We are too good at making weapons so we try and give the rest of the world a chance... For example: - The computer - a few guys and some old post office junk - Longbow - bit of wood and sinewy cow gut - Tank - any old iron? - Bouncing bomb - marbles, a water tank and Admiral Nelson's battle logs... - Harrier Jump Jet - a bedstead :)
@@AsbestosMuffins ENIAC came three-ish years after Colossus, a WW2 codebreaking computer built by the British Post Office Research Station (and then kept secret for decades, which is why many people don't know about it).
@@AsbestosMuffins if only Hitler had known his ultimate nemesis was a post office engineer called Tommy Flowers who paid to build the machine out of his own pocket. "Flowers later described a crucial meeting between Dwight D. Eisenhower and his staff on 5 June, during which a courier entered and handed Eisenhower a note summarising a Colossus decrypt. This confirmed that Adolf Hitler wanted no additional troops moved to Normandy, as he was still convinced that the preparations for the Normandy landings were a feint. Handing back the decrypt, Eisenhower announced to his staff, "We go tomorrow"."
Indeed, and given the grave finacial straits the UK was in after WWII I guess any cost saving measure was acceptable and it also saved on valuble metals. Does anyone now if the MP40 magazines were more reliable than Sten mags, as that too could have been a factor.
And there was an arms manufacturing capability. Easier to ship a design over and make it there, then supply it from the stockpiles of MP40 mags and 9mm ammo. (Despite all the bombing Germany was still producing arms and munitions till the end.)
Fritz: “Hey Bob, I’ve got this warehouse full of MP40 magazines, any chance you can make your new gun use them? I’ll cut you in for half, usual account?”.
I'll go back to watch videos I like and then realize they were posted four, five, or six years ago. I had no idea a channel like this could run so long
There was a Chuck Norris film with a similar sling - Invasion USA. He dual-wielded Micro-Uzis. One of those films where the basic concept was better than the film. I think it was a Cannon production.
That is the sole reason i bought the ww1 call of duty game. Sadly so much of the stuff even if ya unlock access use of them, ya only get to use online. But does help show the marketable opertunities for weird and old. And hopefully gets more folk interested. Battelfeild1 as an honerable mention, less forgotten stuff but theres certianly stuff there
Well, the Viper No. 1 at least appears in Hot Dogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades, as do many other strange and obscure weapons alongside the more common and expected options. Hell, even the keeper of firearms at the Royal Armouries himself has reviewed at least some of the firearms are portrayed in H3VR.
I kinda like this "spray in a general direction" concept. Even more when they add sights! It displays such an inspiring self-confidence for something that never became popular Like me Without the self confidence
I have a confession. I like to watch/listen to your videos as I am falling asleep. Your voice is so calming and technical stuff helps me keep my mind busy from messed up things I saw during my service. Thank you
MP40 mags were extremely common across mainland Europe, especially in British Occupied West Germany. But the Belgian Vigneron was also designed to use MP40 mags, however, they did also manufacture Vigneron specific mags, which are identical in looks and design, but are made not to work in MP40 SMG's without some rather careful modifications first, but MP40 mags will work without modification in the Vigneron SMG. So, yeah, I just thought to mention that, as I am sure it slipped Ian's mind at the time. Because that is the gun that comes to mind when I think of MP40 mag inter-usage designed SMG's, and as that one actually did get adopted and go into production.
@@vattmann1387 Thanks, that's better, nothing wrong with a good bodge if it works. Think about the way the Dambusters got their height right for the "bouncing bombs", or the RN got their torpedoes to run in a shallow, mud bottom harbour (Taranto). Stick the radio in an armoured bustle on the turret back, turn the gun on its side and you can fire it and as important reload it. Pity about the Sherman's high profile and the muzzle flash, but you can't have everything.
Sir the sten guns too bulky! Put the magazine in horizontally Sir! It needs to be used one handed! Integrate the pistol grip with the magazine well Sir! It needs to be cheap enough for the police Full auto only just mow the buggers down!
Thanks Ian I’m in the UK so shooting is a problem due to our gun laws. You make excellent videos that I always enjoy and I must admit I had never heard of this smg/pdw until today. Once covid is dealt with the Royal Armouries at Leeds is on my must visit list. Thanks again sir Cheers 👍
@@InternetEntity I actually used to live in leeds and hated it but love the royal armouries. If I ever go im straight there and out the city after im done
@@RoyRogerer It worked, it was there in numbers when needed. And it was as cheap as chips to produce, what more do you want in time of need? Incidentally, I mentioned elsewhere that given the chance folk would customise their Stens by sorting some of the grosser problems.
