the slow burn of eventually reaching 3 hours. I have listened to podcasts that started with 90 minute episodes that slowly over time ballooned to 4 hours plus and have stayed there for a majority of its runtime to the point that on occasion they make jokes about reaching a "new hour unlock" with their listeners.
I'm currently at the Blizzard discussion about 18 minutes in and I can almost hear TB jumping in with "Welcome to the Geekenders, we SOMETIMES talk about video games..."
And here I am only listening to like a noob while sitting in the lounge watching football with the bleh commentators turned off......This may need to be re-consumed? (I didn't "watch" it the first time).
"Accessible doesn't mean easy" thank you Jesse. I have one arm and the arm I do have has a hand so weak sometimes I can't pick up a milk bottle. I have beaten every Fromsoft Soulsbourne and a few non-Fromsoft ones.
I was about to say. Dodger and Jessop and the strongly opinioned British man that talks eloquently about the intricacies of the gaming industry..... That feels familiar.
Can say that i have already done Josh's homework. FF14 we did an extreme fight with just one healer but that healer was the only sober player in the fight. It was truly a unique experience
i'll never go back to see if theres a response to any comment i leave, but im almost curious what server and fc, because those are 100% my kind of antics lol...
Just found this channel because of Josh. Subscribed immediately, and I want to say, your sound quality is top notch, and the banner at the bottom that shows the current topic is FANTASTIC, and more video podcasts need to do this
Fantastic episode, there's definitely a lot of highlights! Also, at 1:35:40 the game is Subverse - funnily enough people weren't as mad that it had a game inside it, but that the quality of the *scenes* was not as good as what was available on the internet already, considering they raised a crazy amount of money on kickstarter for it.
I think it more about everyone expected not the LEWD cut-scenes after some shitty game-play, but playable intractable scenes as a game. And in Subverse you can't even rotate camera during the scene it's just plays as a video on internet. And the actual game-play was shitty turn based chess. I.e. everyone expected Illusion game, but got a Strip Poker game instead.
I honestly could listen to this man talk all day about any topic, definitely a great guest. Josh's coverage of Baldur's Gate in his Plays channel is still one of my favorites. I can't wait for when he the finishes New Vegas video when he finally gets to talk about it in length. 50:03 This is why I'm glad how P5 changed how the first hour starts compared to P4 and P5. Showing a bit of what the combat is like at the start, starting off at one of the most gorgeous palaces in the game and then ending with a plot twist that makes you want to learn more. The sooner your game manages to show how things will be 30ish hours down the line, the better chance I'll be wanting to stick around to try everything else your game has to offer.
Been watching Jesse and Dodger for over a decade, discovered Josh after the Asmon stuff. This feels like a collab of different generations of Power Rangers. AWESOME. Bet JC and JSH have a LOT to discuss about MMOs!
This was a really fun episode to listen to. I really enjoyed the deep conversations that the tangents took us to. It brought out some great points that I’ve not thought about before. Well done guys!
@@Billybobjoe Totalbiscuit. They were a legendary youtuber that really pioneered PC gaming discussion we have today. He had a podcast with Jesse and Dodger as his co-hosts. In 2017 he lost his battle with cancer and he sadly passed away
I am a game programmer (focused on movement and general gameplay), and here is how I see the importance of a fast-paced introduction. I don't think it is necessary, but what IS necessary is that the tutorial should be as short as possible while explaining the mechanics. But the important bit, right? The tutorial must be a microcosm of the game at large. The pacing, the general gameplay feel, the story-beats sometimes, and more. This is one reason why Fallout New Vegas succeeds so well. The Goodsprings intro sums up the entire game in all the ways. Look around and talk to people for quests, there is the conflict between two factions and you can play them both for extra cash. There is hidden secrets and you can use your tongue and skills to avoid conflict to some extent, but ultimately it comes down to a firefight where you can stack the favours your way!
@@PandaBearWithMic Too be fair, it’s still possible to kill the demon with some luck. But the mindflayer turns on you now so you have to set up the escape while killing him.
@@Kylesico912x Aye I killed him not long ago when starting a char so it is possible, but you kinda need the flayer to survive long enough to tank for you and also not miss many hits so you burst him down in time.
I was so excited to see Josh Strife Hayes as a guest on the Geekenders, what a fantastic episode, just a perfect clash of some of my favorite online content right now.
1:07:53 I love this hammer thing. Sometimes we all just play support or tank or something and just goof around, switch it up to experience something different for a change.
