Andromeda was ok, I played it and liked it. Not a bad game on it'd own. With that said, it does not even come close to the trilogy(with ALL dlc), it was by far my favorite game in the last 10 years. I must of played through all 3 at least 15 times to see how the story changed with different decisions and also to get that "perfect" play through you wanted for the next game. If they do make another one.... I'd love to see a prequel of the First Contact Turian War. Probly won't happen since Andromeda was a huge let down and EA probly doesn't care cause they tons of money off half assed games and DLC.
Throughout the ENTIRE series we see the Asari vessel do nothing more than float around. We never see the gigantic weapon system fire! Even during the most climactic space battle when we need it most!
If you actually look at it's shape it's design really does limit it's max firepower as in the longest part of the ship rather than a mass effect kinetic gun, there is a hole.
Unless the hole IS the main weapon and they kinda drop projectiles into it and accelerate them out, which would let them hurl around some pretty big projectiles, kinda like the Mass Drivers the Centauri used in B5 for the bombing of Narn
To be honest, it is surprising they never tried to put out some squad tactics shooters or strategy games, as also ship to ship combat games. That universe is so rich and they instead wasted it all to try to somewhat reboot the franchise. Yes, I am still pissed.
I really wish we had detailed ship lore for Mass Effect, because I seriously love the space combat in this franchise. Like, in Mass Effect, I see potential for the cool parts of Star Wars space combat, without the stupid parts of Star Wars space combat.
The best thing about Mass Effect to me is the scale of things, especialy in ME3. In one of first missions you do you talk to a turism general who says somthing like: the first Day of the reaper invasion 2 million died on Palavin, 3 million the next day. And this was only one of thousends of planets in the galaxy. It puts the war in perspective. In many outher sci-fi universes they call it a catastrofy if 100 die.
@Half life 3 Keep in mind that those were the casualties of a single planet with a population of 6 billion. It would be considered devastating if 5 million people died in a war in only 2 days and our planet has 7 billion people on it. That's happening across Turian space, not just that one planet, and this is after one of their largest colonies was wiped out by the reapers to send a message. Heck at that rate of loss, Palavan would be wiped out in less than a year.
The UNSC is losing planets and billions by the day in Halo, so they don't really consider that a catastrophe. They consider that lucky that they haven't lost as many as they could have.
@@starhammer5247 Well the Reaper's genocide follows a different pattern than the Covenant, so that's kinda comparing apples to oranges. They actually want the population alive for harvesting and the world still habitable for the next cycle.
It's a shame the game never showed how the Alliance sort of danced around the naval treaty limiting their dreadnoughts by building like sized vessels and using them as carriers. IIRC, the Codex alludes that the Alliance is the only race to utilize such a ship type. It would've been neat to see such a ship in action in some way as Mass Effect naval doctrine seems akin to pre-WWII battleship reliance.
Carriers aren't quite as useful in ME as they are in our own world for two reasons. GARDIAN point defense lasers. Those things have one-hundred percent accuracy at the start of a battle, meaning any fighter attack is going to suffer heavy casualties before they get close enough to launch torpedoes. The other reason is that your strike craft's heat emissions could be traced back to the carrier, and with FTL drives, it doesn't matter how far away the carrier is or what it's hiding behind. You can just jump to their position and destroy them at close range.
Pity when it comes to the Mass Effect universe (or arguably any other Sci-Fi content), there's a great deal of good lore that we never actually see implemented in-game.
Wich makes the fact that the third game sets fire to the setting all the worse. I really wished there'd be an eventual game dedicated to the inevitable war between the Batarians and the Citadel.
Not really. If you compare ME warship tonnage per a citizen to our own world you would get a similar number. Also, what echarts ladder did not stated was that in order to circumvent threaty requirements, humans were the first to build carrier vessels (yes this is the reference to US Navy's response to Washington Naval Treaty), and other species did the same later on
Even if they all DID. It wouldn't have much mattered when the Reapers came. Since its like a 4 vs 1 ratio to effectively best a Reaper dreadnaught with Council counterparts. An keep in mind thats while the rest of the Council fleets engaged with the rest of the Reaper fleet which is almost as much trouble as the Reaper Capitals.
That's not quite true. The Washington naval treaty in fact did limit aircraft carrier construction as well as battleship construction. In fact carrier tonnage was much more limited than battleship tonnage under WNT restrictions. CV's where not created to circumvent the treaty, and they weren't first made by the USN either. In fact it was the British that completed the first true aircraft carrier
@@robertagu5533 true, reapers outgun and outclass council ships by a fairly large margin but worse still is they effectively outnumber them by potentially 100-1 (they are just spread out). I love how the mass effect universe straight up ignores it's 1st rule of space combat in 3, "Never fire directly at a garden world" as any misses hit the planet with insane force, and they missed alot, earth would be a wasteland from the misses alone. Mass effect council ruled space combat always is in favour of the defender (unless attacker just wants you all dead). Just keep the planet behind you and they aren't allowed to fire.
It's probably worth mentioning that the systems alliance circumvented the treaty limiting dreadnaughts by building similarly sized and equally, if not more, heavily armed fleet carriers. Other spieces in the council tended to use mobile air bases like you see on palavens moon in ME3. It's the only reason the turians found the systems alliance a military rivial even before humanity joined the council. That and the fact the systems alliance doesn't use attrition based warfare like the turians and krogan do.
We were not a military rival. We destroyed two small patrol fleets using overwhelming numbers and some tricks they hadn't seen before. We never faced a proper Turian battle fleet. At the start of the First Contact War, we had two hundred ships split into two fleets. The Turians had over two thousand, separated into at least twenty eight fleets. The largest human colony has a population of ten million. The largest Turian colony we find has a population of over a billion. If the Turians wanted to, they could have steamrolled us. Their doctrine of attrition and total war would have bled us dry long before we beat them.
I really feel like they took inspiration from stuff like the Washington and London naval treaties for the Dreadnought numbers, makes it even funnier when the Systems Alliance just built shit loads of carriers
I really wish they'd gone more into depth about Mass Effect's warships and each species' designs, etc. So many ship designs, but we never get to do into any depth about them. Armaments, defensive systems, shield capacity, fuel, range, etc. I'd love to see more of these videos from you in the future! I love how you break stuff down. Makes it so much more interesting than it already is!