@@TheArgieH yeah for sure. I was just joking. Sten is one of my favorite smg, especially the early ones, not because I know how well they worked, but because they look so awesome hehe
Starting with a Sten and then making it into something that looks even more awkward to use deserves some kind of medal. Preferably one that smells faintly of poo, but still.
The Australian designers were so horrified at the STEN data pack that they insisted on making it better, totally forgetting it was meant to be really cheap.
Mp40 mags are vertical feed where as sten mags are horizontal feed. I imagine that therefore the stem mags springs mag not be man enough for a vertical feed design.
Don't knock the effectiveness of a British gun manufacturer in a shed. Look at accuracy international with the L96 sniper rifle. Ian did a very informative video about it
I lived in Berlin for 5 years...the French zone was above the British, and the Americans were in the southern part of West-Berlin. So if there were logistical problems the French and British could move ammo between each other in this case. Ian go to Berlin when you have a chance! You still see the scars of war, but only in a handful of places. Keep it up! I live in Germany, so seeing this helps cope with homesickness
They would have had huge numbers of MP40 mags left over after the war and they were probably rather better made than the STEN mags, hence more reliable.
Later Sten versions were planned to be able to use MP40 magazines, this one was literally designed with an MP40 mag. That was just the thought - for people to use it among german equipment.
Just rewatched the MkI video, and I THINK I've come up with a reasonable explanation for the "gotta be one-handed!" thing: control a suspect with one hand, keep his partners from rescuing him with a Viper in the other. Given the context, I'm SURE there was worry at all levels of command about Nazi holdouts making lethal mischief in squad-sized units. I have NO idea what Royal Army Military Police doctrine was like, but patrols by pairs in "quiet" sectors doesn't seem unreasonable; the last thing you'd want in those circumstances is for a patrol to actually stumble across a couple of SS men cutting the wire around the back of your armo(u)ry and say "You're nicked, chum!" only to discover that their 11 buddies were watching from the treeline when their only firepower is a No.4 or a Webley. A Sten would obviously be the best case in that situation, but you're not shooting one of THOSE one-handed with much chance of success any more than you're knocking someone unconscious with it. Dead or escaped prisoners don't yield much intelligence value, and dead Tommies yield even less, so why not try to achieve both ends at the same time? Such, at least, COULD have been the reasoning at the time, though the benefit of 20/20 hindsight demonstrates pretty conclusively that Nazi partisans were not something necessary to be concerned with. Edit: Oh, yeah, not only do I agree with the "Meant for Germany, use local German magazines" crowd, I ALSO think, based on Ian's comments, that the designers may have chosen the MP-40 mags BECAUSE they were dimensionally smaller than Sten mags. Given the mag-as-grip-component design, it may have been a Brit who coined that well-known phrase, "This one fits my HAND better than this one does..."
I was wondering why it was designed for one handed use. I found out that it was originally conceived as a personal defence weapon for motorcycle despatch riders.
I'd love to see all these amazing forgotten weapons fire tested it'd help with recreating these both irl and in games. May these amazing artifacts rest in peace.
I'm surprised they went through all that trouble to design a different bolt so they could have a magazine going through the grip and an appropriate ejection window, but didn't opt for a telescoping bolt at that point in time. Maybe they used the MP 40 bolt as the base for their bolt design?
perhaps the reason it uses mp40 magazines was because there would have been a lot of captured german stockpiles containing an abundance of mp40 magazines close at hand to where the guns would be issued and used so they decided they may as well make use of them
Already beaten to it, but an uneducated guess would be that there were massive surplus of MP-40 mags as well as Sten. If British troops were stationed in West Germany, then it would make at least some sense for them to use the MP-40 mags. Already there, already produced, may as well use them.
Not sure if the British occupational troops were veterans of the previous fighting throughout Europe but if they were, I’m sure they had acquired a lot of practice instinctively aiming by then.
In the first years of the peace, they were in the main. Though over 1945-1947 they were cycled out for demob. Some experienced troops will have remained in service for many years after that.
This seems like something the enemy henchmen would use in a James Bond movie or a Tintin comic or something, just sprayin' and prayin'. I actually love this design, it's kinda pretty in weird way. Wish we could see one firing!
