theres a format of Go called Hidden Move Go which is basically this. The game starts with three pieces on the board for each player, but its only revealed if a person tries to play in those spaces, if an illegal move would be made involving those spaces, or if a hidden move is involved in capturing pieces on the board. This reminds me a lot of that, and i really love this. I hope theres more races like this in the future
Mekkah and Raisins mentioned a loose rule of 1 edit = "change one thing about one thing". In order to make Geitz be the only fire dragon damage dealer, Luna needs to be nerfed, the fire dragon needs +def and +res, and Geitz needs a damage bonus that only he can leverage, perhaps a prf that ignores defense. That's minimum 4 edits.
@@msterforks I made the comment before they clarified that was the rule, so in that case you would just need to make it hard to kill with anyone else. Proposed change 1. Remove Luna from the game 2. Remove dragon typing from the dragon(so all the effective weapons don't work) 3. Give geitz 80 attack or something dumb That would make it so every other character would do chip damage at best It would probably be better to make it so Karel or Karla are your dragon killer though since it takes much more effort to recruit them
@@Meowmers1219 There are ways to beat the fire dragon that don't rely on Luna or effective weaponry. We've already seen one in the video, the rex pasta with filla's might. A trained 20/20 Hector does 11 * 2 with the basilikos on average, +10 * 2 with filla's might. The ending might be a slow, rescue drop heal snooze fest, but hardly a large time loss compared to what's actually possible with 3 edits.
@@msterforks That's running under the assumption that you know what the changes are in advance though. There are plenty of races I've seen where people drop the Rex pasta or don't train their Hector to 20/20
@@Meowmers1219 Dropping the S-rank weapons is a chapter reset, which isn't that big of a deal for three edits (eg Mekkah's second edit probably caused comparable time loss). Mekkah's 20/5 Hector with basilikos could still deal damage to the fire dragon, as could Athos with Forblaze. And all of this is the worst case scenario. The big tip off is in ch26 when the shaman doesn't drop a Luna tome. Luna's only purpose in a conventional race setting is for Athos and the final chapter, so this should be a big tell that players need to make extra preps in advance. EDIT: The tell can come as early as ch22, which is the most unfortunate outcome. If the players notice that Luna isn't dropped on that chapter, they might pivot into getting Filla's might.
I think if I was going to do this challenge, my secret addition would be to replace Karel with FE6 Karel's growths and portrait. Everyone always goes for Harken, so the other player's growing confusion at your route to get Karel would be a wonderful tease - with an amusing and entertaining payoff.
Those are the best kind of changes. Ones that you have to go out of your way for and would never randomly wander into on accident. Its why the warp staff on Canas was a bad play, because if your in the lead going for him is a smart play long term because of how quick the map can be. I would have put that warp staff in a very far out of the way village that mekkah would have skipped out on
@@bibohbi-br9gj Yeah, I bet if the race was neck and neck at that point mekkah would more then likely have skipped it since it would lose him to much time. He probably did it because of his athos sabotage, and him being far enough in the lead where he could get away with the detour
@@SuperCosmicSpaceMagnetI would say that barring the warp staff on canas, everything else was very much sabotage LOL. Granted, that’s what we signed up to see, cuz that’s funnier.
I like some of the changes that were made. I got a few ideas if I was playing. 1st change: Changing the order of the doors opening in Final. Normally the doors will open from bottom right, top left, etc. Making you plan out your next move, but we keep the first door the same as to throw off the other player off by opening a different door instead of the top left one with some magic users. 2nd change: Change the item from Village 2 in Four-Fanged Offense (Lloyd version) out with Boots. They will never see this coming as you would normally just kill Lloyd and be done with the level. But going out of your way to get to the second village (the one that's the farther from you) will cost time but early boots is good to have alongside your second boots from BBD. The silence staff is ok but not for this race. 3rd change: Move the boss Oleg, to the top left corner of the map. Simple change that you might find right away if you get jumpscared by him. Just making you waste time going to the other side of the map, only for you to say "where did the boss go?" Idk if placing a thief on either of the 2 top left starting position will allow you to see him at the start of the map.
This was incredibly fun to watch. It did feel like the game had it out for Raisins in the first half. It’s really fun watching you both adjust strategies to countermove the changes.
This was SO much fun, can't wait for the next one! Here are some changes I would have done: 1) Make killing Raven in Ch17 a Game Over. If Marcus is gonna be banned from then on and Hector has to carry that chapter, prepare yourself so you have to run away from him, and it would make a very funny moment for the opponent to get a Game Over xD 2) Swap the Boots chest with the Hammerne staff from the village in Ch26. If the opponent forgets to check the village, no Boots! Not something game-breaking, but annoying at the least if they don't train a flyer. 3) Give Limstella an Iron Rune. That way you have to prepare yourself with Hawkeye or another carry and you bring your Brave weapons. If the opponent brings only Killers, they're screwed!
I had a feeling a silly Athos change (read: making luna athos unviable in some form) would be high priority, but also knew that it would likely force the one who knew about the change to alter their overall strats to be able to account for it, potentially making it too easy to give away given the temptation for the change. So the gaiden selection basically confirmed it for me even before the reveal from Mekkah. …I was not expecting the warp staff in the inventory placed by raisins. I lost my goddamn mind and started cackling at work. Fucking peak comedy, you two are really perfect partners for these things. edit: Holy SHIT that Pale Flower of Darkness change was evil. I know you gave an out by being able to replay the previous chapter but damn LOL. If you ever do this again, y’all are gonna have to make sure it doesnt turn into a constant battle of one-upping one another like how the carlsagan v grandpoobear mario maker challenges did. Or maybe you do…for, you know, the content.
@@dontstealmydiamondsv3156 True, but then there's a big conspicuous notification that I got the item. Maybe Mekkah doesn't look at my screen as much as I think he does, though.
@@OriginalRaisins Something to consider with hiding changes made is intentionally sandbagging. "Oh no I had a really bad chapter 13, and everyones ahead of me by a chapter :((( btw I swapped the mine village with a warpstaff :)))"
Off the top of my head I'd have a stationary boss move. Easy to account for but would catch the other player by surprise. Alternately, random berserk staff.
Dude, I had the idea earlier in the race of swapping the conditions of Pale Flower and secretly getting Exp on Dorcas/Bartre. I thought it would be too big a change, especially compared to changing a base stat or putting an item in a unit's inventory. I'm glad you thought of it and put it in!