Good video mass effect is definitely one of my favorite science fiction series I do hope you do more videos about the universe because mass effect has a lot of lore and overall it is an amazing universe
What bothers me about mass effect 3 is the use of the treaty of farixen with the quarians because, like the Batarians and Geth, these not being part of the council do not have to comply with that treaty
There was something that always bothered me after Mass Effect 2, during the suicide mission through the Omega 4 Relay, the Normandy uses a pair of Thanix cannons (if the upgrade is researched) to destroy the Collector cruiser in 2 shots, but out of no-where, these weapons don’t seem to make an appearance ever again, considering that Thanix cannons were built for many fleets including on Dreadnoughts and were even mounted on the Quarian Liveships, you’d think they would be still used or seen in someway considering the damage they dish out, it be a safe bet that 5 Dreadnaught based Thanix cannons firing at one Sovereign class Reaper would probably cripple or destroy it.
If I remember correctly, the Thanix was an execellent weapon, but was only practical to the Milky Way forces in smaller versions. I gun big enough for a Dreadnought did not work. If you look at the final battle, there are many Thanix canons firing (Light blue streams), but mainly from the fighters/frigates. They also changed the look of it from ME2 to ME3, in the latter the animation became more of a light blue stream (comparing to the Reapers red stream) rather than the more noticeable (And cooler!) animation in ME2.
Nope, Dreadnoughts have no issue using Thanix cannons, and retrofitting for this weapon had already started before the Reaper Invasion. The Volus even built a dreadnought that solely used Thanix cannons, which you can acquire in ME3.
I'm all about the fast, maneuverable, and highly versatile strike craft(gunships, corvettes, light cruisers, etc.). That being said, I can understand the importance of dreadnoughts within a scifi franchise. It also helps that with the element zero core, ships can be highly maneuverable for their size.
Bellator Class SSD vs. Resurgent Class SD Nebula Class SD vs. Pellaeon Class SD (or any comparable SD) Resurgent Class SD vs MC85 Cruiser (Raddus) 18th Attempt
The Resurgent would demolish the Raddus, but mostly because the New Republic desecrated the ship by severely limiting the weaponry on board. Now a MC85 at full armament and potential that would be a nice matchup
One thing I really like about Mass effect's approach to classifying ships is the fact that the devs took the time to come up with the Treaty of Farixen, which is also more than likely the ENTIRE lore reason why the Citadel races all design their ships along similar guidelines: In order to regulate the ships that people are building, you first have to define and classify them. A perfect example of this is the real life London Naval Treaty which was created after the First World War. Before then nations basically just built and classified ships however they felt was best, but the treaty laid out strict guidelines for how ships should be classified. It's chiefly known for redefining the split between light and heavy cruisers. Before the treaty a light cruiser was just a ship large enough to be called a cruiser that had relatively light armor, while a heavy cruiser was, well, heavier. The treaty changed that to the following: Light cruisers were to be considered ships larger that destroyers but of no more than 10,000 tons in displacement with a main battery caliber of no more than 6.1 inches; while heavy cruisers had the same tonnage restrictions but a caliber of no less than 6.1 inches, and no more than 8 inches. To say that this treaty and its successors, the two Washington Naval Treaties, had a huge impact on how World War II played out is to put it mildly. I would even argue that had these restrictions not gone through that cruisers in the 1940s would have evolved into what were classified in reality as "large cruisers" or "cruiser killers" like the Alaska-class: Large fast ships with reasonably heavy armor and guns of roughly 12 inches in caliber. And I'd be willing to bet that if writers got deep enough into the lore of Mass Effect that the Treaty of Farixen would been seen having the same effect in the long run.
Well there's Mass effect reborn mod for Homeworld 2, that will have to do for now (the developers of the mod claimed some time ago they are returning to development of remastered version which should have single player campaign, but whether that's ever actually going to happen is in the stars).
I really like the reaper ships cause of how multi-purpose they are, Cause they seem to be able to be part super computer, part communications array, part construction mech (their main weapon can also be seen as a giant welder and cutting torch), part cargo ship, part carrier and part space tug. All round it doesnt seem to be purely as a weapon of mass destruction
I thought the Geth only built one of that class we saw in three. Wish we could have kept it around. I'd love to have seen how well that Volus dreadnought punched above its weight class. The thing was armed with Thanix cannons, and EDI decided to forget about the Normandy's. I would definitely like to see more Mass Effect.
I love the alliance dreadnoughts it was cool seeing them at the near end scene in Mass Effect 3 escorting The Crucible I hope BioWare considers making dreadnaughts to sell as a collectible one day in real?
I'm always amazed at how people remember details like this. I forget damn near everything I read, watch or play. I have played through the entire Mass Effect series three times and I knew about....oh, none of this.
Id love to see more Mass Effect videos. Its just a shame the series itself never fully expanded into these details despite the massive potential and their already detail-focused emphasis. I mean, an entire trilogy and we still don't even know what Salarian ships look like? Im hopeful one day we'll see more detail.
Also would be worth mentioning (which I am sure it has been buried in comments), that the Systems Alliance has built dreadnaught scale ships, but as Carriers are not bound by the the Treat of Firaxen. Goes with how the SA fights wars differently than the other council Races.
I love the dynamics of Mass Effect. I would love a video on general tactics, and especially Turian tactics and strategy, as they’re the most militarized.
If there is any successful Battleship in mass effect it's Sovereign. Battleship role is to not only delivered maximum firepower but also absorb maximum damage inficted on it. Also it carry Occuli drones for destroying enemy fighters. It's a ship every battleship dream of
For some reason, watching your videos is always relaxing, informative and enjoyable. I’m not sure if it’s the content, incredible music or that dog at the end (or all of them), but whatever it is you are doing, keep doing it! It’s great!
I love the Mass Effect content! Can you do a breakdown on the ship classes and how effective you consider ME's space combat system compared to some other properties?
I will add that the Aliance, in order to bypass threaty requirements, was the first species of this cycle to start building Carrier Vessels, and other species (Turians mostly) did the same later on - a likely reference to USN' and RN' actions following the Washington Naval Treaty. I can often see people in the comments sying that they would have likely build more drednaughts. Not quite, if you look at the numbers: US Navy has 10 Nimitz class CVNs with displacements of 101-105 thousand tonnes and lenght of 333m. The single completed Gerald. R. Ford class is quite similar, with a slightly smaller tonnage (110 k t) and higher lenght (337m) US has a population of 325 mln while Turianr Hierarchy has a population of 9,4 bln. Thus, if we were to keep the same capitol ship tonnage per citizen ratio, it would be logical for Turrians to have 29 times larger capitol ship tonnage then the US. Hovewer, it is important too remember that if warhip X is twice as long as warhip Y, warhip X can be expected to have a mass which is 8 times larger. Thus, Turians could exploit 318 (1/3) km long ships, or for the same price, 12 killometer long ships if they were as militariesed as the most militarised country on Earth in terms of Navy. They have 37. Still seems too low?
