@@nicknorwitzPhD I challenge you to make a experiment for at least 3 weeks !!! And I guarantee you will not gain weight, it is impossible. Or prove me wrong, it is a challenge after all... This is it: A ,,meat'' included, ,,not really vegetarian'' food plan: Where you also must include all, exactly as they are, all the items below: Products that come from animals: -- (100g of oyster/ octopus/ other creatures that are bloodless/ per week) -- (80g of aged goat/sheep cheese, per week) -- (2 Tbsp of goat/sheep butter, per week) A small portion of special supercarb source: --Millet or Sorghum, Organic {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!} (100g to 120g of one of them, cooked ,,al dente'') Absolutely must: -- 50g of ground flaxseed, Organic {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!} (As a total, you need at least 10g of ALA Daily !!!) (You also need daily, a good Omega-3 to 6 Ratio of max. 1 to 4 {Not in the blood is measured the Omega-3, but in the brain, someone sed a lie a time ago we ,,Can measure'' DHA in the blood... No, we do not. In the blood, the DHA starts fibrillation. We need it in the brain and we make enough DHA from ALA in the liver , but it can't be measured by the blood test... !!!}) Energy fats sources (Also contain protein): --Macadamia, Cacao beans or 95% + Chocolate --Olives (free of any of the nasty seed oils), Avocados, Coconuts --Pecan, Hazelnuts (Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}, --Pistachios {Not the Californian glyphosate loaded version!!!} As protein sources: --Hemp hearts (They have ~32% Protein!) --TVP (Textured soy protein, Organic {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}) (This has ~40% Protein!) --Peeled almonds, ~21% Protein! {Not the Californian glyphosate loaded version!!!} --Defatted cacao powder, is at 20% Protein! A maximum of 3 Tbsp of the approved oils per day --Sesame Organic {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}, for cooking. --Organic canola {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}, for raw dishes and used raw as a seasoning to vegetables. --Or real olive oil for both cooking and raw as a seasoning to vegetables. Spices --Must include 1 Tbsp of mixed sumac and turmeric daily. --Must eat 1 Tbsp of herbs de Provence daily. --Optional additions: Black cumin, mustard (any spice except chili or chilli containing mix) Greens --Must eat 100-150g per day (any one, but not spinach) Vegetables --Any of the cruciferos type (must 100-150g per day) --Any of the endive or onion family (must 100g per day, these only raw) Absolutely must: -- From a few Tbsp the first days, to 100g Sauerkraut daily after the first 5 days. Forbidden foods: --Glyphosate loaded or antibiotic loaded --Tomato plant family and products from them --Cucumber plant family and products from them --Seeds, these ones: Chia, Cashew, Peanuts, Sunflower, Pumpkin --Any beans or grains (only millet and sorghum can be eaten and are a must daily) --Any artificial sweeteners (That are not allulose/ monkfruit/ xylitol/ inulin {this one cannot be heated above 50*C}/ erytritol {the ,,study's that claim problems with it are funded by Procter & Gamble...}) --Any Fruits that contain more than 3% fructose ! (for this challenge) --Any Cow dairy --Any meats that contain blood (it is a special unique challenge) --Ibuprofen, antacids! Supplements that must be taken and are a must: --B12 --Vit. D, minimum 9000 UI
Thank you, Nick! This was so huge as there are so many people out there that think LMHR are just people who eat too much meat or too much saturated fat. LEM is looking like a very strong model. Keep up the good work!
I'm not sure we agree on the point of the video or nutritional recommendations, if I'm reading your comment correctly... but I do agree "LEM is looking like a very strong model"
Pretty sure that liking and commenting on your videos increases the algos to put you higher on searches. So, here you go. Oh, and thanks again for great content.
@@anitachisnell8412 It's not necessarily unhealthy for everyone. Some people do not digest veggies well, like Nick. Me personally I been vegetarian for 20 years and I'm more than fine, as it my wife.
It's more because of his caloric restriction in his particular BMI range and lean body mass. His explanation of the lipid energy model details this, and to be honest, the title of this video should be different.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Was mostly a carnivore all my life. Dad ate steak 6 out of 7 days and hated vegetables with a passion.. Since he was rather a violent man, no vegetables entered his plate or ours for that matter. lol Realized how important it was after a car accident, at 21 and ended in a coma for 2 months, doctors put me on high protein, and high animal fat for my brain to heal, that is why I always found it weird all the vegan stuff. 99% meat for 54 years but let go of the cucumber, lettuce, and tomatoes that I rarely ate cause I noticed they would make me feel bad after, so II I took them out entirely. When I say my age people tend to freak out. :) No inflammation, barely have a wrinkle. Oh, and I don't put makeup on much, no foundation is needed. No wrinkle cream and no sunscreen, Yeah you heard that, I did say no sunscreen. Never get sunburn, no cancers, all is amazing Walk at least 5 km easily daily. 4 eggs daily, 6 out of 7 days, steak, 1 day fish. But usually, steak is my thing. I make myself Salmon skin chips Olive oil is my deodorant and skin care cream lol. It is said that carnivores do not have much body odor, probably not true for everybody but I have noticed it applies to me and my husband.
@@AliceFarmer-bg4dw Mostly. I do go to supper, sometimes I kind of want to test certain foods, cannot take more than a bite. but I always go back to my original diet I see the difference fast. As I said, veggies were not a thing. I am a small woman so portion-wise I go for the meat so it's easy for me I get full fast. I also skip meals easily funny how they call it intermittent fasting I call it,. Just my metabolism. Pasta and bread are a definite no-no. Get inflammation every time. My knees double their size and I cannot bend them. Honestly, never really thought about all those fab names, It was just what I learned from home. Also, I live in a cold climate. You need the meat if you want to not die of cold in Canada. lol. Almost forgot. Cheese, lots of it, love it as a snack and dessert. I just love to put some mascarpone with a small drizzle of maple syrup. :))))
I almost eat the same you do, and trust me I got some small bloodwork done and my cholesterol was 475, hdl 51, triglycerides 44, and fasting glucose was 84. The women called so quick about my cholesterol and nothing matter more but that lol. I always appreciate your self experiments and going beyond the norm because, i personally feel that we are losing this kind of perspective but I know that you are very optimistic and curious! Thanks again for an awesome video!!
@@joannajohnson5570 no, just base cholesterol, cause it was little bloodwork at for my job. ldl, I would have to get that done at my doctor or somewhere else.
I’ve been doing n=1 science on myself for years, and I didn’t know. Thank you for giving it a name and a platform! At this point, it feels like one of the few things we can really trust - ourselves!
You got it! I think you'd really like this: www.theepochtimes.com/health/paving-the-path-for-n-1-citizen-science-5747403?c=share_pos2&pid=iOS_app_share&OS_app_share
Interesting. I'm English and GPs here (including energetic, newly qualified ones) are still very much of the (trained) belief that high LDL will definitely put you at much greater CVD risk. Therefore they immediately "statinise" you! Are these methods / attitudes beginning to alter amongst your US colleagues in the profession? Not much sign of it in Blighty!
@@nicknorwitzPhDI am not a lean responder but I need to get my ldl down for a blood test in a few weeks. I am 75 and need to lose about 30 lbs. My physican is a good dr but obsessing a😢bout my ldl which is at 170. She wants it at 70 and wants me on statins ( which I am totally against ). I was keto/carnivore before adding the daily sleeve of oreos starting a week ago. I am afraid the oreos will screw up my blood sugar numbers so I decided to try sweet potatoe instead. Can you give me any advice? 😢
@@joannajohnson5570 The Oreo experiment wasn’t a recommendation to eat Oreos, it was an illustration of how diet can significantly influence cholesterol markers, which are often affected by factors beyond simple fat intake. Adding Oreos will just reverse all the healing your body was doing on keto/carnivore.
@@joannajohnson5570 "NIKKATTSU" is absolutely right Joanna. Leave the Oreos on the supermarket shelf. They were just a popular junk-food "tool" Nick used on himself. It was partly to grab attention, but also cleverly proved how little mainstream science knew about how our blood lipids respond to different foods....And in this case one of the LEAST healthy foods you could consume! So "don't do this at home"!
I love it. Finally a place where you can send people to learn about the opposing opinions and views and I don't need to keep a 100 page google doc handbook with gathered studies and info.
This explains why my LDL cholesterol went from 163 to 132 on keto then jumped to to 197 as I’ve lost weight. I think there’s probably a mechanism that signals the liver to keep more fat in circulation as body fat decreases. That’s my theory anyway.
