer ranges, I don’t know if its my technique, my failure to read conditions, or my load. If I had a laser beam load, I’d place my bet on failure to read conditions. Most of my loads are pretty good but not lasers. Absent a laser, I’m struggling with two simultaneous variables. Component availability (almost none) and sky-high prices complicated the situation. BTW … your bipod shooting technique, even with those high-recoil cartridges, is amazing and inspiring. Love your channel … keep up the exemplary work.
The points that you are making in this video are completely true and non-abrasive to someone who is honest and realistic. And there are similarities about what I've always said about ELR hunting and how I would never do it on large game. After 400 and 500yards, I start adding factors that I cannot control and I do not feel very good about wounding large game that I will not recover. And those statements, I hope, are not abrasive to anyone but I think they should be considered. Thanks Mark!
I 100% agree with Mark about group size, but you have to factor ALL factors, 75% of the errors are on the HUMAN behind the trigger. The biggest thing is having fun, recording what happened, keep your targets, range-find your distances.
Love this video. I just got done developing my first load ever, and it was a fun but sometimes frustrating process. I've been watching these F class guys shoot 0.1MOA and thinking "I want to do that". I've shot some really great groups along the way. 0.15MOA was my best (3 shots), and honestly felt like I pulled one lol. I definitely feel like I'm the limiting factor, heck, my heartbeat alone seems to move the reticle about 0.3MOA, maybe more if I just had coffee. So after I got my load worked out I tried it out the next day, and shot around 0.5-0.7MOA (5 shot groups). Not bad, but I thought I had a more accurate gun/load at that point. I think I'm going to reset my expectations to 5 shot ~0.5MOA groups, and not get bent out of shape if I have a bad day. Great video, cheers!
Well said Mark. I put 600 rnds through a 284 I built chasing the small group. A Mauser action with an inexpensive scope. I've hit at a mile a couple times. I just go shoot and have fun. It is a . 5 moa rifle on a good day. Wind is the biggest challenge.
Fantastic Video!!! Really needed to see this! Sometimes being on forums or seeing all the stuff on youtube and endless amounts of information on the internet, I wonder how we EVER were shooters before. That's why I love your channel, because you explain things like they really are. Do I shoot as well as I did 40 years ago, no. But, I still do ok. They've been days where I could shoot a 3-shot group from a .300 Weatherby and cover the group with a dime. Then there have been days that I couldn't get a 30-06 to group less than 1.5", all at 100 yds. There are so many factors that go into each trip to the range, it's not always the equipment. But my 30-06 shoots better then 1.5" and my .300 Weatherby doesn't shoot that good all the time, my shoulder won't allow that, lol!!! Great information as always, Thank You!!!
Yup, you practicing is going to play a bigger role in what happens more than anything. Fundamentals are key. Having done your homework and paid attention to details with your rifle and ammo does help improving your odds though. That being said, most rifles are far more accurate than most people will ever be. Thanks for posting, cheers!
Awesome video as always. And to include a professional statement: My rifle does negative MOA groups. It’s so accurate I don’t even get rounds on the target…
Watched a bunch of benchrest guys at my club practicing one day. Some of their guns cost more than my truck. The one thing everyone of those guys have in common. Everyone of them have a “one hole” gun it just “won’t do it today”………lol
You are dead right about conditions being more of an influence. I have an anschutz 22lr target rifle that in perfect conditions will shoot one hole groups at 50m. BUT as soon as there is anything like a breeze I get both horizontal and vertical
Hah, how right you are, Mark. If you want to hear some of the biggest lies ever told, just listen to some shooters brag about how tight of groups their rifles shoot. I soon found that the biggest hindrance in shooting ELR was the inability of having enough adjustment for range, even though I had machined a 60 MOA rail I had mounted on my rifle. Now, to watch you adjust over 300 MOA for a shot makes my mouth water. You have advanced this sport remarkably well with the knowledge you have learned and I applaud you for what you are doing and have done. My only wish is that I was years younger to take advantage of your efforts and hopefully further advance this sport I have been involved with for the past 20 some odd years.