"Good artists copy but great artists steal" is my new favorite quote. As an artist and game developer, it's so incredibly true. And it's a very frustrating reality.
I remember way back when my friend recommended the anime “the 12 kingdoms” and said just get to episode 4 and it’s amazing. I was sitting there watching the first 3 eps complaining about the characters to him the entire time and he just kept smiling. When I got to the very specific part he knew was coming, I said “holy shit this is amazing” and he just smiled even bigger lol
Josh Strife Hayes is most definitely the spiritual successor to Total Biscuit. Nobody can replace TB. He is a legend and will always be a legend. But, Josh has the same decency, discerning eye, suave and charisma and has very successfully filled that void that the whole gamer community felt when John died. John will never be forgotten, and we will always love him. Josh fills the shoes very effectively and I have great respect for him for it. Now just call Crendor and it'll be like the old days!
This is definitely one of the better episodes you guys have put out. As much as a love an hour of goofs from Jesse and Dodger, there is so much excellent conversation in this one about various design elements and how games hook players and expectations... Alongside goofs. Love to see it
i think the biggest feature of FF14 is also its biggest flaw, the fact that is one continuous story means you can't really change or remove old content, and when you start the game you start playing a game with story, writing, animation and mechanics from 10 years ago and as time goes by the story and quality progresses more and more and the initial content starts looking and feeling older and older
I remember trying the free part and bouncing off of it. And it kind of made me feel like I was doing it wrong, because I usually love story-rich games. I think part of it is that the game doesn't explain very much of the lore of what happened prior to the game starting and IIRC it didn't really ground my character in the world very much. And then there's 'chosen one' type stuff which is sort of okay but also in itself not in itself motivation but rather the theme of the content you're going into. It was also the very first FInal Fantasy I played so that may or may not play into it.
This is by far the best episode so far. I learned so much and loved the in-depth discussion. The guest has definitely earned a new subscriber from me. Keep up to good work Jesse and Dodger!
I've watched every episode since the day this podcast started, and honestly this is my favourite episode, Josh really adds a great dynamic to the podcast that harmonises really well with Jesse and Dodger's more chaotic vibes (not saying Josh can't be chaotic, but his more analytical/"essay" way of speaking and his occassional assertiveness really shakes things up in an interesting way), and i know it's a wild idea and it's probably not gonna happen, but i think it'd be really cool if Josh could be a permanent third host, or at least pop up again like the way Crendor does
Was literally on a gravel ride listening to this live yesterday (not to worry, bone conduting headphones, I could still hear the surroundings), but had to see the video version of it too. Such a fantastic episode! Had never had the chance to see any of Josh's content but now I gots to go see all his worst MMO videos. The discussions on this episode were just absolute 🔥 Thanks for yet another spectacular guest! I don't have a reminder in my calendar for any other show, but I HAVE to catch Geekenders live on Friday. It's a must. Also a must? Rewatch on Saturday morning.
Damn I just love Josh's gamer humor that he just throws in everywhere like it's a serious conversation. :P Also, I was only just alerted to this podcast existing. I guess I have a lot of catching up to do now. ^^;;
I actually played Skyrim as a "Son of Skyrim". A Nord heavy armor, two handed hammer wielding boy, who never looted any of the buried corpses when he went into the dungeons (disturbing the dead is taboo to the Nord), and he always started every fight by shouting FUS! to get the attention of every nearby enemy (Because he fought his foes honorably, declaring his presence for battle!). It actually was fantastic fun. I would go into a dungeon, shout FUS! and it would agro like the first 2 rooms or so of badguys. I'd have a big frantic melee/magic battle with them, they'd die, and then I'd move further down and repeat. It made dungeon crawls take like 10-15 minutes tops, compared to like 2 hours as a stealth archer. Every time he would kill a dragon and take it's soul, he would shout the full FUS ROH DAH!! into the sky, declaring his victorious battle. I also played a healer pacifist priest, who only used healing and buffing spells, and had a warrior companion to fight by my side. That one was fun too.
@@KerzacTransformed It was, I specifically wanted to play something that was the opposite of a stealth archer. The moment the build clicked for me was when I was doing one of the earliest dungeons, and did the whole "come at me bro!" approach to combat, and finished the dungeon in no time. I'd played enough times to remember how long that place usually took me and I was like "...wait did that seriously just take 10 minutes?!?!" 🤣
Jesse, Dodger and an educated, well spoken Brit with a fantastic voice and elocution as well as a critical view of the video game industry... Judging from the comments, I'm not alone in my nostalgia! Also, had no idea who Josh was before this episode, but I'm absolutely going to check out his content after this!