Using Canas is a pretty good failsafe for general Fire Dragon related shenanigans. Taking away Athos' dark rank or nerfing Luna doesn't help too much since he still has two other functional weapons even if they're not completely busted. Maybe another funny Athos edit is -3 HP.
There are so many ways to flat out end your opponent's runs in this. The 3 changes thing really lends itself to a 'lock and key' style approach where you make a roadblock in the lategame that can ONLY be overcome with obscure preparations early on, like moving the seize point in cog of destiny to one of those isolated tiles in the shrine, removing the vanilla warp then hiding it somewhere unhinged like 19x. You guys wouldn't do that to each other...right?
When I saw Oswin getting trained, I hoped that the general promo was nuts, like granting fly or something. Also would be pretty funny for Hector's promo to *drop* his movement to 1, especially in tandem with Raisin's edit making him harder to rescue. In general, promo class changes strike me as strong contenders for this format because they're both delayed and expansive. Making a unit like Guy become a god doesn't matter because your opponent doesn't need that to win. In contrast, making every swordmaster have 100% crit means you can conspicuously do a weird thing in training Guy while still having an ace up your sleeve if your opponent trains him too. Alt idea: US has 2x effective damage, JP has 3x effective damage, so compromise on 6x effective damage.
The edits were pretty shrewd, when Mekkah mentioned the second edit's chapter I thought about it as well. The timing of the first edits of both is pretty great
Ooh, this is a fun idea. If it were me, I think I'd have done this: 1. Replace the chapter 14 mine in the village with a warp staff 2. Replace Priscilla with Pent in the chapter 15 village 3. Swap Pent's (Priscilla's) recruitment with Vaida's This would have put some very early time savers in areas that normally would be ignored in a race context. Works even better if the other player is ahead of me by at least a chapter, so they'd have to lose a lot of time going all the way back to chapter 14 if they want the early warp staff.
But the other player would have recruited Pent because all you need to do to recruit Priscilla is to have recruited Erk and make sure the village isn't destroyed.
@@JustinFranks-kl4xc Yeah if your going to pull something like this, you would need to swap him with someone you can easily miss, or have to go very far out of your way for. Priscilla isn't even far out of the way since you can just get Erk, then have lowen or something go to the village while your soloing the actual map with Hector and markus. Since anyone can go to that village and get her.
The early warp staff is a HUGE brain idea, but it's something you'd have to really prep for and do practice runs with. If there was something on the line, tho, that's the play.
I think it might have been worth it for Mekkah to reset BBD again to kill Ursula turn 1, since that would've saved so much combat by preventing reinforcements. Still, guessing she was moved was utterly brilliant, and Raisins clearly got way more messed up by Mekkah's edits than the other way around. I would honestly love to see what edits dondon might come up with for a race like this. Also, is there a bug in the overworld damage display? Canas's damage looks way too low a lot of the time.
Love this - one thing I can think of (which I actually thought Raisins had done until we got to his third change) is changing the Afa's Drops. I'm not sure how much they're used in a regular run or whether Mekkah just used them because he could, but having them drop a unit's growth rates by some significant percentage could be really interesting and pretty difficult to discover. I guess one flaw is that it could end up dropping a very low growth rate to a negative percentage and lead to the unit losing stats - not sure if this would be fun or just annoying as you can't really undo it once it's done.
Only ~1 hour in but seeing how much Raisins got thrown by Mekkah going to 17x has been incredible lol but he may also be getting blessed with a better Canas to make up for the psychic damage?? Can't wait to see where this goes... absolutely incredible idea for a race! EDIT - can't believe Mekkah also got a subtle secret change in by tripling Heath's Resistance growth too
If I was gonna go about this I think I would 1. Make the requirement to go to the Lloyd version of four fanged offense to be that Dart has to be promoted. 2.Make Renault give you boots in ch 19x 3. Make Boots give plus 8 move. This would be a good way for me to make a comeback if I’m behind. I would do some small planning to optimize a run with a 13 move hector which would give me an advantage over my opponent if they also got the boots. Then I would plan to make up the time I lost going for the boots by making my opponent play a longer map later on. My plan would fail if my opponent hid something in 19x or use Dart but ehhh we ball.
One thought that came to mind: Vulneraries and Elixers damage the user instead of healing them. Totally gives a "gacha" moment on a reset early and also forces people to work with actual healers later because Vulns and Elixers won't help for stuff like boss kills.
Some changes i thought of: 1. Reverse the condition for four fanged offense so you go to the linus version by default 2. Make gaiden chapters accepted automatically if you meet the criteria. This would make you have to go out of your way to not meet the requirements (e.g., kill all three caelin soldiers in ch. 17, play 30 turns of victory or death) 3. Change the victory condition for a chapter. E.g., make battle before dawn's condition "kill zephiel", forcing you to get jaffar out of the way. 4. Give lucius a good item, so that you need to recruit priscilla, then raven, then lucius in order to get it. 5. Change the promotion bonus for a class (e.g., promoting to wyvern lord reduces move to 5) or change attribute for a class (e.g., nomad troopers can fly) 6. Change Pent to a red unit in the desert chapter. 7. Have Vaida move in ch. 26 or make her unrecruitable in ch. 29, so that if they leave hector in the bottom corner alone they have to restart cog of destiny
I like this sabotage format, please do more if you are able. I would have done something like make the three enemies that guard the entrance to the castle in chapter 17 (the guys at 22:10 in Mekkah's perspective) all have max DEF which would have forced you to break through them with Erk. Or something like that where an innocuous regular enemy is buffed in a way that forces you to attack them differently.
1) Give Lowen perfect growths 2) Paladins can dance 3) Swap Ninian and Limstella Though these aren't very secretive changes, they would be hilarious. For example Marcus and Lowen dancing each other across a map to defeat a boss on turn 1.
I would change it so hitting B to not go to a Gaiden would make it accept the Gaiden instead, would make you replay the whole previous chapter or have to play an additional Gaiden map, either way would end in massive timeloss, probably multiple times if the opponent doesn't think about it. Would probably be tough to change though. Also, when hiding an item like the Warp, I would make it dropped by an enemy that usually is far off the normal route rather than already in a unit's inventory. Very fun idea!