I recall one of the curators at the Royal Armories in the Hotdogs Horseshoes and Hand Grenades video he did with Gamespot saying that the Viper was also intended for Commando usage due to its ability to be fired from under the shoulder one handed. I guess its insanely short length in CQB would be useful and so would the ability to carry gear whilst also being able to lay fire (albeit just randomly in the general direction of an enemy).
The last time I heard Jonathan Ferguson discuss the Viper series (I think it was for a video on the guns of Hot Dogs, Horseshoes, and Hand Grenades?), I thought he mentioned something about the intended role being for amphibious assaults, where one hand might need to be pulling a boat up the beach or something. I could be misremembering that, though. EtA: I went to look it up, and it's from the Gamespot series of "A Firearms Expert Reacts," and all he says about it is that it was designed for commandos assaulting over a beach.
Couple of ergonomic points: That pistol grip looks like it's at a reasonable angle, until you realise the magazine goes into it vertically, meaning the width of the grip is wider than it needs to be. At the base, it's about half as wide again as the MP40 magazine. The only reason I can think of is it effectively becomes a flared mag-well. And behind the grip, the body of the receiver seems to be much deeper than needed for several inches. Yes, the tube of the butt needs an internal tube to slot into, but the area forward of that tube is as long again, and clearly can't be used to telescope the butt given the butt is canted downwards aft of the back of the receiver, plus that area is visibly a bit narrower. I wonder if the intent was the support hand gripped the receiver underside, given there is a sloped surface there, but it's a bit tight to the forward grip if it is. But the more I look at it, the more I wonder if the intention might have been to fire it P90 style, with a double-handed grip around the pistol grip and trigger guard (which would explain the necessity for the barrel shroud.
In regard to the ejection port cover, the Sten may have had a history of icing up when being carried outside for long periods during winter. If any submachine gun was going to ice up, it would be that piece of junk. I suspect that the varying ‘range’ positions on the backsight were actually intended to allow zeroing, at a realistic range, by soldiers of different heights. If the idiots on high tell you not to make equipment adjustable to the individual user (and it needs to be) you find another way. I have had this suspicion about range adjustments on submachine guns for some time.
finally a firearm made with a length of pull comfortable for me, i'm long and lanky that front sight post seems super nice as well, i have a similar post on my favorite air rifle
Hi Ian, next time you're in England, be sure to visit The Combined Services Museum, Maldon, Essex. They have a large collection of rare firearms. Cheers.
![[ TEASER ] เงาะป่า - วงL.กฮ. | TMG RECORD](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M4ObdFfcPww/mqdefault.jpg)
"Yo Britain, we won the war, you don't need to make emergency weapons from junk anymore"
"I know, but I'm kind of addicted to it...."
We are too good at making weapons so we try and give the rest of the world a chance...
For example:
- The computer - a few guys and some old post office junk
- Longbow - bit of wood and sinewy cow gut
- Tank - any old iron?
- Bouncing bomb - marbles, a water tank and Admiral Nelson's battle logs...
- Harrier Jump Jet - a bedstead :)
This thread is amazing.
@@nonomnismoriar9601 the ENIAC would like to beep angrily at you
@@AsbestosMuffins ENIAC came three-ish years after Colossus, a WW2 codebreaking computer built by the British Post Office Research Station (and then kept secret for decades, which is why many people don't know about it).
@@AsbestosMuffins if only Hitler had known his ultimate nemesis was a post office engineer called Tommy Flowers who paid to build the machine out of his own pocket.
"Flowers later described a crucial meeting between Dwight D. Eisenhower and his staff on 5 June, during which a courier entered and handed Eisenhower a note summarising a Colossus decrypt.
This confirmed that Adolf Hitler wanted no additional troops moved to Normandy, as he was still convinced that the preparations for the Normandy landings were a feint.
Handing back the decrypt, Eisenhower announced to his staff, "We go tomorrow"."
MP-40 mags because gun was gonna be used in West-Germany i would assume Plenty of mags were in stockpiles back then.
Indeed, and given the grave finacial straits the UK was in after WWII I guess any cost saving measure was acceptable and it also saved on valuble metals.
Does anyone now if the MP40 magazines were more reliable than Sten mags, as that too could have been a factor.
Yeah, I was going to say the same thing.
@keith moore Thanks for the info :)
And there was an arms manufacturing capability. Easier to ship a design over and make it there, then supply it from the stockpiles of MP40 mags and 9mm ammo. (Despite all the bombing Germany was still producing arms and munitions till the end.)
@keith moore But used in occupied Germany, right? Surely there would be lots of MP40 mags around at the time?
"Suspect and bystanders all dead, sir."
