Tutorial - Direct vs. Bowden - 3D Printing
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2016
- What is the difference between Direct drive extrusion and a Bowden setup? Why go bowden over direct or vice versa?
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Joe Mike - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
![[Устарело] Сравнение Direct и Bowden экструдеров. Что лучше и быстрее?](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MPO144QmJJs/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Устарело] Сравнение Direct и Bowden экструдеров. Что лучше и быстрее?](/img/tr.png)
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Describing jerk using lotion? Priceless!
And the motion. 🤣🤣
At less he didn’t illustrate using z axis.
Really nice tutorial. I learnt a lot and it was really well explained. Thank you!!
The message (deleted here) was meant for Jacob, my apologies.
Hi! That was the best explanation of the physics of 3D printer heads movement I've seen until now. Thanks a lot.
Good summary of the two while putting the two into practice. Just changed my Ender 3 into DD and ready to test it out :)
Excellent job explaining this. I am just starting my journey, and thought I have made up my mind on what printer to get, but after watching this video.... I’ve got some more thinking to do! Thanks. I’m going to check out more of your videos now.
This is very well explained - thank you!
Holy sh..i came here to gain some sleep because the amount of information and it tossed me at 2 am. I hate you but i love you man.
Nice tutorial JMT ... Great for many people who have little idea of the difference. This being said I would have like to see your take on jerk settings with direct drive in particular. Maybe a future video?
Thanks for sharing! Excellent explanation!
Thank you for explaining the differences.
Thank you! Well-explained!
wow this is a really good video! thanks for explaining this!
From an absolute beginner who has just purchased his first 3d printer, what an amazing tutorial and insight into filament transport mechanisms. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with the maker community. By the way my printer has a Bowden setup, phew!!! am I glad that I bought an AnyCubic i3 Mega-S. Once again thanks from an 'across the pond' dude.
Great vid, very well explained.
I'm sold on it and I don't even have a 3D printer yet. I will be getting the FT5 once I'm able. Since I like to tinker and know how things work I figure it would be a good learning experience. I'd love to see a video from you about the conversion from the direct drive that comes standard on the FT5 to a the bowden should you do that to yours. Thanks for all the info you are putting out on these topics. Your videos have helped me out tremendously while researching everything before purchasing a set up.
Thanks for the understanding
Hi there. geared extruders can be bowden or direct feed but are not direct drive which means the hobbed gear is directly on the motor shaft. ;)
Thanks it was very helpful!
Awesome video. I have a Bowden setup and it really frustrates me, I was considering replacing it with direct drive. I wish you would have talked a little bit about the possible failure rate of the two. I am constantly fighting clogs due to bowden tube slip or imperfect fit.
Great explanation
Very nice info thank you very much
good thank you. will buy a boden printer and mount a direct drive on it if i ever need to do flexible print.
Very well explained. I'm new to 3D printing. It's on order.
What did you order?
Thanks for the vid! On a printrbot metal the Bowden is on the moving arm. Is this redundant / poor design?
I can see the benefit of a bowden extruder for inertia considerations. I think that it has it's place for high speed printing. For feed accuracy, I think direct drive gives a more accurate feed rate, especially with soft flexible filaments.I dont think that a bowden setup would even work with a flexible filament such as Ninjaflex.
So i have to ask. In the Tevo Tarantula video, you go were favoring the E3D titan and a pancake stepper with the printed x carriage and parts. Whats your current opinion between the 2? I feel the aluminum extrusions in the TEVO would fare way better for direct drive than the rods on most printers
Well explained, BUT why is that one of the leaders in the market (E3D) with their V6 Titan top of the range head provide a direct drive extruder on top of the hot end ? Perhaps they know something we don't ?
That was helpful thx
Nice tutorial.
I just saw a modification for my Anet ET4(which is bowden) to a direct drive, but I'm not sure what's the benefit of that.
I think I'll stick to the bowden, it works pretty well for me, it does require a higher retraction as mentioned.
First very useful, I'm running an anet a8 and I am in the process of upgrading to a bowden setup with and off-brand e3dv6 extruder for printing petg and pla costumes and props. I am having a problem with the centering of the hotend due to the offset of the stock direct drive to the new e3dv6/ bowden setup? Please help.
Makes all the sense, you convinced me. I'm moving to bowden extruder.
Esta muy bien explicado :D
un saludo
Yeah, I'm good with having the hotend not be "weighed" down by the direct drive, using a better Bowden tube (Capricorn) - ender 3 pro
so i have hellobeeprusa do you think its good idea to go hybrid setup with other bowden and other direct.
Such a long bowden tube!
I am building a delta at present, and what people dont do, is to take the weight of the effector and all arms and rings plus hotend, divide it by 3 and add counterweights on the outside of the belts. Most deltas are not balanced to zero weight and thus will bjrn the motors eventually.
Can you please link a pic of the prints done at 90 speed.
I do huge prints myself and I need both quality AND speed.