Exactly its a transporter. People need to read about the Biochemistry about it. If concerned do a test on arterial buildup and different ldl tests....Most keto/carnivore people know about this and debunk the scare but you need to check it still to be safe than sorry. However my understanding its not an issue overall on a Keto/Carnivore diet where you dont have carbs or are in ketosis breaking it slightly on occasion each couple of weeks with a short meal therefore dipping in and out.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Interesting. It is fun being an n=1 study too. My nurse practitioner I was seeing told me “oh I know you keto people you eat bacon everyday and your triglycerides go way up”. She got to see mine go from 153 to 87 and I eat bacon and eggs almost everyday. It’s always fun to educate people. Labs don’t lie. I think she enjoyed our conversations and at least she’ll be better prepared if she ever deals with future keto / carnivore dieters.
Nick, I went carnivore for two years to treat an illness, and I got my first-ever tan. I’ve heard other carnivores say they don’t need sunscreen anymore, and I thought that was absurd-until now. I’m not someone who has ever been able to tan. I’ve been paper-white my entire life, and the more sun I was exposed to, the more freckles I used to get. Now, I don’t get freckles at all; my skin just gets tanner. Is there any scientific explanation for this? I’m tired of hearing vegans say that carotenoids and sunscreen are the only things that protect us from the sun. It seems to me that our bodies can protect themselves pretty well as long as we are metabolically healthy.
This is only anecdotal, but I live in the desert. I stopped eating vegetables and increased my intake of meat and saturated fat and eliminating seed oils. I noticed over the past couple of years that I don’t burn in the sun anymore, even when I’m outside for some time.
I also noticed my skin is more resilient to sun exposure after a few months of increased meat (and egg) consumption, in the context of nearly 3 years low-carb eating. My tanning capability is probably average for my Mediterranean descent, so, at the start of summer, I still need a few days days of gradually increasing exposure or use of low SPF sunscreen, but this is less than previous summers and, after this, I seem to attain about double the no-sunscreen exposure duration without sunburn, compared to previous years. And when I overdid it one time, the redness went away more rapidly, typically by next day or so. Before, I had noticed that low-carb eating markedly widened my thermal comfort zone, for both the cold in winter and the heat in summer, but could not say for sure if there was an increase in UV tolerance.
Because on a carnivore lifestyle, your cholesterol levels are higher than any lifestyle. You can convert 7-dehydrocholesterol to cholecalciferol, also known as vitamin D3 and it activates as the most effective sunscreen.
@@APEXCARNIVORE Oh I see. It seems like D3 isn't literally working as an sunscreen but it repairs cell damage and acts as an antioxidant. So its like harnessing the power of the sun instead of blocking it. Something I couldn't really do when I was eating an extremely low cholesterol diet.
I used an vegan diet for years and my cholesterol has steadily climbed. When I switched to a lacto-ovo diet and started including cheese and eggs cholesterol remained high. Now I'm on a modified keto and plant based pescatarian diet. my cholesterol overall is the highest its ever been ..very high around 286/ldl 176 but my hdl 92 and triglycerides 58 are in very good ranges. Thanks so much for your video. I've been telling my primary care doctor for years that somehow my liver was kicking out more cholesterol to compensate for the lack of it in my diet and now I have the receipts. I am going to share your video with her. Thanks again
@@justadude4826 most of human civilisation always sttled near rivers or the sea. fish and seafood was always a staple food, even in winter. its normal to be doing well on that, even be dependent on it (omega-3s like DHA and EPA), if consumed from not as much polluted sources (modern age problem). i think people who dont do well on seafood are either rare genetics from inland civilisations that went dominant or just dont have mechanisms (the genes for them) to handle mercury and etc. in fish well.
I’m deeply honored Nick told me he’ll come on our podcast “Our Healing Journey with Metabolic Psychiatry “ when we return from our hiatus in 2025! After I started a well-formulated vegan ketogenic for bipolar/perimenopause, my life (physically and mentally) improved in profound ways. One of the reasons my Metabolic Mind Fresh Start Award means so much to me is that I do practice vegan keto. While the vegan approach remains controversial, this modality can be effective for people willing to research and obtain guidance from experienced medical professionals. Everyone is different.
This makes sense in my N=1 I never had LDL issues, until my BMI crossed down 25. And then raised continuously to 569 last time I checked and I think it’s higher now
You mean you went low carb and had normal LDL... then as you lost weight and crossed into the "normal" BMI range, your LDL shot up, like the case reviewed. Correct?
Another excellent video, Nick, and very timely too with this particular N=1 experiment, as I have been contemplating the same exact thing of going from mostly carnivore to full vegan to see what results I get. Color me excited and curious! And somehow I knew your experiment couldn't have lasted too long even before you said so, given your history of health/digestive issues that led you to low carb in the first place, if I'm remembering correctly. Keep up the good work, as it is greatly appreciated! And I will definitely check out that SiPhox link. Thanks!
Thank you for continuing to do these experiments - they are a gift to humanity! Here's an idea to consider: it would be super insightful to see the impact of each intervention on APOB, not just LDL. In fact, it might help generate scientifically valuable hypotheses if you identified foods/diets/interventions that differentially impact LDL and ApoB.
ApoB tracks parallel, although the LDL-C/ApoB ratio is higher compared to standard population… in one of our upcoming papers we place a big spotlight on ApoB… you’ll be shocked
This was soooooo good..I'd be in a world of pain if I did this. experiment.Over the last year,for an unknown reason,my weight dropped like a rocl even though I was eating my hflc meals for IBS. And yup,when I hit that magical point,my ldl shot up like a rocket. Whatever was going on,it stopped and my weight went up and ldl has dropped Bloody amazing!!!
Nicely done. Inspirational. I've been doing keto-vore for 3 years with great health benefits. Didn't need to lose weight, but did anyway. Finally found a keto-friendly general doc. Looking for ways to help others.
Interesting but of minimal value: 1 week is not long enough for metabolic transition, no wash out period, n =1 etc, etc. An interesting case study at least that will add confusion for many. Sadly, most don't get labs to see what impact their nutri approach is having on their system.
I wouldn't say it's confusing once you listen to his logic. He demonstrated his point that he can reliably increase his LDL on a keto diet simply by getting leaner, and this applies to a lot of lean people on a keto diet.
Your point isn't one I'd shy from... but I'd suggest your read these 4 papers: (1) ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(24)00009-1/fulltext (2) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38276308/ (3) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35629964/ (4) jn.nutrition.org/article/S0022-3166(23)72806-X/fulltext. You'll really like 4... it reinforces your point. That said, one of the points of our research is that lipid changes are incredibly dynamic... it's all about what claims are being made and the physiological context... again, at a high level, you'll like 4.
Great video. Thank you. After 35 years of experimenting I am still refining my diet and exercise all the time and still continue to experiment. My current diet trends towards a MediterrAsian style diet because it works for me at this point in time and has the variety I need for it to be sustainable. I am finding my diet and exercise is becoming more refined and there is a trend towards things that have become my staples.
Why did You choose KETO when going Vegan?? If a person wants to be a HEALTHY Vegan the right diet is the Low Fat Whole Food Plant Diet with 10% fat, 15 % Protein and 75 % Unrefined Carbs. And SOS free (No Salt, Oil or Sugar). With the mentioned Diet all my numbers (BP, A1c, Lipids etc.) went from crazy high to perfect 💪
So very true. The information is available but we humans are too busy doing other things instead of being curious about our own health. Thank you for this interesting material.
You're probably a hyper absorber of cholesterol like I am. BOTH plant sterols AND animal cholesterol hikes up my LDL (currently at 254). There's a test to see if you are a hyper absorber. I took it (from EmpowerDX) and found that I suck up plant and animal 'sterols'. Fun times.
Okay first of all this blew my mind. I have high LDL and body fat percentage of 11% and working out and boxing 2-4 times a week - also I intermediate fast, but I’m not on a keto diet. My doctor don’t know why my ldl is high. So if I understand this correctly, if I raise my calorie intake in my eating window I should be able to get my ldl down - or did I misunderstand? Is high LDL even a bad thing I my case or what do you recommend? I am also newly diagnosed with hashimotos which ruined my metabolism. Would love your take on this because I respect you the most! Many thanks in advance!
Thank you Nick It would also be great as you’re doing expanded data testing to see what other values change with your experimenting such as A1C, insulin, uric acid, etc. thanks
I'm a keto-lacto-ovo-vegetarian and getting sufficient calories is always the challenge (I don't enjoy guzzling a cup of olive oil and eggs are quite low calorie). I could definitely eat more eggs, but I'd have to eat a lot more. I'd need to eat triple what I currently eat (4) before I could drop nuts. So nuts are my caloric savior at the moment. So yeah, I have the same issue with occasionally not hitting my calorie target and losing 2-3 lbs almost immediately. I haven't tested my lipids when that happens, but I wouldn't be surprised if my apob/ldl spiked. Btw, I also love brussels sprouts and luckily they love me back ;-)
I am a non processed food vegetarian( olive oil and soy sauce being the most processed I’ll go) and I reach my calorie goal(3000, 6’1”, 165lbs) only by the help of smoothies. I don’t have enough time to chew otherwise. Find a recipe and toss your couple extra eggs in there, use milk as the liquid. I get 1400 calories a day with a smoothie in the morning and at night.