I don't shoot ELR as such but I like learning from your experiences. For me a rifle that I know is grouping reasonably well means that I can be confident that the rest is up to the nut behind the bolt. Thanks for your insights.
Getting to a .1 or .2 MOA load/rifle combination eliminates 1 variable. It's an important one, but there are many many other variables that influence your impact at distance. Well said mate. Cheers
Everybody's all John Wayne and gangsta until, the wind changes, or the distance changes, or the barrel warms up, or the cartridge sits in the sun, there's a million reasons bullets don't go in the same hole all the time. Just dump $$$$$$$ into your rig and all will be fine! Lolol Honestly though your video really was refreshingly right on target, thanks for you sincere analogy of the subject!
Mark your spot on 👍 ive never done load development for extra long range but just worked with pressures in .5 gr increments till i found the right pressure then go out and shoot . i can honestly say i dont know if my rifle shoots less than an moa cause i only test at 1k then go out further from there . ive shot one weekend and hit 1.8k 40% of the time and the next weekend not even seen a spash on the ground after 50 rounds walking away humbled and confused . theres so much to learn about wind and conditions it near inpossible sometimes to hit way out . ive seen .1 moa benchrest shooters try shoot out past 1k and come up with all the excuses under the sun cause they failed to even get close . keep up the good work as ive learnt lots from you cheers from Jason . a Shooter from Back valley long range
Most shooters find it difficult to believe just how much conditions effect their shots. A slight change in wind angle makes a big difference. Nice video.
Hello, I have 2 Tikkas for years. I think the average is around 0.4 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yds ; this is an average with the best loads, so sometimes a bit more or less. It's a good start for this kind of rifle, but I don't expect to get its accuracy at long range for the reasons that you told. I just consider it as the rifle's potential accuracy. Cheers
Learning everything by myself. I'm trying to get a group under 4 inches at 100. I'm sure the gun is fine. Not sure about the ammo as I have only used one type at the moment. But that 4 inches should be good for a double lung shot at 100 or under.....just finding confidence before I take that shot. Thanks again
Me and my rifle are so amazing that I shoot negative MOA groups. I am so accurate that the bullets seal up the holes in the paper as they go through. I can do this all day, every day, and all night, every night. So when you see me at the range and it appears as if I am just totally missing the target, know that it is the exact opposite that is happening. So just sit back and admire my i^2 inch groups.
Great vid as always. You guys are a font of wisdom and knowledge.
Lol, yes we get it, glad you liked, Cheers and all the best.
Hysterical
You have one of those rifles to?
Ha ha ha i can shoot like that with my eyes shut ha ha
Binge watched the "King of Two Miles" videos a few weeks ago. Seeing the difficulties world class shooters had using world class equipment makes your video just common sense.
Yep, just how it is, top to bottom, lol, Cheers
SPOT ON! I constantly badger my friends to go shoot on the 115+ days here in Arizona. The heat does some crazy things along with the mirage and add some hideous winds... Yet I get the same answers. "Too windy, too hot, I wont hit anything" etc, etc. That's the point of going and learning! So I show the Mark & Sam crew with hideous wind noise behind them while they shoot...... " Oh well they shoot all the time" Your killing me Smalls!
Lol, thanks James, Cheers and all the best.
I hope there not using rl 26 in that heat jeebus
Haha! Favourite monologue yet.
I still save pictures of my tiny little long range groups knowing darn well it was likely 1 good shot and 4 flukes! 😁
Lol, still got have lots sorted real well to fluke that good, glad you liked, Cheers
I love how f**king honest you are !!! Dear EVERYONE at the range !!! Take a hint from Mark - your rifle and load may be a laser at 50 yards ... you however, are not !
Lol, cheers Man, thank you.
i love it.....lol how about this one? ATTENTION EVERYONE AT THE RANGE......You may not care about mirage or temperature or elevation or environment or dare i say YOU'RE human but the bullet does.
Thanks Mark! Well said. I have found there are those few whose proclivity to sling bovine scat on conversation better than they can sling lead on target need only to be asked to show proof. That is when one will smell the dung of their tongue. Cheers to you and Sam!