Well explained, thanks! Would you be able to show same prints with bowden extruder compared to a direct drive? How is quality affected by this jerk motion?
that can be the subject for another video. ..show the same print with the same settings and same gcode same printer but different extruder. .bowden and direct drive. .It would be nice also comparing quality of 3D prints on printers with linear bearings and rods compared to v-slot with v wheels...keep up the good work. . you got a subscriber here, cheers!
So the pro of a Bowden is that it makes the x-carriage lighter so it can move faster, but what about the Y-axis?
My y-carriage has this big aluminum frame, a hot plate, and a sheet of glass, then I'll print some big part that weighs half a kilo. Maybe I shave about 350g off the x-carriage with Bowden, but the y-axis mass is my limiting factor for jerk and acceleration. Not really clear how reducing x-carriage mass significantly below the y-carriage mass helps things much. Maybe it's possible, but in my Bowden experiment I could not get the retraction settings to produce the same quality as with my direct drive. I had mistakenly assumed maybe they were good for flexible filament, but of course the compression inside the Bowden tube ruins your feed pressure control, so that's useless as the video mentions. Maybe it makes sense for small things you just want to print real fast. Outside of delta printer applications, I don't really see the value.
Not all Nema 17 motors have same torque. Get one with a little more torque, increase the current a little more, and make sure your belt tension is placed on the x-axis rods and not the vertical z-axis guides (I'm shocked to still see printers with this original Prusa oversight, it's an easy mod). I also went with a 4 bearing x-carriage and redesigned mount for better head stability. IMHO these modifications yield much better performance improvements then the Bowden setup.
Also... for larger prints, moves typically become longer and therefore jerk and acceleration don't limit printing speed so performance in that regard becomes negligibly different. If you really care how fast you can do small honeycomb fill, or that crazy HIlbert curve, then Bowden will be the winner.
MAke the instructions for how to convert to bowden on flashforge and other pritners!! and links to the products on aliexpress or wherever you buy them!
the video was great. I really understood the difference now. but I am curious how much faster it would be in commons i3 clone printers.
no faster since you are limited by the heaviest axis, which is y. any benifits from a lighter y and z would need to have programming with faster acceleration rates.
very good
The bracket used to fix the Bowden is printed in pla or abs?
Oldie but goodie
So I am not going to or planning on using flexibles. So basically "upgrading" to direct would be pointless?
If you want a quality 3d print, speed is not a requirement.
3d printing is not about mass production, so if you have to wait
3 hours or 4 hours, who cares. Because you won't wait.
That is: I built a printer with 8mm pitch acme lead screws.
It's pretty solid and can handle jerks.
However, the titan extruder has a much smaller motor, because
it needs less torque with the 1:3 gear ratio.
That might be a decent go-between.
It's not all about jerking motions though. It's best to go slow also because you are forcing a lot of plastic through a very tiny hole and forcing it too fast doesn't give good layer adhesion or accuracy or print. You can turn the heat up but machines generally behave better and last longer the slower and less jerky they go. There's also your bed jerk to take into account too, but you can set individual tolerances in the settings to avoid this jerk. I find the bigger the bed the more this comes into play as it's more weight.
I always set acceleration and jerk to be a nice sine wave because I hate machines being over worked and the noise isn't pleasant. It sacrifices speed, but it keeps the machine happy and my prints nicer and my ears less bashed.
Kind of like the idea behind mig welders, you can have a spool gun style (direct drive), push fed (bowden style) or you can have a feeder/spool gun connected to a push fed system. This is where my question starts, couldn't you do the same as a mig welder and have both a direct drive and a bowden setup running in conjunction with each other? Can't really see a downside with it to be honest, you'd have a constant amount of filament, you wouldn't have too many issues with trying to fine tune like you do with a bowden setup but you also don't have the issue of the x carriage being pulled by the filament either. Might be something to think about, might be something I try when I get my 3D printer.
I like this idea.
you might be OK moving your x at 90mm sec. but velocity is not as important as acceleration. while a higher velocity will require more energy to change direction, the "shock" will not be any worse, it will just last 50% longer than the 60mm sec rate. since the nema losing steps is related to how hard you accelerate, the benifit to the bowden setup is that you can accelerate faster and have the same "shock" but if you don't change the acceleration rate you won't se any better results time wise. most of the shock comes from that huge table being moved by the same stepper and if you don't lighten the y load, you are no better off. the table is the limiting factor since it has the higher weight(especially those with glass added on). if I'm missing something, please tell me, because you can't increase loads on the x unless the heavier y can keep up.
You make an excellent point. I hadn't even though of that! Also, I wasn't impressed by the 90mm/s speed. I produce excellent prints at 80mm/s with my direct extruder. I would only consider a bowden setup if the prints were at least 30% faster.
1:07 boop :D
Hello, im new to 3d printing, my printer is an creality ender 2 and i have a dumb question: what is that thing on the side, look like liquid glue, ive seen many pictures with printer having that thing, and i want to now if maybe i need it to achieve the queality of many videos ive seen, thank you! and nice video
Joe Mike Terranella ohh ill look for your videos abou it, thank you so much!
Joe, you are a genius! Greetings from Brazil!
I have an UP Mini direct drive printer. It's the fastest, most accurate printer I have and I have 2 other direct drive printers and 3 bowden printers. Other then flexible filament I have yet to see an advantage to using either type....