Nick, can we take an understanding of this experiment and the lipid energy model and make similar assertions about mixed diets with higher levels of carbohydrates? (e.g. 40% to 60% of calories from carbohydrates). Or for mixed diets, in lean individuals, do we need to go back to focusing on saturated fat, fibre and statins as the main tools to change LDL cholesterol levels?
You didn't specify PUFA content of the two diets. I suspect that PUFA would raise LDL more in the LMHR context, since the body is very keen on getting rid of excess PUFA, because it increases oxidative vulnerability, and therefore you have more lipid transport.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks. I bet you $300 that if you repeat the experiment, this time equalizing the number of calories between the two diets, and equalizing the amount of total fat between the two diets, that the diet with the higher amount of PUFA will raise LDL cholesterol to a greater extent, for the reason I described above.
Nick - but what about a key question? Should we be worried by high LDL? As a LMHR mine went very high on near-carnivore diet and my doctor wants me to go on stains to lower it.
So LDL shoots up on a lean person in search of fat to use for fuel, because there's less of it? Wow. That is genuinely fascinating! The ramifications of that are intriguing. I'm going to have to apply that paradigm to my past numbers now and see how that fits. Great stuff, Nick! Thank you!
Did your LDL return to normal ranges when returning to a non vegan keto diet with the increased calories? Tbh im not entirely sure i understood your point. Simply, should a LMHR in a lean state restrict calories or increase calories to control LDL?
The point isn't to place a value judgement on LDL levels. The point is to highlight an implicit tension to provoke curiosity. The physiology behind LMHR presents "curious" findings... what you conclude about the "value" of leanness, carbs, LDL, plant/animal-based diet is up to you but besides the point.
The point is how the body responds to changes is more closely linked to the lipid energy model than the mainstream allopathic model. If the allopathic model is therefore wrong, their belief that a high LDL is bad is also possibly wrong, so what would make you want to control it?
I'm more curious on how the LEM explains why that overweight person didn't raise their LDL when still overweight and on a Low Carb diet, and why only when lean the LDL went high. In short, I'm more curious in an explanation of that shift.
It would be interesting to see the effect on your exercise performance if you ingest simple carbs prior to your workouts. Also what would the effect of eating complex carbs at dinner be on your muscle recovery?
Interesting. I switched from a high carb vegan to low carb vegan diet due to prediabetes. My A1c is normal now, my triglycerides went from 233 to 60, my HDL from 50 to 77, and my total cholesterol/HDL ratio is 2.4. My LDL dropped from 99 to 80. I was in the high normal weight range when I started, and now I am 15 lbs. lighter. I am 58, post-menopausal, with a family history of heart disease, and all of my siblings are struggling with metabolic syndrome.
I have been LMHR on low carb for several years. Went mostly carnivore January this year and LDL increased even more. This video helps me understand why.
It has been found that a reduction in calorie intake can cause higher ldl due to the fat being released from tissues means that there is more cholesterol in the blood stream however over time this then decreases. Could this be the cause?
When your LDL went up, does that mean you were necessarily accumulating more plaque during that time, even though you were metabolically healthy otherwise? I think I'm in similar situation (low BMI, metabolically healthy, eat mostly high protein and (healthy) fats diet, very low carbs and my LDL-C is 280+). What gives?
SO if you are lean and you want to lower your LDL, you should eat a substantial amount of carbs? Also, I'd be very interested to see more about liver health and management.
Great experiment! But I'm a little confused about your explanation of the lipid energy model. You said that as one switches from carb burning to fat burning, the liver would make more cholesterol-containing particles to traffic around the muscles. What I don't understand is how you're switching from carb burning to fat burning. Between the two diets, there's only a 20 g difference in carbs. Questions: 1. Did the carbs in the animal-keto diet come from the calorie differential allowing your body to do gluconeogenesis? Is this what prevented the rise in LDL despite very similar carbs and protein intake? 2. When doing the vegan-keto diet: is the rise in LDL levels a neutral thing that should pose little risk or is it bad for the body? I'm curious since previous literature and videos I've read seemed to suggest that LDLs are bad.
I have done n=1 thanks to you. 17kg down in 7 weeks. Since then my weight has been stable +/-1 kg for 8 weeks. Eat when hungry - stop when tastes bad. Thanks 🎉
LDL means nothing by itself. Relying on cholesterol numbers is such a scam to sell pharma. I just watch your videos because I like your n=1 exposing the scam model.
I'd agree that LDL requires context, but leave it at that. I think there is generally a keyhole focus on a single biomarker and that can be a problem. That can be true at the same time as ApoB being an independent risk factor for ASCVD, although context influences the outcome...
I didn't say that. I do not, here, place any value judgement on LDL. I, myself, am monitoring my status carefully including with CCTA... thus far... I haven't had reason to abandon my ketogenic lifestyle as it provides far more than it takes
Interesting video Nick. When I started animal based keto some years ago my LDL cholesterol jumped and my doctor was concerned. My LDL dropped a few months later, as I suspected it would, to a more normal level. I suspect the initial weight loss probably spiked my LDL levels. My medical provider wanted me on statins and I told her that wasn't an option. Six months ago, and five years later after gaining all the weight back, I started carnivore. My total cholesterol was 171 with the LDL at 101. I had it checked again three months in and it had dropped to 154 with the LDL still around 100. It's now back up to 171 but now the LDL is 107. My BMI is still way above healthy so I probably fit the paradigm you shared. I need to get my particle sizes checked. I'm more concerned about those than the total number.
I've discovered I am a cholesterol hyper-absorber through self experimentation. Thanks for sharing your data. Looking forward to more content from you.
I have been trying to resolve my 17 year old Hashimoto's via diet, I went from carnivore to animal based (carnivore with mostly fruit and honey as carb sources with no cheat meals) because hormones can decrease on low carb including T3 and I was seeing no progress with medication reduction. When I added carbs in Dec 2023 I have gone from 300 mcg of Levoxyl to 88 mcg currently, but my weight has actually gone up by about 10 pounds with the carbs (I am overweight by about 25 or so pounds). I want to get off meds completely but I am not sure the mainstream baseline for T3 is accurate, so I am getting ready to start with some carb cycling before my bloodwork to see what happens. My understanding is that sex hormones go down among others on carnivore and cortisol goes up. So maybe some n=1 studies around hormones to better understand what may be happening.
My best friend died recently, became anxious about meat products after being diagnosed with Breast CA 7 years ago. She was organic everything since a teenager so was shocked by CA invading her body,. she decided that vegan and a handful of organic vitamins would prevent reoccurrence of cancer. Fast forward to future 7 years. Her body started to shrink, massive headaches, no energy. She went to doctor only to have cancer back in lungs again, brain and bone. She died within 2 months.
Great video so it seems to be the lower amount of calories as you explained. What about doing another one but now 100% carnivore but this time with lower calories to see if you get the same results on LDL?
@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks, .. I am a subscriber and closely follow ALL your videos. They are great and these experimants are exactly what me any many others, especially LMHR, are looking for!
Interesting experiment! I'm surprised you maintained protein levels and am curious how much was tofu vs the protein powder, and were those really the only main sources?
No it would not. The purpose is a metabolic demonstration of a major driver of lipid changes with carbohydrate restriction. In this case it’s the low carbs combined with leanness that’s raising LDL rather than “conventional” factors like high sat fat or low fiber
Interesting, but not unexpected given that it is consistent with your LEM. Has there been much investigation into correlations between specific intestinal microbiota populations and LMHR prevalence?
I like this experiment. Surprising that the change in energy intake is more effective than the increase in carb intake. Makes me wonder if the Oreo experiment is really about carbs, or whether it was more about adding extra calories to your diet. About the brussels sprouts; in my experience, it helps if you add just a touch of vinegar when you cook it. Some of the GI issues may be caused by bacteria.
Hi, this is interesting. so what you are saying is that when you are doing a lot fat burning -- whether long endurance Z2 training or keto the body will produce more bad cholesterol. This may explain why marathon runners often have a lot of calcium build up. So if that's the case, how do you prevent that from happening?
Age 74, BMI 30 Total cholesterol 329, triglycerides 37, HDL 78, LDL 244. On ketovore 3 years. Resistance training and peloton two time a week. Walks in between. Not Lean, but close to lean mass hyper responder phenotype. Luckily, my MD is on board with this and is encouraging. Will they expand this definition of the LMHR?
@nicknorwitzPhD What am i missing? I estimated your PUFA as Total fat - Saturated fat. On the animal based diet: 320-121=199g PUFA. On the vegan diet: 158-29=129g PUFA (199-129)/199=35% reduction in PUFA on vegan.