Not knowing your changes, I would have done this: 1. Hector dies unless he moves at least one square per turn, no standing around for you. 2. Reverse Weapon Triangle to throw-off hit-rates 3. Remove Athos from Final Chapter, hope you planned for this while playing throughout the whole game. Nothing is more fun than messing with well established rules to throw people off. Edit: [Spoilers] Looks like you used one of them. Good on you.
Came up with 3 more, : 1. Lyn and Hector switch roles, i.e make Lyn the main lord. 2. Increase Lyn's base Con to 20 so she can't be rescued/carried while letting her actually use weapons without being weighed down. 3. In chapter 24/26 Unfulfilled Heart... Vaida aggros on turn 1.
@@MrEasterband Main reason they didn't go for this style was the whole "We want something that hurts ONLY our opponent, or something we can easily prepare for". Just "Hector must move" is annoying for both players without a planned advantage, same as Lyn being main lord or Lyn con 20. You'd just find a new way to ignore her while still deploying Hector through early game cuz he's genuinely a good unit. Vaida aggro you might come up with some plan for ig, which might make it a good idea? But your opponent will notice it the turn it happens, so it won't waste much time cuz they'll then plan something the same way you did. Vaida aggroing like, two or three turns before the end would cause a solid time loss if unplanned for, and can give a one-sided buff if you planned, so that could work.
Sick idea for a run. Would love to see more of this. If possible, having changes that impact more of the run would help me stay interested for the full run. F.E. I really liked the javelin 1 range change idea.
I would loooove to give Eliwood 200% growths, including movement. Something that happens right away and you can plan around - but the other person can’t (and wouldn’t notice from just looking at him). You can hopefully make it a chapter or two before they realize and by then it’s already so much more difficult to train him from level 1… meanwhile you’ve got the best carry in the game
Without watching to the end, I would do something incredibly silly with three edits. They would mostly only be seen at the end of the game, but would make the ending much easier for the player who knew about it. I would make Athos have base 0 magic, make the Luna tome have 0 hit, and make the Sol Katti have 99 might and crit. Basically, take away the easiest ways to kill the final boss but make Lyn ohko it. Would that make training Lyn worthwhile if you have to slow down so much to use her? Who knows, but I would find something like that funny.
SPOILER: Dang, Raisins with the DNF, yikes! GG, that was fun to watch. Wish I knew the first change from the beginning though, wanted to know when it would change.
CHANGE IDEA: A lesser used weapon gains the effect, “Negates enemy Defense”. Would make a lot of annoying bosses much quicker and would be an interesting alternative to Luna.
What I would have done to make battle before dawn more insane. Is swap Jafar and Nino. So the massive surge of enemies on the left get free reign to rush zephiel. Also for moving Ursula, should have put her in the left side treasure room instead of out in the open. So she would have an extra layer of protection with that door
Do remember you would have to play with those changes as well. As was mentioned the best change is one that makes trouble for someone who doesn’t know about it.
I was thinking the treasure room would be a good place for Ursula as well. You could put her against the wall next to Zephiel's room and plan to warp a longbow user to kill her. Makes it unlikely that the other person would have both the early hidden warp and a trained bow user capable of killing her. Also putting ursula in bolting range of zephiel is pretty brutal and would make the other person rely on RNG to get through if they aren't prepared to kill her turn 1
What an awesome idea I think I'm more inclined to make myself go faster rather than do something to slow down the other person. And I also want to minimize the chance of being found out as much as possible, so that they never even know what happened. Boring, I know. No exciting content out of that one. In this context one thing that comes to mind is to just put a couple of powerful infinite use Prf 1-2 range weapons (under a guise of a completely normal Hand axe/Jav let's say) for my carry and Hector really early in the game. Like if there's a village/chest that is along the way somewhere that you normally never go to, I'd put the weapons there. Would probably also fine tune them in such a way that they 2 shot instead of 1 shot to avoid suspicion. I think the amount of time you save in the prep screen and on never needing to shop could be very substantial. Also probably easier to spam End Turn in a couple of places if the weapon is infinite. Infinite use legendary weapons are my fetish, Radiant Dawn Endgame spoiled me, don't judge me okay! Edit: The Jerme/Kenneth thing was brutal, lol. I don't know much about FE6 draft racing but imagine doing the same thing there but with Illia/Saccae hahaha.
I was planning to do exactly that with the warp staff. I chose to put it in a starting inventory and not a village or a chest so that I never had a popup with "You got the WARP STAFF" showing up, hopefully I could conceal what I did for several chapters.
A larger scale version of this would be so good too. For example if you could pick one chapter to replace with a chapter from any other FE game. Would be a lot more effort though, but I'd love to see what would get changed. If I participated in this I would have tried changing a sieze location somewhere, or change the victory requirement for a chapter. Not in a way that's invisible to the player, because going that obscure would be just a little too lame, so if you move the sieze location you'd move the castle or throne too. Some "Talk to boss" with Nino would have been funny, or changing "protect throne" to "sieze throne."
If formula changes are allowed, things like "Attacks made with hit rates less than 80% always miss.", "WTA gives 100 Mt", or "The damage formula for magical attacks is just Weapon Mt + WTA/WTD" (instead of Weapon Mt + MAG - RES + WTA/WTD) could be interesting. "LCK does not give crit avoid" combined with "Hand axes have an iron rune effect" could be interesting. Your carries seem fine... until their hand axe(s) break(s) and they suddenly start facing crit for no apparent reason. Maybe combine it with cranking up the crit damage multiplier to [big number] or giving everything silencer? If you want to majorly warp the meta of the run, you could drop the hand axe buff and instead force both of you to use tactician stars and support bonuses to avoid facing instant death chances.
Heh, if I'd been racing you this time, I would have made these changes: 1) Runesword replaces Rienfleche on Uhai's Morph 2) Thor's Ire replaces Nini's Grace 3) Pent's Move Stat reduced to 0 :3
You know, I think I might have made Merlinus promote into a wyvern lord or something crazy like that, giving him absurd promotion bonuses along with it to really get him rolling as a combat unit. That might be hit on accident, but it would regardless be absolutely hilarious. Edit: Also Farina would have been very motivated to join Hector, and would have offered up 20 000 gold to join up with the army.