The best establishing moment in gaming comes from Disco Elysium, I think. That game will take approximately 2.5 seconds from pressing the Start Game button to tell you exactly what it’s about.
Doom 2016 should also get a mention. It takes, what, ten seconds from hitting "Start" to you stoving a Demon's skull in, picking up a pistol and going ham on everything that moves for the next 8 hours xD
@ninjabreadman1993r At the start of that game, Samuel Hayden literally tries to give you an opening monologue to establish the plot and the doom slayer throws the computer monitor at the wall, runs off and starts killing things.
I would argue that Everquest was already trying to streamline its gameplay loop long before WoW appeared. First it was in establishing a (relatively) fast way to getting to other lands, and creating a central hub for every player in the Planes of Power expansion. Players no longer had to use the very long ship voyages, after running the length of multiple zones (pulling mobs along with them as they went). They were no longer isolated from each other in whichever major city their race was centralized in. This increased the chances of getting into parties to level, or very rarely quest. The PoP also tried to encourage players to push into the underutilized zones without as much fear of dying and losing their gear; it didn't work, but the intent was clear. The biggest push came with the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion. It introduced daily quests, instanced dungeons, and a much tighter and more engaging way to level up. No longer were players stuck grinding the same handful of enemies near their 'camp', but instead they could clear a dungeon with something of a storyline and get rewarded for it; the rewards being the special gems used to enhance armor and weapons. This made a huge difference as players shifted from camp-grinding to dungeon grinding. Then came Final Fantasy XI and I stopped playing Everquest. I tried EQ2 too, and it was further streamlined with an attempt to make it more respectful of a player's time, with instanced dungeons and easier to find quests; and an attempt to allow people to 'solo' level. That attempt was a failure that hadn't been adjusted when I shifted to WoW.
thanks josh for mentioning the folding ideas vid, lots of people just get too emotional but wow is a numbers game and designed to be a numbers game so only numbers matter.
One thing I think Jesse missed when talking about BG3 in the starting area, was the video that starts off everything. It establishes so much so fast with saying nothing. You see someone enter a room, looks down and you see another that looks similar but is dead, you see someone trapped (Bae'zel) and is clearly not happy about it, you see her reaction to what happens and then you're next. That sequence establishes 2 story characters. And when you see Lae'zel next you're inclined to trust her because you have a shared experience. And she helps guide you through the starting zone. The video that plays before an after the starting area sets up so much of the story without beating you over the head. There's no single character that sits there and give exposition on "Oh, these are the bad guys, and they did the bad things, and there's a threat" because you see the ship you're on, how it all went down, you were there. It's an absolute amazing intro to the game. Much like the comments given about FF7.
cheats and or difficulty definitely changes the experience of a game, ive been playing days gone recently and a lot of people complained about how hard it was and that it ruined the experience, ive been playing it with cheats and its absolutely so fun, all the good parts of that game without the insane difficulty when it comes to hoards
The first time I learnt of the quote years ago, it basically shifted my entire worldview surrounding games. I come from a background of CS and League and was amateur pro. It became impossible to view any game from a passive standpoint, rather I must hyper engage and optimise in order to do the exceptional best I can. Years later I realised it was just sucking so much of the fun out of the game for me. Optimising is fun if the fun you're looking for heavily requires it, like speedrunning or competitive games, but to apply it to every game? You're killing a lot of the fun for yourself and you don't even know it. That's the greatest problem with the information age meshing with video games. We have fun playing the game and we want to explore the game in other mediums such as content online. It'll be impossible to avoid seeing stuff like "best guns in X" or "meta build for Y", and once you get a taste of something that was truly so much better than what you've been doing, the illusion is shattered and you're stuck on that side of the wall forever. No longer can you fall back and just vibe the rest of the way. So do yourself a favour when you play a game and just play it, if you're stuck, sure google a fix if you're impatient or lacking time, but don't optimise. Avoid optimising the fun out of the game. Play it your way and the experiences you never see coming will be the most memorable. If you follow some strat and you succeed, it's not a surprise and won't feel rewarding. Games are meant to be fun for you, but you have to allow yourself to have fun.
Love to see JSH here, crossover of a bunch of my favourite youtubers. :D Dodger's brainfart at around 39 minutes gave me real 'We occasionally talk about video games' vibes though. Good times.
What a great episode! Makes me wonder what it would’ve been like if TB is in the call as well. Poor Dodger wouldn’t get a word in like the old days 😅 but I bet we could get some cool conversations too.