Before keto, I did the whole foods plant based diet strictly for 2 years. My LDL-C and triglycerides went to the stratosphere. Same experience; it was hyper caloric diet. I simply couldn’t stop eating. The energy has to go somewhere. I switched to keto out of desperation and was surprised that my lipid panel normalized and I dropped 40lbs.
I was keto last year after a couple of decades of paleo and this year have been WFPB and I’ve found the same thing - I want to eat all the time! Moving back to a paleo or mild keto approach now
@ for whatever it’s worth, I wish I had been measuring blood glucose on WFPB. I suspect it was going to the moon and back, causing a lot of the hunger, but I have no way to know, and I’m not going to go back now. Just something to consider if you haven’t changed dietary patterns yet.
@@kinpatu I actually have measured my BG a few times in the mornings on WFPB and it's been pretty surprisingly good! I should measure an hour or two after meals, though! I'll do that this morning, as I had oat groats and fruit for breakfast :)
@ Yeah my A1c during that time was reasonable, but I just have to wonder about the postprandial response. There’s no way to know now. All I know is I had to stuff my face every 3 hours, and you’d better not be between me and the food. I never knew what hangry meant until WFPB.
@@kinpatu haha I was SO hangry the other day when I got delayed for a work project in town the other day. Just checked my post-oats BG 2 hrs after breakfast, it was 112. Not terrible. I also just talked with my 19-year-old son who is a type-1 diabetic, asking him how high fat meals affect his insulin needs vs high carb. He said that his BG was unusually, persistently high for about three + days recently after he had a lot of fatty cheese and fatty/sugary desserts at a family event. Maybe the high fat made the cells more resistant to taking up the glucose? Interesting!
Merci beaucoup Nick !!!! Absolutly fan of your vidéos !!!! But for more sharing with people non english is it possible to put an automatic translation with differents languages ? Or to complicated ? Thanks by the way for your work 🙏
Can you please explain why people say what you eat doesn’t determine your cholesterol levels yet your cholesterol levels are constantly changing based on what you eat? I’ve heard this thousands of times but on a carnivore diet my LDL is sometimes high and sometimes it’s normal. I don’t get it and nobody has ever explained it well. I know our bodies make cholesterol and saturated fat matters but that’s about all I know.
I'd love it if you could cover Georgi Dinkovs thoughts on diet (and subsequently, Ray Peat, as Dinkov's work is largely based on his), and cancer. I know this is a broad subject, but I find all the conflicting information difficult to decypher as I don't have deep biological understand and haven't been able to find a diet which my body responds positively with.
Thanks for posting this. Have you looked at Alpha Lipoic Acid and R-ALA? Interestingly, it's synthesized from C8 MCT and has some interesting (reported) effects. I'm about to begin my own n=1 experiment when my order arrives.
Thank you for your sacrifice, keep the n=1s coming. Is LDL as required for lipid use from stored body fat vs dietary fat being used directly instead of being stored the same? On a similar diet wouldn't an obese person have higher daily energy requirements and be getting that from body fat whereas a lean person will be getting the majority directly from food, thus higher LDL? Do we see people intentionally trying to gain weight on keto style diets have their LDL go up even more?
What about metabolism and aging? We seem to expect our metaboliam to decrease with age but is that mainly an artifcat of losing muscle mass? If we maintain muscle mass, should we expect to have a level metabolism into old age? What are some other factors driving metabolisim besides mass and activity level?
Nick, this sounds great, but I am not clear on how to get started. My son and I both have autoimmune disorders (my son: ulcerative colitis at age 15, he is now 17 and I have Hashimoto's hypothyroidism). How do we get started? Carnivore, keto? Please help.
Type "how to start keto diet for beginners" into the search bar in youtube. Start with watching videos by: KenDBerryMD Dr. Eric Westman Dr. Sten Ekberg Dr. Eric Berg DC Replace "keto diet" with "carnivore diet" and add to the list of channels: Anthony Chaffee MD Shawn Baker MD Nutrition with Judy Steak and Butter Gal HomeSteadHow No Carb Life Jenny Mitich Jesse Chappus Max German Other search topics: "bart kay carnivore" "cywes carnivore" "carnivore diet mistakes" "Intermittent fasting" "carbohydrate addiction" "sugar addiction" That's enough to keep you busy for two or three years. "Stay curious." -- Nick Norwitz .
So, is the increase pathological? What if you are lean doing carnivore and have inflammation for other reasons? Like some people have said, LDL is the firewood, so if you have inflammation, there's going to be a big fire.
I'm not sure that's an entirely fair analogy. Nevertheless, the risk of being an LMHR is current unknown. These are the only risk data available so far: www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacadv.2024.101109
I sure would like to figure out why my LDL-C is so high on low carb. I've lost 70 lbs so far, but still have an LDL-C over 200. I have a zero CAC score. I'm currently in the 27 bmi range down from 40. Would love to know what I can do further to help lower my LDL-C...if necessary.
Wonder if you dropped calories, but did it on a high carb diet. Like an Oreos vs statin again, but hypocaloric while being high carb and low fat (macro-wise).
Loved your vid! I am vegan because purely because I don’t want animals to get hurt. My ldl is higher, same as my non vegan siblings. I would love to see you doing a vegan experiment and getting your ldl low at the same time.
Well, of course your vegan diet caused higher LDLs - you didn’t have the daily recommended amount of Oreos.
🤪
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
U won the internet for a day.
you got me... but tbh, in this metabolic context, you're technically correct regarding the impact of Oreos on LDL... pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38276308/
@@nicknorwitzPhD I challenge you to make a experiment for at least 3 weeks !!!
And I guarantee you will not gain weight, it is impossible. Or prove me wrong, it is a challenge after all...
This is it:
A ,,meat'' included, ,,not really vegetarian'' food plan:
Where you also must include all, exactly as they are, all the items below:
Products that come from animals:
-- (100g of oyster/ octopus/ other creatures that are bloodless/ per week)
-- (80g of aged goat/sheep cheese, per week)
-- (2 Tbsp of goat/sheep butter, per week)
A small portion of special supercarb source:
--Millet or Sorghum, Organic
{So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}
(100g to 120g of one of them, cooked ,,al dente'')
Absolutely must:
-- 50g of ground flaxseed, Organic {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}
(As a total, you need at least 10g of ALA Daily !!!)
(You also need daily, a good Omega-3 to 6 Ratio of max. 1 to 4 {Not in the blood is measured the Omega-3, but in the brain, someone sed a lie a time ago we ,,Can measure'' DHA in the blood... No, we do not. In the blood, the DHA starts fibrillation. We need it in the brain and we make enough DHA from ALA in the liver , but it can't be measured by the blood test... !!!})
Energy fats sources (Also contain protein):
--Macadamia, Cacao beans or 95% + Chocolate
--Olives (free of any of the nasty seed oils), Avocados, Coconuts
--Pecan, Hazelnuts (Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!},
--Pistachios {Not the Californian glyphosate loaded version!!!}
As protein sources:
--Hemp hearts (They have ~32% Protein!)
--TVP (Textured soy protein, Organic {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}) (This has ~40% Protein!)
--Peeled almonds, ~21% Protein! {Not the Californian glyphosate loaded version!!!}
--Defatted cacao powder, is at 20% Protein!
A maximum of 3 Tbsp of the approved oils per day
--Sesame Organic {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}, for cooking.
--Organic canola {So Not the glyphosate loaded version!!!}, for raw dishes and used raw as a seasoning to vegetables.
--Or real olive oil for both cooking and raw as a seasoning to vegetables.
Spices
--Must include 1 Tbsp of mixed sumac and turmeric daily.
--Must eat 1 Tbsp of herbs de Provence daily.
--Optional additions: Black cumin, mustard (any spice except chili or chilli containing mix)
Greens
--Must eat 100-150g per day (any one, but not spinach)
Vegetables
--Any of the cruciferos type (must 100-150g per day)
--Any of the endive or onion family (must 100g per day, these only raw)
Absolutely must:
-- From a few Tbsp the first days, to 100g Sauerkraut daily after the first 5 days.
Forbidden foods:
--Glyphosate loaded or antibiotic loaded
--Tomato plant family and products from them
--Cucumber plant family and products from them
--Seeds, these ones: Chia, Cashew, Peanuts, Sunflower, Pumpkin
--Any beans or grains (only millet and sorghum can be eaten and are a must daily)
--Any artificial sweeteners (That are not allulose/ monkfruit/ xylitol/ inulin {this one cannot be heated above 50*C}/ erytritol {the ,,study's that claim problems with it are funded by Procter & Gamble...})
--Any Fruits that contain more than 3% fructose ! (for this challenge)
--Any Cow dairy
--Any meats that contain blood (it is a special unique challenge)
--Ibuprofen, antacids!