I wonder if you can use multiple points on one unit. Like, could you do something stupid like: 1. Make the Mani Katti infinite use. 2. Make the Mani Katti 1-2 range. 3. Give Lyn FE6 Karel growths.
if you guys do this again you should keep the changes from previous races. So if you do it multiple times the game would become a mess of random changes
Just started video... if its HHM, I'd guess the meanist thing would to either change the location of an item that is only available in one shop in the game to a different chapters shop or change how much the item gives upon use
I can't help but be reminded of the ancient Serenes Forest Forums member and member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, canasisback... He's back, people.
If completely softlocking your opponent is off the table, my best troll change would be to give the fire dragon 47 damage. Or to give myself a huge advantage: 1. Uber spear has unlimited durability 2. Uber spear is dropped in the mine village 3. Heath loses access to lances on promotion When my opponent sees me get the uber spear he'll reset to make sure he gets it. Then he'll go all-in with Heath and not be able to use it. This doesn't completely ruin him, of course, because he'll still have Marcus and some other valid units that will wreck with the uber spear, but it'll be funny and a huge advantage for me.
The main rule is "don't make the game extremely boring to watch/insanely unplayable", so all ur changes are ok. Heath losing access would cause a reset if noticed, perhaps a full chapter loss (to replay last chapter) if unnoticed, so a risky change that might not actually cause a problem but still could. If you don't all-in Heath despite the spear it'll be obvious to them tbh, though Heath with uber spear might actually be stronger on a 20 Heath than a 20/20 Heath without it lmaooo, you lose like 6 attack but gain mad res, while speed and hp about the same. And keep in mind, if you uber spear in mine village, a 20 unpromoted Heath is almost as good as a 20/20 Heath *from the beginning*! So you're really just making the game a speedrun game starting in mine village, except your opponent has 3 changes that might screw you over, and all of yours are already exhausted.
Some funny changes I think could be made Renault joins in Chapter 19X. He’s already in the ruins there, why not let him join early Nino has +100 in all growths. Make her grow insane much quicker The boss rush rooms in the final chapter all start open (except Nergal) All of Marcus’ growth are negative. The man is getting old, let him retire
@@Mekkkah yeah I caught that one I'll try to rewatch wait WHAT. Thanks for the response though! Really enjoyed this! Hoping this becomes a recurring series. EDIT: Oh rip, I can't count. Yes, I noticed all three, I just was confused for some reason
what would happen if you both made "the same change" like say with Athos, if he decided to turbo buff Athos, while you nerfed him. is there a priority or do they cancel each other out?
I really like this challenge but I feel like seeing each other's screens kinda ruins it. Obviously Raisins would've gone to 17x anyways since it was also apart of his strat, but had he not have had that idea (or Mekkah the Canas one), they likely would not have gone there outside of their own intuition to see if the other had made a change But that's just to make it more of a fair contest. Maybe it doesn't work in a content sense since the reactions were pretty funny
This mad me look into Rescue calculations because of the Hector Con thing Why tf is Mounted Rescue calculated like that?? You get *NERFED* for having more Con?? That's ridiculous! For reference, the exact calc is 25 - (unit's con) = Max Rescue. Heath at base 9 Con makes that 25-9=16, the new Promoted Hector Con. But Promoted Heath, with +1 Con, now has an Aid of 15.
@Mekkkah i suppose in that context it does, but it still seems kinda unintuitive if you ask me. Like, obv that wasn't my initial thought, and the general consensus for FE is that bigger number = better. So seeing bigger number being worse doesn't initially add up.
There's a bug in GBA where if you open the trade menu and don't do a trade then sometimes you don't get to canto (move again) as you normally would after trading. It's a bit inconsistent whether it procs or not (there must just be something about it I don't understand) and I thought I had memorized all the places where it could proc but apparently I got jumpscared by a canto bug in a new place.
His changes were in this order: 1: Hector's con +1. (Ch11) 2: Canas holds warp staff when you get him. (Ch17x) 3: Ursula in Battle Before Dawn is moved. (Ch28)
Honestly, you should make the changes 5. Maybe even make the goal shorter as well so it is less of a commitment to watch. Half the game maybe? But this idea is really really good!
Raisins forgetting that Canas is Mekkahs one true WAIFU, a crucial mistake
theres a format of Go called Hidden Move Go which is basically this. The game starts with three pieces on the board for each player, but its only revealed if a person tries to play in those spaces, if an illegal move would be made involving those spaces, or if a hidden move is involved in capturing pieces on the board. This reminds me a lot of that, and i really love this. I hope theres more races like this in the future
In Chapter 14 False Friends, Erik convinces Marcus to switch sides if he engages in combat with him.
I find it funny that with all the changes and the funny mind games, the deciding factors ended up being normal FE7 shenanigans.
Without watching the full video I would probably make 1 really stupid edit like "only geitz can damage the fire dragon"
Mekkah and Raisins mentioned a loose rule of 1 edit = "change one thing about one thing". In order to make Geitz be the only fire dragon damage dealer, Luna needs to be nerfed, the fire dragon needs +def and +res, and Geitz needs a damage bonus that only he can leverage, perhaps a prf that ignores defense. That's minimum 4 edits.
@@msterforks I made the comment before they clarified that was the rule, so in that case you would just need to make it hard to kill with anyone else. Proposed change
1. Remove Luna from the game
2. Remove dragon typing from the dragon(so all the effective weapons don't work)
3. Give geitz 80 attack or something dumb
That would make it so every other character would do chip damage at best
It would probably be better to make it so Karel or Karla are your dragon killer though since it takes much more effort to recruit them
@@Meowmers1219 There are ways to beat the fire dragon that don't rely on Luna or effective weaponry. We've already seen one in the video, the rex pasta with filla's might. A trained 20/20 Hector does 11 * 2 with the basilikos on average, +10 * 2 with filla's might. The ending might be a slow, rescue drop heal snooze fest, but hardly a large time loss compared to what's actually possible with 3 edits.
@@msterforks That's running under the assumption that you know what the changes are in advance though. There are plenty of races I've seen where people drop the Rex pasta or don't train their Hector to 20/20
@@Meowmers1219 Dropping the S-rank weapons is a chapter reset, which isn't that big of a deal for three edits (eg Mekkah's second edit probably caused comparable time loss).
Mekkah's 20/5 Hector with basilikos could still deal damage to the fire dragon, as could Athos with Forblaze.
And all of this is the worst case scenario. The big tip off is in ch26 when the shaman doesn't drop a Luna tome. Luna's only purpose in a conventional race setting is for Athos and the final chapter, so this should be a big tell that players need to make extra preps in advance.