@@nickputney605 TotalBiscuit, a hugely influential gaming TH-camr/reviewer and very close friend to Jesse and Dodger. The three of them had a podcast much like this one for many years.
I absolutely LOVED this guest, guys. Please have him on again! I'm so lucky my morning meeting got cancelled I was able to watch the whole thing live for once. And in case anyone reading this ever has any doubts that being a podcast guest attracts new viewers, I'm pretty sure I found co-optional through Felicia Day back in the before times and have followed Jesse and Dodger ever since. And now I'm about to dive headfirst into JSH's videos and Mass Effect stream. (I also dip into some of AshleyRoboto's streams because of her Geekenders ep).
You guys notice the podcasts get longer and longer? It's more and more like a second Co-optional and I'm fully in support of it.
Shh, don't tell them
I'm here for it lol
the slow burn of eventually reaching 3 hours. I have listened to podcasts that started with 90 minute episodes that slowly over time ballooned to 4 hours plus and have stayed there for a majority of its runtime to the point that on occasion they make jokes about reaching a "new hour unlock" with their listeners.
Agreed
They do occasionally talk about video games
Damn this whole vibe feels familiar- the Cox, the Doogs, and a British man. More please!
I still refuse to pre-order.
F
i miss TB
😭
just saw on reddit, its been 6 years TO THE DAY 😥
@@Blitzkrieger17 feels 2 times longer
Can't believe they got Rob Stark as a guest!
i thought it's Henry Cavil
@@Edzterthe wish version
@@scaredscorpion well if this is the wish version i don't think i need the real one anymore
@@scaredscorpion Still pretty good :)
Alibi Rob Stark
0:09:00 Jesse: "I see your dodge"
Josh: "Thank you; I'm training to be a politician."
this man is already on fire and we've only just begun
He was an awesome guest! :D I'd keep him if we could. xD
I'm currently at the Blizzard discussion about 18 minutes in and I can almost hear TB jumping in with "Welcome to the Geekenders, we SOMETIMES talk about video games..."
I read this comment in his voice.
I miss him...
This may have been upgraded to First Monitor Content. I've never been more excited to watch an episode of Geekenders.
Don't get overwhelmed. It's important to stay completely whelmed.
It was the mention of Jiggle Physics. We know.
And here I am only listening to like a noob while sitting in the lounge watching football with the bleh commentators turned off......This may need to be re-consumed? (I didn't "watch" it the first time).
Maybe…
I never never knew how much I needed Josh on Geekenders till it was handed to me.
"Accessible doesn't mean easy" thank you Jesse. I have one arm and the arm I do have has a hand so weak sometimes I can't pick up a milk bottle. I have beaten every Fromsoft Soulsbourne and a few non-Fromsoft ones.
That's great!
Hot damn that's impressive and fantastic.
Cool!
The Jesse, the Dodger and the british man that keeps them both quiet lol...yeah, I've seen that dynamic before :D
I was about to say. Dodger and Jessop and the strongly opinioned British man that talks eloquently about the intricacies of the gaming industry..... That feels familiar.
@@TojiChiba And it doesn't feel wrong at all. It took me back 10 years for sure :)
@@TheSeriousSquirrelGaming 100%
they even ditched the dumbass pronouns
🥲
Doogs, Cox and Sassy English Man. Where have I seen this before?
o7
I have come to this podcast via Josh and have to say: Are Dodger and Jesse immortal? They look the exact same as ten years ago.
Jesse yes, Doogs no
It’s honestly uncanny. I haven’t watched since TB sadly past away and they look exactly the same
I was thinking the same thing
Love both Jesse and Dodger shouting, "WE JUST WANTED THE BOOBA!"
One of my favorite episodes so far. Perfect balance of topic discussion, segues, and goofs
Can say that i have already done Josh's homework. FF14 we did an extreme fight with just one healer but that healer was the only sober player in the fight. It was truly a unique experience
i'll never go back to see if theres a response to any comment i leave, but im almost curious what server and fc, because those are 100% my kind of antics lol...
Designated healer 😂 omg that's babysitting (EX)
How dare you do that to the healer! Next time have them be drunk! :oP
Dude, Josh Strife Hayes was amazing in this podcast, he felt like TotalBiscuit back in the day, I am so glad he joined the podcast, love that man.