Turians might compensate by having an ass-load of super heavy cruisers. Kinda like the pocket battleships of Nazi Germany, or the battlecruiser concept.
The numbers for population and ship counts in mass effect are undervalued by at least an order of magnitude. Given what we know about the ME universe, the populations of the big 3 citadel species should be in the single digit trillions, with at least hundreds of thousands of warships each. However, that would make humans in the 22nd century so weak as to break the entire story since they would have been squashed like a bug in 2148. The numbers were probably so heavily tuned down to make it more relatable to human growth.
CVs were not built to by pass the Washington Naval Treaty- they were limited just like BBs. Germany built "pocket battleships" because they were not signatories of the WNT. They were limited to not building proper warships by the the Versailles treaty- which they tore up.
>still seems low Against whom exactly would they need to build up the fleet? They carry the bighest stick in town and 2 second biggest are as close of an allies as it is possible.
Love Mass Effect. Love the weapons, the lore, everything about it. I would like to see a compression of Biotic powers vs Force powers. Just a nice side by side breakdown.
The tyranids (WH40K) vs unified star wars galaxy (first canon and then legends) chaos (WH40K) vs unified star wars galaxy (first Canon and then legends)
The tyranids ok, but in what scale? A single Hive fleet would easily match the entire Vong invasion, what would happen with the entire swarm would be like stomping puppies with a bulldozer... As for Chaos, dear Arch gave us the answer in the Black crusades rants, the force is outmatched beyond belief, even belief is outmatched beyond itself. Also by legends you mean the stuff they had, or the ridiculous numbers from a random book for childrens that had been debunked times and times again?
@@scorpixel1866 initially only one hive fleet (and as an attempt to make it fair we put the weakest known hive fleet) against canon and then legends then the entire species against both canon and legends
Well you forgot to mention that the Systems Alliance semi-bypassed the dreadnought limit by making fighter Carriers, dreadnought sized ships used specifically for carrying fighter vessels (which can be armed with the powerful Thanix Cannon, making Carriers very useful)
I found this channel a long time ago, then didn’t see it for a while. Ran into his NHL channel and have been watching for years. Now I’m back at the nerd channel. Love it
I would enjoy a video breakdown on a broader view of Mass Effect space combat. Not any particular battle or ship type, but the mechanics of space combat in universe. Heat management, weapon and ship types, tactics, notable developments by species, things like that.
You forget to mention System Alliance was very aggressive toward treaty of farixen, we were building non-dreadnaught ships that are dreadnoughts in terms of capability to circumvent the treaty. You should go into more detail about humans in mass effect lore. There are especially very interesting details in the books.
To anyone who says that the ME universe is the weakest of all big fantasy universes, like Star wars or Warhammer. I mean technically you re right, however you have to concider that the ME Universe is also probably the youngest (at least technology-wise for the current cycle). It doesnt play too far away from our time, while SW had very little development in thousands of years (at least in legends), and Warhammer (sci-fi) literally takes place in the 40th millennium. (Also great developments of technology are basically impossible, because of the very nature of the reapers.) Also Mass effect tries to be a bit more grounded in science than SW and Warhammer, which both totally dont care for realism (but still are great). Lastly, the Mass effect galaxy is basically much more demilitarized and democratic (for the most part, batarians are too weak to actually achieve something in military-affairs), which would prevent most from building great wunderwaffen or giant armardas. However if there are/were stats about a prothean ship design or something like that, I would love to see a match against other ships from different universes. Or even a match of the prothean empire against other empires.
Umm lmao, the most powerful ship in ME is a normal reaper ship right, well here is the thing on that, it's the only one we have hard stats on and it's main gun only does 450 kilotons a shot lmfao, while a standard UNSC pre-war frigate (the ones they had hundreds of in fleets) did 64 kilotons a shot, now it sais that even with the 120 kiloton shots no *dreadnought* ever survived a hit lmao, that means 2 of the smallest and weakest ships in Halo can beat the most powerful ships in ME other than reapers. (and that the UNSC alone could beat the reapers easily.)
In general I dont think that comparing two completely different universes is that useful to determine the "streingth" of a universe (it can be really fun tho). Having a "weaker" universe doesnt really change anything exept some numbers on a calculator. Additionaly, most universes dont even operate on the same laws of physics. I mean in some universes there literally exists some kind of magic (the force, the warp, biotics in some way etc.), which is even less comparable than the "kinda physics" of the francises. To wrap up: it doesnt impact the storys, gameplay or the other things we love most about our francises.
Well, yah but if Mass Effect were to fight another sci-fi universe they would almost always use because they could never ever adapt to have powerful enough weapons. (like seriously can you just imagine being in one of their ships and seeing a fleet of ships where the smallest ships can instantly destroy your largest? can you imagine how piss-poor the moral would be?)
@@thyreradim7885 That they could never even adapt is a quite extreme statement that is again completely hypothetical and one I dont think is true. I mean the gap between ME and post war halo UNSC isnt that great. Its definitly not as big as the gap between UNSC and Covenant forces. Actually, they both seem quite similar. I mean adapting from higher technologies is basically what every civilisation in Mass effect has allways done. And again with those numbers it can never be clear, since both universes have different laws of physics and factors that are more than just one number beeing higher than another like for example if I bring biotics into a fight on the ground. And as previously stated, Mass effect didn't even have as much time as the halo universe to develop technology-wise.
I see what you’re saying and agree to it, but the French tank was actually on par with (or superior to) early war German designs in a lot of respects. The real advantage early panzers had over the French vehicles was that most vehicles were equipped with a better radio, allowing for more communication and less reliance on the lead vehicle in an armored column.
It might have been worth mentioning that the Systems Alliance skirted around the dreadnought limit with carriers, which apparently were never used by any of the Council races. If I remember correctly, carriers were just as large as dreadnoughts and carried a lot of fighters and gunships. Why the turians didn't ever conceive of a similar vessel prior to humanity's arrival on the galactic stage is mind-boggling.