Lol, well said, Cheers and all the best
Thanks! Refreshingly honest and down to earth advise.
Cheers Paul, thanks
I started reloading recently seeking for that perfect load, seating depth, looking for the rifle node, and driving myself crazy. THANK YOU for this video, I snapped out of it. 2 days later had my 1st time at 1000yds and everything I already had work perfectly. Thanks again for all the wisdom you shared with us.
Thanks Santiago, glad to have helped. Cheers
Mark I love your no bullshit approach. You have no idea how much your channel has helped me learn getting into shooting.
Awesome, cheers Jacob, thanks
Absolutely spot on, go out and have fun with what you got, and learn. Beautiful brake you have made btw. Will try it out soon.
Awesome, thanks Doug, cheers
I appreciate the honesty and transparency in your guys videos!
I got a Ruger American Predator chambered in .223. Its a $450 rifle with a very budget friendly optic on it. I bought/built it to be a long range trainer and varmint rifle.
It works great for those applications.
Ive taken it out and printed clover leafs at 100yds.
I’ve also taken it out and wanted to put it right back after a few strings of fire.
Yes, ammo, conditions and the like all played into it.
But when i look back at my notes and results the biggest inconsistency was the loose nut behind the trigger.
God bless and I appreciate the content.
Cheers Ron, thanks
You’re bang on! Thanks for shedding some light on the reality of shooting well and what’s involved. We all need to be focused on our own consistency, not other peoples “good day’s”.
Agreed, Cheers James
Very nice information. Thank you. I've been playing with reloading and target shooting for just a few years. Consider myself very new compared to most.
I learn a lot from you and a few others and really appreciate your willing to share information.
Love watching you and Sam. Both of you are quite talented. And wow what a spotter Sam is, incredible.
Keep on keeping on. 😁
✔✔
I think every firearm I've ever fired is actually more accurate & consistent than I am.
Think that's the only precise claim I can make about accuracy :-)
Lol, cheers Peter, thanks
That's true for almost everyone.....
Great insight Mark. You are open, honest, and Brilliant!! Thank you for keeping things R E A L. Cheers
Thank you Bob, glad you liked, Cheers
Excellent and well shared information.
Thanks Man
Absolutely correct! Enjoy your channel! Thank you
Cheers mike, all the best.
Anybody else binge watching MarkandSam and still not even close to their skill level when going out to the range? Lol Love you channel please keep up the great work!!!!
Thanks man, Cheers
I'm guessing you are probably familiar with Bryan Litz study on rifle precision? Basically from memory if you shoot 1000 yards at a 10 inch plate the difference between a 1 MOA rifle/ammo set up vs a 1/2 MOA set up with all other things equal amounts to less than 5% better hit probability. On paper at least, but the take home message is the same as yours. You have great info for all experience levels on your channel and I'm genuinely surprised you don't have alot more subscribers. Boring old factual information and knowledge gained from experience isn't for everyone I guess.
Thanks Brett, and agreed, lol, cheers
I always say if a guy spent as much time studying wind as he does at the bench he’d be very well off. Great video as usual sir. And the honesty is greatly appreciated.
cheers Man, thanks
Absolutely agree. The elements may conspire against you and you'll get flyers, or just as often it works for you. I found that a lot shooting muzzleloaders off hand. You have a great way of presenting and keeping it real.
thanks Man
Once again... brilliant observations
Thanks Man, Cheers
Thank you for this video. You are absolutely correct with your assessment of this topic. That, my friend, got you a new subscriber.
Thank you Mark. Cheers
Gracias por su sinceridad
Cheers Man
Good information as always. Very common sense approach. We all get hung up on going down the rabbit hole into extreme measures thinking that the most minute details in reloading or equipment is what's missing when allot of it doesn't matter. Thanks Mark for the common sense video.
Cheers Jim, thanks Man
I also admire how honest you are, it’s refreshing. If people start using absolutes like always, never, or best then you should maybe question it😏
Cheers Clayton
Thats what i call saying "IT" like it is ..well Spoke.