EDIT: The tell can come as early as ch22, which is the most unfortunate outcome. If the players notice that Luna isn't dropped on that chapter, they might pivot into getting Filla's might.
I think if I was going to do this challenge, my secret addition would be to replace Karel with FE6 Karel's growths and portrait. Everyone always goes for Harken, so the other player's growing confusion at your route to get Karel would be a wonderful tease - with an amusing and entertaining payoff.
Those are the best kind of changes. Ones that you have to go out of your way for and would never randomly wander into on accident.
Its why the warp staff on Canas was a bad play, because if your in the lead going for him is a smart play long term because of how quick the map can be. I would have put that warp staff in a very far out of the way village that mekkah would have skipped out on
the thing is that there isn't a reason to go to the gaiden, raisins just got unlucky
@@bibohbi-br9gj Yeah, I bet if the race was neck and neck at that point mekkah would more then likely have skipped it since it would lose him to much time. He probably did it because of his athos sabotage, and him being far enough in the lead where he could get away with the detour
@@bibohbi-br9gj I suppose the weakness of this format is that nobody sabotaged the other - they just hid buffs that only they knew how to find.
@@SuperCosmicSpaceMagnetI would say that barring the warp staff on canas, everything else was very much sabotage LOL. Granted, that’s what we signed up to see, cuz that’s funnier.
Starting this video praying that someone gives Oswin +10 move
I like some of the changes that were made. I got a few ideas if I was playing.
1st change: Changing the order of the doors opening in Final. Normally the doors will open from bottom right, top left, etc. Making you plan out your next move, but we keep the first door the same as to throw off the other player off by opening a different door instead of the top left one with some magic users.
2nd change: Change the item from Village 2 in Four-Fanged Offense (Lloyd version) out with Boots. They will never see this coming as you would normally just kill Lloyd and be done with the level. But going out of your way to get to the second village (the one that's the farther from you) will cost time but early boots is good to have alongside your second boots from BBD. The silence staff is ok but not for this race.
3rd change: Move the boss Oleg, to the top left corner of the map. Simple change that you might find right away if you get jumpscared by him. Just making you waste time going to the other side of the map, only for you to say "where did the boss go?" Idk if placing a thief on either of the 2 top left starting position will allow you to see him at the start of the map.
What Mekkah really changed in the ROM is cause enemies to crit when Raisins says “don’t crit”
This was incredibly fun to watch. It did feel like the game had it out for Raisins in the first half. It’s really fun watching you both adjust strategies to countermove the changes.
This was SO much fun, can't wait for the next one! Here are some changes I would have done:
1) Make killing Raven in Ch17 a Game Over. If Marcus is gonna be banned from then on and Hector has to carry that chapter, prepare yourself so you have to run away from him, and it would make a very funny moment for the opponent to get a Game Over xD
2) Swap the Boots chest with the Hammerne staff from the village in Ch26. If the opponent forgets to check the village, no Boots! Not something game-breaking, but annoying at the least if they don't train a flyer.
3) Give Limstella an Iron Rune. That way you have to prepare yourself with Hawkeye or another carry and you bring your Brave weapons. If the opponent brings only Killers, they're screwed!
I had a feeling a silly Athos change (read: making luna athos unviable in some form) would be high priority, but also knew that it would likely force the one who knew about the change to alter their overall strats to be able to account for it, potentially making it too easy to give away given the temptation for the change. So the gaiden selection basically confirmed it for me even before the reveal from Mekkah.
…I was not expecting the warp staff in the inventory placed by raisins. I lost my goddamn mind and started cackling at work. Fucking peak comedy, you two are really perfect partners for these things.
edit: Holy SHIT that Pale Flower of Darkness change was evil. I know you gave an out by being able to replay the previous chapter but damn LOL. If you ever do this again, y’all are gonna have to make sure it doesnt turn into a constant battle of one-upping one another like how the carlsagan v grandpoobear mario maker challenges did. Or maybe you do…for, you know, the content.
The hardest part will be the hidden item meta if it evolves. Where the heck can we even place them stealthily?
@@OriginalRaisins You can put items in tutorial houses, adding that to the visit event in FE builder fits the criteria of just being 1 edit
@@dontstealmydiamondsv3156 True, but then there's a big conspicuous notification that I got the item. Maybe Mekkah doesn't look at my screen as much as I think he does, though.
@@OriginalRaisins Something to consider with hiding changes made is intentionally sandbagging. "Oh no I had a really bad chapter 13, and everyones ahead of me by a chapter :((( btw I swapped the mine village with a warpstaff :)))"
Off the top of my head I'd have a stationary boss move. Easy to account for but would catch the other player by surprise.
Alternately, random berserk staff.
Dude, I had the idea earlier in the race of swapping the conditions of Pale Flower and secretly getting Exp on Dorcas/Bartre. I thought it would be too big a change, especially compared to changing a base stat or putting an item in a unit's inventory. I'm glad you thought of it and put it in!
Can't believe they made a passing comment in one of the Wheel % videos into an actual race, I'm all here for it
Mekkah putting the Rescue staff on the 1-magic Athos
Look he gets a minimum staff range of 5, it can be handy!
Using Canas is a pretty good failsafe for general Fire Dragon related shenanigans. Taking away Athos' dark rank or nerfing Luna doesn't help too much since he still has two other functional weapons even if they're not completely busted. Maybe another funny Athos edit is -3 HP.
I would have given a random reinforcement the vaida spear
javelins being devil weapons would have been really funny.
There are so many ways to flat out end your opponent's runs in this. The 3 changes thing really lends itself to a 'lock and key' style approach where you make a roadblock in the lategame that can ONLY be overcome with obscure preparations early on, like moving the seize point in cog of destiny to one of those isolated tiles in the shrine, removing the vanilla warp then hiding it somewhere unhinged like 19x. You guys wouldn't do that to each other...right?
When I saw Oswin getting trained, I hoped that the general promo was nuts, like granting fly or something. Also would be pretty funny for Hector's promo to *drop* his movement to 1, especially in tandem with Raisin's edit making him harder to rescue.
In general, promo class changes strike me as strong contenders for this format because they're both delayed and expansive. Making a unit like Guy become a god doesn't matter because your opponent doesn't need that to win. In contrast, making every swordmaster have 100% crit means you can conspicuously do a weird thing in training Guy while still having an ace up your sleeve if your opponent trains him too.