"Moderate property damage to the surrounding buildings, too."
@@lairdcummings9092 "Sir, I'm told that was there when we arrived. A legacy of the late war, sir."
"Yes, thank you Sergeant."
😂
"In a self defense situation...It didn't have to be this way..."
Very good, Sergeant, carry on.
"Wave a truncheon or something with your other hand".
Excuse me Ian, that free hand is free to use another Viper No.3!
Dual wielding baby!
Muv Luv style
Or to make rude gestures!
Or rude gestures with anotherViper!
Actually old chap it frees up a hand for lighting ones pipe
With a viper.
Fritz: “Hey Bob, I’ve got this warehouse full of MP40 magazines, any chance you can make your new gun use them? I’ll cut you in for half, usual account?”.
Seems legit
I wonder if they thought "it's for police in Germany, so they probably have a lot of MP40 mags there."
@@T33K3SS3LCH3N that's what I was thinking. Maybe the logic was to design it for where it would be used
And while you're there, make sure to use as little tube for barrel as possible, that thing is expensive. Make something completly miniscule and short!
@@T33K3SS3LCH3N Lots of mag pouches too.
Who'd have thought there could be so many forgotten weapons! 😳
Yessir
Ian- One Mckenobi= Thats...why i am here
That's the military industrial complex for you. Fire arms designers and manufacturers will never ever be out of a job.
I'll go back to watch videos I like and then realize they were posted four, five, or six years ago. I had no idea a channel like this could run so long
And we haven’t even gotten into Russian arms, or very much in Asia!
"You can carry it rather like... this" *barrel points straight at his crotch* - Yeah, maybe I'll skip that one.
Given the sten guns rep for slam fireing too.
There was a Chuck Norris film with a similar sling - Invasion USA. He dual-wielded Micro-Uzis. One of those films where the basic concept was better than the film. I think it was a Cannon production.
Never put a gun in your front waistband? You never lived fully.
sounds good if you don't wanna have kids
The thing looks like it should be a bullpup, but it clearly isn't.
It's a "Fauxpup"... I'm so sorry i'll see myself out
This is much more like the Israeli Uzi or American Ingrams. A half way house aiming to put the magazine in the users hand.
It’s undecided.
@@dysjectamembra5322 That "wasted space" is for bolt to move backwards, deaccelerate, catch a sear and be ready to fired again
I think it is a bullpup.
"wave a truncheon..." is that what we're calling that gesture now?
When I was 15, i used to wave a truncheon 4 or 5 times a day.
I came (heh) to make this joke but I am thankful someone already did the honors.
@@fancyultrafresh3264 same
"slightly optimistic 300 yard aperture" actually made me laugh out loud
English understatement right there. For an American translation read "F-ing hopeless"
Wouldn't it be 300 meters since it's british?
@@d-drizzle Not at that point. We shifted to metric in 1970.
@@truckerallikatuk really I didn't know that.. thanks for the information
@@peterclarke7240 You mean like us Americans.
Ahh well I can see we are wreaking havoc on the rest of the world.
Viper the SMG: "You'll Cowards Don't Even Have Sights"
underrated coment
Y'all Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack With One Hand While Shooting A Vintage Machine-Gun With The Other
@@vanboy5697 no no, "you'll."
You know your in a rough neighborhood when the cops are packing SMGs.
London Heathrow? Or that flashpoint....Venice?
Some firearms have an elegant appearance, a design that makes them as much a work of art as a functional gun. This... is not one of those.
I would have to agree, lol.
I concur
That’s funny right there.
The forbidden uzi
But...it has wood paneling...
that sound while unscrewing the barrel shroud... cries for some lubrication.. just like so many valentine dates ..
I was thinking drop it in a vat of Marvel Mystery Oil. A couple hours of that and everything should come loose.
@@shawnr771 the gun or the date?
@@happyundertaker6255 I'll take this as my blame card when I get to Hell.
"Forgotten Weapons": For some weapons there's an implied "Deservedly" in the title.
"Remember that heap of shit we forgot ? "
"No"
"Good".
Some of them are pretty popular, just not suitable for import in America because protectionism
@@teslashark A bit like owning an ugly Dog maybe ? :)
@@cabinfever7262 American puppy mills haven't lobbied to ban this many breeds
@@cabinfever7262 at least even an ugly dog does it's job as long as you train it.
"For one handed use against fleeing suspects".......... A gun designed specifically for when you just can't be arsed to put your cup of tea down.
I want more of these weird guns in games, since we will probably never get to fire them.