Supplements that must be taken and are a must:
--B12
--Vit. D, minimum 9000 UI
Thank you, Nick! This was so huge as there are so many people out there that think LMHR are just people who eat too much meat or too much saturated fat. LEM is looking like a very strong model. Keep up the good work!
I'm not sure we agree on the point of the video or nutritional recommendations, if I'm reading your comment correctly... but I do agree "LEM is looking like a very strong model"
@@nicknorwitzPhD where is that shirt so i can buy it????
@@emiliomapplebeck5102 www.nicknorwitz.com/pages/shop#!/ ?
Fat tissue is produced when the body is trying to eliminate toxins, when it cant, it produces fat tissue to storage bad things.
Pretty sure that liking and commenting on your videos increases the algos to put you higher on searches. So, here you go. Oh, and thanks again for great content.
Same.
thank you and you're welcome :)
Please don't go vegan again. We don't want to lose you!
That’s so true, it’s just not healthy is it?
I'm not going anywhere.
@@anitachisnell8412 It's not necessarily unhealthy for everyone. Some people do not digest veggies well, like Nick. Me personally I been vegetarian for 20 years and I'm more than fine, as it my wife.
@@adim00lah Watch the video again. The problem is not digestion. It's the sharp increase in LDL for people in healthy BMI ranges that's the problem.
It's more because of his caloric restriction in his particular BMI range and lean body mass. His explanation of the lipid energy model details this, and to be honest, the title of this video should be different.
Carnivore, no cholesterol problem, no diabetes. 56 years old.
How long?
@@nicknorwitzPhD Was mostly a carnivore all my life. Dad ate steak 6 out of 7 days and hated vegetables with a passion.. Since he was rather a violent man, no vegetables entered his plate or ours for that matter. lol
Realized how important it was after a car accident, at 21 and ended in a coma for 2 months, doctors put me on high protein, and high animal fat for my brain to heal, that is why I always found it weird all the vegan stuff. 99% meat for 54 years but let go of the cucumber, lettuce, and tomatoes that I rarely ate cause I noticed they would make me feel bad after, so II I took them out entirely. When I say my age people tend to freak out. :) No inflammation, barely have a wrinkle. Oh, and I don't put makeup on much, no foundation is needed. No wrinkle cream and no sunscreen, Yeah you heard that, I did say no sunscreen. Never get sunburn, no cancers, all is amazing Walk at least 5 km easily daily.
4 eggs daily, 6 out of 7 days, steak, 1 day fish. But usually, steak is my thing. I make myself Salmon skin chips Olive oil is my deodorant and skin care cream lol. It is said that carnivores do not have much body odor, probably not true for everybody but I have noticed it applies to me and my husband.
56 years carnivore?
@@AliceFarmer-bg4dw Mostly. I do go to supper, sometimes I kind of want to test certain foods, cannot take more than a bite. but I always go back to my original diet I see the difference fast. As I said, veggies were not a thing. I am a small woman so portion-wise I go for the meat so it's easy for me I get full fast. I also skip meals easily funny how they call it intermittent fasting I call it,. Just my metabolism.
Pasta and bread are a definite no-no. Get inflammation every time. My knees double their size and I cannot bend them.
Honestly, never really thought about all those fab names, It was just what I learned from home.
Also, I live in a cold climate. You need the meat if you want to not die of cold in Canada. lol.
Almost forgot. Cheese, lots of it, love it as a snack and dessert. I just love to put some mascarpone with a small drizzle of maple syrup. :))))
@@cogitoanima2468thanks so much for your story, it is very interesting!
I almost eat the same you do, and trust me I got some small bloodwork done and my cholesterol was 475, hdl 51, triglycerides 44, and fasting glucose was 84. The women called so quick about my cholesterol and nothing matter more but that lol. I always appreciate your self experiments and going beyond the norm because, i personally feel that we are losing this kind of perspective but I know that you are very optimistic and curious! Thanks again for an awesome video!!
Was 475 your ldl?
Thanks for the comment. Just to clarify, you mean you eat a plant-based KD? Or you mean more like my baseline diet?
@@nicknorwitzPhD Yes, your base line diet, my apologies for that mishap.
@@joannajohnson5570 no, just base cholesterol, cause it was little bloodwork at for my job. ldl, I would have to get that done at my doctor or somewhere else.
yes that level is very high. add some veggies. see if it brings it down.
I’ve been doing n=1 science on myself for years, and I didn’t know. Thank you for giving it a name and a platform! At this point, it feels like one of the few things we can really trust - ourselves!
You got it! I think you'd really like this: www.theepochtimes.com/health/paving-the-path-for-n-1-citizen-science-5747403?c=share_pos2&pid=iOS_app_share&OS_app_share
Retired MD here. Same thing happened to me years ago. My lipids, glucose, and BP went crazy. Lesson learned.
Interesting. I'm English and GPs here (including energetic, newly qualified ones) are still very much of the (trained) belief that high LDL will definitely put you at much greater CVD risk. Therefore they immediately "statinise" you! Are these methods / attitudes beginning to alter amongst your US colleagues in the profession? Not much sign of it in Blighty!
Same thing? Do describe ... details appreciated...
@@nicknorwitzPhDI am not a lean responder but I need to get my ldl down for a blood test in a few weeks. I am 75 and need to lose about 30 lbs. My physican is a good dr but obsessing a😢bout my ldl which is at 170. She wants it at 70 and wants me on statins ( which I am totally against ). I was keto/carnivore before adding the daily sleeve of oreos starting a week ago. I am afraid the oreos will screw up my blood sugar numbers so I decided to try sweet potatoe instead. Can you give me any advice? 😢
@@joannajohnson5570 The Oreo experiment wasn’t a recommendation to eat Oreos, it was an illustration of how diet can significantly influence cholesterol markers, which are often affected by factors beyond simple fat intake. Adding Oreos will just reverse all the healing your body was doing on keto/carnivore.
@@joannajohnson5570 "NIKKATTSU" is absolutely right Joanna. Leave the Oreos on the supermarket shelf. They were just a popular junk-food "tool" Nick used on himself. It was partly to grab attention, but also cleverly proved how little mainstream science knew about how our blood lipids respond to different foods....And in this case one of the LEAST healthy foods you could consume! So "don't do this at home"!
Brilliant, amusing, uplifting! Love it all Nick - thank you for being you!
Glad you enjoyed it! So kind of you ☺️
I love it. Finally a place where you can send people to learn about the opposing opinions and views and I don't need to keep a 100 page google doc handbook with gathered studies and info.
This explains why my LDL cholesterol went from 163 to 132 on keto then jumped to to 197 as I’ve lost weight. I think there’s probably a mechanism that signals the liver to keep more fat in circulation as body fat decreases. That’s my theory anyway.
Have you checked out the lipid energy model? pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35629964/
Exactly its a transporter. People need to read about the Biochemistry about it. If concerned do a test on arterial buildup and different ldl tests....Most keto/carnivore people know about this and debunk the scare but you need to check it still to be safe than sorry. However my understanding its not an issue overall on a Keto/Carnivore diet where you dont have carbs or are in ketosis breaking it slightly on occasion each couple of weeks with a short meal therefore dipping in and out.
@@nicknorwitzPhD Interesting. It is fun being an n=1 study too. My nurse practitioner I was seeing told me “oh I know you keto people you eat bacon everyday and your triglycerides go way up”. She got to see mine go from 153 to 87 and I eat bacon and eggs almost everyday. It’s always fun to educate people. Labs don’t lie. I think she enjoyed our conversations and at least she’ll be better prepared if she ever deals with future keto / carnivore dieters.
This is absolutely fascinating. Thanks again for your brilliant work Nick 👍
Glad you enjoyed it and learned!
"Lean into the curiosity." All the THIS in that!
Lean into it... give in! Curiosity is core to humanity
Nick, I went carnivore for two years to treat an illness, and I got my first-ever tan. I’ve heard other carnivores say they don’t need sunscreen anymore, and I thought that was absurd-until now. I’m not someone who has ever been able to tan. I’ve been paper-white my entire life, and the more sun I was exposed to, the more freckles I used to get. Now, I don’t get freckles at all; my skin just gets tanner. Is there any scientific explanation for this? I’m tired of hearing vegans say that carotenoids and sunscreen are the only things that protect us from the sun. It seems to me that our bodies can protect themselves pretty well as long as we are metabolically healthy.
This is only anecdotal, but I live in the desert. I stopped eating vegetables and increased my intake of meat and saturated fat and eliminating seed oils. I noticed over the past couple of years that I don’t burn in the sun anymore, even when I’m outside for some time.