More Mass Effect! I am a big fan of Star Wars, Star Trek, Star Gate. While I do Love the [now aging] SWOTOR/KOTOR, the OT Mass Effect Trilogy is my favorite video-game series of all time. I know all there is to know, or so I think, about the ME Universe. Regardless, please do more videos on the Mass Effect Universe.
Yea would like to see more Mass Effect, love the series. He’ll watching this made me feel like replaying the trilogy again (yes, even the ending of 3 which is still bad after 6 1/2 years but the rest of the game was great). Also, didn’t know the Volus had a dreadnaught.
I didn't know anything about the Mass Effect universe before watching this video. I find it interesting how they pulled from the real world Five Power Treaty (AKA Washington Naval Treaty) of 1922. Among numerous other things, it limited capital ship (battleship and battle cruiser) construction to a ratio of 5:5:3:1.75:1.75 for the US, Great Britain, Japan, France, and Italy respectively.
Kinda wish there had been a bit more discussiosn on the topic, like how dreadnoughts are so large they can't land on a planet to discharge their drive core and must do so in the magnetic field of a planet from orbit. Or how the decks are arranged perpendicular to the thrust axis, such that the "top" decks are at the front of the ship, and the "bottom" ones are at the rear.
Good one Eckhart it still doesn't change the fact that mass effect ships are just about at the bottom of ship vs to e.g. star wars, Warhammer, halo and stargate ships
I wish there was more lore on the ships in Mass Effect. We don't really see much outside of Asari, Turian, Quarian, Geth, Reaper, and Human...and even then we only see a small fraction of ship designs...and even then, most are similar. I don't ever recall seeing a single Selarian ship, Bratarian, the Volus bombing fleet, etc.
it would be great if you explained how many of each would be required to destroy one reaper cruiser, like how 4 human dreadnaughts can destroy one, 1 dreadnaught stands no chance, 2 would weaken its barriers, and 3 would disable it without obliterating it.
@@puppetmasterey the Borg use it as default tech. Not sure if any other major factions use it. As for the other factions some have multiple versions, really would need to specify which, for example Stargate has both Lantean and Go'aould, and the later has several types too, some always on, some linked to gauntlets and some even that only activate for higher momentum objects. Would be interesting thoough comparing some to others, especially the massively flawed dune shields that explode with nuclear force when shot with beam weapons.
@@puppetmasterey I did. Was just look g for a fraction in trek that does. One off shields aren't so much of a faction thing really, need to be at least semi-common.
@@cgi2002 unless I'm going insane. I this Starfleet had personal shields. I can't tell you from where, but I think I heard either TOS or TNG. But I could be very wrong.
The Systems Alliance was also criticized by the other races for having many more Dreadnought size ships then the treaty aloud them to have by simply not putting a main gun on them. They were instead used as Super Carriers with more secondary cannons then a Dreadnought and a large support fleet and massive amount of fighters on board for the universe. It aloud the Alliance to operate many more vessels with Dreadnought capabilities then the treaty aloud without actually breaking the treaty.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
"Mass Effect is interesting"
Yes. Yes it is.
I should go
Nah it died when EA took over.
Was. Yes it was.
Andromeda was ok, I played it and liked it. Not a bad game on it'd own. With that said, it does not even come close to the trilogy(with ALL dlc), it was by far my favorite game in the last 10 years. I must of played through all 3 at least 15 times to see how the story changed with different decisions and also to get that "perfect" play through you wanted for the next game. If they do make another one.... I'd love to see a prequel of the First Contact Turian War. Probly won't happen since Andromeda was a huge let down and EA probly doesn't care cause they tons of money off half assed games and DLC.
@@@greggarland2423 ...do we look like we care...
Throughout the ENTIRE series we see the Asari vessel do nothing more than float around.
We never see the gigantic weapon system fire! Even during the most climactic space battle when we need it most!
They're too busy pleasuring themselves to actually fight.
Slaaneshi whores...
If you actually look at it's shape it's design really does limit it's max firepower as in the longest part of the ship rather than a mass effect kinetic gun, there is a hole.
Unless the hole IS the main weapon and they kinda drop projectiles into it and accelerate them out, which would let them hurl around some pretty big projectiles, kinda like the Mass Drivers the Centauri used in B5 for the bombing of Narn
Wow. I have never noticed that piece of information before. I’m curious as to why.
At least we got a great ending...oh wait!
I'd love to see more Mass Effect in the future!
To be honest, it is surprising they never tried to put out some squad tactics shooters or strategy games, as also ship to ship combat games. That universe is so rich and they instead wasted it all to try to somewhat reboot the franchise. Yes, I am still pissed.
Yessssss
Mass Effect is dead. Thanks EA.
Its N7 not T7 . _.
I would love to see those dreadnoughts actually firing and not have it look like just a missle...
I really wish we had detailed ship lore for Mass Effect, because I seriously love the space combat in this franchise. Like, in Mass Effect, I see potential for the cool parts of Star Wars space combat, without the stupid parts of Star Wars space combat.
Indeed, I am all for an RTS Mass Effect Game with space and ground combat. But Specialises in Space. But I agree with you 110%
Actually there is quite a bit of stuff on space combat in the various codexes
@@mella4376 I've read the codex entries, I'm just talking about detailed design specifications for specific ships.
The Great Destroyer I see, can't say I disagree
@@uncleurdnot I love your name.
Correction: if the Ascension is destroyed in ME1 it is replaced by an Asari cruiser in ME3's battle for earth.
The best thing about Mass Effect to me is the scale of things, especialy in ME3. In one of first missions you do you talk to a turism general who says somthing like: the first Day of the reaper invasion 2 million died on Palavin, 3 million the next day.
And this was only one of thousends of planets in the galaxy. It puts the war in perspective.
In many outher sci-fi universes they call it a catastrofy if 100 die.
I like that scale is cool but realistic (comparing to other popular universes).
@Half life 3 Keep in mind that those were the casualties of a single planet with a population of 6 billion. It would be considered devastating if 5 million people died in a war in only 2 days and our planet has 7 billion people on it. That's happening across Turian space, not just that one planet, and this is after one of their largest colonies was wiped out by the reapers to send a message. Heck at that rate of loss, Palavan would be wiped out in less than a year.