That is the sole reason i bought the ww1 call of duty game. Sadly so much of the stuff even if ya unlock access use of them, ya only get to use online. But does help show the marketable opertunities for weird and old. And hopefully gets more folk interested.
Battelfeild1 as an honerable mention, less forgotten stuff but theres certianly stuff there
Well, the Viper No. 1 at least appears in Hot Dogs, Horseshoes and Hand Grenades, as do many other strange and obscure weapons alongside the more common and expected options. Hell, even the keeper of firearms at the Royal Armouries himself has reviewed at least some of the firearms are portrayed in H3VR.
"One handed weapons suit me very much, they leave a free hand for rude gestures."
-Inigo, apparently head engineer for the Viper project.
suçlulara müdahale edilirken ABD'de olduğu birinci öncelik ateş etmek değil. Dayak yemeye direnirse suçluyu vurmak için geliştirilmiş.
I kinda like this "spray in a general direction" concept. Even more when they add sights! It displays such an inspiring self-confidence for something that never became popular
Like me
Without the self confidence
What you need is some wooden panels. Then you too could be repeatedly rejected in style!
@@alltat wood is beautiful though
"Mom, can we have UZI?"
"No, we have UZI at home."
UZI at home:
Hahahaha!
lol
that's funny !
Hilarious and original.
I have a confession. I like to watch/listen to your videos as I am falling asleep. Your voice is so calming and technical stuff helps me keep my mind busy from messed up things I saw during my service. Thank you
MP40 mags were extremely common across mainland Europe, especially in British Occupied West Germany. But the Belgian Vigneron was also designed to use MP40 mags, however, they did also manufacture Vigneron specific mags, which are identical in looks and design, but are made not to work in MP40 SMG's without some rather careful modifications first, but MP40 mags will work without modification in the Vigneron SMG. So, yeah, I just thought to mention that, as I am sure it slipped Ian's mind at the time. Because that is the gun that comes to mind when I think of MP40 mag inter-usage designed SMG's, and as that one actually did get adopted and go into production.
This is the most British-looking gun I've ever seen
Just missing yellow teeth and a tea maker.
@@flgators1986 tea maker? 😂🤦🏻♂️
Webley Revolver, Sten SMG, and Enfield Rifle: *Are we jokes to you?*
@@Anino_Makata L85A1: Tries to look small and unimportant
@@flgators1986 Yellow teeth are healthy teeth, they also happen to be real teeth. Gold caps/crowns excepted.
"Sir, the 17 pounder won't fit!" - "Put it in sideways."
Glad to see the British botch culture continued even after the war.
Nothing botched about the 17 pounder. Why do you think the Wermacht tankers targeted Fireflies first.
now, time to put a 17 pounder in a SMG. maybe market it towards giants?
@@TheArgieH I think they meant "bodge culture" :)
@@vattmann1387 Thanks, that's better, nothing wrong with a good bodge if it works. Think about the way the Dambusters got their height right for the "bouncing bombs", or the RN got their torpedoes to run in a shallow, mud bottom harbour (Taranto). Stick the radio in an armoured bustle on the turret back, turn the gun on its side and you can fire it and as important reload it. Pity about the Sherman's high profile and the muzzle flash, but you can't have everything.
Sir the sten guns too bulky!
Put the magazine in horizontally
Sir! It needs to be used one handed!
Integrate the pistol grip with the magazine well
Sir! It needs to be cheap enough for the police
Full auto only just mow the buggers down!
Thanks Ian I’m in the UK so shooting is a problem due to our gun laws.
You make excellent videos that I always enjoy and I must admit I had never heard of this smg/pdw until today.
Once covid is dealt with the Royal Armouries at Leeds is on my must visit list.
Thanks again sir
Cheers 👍
The museum is also free to enter as well I believe. Well worth a look round if you’re visiting Leeds.
Very nice "truncheon waving" technique there, Ian, very nice. Keep up the cracking work, love the channel.
That's how I use mine
Royal Armouries is amazing. If it was in London people would rave about the plce, but its worth going to Leeds just to see it.
I live here and can confirm, Leeds is nothing special.
Least it's in Yorkshire!
@@InternetEntity On the plus side Leeds will always be a winner in the 'at least it not Rochdale' competition!
@@InternetEntity I actually used to live in leeds and hated it but love the royal armouries. If I ever go im straight there and out the city after im done
its like the sten engineers said " I think we can go dumber "
you need dumber if meat heads are going to carry it .
excuse me, nothing dumb about sten.... ah well, who am i kidding...