Just found this channel because of Josh. Subscribed immediately, and I want to say, your sound quality is top notch, and the banner at the bottom that shows the current topic is FANTASTIC, and more video podcasts need to do this
Can we all just appreciate the voice Josh has, holy crap it’s soothing
Just wait until you see rest of his content. I'm glad to be one of the early ones to discover his channels
He truly has it all. Smart and funny as fuck whilst being that hot. World just ain’t fair 😂
This one goes on the 1st monitor baby.
Fantastic episode, there's definitely a lot of highlights!
Also, at 1:35:40 the game is Subverse - funnily enough people weren't as mad that it had a game inside it, but that the quality of the *scenes* was not as good as what was available on the internet already, considering they raised a crazy amount of money on kickstarter for it.
I think it more about everyone expected not the LEWD cut-scenes after some shitty game-play, but playable intractable scenes as a game. And in Subverse you can't even rotate camera during the scene it's just plays as a video on internet. And the actual game-play was shitty turn based chess. I.e. everyone expected Illusion game, but got a Strip Poker game instead.
I honestly could listen to this man talk all day about any topic, definitely a great guest. Josh's coverage of Baldur's Gate in his Plays channel is still one of my favorites. I can't wait for when he the finishes New Vegas video when he finally gets to talk about it in length.
50:03 This is why I'm glad how P5 changed how the first hour starts compared to P4 and P5. Showing a bit of what the combat is like at the start, starting off at one of the most gorgeous palaces in the game and then ending with a plot twist that makes you want to learn more. The sooner your game manages to show how things will be 30ish hours down the line, the better chance I'll be wanting to stick around to try everything else your game has to offer.
So glad to have Josh here, he's been by far one of the best up and coming content creators in last few years
IT'S THE WEEKEND!
You better watch out!
YEAH ITS TIME TO GEEK OUT
I'm glad the intro grew on everybody 🍻
LET IT BEGIN!
COME ON SCREAM AND SHOUT!!
Holy moly it’s the weekend and with Josh!? This is gonna be a GREAT WEEKEND!
yooooo i love when great youtubers that i watch separately get together
Been watching Jesse and Dodger for over a decade, discovered Josh after the Asmon stuff. This feels like a collab of different generations of Power Rangers. AWESOME.
Bet JC and JSH have a LOT to discuss about MMOs!
39:06
Man, I was so strongly reminded of TB saying "We sometimes talk about games!"
A very high quality guest who's knowledgeable and deeply passionate about games. Need more episodes like this please!
This was a really fun episode to listen to. I really enjoyed the deep conversations that the tangents took us to. It brought out some great points that I’ve not thought about before. Well done guys!
man, i feel like i just got TB flashbacks
6 years now :( still miss him
TB was good people
TB was the best 😢
@@buggy89 If you don't mind me asking, who's TB? And did something happen to them?
@@Billybobjoe Totalbiscuit. They were a legendary youtuber that really pioneered PC gaming discussion we have today. He had a podcast with Jesse and Dodger as his co-hosts. In 2017 he lost his battle with cancer and he sadly passed away
I've been foiled! You managed to make me put Josh on my first monitor!
JOSH STRIFE HAYES with Jessie and Dodger. Best possible combo
Considering Jesse's public love of The IT Crowd, I'm surprised Josh didn't bring out his Matthew Berry, maybe saving it for future episode
I am a game programmer (focused on movement and general gameplay), and here is how I see the importance of a fast-paced introduction.
I don't think it is necessary, but what IS necessary is that the tutorial should be as short as possible while explaining the mechanics.
But the important bit, right? The tutorial must be a microcosm of the game at large. The pacing, the general gameplay feel, the story-beats sometimes, and more.
This is one reason why Fallout New Vegas succeeds so well. The Goodsprings intro sums up the entire game in all the ways. Look around and talk to people for quests, there is the conflict between two factions and you can play them both for extra cash. There is hidden secrets and you can use your tongue and skills to avoid conflict to some extent, but ultimately it comes down to a firefight where you can stack the favours your way!
I like how folks try to beat the first demon in BG3, and then we figured out you can just "Command: Drop" and leg it lol.
I just love that the devs have that as an option! Even if it wasn’t intended (idk if it was, but I like thinking it wasn’t)
@@yetiz_gaming230 they buffed hp of demon before release because everyone was killing him, so yeah they it's not intended.
@@PandaBearWithMic Too be fair, it’s still possible to kill the demon with some luck. But the mindflayer turns on you now so you have to set up the escape while killing him.
@@Kylesico912x Aye I killed him not long ago when starting a char so it is possible, but you kinda need the flayer to survive long enough to tank for you and also not miss many hits so you burst him down in time.
OOOOHH Great get for a guest. Can't wait to hang out with yall!