Thanks for the Video
Cheers Will, thanks
Mark, I can never understand why some give your very informative videos a 'thumbs down'. Don't people want to learn from someone who knows what they're on about?
Lol, some folks just have to, always, Cheers
This was a huge eye opener to myself! Thank you
Cheers Man, thanks
Mark you are my shooting encyclopaedia mate,,learn so much of your videos keep them coming 👍👍👍
thanks Man, glad you like em, cheers
So true, I set up my budget LR 6.5x55 rifle and went to my friends property there was no wind it was a mild day I managed 3 centirmetre group at 600m everything fell into place, I have not managed to to repeat it yet
Yep, sure happens, Cheers
You tell it like it is Mark, I respect that.
Keep it up brother.
Thanks Mike, Cheers
Very good dissertation!!! Very frustrating some days. thanks for point out some of the variables I had not thought about.
Cheers
Hit the nail on the head on this video mate
Cheer mike, thanks
You always have great information and insight. Thank you.
Cheers Richard, thanks
Yes! Sometimes our small mistakes can decrease group size when we pull the bullet the right way. This is far more rare than our mistakes increasing group size, but it can (and does) happen. Nobody else has ever talked about this as far as I've seen.
Thanks Sonny, glad you like, Cheers
You folks are great! I couldn't get sub MOA if I used a bayonet from 1 yard!
Lol, Cheers Doug, thanks
Well said Mark. Practice, practice , practice.
cheers Brian, thanks
I agree with you 100%! Some people get really upset over a bad group and to me they have lost sight of what, In my opinion, shooting should be about. Do the best you can but always have fun. That is one of the reasons I love your videos. Watching you or Sam shoot and seeing the fun you two have.
Thanks Billy, glad you liked, Cheers
Excellent video, nailed it.
Cheers James, thanks
Certainly spot on!
Cheers
For those who gave a thumbs down, either go away or tell Mark and Sam what is it you disagree with! Thanks Mark and Sam, after 52 years of reloading and hunting, i dont waste powder and bullets to prove some dumb point! I love hunting... that is my calling!
Cheers Tom, thanks
Excellent info. Thank you, Mark.
Cheers man, thanks
Wonderful no-BS info. Thanks for your insight.
Thanks John, Cheers
I find it fun to chase the itty bitty groups, but I won't likely do it again after burning thru a barrel in 10 months back when supplies were available. I am happy with the way my .8moa load shots in my 6gt with only 1 competition on it so far. Doubled my average points but learned I need to really learn wind MUCH better. Thanks again for your bountiful knowledge.
Cheers Man, thanks
That was excellent Mark. My friend and I consistently shoot sub MOA at 600 yards (except for flyers :-) and we feel like we must do better before we shoot out at 1000+ yards. After watching this video, I am satisfied with my occasional 1/2 MOA group at 600 yards and it is time to move out. I shoot factory loads and a Tikka precision rifle. My scope is modest. Achieving perfection as 600 yards is no longer my "aim". I want to go the distance. Hearing this from you has so much meaning.Thank you for that candid video.
Cheers Gary, thanks
Thanks Mark. I have been a little "tense" with my new 6.5 creedmoor Lithgow LA102. Thank you for reminding me that conditions are not perfect. What you had to say I have experienced with my Lithgow LA101 in .22lr. I have shot 250 out of a possible 250 with 5 centres at 50 yards. On other occasions, I have only achieved 236 out of 250 with only 1 centre. It is all about the conditions and I have a lot to learn.
Yep, can get like that, glad you liked, Cheers
That was something discussed in the LE/Mil arena a lot. They get an issue rifle that's 3/4 minute on a GOODw day. Issue ammo. ALL of the fiddly bits are stripped away. Look at some of the record shots and long-shot stories. It will blow your mind. It is ALL about the conditions. A first-round hit is one of the hardest things to do. Most accomplished shooters say the same thing you just said. An accurate rifle can help. Good ammo can help (good bullet MORE so than perfect load.) But the person that can assess the conditions the best os the one making hits. Its 80% Wind, 20% Everything else.
Beautiful episode brother. Cheers!!