Thank you, do you have the tutorial on switching the prusa to bowden?
The I3 mk2 chinese knockoff type
www.amazon.com/Arrival-HICTOP-Filament-Self-assembly-Printing/dp/B01ERDWSFU/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1489438469&sr=8-6&keywords=i3+printer
I like your video very much, but the business consulting mailbox shows an error and my delivery failed. How can I contact you, I want to work with you, tell me what to do, thank you
I'm trying to change out my direct drive to a bowden tube but the motor is pushing the filament out instead of pulling it in not sure where I'm going wrong here ...
If the motor isnt on the cartridhe where is it? I dont get it. Where does the motor go to?
Also, with a bowden setup, the extruder is always the same distance from the spool, and this contributes to the potential of a more accurate feed rate. However, bowden setups are prone to feeding problems(requires more hob gear cleaning) due to all that extra back pressure. Worth it in my opinion.
I don't really understand why the distance from the spool matters that much, but I honestly can't understand why else the feed rate is all over the place on direct drive setups, requiring gearing to get extra precision when a bowden really doesn't need it... unless you are going for ultra precise prints that is.
The total bed weight in a prusa style printer. Is probably more than the direct drive setup. So shouldnt matter what you use if the bed is limited to another speed.
So is it impossible to print ninja flex with bowden
Really great tutorial Joe. I may have to convert my Prusa to a bowden system.
You can do this all day! less mass, more velocity, lubricated tubes man get it! eyyyy
on a serious note, thanks. Good breakdown for us at the back of the class. ^^
What is that printer at your back? I am going to make my own printer and that printer is very close to what I had in my mind. Could you please tell me its brand and model please? I would really want to check it out
Thanks
Do you buy chance have the stl file for the bltouch mount that you used @2:19 ?
Thank you very much
What's the intro song?
In one Year: Bowden Hotend
You explained this perfectly! you know your shit
so have you been lifting grinders
is there a lightweight nema stepper motor available that would help?
Yes, there are lots of small lightweight low-torque stepper motors. Like NEMA-8 mount, pancake NEMA17 mount, non-NEMA mounts. Some of them will probably work in a reduction geared extruder, not in the typical direct drive extruders.
A better solution is a motor at the frame transferring the rotational motion using a flexible driveshaft.
Umm, is that bad dragon lube?
06:55 why did i lose it at 07:03 ?
What if you run out of fillament? You'd just have a length of fillament stuck in your print head ruining your printer, and let's not mention the fire hazard.
You use much better shampoo than your wife does. :P I use that same teatree oil 'salon' shampoo! It smells like Pine Sol!
Great explanation. :D
I’m changing my CR-10 to direct drive now...
as both of our names are Joseph and my last name is bowden, this is epic
Como hacerlo direct con en una anet a6
Joe Mike Terranella eres latino? O simplemente hablas español también?
It’s Pantene pro-v conditioner. Now you know.
If its all about science i would tell your wife to change from tresemme to something else aha
After watching a shitload of these videos I'm fairly sure it's about rigidity and accuracy of the moving parts - like you say, remove the excess weight on the x axis and the moving parts have less inertia and are that much easier to move when the code requires it.
You really need to learn the difference between a direct extruder, and a direct drive extruder. the type you are referring to here is the direct extruder.
Cool. Great, so direct drive is for female conditioner and a bowden is for male shampoo. Also explains why women call us jerks when we try to get them moving faster. :)
yeah man, move it as fast as you want to, without that jerk :D ... oh wait it is a jerk :)
Your mic is not good
If I'm not in a fat hurry, forget the Bowden. Too much clogging, fussing, back-up pressure, breakage... no. Sure, Bowden can be effective, but I'm all done with them.
If I borrow my wifes lotion and move the step motor, The jerking of my “hotend” that extrudes “hot filament” on the warm bed will result in better quality printing???
Me to my wife:
Get some lotion now! Warm up the printer bed, My hotend needs a jerkin for some good good “printin”
Everywhere I look, bowden is the cheap route and direct drive is considered the upgrade.
Skip it all, use a LCD, strong uv source, stepper lift and resin... sla master race..kidding I don't even own a 3d printer. Have done uv lithography though. How the fuck does a company get a patent on using another companies chip made for light projection..by simply using one frequency/limited band of freq/wavelength of light and calling it a new invention? Can I patent using a i7 to type the word red?
Vibration and jerking have no place in 3D printing.
your comparison is not good. bearings on a smooth rod is not like waving your arm in the air. LOL
Joe Mike Terranella no offense but stepper motors can only get so fast based on the length of the rods. And no matter if you have direct or Bowden your prints are going to be better at slower speeds and if you want quality then it's best to run it slower.
U r a you do not need to cover up the brand names
Why is this video so low quality? The black bars are killing me! Bad audio, one cut and he wants a manufacturer to send him a 3d printer? Why? So he can make a crappy quality tutorial?
Joe Mike Terranella No hug needed. Drop the black bars bro.
Joe Mike Terranella Cool, will do.
+Joe Mike Terranella well said
Dude you couldn't even get the video size right..........