I was so excited to see Josh Strife Hayes as a guest on the Geekenders, what a fantastic episode, just a perfect clash of some of my favorite online content right now.
1:07:53 I love this hammer thing. Sometimes we all just play support or tank or something and just goof around, switch it up to experience something different for a change.
"Good artists copy but great artists steal" is my new favorite quote. As an artist and game developer, it's so incredibly true. And it's a very frustrating reality.
I remember way back when my friend recommended the anime “the 12 kingdoms” and said just get to episode 4 and it’s amazing. I was sitting there watching the first 3 eps complaining about the characters to him the entire time and he just kept smiling. When I got to the very specific part he knew was coming, I said “holy shit this is amazing” and he just smiled even bigger lol
Josh Strife Hayes is most definitely the spiritual successor to Total Biscuit. Nobody can replace TB. He is a legend and will always be a legend. But, Josh has the same decency, discerning eye, suave and charisma and has very successfully filled that void that the whole gamer community felt when John died. John will never be forgotten, and we will always love him. Josh fills the shoes very effectively and I have great respect for him for it.
Now just call Crendor and it'll be like the old days!
I am glad Josh showed up to moderate this episode.
OMG yes i LOVE JOSH. ITS THE WEEKEND BABY!
Sooo pumped that JSH is the guest! YO ITS THE WEEKEND!!
Chuckled at the Neil Newbon mention, what a lovely endorsement. Fantastic episode!
Ladies and gentlemen, they got him.
This is definitely one of the better episodes you guys have put out. As much as a love an hour of goofs from Jesse and Dodger, there is so much excellent conversation in this one about various design elements and how games hook players and expectations...
Alongside goofs. Love to see it
So nice of Josh to invite them to his podcast
I am so excited for Josh as a guest!
Jesse Cox, Dodger and a brit ranting about MMORPGs... Why is this so comfortingly familiar?
Josh is a gem, thank you so much for bringing him on this show.
The discussions this episode were amazing. Well done!
i think the biggest feature of FF14 is also its biggest flaw, the fact that is one continuous story means you can't really change or remove old content, and when you start the game you start playing a game with story, writing, animation and mechanics from 10 years ago and as time goes by the story and quality progresses more and more and the initial content starts looking and feeling older and older
I remember trying the free part and bouncing off of it. And it kind of made me feel like I was doing it wrong, because I usually love story-rich games.
I think part of it is that the game doesn't explain very much of the lore of what happened prior to the game starting and IIRC it didn't really ground my character in the world very much. And then there's 'chosen one' type stuff which is sort of okay but also in itself not in itself motivation but rather the theme of the content you're going into.
It was also the very first FInal Fantasy I played so that may or may not play into it.
This is by far the best episode so far. I learned so much and loved the in-depth discussion. The guest has definitely earned a new subscriber from me. Keep up to good work Jesse and Dodger!
I always appreciate the reality checks. Almost all of the player base are just playing after school/uni or work.
I've watched every episode since the day this podcast started, and honestly this is my favourite episode, Josh really adds a great dynamic to the podcast that harmonises really well with Jesse and Dodger's more chaotic vibes (not saying Josh can't be chaotic, but his more analytical/"essay" way of speaking and his occassional assertiveness really shakes things up in an interesting way), and i know it's a wild idea and it's probably not gonna happen, but i think it'd be really cool if Josh could be a permanent third host, or at least pop up again like the way Crendor does
Was literally on a gravel ride listening to this live yesterday (not to worry, bone conduting headphones, I could still hear the surroundings), but had to see the video version of it too. Such a fantastic episode! Had never had the chance to see any of Josh's content but now I gots to go see all his worst MMO videos. The discussions on this episode were just absolute 🔥 Thanks for yet another spectacular guest! I don't have a reminder in my calendar for any other show, but I HAVE to catch Geekenders live on Friday. It's a must. Also a must? Rewatch on Saturday morning.
The crossover I didn't know I needed! Excellent show and a great dynamic, I do hope Josh can be a guest more often!