The UNSC is losing planets and billions by the day in Halo, so they don't really consider that a catastrophe. They consider that lucky that they haven't lost as many as they could have.
Well, there is Star Wars, Dune and 40k.
@@starhammer5247 Well the Reaper's genocide follows a different pattern than the Covenant, so that's kinda comparing apples to oranges. They actually want the population alive for harvesting and the world still habitable for the next cycle.
Would love to see more on Mass Effect, the Normandy, both SR-1 and SR-2 deserve a video themselves!
totally agree
It's a shame the game never showed how the Alliance sort of danced around the naval treaty limiting their dreadnoughts by building like sized vessels and using them as carriers. IIRC, the Codex alludes that the Alliance is the only race to utilize such a ship type. It would've been neat to see such a ship in action in some way as Mass Effect naval doctrine seems akin to pre-WWII battleship reliance.
Carriers aren't quite as useful in ME as they are in our own world for two reasons.
GARDIAN point defense lasers. Those things have one-hundred percent accuracy at the start of a battle, meaning any fighter attack is going to suffer heavy casualties before they get close enough to launch torpedoes.
The other reason is that your strike craft's heat emissions could be traced back to the carrier, and with FTL drives, it doesn't matter how far away the carrier is or what it's hiding behind. You can just jump to their position and destroy them at close range.
Pity when it comes to the Mass Effect universe (or arguably any other Sci-Fi content), there's a great deal of good lore that we never actually see implemented in-game.
Wich makes the fact that the third game sets fire to the setting all the worse. I really wished there'd be an eventual game dedicated to the inevitable war between the Batarians and the Citadel.
As much as I appreciate how grounded Mass Effect is, you'd think they'd build another dozen dreadnoughts per species with all those asteroid belts...
Not really. If you compare ME warship tonnage per a citizen to our own world you would get a similar number. Also, what echarts ladder did not stated was that in order to circumvent threaty requirements, humans were the first to build carrier vessels (yes this is the reference to US Navy's response to Washington Naval Treaty), and other species did the same later on
Even if they all DID. It wouldn't have much mattered when the Reapers came. Since its like a 4 vs 1 ratio to effectively best a Reaper dreadnaught with Council counterparts. An keep in mind thats while the rest of the Council fleets engaged with the rest of the Reaper fleet which is almost as much trouble as the Reaper Capitals.
@Robert Agu
Yep, though reaper DDs are rerely a match for a modern cruiser with a frigate wolfpack support.
That's not quite true. The Washington naval treaty in fact did limit aircraft carrier construction as well as battleship construction. In fact carrier tonnage was much more limited than battleship tonnage under WNT restrictions. CV's where not created to circumvent the treaty, and they weren't first made by the USN either. In fact it was the British that completed the first true aircraft carrier
@@robertagu5533 true, reapers outgun and outclass council ships by a fairly large margin but worse still is they effectively outnumber them by potentially 100-1 (they are just spread out). I love how the mass effect universe straight up ignores it's 1st rule of space combat in 3, "Never fire directly at a garden world" as any misses hit the planet with insane force, and they missed alot, earth would be a wasteland from the misses alone.
Mass effect council ruled space combat always is in favour of the defender (unless attacker just wants you all dead). Just keep the planet behind you and they aren't allowed to fire.
Mass effect would be a cool universe to explore in more detail.
It's probably worth mentioning that the systems alliance circumvented the treaty limiting dreadnaughts by building similarly sized and equally, if not more, heavily armed fleet carriers. Other spieces in the council tended to use mobile air bases like you see on palavens moon in ME3. It's the only reason the turians found the systems alliance a military rivial even before humanity joined the council. That and the fact the systems alliance doesn't use attrition based warfare like the turians and krogan do.
We were not a military rival. We destroyed two small patrol fleets using overwhelming numbers and some tricks they hadn't seen before. We never faced a proper Turian battle fleet.
At the start of the First Contact War, we had two hundred ships split into two fleets. The Turians had over two thousand, separated into at least twenty eight fleets. The largest human colony has a population of ten million. The largest Turian colony we find has a population of over a billion.
If the Turians wanted to, they could have steamrolled us. Their doctrine of attrition and total war would have bled us dry long before we beat them.
The enemy is being reinforced with a dreadnaught
Speaking just for me, I find just about every video you do worthwhile! Keep up the good fight, and the force be with you. Semper Fidelis!
I really feel like they took inspiration from stuff like the Washington and London naval treaties for the Dreadnought numbers, makes it even funnier when the Systems Alliance just built shit loads of carriers
God this is such an interesting channel.
I really wish they'd gone more into depth about Mass Effect's warships and each species' designs, etc. So many ship designs, but we never get to do into any depth about them. Armaments, defensive systems, shield capacity, fuel, range, etc. I'd love to see more of these videos from you in the future! I love how you break stuff down. Makes it so much more interesting than it already is!
Good video mass effect is definitely one of my favorite science fiction series I do hope you do more videos about the universe because mass effect has a lot of lore and overall it is an amazing universe
What bothers me about mass effect 3 is the use of the treaty of farixen with the quarians because, like the Batarians and Geth, these not being part of the council do not have to comply with that treaty
There was something that always bothered me after Mass Effect 2, during the suicide mission through the Omega 4 Relay, the Normandy uses a pair of Thanix cannons (if the upgrade is researched) to destroy the Collector cruiser in 2 shots, but out of no-where, these weapons don’t seem to make an appearance ever again, considering that Thanix cannons were built for many fleets including on Dreadnoughts and were even mounted on the Quarian Liveships, you’d think they would be still used or seen in someway considering the damage they dish out, it be a safe bet that 5 Dreadnaught based Thanix cannons firing at one Sovereign class Reaper would probably cripple or destroy it.
Yes this is one of the largest mistakes in ME 3 development, ignoring the fact that most ships were retrofitted with Thanix.
ME 3 is a cluster fuck. Remember it was rushed and had lots of stupid shit added. And a botched ending. ME1 was best in terms of Lore and logic
Good memory. I wish I could remember things like this.....
If I remember correctly, the Thanix was an execellent weapon, but was only practical to the Milky Way forces in smaller versions. I gun big enough for a Dreadnought did not work. If you look at the final battle, there are many Thanix canons firing (Light blue streams), but mainly from the fighters/frigates. They also changed the look of it from ME2 to ME3, in the latter the animation became more of a light blue stream (comparing to the Reapers red stream) rather than the more noticeable (And cooler!) animation in ME2.