Alt idea: US has 2x effective damage, JP has 3x effective damage, so compromise on 6x effective damage.
I love both of these ideas
The edits were pretty shrewd, when Mekkah mentioned the second edit's chapter I thought about it as well. The timing of the first edits of both is pretty great
Ooh, this is a fun idea. If it were me, I think I'd have done this:
1. Replace the chapter 14 mine in the village with a warp staff
2. Replace Priscilla with Pent in the chapter 15 village
3. Swap Pent's (Priscilla's) recruitment with Vaida's
This would have put some very early time savers in areas that normally would be ignored in a race context. Works even better if the other player is ahead of me by at least a chapter, so they'd have to lose a lot of time going all the way back to chapter 14 if they want the early warp staff.
But the other player would have recruited Pent because all you need to do to recruit Priscilla is to have recruited Erk and make sure the village isn't destroyed.
@@JustinFranks-kl4xc Yeah if your going to pull something like this, you would need to swap him with someone you can easily miss, or have to go very far out of your way for. Priscilla isn't even far out of the way since you can just get Erk, then have lowen or something go to the village while your soloing the actual map with Hector and markus.
Since anyone can go to that village and get her.
The early warp staff is a HUGE brain idea, but it's something you'd have to really prep for and do practice runs with. If there was something on the line, tho, that's the play.
I think it might have been worth it for Mekkah to reset BBD again to kill Ursula turn 1, since that would've saved so much combat by preventing reinforcements. Still, guessing she was moved was utterly brilliant, and Raisins clearly got way more messed up by Mekkah's edits than the other way around.
I would honestly love to see what edits dondon might come up with for a race like this.
Also, is there a bug in the overworld damage display? Canas's damage looks way too low a lot of the time.
Canas always gets underestimated. Maybe Luna or Nini's Grace messed it up idk
Omg the overworld battle forecast has been tripping me up this entire time. It's so inconsistently inaccurate.
Here's a mildly annoying, but not necessarily effective, change: add +3 Might to Flametongue.
Love this - one thing I can think of (which I actually thought Raisins had done until we got to his third change) is changing the Afa's Drops. I'm not sure how much they're used in a regular run or whether Mekkah just used them because he could, but having them drop a unit's growth rates by some significant percentage could be really interesting and pretty difficult to discover. I guess one flaw is that it could end up dropping a very low growth rate to a negative percentage and lead to the unit losing stats - not sure if this would be fun or just annoying as you can't really undo it once it's done.
Only ~1 hour in but seeing how much Raisins got thrown by Mekkah going to 17x has been incredible lol but he may also be getting blessed with a better Canas to make up for the psychic damage?? Can't wait to see where this goes... absolutely incredible idea for a race!
EDIT - can't believe Mekkah also got a subtle secret change in by tripling Heath's Resistance growth too
damn mekkah out here with the content barrage, very nice
As a actual canas carry believer, this was quite shocking
This is such a cool video idea!! I’d loved to see more like this in future. Only if you both enjoyed it, though.
Once I saw you randomly give Dorcas EXP I had a feeling I knew what you did.
If I was gonna go about this I think I would
1. Make the requirement to go to the Lloyd version of four fanged offense to be that Dart has to be promoted.
2.Make Renault give you boots in ch 19x
3. Make Boots give plus 8 move.
This would be a good way for me to make a comeback if I’m behind. I would do some small planning to optimize a run with a 13 move hector which would give me an advantage over my opponent if they also got the boots. Then I would plan to make up the time I lost going for the boots by making my opponent play a longer map later on. My plan would fail if my opponent hid something in 19x or use Dart but ehhh we ball.
One thought that came to mind: Vulneraries and Elixers damage the user instead of healing them. Totally gives a "gacha" moment on a reset early and also forces people to work with actual healers later because Vulns and Elixers won't help for stuff like boss kills.
Some changes i thought of:
1. Reverse the condition for four fanged offense so you go to the linus version by default
2. Make gaiden chapters accepted automatically if you meet the criteria. This would make you have to go out of your way to not meet the requirements (e.g., kill all three caelin soldiers in ch. 17, play 30 turns of victory or death)
3. Change the victory condition for a chapter. E.g., make battle before dawn's condition "kill zephiel", forcing you to get jaffar out of the way.
4. Give lucius a good item, so that you need to recruit priscilla, then raven, then lucius in order to get it.
5. Change the promotion bonus for a class (e.g., promoting to wyvern lord reduces move to 5) or change attribute for a class (e.g., nomad troopers can fly)
6. Change Pent to a red unit in the desert chapter.
7. Have Vaida move in ch. 26 or make her unrecruitable in ch. 29, so that if they leave hector in the bottom corner alone they have to restart cog of destiny
I wish there were more people, like 4.
I like this sabotage format, please do more if you are able.
I would have done something like make the three enemies that guard the entrance to the castle in chapter 17 (the guys at 22:10 in Mekkah's perspective) all have max DEF which would have forced you to break through them with Erk. Or something like that where an innocuous regular enemy is buffed in a way that forces you to attack them differently.
I can't wait to see how creative these edits get if these continue
The hidden items meta will have to evolve.
1) Give Lowen perfect growths
2) Paladins can dance
3) Swap Ninian and Limstella
Though these aren't very secretive changes, they would be hilarious. For example Marcus and Lowen dancing each other across a map to defeat a boss on turn 1.
You two sound so similar to eachother that without headphones I had no idea who was talking rn
I would change it so hitting B to not go to a Gaiden would make it accept the Gaiden instead, would make you replay the whole previous chapter or have to play an additional Gaiden map, either way would end in massive timeloss, probably multiple times if the opponent doesn't think about it. Would probably be tough to change though. Also, when hiding an item like the Warp, I would make it dropped by an enemy that usually is far off the normal route rather than already in a unit's inventory. Very fun idea!
Not knowing your changes, I would have done this:
1. Hector dies unless he moves at least one square per turn, no standing around for you.
2. Reverse Weapon Triangle to throw-off hit-rates
3. Remove Athos from Final Chapter, hope you planned for this while playing throughout the whole game.
Nothing is more fun than messing with well established rules to throw people off.
Edit: [Spoilers] Looks like you used one of them. Good on you.
Came up with 3 more, :
1. Lyn and Hector switch roles, i.e make Lyn the main lord.
2. Increase Lyn's base Con to 20 so she can't be rescued/carried while letting her actually use weapons without being weighed down.