@@RoyRogerer It worked, it was there in numbers when needed. And it was as cheap as chips to produce, what more do you want in time of need? Incidentally, I mentioned elsewhere that given the chance folk would customise their Stens by sorting some of the grosser problems.
Sten mk.5 is actually a decent SMG
@@TheArgieH yeah for sure. I was just joking. Sten is one of my favorite smg, especially the early ones, not because I know how well they worked, but because they look so awesome hehe
Starting with a Sten and then making it into something that looks even more awkward to use deserves some kind of medal. Preferably one that smells faintly of poo, but still.
The Australian designers were so horrified at the STEN data pack that they insisted on making it better, totally forgetting it was meant to be really cheap.
When the Villain goes over the budget for the volcano lair, and has to make cutbacks for the henchmen.....😬
Mp40 mags are vertical feed where as sten mags are horizontal feed. I imagine that therefore the stem mags springs mag not be man enough for a vertical feed design.
300 yrds. Very optimistic. This thing looks like it was knocked together in some guy's garage.
Don't knock the effectiveness of a British gun manufacturer in a shed. Look at accuracy international with the L96 sniper rifle. Ian did a very informative video about it
"Knocked together in a shed" is the British equivalent of "Lockheed Skunk works developed it"
@@ianmills9266 You beat me by 15 minutes. I was just about to say the same. Nice one! Have a great 2021
Just like the sten xD
"looks like"... Yes.
“Sten magazines tripping over Sten mags in corners...”
Man what I wouldn’t give to go to one of GJ’s Forgotten Weapons house parties..
i preffered when it was called "the pattern room" sound more british and mysterious
wow greatest collab Royal's Armoury and Gun Jesus!
Maybe the reliability of Sten mags in vertical vs horizontal orientation prompted the use of MP40 mags
The most funky steam punk machine gun I have ever seen
I'm waving my truncheon to this video. Great work Ian.
Wasn't the reason the British didn't consider Sten mags, was because they were the weak point of the Sten, causing feeding issues and jams?
I would of thought the spring would be weaker than needed for a vertical feed mag
And the designers were sane. Funny that.
As far as I know the MP40 has the same inherent issue of the sten mag, aka going from double stack to single feed
@@lucajohnen6719 Britain really figured it out with the sterling mags though. Damn fine piece of engineering.
@@Aliyah_666 the Sterling is the single most, non-mp5 sexiest SMG hands down
intended to use in vehicles. Due to the various treaties and rules with Ivan, a lot of military work was done undercover in civilian vehicles
Especially handy for riding a bike (motorized or not)
If you mean BRIXMIS, the aggrement was they were never armed from day one.
I never thought I'd see a Viper again, let alone another version of it.
It makes one yearn to see what the Mk 2 looked like, a chrome finish sten maybe?
I think this was for use on Military Police motorcycle guards, one handed use would be and advantage , probably more stable than a Webley pistol too
That, plus a quick burst from a submachine gun while on a motorcycle is more likely to hit home than a couple of shots from a revolver.
The rear sight is 100, 200 and 300 yard adjustments? Looks more like 1, 2 and 3 yards. After that is bonus points.
I lived in Berlin for 5 years...the French zone was above the British, and the Americans were in the southern part of West-Berlin. So if there were logistical problems the French and British could move ammo between each other in this case. Ian go to Berlin when you have a chance! You still see the scars of war, but only in a handful of places. Keep it up! I live in Germany, so seeing this helps cope with homesickness
Gaaah, that ratcheting sound when unscrewing the barrel has me twitching to do pushups for not holding down the pin!
Damn...and I thought my Valentines Date was ugly.
I'm sure your right hand isn't that ugly.
Is that what she said? 😀
Every time I see Royal Armouries I wonder where Johnathan Ferguson is during the filming
They would have had huge numbers of MP40 mags left over after the war and they were probably rather better made than the STEN mags, hence more reliable.
1:30
Shooting the suspect AND giving him a hand gesture?
That's just overkill
and in the other hand, a nice cup of tea (with saucer, and biscuit)
This thing makes some of the abominations on Brandon Herrera ' s cursed gun images look good.
The Sterling SMG was in production by then and yet somebody still had to design something like this. . . . .
Sterling was too 'spensive for cratered post-war British economy
Later Sten versions were planned to be able to use MP40 magazines, this one was literally designed with an MP40 mag. That was just the thought - for people to use it among german equipment.