Nope, Dreadnoughts have no issue using Thanix cannons, and retrofitting for this weapon had already started before the Reaper Invasion. The Volus even built a dreadnought that solely used Thanix cannons, which you can acquire in ME3.
Aw the nostalgia just hit me so hard with the galaxy map music.
I'm all about the fast, maneuverable, and highly versatile strike craft(gunships, corvettes, light cruisers, etc.). That being said, I can understand the importance of dreadnoughts within a scifi franchise. It also helps that with the element zero core, ships can be highly maneuverable for their size.
Not to mention GARDIAN point defense laser systems make any fighter attack a blood bath
Bellator Class SSD vs. Resurgent Class SD
Nebula Class SD vs. Pellaeon Class SD (or any comparable SD)
Resurgent Class SD vs MC85 Cruiser (Raddus)
18th Attempt
The Resurgent would demolish the Raddus, but mostly because the New Republic desecrated the ship by severely limiting the weaponry on board. Now a MC85 at full armament and potential that would be a nice matchup
Great breakdown and I would love to see more Mass Effect content in the future.
Not sure if it's been posted in the comments already, but I recall the alliance bybassing the dreadnought limit by building a load of supercarriers.
One thing I really like about Mass effect's approach to classifying ships is the fact that the devs took the time to come up with the Treaty of Farixen, which is also more than likely the ENTIRE lore reason why the Citadel races all design their ships along similar guidelines: In order to regulate the ships that people are building, you first have to define and classify them.
A perfect example of this is the real life London Naval Treaty which was created after the First World War. Before then nations basically just built and classified ships however they felt was best, but the treaty laid out strict guidelines for how ships should be classified. It's chiefly known for redefining the split between light and heavy cruisers. Before the treaty a light cruiser was just a ship large enough to be called a cruiser that had relatively light armor, while a heavy cruiser was, well, heavier. The treaty changed that to the following: Light cruisers were to be considered ships larger that destroyers but of no more than 10,000 tons in displacement with a main battery caliber of no more than 6.1 inches; while heavy cruisers had the same tonnage restrictions but a caliber of no less than 6.1 inches, and no more than 8 inches.
To say that this treaty and its successors, the two Washington Naval Treaties, had a huge impact on how World War II played out is to put it mildly. I would even argue that had these restrictions not gone through that cruisers in the 1940s would have evolved into what were classified in reality as "large cruisers" or "cruiser killers" like the Alaska-class: Large fast ships with reasonably heavy armor and guns of roughly 12 inches in caliber. And I'd be willing to bet that if writers got deep enough into the lore of Mass Effect that the Treaty of Farixen would been seen having the same effect in the long run.
Mass effect has so much to offer, id love a space rts based on the various races.
Well there's Mass effect reborn mod for Homeworld 2, that will have to do for now (the developers of the mod claimed some time ago they are returning to development of remastered version which should have single player campaign, but whether that's ever actually going to happen is in the stars).
Yes more Mass effect lore. Do lore about the Races ground forces like the Alliance N7s, Asari Commandos, the Batarian SIU, and so on.
I really like the reaper ships cause of how multi-purpose they are, Cause they seem to be able to be part super computer, part communications array, part construction mech (their main weapon can also be seen as a giant welder and cutting torch), part cargo ship, part carrier and part space tug. All round it doesnt seem to be purely as a weapon of mass destruction
Thank you eckharts for making an amazing video on mass effect. I hope you make more mass effect videos
I thought the Geth only built one of that class we saw in three. Wish we could have kept it around.
I'd love to have seen how well that Volus dreadnought punched above its weight class. The thing was armed with Thanix cannons, and EDI decided to forget about the Normandy's.
I would definitely like to see more Mass Effect.
I love the alliance dreadnoughts it was cool seeing them at the near end scene in Mass Effect 3 escorting The Crucible I hope BioWare considers making dreadnaughts to sell as a collectible one day in real?
i feel that you're the only channel that covers not just Star Wars, but other universes as well.
yes, do more from Mass Effect.
I'm always amazed at how people remember details like this. I forget damn near everything I read, watch or play. I have played through the entire Mass Effect series three times and I knew about....oh, none of this.
Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (341st try now, *_I._** WILL NEEEEVER EEEVER GIVE UP!!!)*
Are you going to throw a party on your one year anniversary? because that's coming up soon.
Dude I'm pretty sure replicators win short of force physically manifesting itself to fight.
Oh my god dude--- Talk about determination.
@@pollall2793 I don't know why he's this point. This fight is pretty much one sided from the get go unless what I know about replicators is wrong
You definitely have enough people who’s love to watch your videos on Mass Effect. Definitely worth your time to make videos about it! 👍🏻
Good spooky video idea for October.
Could the UNSC Infinity survive after picking up a Necromorph Marker?
Yes please
Holy shit, imagine a necromorph brute made of Spartans.
Id love to see more Mass Effect videos. Its just a shame the series itself never fully expanded into these details despite the massive potential and their already detail-focused emphasis. I mean, an entire trilogy and we still don't even know what Salarian ships look like? Im hopeful one day we'll see more detail.
Also would be worth mentioning (which I am sure it has been buried in comments), that the Systems Alliance has built dreadnaught scale ships, but as Carriers are not bound by the the Treat of Firaxen. Goes with how the SA fights wars differently than the other council Races.
All ships acounted for and ready !
I love the dynamics of Mass Effect. I would love a video on general tactics, and especially Turian tactics and strategy, as they’re the most militarized.
If there is any successful Battleship in mass effect it's Sovereign.
Battleship role is to not only delivered maximum firepower but also absorb maximum damage inficted on it.
Also it carry Occuli drones for destroying enemy fighters.
It's a ship every battleship dream of
For some reason, watching your videos is always relaxing, informative and enjoyable. I’m not sure if it’s the content, incredible music or that dog at the end (or all of them), but whatever it is you are doing, keep doing it! It’s great!
This channel is basically just lore nerd ASMR and I love it
OMG the background music in the video hits me in the feels, GETTING HIGH ON NOSTALGIA
I love the Mass Effect content! Can you do a breakdown on the ship classes and how effective you consider ME's space combat system compared to some other properties?
Yeah, keep doing Mass Effect content.
The depth of the Milky Way lore... I hope Bioware can work around the endings and take us back there.