Cheers Matt, thanks for that, glad you liked, thanks
Thank you so much for what you guys do and for the information you put out. I. I find the information that you put out to be very it's a very understandable and helpful.
Thanks man, glad to help, Cheers
This whole video, you hit the nail on the head🎯👍
Cheers
Dang, I love how you wade into the fray when you sense too much BS being spread around. Excellent points. You have freed me from spending all day at my loading bench trying to craft the perfect round for 10 minutes worth of shooting trying for a 1/4" group while my Kestrel Elite with AB lies in a drawer unused.
Thanks Chaz, glad you like them and even better if they help, Cheers
Absolutely...thank you for this. Great advice.
Thanks mate, glad you liked, Cheers
Good information Mark 👍👍
Cheers
Great video again. I love the honesty. Everyone on the net is a 1/2 moa shooter. I see it all the time. Funny thing is when I shoot comp and the targets are small, there are only a few that can really prove it. Its the same way at every range and club I visit. Hmmm, those guys need to spend more time on the computer I guess. ha ha... I also like your ideas on the guys that focus too much on SD ES's. I see a lot of that crap too. I do, however, shoot a lot of groups to confirm my rifle is doing its part. The more downrange in that group is also more telling of rifle, shooter and load combination and how they are working together. That especially comes in to play when developing loads. Shoot a minimum of 5 shots per group, because I've seen some fluke 3 shot groups. Then to confirm your load, shoot some 10 shot groups. Never discount fliers if you are getting them. Watch the dispersion of your groups. Are you getting double grouping? You won't see that with 3 shots, it becomes more noticeable with 5 shots on paper. That's an indication you need to play with OAL. Let your rifle and load tell you what you need to do to improve it. I've developed loads this way and later checked sd and es, just for shits and giggles and you guessed it, the numbers were low, but I didn't intentionally focus on SD and ES. Checking velocities was my main concern for input into ballistic calculators for dope and then realize that those calculators are like hand grenades and horse shoes. They only get you in close, you'll have to confirm with real life shooting at those distances... As always, great video. I always appreciate your approach and mechanical minded views.
Thanks Man, agreed and glad you liked, cheers
Very interesting…very honest…thanks for the great content…cheers from Texas!!
Thanks Matt, cheers
Really enjoy your "rants" on this stuff....it's always refreshing and without BS ..👍👍👍
If you ever want to do a 10 min video on how you stay so consistent 😉
With me I don't feel like I'm consistent enough with my shoulder or other body placement
we have videos on prone shooting position, the rest is practise, muscle memory and practise, Cheers
What I mean is ....there is a wiggle somewhere while I'm shooting and I need to find it hahaha
Excellent speech Mark 👏👏👏
Thanks Man, cheers
Great video! This is the truth of shooting..... nice to see this kind of transparency without the bullshit..... great job
Cheers Chris, thanks
Great video. Thank you.
Cheers
Yeah, it's a shame that some people can't be honest with others, or even themselves. Thanks for your honesty in this video 👍👌
Yep, just don't let it mess with you lol, Cheers
Could be wrong ( probably are ) but I've always thought that every rifle ( badly built excepted) is capable of shooting 0 moa. The barrel and action is the only constant ( wear included ) everything else is the variable. Also many thanks for your talks, helping to understand and reduce those variables is much appreciated.
0 moa, maybe a little far, but yes on the same page, Cheers
You always put things in perspective so I guess it’s true , luck is what happens when preparation meets requirement . Gooday mate
Lol, glad you liked, Cheers
Man, I love this guy so much! xD
Lol, cheers Tobias, thanks
Thank you
Cheers
Great summary. So many people don't understand that. My 338 Edge, shooting 300gr bullets at 2995fps has a 1.5 mrad wind bracket at 2900yds with a 5 to 8 mph full value wind. There is no sub-moa group in this conditions. (At least not intentionally) Thanks for calling BS. Haha.
Cheers chuck, thanks man.
Preach it Brother Mark..