I also noticed my skin is more resilient to sun exposure after a few months of increased meat (and egg) consumption, in the context of nearly 3 years low-carb eating. My tanning capability is probably average for my Mediterranean descent, so, at the start of summer, I still need a few days days of gradually increasing exposure or use of low SPF sunscreen, but this is less than previous summers and, after this, I seem to attain about double the no-sunscreen exposure duration without sunburn, compared to previous years. And when I overdid it one time, the redness went away more rapidly, typically by next day or so. Before, I had noticed that low-carb eating markedly widened my thermal comfort zone, for both the cold in winter and the heat in summer, but could not say for sure if there was an increase in UV tolerance.
Because on a carnivore lifestyle, your cholesterol levels are higher than any lifestyle. You can convert 7-dehydrocholesterol to cholecalciferol, also known as vitamin D3 and it activates as the most effective sunscreen.
@@APEXCARNIVORE Oh I see. It seems like D3 isn't literally working as an sunscreen but it repairs cell damage and acts as an antioxidant. So its like harnessing the power of the sun instead of blocking it. Something I couldn't really do when I was eating an extremely low cholesterol diet.
I used an vegan diet for years and my cholesterol has steadily climbed. When I switched to a lacto-ovo diet and started including cheese and eggs cholesterol remained high. Now I'm on a modified keto and plant based pescatarian diet. my cholesterol overall is the highest its ever been ..very high around 286/ldl 176 but my hdl 92 and triglycerides 58 are in very good ranges. Thanks so much for your video. I've been telling my primary care doctor for years that somehow my liver was kicking out more cholesterol to compensate for the lack of it in my diet and now I have the receipts. I am going to share your video with her. Thanks again
@@justadude4826 most of human civilisation always sttled near rivers or the sea. fish and seafood was always a staple food, even in winter. its normal to be doing well on that, even be dependent on it (omega-3s like DHA and EPA), if consumed from not as much polluted sources (modern age problem). i think people who dont do well on seafood are either rare genetics from inland civilisations that went dominant or just dont have mechanisms (the genes for them) to handle mercury and etc. in fish well.
Crazy interesting experiment again Nick!
You're welcome!
I’m deeply honored Nick told me he’ll come on our podcast “Our Healing Journey with Metabolic Psychiatry “ when we return from our hiatus in 2025!
After I started a well-formulated vegan ketogenic for bipolar/perimenopause, my life (physically and mentally) improved in profound ways.
One of the reasons my Metabolic Mind Fresh Start Award means so much to me is that I do practice vegan keto. While the vegan approach remains controversial, this modality can be effective for people willing to research and obtain guidance from experienced medical professionals.
Everyone is different.
This makes sense in my N=1
I never had LDL issues, until my BMI crossed down 25. And then raised continuously to 569 last time I checked and I think it’s higher now
You mean you went low carb and had normal LDL... then as you lost weight and crossed into the "normal" BMI range, your LDL shot up, like the case reviewed. Correct?
Another excellent video, Nick, and very timely too with this particular N=1 experiment, as I have been contemplating the same exact thing of going from mostly carnivore to full vegan to see what results I get. Color me excited and curious! And somehow I knew your experiment couldn't have lasted too long even before you said so, given your history of health/digestive issues that led you to low carb in the first place, if I'm remembering correctly. Keep up the good work, as it is greatly appreciated! And I will definitely check out that SiPhox link. Thanks!
Amazing, as always!
Cheers Paul
Thanks Nick. Good talk.
Thanks Jerry
Thank you for continuing to do these experiments - they are a gift to humanity!
Here's an idea to consider: it would be super insightful to see the impact of each intervention on APOB, not just LDL. In fact, it might help generate scientifically valuable hypotheses if you identified foods/diets/interventions that differentially impact LDL and ApoB.
ApoB tracks parallel, although the LDL-C/ApoB ratio is higher compared to standard population… in one of our upcoming papers we place a big spotlight on ApoB… you’ll be shocked
@@nicknorwitzPhD ooooh- I'm really looking forward to the data (and your video) on this!
This was soooooo good..I'd be in a world of pain if I did this. experiment.Over the last year,for an unknown reason,my weight dropped like a rocl even though I was eating my hflc meals for IBS. And yup,when I hit that magical point,my ldl shot up like a rocket. Whatever was going on,it stopped and my weight went up and ldl has dropped Bloody amazing!!!
I’m sorry to hear about your pain. Credit to you for finding learning in the journey.
Nicely done. Inspirational. I've been doing keto-vore for 3 years with great health benefits. Didn't need to lose weight, but did anyway. Finally found a keto-friendly general doc. Looking for ways to help others.
Happy for you :)
Interesting but of minimal value: 1 week is not long enough for metabolic transition, no wash out period, n =1 etc, etc. An interesting case study at least that will add confusion for many. Sadly, most don't get labs to see what impact their nutri approach is having on their system.
I wouldn't say it's confusing once you listen to his logic. He demonstrated his point that he can reliably increase his LDL on a keto diet simply by getting leaner, and this applies to a lot of lean people on a keto diet.
If the traditional model would’ve predicted a drop in LDL after one week, then Nick’s experiment refutes that.
He would have to use someone else for an extended experiment since fiber is particularly dangerous for his severe gut problems
Your point isn't one I'd shy from... but I'd suggest your read these 4 papers: (1) ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(24)00009-1/fulltext (2) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38276308/ (3) pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35629964/ (4) jn.nutrition.org/article/S0022-3166(23)72806-X/fulltext. You'll really like 4... it reinforces your point. That said, one of the points of our research is that lipid changes are incredibly dynamic... it's all about what claims are being made and the physiological context... again, at a high level, you'll like 4.
you have my sympathies eating vegan for the week, your guts must have suffered a bit!.
As disclosed in the video... yep
Great video. Thank you.
After 35 years of experimenting I am still refining my diet and exercise all the time and still continue to experiment. My current diet trends towards a MediterrAsian style diet because it works for me at this point in time and has the variety I need for it to be sustainable. I am finding my diet and exercise is becoming more refined and there is a trend towards things that have become my staples.
Great video Nick, makes total sense & provides clarity. Carnivore 2 yrs, 60yo, BMI 20, TRIG 70, HDL 65, LDL 243. A1C 5.5. BUN 17. CRP
Great numbers. Stay carnivore 👍.
Why did You choose KETO when going Vegan?? If a person wants to be a HEALTHY Vegan the right diet is the Low Fat Whole Food Plant Diet with 10% fat, 15 % Protein and 75 % Unrefined Carbs. And SOS free (No Salt, Oil or Sugar). With the mentioned Diet all my numbers (BP, A1c, Lipids etc.) went from crazy high to perfect 💪
So very true. The information is available but we humans are too busy doing other things instead of being curious about our own health. Thank you for this interesting material.
Welcome
Great video Doc -- thanks again!
Very welcome!
Yes, vegetables have always made me sick! I eat all kinds of animal base meat …I feel better! Yay…👏🏻
You do you
You're probably a hyper absorber of cholesterol like I am. BOTH plant sterols AND animal cholesterol hikes up my LDL (currently at 254). There's a test to see if you are a hyper absorber. I took it (from EmpowerDX) and found that I suck up plant and animal 'sterols'. Fun times.
Okay first of all this blew my mind. I have high LDL and body fat percentage of 11% and working out and boxing 2-4 times a week - also I intermediate fast, but I’m not on a keto diet. My doctor don’t know why my ldl is high. So if I understand this correctly, if I raise my calorie intake in my eating window I should be able to get my ldl down - or did I misunderstand? Is high LDL even a bad thing I my case or what do you recommend? I am also newly diagnosed with hashimotos which ruined my metabolism. Would love your take on this because I respect you the most! Many thanks in advance!
This is similar to me too! Hopefully they’ll be an answer to this great question!
@@robrunz fingers crossed!
Thank you Nick
It would also be great as you’re doing expanded data testing to see what other values change with your experimenting such as A1C, insulin, uric acid, etc. thanks
I can tell you those metrics are pretty stable. A1c 5, insulin 3, uric acid always normal.
I'm a keto-lacto-ovo-vegetarian and getting sufficient calories is always the challenge (I don't enjoy guzzling a cup of olive oil and eggs are quite low calorie).
I could definitely eat more eggs, but I'd have to eat a lot more. I'd need to eat triple what I currently eat (4) before I could drop nuts. So nuts are my caloric savior at the moment.
So yeah, I have the same issue with occasionally not hitting my calorie target and losing 2-3 lbs almost immediately. I haven't tested my lipids when that happens, but I wouldn't be surprised if my apob/ldl spiked.
Btw, I also love brussels sprouts and luckily they love me back ;-)
I am a non processed food vegetarian( olive oil and soy sauce being the most processed I’ll go) and I reach my calorie goal(3000, 6’1”, 165lbs) only by the help of smoothies. I don’t have enough time to chew otherwise. Find a recipe and toss your couple extra eggs in there, use milk as the liquid. I get 1400 calories a day with a smoothie in the morning and at night.