3. In chapter 24/26 Unfulfilled Heart... Vaida aggros on turn 1.
@@MrEasterband Main reason they didn't go for this style was the whole "We want something that hurts ONLY our opponent, or something we can easily prepare for". Just "Hector must move" is annoying for both players without a planned advantage, same as Lyn being main lord or Lyn con 20. You'd just find a new way to ignore her while still deploying Hector through early game cuz he's genuinely a good unit. Vaida aggro you might come up with some plan for ig, which might make it a good idea? But your opponent will notice it the turn it happens, so it won't waste much time cuz they'll then plan something the same way you did.
Vaida aggroing like, two or three turns before the end would cause a solid time loss if unplanned for, and can give a one-sided buff if you planned, so that could work.
Sick idea for a run. Would love to see more of this. If possible, having changes that impact more of the run would help me stay interested for the full run. F.E. I really liked the javelin 1 range change idea.
I would loooove to give Eliwood 200% growths, including movement. Something that happens right away and you can plan around - but the other person can’t (and wouldn’t notice from just looking at him). You can hopefully make it a chapter or two before they realize and by then it’s already so much more difficult to train him from level 1… meanwhile you’ve got the best carry in the game
Mekkahs changes were savage.
Without watching to the end, I would do something incredibly silly with three edits. They would mostly only be seen at the end of the game, but would make the ending much easier for the player who knew about it. I would make Athos have base 0 magic, make the Luna tome have 0 hit, and make the Sol Katti have 99 might and crit. Basically, take away the easiest ways to kill the final boss but make Lyn ohko it. Would that make training Lyn worthwhile if you have to slow down so much to use her? Who knows, but I would find something like that funny.
It nice to see Mekkah use Canas, one of my favourite characters in the game.
SPOILER:
Dang, Raisins with the DNF, yikes! GG, that was fun to watch. Wish I knew the first change from the beginning though, wanted to know when it would change.
CHANGE IDEA: A lesser used weapon gains the effect, “Negates enemy Defense”.
Would make a lot of annoying bosses much quicker and would be an interesting alternative to Luna.
Slim sword or Shortbow
I’d do it for a weapon with the same name as another, sorta like the superspear, so the other player is less likely to notice
Making bows 1-2 range would be funny and also destroy the muscle memory of everyone playing. Also it would make rebecca good i swear
What I would have done to make battle before dawn more insane. Is swap Jafar and Nino. So the massive surge of enemies on the left get free reign to rush zephiel.
Also for moving Ursula, should have put her in the left side treasure room instead of out in the open. So she would have an extra layer of protection with that door
Do remember you would have to play with those changes as well. As was mentioned the best change is one that makes trouble for someone who doesn’t know about it.
I was thinking the treasure room would be a good place for Ursula as well. You could put her against the wall next to Zephiel's room and plan to warp a longbow user to kill her. Makes it unlikely that the other person would have both the early hidden warp and a trained bow user capable of killing her.
Also putting ursula in bolting range of zephiel is pretty brutal and would make the other person rely on RNG to get through if they aren't prepared to kill her turn 1
This was awesome, hope to see more of these!
What an awesome idea
I think I'm more inclined to make myself go faster rather than do something to slow down the other person. And I also want to minimize the chance of being found out as much as possible, so that they never even know what happened. Boring, I know. No exciting content out of that one.
In this context one thing that comes to mind is to just put a couple of powerful infinite use Prf 1-2 range weapons (under a guise of a completely normal Hand axe/Jav let's say) for my carry and Hector really early in the game. Like if there's a village/chest that is along the way somewhere that you normally never go to, I'd put the weapons there. Would probably also fine tune them in such a way that they 2 shot instead of 1 shot to avoid suspicion. I think the amount of time you save in the prep screen and on never needing to shop could be very substantial. Also probably easier to spam End Turn in a couple of places if the weapon is infinite. Infinite use legendary weapons are my fetish, Radiant Dawn Endgame spoiled me, don't judge me okay!
Edit: The Jerme/Kenneth thing was brutal, lol. I don't know much about FE6 draft racing but imagine doing the same thing there but with Illia/Saccae hahaha.
I was planning to do exactly that with the warp staff. I chose to put it in a starting inventory and not a village or a chest so that I never had a popup with "You got the WARP STAFF" showing up, hopefully I could conceal what I did for several chapters.
A larger scale version of this would be so good too. For example if you could pick one chapter to replace with a chapter from any other FE game. Would be a lot more effort though, but I'd love to see what would get changed.
If I participated in this I would have tried changing a sieze location somewhere, or change the victory requirement for a chapter. Not in a way that's invisible to the player, because going that obscure would be just a little too lame, so if you move the sieze location you'd move the castle or throne too. Some "Talk to boss" with Nino would have been funny, or changing "protect throne" to "sieze throne."
Oh this is a wonderful concept :D
If formula changes are allowed, things like "Attacks made with hit rates less than 80% always miss.", "WTA gives 100 Mt", or "The damage formula for magical attacks is just Weapon Mt + WTA/WTD" (instead of Weapon Mt + MAG - RES + WTA/WTD) could be interesting.
"LCK does not give crit avoid" combined with "Hand axes have an iron rune effect" could be interesting. Your carries seem fine... until their hand axe(s) break(s) and they suddenly start facing crit for no apparent reason. Maybe combine it with cranking up the crit damage multiplier to [big number] or giving everything silencer? If you want to majorly warp the meta of the run, you could drop the hand axe buff and instead force both of you to use tactician stars and support bonuses to avoid facing instant death chances.
That was super entertaining to watch. Please more of this, perhaps for FE6 or 8?
I think itd be funny if one of the changes was so merlinus had like hectors stay growths and could fight once he promotes. Give glory to my man
Heh, if I'd been racing you this time, I would have made these changes:
1) Runesword replaces Rienfleche on Uhai's Morph
2) Thor's Ire replaces Nini's Grace
3) Pent's Move Stat reduced to 0
:3
Such a cool concept!
You know, I think I might have made Merlinus promote into a wyvern lord or something crazy like that, giving him absurd promotion bonuses along with it to really get him rolling as a combat unit. That might be hit on accident, but it would regardless be absolutely hilarious.
Edit: Also Farina would have been very motivated to join Hector, and would have offered up 20 000 gold to join up with the army.