Macross Frontier era Colony defence fleet plus SMS strike force vs imperial coresant defence fleet plus Super Star Destroyer.
i just finished ME3 and would LOVE to hear some more Mass Effect stuff, the ships therein intrigue me a lot, keep up the good work!
I will add that the Aliance, in order to bypass threaty requirements, was the first species of this cycle to start building Carrier Vessels, and other species (Turians mostly) did the same later on - a likely reference to USN' and RN' actions following the Washington Naval Treaty.
I can often see people in the comments sying that they would have likely build more drednaughts. Not quite, if you look at the numbers:
US Navy has 10 Nimitz class CVNs with displacements of 101-105 thousand tonnes and lenght of 333m. The single completed Gerald. R. Ford class is quite similar, with a slightly smaller tonnage (110 k t) and higher lenght (337m)
US has a population of 325 mln while Turianr Hierarchy has a population of 9,4 bln. Thus, if we were to keep the same capitol ship tonnage per citizen ratio, it would be logical for Turrians to have 29 times larger capitol ship tonnage then the US.
Hovewer, it is important too remember that if warhip X is twice as long as warhip Y, warhip X can be expected to have a mass which is 8 times larger. Thus, Turians could exploit 318 (1/3) km long ships, or for the same price, 12 killometer long ships if they were as militariesed as the most militarised country on Earth in terms of Navy.
They have 37. Still seems too low?
Square cube law for the win.
Turians might compensate by having an ass-load of super heavy cruisers. Kinda like the pocket battleships of Nazi Germany, or the battlecruiser concept.
The numbers for population and ship counts in mass effect are undervalued by at least an order of magnitude. Given what we know about the ME universe, the populations of the big 3 citadel species should be in the single digit trillions, with at least hundreds of thousands of warships each. However, that would make humans in the 22nd century so weak as to break the entire story since they would have been squashed like a bug in 2148. The numbers were probably so heavily tuned down to make it more relatable to human growth.
CVs were not built to by pass the Washington Naval Treaty- they were limited just like BBs. Germany built "pocket battleships" because they were not signatories of the WNT. They were limited to not building proper warships by the the Versailles treaty- which they tore up.
>still seems low
Against whom exactly would they need to build up the fleet? They carry the bighest stick in town and 2 second biggest are as close of an allies as it is possible.
Yes more Mass Effect please. I have always like, going by the codex entries, ME tries to keep it’s space combat possible.
mass effect...
Y O S
YASS!
Got to say at 0:05 with Asari Dreadnaught coning into view, the title looks pretty Awesome
Would love more mass effect stuff. Despite its flaws definitely my favorite video game trilogy.
Love Mass Effect. Love the weapons, the lore, everything about it. I would like to see a compression of Biotic powers vs Force powers. Just a nice side by side breakdown.
The tyranids (WH40K) vs unified star wars galaxy (first canon and then legends)
chaos (WH40K) vs unified star wars galaxy (first Canon and then legends)
Yes! Definitely the chaos one!
The tyranids ok, but in what scale? A single Hive fleet would easily match the entire Vong invasion, what would happen with the entire swarm would be like stomping puppies with a bulldozer...
As for Chaos, dear Arch gave us the answer in the Black crusades rants, the force is outmatched beyond belief, even belief is outmatched beyond itself.
Also by legends you mean the stuff they had, or the ridiculous numbers from a random book for childrens that had been debunked times and times again?
@@scorpixel1866 EVERYTHING that they have
@@scorpixel1866 initially only one hive fleet (and as an attempt to make it fair we put the weakest known hive fleet) against canon and then legends then the entire species against both canon and legends
Chaos has too many tools to defeat its enemy.
The Ascension wasn't replaced by a similar vessel in my playthrough.
Well you forgot to mention that the Systems Alliance semi-bypassed the dreadnought limit by making fighter Carriers, dreadnought sized ships used specifically for carrying fighter vessels (which can be armed with the powerful Thanix Cannon, making Carriers very useful)
Alliance:Big brain time!
That outro with the corgi is amazing
I found this channel a long time ago, then didn’t see it for a while. Ran into his NHL channel and have been watching for years. Now I’m back at the nerd channel. Love it
That End though 😂
Oooooh! Eckharts Mass Effect video! This is gonna be great! More! More!
I never knew this video existed. Finally some godd mass effect content
Man I loved reading the codex entries in ME 1. So much depth.
I would enjoy a video breakdown on a broader view of Mass Effect space combat. Not any particular battle or ship type, but the mechanics of space combat in universe. Heat management, weapon and ship types, tactics, notable developments by species, things like that.
You forget to mention System Alliance was very aggressive toward treaty of farixen, we were building non-dreadnaught ships that are dreadnoughts in terms of capability to circumvent the treaty.
You should go into more detail about humans in mass effect lore. There are especially very interesting details in the books.
This was neat! The choice of music really fits well.
hey man I absolutely love learning more about mass effect and would very much enjoy seeing more about it!!!
To anyone who says that the ME universe is the weakest of all big fantasy universes, like Star wars or Warhammer.
I mean technically you re right, however you have to concider that the ME Universe is also probably the youngest (at least technology-wise for the current cycle). It doesnt play too far away from our time, while SW had very little development in thousands of years (at least in legends), and Warhammer (sci-fi) literally takes place in the 40th millennium.
(Also great developments of technology are basically impossible, because of the very nature of the reapers.)
Also Mass effect tries to be a bit more grounded in science than SW and Warhammer, which both totally dont care for realism (but still are great).
Lastly, the Mass effect galaxy is basically much more demilitarized and democratic (for the most part, batarians are too weak to actually achieve something in military-affairs), which would prevent most from building great wunderwaffen or giant armardas.
However if there are/were stats about a prothean ship design or something like that, I would love to see a match against other ships from different universes. Or even a match of the prothean empire against other empires.
Umm lmao, the most powerful ship in ME is a normal reaper ship right, well here is the thing on that, it's the only one we have hard stats on and it's main gun only does 450 kilotons a shot lmfao, while a standard UNSC pre-war frigate (the ones they had hundreds of in fleets) did 64 kilotons a shot, now it sais that even with the 120 kiloton shots no *dreadnought* ever survived a hit lmao, that means 2 of the smallest and weakest ships in Halo can beat the most powerful ships in ME other than reapers. (and that the UNSC alone could beat the reapers easily.)
In general I dont think that comparing two completely different universes is that useful to determine the "streingth" of a universe (it can be really fun tho).