Re Brussels... I'm jealous ;)
@@yochin1954 I hate to state the obvious, but if you have to 'create' a food in order to eat enough, you're not eating the right food...
@@sportysbusiness huh? I don’t understand what you’re saying. Are you saying to only eat single ingredient items and not to cook or combine anything?
Nick, can we take an understanding of this experiment and the lipid energy model and make similar assertions about mixed diets with higher levels of carbohydrates? (e.g. 40% to 60% of calories from carbohydrates). Or for mixed diets, in lean individuals, do we need to go back to focusing on saturated fat, fibre and statins as the main tools to change LDL cholesterol levels?
Interesting and thought-provoking!
Thanks Clovett.
This is very interesting Nick, still learning at 70. Excellent!
Glad you enjoyed it!
You didn't specify PUFA content of the two diets. I suspect that PUFA would raise LDL more in the LMHR context, since the body is very keen on getting rid of excess PUFA, because it increases oxidative vulnerability, and therefore you have more lipid transport.
I did though… watch again
@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks. I bet you $300 that if you repeat the experiment, this time equalizing the number of calories between the two diets, and equalizing the amount of total fat between the two diets, that the diet with the higher amount of PUFA will raise LDL cholesterol to a greater extent, for the reason I described above.
@@davidb9670 I refer you to: x.com/realDaveFeldman/status/1855390843613729256
Nick - but what about a key question? Should we be worried by high LDL? As a LMHR mine went very high on near-carnivore diet and my doctor wants me to go on stains to lower it.
Thank you for taking the bullet for us, Dr. Nick!
YW ;-)
Thanks Nick. Another great video. #StayCurious
Glad you enjoyed it! StayCurious!
Love the content, love the message!!
Thanks Tracy :)
So LDL shoots up on a lean person in search of fat to use for fuel, because there's less of it? Wow. That is genuinely fascinating! The ramifications of that are intriguing. I'm going to have to apply that paradigm to my past numbers now and see how that fits. Great stuff, Nick! Thank you!
Did your LDL return to normal ranges when returning to a non vegan keto diet with the increased calories? Tbh im not entirely sure i understood your point. Simply, should a LMHR in a lean state restrict calories or increase calories to control LDL?
The point isn't to place a value judgement on LDL levels. The point is to highlight an implicit tension to provoke curiosity. The physiology behind LMHR presents "curious" findings... what you conclude about the "value" of leanness, carbs, LDL, plant/animal-based diet is up to you but besides the point.
The point is how the body responds to changes is more closely linked to the lipid energy model than the mainstream allopathic model. If the allopathic model is therefore wrong, their belief that a high LDL is bad is also possibly wrong, so what would make you want to control it?
I'm more curious on how the LEM explains why that overweight person didn't raise their LDL when still overweight and on a Low Carb diet, and why only when lean the LDL went high. In short, I'm more curious in an explanation of that shift.
Wait wait how tf are you eating almost 3.5k calories everyday as MAINTENANCE? isnt it too much considering your frame?
if Cholesterol is the Repair molecule , could the vegan diet have caused enough inflammation to trigger more Cholesterol production by the liver ?
My question would be with all the Pufa's have you caused inflammation that requires more cholesterol/fats to fix? hence the rise in LDL.
Very ,very interesting,Thanks so much for all your experiments and explanations you doing for all of us curious people
So nice of you. My pleasure!
It would be interesting to see the effect on your exercise performance if you ingest simple carbs prior to your workouts. Also what would the effect of eating complex carbs at dinner be on your muscle recovery?
Thank you! I'm a LMHR and still trying to figure it out 😅 Recently started tracking glucose and ketones.
Enjoy the learning process :)
Stay curious! :)
StayCurious indeed!
Interesting. I switched from a high carb vegan to low carb vegan diet due to prediabetes. My A1c is normal now, my triglycerides went from 233 to 60, my HDL from 50 to 77, and my total cholesterol/HDL ratio is 2.4. My LDL dropped from 99 to 80. I was in the high normal weight range when I started, and now I am 15 lbs. lighter. I am 58, post-menopausal, with a family history of heart disease, and all of my siblings are struggling with metabolic syndrome.
I have been LMHR on low carb for several years. Went mostly carnivore January this year and LDL increased even more. This video helps me understand why.
Did you lose weight?
It has been found that a reduction in calorie intake can cause higher ldl due to the fat being released from tissues means that there is more cholesterol in the blood stream however over time this then decreases. Could this be the cause?
When your LDL went up, does that mean you were necessarily accumulating more plaque during that time, even though you were metabolically healthy otherwise? I think I'm in similar situation (low BMI, metabolically healthy, eat mostly high protein and (healthy) fats diet, very low carbs and my LDL-C is 280+). What gives?
SO if you are lean and you want to lower your LDL, you should eat a substantial amount of carbs? Also, I'd be very interested to see more about liver health and management.
Great experiment!
But I'm a little confused about your explanation of the lipid energy model.
You said that as one switches from carb burning to fat burning, the liver would make more cholesterol-containing particles to traffic around the muscles.
What I don't understand is how you're switching from carb burning to fat burning. Between the two diets, there's only a 20 g difference in carbs.
Questions:
1. Did the carbs in the animal-keto diet come from the calorie differential allowing your body to do gluconeogenesis? Is this what prevented the rise in LDL despite very similar carbs and protein intake?
2. When doing the vegan-keto diet: is the rise in LDL levels a neutral thing that should pose little risk or is it bad for the body? I'm curious since previous literature and videos I've read seemed to suggest that LDLs are bad.
I have done n=1 thanks to you. 17kg down in 7 weeks. Since then my weight has been stable +/-1 kg for 8 weeks.
Eat when hungry - stop when tastes bad.
Thanks 🎉
Happy for you!
What changes have you made?
LDL means nothing by itself. Relying on cholesterol numbers is such a scam to sell pharma. I just watch your videos because I like your n=1 exposing the scam model.
I'd agree that LDL requires context, but leave it at that. I think there is generally a keyhole focus on a single biomarker and that can be a problem. That can be true at the same time as ApoB being an independent risk factor for ASCVD, although context influences the outcome...
So should LMHR with a BMI of 21 NOT on a keto diet be concerned with high LDL?
I didn't say that. I do not, here, place any value judgement on LDL. I, myself, am monitoring my status carefully including with CCTA... thus far... I haven't had reason to abandon my ketogenic lifestyle as it provides far more than it takes
@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks. Understood.
Interesting video Nick. When I started animal based keto some years ago my LDL cholesterol jumped and my doctor was concerned. My LDL dropped a few months later, as I suspected it would, to a more normal level. I suspect the initial weight loss probably spiked my LDL levels. My medical provider wanted me on statins and I told her that wasn't an option.
Six months ago, and five years later after gaining all the weight back, I started carnivore. My total cholesterol was 171 with the LDL at 101. I had it checked again three months in and it had dropped to 154 with the LDL still around 100. It's now back up to 171 but now the LDL is 107. My BMI is still way above healthy so I probably fit the paradigm you shared.
I need to get my particle sizes checked. I'm more concerned about those than the total number.
Good vid Nick
Just curious, how tall are u and how much do u weight? 3479 calories sounds a bit high for maintenance
~5'8" and 9.4 stone or so... never in my life have I broken above 10 stone.
That experiment would have destroyed my stomach, thanks for the sacrifice.
It wasn't comfortable...
Thank you. I find these videos very interesting.
Glad you like them!
I've discovered I am a cholesterol hyper-absorber through self experimentation. Thanks for sharing your data. Looking forward to more content from you.
I have been trying to resolve my 17 year old Hashimoto's via diet, I went from carnivore to animal based (carnivore with mostly fruit and honey as carb sources with no cheat meals) because hormones can decrease on low carb including T3 and I was seeing no progress with medication reduction. When I added carbs in Dec 2023 I have gone from 300 mcg of Levoxyl to 88 mcg currently, but my weight has actually gone up by about 10 pounds with the carbs (I am overweight by about 25 or so pounds). I want to get off meds completely but I am not sure the mainstream baseline for T3 is accurate, so I am getting ready to start with some carb cycling before my bloodwork to see what happens. My understanding is that sex hormones go down among others on carnivore and cortisol goes up. So maybe some n=1 studies around hormones to better understand what may be happening.
Rather than increasing sugar in your diet, look at adding iodine and more fat. Helpful to your hormones but not your waistline :) Good luck.
My best friend died recently, became anxious about meat products after being diagnosed with Breast CA 7 years ago. She was organic everything since a teenager so was shocked by CA invading her body,. she decided that vegan and a handful of organic vitamins would prevent reoccurrence of cancer. Fast forward to future 7 years. Her body started to shrink, massive headaches, no energy. She went to doctor only to have cancer back in lungs again, brain and bone. She died within 2 months.