So since Ian is at the Royal Armouries, can we expect to see an appearance by Jonathan Ferguson anytime soon?
Just rewatched the MkI video, and I THINK I've come up with a reasonable explanation for the "gotta be one-handed!" thing: control a suspect with one hand, keep his partners from rescuing him with a Viper in the other.
Given the context, I'm SURE there was worry at all levels of command about Nazi holdouts making lethal mischief in squad-sized units. I have NO idea what Royal Army Military Police doctrine was like, but patrols by pairs in "quiet" sectors doesn't seem unreasonable; the last thing you'd want in those circumstances is for a patrol to actually stumble across a couple of SS men cutting the wire around the back of your armo(u)ry and say "You're nicked, chum!" only to discover that their 11 buddies were watching from the treeline when their only firepower is a No.4 or a Webley. A Sten would obviously be the best case in that situation, but you're not shooting one of THOSE one-handed with much chance of success any more than you're knocking someone unconscious with it. Dead or escaped prisoners don't yield much intelligence value, and dead Tommies yield even less, so why not try to achieve both ends at the same time?
Such, at least, COULD have been the reasoning at the time, though the benefit of 20/20 hindsight demonstrates pretty conclusively that Nazi partisans were not something necessary to be concerned with.
Edit: Oh, yeah, not only do I agree with the "Meant for Germany, use local German magazines" crowd, I ALSO think, based on Ian's comments, that the designers may have chosen the MP-40 mags BECAUSE they were dimensionally smaller than Sten mags. Given the mag-as-grip-component design, it may have been a Brit who coined that well-known phrase, "This one fits my HAND better than this one does..."
1:32... I'm not sure one should be "waving" one's "truncheon" in that manner when out and about...🤣
But you can wave your full auto with one hand!
Weird but cool ... yip, yet another Forgotten Weapon I like - thx for sharing Ian!!
Someone saw the photo of Churchill with a Thompson and thought _No, no, no! An American gun? This won't do at all, chaps_
Give him a Lanchester...
I was wondering why it was designed for one handed use. I found out that it was originally conceived as a personal defence weapon for motorcycle despatch riders.
"So, what are we building today?"
"Yes."
Probable discussion in the factory (someone's garden shed)
I'd love to see all these amazing forgotten weapons fire tested it'd help with recreating these both irl and in games. May these amazing artifacts rest in peace.
I'm surprised they went through all that trouble to design a different bolt so they could have a magazine going through the grip and an appropriate ejection window, but didn't opt for a telescoping bolt at that point in time. Maybe they used the MP 40 bolt as the base for their bolt design?
So the "shoulder" stock is actually a brace like we have nowadays on some pistols :) Woodwork was excellent.
perhaps the reason it uses mp40 magazines was because there would have been a lot of captured german stockpiles containing an abundance of mp40 magazines close at hand to where the guns would be issued and used so they decided they may as well make use of them
“Idk you could wave a truncheon or something with your other hand” never change ian, never change
Whew! I love me an SMLE, but I was starting to feel SMLE burnout after so many variations in such a short period of time.
never. I imagine you hated the mo th of bergmans too.
@@wierdalien1 same for the berthier biennium
Already beaten to it, but an uneducated guess would be that there were massive surplus of MP-40 mags as well as Sten. If British troops were stationed in West Germany, then it would make at least some sense for them to use the MP-40 mags. Already there, already produced, may as well use them.
Especially if it would support the local economy by being sub contracted to West German firms.
Not sure if the British occupational troops were veterans of the previous fighting throughout Europe but if they were, I’m sure they had acquired a lot of practice instinctively aiming by then.
In the first years of the peace, they were in the main. Though over 1945-1947 they were cycled out for demob. Some experienced troops will have remained in service for many years after that.
Thank you , Ian .
would this be considered a bullpup since the magazine is part of the grip, technically behind the trigger?
Most semiauto pistols would count, then
No
This seems like something the enemy henchmen would use in a James Bond movie or a Tintin comic or something, just sprayin' and prayin'. I actually love this design, it's kinda pretty in weird way. Wish we could see one firing!
My guess is that as it was meant for occupied West Germany, they had a stock of MP40 magazines on hand somwhere.
I still find it hilarious that it took until Mk. 3 to think 'Y'know, maybe a sight would be alright'.
-I say chaps, you see this c96 inside its shoulder stock holster?
-We do indeed sir.