Lol, Cheers John, thanks
I’m new to shooting beyond 300 yards. My local 300-yard range is very well (too well) protected from wind; environmental effects are pretty minor & learning anything there about accounting for conditions is problematic. My skill in reading conditions at longer ranges (I’ve gone out to 1100) is nonexistent. So, as a newbie, when I shoot and the impact is not where I want it to be at these longer ranges, I don’t know if its my technique, my failure to read conditions, or my load. If I had a laser beam load, I’d place my bet on failure to read conditions. Most of my loads are pretty good but not lasers. Absent a laser, I’m struggling with two simultaneous variables. Component availability (almost none) and sky-high prices complicated the situation. BTW … your bipod shooting technique, even with those high-recoil cartridges, is amazing and inspiring. Love your channel … keep up the exemplary work.
Glad you liked, Tim, Cheers and all the best.
The points that you are making in this video are completely true and non-abrasive to someone who is honest and realistic. And there are similarities about what I've always said about ELR hunting and how I would never do it on large game. After 400 and 500yards, I start adding factors that I cannot control and I do not feel very good about wounding large game that I will not recover. And those statements, I hope, are not abrasive to anyone but I think they should be considered. Thanks Mark!
Thank you Jeff, glad you liked
Great insight, ying and yang coming together.
yep, cheers Paul.
I 100% agree with Mark about group size, but you have to factor ALL factors, 75% of the errors are on the HUMAN behind the trigger. The biggest thing is having fun, recording what happened, keep your targets, range-find your distances.
Thanks Travis, Cheers
Love this video. I just got done developing my first load ever, and it was a fun but sometimes frustrating process. I've been watching these F class guys shoot 0.1MOA and thinking "I want to do that". I've shot some really great groups along the way. 0.15MOA was my best (3 shots), and honestly felt like I pulled one lol. I definitely feel like I'm the limiting factor, heck, my heartbeat alone seems to move the reticle about 0.3MOA, maybe more if I just had coffee. So after I got my load worked out I tried it out the next day, and shot around 0.5-0.7MOA (5 shot groups). Not bad, but I thought I had a more accurate gun/load at that point. I think I'm going to reset my expectations to 5 shot ~0.5MOA groups, and not get bent out of shape if I have a bad day. Great video, cheers!
Keep in mind, that those guys also tend to show the best 5% or less, not the rest 95% or more, and yes your new plan will sure help, Cheers
Well said Mark. I put 600 rnds through a 284 I built chasing the small group. A Mauser action with an inexpensive scope. I've hit at a mile a couple times. I just go shoot and have fun. It is a . 5 moa rifle on a good day. Wind is the biggest challenge.
Yep, thanks Jeff Cheers
Well said!
Thanks Rob
Fantastic Video!!! Really needed to see this! Sometimes being on forums or seeing all the stuff on youtube and endless amounts of information on the internet,
I wonder how we EVER were shooters before. That's why I love your channel, because you explain things like they really are. Do I shoot as well as I did 40 years
ago, no. But, I still do ok. They've been days where I could shoot a 3-shot group from a .300 Weatherby and cover the group with a dime. Then there have been
days that I couldn't get a 30-06 to group less than 1.5", all at 100 yds. There are so many factors that go into each trip to the range, it's not always the equipment.
But my 30-06 shoots better then 1.5" and my .300 Weatherby doesn't shoot that good all the time, my shoulder won't allow that, lol!!! Great information as always,
Thank You!!!
Cheers Ken, thanks
Spot on.
Cheers
Yup, you practicing is going to play a bigger role in what happens more than anything. Fundamentals are key. Having done your homework and paid attention to details with your rifle and ammo does help improving your odds though. That being said, most rifles are far more accurate than most people will ever be.
Thanks for posting, cheers!
Cheers Mike, thanks Man,
Grate advice
cheers
Bravo! TRUTH!
Cheers Man, thanks
Thank you sir. Bottom line is, enjoy it!
Sure helps, Cheers
😂 Love it! “You Yinn’d, and it Yang’d!😂
Lol, yep, Cheers
Awesome video as always.