Damn I just love Josh's gamer humor that he just throws in everywhere like it's a serious conversation. :P
Also, I was only just alerted to this podcast existing. I guess I have a lot of catching up to do now. ^^;;
I actually played Skyrim as a "Son of Skyrim". A Nord heavy armor, two handed hammer wielding boy, who never looted any of the buried corpses when he went into the dungeons (disturbing the dead is taboo to the Nord), and he always started every fight by shouting FUS! to get the attention of every nearby enemy (Because he fought his foes honorably, declaring his presence for battle!). It actually was fantastic fun. I would go into a dungeon, shout FUS! and it would agro like the first 2 rooms or so of badguys. I'd have a big frantic melee/magic battle with them, they'd die, and then I'd move further down and repeat. It made dungeon crawls take like 10-15 minutes tops, compared to like 2 hours as a stealth archer. Every time he would kill a dragon and take it's soul, he would shout the full FUS ROH DAH!! into the sky, declaring his victorious battle.
I also played a healer pacifist priest, who only used healing and buffing spells, and had a warrior companion to fight by my side. That one was fun too.
That nord play sounds like a lot of fun
@@KerzacTransformed It was, I specifically wanted to play something that was the opposite of a stealth archer. The moment the build clicked for me was when I was doing one of the earliest dungeons, and did the whole "come at me bro!" approach to combat, and finished the dungeon in no time. I'd played enough times to remember how long that place usually took me and I was like "...wait did that seriously just take 10 minutes?!?!" 🤣
That healer build is epic. Love it
I could feel jesse supressing his laughter for the first 10 minutes of this podcast 😂
Jesse's laughter heals my soul
Jesse, Dodger and an educated, well spoken Brit with a fantastic voice and elocution as well as a critical view of the video game industry...
Judging from the comments, I'm not alone in my nostalgia!
Also, had no idea who Josh was before this episode, but I'm absolutely going to check out his content after this!
The best establishing moment in gaming comes from Disco Elysium, I think. That game will take approximately 2.5 seconds from pressing the Start Game button to tell you exactly what it’s about.
Doom 2016 should also get a mention. It takes, what, ten seconds from hitting "Start" to you stoving a Demon's skull in, picking up a pistol and going ham on everything that moves for the next 8 hours xD
@ninjabreadman1993r At the start of that game, Samuel Hayden literally tries to give you an opening monologue to establish the plot and the doom slayer throws the computer monitor at the wall, runs off and starts killing things.
That theme tune is so damn good. It really sets up the vibe of the show perfectly.
Yoooooooo I didn't expect this crossover!! I love Josh!
Yes Josh is here! Best combo ever i bet, excited to watch this one
That whole "the bell doesn't dismiss you, I DO" Hit me in some kinda way lol
I would argue that Everquest was already trying to streamline its gameplay loop long before WoW appeared. First it was in establishing a (relatively) fast way to getting to other lands, and creating a central hub for every player in the Planes of Power expansion. Players no longer had to use the very long ship voyages, after running the length of multiple zones (pulling mobs along with them as they went). They were no longer isolated from each other in whichever major city their race was centralized in. This increased the chances of getting into parties to level, or very rarely quest. The PoP also tried to encourage players to push into the underutilized zones without as much fear of dying and losing their gear; it didn't work, but the intent was clear.
The biggest push came with the Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion. It introduced daily quests, instanced dungeons, and a much tighter and more engaging way to level up. No longer were players stuck grinding the same handful of enemies near their 'camp', but instead they could clear a dungeon with something of a storyline and get rewarded for it; the rewards being the special gems used to enhance armor and weapons. This made a huge difference as players shifted from camp-grinding to dungeon grinding.
Then came Final Fantasy XI and I stopped playing Everquest.
I tried EQ2 too, and it was further streamlined with an attempt to make it more respectful of a player's time, with instanced dungeons and easier to find quests; and an attempt to allow people to 'solo' level. That attempt was a failure that hadn't been adjusted when I shifted to WoW.
This is the most intellectual discussion on modern gaming and I loved it
thanks josh for mentioning the folding ideas vid, lots of people just get too emotional but wow is a numbers game and designed to be a numbers game so only numbers matter.
Omg yall got henry cavill on the podcast and he talking MMOS?! *chef's kiss* ITS THE WEEKEND!
One thing I think Jesse missed when talking about BG3 in the starting area, was the video that starts off everything. It establishes so much so fast with saying nothing. You see someone enter a room, looks down and you see another that looks similar but is dead, you see someone trapped (Bae'zel) and is clearly not happy about it, you see her reaction to what happens and then you're next. That sequence establishes 2 story characters. And when you see Lae'zel next you're inclined to trust her because you have a shared experience. And she helps guide you through the starting zone. The video that plays before an after the starting area sets up so much of the story without beating you over the head. There's no single character that sits there and give exposition on "Oh, these are the bad guys, and they did the bad things, and there's a threat" because you see the ship you're on, how it all went down, you were there. It's an absolute amazing intro to the game. Much like the comments given about FF7.