Having a "weaker" universe doesnt really change anything exept some numbers on a calculator.
Additionaly, most universes dont even operate on the same laws of physics. I mean in some universes there literally exists some kind of magic (the force, the warp, biotics in some way etc.), which is even less comparable than the "kinda physics" of the francises.
To wrap up: it doesnt impact the storys, gameplay or the other things we love most about our francises.
Well, yah but if Mass Effect were to fight another sci-fi universe they would almost always use because they could never ever adapt to have powerful enough weapons. (like seriously can you just imagine being in one of their ships and seeing a fleet of ships where the smallest ships can instantly destroy your largest? can you imagine how piss-poor the moral would be?)
@@thyreradim7885
That they could never even adapt is a quite extreme statement that is again completely hypothetical and one I dont think is true. I mean the gap between ME and post war halo UNSC isnt that great. Its definitly not as big as the gap between UNSC and Covenant forces. Actually, they both seem quite similar. I mean adapting from higher technologies is basically what every civilisation in Mass effect has allways done.
And again with those numbers it can never be clear, since both universes have different laws of physics and factors that are more than just one number beeing higher than another like for example if I bring biotics into a fight on the ground.
And as previously stated, Mass effect didn't even have as much time as the halo universe to develop technology-wise.
I see what you’re saying and agree to it, but the French tank was actually on par with (or superior to) early war German designs in a lot of respects. The real advantage early panzers had over the French vehicles was that most vehicles were equipped with a better radio, allowing for more communication and less reliance on the lead vehicle in an armored column.
Thank you for doing this video !!!!
I love the Mass Effect universe and in particular the ship combat.
I would certainly appreciate more Mass Effect content.
Would love more mass effect and halo space ships and tactics
It might have been worth mentioning that the Systems Alliance skirted around the dreadnought limit with carriers, which apparently were never used by any of the Council races. If I remember correctly, carriers were just as large as dreadnoughts and carried a lot of fighters and gunships. Why the turians didn't ever conceive of a similar vessel prior to humanity's arrival on the galactic stage is mind-boggling.
More Mass Effect! I am a big fan of Star Wars, Star Trek, Star Gate. While I do Love the [now aging] SWOTOR/KOTOR, the OT Mass Effect Trilogy is my favorite video-game series of all time. I know all there is to know, or so I think, about the ME Universe. Regardless, please do more videos on the Mass Effect Universe.
I'm definitely up for more Mass Effect content on your channel!
I would love to see more mass effect in the future
Glad this popped up in my recommended! Definitely going to check out your other videos.
More Mass Effect, please. The video was very interesting.
Yea would like to see more Mass Effect, love the series. He’ll watching this made me feel like replaying the trilogy again (yes, even the ending of 3 which is still bad after 6 1/2 years but the rest of the game was great).
Also, didn’t know the Volus had a dreadnaught.
Been waiting for more Mass Effect lore
good stuff fam
I didn't know anything about the Mass Effect universe before watching this video. I find it interesting how they pulled from the real world Five Power Treaty (AKA Washington Naval Treaty) of 1922. Among numerous other things, it limited capital ship (battleship and battle cruiser) construction to a ratio of 5:5:3:1.75:1.75 for the US, Great Britain, Japan, France, and Italy respectively.
Kinda wish there had been a bit more discussiosn on the topic, like how dreadnoughts are so large they can't land on a planet to discharge their drive core and must do so in the magnetic field of a planet from orbit. Or how the decks are arranged perpendicular to the thrust axis, such that the "top" decks are at the front of the ship, and the "bottom" ones are at the rear.
Good one Eckhart it still doesn't change the fact that mass effect ships are just about at the bottom of ship vs to e.g. star wars, Warhammer, halo and stargate ships
Again another well rounded video from yourself keep it up!
The Destiny Ascension is one of a kind. An oversized variant of the Asari's Galea type dreadnought.
Doomsday from the comics vs the Flood
I wish there was more lore on the ships in Mass Effect. We don't really see much outside of Asari, Turian, Quarian, Geth, Reaper, and Human...and even then we only see a small fraction of ship designs...and even then, most are similar. I don't ever recall seeing a single Selarian ship, Bratarian, the Volus bombing fleet, etc.
Loved the Mass effect vídeo please make more lore videos about it. Congrats
it would be great if you explained how many of each would be required to destroy one reaper cruiser, like how 4 human dreadnaughts can destroy one, 1 dreadnaught stands no chance, 2 would weaken its barriers, and 3 would disable it without obliterating it.
Personal shield technology compared Dune Halo Mass Effect Star Trek Star Wars Stargate and Warhammer 40K
Star Trek doesn't generally use personal shields, in cannon anyway. But I think they mention it though.
@@puppetmasterey the Borg use it as default tech. Not sure if any other major factions use it. As for the other factions some have multiple versions, really would need to specify which, for example Stargate has both Lantean and Go'aould, and the later has several types too, some always on, some linked to gauntlets and some even that only activate for higher momentum objects. Would be interesting thoough comparing some to others, especially the massively flawed dune shields that explode with nuclear force when shot with beam weapons.
@@cgi2002 I hope you saw that I said that they, generally don't use shields.
@@puppetmasterey I did. Was just look g for a fraction in trek that does. One off shields aren't so much of a faction thing really, need to be at least semi-common.
@@cgi2002 unless I'm going insane. I this Starfleet had personal shields. I can't tell you from where, but I think I heard either TOS or TNG. But I could be very wrong.
that mass effect music gave me nostalgia from simpler times
I'd love to see you cover more mass effect stuff in the future.
The codex also mentions how the Systems Alliance circumnavigated the treaty by building space fighter carriers instead. ^^
Spacedock just took his victory lap.
Please make more Mass Effect content, I'd very much appreciate that.
I'm getting super back into Mass Effect, there's a pen and paper RPG for ME out there too based on DnD 5e, so yeah... digging this.
1:30 - Basically the Washington Naval Treaty, but in space.
I hope we can see more Mass Effect videos from you in the future
The Systems Alliance was also criticized by the other races for having many more Dreadnought size ships then the treaty aloud them to have by simply not putting a main gun on them. They were instead used as Super Carriers with more secondary cannons then a Dreadnought and a large support fleet and massive amount of fighters on board for the universe. It aloud the Alliance to operate many more vessels with Dreadnought capabilities then the treaty aloud without actually breaking the treaty.