This was super entertaining
This is just a Canas wheel% in disguise
This sounds really funny
great concept.
I think that I would have done:
1) move the warp to canas
2) give canas a rank staves on promo
3) infinite range warp
Then just skip half the game
Make bows effective against every class~ For the sole reason that it would make Rebecca do damage~
This is the funniest idea ever.
I wonder if you can use multiple points on one unit. Like, could you do something stupid like:
1. Make the Mani Katti infinite use.
2. Make the Mani Katti 1-2 range.
3. Give Lyn FE6 Karel growths.
Mekkah is CHEATING
jk jk jk
if you guys do this again you should keep the changes from previous races. So if you do it multiple times the game would become a mess of random changes
If you do this in sacred stones then make joshua's coin toss an actual 50/50 and if he gets heads he just kills natasha lol
What a silly concept. Heck yeah
change a normally useful village into a scripted scene where a red unit does a promotion that never ends forcing you to reset the chapter
Just started video... if its HHM, I'd guess the meanist thing would to either change the location of an item that is only available in one shop in the game to a different chapters shop or change how much the item gives upon use
Something like make Geitz a recruitable fire dragon.
I can't help but be reminded of the ancient Serenes Forest Forums member and member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, canasisback... He's back, people.
If completely softlocking your opponent is off the table, my best troll change would be to give the fire dragon 47 damage.
Or to give myself a huge advantage:
1. Uber spear has unlimited durability
2. Uber spear is dropped in the mine village
3. Heath loses access to lances on promotion
When my opponent sees me get the uber spear he'll reset to make sure he gets it. Then he'll go all-in with Heath and not be able to use it. This doesn't completely ruin him, of course, because he'll still have Marcus and some other valid units that will wreck with the uber spear, but it'll be funny and a huge advantage for me.
The main rule is "don't make the game extremely boring to watch/insanely unplayable", so all ur changes are ok. Heath losing access would cause a reset if noticed, perhaps a full chapter loss (to replay last chapter) if unnoticed, so a risky change that might not actually cause a problem but still could. If you don't all-in Heath despite the spear it'll be obvious to them tbh, though Heath with uber spear might actually be stronger on a 20 Heath than a 20/20 Heath without it lmaooo, you lose like 6 attack but gain mad res, while speed and hp about the same. And keep in mind, if you uber spear in mine village, a 20 unpromoted Heath is almost as good as a 20/20 Heath *from the beginning*!
So you're really just making the game a speedrun game starting in mine village, except your opponent has 3 changes that might screw you over, and all of yours are already exhausted.
Some funny changes I think could be made
Renault joins in Chapter 19X. He’s already in the ruins there, why not let him join early
Nino has +100 in all growths. Make her grow insane much quicker
The boss rush rooms in the final chapter all start open (except Nergal)
All of Marcus’ growth are negative. The man is getting old, let him retire
Has Rasins ever won one of these races lol I can’t remember him ever doing so
Yeah he's won several!
Man, 33:27 and onward had me rolling in tears. Do promoted fliers get les aid when rescuing? I've seen it come up in 2 races now
They get more Con. Mounted aid/con formula is 25/Con (male) or 20/Con (female)
Does anybody have timestamps for all the reveals? I can't find Mekkah's third.
wait WHAT is the last one. Crazed Brain is the 2nd one. The first one is really hard to miss so I assume you saw that one.
@@Mekkkah yeah I caught that one
I'll try to rewatch wait WHAT. Thanks for the response though! Really enjoyed this! Hoping this becomes a recurring series.
EDIT: Oh rip, I can't count. Yes, I noticed all three, I just was confused for some reason
2:37:53 if you just want to see what all the edits are
I would have made the boss of chapter 11 Nergal
ok but then how do you beat him
what would happen if you both made "the same change" like say with Athos, if he decided to turbo buff Athos, while you nerfed him. is there a priority or do they cancel each other out?
If there's a conflicting or overlapping change, Retina would see, and ask us both to change that one.
I really like this challenge but I feel like seeing each other's screens kinda ruins it. Obviously Raisins would've gone to 17x anyways since it was also apart of his strat, but had he not have had that idea (or Mekkah the Canas one), they likely would not have gone there outside of their own intuition to see if the other had made a change
But that's just to make it more of a fair contest. Maybe it doesn't work in a content sense since the reactions were pretty funny
Could Raisins have just killed Serra instead of feeding Dorcas exp?
I needed to have at least 1 exp on Dorcas/Bartre/ etc and I figured hitting would just do it.
Fucking hilarious 😂😂😂
This mad me look into Rescue calculations because of the Hector Con thing
Why tf is Mounted Rescue calculated like that?? You get *NERFED* for having more Con?? That's ridiculous!
For reference, the exact calc is 25 - (unit's con) = Max Rescue. Heath at base 9 Con makes that 25-9=16, the new Promoted Hector Con. But Promoted Heath, with +1 Con, now has an Aid of 15.
The idea is that the unit takes up space/capacity on the mount so there's less room for their rescuee. I think it makes sense!
@Mekkkah i suppose in that context it does, but it still seems kinda unintuitive if you ask me.
Like, obv that wasn't my initial thought, and the general consensus for FE is that bigger number = better. So seeing bigger number being worse doesn't initially add up.
Could someone explain to me what „I canto bugged“ means?
There's a bug in GBA where if you open the trade menu and don't do a trade then sometimes you don't get to canto (move again) as you normally would after trading.
It's a bit inconsistent whether it procs or not (there must just be something about it I don't understand) and I thought I had memorized all the places where it could proc but apparently I got jumpscared by a canto bug in a new place.
I think as long as one item goes to another person's inventory it cannot proc but not 100% sure.
@@Mekkkah It's a pretty mysterious bug. I do definitely know that when I proc'd it I didn't trade. 24:25
I understand now, thank you! I can see how that could become a problem haha
What was Raisin's third edit? I think I missed it.
His changes were in this order:
1: Hector's con +1. (Ch11)
2: Canas holds warp staff when you get him. (Ch17x)
3: Ursula in Battle Before Dawn is moved. (Ch28)
@@TaismoFanBoy Ursula was the one I was forgetting. Thanks.
Honestly, you should make the changes 5. Maybe even make the goal shorter as well so it is less of a commitment to watch. Half the game maybe?
But this idea is really really good!
Just watch it in sections lol or up the playback speed slightly
First