This has been a fantastic episode. Toying around with getting into MMOs, I really enjoyed the conversation here
My 3 favorite 2nd monitor content creators, this gonma be good
Worth the promotion to main monitor then?
cheats and or difficulty definitely changes the experience of a game, ive been playing days gone recently and a lot of people complained about how hard it was and that it ruined the experience, ive been playing it with cheats and its absolutely so fun, all the good parts of that game without the insane difficulty when it comes to hoards
thank you for having josh strife hayes on for a collab 🙂❤ i love all of you and these conversations are a lot of fun
I was playing Desert Bus and that twist at the 7 hour 3 minute mark made it all worth it. I even started over to see it again. Amazing.
I'm always happy to listen to Josh talk.
Hope you can make him a regular.
Perfect second monitor episode. You love to see it.
Glad I finally found time to listen to last week's episode! Always look forward to Weekenders.
dodger and jesse are literally the most timeless superhero duo
Jeese, doogs and a eloquent well spoken English man all we need is some crendorian chaos and it's the co optional and that's beautiful
I could listen to these 3 talk about games for 5 hours straight, amazing episode 💚
The first time I learnt of the quote years ago, it basically shifted my entire worldview surrounding games. I come from a background of CS and League and was amateur pro. It became impossible to view any game from a passive standpoint, rather I must hyper engage and optimise in order to do the exceptional best I can. Years later I realised it was just sucking so much of the fun out of the game for me. Optimising is fun if the fun you're looking for heavily requires it, like speedrunning or competitive games, but to apply it to every game? You're killing a lot of the fun for yourself and you don't even know it. That's the greatest problem with the information age meshing with video games. We have fun playing the game and we want to explore the game in other mediums such as content online.
It'll be impossible to avoid seeing stuff like "best guns in X" or "meta build for Y", and once you get a taste of something that was truly so much better than what you've been doing, the illusion is shattered and you're stuck on that side of the wall forever. No longer can you fall back and just vibe the rest of the way. So do yourself a favour when you play a game and just play it, if you're stuck, sure google a fix if you're impatient or lacking time, but don't optimise. Avoid optimising the fun out of the game. Play it your way and the experiences you never see coming will be the most memorable. If you follow some strat and you succeed, it's not a surprise and won't feel rewarding. Games are meant to be fun for you, but you have to allow yourself to have fun.
This was such a great episode! I had never heard of Josh Strife Hayes before, but he was an amazing guest.
Love to see JSH here, crossover of a bunch of my favourite youtubers. :D
Dodger's brainfart at around 39 minutes gave me real 'We occasionally talk about video games' vibes though. Good times.
Didn't even know these guys knew each other! Amazing.
Didnt watch this podcast for a long time, but Josh fits well with your dynamic, really loved that episode!
What a great episode! Makes me wonder what it would’ve been like if TB is in the call as well. Poor Dodger wouldn’t get a word in like the old days 😅 but I bet we could get some cool conversations too.
While watching this I realized that yesterday it was 6 years since TB died.
He would have loved knowing that this podcast exists.
He would have indeed 🥺
Who is TB?
@@nickputney605 TotalBiscuit, a hugely influential gaming TH-camr/reviewer and very close friend to Jesse and Dodger.
The three of them had a podcast much like this one for many years.
This was such an insanely good discussion to listen to.
This podcast is talking about the video games, I enjoy video games so i enjoy this podcast!
TBF I would listen to someone read all those logs in Mass Effect instead of reading them myself.
I've been waiting for an episode like this where we step into some more interesting discussions of games!
Josh Strife Hayes is that educator that forces you to understand the difference between "can I use the bathroom?" and "may I use the bathroom?"
I absolutely LOVED this guest, guys. Please have him on again! I'm so lucky my morning meeting got cancelled I was able to watch the whole thing live for once.
And in case anyone reading this ever has any doubts that being a podcast guest attracts new viewers, I'm pretty sure I found co-optional through Felicia Day back in the before times and have followed Jesse and Dodger ever since. And now I'm about to dive headfirst into JSH's videos and Mass Effect stream. (I also dip into some of AshleyRoboto's streams because of her Geekenders ep).
Wow what a guest! AND ON THE WEEKEND!
Man, this whole podcast was a lesson in game desing, Loved it.
This is my favorite episode to date!
I am diving in Josh's streams now and here is a podcast with him. Weird and great!
Homework already done! Playing off-meta is how I live, play what is fun, let the meta jockeys live their lives.. away.. far away