Thanks Nick, these kind of videos are eggxciting
Great video so it seems to be the lower amount of calories as you explained. What about doing another one but now 100% carnivore but this time with lower calories to see if you get the same results on LDL?
I have and I would. As a LMHR, weight/fat loss consistently yields an increase in LDL when carbs are kept in the ketogenic range
@@nicknorwitzPhD Thanks, .. I am a subscriber and closely follow ALL your videos. They are great and these experimants are exactly what me any many others, especially LMHR, are looking for!
How long were you on the vegan keto diet?
See video... I state that detail
Interesting experiment! I'm surprised you maintained protein levels and am curious how much was tofu vs the protein powder, and were those really the only main sources?
A democratization of science… FINALLY!
Let's go! Your data in your hands!
So hard to get properly bitter Brussels sprouts nowadays. All they sell are the new less-bitter varieties! They’re okay but sort of bland.
I usually find them tasty
Most vegans do not eat ketogenic diets. Does this trend hold true for vegan diets that are not ketogenic?
No it would not. The purpose is a metabolic demonstration of a major driver of lipid changes with carbohydrate restriction. In this case it’s the low carbs combined with leanness that’s raising LDL rather than “conventional” factors like high sat fat or low fiber
Interesting, but not unexpected given that it is consistent with your LEM. Has there been much investigation into correlations between specific intestinal microbiota populations and LMHR prevalence?
I like this experiment. Surprising that the change in energy intake is more effective than the increase in carb intake. Makes me wonder if the Oreo experiment is really about carbs, or whether it was more about adding extra calories to your diet.
About the brussels sprouts; in my experience, it helps if you add just a touch of vinegar when you cook it. Some of the GI issues may be caused by bacteria.
Hi, this is interesting. so what you are saying is that when you are doing a lot fat burning -- whether long endurance Z2 training or keto the body will produce more bad cholesterol. This may explain why marathon runners often have a lot of calcium build up. So if that's the case, how do you prevent that from happening?
Don't be too lean?
Age 74, BMI 30 Total cholesterol 329, triglycerides 37, HDL 78, LDL 244. On ketovore 3 years. Resistance training and peloton two time a week. Walks in between. Not Lean, but close to lean mass hyper responder phenotype. Luckily, my MD is on board with this and is encouraging. Will they expand this definition of the LMHR?
Nick, your PUFAs went down on the vegan diet. Couldn’t the reduction in plant sterols explain your higher LDL?
No they didn't. They increased by about 35%
@nicknorwitzPhD What am i missing? I estimated your PUFA as Total fat - Saturated fat. On the animal based diet: 320-121=199g PUFA. On the vegan diet: 158-29=129g PUFA
(199-129)/199=35% reduction in PUFA on vegan.
Before keto, I did the whole foods plant based diet strictly for 2 years. My LDL-C and triglycerides went to the stratosphere. Same experience; it was hyper caloric diet. I simply couldn’t stop eating. The energy has to go somewhere. I switched to keto out of desperation and was surprised that my lipid panel normalized and I dropped 40lbs.
I was keto last year after a couple of decades of paleo and this year have been WFPB and I’ve found the same thing - I want to eat all the time! Moving back to a paleo or mild keto approach now
@ for whatever it’s worth, I wish I had been measuring blood glucose on WFPB. I suspect it was going to the moon and back, causing a lot of the hunger, but I have no way to know, and I’m not going to go back now. Just something to consider if you haven’t changed dietary patterns yet.
@@kinpatu I actually have measured my BG a few times in the mornings on WFPB and it's been pretty surprisingly good! I should measure an hour or two after meals, though! I'll do that this morning, as I had oat groats and fruit for breakfast :)
@ Yeah my A1c during that time was reasonable, but I just have to wonder about the postprandial response. There’s no way to know now. All I know is I had to stuff my face every 3 hours, and you’d better not be between me and the food. I never knew what hangry meant until WFPB.
@@kinpatu haha I was SO hangry the other day when I got delayed for a work project in town the other day. Just checked my post-oats BG 2 hrs after breakfast, it was 112. Not terrible. I also just talked with my 19-year-old son who is a type-1 diabetic, asking him how high fat meals affect his insulin needs vs high carb. He said that his BG was unusually, persistently high for about three + days recently after he had a lot of fatty cheese and fatty/sugary desserts at a family event. Maybe the high fat made the cells more resistant to taking up the glucose? Interesting!
Merci beaucoup Nick !!!! Absolutly fan of your vidéos !!!! But for more sharing with people non english is it possible to put an automatic translation with differents languages ? Or to complicated ? Thanks by the way for your work 🙏
Fascinating!
Indeed
Can you please explain why people say what you eat doesn’t determine your cholesterol levels yet your cholesterol levels are constantly changing based on what you eat? I’ve heard this thousands of times but on a carnivore diet my LDL is sometimes high and sometimes it’s normal. I don’t get it and nobody has ever explained it well. I know our bodies make cholesterol and saturated fat matters but that’s about all I know.
Quantify "high" vs "normal" and who is responsible for determining those classifications?
Hi Nick
Just wondering what you eat for your Animal based keto diet .. Great macros
I'd love it if you could cover Georgi Dinkovs thoughts on diet (and subsequently, Ray Peat, as Dinkov's work is largely based on his), and cancer. I know this is a broad subject, but I find all the conflicting information difficult to decypher as I don't have deep biological understand and haven't been able to find a diet which my body responds positively with.
Thanks for posting this. Have you looked at Alpha Lipoic Acid and R-ALA? Interestingly, it's synthesized from C8 MCT and has some interesting (reported) effects. I'm about to begin my own n=1 experiment when my order arrives.
Thank you for your sacrifice, keep the n=1s coming.
Is LDL as required for lipid use from stored body fat vs dietary fat being used directly instead of being stored the same? On a similar diet wouldn't an obese person have higher daily energy requirements and be getting that from body fat whereas a lean person will be getting the majority directly from food, thus higher LDL? Do we see people intentionally trying to gain weight on keto style diets have their LDL go up even more?
What about metabolism and aging? We seem to expect our metaboliam to decrease with age but is that mainly an artifcat of losing muscle mass? If we maintain muscle mass, should we expect to have a level metabolism into old age? What are some other factors driving metabolisim besides mass and activity level?
Nick, this sounds great, but I am not clear on how to get started. My son and I both have autoimmune disorders (my son: ulcerative colitis at age 15, he is now 17 and I have Hashimoto's hypothyroidism). How do we get started? Carnivore, keto? Please help.
Type "how to start keto diet for beginners" into the search bar in youtube. Start with watching videos by:
KenDBerryMD
Dr. Eric Westman
Dr. Sten Ekberg
Dr. Eric Berg DC
Replace "keto diet" with "carnivore diet" and add to the list of channels:
Anthony Chaffee MD
Shawn Baker MD
Nutrition with Judy
Steak and Butter Gal
HomeSteadHow
No Carb Life
Jenny Mitich
Jesse Chappus
Max German
Other search topics:
"bart kay carnivore"
"cywes carnivore"
"carnivore diet mistakes"
"Intermittent fasting"
"carbohydrate addiction"
"sugar addiction"
That's enough to keep you busy for two or three years. "Stay curious." -- Nick Norwitz
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So, is the increase pathological? What if you are lean doing carnivore and have inflammation for other reasons? Like some people have said, LDL is the firewood, so if you have inflammation, there's going to be a big fire.
I'm not sure that's an entirely fair analogy. Nevertheless, the risk of being an LMHR is current unknown. These are the only risk data available so far: www.jacc.org/doi/10.1016/j.jacadv.2024.101109
I sure would like to figure out why my LDL-C is so high on low carb. I've lost 70 lbs so far, but still have an LDL-C over 200. I have a zero CAC score. I'm currently in the 27 bmi range down from 40. Would love to know what I can do further to help lower my LDL-C...if necessary.
And what happens to LDL when the vegan diet isn't keto?
The carbs … pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38276308/
Wonder if you dropped calories, but did it on a high carb diet.
Like an Oreos vs statin again, but hypocaloric while being high carb and low fat (macro-wise).
Probably LDL would drop if higher carb
I find it odd that a vegan diet raises LDL but oreos bring it down. They're both high in carbs.
He was on a keto vegan diet.
I feel like you didn't watch this video...
Of course I watched the video! That's exactly why I commented. Obviously, I didn't pick up on a key point.
Loved your vid! I am vegan because purely because I don’t want animals to get hurt. My ldl is higher, same as my non vegan siblings. I would love to see you doing a vegan experiment and getting your ldl low at the same time.
Exactly as u predicted!
Yep... funny how that happens again and again...
Exactly what is expected. The rise in LDL cholesterol is meant to heal the horrible vegan diet introduced into your body system.
Ugh... not exactly.