-WELL MAKE IT BLOODY WELL SHOOT THAT WAY
The first Viper
I recall one of the curators at the Royal Armories in the Hotdogs Horseshoes and Hand Grenades video he did with Gamespot saying that the Viper was also intended for Commando usage due to its ability to be fired from under the shoulder one handed. I guess its insanely short length in CQB would be useful and so would the ability to carry gear whilst also being able to lay fire (albeit just randomly in the general direction of an enemy).
This thing looks utterly ridiculous and yet oddly interesting...
1.32 That gesture means something else here in England :)
What fresh hell is this
1:32 Cracked me up so hard. I can imagine someone waving a truncheon while spraying at an armed suspect.
Makes the viper one seem reasonable
Ehhhhh... I have to say, it's at least fabrication-wise much better than the Mk I's wooden clamshell deal
The last time I heard Jonathan Ferguson discuss the Viper series (I think it was for a video on the guns of Hot Dogs, Horseshoes, and Hand Grenades?), I thought he mentioned something about the intended role being for amphibious assaults, where one hand might need to be pulling a boat up the beach or something. I could be misremembering that, though.
EtA: I went to look it up, and it's from the Gamespot series of "A Firearms Expert Reacts," and all he says about it is that it was designed for commandos assaulting over a beach.
I’m guessing since these guns were meant for Germany, the British just wanted to recycle old magazines instead of making new ones.
Assumption that they could have used the Sten Mags for the Viper Mk.3 which were already made and production en masse.
@@panzermadchen651 the sten mags might have had feeding issues if used vertically.
New SMG video from Ian! Great way to start the week!
Man. Imagine showing up with this thing in Berlin and seeing the Soviets/East Germans lug around SKS and AK47's. Bummer..
The Soviets didn’t start showing off the AK publicly until Hungary 1956
The front sight maker "it needs to be pointy!"
these “hang it on your arm” smgs seem like such a poor idea
Like the P90?
@i camouf all on ya exactly my point.
Couple of ergonomic points:
That pistol grip looks like it's at a reasonable angle, until you realise the magazine goes into it vertically, meaning the width of the grip is wider than it needs to be. At the base, it's about half as wide again as the MP40 magazine. The only reason I can think of is it effectively becomes a flared mag-well.
And behind the grip, the body of the receiver seems to be much deeper than needed for several inches. Yes, the tube of the butt needs an internal tube to slot into, but the area forward of that tube is as long again, and clearly can't be used to telescope the butt given the butt is canted downwards aft of the back of the receiver, plus that area is visibly a bit narrower. I wonder if the intent was the support hand gripped the receiver underside, given there is a sloped surface there, but it's a bit tight to the forward grip if it is.
But the more I look at it, the more I wonder if the intention might have been to fire it P90 style, with a double-handed grip around the pistol grip and trigger guard (which would explain the necessity for the barrel shroud.
That looks uncomfortable...
It's British. 😊
It's British. 😊
In regard to the ejection port cover, the Sten may have had a history of icing up when being carried outside for long periods during winter. If any submachine gun was going to ice up, it would be that piece of junk.
I suspect that the varying ‘range’ positions on the backsight were actually intended to allow zeroing, at a realistic range, by soldiers of different heights. If the idiots on high tell you not to make equipment adjustable to the individual user (and it needs to be) you find another way. I have had this suspicion about range adjustments on submachine guns for some time.
Early cause my truck won't start
I love the Nambu style on that
it look like a long tail Uzi
finally a firearm made with a length of pull comfortable for me, i'm long and lanky
that front sight post seems super nice as well, i have a similar post on my favorite air rifle
Its not for shooting fleeing suspects, its for spraying down crowds of Germans from the hip like a badass.
*W* *H* *A* *T* *'* *S* *T* *H* *E*
*D* *I* *F* *F* *E* *R* *E* *N* *C* *E* *?*
@@sumvs5992 You gave the one chance to flee, failing in your duty.
Although, if they're not running, it can't be considered sport.
@@JunkMan13013 we gave them a chance to flee from the 6th of July 1944 to April 1945. If they still approach you, they want to die
Hi Ian, next time you're in England, be sure to visit The Combined Services Museum, Maldon, Essex. They have a large collection of rare firearms. Cheers.
This puppy is so ugly Yan wears gloves when handling it haha
I only just watched firearms expert reacts to h3vr guns and thud was in it. He's the guy from royal armouries Jonathan ferguson I think
Beautiful, and, super cool. Thanks so much!
Sten, but weirder. Love it!
Maybe for housewife use !!???🤔 maid !!!??🙄 or kindergarten !!!???😱