And to include a professional statement:
My rifle does negative MOA groups. It’s so accurate I don’t even get rounds on the target…
Lol, Cheers
Watched a bunch of benchrest guys at my club practicing one day. Some of their guns cost more than my truck. The one thing everyone of those guys have in common. Everyone of them have a “one hole” gun it just “won’t do it today”………lol
Lol, yep, Cheers
You are dead right about conditions being more of an influence. I have an anschutz 22lr target rifle that in perfect conditions will shoot one hole groups at 50m. BUT as soon as there is anything like a breeze I get both horizontal and vertical
Thanks Tony, Cheers
Love your common sense comments, the countryside where you shoot is beautiful, I miss Australia!
Thanks Bobby, Cheers
Best Quote Ever! "I'm calling BullScat!"
Cheers
Hah, how right you are, Mark. If you want to hear some of the biggest lies ever told, just listen to some shooters brag about how tight of groups their rifles shoot. I soon found that the biggest hindrance in shooting ELR was the inability of having enough adjustment for range, even though I had machined a 60 MOA rail I had mounted on my rifle. Now, to watch you adjust over 300 MOA for a shot makes my mouth water. You have advanced this sport remarkably well with the knowledge you have learned and I applaud you for what you are doing and have done. My only wish is that I was years younger to take advantage of your efforts and hopefully further advance this sport I have been involved with for the past 20 some odd years.
Hi Craig, yes being able to dial as far as we can now sure makes this work better, glad you liked the video, all the best man, Cheers
I don't shoot ELR as such but I like learning from your experiences. For me a rifle that I know is grouping reasonably well means that I can be confident that the rest is up to the nut behind the bolt. Thanks for your insights.
cheers Man, thanks
great video!
Cheers Amir
The man knows his stuff
Thanks Man
Getting to a .1 or .2 MOA load/rifle combination eliminates 1 variable. It's an important one, but there are many many other variables that influence your impact at distance. Well said mate. Cheers
Yes, as said, but my other point is, no one is getting .2 "average", let alone .1, lol, Cheers
Everybody's all John Wayne and gangsta until, the wind changes, or the distance changes, or the barrel warms up, or the cartridge sits in the sun, there's a million reasons bullets don't go in the same hole all the time. Just dump $$$$$$$ into your rig and all will be fine! Lolol Honestly though your video really was refreshingly right on target, thanks for you sincere analogy of the subject!
Thanks Mike, glad you liked, cheers
Mark your spot on 👍 ive never done load development for extra long range but just worked with pressures in .5 gr increments till i found the right pressure then go out and shoot . i can honestly say i dont know if my rifle shoots less than an moa cause i only test at 1k then go out further from there . ive shot one weekend and hit 1.8k 40% of the time and the next weekend not even seen a spash on the ground after 50 rounds walking away humbled and confused . theres so much to learn about wind and conditions it near inpossible sometimes to hit way out . ive seen .1 moa benchrest shooters try shoot out past 1k and come up with all the excuses under the sun cause they failed to even get close . keep up the good work as ive learnt lots from you cheers from Jason . a Shooter from Back valley long range
Thanks Jason, Cheers
Most shooters find it difficult to believe just how much conditions effect their shots. A slight change in wind angle makes a big difference. Nice video.
Yep, thanks Kent, Cheers
Good Call 👌
Cheers
Excellent.
Cheers
Great show
Cheers
I agreed totally with every word you say Master.
Cheers Man
@@markandsamafterwork I follow your video a lot and my long distance shooting improve a lot thank you for the great tutorials
Hello, I have 2 Tikkas for years. I think the average is around 0.4 MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yds ; this is an average with the best loads, so sometimes a bit more or less. It's a good start for this kind of rifle, but I don't expect to get its accuracy at long range for the reasons that you told. I just consider it as the rifle's potential accuracy. Cheers
Cheers
Learning everything by myself. I'm trying to get a group under 4 inches at 100. I'm sure the gun is fine. Not sure about the ammo as I have only used one type at the moment. But that 4 inches should be good for a double lung shot at 100 or under.....just finding confidence before I take that shot. Thanks again
Great to hear, thanks Paul
You guys should really put together a podcast. I'd listen to every episode.
Cheers Sam